BBC News

Flying Scotsman returns to service after collision

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-67031981

On 07/10/2023 06:36, JMB99 wrote:
> BBC News
>
> Flying Scotsman returns to service after collision
>
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-67031981
>
>
>
>

RAIB

Investigation into a collision at Aviemore station on the Strathspey
Railway, Highland, 29 September 2023.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/collision-at-aviemore-station-strathspey-railway?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=govuk-notifications-topic&utm_source=aa792802-5e8e-4341-8bab-1e94c2a6253e&utm_content=immediately

On Mon, 16 Oct 2023 15:23:58 +0100, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:

>On 07/10/2023 06:36, JMB99 wrote:
>> BBC News
>>
>> Flying Scotsman returns to service after collision
>>
>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-67031981
>>
>RAIB
>
>Investigation into a collision at Aviemore station on the Strathspey
>Railway, Highland, 29 September 2023.
>
>https://www.gov.uk/government/news/collision-at-aviemore-station-strathspey-railway?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=govuk-notifications-topic&utm_source=aa792802-5e8e-4341-8bab-1e94c2a6253e&utm_content=immediately
>
The terms of reference seem entirely appropriate to me. I would say 2
and 3 are the key points.

On Mon, 16 Oct 2023 17:11:58 +0100
Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>On Mon, 16 Oct 2023 15:23:58 +0100, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
>
>>On 07/10/2023 06:36, JMB99 wrote:
>>> BBC News
>>>
>>> Flying Scotsman returns to service after collision
>>>
>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-67031981
>>>
>>RAIB
>>
>>Investigation into a collision at Aviemore station on the Strathspey
>>Railway, Highland, 29 September 2023.
>>
>>https://www.gov.uk/government/news/collision-at-aviemore-station-strathspey-ra
>ilway?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=govuk-notifications-topic&utm_source=aa7928
>02-5e8e-4341-8bab-1e94c2a6253e&utm_content=immediately
>>
>The terms of reference seem entirely appropriate to me. I would say 2
>and 3 are the key points.

I would say its a simple case of the driver not looking where he was going.
He's the one driving the loco so he's entirely responsible for how it moves.

On 17/10/2023 09:25, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
> I would say its a simple case of the driver not looking where he was
> going. He's the one driving the loco so he's entirely responsible for
> how it moves.

When reversing?

On 17/10/2023 10:00, JMB99 wrote:
> On 17/10/2023 09:25, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>> I would say its a simple case of the driver not looking where he was
>> going. He's the one driving the loco so he's entirely responsible for
>> how it moves.
>
>
> When reversing?
>
>
He's closer to the action when reversing!

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On Tue, 17 Oct 2023 10:00:05 +0100
JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
>On 17/10/2023 09:25, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>> I would say its a simple case of the driver not looking where he was
>> going. He's the one driving the loco so he's entirely responsible for
>> how it moves.
>
>
>When reversing?
>

Oh of course, silly me, thats the responsibility of the special Reversing
Driver!

<Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 17 Oct 2023 10:00:05 +0100
> JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
>> On 17/10/2023 09:25, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>> I would say its a simple case of the driver not looking where he was
>>> going. He's the one driving the loco so he's entirely responsible for
>>> how it moves.
>>
>>
>> When reversing?
>>
>
> Oh of course, silly me, thats the responsibility of the special Reversing
> Driver!

Since reversing often requires the aid of other staff, there may be some
practical, if not legal, division of responsibility involved. That’s the
sort of thing that might need to be investigated.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

On 18/10/2023 07:07, Sam Wilson wrote:
> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, 17 Oct 2023 10:00:05 +0100
>> JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
>>> On 17/10/2023 09:25, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>>> I would say its a simple case of the driver not looking where he was
>>>> going. He's the one driving the loco so he's entirely responsible for
>>>> how it moves.
>>>
>>>
>>> When reversing?
>>>
>>
>> Oh of course, silly me, thats the responsibility of the special Reversing
>> Driver!
>
> Since reversing often requires the aid of other staff, there may be some
> practical, if not legal, division of responsibility involved. That’s the
> sort of thing that might need to be investigated.
>

He was only reversing the loco, not the whole train. On the footplate
he'd have a better and closer view of the situation reversing than
moving forward, the tender being a lot shorter than the boiler. From the
video there is no evidence of a shunter on the platform to give him hand
signals.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On 18/10/2023 07:07, Sam Wilson wrote:
>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 17 Oct 2023 10:00:05 +0100
>>> JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
>>>> On 17/10/2023 09:25, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>>>> I would say its a simple case of the driver not looking where he was
>>>>> going. He's the one driving the loco so he's entirely responsible for
>>>>> how it moves.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> When reversing?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Oh of course, silly me, thats the responsibility of the special Reversing
>>> Driver!
>>
>> Since reversing often requires the aid of other staff, there may be some
>> practical, if not legal, division of responsibility involved. That’s the
>> sort of thing that might need to be investigated.
>>
>
> He was only reversing the loco, not the whole train. On the footplate
> he'd have a better and closer view of the situation reversing than
> moving forward, the tender being a lot shorter than the boiler. From the
> video there is no evidence of a shunter on the platform to give him hand
> signals.

Shorter but with a more restrictive view, and curving away from the
driver’s side so they couldn’t see where the train was. There seems to
have been someone in the fireman’s window, but they didn’t appear to show
any alarm. In neither of the two videos I’ve seen did I see whether
there was anyone on the ballast on the driver’s side signalling to the
driver. Part of the investigation should include whether there should have
been any staff on the ground assisting.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On 17/10/2023 10:00, JMB99 wrote:
>> On 17/10/2023 09:25, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>> I would say its a simple case of the driver not looking where he was
>>> going. He's the one driving the loco so he's entirely responsible for
>>> how it moves.
>>
>>
>> When reversing?
>>
>>
> He's closer to the action when reversing!
>

But unable to reach the driving controls whilst looking out of the side of
the cab.

Which is why there will usually be a second, and often third, person
involved in shunting manoeuvres.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On 18/10/2023 07:07, Sam Wilson wrote:
>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 17 Oct 2023 10:00:05 +0100
>>> JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
>>>> On 17/10/2023 09:25, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>>>> I would say its a simple case of the driver not looking where he was
>>>>> going. He's the one driving the loco so he's entirely responsible for
>>>>> how it moves.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> When reversing?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Oh of course, silly me, thats the responsibility of the special Reversing
>>> Driver!
>>
>> Since reversing often requires the aid of other staff, there may be some
>> practical, if not legal, division of responsibility involved. That’s the
>> sort of thing that might need to be investigated.
>>
>
> He was only reversing the loco, not the whole train. On the footplate
> he'd have a better and closer view of the situation reversing than
> moving forward, the tender being a lot shorter than the boiler.
>

The loco cab has windows in the front, and the boiler is smaller than the
full profile of the train. The tender has no such windows and occupies the
full profile.

> From the
> video there is no evidence of a shunter on the platform to give him hand
> signals.

…which will surely be one of the things to be investigated.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>>
>> He was only reversing the loco, not the whole train. On the footplate
>> he'd have a better and closer view of the situation reversing than
>> moving forward, the tender being a lot shorter than the boiler. From the
>> video there is no evidence of a shunter on the platform to give him hand
>> signals.
>
> Shorter but with a more restrictive view, and curving away from the
> driver’s side so they couldn’t see where the train was. There seems to
> have been someone in the fireman’s window, but they didn’t appear to show
> any alarm. In neither of the two videos I’ve seen did I see whether
> there was anyone on the ballast on the driver’s side signalling to the
> driver. Part of the investigation should include whether there should have
> been any staff on the ground assisting.
>
> Sam
>

They could call them backup staff,…..I’ll get my coat.

GH