I noticed one disadvantage of e-Tickets (ie ones held on a phone) that I
hadn’t considered before, on an EMR trip back from StP yesterday: it takes
the ticket inspector much longer to perform a ticket check on the train.
Her reader is basically a smartphone, so she had to line up her camera with
the passenger’s QR code. Then she asked to see the railcard, which
invariably seemed also to be phone based. So then much fumbling by the
passenger to display the electronic railcard. We had the conventional paper
based tickets, not through any dislike of e-tickets but because our ticket
included a zone 1-6 day tube ticket, and a plastic railcard. Our ticket
check took about two seconds.

On 28 Oct 2023 07:35:19 -0000 (UTC) Tweed wrote:
>I noticed one disadvantage of e-Tickets (ie ones held on a phone) that I
>hadn’t considered before, on an EMR trip back from StP yesterday: it takes
>the ticket inspector much longer to perform a ticket check on the train.
>Her reader is basically a smartphone, so she had to line up her camera with
>the passenger’s QR code. Then she asked to see the railcard, which
>invariably seemed also to be phone based. So then much fumbling by the
>passenger to display the electronic railcard. We had the conventional paper
>based tickets, not through any dislike of e-tickets but because our ticket
>included a zone 1-6 day tube ticket, and a plastic railcard. Our ticket
>check took about two seconds.

Are there technical or operational reasons why the e-ticket could not
include the railcard, so that both are displayed at once?
--
(Remove numerics from email address)

On Sat, 28 Oct 2023 10:59:02 -0000 (UTC), Dave Royal wrote:

> On 28 Oct 2023 07:35:19 -0000 (UTC) Tweed wrote:
>>I noticed one disadvantage of e-Tickets (ie ones held on a phone) that I
>>hadn’t considered before, on an EMR trip back from StP yesterday: it
>>takes the ticket inspector much longer to perform a ticket check on the
>>train. Her reader is basically a smartphone, so she had to line up her
>>camera with the passenger’s QR code. Then she asked to see the railcard,
>>which invariably seemed also to be phone based. So then much fumbling by
>>the passenger to display the electronic railcard. We had the
>>conventional paper based tickets, not through any dislike of e-tickets
>>but because our ticket included a zone 1-6 day tube ticket, and a
>>plastic railcard. Our ticket check took about two seconds.
>
> Are there technical or operational reasons why the e-ticket could not
> include the railcard, so that both are displayed at once?

They work in completely different ways.

E-tickets are designed to be easily copied within a group. The "primary"
format being the PDF, with in-app and Google/Apple pay wallets as
secondary options.

Digital Railcards being issued to a named person and including their photo
are heavy locked down. They can only be shown within the railcard app,
which needs to phone home every 72 hours.

--
Mark Wane
Matrix: @mark:cool110.xyz
ActivityPub: @mark@social.cool110.xyz

On Sat, 28 Oct 2023 07:35:19 -0000 (UTC), Tweed wrote:

> I noticed one disadvantage of e-Tickets (ie ones held on a phone) that I
> hadn’t considered before, on an EMR trip back from StP yesterday: it
> takes the ticket inspector much longer to perform a ticket check on the
> train. Her reader is basically a smartphone, so she had to line up her
> camera with the passenger’s QR code. Then she asked to see the railcard,
> which invariably seemed also to be phone based. So then much fumbling by
> the passenger to display the electronic railcard. We had the
> conventional paper based tickets, not through any dislike of e-tickets
> but because our ticket included a zone 1-6 day tube ticket, and a
> plastic railcard. Our ticket check took about two seconds.

From my experience on Northern it's mostly been the other way around. They
use a dedicated barcode scanner linked to the "phone", rather than its
standard camera. That works much faster and since they're listening for
the beep they don't even need to look at the screen most of the time.

--
Mark Wane
Matrix: @mark:cool110.xyz
ActivityPub: @mark@social.cool110.xyz

Peter Johnson <peter@parksidewood.nospam> wrote:
> On Sat, 28 Oct 2023 07:35:19 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
> <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I noticed one disadvantage of e-Tickets (ie ones held on a phone) that I
>> hadn’t considered before, on an EMR trip back from StP yesterday: it takes
>> the ticket inspector much longer to perform a ticket check on the train.
>> Her reader is basically a smartphone, so she had to line up her camera with
>> the passenger’s QR code. Then she asked to see the railcard, which
>> invariably seemed also to be phone based. So then much fumbling by the
>> passenger to display the electronic railcard. We had the conventional paper
>> based tickets, not through any dislike of e-tickets but because our ticket
>> included a zone 1-6 day tube ticket, and a plastic railcard. Our ticket
>> check took about two seconds.
>
> My experience with etickets on EMR is that the check can be very
> quick, and they don't always ask to see the railcard.
>

Perhaps they’ve had a change of policy. Ticket examiners in both directions
were insisting on seeing railcards.

On 28/10/2023 18:18, Tweed wrote:
> Peter Johnson <peter@parksidewood.nospam> wrote:
>> On Sat, 28 Oct 2023 07:35:19 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
>> <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I noticed one disadvantage of e-Tickets (ie ones held on a phone) that I
>>> hadn’t considered before, on an EMR trip back from StP yesterday: it takes
>>> the ticket inspector much longer to perform a ticket check on the train.
>>> Her reader is basically a smartphone, so she had to line up her camera with
>>> the passenger’s QR code. Then she asked to see the railcard, which
>>> invariably seemed also to be phone based. So then much fumbling by the
>>> passenger to display the electronic railcard. We had the conventional paper
>>> based tickets, not through any dislike of e-tickets but because our ticket
>>> included a zone 1-6 day tube ticket, and a plastic railcard. Our ticket
>>> check took about two seconds.
>>
>> My experience with etickets on EMR is that the check can be very
>> quick, and they don't always ask to see the railcard.
>>
>
> Perhaps they’ve had a change of policy. Ticket examiners in both directions
> were insisting on seeing railcards.
>

I've noticed SWR have a spate of checking railcards and then go back to
not asking. Perhaps EMR (and other TOCs) do the same.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 28/10/2023 21:58, Graeme Wall wrote:
> On 28/10/2023 18:18, Tweed wrote:
>> Peter Johnson <peter@parksidewood.nospam> wrote:
>>> On Sat, 28 Oct 2023 07:35:19 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
>>> <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I noticed one disadvantage of e-Tickets (ie ones held on a phone)
>>>> that I
>>>> hadn’t considered before, on an EMR trip back from StP yesterday: it
>>>> takes
>>>> the ticket inspector much longer to perform a ticket check on the
>>>> train.
>>>> Her reader is basically a smartphone, so she had to line up her
>>>> camera with
>>>> the passenger’s QR code. Then she asked to see the railcard, which
>>>> invariably seemed also to be phone based. So then much fumbling by the
>>>> passenger to display the electronic railcard. We had the
>>>> conventional paper
>>>> based tickets, not through any dislike of e-tickets but because our
>>>> ticket
>>>> included a zone 1-6 day tube ticket, and a plastic railcard. Our ticket
>>>> check took about two seconds.
>>>
>>> My experience with etickets on EMR is that the check can be very
>>> quick, and they don't always ask to see the railcard.
>>
>> Perhaps they’ve had a change of policy. Ticket examiners in both
>> directions
>> were insisting on seeing railcards.
>
> I've noticed SWR have a spate of checking railcards and then go back to
> not asking. Perhaps EMR (and other TOCs) do the same.

I may be the season for new students seeing their classmates saving with
a railcard and chancing it without one.

On 28/10/2023 22:33, Certes wrote:
> On 28/10/2023 21:58, Graeme Wall wrote:
>> On 28/10/2023 18:18, Tweed wrote:
>>> Peter Johnson <peter@parksidewood.nospam> wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 28 Oct 2023 07:35:19 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
>>>> <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I noticed one disadvantage of e-Tickets (ie ones held on a phone)
>>>>> that I
>>>>> hadn’t considered before, on an EMR trip back from StP yesterday:
>>>>> it takes
>>>>> the ticket inspector much longer to perform a ticket check on the
>>>>> train.
>>>>> Her reader is basically a smartphone, so she had to line up her
>>>>> camera with
>>>>> the passenger’s QR code. Then she asked to see the railcard, which
>>>>> invariably seemed also to be phone based. So then much fumbling by the
>>>>> passenger to display the electronic railcard. We had the
>>>>> conventional paper
>>>>> based tickets, not through any dislike of e-tickets but because our
>>>>> ticket
>>>>> included a zone 1-6 day tube ticket, and a plastic railcard. Our
>>>>> ticket
>>>>> check took about two seconds.
>>>>
>>>> My experience with etickets on EMR is that the check can be very
>>>> quick, and they don't always ask to see the railcard.
>>>
>>> Perhaps they’ve had a change of policy. Ticket examiners in both
>>> directions
>>> were insisting on seeing railcards.
>>
>> I've noticed SWR have a spate of checking railcards and then go back
>> to not asking. Perhaps EMR (and other TOCs) do the same.
>
> I may be the season for new students seeing their classmates saving with
> a railcard and chancing it without one.

Quite possibly, I'd forgotten the date!
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

In message <uhidjn$2pbl6$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:35:19 on Sat, 28 Oct
2023, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:

>I noticed one disadvantage of e-Tickets (ie ones held on a phone) that I
>hadn’t considered before, on an EMR trip back from StP yesterday: it takes
>the ticket inspector much longer to perform a ticket check on the train.

>Her reader is basically a smartphone, so she had to line up her camera with
>the passenger’s QR code. Then she asked to see the railcard, which
>invariably seemed also to be phone based. So then much fumbling by the
>passenger to display the electronic railcard.

Exactly the problem I highlighted recently about the manual ticket
checking at Stansted Airport.

>We had the conventional paper based tickets, not through any dislike of
>e-tickets but because our ticket included a zone 1-6 day tube ticket,
>and a plastic railcard. Our ticket check took about two seconds.

And you have something to take home with you and clip behind a
fridge-magnet to remind you to do delay-repay.
--
Roland Perry

In message <uhiphm$2rgjk$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:59:02 on Sat, 28 Oct
2023, Dave Royal <dave@dave123royal.com> remarked:
>On 28 Oct 2023 07:35:19 -0000 (UTC) Tweed wrote:
>>I noticed one disadvantage of e-Tickets (ie ones held on a phone) that I
>>hadn’t considered before, on an EMR trip back from StP yesterday: it takes
>>the ticket inspector much longer to perform a ticket check on the train.
>>Her reader is basically a smartphone, so she had to line up her camera with
>>the passenger’s QR code. Then she asked to see the railcard, which
>>invariably seemed also to be phone based. So then much fumbling by the
>>passenger to display the electronic railcard. We had the conventional paper
>>based tickets, not through any dislike of e-tickets but because our ticket
>>included a zone 1-6 day tube ticket, and a plastic railcard. Our ticket
>>check took about two seconds.
>
>Are there technical or operational reasons why the e-ticket could not
>include the railcard, so that both are displayed at once?

Some integration is creeping in... a handful of TOCs now have
photo-ITSO-cards, which means season ticket holders only have one thing
to present to be checked.

I've now got my railcard on my [new] phone, although the first time I
tried to load it after purchasing it online, produced some variant of
the infuriating "something went wrong" messages. So my first trip was
done without it. Had a gripper wanted to see it, I'd have encouraged
them to help me re-try loading it. Although working wifi on the train
would have been a useful first step.

We should bite back: "I'm sorry but I'm experiencing a higher than usual
demand to produce travel documents; you are in a queue and your request
will be answered in 45 minutes".
--
Roland Perry