Rocksolid Light

Welcome to novaBBS (click a section below)

mail  files  register  newsreader  groups  login

Message-ID:  

Cobol programmers are down in the dumps.


aus+uk / aus.legal / judge only trial vs jury trial

SubjectAuthor
* judge only trial vs jury trialMax
+* Re: judge only trial vs jury trialRod Speed
|`* Re: judge only trial vs jury trialMax
| `* Re: judge only trial vs jury trialRod Speed
|  `* Re: judge only trial vs jury trialMax
|   `* Re: judge only trial vs jury trialRod Speed
|    `* Re: judge only trial vs jury trialMax
|     +* Re: judge only trial vs jury trialRod Speed
|     |`* Re: judge only trial vs jury trialMax
|     | `* Re: judge only trial vs jury trialRod Speed
|     |  `* Re: judge only trial vs jury trialPetzl
|     |   `* Re: judge only trial vs jury trialRod Speed
|     |    `* Re: judge only trial vs jury trialPetzl
|     |     +* Re: judge only trial vs jury trialPhil Allison
|     |     |+* Re: judge only trial vs jury trialPetzl
|     |     ||+* Re: judge only trial vs jury trialRod Speed
|     |     |||`* Re: judge only trial vs jury trialPetzl
|     |     ||| `* Re: judge only trial vs jury trialRod Speed
|     |     |||  `- Re: judge only trial vs jury trialPetzl
|     |     ||`* Re: judge only trial vs jury trialPhil Allison
|     |     || `* Re: judge only trial vs jury trialPetzl
|     |     ||  `* Re: judge only trial vs jury trialPhil Allison
|     |     ||   `- Re: judge only trial vs jury trialPetzl
|     |     |`* Re: judge only trial vs jury trialMax
|     |     | +- Re: judge only trial vs jury trialPhil Allison
|     |     | `- Re: judge only trial vs jury trialPetzl
|     |     `* Re: judge only trial vs jury trialRod Speed
|     |      `* Re: judge only trial vs jury trialPetzl
|     |       `- Re: judge only trial vs jury trialRod Speed
|     `* Re: judge only trial vs jury trialPhil Allison
|      `- Re: judge only trial vs jury trialMax
`- Re: judge only trial vs jury trialPhil Allison

Pages:12
judge only trial vs jury trial

<taqnhh$1114$1@gioia.aioe.org>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=6722&group=aus.legal#6722

  copy link   Newsgroups: aus.legal
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!y5+HOOoKIMtxjCZfPYnWgA.user.46.165.242.91.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: max...@val.morgan (Max)
Newsgroups: aus.legal
Subject: judge only trial vs jury trial
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2022 13:39:25 +1000
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID: <taqnhh$1114$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Info: gioia.aioe.org; logging-data="33828"; posting-host="y5+HOOoKIMtxjCZfPYnWgA.user.gioia.aioe.org"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@aioe.org";
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/91.11.0
X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.9.2
 by: Max - Fri, 15 Jul 2022 03:39 UTC

https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/courts-law/marathon-chris-dawson-trial-finally-comes-to-a-close/news-story/18c727bfcb27bbd7f53e7728cd7ad117

Chris Dawson will learn his fate now that the murder trial has wound up.
In the judge only trial, with no jury, the judge will deliver his
verdict in September.

Compare that to a jury trial where the jury would be expected to deliver
a verdict in a manner of hours, or a few days at the most.

How is it fair that in a judge only trial, the verdict is given months
of consideration by the judge, but in a jury trial, the verdict is given
much less time in consideration?

Re: judge only trial vs jury trial

<op.1pbw25k8byq249@pvr2.lan>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=6726&group=aus.legal#6726

  copy link   Newsgroups: aus.legal
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!news.uzoreto.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: aus.legal
Subject: Re: judge only trial vs jury trial
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2022 13:53:19 +1000
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <op.1pbw25k8byq249@pvr2.lan>
References: <taqnhh$1114$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed; delsp=yes
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Trace: individual.net 5UnlANj4CPInaROVNAQxTQewkyNKtCCmUW7CBhYmp3Up/S/WY=
Cancel-Lock: sha1:VhWHF+bQgdrkf9axGo7IVJi9Cb8=
User-Agent: Opera Mail/1.0 (Win32)
 by: Rod Speed - Fri, 15 Jul 2022 03:53 UTC

Max <max@val.morgan> wrote

> https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/courts-law/marathon-chris-dawson-trial-finally-comes-to-a-close/news-story/18c727bfcb27bbd7f53e7728cd7ad117

> Chris Dawson will learn his fate now that the murder trial has wound up.
> In the judge only trial, with no jury, the judge will deliver his
> verdict in September.

> Compare that to a jury trial where the jury would be expected to deliver
> a verdict in a manner of hours, or a few days at the most.

> How is it fair that in a judge only trial, the verdict is given months
> of consideration by the judge, but in a jury trial, the verdict is given
> much less time in consideration?

The judicial system is never about fair, stupid.

Re: judge only trial vs jury trial

<taqqr3$1sc6$1@gioia.aioe.org>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=6727&group=aus.legal#6727

  copy link   Newsgroups: aus.legal
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!y5+HOOoKIMtxjCZfPYnWgA.user.46.165.242.91.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: max...@val.morgan (Max)
Newsgroups: aus.legal
Subject: Re: judge only trial vs jury trial
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2022 14:35:46 +1000
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID: <taqqr3$1sc6$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <taqnhh$1114$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pbw25k8byq249@pvr2.lan>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Info: gioia.aioe.org; logging-data="61830"; posting-host="y5+HOOoKIMtxjCZfPYnWgA.user.gioia.aioe.org"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@aioe.org";
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/91.11.0
X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.9.2
 by: Max - Fri, 15 Jul 2022 04:35 UTC

On 15/07/2022 1:53 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
> Max <max@val.morgan> wrote
>
>> https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/courts-law/marathon-chris-dawson-trial-finally-comes-to-a-close/news-story/18c727bfcb27bbd7f53e7728cd7ad117
>>
>
>> Chris Dawson will learn his fate now that the murder trial has wound
>> up. In the judge only trial, with no jury, the judge will deliver his
>> verdict in September.
>
>> Compare that to a jury trial where the jury would be expected to
>> deliver a verdict in a manner of hours, or a few days at the most.
>
>> How is it fair that in a judge only trial, the verdict is given months
>> of consideration by the judge, but in a jury trial, the verdict is
>> given much less time in consideration?
>
> The judicial system is never about fair, stupid.

What is it about, then?

Re: judge only trial vs jury trial

<fe9ebc92-9d4a-4e14-954b-4dbf89f7835cn@googlegroups.com>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=6728&group=aus.legal#6728

  copy link   Newsgroups: aus.legal
X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:4724:b0:6af:dd84:1f33 with SMTP id bs36-20020a05620a472400b006afdd841f33mr8327701qkb.464.1657861440734;
Thu, 14 Jul 2022 22:04:00 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a37:b483:0:b0:6b5:8688:5299 with SMTP id
d125-20020a37b483000000b006b586885299mr8264886qkf.147.1657861440545; Thu, 14
Jul 2022 22:04:00 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!news.misty.com!border2.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: aus.legal
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2022 22:04:00 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <taqnhh$1114$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=27.33.11.142; posting-account=B_tJMAoAAAAmar-1r2H3x4CMhbFEou3n
NNTP-Posting-Host: 27.33.11.142
References: <taqnhh$1114$1@gioia.aioe.org>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <fe9ebc92-9d4a-4e14-954b-4dbf89f7835cn@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: judge only trial vs jury trial
From: palliso...@gmail.com (Phil Allison)
Injection-Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2022 05:04:00 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Lines: 28
 by: Phil Allison - Fri, 15 Jul 2022 05:04 UTC

Max the TRolling IDiot wrote:
=======================
>
> https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/courts-law/marathon-chris-dawson-trial-finally-comes-to-a-close/news-story/18c727bfcb27bbd7f53e7728cd7ad117
>
> Chris Dawson will learn his fate now that the murder trial has wound up.
> In the judge only trial, with no jury, the judge will deliver his
> verdict in September.
>
> Compare that to a jury trial where the jury would be expected to deliver
> a verdict in a manner of hours, or a few days at the most.
>
> How is it fair that in a judge only trial, the verdict is given months
> of consideration by the judge, but in a jury trial, the verdict is given
> much less time in consideration?

** Nothing like the same situation.

Judges often handle several serious case trial decisions at the same time.
They also have to give copious written reasoning for their decisions.
Plus the same for any penalties.

....... Phil

Re: judge only trial vs jury trial

<op.1pb2d6lhbyq249@pvr2.lan>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=6729&group=aus.legal#6729

  copy link   Newsgroups: aus.legal
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!news.uzoreto.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: aus.legal
Subject: Re: judge only trial vs jury trial
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2022 15:47:56 +1000
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <op.1pb2d6lhbyq249@pvr2.lan>
References: <taqnhh$1114$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pbw25k8byq249@pvr2.lan>
<taqqr3$1sc6$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed; delsp=yes
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Trace: individual.net 7IVrOstKUmRr9H2MvLDEiQ1fi/piR97hJaT0dUogJNtmfeM9o=
Cancel-Lock: sha1:TvZl00y1+41gWJlxej5AzXHA1t0=
User-Agent: Opera Mail/1.0 (Win32)
 by: Rod Speed - Fri, 15 Jul 2022 05:47 UTC

Max <max@val.morgan> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Max <max@val.morgan> wrote

>>> https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/courts-law/marathon-chris-dawson-trial-finally-comes-to-a-close/news-story/18c727bfcb27bbd7f53e7728cd7ad117

>>> Chris Dawson will learn his fate now that the murder trial has wound
>>> up. In the judge only trial, with no jury, the judge will deliver his
>>> verdict in September.

>>> Compare that to a jury trial where the jury would be expected to
>>> deliver a verdict in a manner of hours, or a few days at the most.

>>> How is it fair that in a judge only trial, the verdict is given months
>>> of consideration by the judge, but in a jury trial, the verdict is
>>> given much less time in consideration?

>> The judicial system is never about fair, stupid.

> What is it about, then?

Holding those accountable who have been proven to have breached the law,
stupid.

Re: judge only trial vs jury trial

<tar1h6$1u0g$1@gioia.aioe.org>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=6730&group=aus.legal#6730

  copy link   Newsgroups: aus.legal
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!y5+HOOoKIMtxjCZfPYnWgA.user.46.165.242.91.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: max...@val.morgan (Max)
Newsgroups: aus.legal
Subject: Re: judge only trial vs jury trial
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2022 16:29:57 +1000
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID: <tar1h6$1u0g$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <taqnhh$1114$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pbw25k8byq249@pvr2.lan>
<taqqr3$1sc6$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pb2d6lhbyq249@pvr2.lan>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Info: gioia.aioe.org; logging-data="63504"; posting-host="y5+HOOoKIMtxjCZfPYnWgA.user.gioia.aioe.org"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@aioe.org";
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/91.11.0
X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.9.2
 by: Max - Fri, 15 Jul 2022 06:29 UTC

On 15/07/2022 3:47 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
> Max <max@val.morgan> wrote
>> Rod Speed wrote
>>> Max <max@val.morgan> wrote
>
>>>> https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/courts-law/marathon-chris-dawson-trial-finally-comes-to-a-close/news-story/18c727bfcb27bbd7f53e7728cd7ad117
>>>>
>
>>>> Chris Dawson will learn his fate now that the murder trial has wound
>>>> up. In the judge only trial, with no jury, the judge will deliver
>>>> his verdict in September.
>
>>>> Compare that to a jury trial where the jury would be expected to
>>>> deliver a verdict in a manner of hours, or a few days at the most.
>
>>>> How is it fair that in a judge only trial, the verdict is given
>>>> months of consideration by the judge, but in a jury trial, the
>>>> verdict is given much less time in consideration?
>
>>>  The judicial system is never about fair, stupid.
>
>> What is it about, then?
>
> Holding those accountable who have been proven to have breached the law,
> stupid.

Doesn't that mean it is meant to be done fairly?

Re: judge only trial vs jury trial

<op.1pb51oujbyq249@pvr2.lan>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=6731&group=aus.legal#6731

  copy link   Newsgroups: aus.legal
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!news.uzoreto.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: aus.legal
Subject: Re: judge only trial vs jury trial
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2022 17:06:50 +1000
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <op.1pb51oujbyq249@pvr2.lan>
References: <taqnhh$1114$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pbw25k8byq249@pvr2.lan>
<taqqr3$1sc6$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pb2d6lhbyq249@pvr2.lan>
<tar1h6$1u0g$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed; delsp=yes
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Trace: individual.net VPbLGihFDzop/haN26so+QV83oXBbowXFIPfX0/bsftj5OL2s=
Cancel-Lock: sha1:9p35pW3CZftrJeDgmuYkHBYduKQ=
User-Agent: Opera Mail/1.0 (Win32)
 by: Rod Speed - Fri, 15 Jul 2022 07:06 UTC

Max <max@val.morgan> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Max <max@val.morgan> wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>> Max <max@val.morgan> wrote

>>>>> https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/courts-law/marathon-chris-dawson-trial-finally-comes-to-a-close/news-story/18c727bfcb27bbd7f53e7728cd7ad117
>>
>>>>> Chris Dawson will learn his fate now that the murder trial has wound
>>>>> up. In the judge only trial, with no jury, the judge will deliver
>>>>> his verdict in September.
>>
>>>>> Compare that to a jury trial where the jury would be expected to
>>>>> deliver a verdict in a manner of hours, or a few days at the most.
>>
>>>>> How is it fair that in a judge only trial, the verdict is given
>>>>> months of consideration by the judge, but in a jury trial, the
>>>>> verdict is given much less time in consideration?
>>
>>>> The judicial system is never about fair, stupid.
>>
>>> What is it about, then?

>> Holding those accountable who have been proven to have breached the
>> law, stupid.

> Doesn't that mean it is meant to be done fairly?

Nope. And there is nothing unfair about a judge in a judge alone
trial taking time to document how he arrived at the judgement
that he arrived at anyway. In fact that is more fair than just
anouncing his judgement and not saying how he arrived at
that and taking time to conside the evidence thoroughly.

Re: judge only trial vs jury trial

<tar92q$u3a$1@gioia.aioe.org>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=6732&group=aus.legal#6732

  copy link   Newsgroups: aus.legal
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!y5+HOOoKIMtxjCZfPYnWgA.user.46.165.242.91.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: max...@val.morgan (Max)
Newsgroups: aus.legal
Subject: Re: judge only trial vs jury trial
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2022 18:38:48 +1000
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID: <tar92q$u3a$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <taqnhh$1114$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pbw25k8byq249@pvr2.lan>
<taqqr3$1sc6$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pb2d6lhbyq249@pvr2.lan>
<tar1h6$1u0g$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pb51oujbyq249@pvr2.lan>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Info: gioia.aioe.org; logging-data="30826"; posting-host="y5+HOOoKIMtxjCZfPYnWgA.user.gioia.aioe.org"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@aioe.org";
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/91.11.0
X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.9.2
 by: Max - Fri, 15 Jul 2022 08:38 UTC

On 15/07/2022 5:06 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
> Max <max@val.morgan> wrote
>> Rod Speed wrote
>>> Max <max@val.morgan> wrote
>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>> Max <max@val.morgan> wrote
>
>>>>>> https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/courts-law/marathon-chris-dawson-trial-finally-comes-to-a-close/news-story/18c727bfcb27bbd7f53e7728cd7ad117
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> Chris Dawson will learn his fate now that the murder trial has
>>>>>> wound up. In the judge only trial, with no jury, the judge will
>>>>>> deliver his verdict in September.
>>>
>>>>>> Compare that to a jury trial where the jury would be expected to
>>>>>> deliver a verdict in a manner of hours, or a few days at the most.
>>>
>>>>>> How is it fair that in a judge only trial, the verdict is given
>>>>>> months of consideration by the judge, but in a jury trial, the
>>>>>> verdict is given much less time in consideration?
>>>
>>>>>  The judicial system is never about fair, stupid.
>>>
>>>> What is it about, then?
>
>>>  Holding those accountable who have been proven to have breached the
>>> law, stupid.
>
>> Doesn't that mean it is meant to be done fairly?
>
> Nope. And there is nothing unfair about a judge in a judge alone
> trial taking time to document how he arrived at the judgement
> that he arrived at anyway. In fact that is more fair than just
> anouncing his judgement and not saying how he arrived at
> that and taking time to conside the evidence thoroughly.

So the judge gets to consider the evidence thoroughly, as you put it,
whereas the jury doesn't, right?

Re: judge only trial vs jury trial

<op.1pcc1qeabyq249@pvr2.lan>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=6733&group=aus.legal#6733

  copy link   Newsgroups: aus.legal
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!news.uzoreto.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: aus.legal
Subject: Re: judge only trial vs jury trial
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2022 19:38:04 +1000
Lines: 41
Message-ID: <op.1pcc1qeabyq249@pvr2.lan>
References: <taqnhh$1114$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pbw25k8byq249@pvr2.lan>
<taqqr3$1sc6$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pb2d6lhbyq249@pvr2.lan>
<tar1h6$1u0g$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pb51oujbyq249@pvr2.lan>
<tar92q$u3a$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed; delsp=yes
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Trace: individual.net Z3U+U73rnY9M1HTIRJYjLQRzP/mmYWjTZAvJ8M9p2kgnM1jIA=
Cancel-Lock: sha1:e/ftWtsuPmA+Kv1YwxI6VQf7d0M=
User-Agent: Opera Mail/1.0 (Win32)
 by: Rod Speed - Fri, 15 Jul 2022 09:38 UTC

Max <max@val.morgan> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Max <max@val.morgan> wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>> Max <max@val.morgan> wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>> Max <max@val.morgan> wrote

>>>>>>> https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/courts-law/marathon-chris-dawson-trial-finally-comes-to-a-close/news-story/18c727bfcb27bbd7f53e7728cd7ad117
>>>>
>>>>>>> Chris Dawson will learn his fate now that the murder trial has
>>>>>>> wound up. In the judge only trial, with no jury, the judge will
>>>>>>> deliver his verdict in September.
>>>>
>>>>>>> Compare that to a jury trial where the jury would be expected to
>>>>>>> deliver a verdict in a manner of hours, or a few days at the most.
>>>>
>>>>>>> How is it fair that in a judge only trial, the verdict is given
>>>>>>> months of consideration by the judge, but in a jury trial, the
>>>>>>> verdict is given much less time in consideration?
>>>>
>>>>>> The judicial system is never about fair, stupid.
>>>>
>>>>> What is it about, then?
>>
>>>> Holding those accountable who have been proven to have breached the
>>>> law, stupid.

>>> Doesn't that mean it is meant to be done fairly?

>> Nope. And there is nothing unfair about a judge in a judge alone
>> trial taking time to document how he arrived at the judgement
>> that he arrived at anyway. In fact that is more fair than just
>> anouncing his judgement and not saying how he arrived at
>> that and taking time to conside the evidence thoroughly.

> So the judge gets to consider the evidence thoroughly, as you put it,
> whereas the jury doesn't, right?

Wrong, the judge gets to spell out the reasons why he decided
the accused is guilty or not, and the jury doesn't have to do that.

Re: judge only trial vs jury trial

<48b93e26-96b5-436e-a46c-52df71def7c5n@googlegroups.com>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=6734&group=aus.legal#6734

  copy link   Newsgroups: aus.legal
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6214:e4f:b0:473:202:3fca with SMTP id o15-20020a0562140e4f00b0047302023fcamr11570027qvc.39.1657888578801;
Fri, 15 Jul 2022 05:36:18 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:4899:b0:6b5:cdb6:d36d with SMTP id
ea25-20020a05620a489900b006b5cdb6d36dmr2036760qkb.223.1657888578651; Fri, 15
Jul 2022 05:36:18 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!news.misty.com!border2.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: aus.legal
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2022 05:36:18 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <tar92q$u3a$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=27.33.11.142; posting-account=B_tJMAoAAAAmar-1r2H3x4CMhbFEou3n
NNTP-Posting-Host: 27.33.11.142
References: <taqnhh$1114$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pbw25k8byq249@pvr2.lan>
<taqqr3$1sc6$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pb2d6lhbyq249@pvr2.lan>
<tar1h6$1u0g$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pb51oujbyq249@pvr2.lan> <tar92q$u3a$1@gioia.aioe.org>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <48b93e26-96b5-436e-a46c-52df71def7c5n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: judge only trial vs jury trial
From: palliso...@gmail.com (Phil Allison)
Injection-Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2022 12:36:18 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Lines: 25
 by: Phil Allison - Fri, 15 Jul 2022 12:36 UTC

Max makes Morons look just like Geniuses wrote:
=======================================
>
> So the judge gets to consider the evidence thoroughly,

** A judge is REQUIRED to do that, with WRITTEN proof in minute detail.
Cite relevant laws and legal precedents to back his rulings too.

> as you put it, whereas the jury doesn't,

** Juries can do as they fucking like with no explanation or justification at all.
Can ignore judges directions and the law *completely* if they all vote to do so.
( A practice know as " jury nullification" )

The original purpose of introducing juries was to do exactly that, in order to counter bad laws and corrupt judges.
Thereby forcing law makers to change the bad law.

NB:

One exception, a jury cannot lawfully ignore a legal direction to acquit.

...... Phil

Re: judge only trial vs jury trial

<tate4s$9ak$1@gioia.aioe.org>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=6735&group=aus.legal#6735

  copy link   Newsgroups: aus.legal
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!y5+HOOoKIMtxjCZfPYnWgA.user.46.165.242.91.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: max...@val.morgan (Max)
Newsgroups: aus.legal
Subject: Re: judge only trial vs jury trial
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2022 14:17:32 +1000
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID: <tate4s$9ak$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <taqnhh$1114$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pbw25k8byq249@pvr2.lan>
<taqqr3$1sc6$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pb2d6lhbyq249@pvr2.lan>
<tar1h6$1u0g$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pb51oujbyq249@pvr2.lan>
<tar92q$u3a$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pcc1qeabyq249@pvr2.lan>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Info: gioia.aioe.org; logging-data="9556"; posting-host="y5+HOOoKIMtxjCZfPYnWgA.user.gioia.aioe.org"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@aioe.org";
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/91.11.0
X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.9.2
 by: Max - Sat, 16 Jul 2022 04:17 UTC

On 15/07/2022 7:38 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
> Max <max@val.morgan> wrote
>> Rod Speed wrote
>>> Max <max@val.morgan> wrote
>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>> Max <max@val.morgan> wrote
>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>> Max <max@val.morgan> wrote
>
>>>>>>>> https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/courts-law/marathon-chris-dawson-trial-finally-comes-to-a-close/news-story/18c727bfcb27bbd7f53e7728cd7ad117
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Chris Dawson will learn his fate now that the murder trial has
>>>>>>>> wound up. In the judge only trial, with no jury, the judge will
>>>>>>>> deliver his verdict in September.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Compare that to a jury trial where the jury would be expected to
>>>>>>>> deliver a verdict in a manner of hours, or a few days at the most.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> How is it fair that in a judge only trial, the verdict is given
>>>>>>>> months of consideration by the judge, but in a jury trial, the
>>>>>>>> verdict is given much less time in consideration?
>>>>>
>>>>>>>  The judicial system is never about fair, stupid.
>>>>>
>>>>>> What is it about, then?
>>>
>>>>>  Holding those accountable who have been proven to have breached
>>>>> the law, stupid.
>
>>>> Doesn't that mean it is meant to be done fairly?
>
>>>  Nope. And there is nothing unfair about a judge in a judge alone
>>> trial taking time to document how he arrived at the judgement
>>> that he arrived at anyway. In fact that is more fair than just
>>> anouncing his judgement and not saying how he arrived at
>>> that and taking time to conside the evidence thoroughly.
>
>> So the judge gets to consider the evidence thoroughly, as you put it,
>> whereas the jury doesn't, right?
>
> Wrong, the judge gets to spell out the reasons why he decided
> the accused is guilty or not, and the jury doesn't have to do that.

Are you saying the judge would decide in the same amount of time that a
jury does?

Re: judge only trial vs jury trial

<op.1pds4eqobyq249@pvr2.lan>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=6736&group=aus.legal#6736

  copy link   Newsgroups: aus.legal
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!news.uzoreto.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: aus.legal
Subject: Re: judge only trial vs jury trial
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2022 14:22:52 +1000
Lines: 60
Message-ID: <op.1pds4eqobyq249@pvr2.lan>
References: <taqnhh$1114$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pbw25k8byq249@pvr2.lan>
<taqqr3$1sc6$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pb2d6lhbyq249@pvr2.lan>
<tar1h6$1u0g$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pb51oujbyq249@pvr2.lan>
<tar92q$u3a$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pcc1qeabyq249@pvr2.lan>
<tate4s$9ak$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed; delsp=yes
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Trace: individual.net EJpNxGwBXxZi25Pf7VNrLgxy4XTW4ykQdLaVCyOdzdSouTJnQ=
Cancel-Lock: sha1:cblxrvKFn1sEN7sdImU5SPjtW20=
User-Agent: Opera Mail/1.0 (Win32)
 by: Rod Speed - Sat, 16 Jul 2022 04:22 UTC

Max <max@val.morgan> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Max <max@val.morgan> wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>> Max <max@val.morgan> wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>> Max <max@val.morgan> wrote
>>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>>> Max <max@val.morgan> wrote

>>>>>>>>> https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/courts-law/marathon-chris-dawson-trial-finally-comes-to-a-close/news-story/18c727bfcb27bbd7f53e7728cd7ad117
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Chris Dawson will learn his fate now that the murder trial has
>>>>>>>>> wound up. In the judge only trial, with no jury, the judge will
>>>>>>>>> deliver his verdict in September.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Compare that to a jury trial where the jury would be expected to
>>>>>>>>> deliver a verdict in a manner of hours, or a few days at the
>>>>>>>>> most.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> How is it fair that in a judge only trial, the verdict is given
>>>>>>>>> months of consideration by the judge, but in a jury trial, the
>>>>>>>>> verdict is given much less time in consideration?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The judicial system is never about fair, stupid.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What is it about, then?
>>>>
>>>>>> Holding those accountable who have been proven to have breached
>>>>>> the law, stupid.
>>
>>>>> Doesn't that mean it is meant to be done fairly?
>>
>>>> Nope. And there is nothing unfair about a judge in a judge alone
>>>> trial taking time to document how he arrived at the judgement
>>>> that he arrived at anyway. In fact that is more fair than just
>>>> anouncing his judgement and not saying how he arrived at
>>>> that and taking time to conside the evidence thoroughly.
>>
>>> So the judge gets to consider the evidence thoroughly, as you put it,
>>> whereas the jury doesn't, right?
>> Wrong, the judge gets to spell out the reasons why he decided
>> the accused is guilty or not, and the jury doesn't have to do that.
>
> Are you saying the judge would decide in the same amount of time that a
> jury does?

Corse not given that with a jury most of the time is taken
up with convincing the minority of the jury to agree with
the verdict that the majority of the jurors want to see.

And that is all irrelevant to the fact that a judge alone trial
is MORE fair because the accused and its lawyers get to
see the reasoning behind the judge's decision and doesnt
with a jury trial.

Of course it can take longer for the judge to document the
reasoning behind the judge's decision, particularly given
that judge is unlikely to have nothing else to do after the
trial has ended.

Re: judge only trial vs jury trial

<tatfag$k6u$1@gioia.aioe.org>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=6737&group=aus.legal#6737

  copy link   Newsgroups: aus.legal
Path: i2pn2.org!rocksolid2!i2pn.org!aioe.org!y5+HOOoKIMtxjCZfPYnWgA.user.46.165.242.91.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: max...@val.morgan (Max)
Newsgroups: aus.legal
Subject: Re: judge only trial vs jury trial
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2022 14:37:33 +1000
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID: <tatfag$k6u$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <taqnhh$1114$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pbw25k8byq249@pvr2.lan>
<taqqr3$1sc6$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pb2d6lhbyq249@pvr2.lan>
<tar1h6$1u0g$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pb51oujbyq249@pvr2.lan>
<tar92q$u3a$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<48b93e26-96b5-436e-a46c-52df71def7c5n@googlegroups.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Info: gioia.aioe.org; logging-data="20702"; posting-host="y5+HOOoKIMtxjCZfPYnWgA.user.gioia.aioe.org"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@aioe.org";
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/91.11.0
X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.9.2
 by: Max - Sat, 16 Jul 2022 04:37 UTC

On 15/07/2022 10:36 pm, Phil Allison wrote:
> Max makes Morons look just like Geniuses wrote:
> =======================================
>>
>> So the judge gets to consider the evidence thoroughly,
>
> ** A judge is REQUIRED to do that, with WRITTEN proof in minute detail.
> Cite relevant laws and legal precedents to back his rulings too.
>

The reality is that a judge has several months to consider all the
evidence, and come to a decision after that time.

There is no requirement for a judge to disclose his decision (ie. guilty
or not guilty) at an earlier time, even if they might need to time to
write their detailed judgment at a later time.

>> as you put it, whereas the jury doesn't,
>
> ** Juries can do as they fucking like with no explanation or justification at all.
> Can ignore judges directions and the law *completely* if they all vote to do so.
> ( A practice know as " jury nullification" )
>
> The original purpose of introducing juries was to do exactly that, in order to counter bad laws and corrupt judges.
> Thereby forcing law makers to change the bad law.
>
> NB:
>
> One exception, a jury cannot lawfully ignore a legal direction to acquit.
>
>
> ..... Phil
>
>
>

Re: judge only trial vs jury trial

<e5j6dh5v5iuf2f41uodrsr6e797kchdna7@4ax.com>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=6749&group=aus.legal#6749

  copy link   Newsgroups: aus.legal
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!news.uzoreto.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: pet...@gmail.com (Petzl)
Newsgroups: aus.legal
Subject: Re: judge only trial vs jury trial
Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2022 09:49:15 +1000
Lines: 75
Message-ID: <e5j6dh5v5iuf2f41uodrsr6e797kchdna7@4ax.com>
References: <taqnhh$1114$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pbw25k8byq249@pvr2.lan> <taqqr3$1sc6$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pb2d6lhbyq249@pvr2.lan> <tar1h6$1u0g$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pb51oujbyq249@pvr2.lan> <tar92q$u3a$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pcc1qeabyq249@pvr2.lan> <tate4s$9ak$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pds4eqobyq249@pvr2.lan>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Trace: individual.net Lc4FMkutrSz6KfnyHgIeVwlHL5c17l8/wQ67viGhM72vFRm3FU
Cancel-Lock: sha1:92dttqXJhIpsA9NGwwGlNEOXbe8=
User-Agent: ForteAgent/8.00.32.1272
 by: Petzl - Sat, 16 Jul 2022 23:49 UTC

On Sat, 16 Jul 2022 14:22:52 +1000, "Rod Speed"
<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

>Max <max@val.morgan> wrote
>> Rod Speed wrote
>>> Max <max@val.morgan> wrote
>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>> Max <max@val.morgan> wrote
>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>> Max <max@val.morgan> wrote
>>>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>>>> Max <max@val.morgan> wrote
>
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/courts-law/marathon-chris-dawson-trial-finally-comes-to-a-close/news-story/18c727bfcb27bbd7f53e7728cd7ad117
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Chris Dawson will learn his fate now that the murder trial has
>>>>>>>>>> wound up. In the judge only trial, with no jury, the judge will
>>>>>>>>>> deliver his verdict in September.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Compare that to a jury trial where the jury would be expected to
>>>>>>>>>> deliver a verdict in a manner of hours, or a few days at the
>>>>>>>>>> most.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> How is it fair that in a judge only trial, the verdict is given
>>>>>>>>>> months of consideration by the judge, but in a jury trial, the
>>>>>>>>>> verdict is given much less time in consideration?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The judicial system is never about fair, stupid.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What is it about, then?
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Holding those accountable who have been proven to have breached
>>>>>>> the law, stupid.
>>>
>>>>>> Doesn't that mean it is meant to be done fairly?
>>>
>>>>> Nope. And there is nothing unfair about a judge in a judge alone
>>>>> trial taking time to document how he arrived at the judgement
>>>>> that he arrived at anyway. In fact that is more fair than just
>>>>> anouncing his judgement and not saying how he arrived at
>>>>> that and taking time to conside the evidence thoroughly.
>>>
>>>> So the judge gets to consider the evidence thoroughly, as you put it,
>>>> whereas the jury doesn't, right?
>>> Wrong, the judge gets to spell out the reasons why he decided
>>> the accused is guilty or not, and the jury doesn't have to do that.
>>
>> Are you saying the judge would decide in the same amount of time that a
>> jury does?
>
>Corse not given that with a jury most of the time is taken
>up with convincing the minority of the jury to agree with
>the verdict that the majority of the jurors want to see.
>
>And that is all irrelevant to the fact that a judge alone trial
>is MORE fair because the accused and its lawyers get to
>see the reasoning behind the judge's decision and doesnt
>with a jury trial.
>
>Of course it can take longer for the judge to document the
>reasoning behind the judge's decision, particularly given
>that judge is unlikely to have nothing else to do after the
>trial has ended.
>
More likely to be found guilty with a jury who hate you for having
them come for jury service.
Often again, again, again,again, again, again....
Because after all the tine wasting the perp changes his plea to guilty
Then that was just wasting your time and day.
Don't count to your jury service, will be called again, again,
again,again, again, again.... till you actually SIT in 3 court cases.
--
Petzl
Good lawyers know the law
Great lawyers know the judge

Re: judge only trial vs jury trial

<op.1pfg46gcbyq249@pvr2.lan>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=6757&group=aus.legal#6757

  copy link   Newsgroups: aus.legal
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!news.uzoreto.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: aus.legal
Subject: Re: judge only trial vs jury trial
Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2022 11:59:20 +1000
Lines: 79
Message-ID: <op.1pfg46gcbyq249@pvr2.lan>
References: <taqnhh$1114$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pbw25k8byq249@pvr2.lan>
<taqqr3$1sc6$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pb2d6lhbyq249@pvr2.lan>
<tar1h6$1u0g$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pb51oujbyq249@pvr2.lan>
<tar92q$u3a$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pcc1qeabyq249@pvr2.lan>
<tate4s$9ak$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pds4eqobyq249@pvr2.lan>
<e5j6dh5v5iuf2f41uodrsr6e797kchdna7@4ax.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed; delsp=yes
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Trace: individual.net yZePJaPXwgQiHpMPjnuPEwu4hlYAt9hTSNpX6ARHt1TuZ/D6k=
Cancel-Lock: sha1:r2IEI86VGAJcAGKGl9kiInArySQ=
User-Agent: Opera Mail/1.0 (Win32)
 by: Rod Speed - Sun, 17 Jul 2022 01:59 UTC

Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> Max <max@val.morgan> wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>> Max <max@val.morgan> wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>> Max <max@val.morgan> wrote
>>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>>> Max <max@val.morgan> wrote
>>>>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>>>>> Max <max@val.morgan> wrote

>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/courts-law/marathon-chris-dawson-trial-finally-comes-to-a-close/news-story/18c727bfcb27bbd7f53e7728cd7ad117
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Chris Dawson will learn his fate now that the murder trial has
>>>>>>>>>>> wound up. In the judge only trial, with no jury, the judge will
>>>>>>>>>>> deliver his verdict in September.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Compare that to a jury trial where the jury would be expected
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> deliver a verdict in a manner of hours, or a few days at the
>>>>>>>>>>> most.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> How is it fair that in a judge only trial, the verdict is given
>>>>>>>>>>> months of consideration by the judge, but in a jury trial, the
>>>>>>>>>>> verdict is given much less time in consideration?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The judicial system is never about fair, stupid.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What is it about, then?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Holding those accountable who have been proven to have breached
>>>>>>>> the law, stupid.
>>>>
>>>>>>> Doesn't that mean it is meant to be done fairly?
>>>>
>>>>>> Nope. And there is nothing unfair about a judge in a judge alone
>>>>>> trial taking time to document how he arrived at the judgement
>>>>>> that he arrived at anyway. In fact that is more fair than just
>>>>>> anouncing his judgement and not saying how he arrived at
>>>>>> that and taking time to conside the evidence thoroughly.
>>>>
>>>>> So the judge gets to consider the evidence thoroughly, as you put it,
>>>>> whereas the jury doesn't, right?
>>>> Wrong, the judge gets to spell out the reasons why he decided
>>>> the accused is guilty or not, and the jury doesn't have to do that.
>>>
>>> Are you saying the judge would decide in the same amount of time that a
>>> jury does?
>>
>> Corse not given that with a jury most of the time is taken
>> up with convincing the minority of the jury to agree with
>> the verdict that the majority of the jurors want to see.
>>
>> And that is all irrelevant to the fact that a judge alone trial
>> is MORE fair because the accused and its lawyers get to
>> see the reasoning behind the judge's decision and doesnt
>> with a jury trial.
>>
>> Of course it can take longer for the judge to document the
>> reasoning behind the judge's decision, particularly given
>> that judge is unlikely to have nothing else to do after the
>> trial has ended.

> More likely to be found guilty with a jury whohate you for having them
> come for jury service.

Bullshit.

> Often again, again, again,again, again, again....
> Because after all the tine wasting the perp changes hisplea to guilty
> Then that was just wasting your time and day.

Not that common at all and the jury is irrelevant after
that and there is a considerable delay before you get
called for jury service again.

> Don't count to your jury service, will be called again, again,
> again,again, again, again.... till you actually SIT in 3 court cases.

Re: judge only trial vs jury trial

<h1t6dhhdcqoa0ia147314vj7h461qh3cjo@4ax.com>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=6762&group=aus.legal#6762

  copy link   Newsgroups: aus.legal
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.goja.nl.eu.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!lilly.ping.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: pet...@gmail.com (Petzl)
Newsgroups: aus.legal
Subject: Re: judge only trial vs jury trial
Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2022 12:41:24 +1000
Lines: 101
Message-ID: <h1t6dhhdcqoa0ia147314vj7h461qh3cjo@4ax.com>
References: <taqnhh$1114$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pbw25k8byq249@pvr2.lan> <taqqr3$1sc6$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pb2d6lhbyq249@pvr2.lan> <tar1h6$1u0g$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pb51oujbyq249@pvr2.lan> <tar92q$u3a$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pcc1qeabyq249@pvr2.lan> <tate4s$9ak$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pds4eqobyq249@pvr2.lan> <e5j6dh5v5iuf2f41uodrsr6e797kchdna7@4ax.com> <op.1pfg46gcbyq249@pvr2.lan>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Trace: individual.net EL7PSJbnCi3PkCihTeirhgdROtBK3KfI3AnHXJ8JDwtJo7P7/p
Cancel-Lock: sha1:AHgP+QvBkvcXkr+LDbNlfeRXMx8=
User-Agent: ForteAgent/8.00.32.1272
 by: Petzl - Sun, 17 Jul 2022 02:41 UTC

On Sun, 17 Jul 2022 11:59:20 +1000, "Rod Speed"
<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

>Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote
>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Max <max@val.morgan> wrote
>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>> Max <max@val.morgan> wrote
>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>> Max <max@val.morgan> wrote
>>>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>>>> Max <max@val.morgan> wrote
>>>>>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>>>>>> Max <max@val.morgan> wrote
>
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/courts-law/marathon-chris-dawson-trial-finally-comes-to-a-close/news-story/18c727bfcb27bbd7f53e7728cd7ad117
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Chris Dawson will learn his fate now that the murder trial has
>>>>>>>>>>>> wound up. In the judge only trial, with no jury, the judge will
>>>>>>>>>>>> deliver his verdict in September.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Compare that to a jury trial where the jury would be expected
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> deliver a verdict in a manner of hours, or a few days at the
>>>>>>>>>>>> most.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> How is it fair that in a judge only trial, the verdict is given
>>>>>>>>>>>> months of consideration by the judge, but in a jury trial, the
>>>>>>>>>>>> verdict is given much less time in consideration?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The judicial system is never about fair, stupid.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> What is it about, then?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Holding those accountable who have been proven to have breached
>>>>>>>>> the law, stupid.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Doesn't that mean it is meant to be done fairly?
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nope. And there is nothing unfair about a judge in a judge alone
>>>>>>> trial taking time to document how he arrived at the judgement
>>>>>>> that he arrived at anyway. In fact that is more fair than just
>>>>>>> anouncing his judgement and not saying how he arrived at
>>>>>>> that and taking time to conside the evidence thoroughly.
>>>>>
>>>>>> So the judge gets to consider the evidence thoroughly, as you put it,
>>>>>> whereas the jury doesn't, right?
>>>>> Wrong, the judge gets to spell out the reasons why he decided
>>>>> the accused is guilty or not, and the jury doesn't have to do that.
>>>>
>>>> Are you saying the judge would decide in the same amount of time that a
>>>> jury does?
>>>
>>> Corse not given that with a jury most of the time is taken
>>> up with convincing the minority of the jury to agree with
>>> the verdict that the majority of the jurors want to see.
>>>
>>> And that is all irrelevant to the fact that a judge alone trial
>>> is MORE fair because the accused and its lawyers get to
>>> see the reasoning behind the judge's decision and doesnt
>>> with a jury trial.
>>>
>>> Of course it can take longer for the judge to document the
>>> reasoning behind the judge's decision, particularly given
>>> that judge is unlikely to have nothing else to do after the
>>> trial has ended.
>
>> More likely to be found guilty with a jury who hate you for having them
>> come for jury service.
>
>Bullshit.
>
Not with me, guaranteed I will vote guilty and harm those arseholes
that don't plead guilty.

>> Often again, again, again,again, again, again....
>> Because after all the tine wasting the perp changes hisplea to guilty
>> Then that was just wasting your time and day.
>
>Not that common at all and the jury is irrelevant after
>that and there is a considerable delay before you get
>called for jury service again.
>
Happened 3 times in a row with my call ups
The perp just before trail changed plea to guilty.

Depends what you call no delay?
Once a month for 3 months with me.
Once you are on the NSW call up list, you are called up till you sit
on 3 trails, when the perp changes his/her/it's plea to guilty you are
dismissed and it don't count as a "sit".
Seems that the "Sheriff's" suspiciously pick on ICI employees, seemed
a lot had to attend jury service?
Never heard of any one in other Sydney companies being called up?

>> Don't count to your jury service, will be called again, again,
>> again,again, again, again.... till you actually SIT in 3 court cases.
--
Petzl
Good lawyers know the law
Great lawyers know the judge

Re: judge only trial vs jury trial

<7a1fe099-8a5e-48eb-b8c9-c094ba19c1a4n@googlegroups.com>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=6764&group=aus.legal#6764

  copy link   Newsgroups: aus.legal
X-Received: by 2002:a0c:f284:0:b0:472:fb3c:fa4b with SMTP id k4-20020a0cf284000000b00472fb3cfa4bmr17119558qvl.76.1658026067982;
Sat, 16 Jul 2022 19:47:47 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:ac8:5a4a:0:b0:31e:c15f:c1f9 with SMTP id
o10-20020ac85a4a000000b0031ec15fc1f9mr17530623qta.12.1658026067800; Sat, 16
Jul 2022 19:47:47 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!feed1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer02.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: aus.legal
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2022 19:47:47 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <h1t6dhhdcqoa0ia147314vj7h461qh3cjo@4ax.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=27.33.15.70; posting-account=B_tJMAoAAAAmar-1r2H3x4CMhbFEou3n
NNTP-Posting-Host: 27.33.15.70
References: <taqnhh$1114$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pbw25k8byq249@pvr2.lan>
<taqqr3$1sc6$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pb2d6lhbyq249@pvr2.lan>
<tar1h6$1u0g$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pb51oujbyq249@pvr2.lan>
<tar92q$u3a$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pcc1qeabyq249@pvr2.lan>
<tate4s$9ak$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pds4eqobyq249@pvr2.lan>
<e5j6dh5v5iuf2f41uodrsr6e797kchdna7@4ax.com> <op.1pfg46gcbyq249@pvr2.lan> <h1t6dhhdcqoa0ia147314vj7h461qh3cjo@4ax.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <7a1fe099-8a5e-48eb-b8c9-c094ba19c1a4n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: judge only trial vs jury trial
From: palliso...@gmail.com (Phil Allison)
Injection-Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2022 02:47:47 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
X-Received-Bytes: 2093
 by: Phil Allison - Sun, 17 Jul 2022 02:47 UTC

pet...@gmail.com wrote:
====================
>
> >> More likely to be found guilty with a jury who hate you for having them
> >> come for jury service.
> >
> >Bullshit.
> >
> Not with me, guaranteed I will vote guilty and harm those arseholes
> that don't plead guilty.

** Only causes a hung jury - makes YOU the arsehole.
>
> Happened 3 times in a row with my call ups
> The perp just before trail changed plea to guilty.

** Standard advice given to accused by their lawyers.
Always a chance the case will be dropped or witnesses vanish, recant or die.

...... Phil

Re: judge only trial vs jury trial

<op.1pfj03d5byq249@pvr2.lan>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=6765&group=aus.legal#6765

  copy link   Newsgroups: aus.legal
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!news.uzoreto.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: aus.legal
Subject: Re: judge only trial vs jury trial
Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2022 13:01:41 +1000
Lines: 112
Message-ID: <op.1pfj03d5byq249@pvr2.lan>
References: <taqnhh$1114$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pbw25k8byq249@pvr2.lan>
<taqqr3$1sc6$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pb2d6lhbyq249@pvr2.lan>
<tar1h6$1u0g$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pb51oujbyq249@pvr2.lan>
<tar92q$u3a$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pcc1qeabyq249@pvr2.lan>
<tate4s$9ak$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pds4eqobyq249@pvr2.lan>
<e5j6dh5v5iuf2f41uodrsr6e797kchdna7@4ax.com> <op.1pfg46gcbyq249@pvr2.lan>
<h1t6dhhdcqoa0ia147314vj7h461qh3cjo@4ax.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed; delsp=yes
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Trace: individual.net 4HWvPghvij+Bj1xOVLG/7gkxCRLyZk1SXJIRz+mfO38SO/HBM=
Cancel-Lock: sha1:DcGhxsx4MstVikWmk2SF3BBRmrk=
User-Agent: Opera Mail/1.0 (Win32)
 by: Rod Speed - Sun, 17 Jul 2022 03:01 UTC

Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> Max <max@val.morgan> wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>> Max <max@val.morgan> wrote
>>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>>> Max <max@val.morgan> wrote
>>>>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>>>>> Max <max@val.morgan> wrote
>>>>>>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>> Max <max@val.morgan> wrote
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/courts-law/marathon-chris-dawson-trial-finally-comes-to-a-close/news-story/18c727bfcb27bbd7f53e7728cd7ad117
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chris Dawson will learn his fate now that the murder trial
>>>>>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wound up. In the judge only trial, with no jury, the judge
>>>>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>>>>> deliver his verdict in September.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Compare that to a jury trial where the jury would be expected
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> deliver a verdict in a manner of hours, or a few days at the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> most.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> How is it fair that in a judge only trial, the verdict is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> given
>>>>>>>>>>>>> months of consideration by the judge, but in a jury trial,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> verdict is given much less time in consideration?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The judicial system is never about fair, stupid.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> What is it about, then?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Holding those accountable who have been proven to have breached
>>>>>>>>>> the law, stupid.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Doesn't that mean it is meant to be done fairly?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nope. And there is nothing unfair about a judge in a judge alone
>>>>>>>> trial taking time to document how he arrived at the judgement
>>>>>>>> that he arrived at anyway. In fact that is more fair than just
>>>>>>>> anouncing his judgement and not saying how he arrived at
>>>>>>>> that and taking time to conside the evidence thoroughly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So the judge gets to consider the evidence thoroughly, as you put
>>>>>>> it,
>>>>>>> whereas the jury doesn't, right?
>>>>>> Wrong, the judge gets to spell out the reasons why he decided
>>>>>> the accused is guilty or not, and the jury doesn't have to do that.
>>>>>
>>>>> Are you saying the judge would decide in the same amount of time
>>>>> that a
>>>>> jury does?
>>>>
>>>> Corse not given that with a jury most of the time is taken
>>>> up with convincing the minority of the jury to agree with
>>>> the verdict that the majority of the jurors want to see.
>>>>
>>>> And that is all irrelevant to the fact that a judge alone trial
>>>> is MORE fair because the accused and its lawyers get to
>>>> see the reasoning behind the judge's decision and doesnt
>>>> with a jury trial.
>>>>
>>>> Of course it can take longer for the judge to document the
>>>> reasoning behind the judge's decision, particularly given
>>>> that judge is unlikely to have nothing else to do after the
>>>> trial has ended.
>>
>>> More likely to be found guilty with a jury who hate you for having
>>> them
>>> come for jury service.
>>
>> Bullshit.

> Not with me, guaranteed I will vote guilty and harm those arseholes
> that don't plead guilty.

Hardly anyone operates like that.

>>> Often again, again, again,again, again, again....
>>> Because after all the tine wasting the perp changes hisplea to guilty
>>> Then that was just wasting your time and day.
>>
>> Not that common at all and the jury is irrelevant after
>> that and there is a considerable delay before you get
>> called for jury service again.

> Happened 3 times in a row with my call ups
> The perp just before trail changed plea to guilty.

But in that situation the jury is irrelevant.

> Depends what you call no delay?
> Once a month for 3 months with me.

I was talking about the delay after you have been part of the jury in a
trial.

> Once you are on the NSW call up list, you are called up till you sit
> on 3 trails, when the perp changes his/her/it's plea to guilty you are
> dismissed and it don't count as a "sit".

> Seems that the "Sheriff's" suspiciously pick on ICI employees, seemed
> a lot had to attend jury service?
> Never heard of any one in other Sydney companies being called up?

>>> Don't count to your jury service, will be called again, again,
>>> again,again, again, again.... till you actually SIT in 3 court cases.

Re: judge only trial vs jury trial

<it47dhhtggpbnnogkngadjmv1ao47l1bbl@4ax.com>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=6773&group=aus.legal#6773

  copy link   Newsgroups: aus.legal
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!news.uzoreto.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: pet...@gmail.com (Petzl)
Newsgroups: aus.legal
Subject: Re: judge only trial vs jury trial
Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2022 14:54:11 +1000
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <it47dhhtggpbnnogkngadjmv1ao47l1bbl@4ax.com>
References: <taqnhh$1114$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pbw25k8byq249@pvr2.lan> <taqqr3$1sc6$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pb2d6lhbyq249@pvr2.lan> <tar1h6$1u0g$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pb51oujbyq249@pvr2.lan> <tar92q$u3a$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pcc1qeabyq249@pvr2.lan> <tate4s$9ak$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pds4eqobyq249@pvr2.lan> <e5j6dh5v5iuf2f41uodrsr6e797kchdna7@4ax.com> <op.1pfg46gcbyq249@pvr2.lan> <h1t6dhhdcqoa0ia147314vj7h461qh3cjo@4ax.com> <7a1fe099-8a5e-48eb-b8c9-c094ba19c1a4n@googlegroups.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Trace: individual.net t0xAnXeFmeASX6iLBIyS/Qq2nl3+Dr1rsYGydn0D/DAmr1tKQR
Cancel-Lock: sha1:fVrtrEDXkgnndNWCb1/LOg/fXrg=
User-Agent: ForteAgent/8.00.32.1272
 by: Petzl - Sun, 17 Jul 2022 04:54 UTC

On Sat, 16 Jul 2022 19:47:47 -0700 (PDT), Phil Allison
<pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:

>pet...@gmail.com wrote:
>====================
>>
>> >> More likely to be found guilty with a jury who hate you for having them
>> >> come for jury service.
>> >
>> >Bullshit.
>> >
>> Not with me, guaranteed I will vote guilty and harm those arseholes
>> that don't plead guilty.
>
>** Only causes a hung jury - makes YOU the arsehole.
>>
Everyone I know agrees this is rigging for perps to plead not guilty
when they are.
Would also like legal aid stopped and have lawyers called to represent
those as a freebie as do those that are called up for jury duty"

>> Happened 3 times in a row with my call ups
>> The perp just before trail changed plea to guilty.
>
>** Standard advice given to accused by their lawyers.
>
> Always a chance the case will be dropped or witnesses vanish, recant or die.
>
No the perp is in the court and about to be tried with a jury called.
Just scam advice by the perps lawyer to blackmail for a plea bargain.
Used to be when you went to a lawyers office the first you see under
their name is "legal aid" available here the norm, it's a scam.
And what happened to me is common
--
Petzl
Good lawyers know the law
Great lawyers know the judge

Re: judge only trial vs jury trial

<op.1pfp07rrbyq249@pvr2.lan>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=6774&group=aus.legal#6774

  copy link   Newsgroups: aus.legal
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!feeder1.feed.usenet.farm!feed.usenet.farm!news.uzoreto.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: aus.legal
Subject: Re: judge only trial vs jury trial
Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2022 15:11:21 +1000
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <op.1pfp07rrbyq249@pvr2.lan>
References: <taqnhh$1114$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pbw25k8byq249@pvr2.lan>
<taqqr3$1sc6$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pb2d6lhbyq249@pvr2.lan>
<tar1h6$1u0g$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pb51oujbyq249@pvr2.lan>
<tar92q$u3a$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pcc1qeabyq249@pvr2.lan>
<tate4s$9ak$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pds4eqobyq249@pvr2.lan>
<e5j6dh5v5iuf2f41uodrsr6e797kchdna7@4ax.com> <op.1pfg46gcbyq249@pvr2.lan>
<h1t6dhhdcqoa0ia147314vj7h461qh3cjo@4ax.com>
<7a1fe099-8a5e-48eb-b8c9-c094ba19c1a4n@googlegroups.com>
<it47dhhtggpbnnogkngadjmv1ao47l1bbl@4ax.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed; delsp=yes
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Trace: individual.net VPSmR/qGVfpxqkq83PlyTA7f+uFNK4DOvjILG3Dd6aVsVIlLA=
Cancel-Lock: sha1:7cNi/0ZgCs22L4BG0qxxYYjmu4Q=
User-Agent: Opera Mail/1.0 (Win32)
 by: Rod Speed - Sun, 17 Jul 2022 05:11 UTC

On Sun, 17 Jul 2022 14:54:11 +1000, Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sat, 16 Jul 2022 19:47:47 -0700 (PDT), Phil Allison
> <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> pet...@gmail.com wrote:
>> ====================
>>>
>>> >> More likely to be found guilty with a jury who hate you for having
>>> them
>>> >> come for jury service.
>>> >
>>> >Bullshit.
>>> >
>>> Not with me, guaranteed I will vote guilty and harm those arseholes
>>> that don't plead guilty.
>>
>> ** Only causes a hung jury - makes YOU the arsehole.
>>>
> Everyone I know agrees this is rigging for perps to plead not guilty
> when they are.

> Would also like legal aid stopped and have lawyers called to represent
> those as a freebie as do those that are called up for jury duty"

Thats not viable given that there are so few lawyers.

>>> Happened 3 times in a row with my call ups
>>> The perp just before trail changed plea to guilty.

>> Standard advice given to accused by their lawyers.

>> Always a chance the case will be dropped or witnesses vanish, recant
>> or die.

> No the perp is in the court and about to be tried with a jury called.
> Just scam advice by the perps lawyer to blackmail for a plea bargain.
> Used to be when you went to a lawyers office the first you see under
> their name is "legal aid" available here the norm, it's a scam.
> And what happened to me is common

Re: judge only trial vs jury trial

<tb0886$1cjt$1@gioia.aioe.org>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=6775&group=aus.legal#6775

  copy link   Newsgroups: aus.legal
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!y5+HOOoKIMtxjCZfPYnWgA.user.46.165.242.91.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: max...@val.morgan (Max)
Newsgroups: aus.legal
Subject: Re: judge only trial vs jury trial
Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2022 15:55:15 +1000
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID: <tb0886$1cjt$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <taqnhh$1114$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pbw25k8byq249@pvr2.lan>
<taqqr3$1sc6$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pb2d6lhbyq249@pvr2.lan>
<tar1h6$1u0g$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pb51oujbyq249@pvr2.lan>
<tar92q$u3a$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pcc1qeabyq249@pvr2.lan>
<tate4s$9ak$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pds4eqobyq249@pvr2.lan>
<e5j6dh5v5iuf2f41uodrsr6e797kchdna7@4ax.com> <op.1pfg46gcbyq249@pvr2.lan>
<h1t6dhhdcqoa0ia147314vj7h461qh3cjo@4ax.com>
<7a1fe099-8a5e-48eb-b8c9-c094ba19c1a4n@googlegroups.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Info: gioia.aioe.org; logging-data="45693"; posting-host="y5+HOOoKIMtxjCZfPYnWgA.user.gioia.aioe.org"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@aioe.org";
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/91.11.0
X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.9.2
 by: Max - Sun, 17 Jul 2022 05:55 UTC

On 17/07/2022 12:47 pm, Phil Allison wrote:
> pet...@gmail.com wrote:
> ====================
>>
>>>> More likely to be found guilty with a jury who hate you for having them
>>>> come for jury service.
>>>
>>> Bullshit.
>>>
>> Not with me, guaranteed I will vote guilty and harm those arseholes
>> that don't plead guilty.
>
> ** Only causes a hung jury - makes YOU the arsehole.
>>
>> Happened 3 times in a row with my call ups
>> The perp just before trail changed plea to guilty.
>
> ** Standard advice given to accused by their lawyers.
>
> Always a chance the case will be dropped or witnesses vanish, recant or die.
>

Only in certain situations. The defendant can get a sentence discount if
they plead guilty early.

Re: judge only trial vs jury trial

<2ae205d6-2c56-4671-a48d-b73e430bd54an@googlegroups.com>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=6776&group=aus.legal#6776

  copy link   Newsgroups: aus.legal
X-Received: by 2002:a05:622a:19a2:b0:31e:eecb:2af8 with SMTP id u34-20020a05622a19a200b0031eeecb2af8mr244879qtc.651.1658042263577;
Sun, 17 Jul 2022 00:17:43 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:622a:24a:b0:31e:dc36:6cf0 with SMTP id
c10-20020a05622a024a00b0031edc366cf0mr7623151qtx.435.1658042263420; Sun, 17
Jul 2022 00:17:43 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!news.misty.com!border2.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: aus.legal
Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2022 00:17:43 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <it47dhhtggpbnnogkngadjmv1ao47l1bbl@4ax.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=27.33.15.70; posting-account=B_tJMAoAAAAmar-1r2H3x4CMhbFEou3n
NNTP-Posting-Host: 27.33.15.70
References: <taqnhh$1114$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pbw25k8byq249@pvr2.lan>
<taqqr3$1sc6$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pb2d6lhbyq249@pvr2.lan>
<tar1h6$1u0g$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pb51oujbyq249@pvr2.lan>
<tar92q$u3a$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pcc1qeabyq249@pvr2.lan>
<tate4s$9ak$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pds4eqobyq249@pvr2.lan>
<e5j6dh5v5iuf2f41uodrsr6e797kchdna7@4ax.com> <op.1pfg46gcbyq249@pvr2.lan>
<h1t6dhhdcqoa0ia147314vj7h461qh3cjo@4ax.com> <7a1fe099-8a5e-48eb-b8c9-c094ba19c1a4n@googlegroups.com>
<it47dhhtggpbnnogkngadjmv1ao47l1bbl@4ax.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <2ae205d6-2c56-4671-a48d-b73e430bd54an@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: judge only trial vs jury trial
From: palliso...@gmail.com (Phil Allison)
Injection-Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2022 07:17:43 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Lines: 39
 by: Phil Allison - Sun, 17 Jul 2022 07:17 UTC

pet...@gmail.com wrote:
====================
>
> >> >
> >> Not with me, guaranteed I will vote guilty and harm those arseholes
> >> that don't plead guilty.
> >
> >** Only causes a hung jury - makes YOU the arsehole.
> >>
> Everyone I know agrees this is rigging for perps to plead not guilty
> when they are.

** Still leaves YOU as a grade A arsehole.

> Would also like legal aid stopped and have lawyers called to represent
> those as a freebie

** Same thing - fuckwit.

> as do those that are called up for jury duty"

** Jurors get paid a daily rate as do many witnesses.

> >> The perp just before trail changed plea to guilty.
> >
> >** Standard advice given to accused by their lawyers.
> >
> > Always a chance the case will be dropped or witnesses vanish, recant or die.
> >
> No the perp is in the court and about to be tried with a jury called.

** Exactly the time police may withdraw, witnesses can vanish or recant.
Colossal IDIOTS do not come any bigger that YOU !!!
=============================================

** Rest of you paranoid shit snipped, it made me feel ill.

Re: judge only trial vs jury trial

<00c9891f-4a68-4aa8-9588-64eae19fd0ban@googlegroups.com>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=6777&group=aus.legal#6777

  copy link   Newsgroups: aus.legal
X-Received: by 2002:a0c:fe69:0:b0:473:9d82:b160 with SMTP id b9-20020a0cfe69000000b004739d82b160mr14963199qvv.111.1658042372013;
Sun, 17 Jul 2022 00:19:32 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a0c:fe69:0:b0:473:9d82:b160 with SMTP id
b9-20020a0cfe69000000b004739d82b160mr14963192qvv.111.1658042371840; Sun, 17
Jul 2022 00:19:31 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!news.misty.com!border2.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: aus.legal
Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2022 00:19:31 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <tb0886$1cjt$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=27.33.15.70; posting-account=B_tJMAoAAAAmar-1r2H3x4CMhbFEou3n
NNTP-Posting-Host: 27.33.15.70
References: <taqnhh$1114$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pbw25k8byq249@pvr2.lan>
<taqqr3$1sc6$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pb2d6lhbyq249@pvr2.lan>
<tar1h6$1u0g$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pb51oujbyq249@pvr2.lan>
<tar92q$u3a$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pcc1qeabyq249@pvr2.lan>
<tate4s$9ak$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pds4eqobyq249@pvr2.lan>
<e5j6dh5v5iuf2f41uodrsr6e797kchdna7@4ax.com> <op.1pfg46gcbyq249@pvr2.lan>
<h1t6dhhdcqoa0ia147314vj7h461qh3cjo@4ax.com> <7a1fe099-8a5e-48eb-b8c9-c094ba19c1a4n@googlegroups.com>
<tb0886$1cjt$1@gioia.aioe.org>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <00c9891f-4a68-4aa8-9588-64eae19fd0ban@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: judge only trial vs jury trial
From: palliso...@gmail.com (Phil Allison)
Injection-Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2022 07:19:32 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Lines: 10
 by: Phil Allison - Sun, 17 Jul 2022 07:19 UTC

Some criminal wog TRoll Max wrote:

> > ** Standard advice given to accused by their lawyers.
> >
> > Always a chance the case will be dropped or witnesses vanish, recant or die.
> >
> Only in certain situations.

** FUCK OFF WOG LIAR !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: judge only trial vs jury trial

<tud7dhhl90prhmscbkl627ffr84guihs5g@4ax.com>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=6778&group=aus.legal#6778

  copy link   Newsgroups: aus.legal
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!news.neodome.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: pet...@gmail.com (Petzl)
Newsgroups: aus.legal
Subject: Re: judge only trial vs jury trial
Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2022 17:25:01 +1000
Lines: 51
Message-ID: <tud7dhhl90prhmscbkl627ffr84guihs5g@4ax.com>
References: <op.1pb2d6lhbyq249@pvr2.lan> <tar1h6$1u0g$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pb51oujbyq249@pvr2.lan> <tar92q$u3a$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pcc1qeabyq249@pvr2.lan> <tate4s$9ak$1@gioia.aioe.org> <op.1pds4eqobyq249@pvr2.lan> <e5j6dh5v5iuf2f41uodrsr6e797kchdna7@4ax.com> <op.1pfg46gcbyq249@pvr2.lan> <h1t6dhhdcqoa0ia147314vj7h461qh3cjo@4ax.com> <7a1fe099-8a5e-48eb-b8c9-c094ba19c1a4n@googlegroups.com> <it47dhhtggpbnnogkngadjmv1ao47l1bbl@4ax.com> <op.1pfp07rrbyq249@pvr2.lan>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Trace: individual.net PVvzCxOkkCCtAm+OsjOh3wxRkUugL+0C+vql5CjQjv4Hp7Trxz
Cancel-Lock: sha1:RNqricYZuYy/1p9n2tSTfqMhm44=
User-Agent: ForteAgent/8.00.32.1272
 by: Petzl - Sun, 17 Jul 2022 07:25 UTC

On Sun, 17 Jul 2022 15:11:21 +1000, "Rod Speed"
<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 17 Jul 2022 14:54:11 +1000, Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 16 Jul 2022 19:47:47 -0700 (PDT), Phil Allison
>> <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> pet...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> ====================
>>>>
>>>> >> More likely to be found guilty with a jury who hate you for having
>>>> them
>>>> >> come for jury service.
>>>> >
>>>> >Bullshit.
>>>> >
>>>> Not with me, guaranteed I will vote guilty and harm those arseholes
>>>> that don't plead guilty.
>>>
>>> ** Only causes a hung jury - makes YOU the arsehole.
>>>>
>> Everyone I know agrees this is rigging for perps to plead not guilty
>> when they are.
>
>> Would also like legal aid stopped and have lawyers called to represent
>> those as a freebie as do those that are called up for jury duty"
>
>Thats not viable given that there are so few lawyers.
>
Removing legal aid ones will make many, many more, available
Don't know recently but in Campbelltown most criminals get legal aid.
Then there are those still in university that need to get experience

>>>> Happened 3 times in a row with my call ups
>>>> The perp just before trail changed plea to guilty.
>
>>> Standard advice given to accused by their lawyers.
>
>>> Always a chance the case will be dropped or witnesses vanish, recant
>>> or die.
>
>> No the perp is in the court and about to be tried with a jury called.
>> Just scam advice by the perps lawyer to blackmail for a plea bargain.
>> Used to be when you went to a lawyers office the first you see under
>> their name is "legal aid" available here the norm, it's a scam.
>> And what happened to me is common
--
Petzl
Good lawyers know the law
Great lawyers know the judge

Re: judge only trial vs jury trial

<op.1pfwlbhtbyq249@pvr2.lan>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=6779&group=aus.legal#6779

  copy link   Newsgroups: aus.legal
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!news.uzoreto.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: aus.legal
Subject: Re: judge only trial vs jury trial
Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2022 17:33:01 +1000
Lines: 52
Message-ID: <op.1pfwlbhtbyq249@pvr2.lan>
References: <op.1pb2d6lhbyq249@pvr2.lan> <tar1h6$1u0g$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<op.1pb51oujbyq249@pvr2.lan> <tar92q$u3a$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<op.1pcc1qeabyq249@pvr2.lan> <tate4s$9ak$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<op.1pds4eqobyq249@pvr2.lan> <e5j6dh5v5iuf2f41uodrsr6e797kchdna7@4ax.com>
<op.1pfg46gcbyq249@pvr2.lan> <h1t6dhhdcqoa0ia147314vj7h461qh3cjo@4ax.com>
<7a1fe099-8a5e-48eb-b8c9-c094ba19c1a4n@googlegroups.com>
<it47dhhtggpbnnogkngadjmv1ao47l1bbl@4ax.com> <op.1pfp07rrbyq249@pvr2.lan>
<tud7dhhl90prhmscbkl627ffr84guihs5g@4ax.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed; delsp=yes
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Trace: individual.net OujP4EIx/a0luZd3hRMN8A/lziaMvNAlIC6bmYdZIkpXbWFl4=
Cancel-Lock: sha1:IebRTlWq6QB+yGwXoPnBSZ4rT6c=
User-Agent: Opera Mail/1.0 (Win32)
 by: Rod Speed - Sun, 17 Jul 2022 07:33 UTC

On Sun, 17 Jul 2022 17:25:01 +1000, Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, 17 Jul 2022 15:11:21 +1000, "Rod Speed"
> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 17 Jul 2022 14:54:11 +1000, Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 16 Jul 2022 19:47:47 -0700 (PDT), Phil Allison
>>> <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> pet...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> ====================
>>>>>
>>>>> >> More likely to be found guilty with a jury who hate you for having
>>>>> them
>>>>> >> come for jury service.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >Bullshit.
>>>>> >
>>>>> Not with me, guaranteed I will vote guilty and harm those arseholes
>>>>> that don't plead guilty.
>>>>
>>>> ** Only causes a hung jury - makes YOU the arsehole.
>>>>>
>>> Everyone I know agrees this is rigging for perps to plead not guilty
>>> when they are.
>>
>>> Would also like legal aid stopped and have lawyers called to represent
>>> those as a freebie as do those that are called up for jury duty"
>>
>> Thats not viable given that there are so few lawyers.

> Removing legal aid ones will make many, many more, available

Nowhere near enough for all trials.

> Don't know recently but in Campbelltown most criminals get legal aid.
> Then there are those still in university that need to get experience

>>>>> Happened 3 times in a row with my call ups
>>>>> The perp just before trail changed plea to guilty.
>>
>>>> Standard advice given to accused by their lawyers.
>>
>>>> Always a chance the case will be dropped or witnesses vanish, recant
>>>> or die.
>>
>>> No the perp is in the court and about to be tried with a jury called.
>>> Just scam advice by the perps lawyer to blackmail for a plea bargain.
>>> Used to be when you went to a lawyers office the first you see under
>>> their name is "legal aid" available here the norm, it's a scam.
>>> And what happened to me is common


aus+uk / aus.legal / judge only trial vs jury trial

Pages:12
server_pubkey.txt

rocksolid light 0.9.81
clearnet tor