As expected we've had plenty of feedback on yesterday's story about the government rejecting calls from Labour MP Fleur Anderson for cyclists to be required to use a bell...

It's not a new argument either, the 10s were dotted occasional comments from MPs and Lords raising the issue, sometimes in other unrelated road safety debates.

On Facebook, Carol Loughlin told us she finds using one is a bit of a "lottery" as "some pedestrians move across without issue but some seem to see it as a personal attack on their freedom to spread out across the entire shared path."

Martin Hawkins reports "once [being] told if I rang that bell again he'd stick it up my a**e, charming!"

Rog Davies also pointed out the ding of a bell can sometimes come across as rude or entitled..."The thing for me is 'good morning - just letting you know I'm here as I didn't want to make you jump' is infinitely more friendly than ding, ding get out of my way!"

While, Andrew Drake agreed: "I can shout a warning and in a more friendly way."

We had a couple of emails in on the subject too. One, probably sent from under a bridge somewhere, aksed: "Read an article about bells on bikes, is this to make pedestrians using a crossing aware the cyclist is about to go straight though the red lights and nearly hit them?"

Rod also got in touch to say: "That very conservative organisation the Road Time Trials Council then removed the requirement for time triallists to carry a bell whilst riding in a time trial. I along with most riders removed the bell from both my TT bike and my training bike and they are still to this day on the shelf in my workshop. I have no intention whatsoever of using them again! At 75 I am still riding 200 miles a week on road and turbo....... without a bell in sight." No bell on the turbo? Surely that's a bit of a risk...

This morning, group of *eight* people wondered across my path on the Armstrong Bridge:

50m out: 🛎️🛎️!
30m: 🛎️ 🛎️🛎️!
15m: 🛎️🛎️🛎️🛎️!
10m (braking): 🛎️🛎️🛎️🛎️🛎️!
5m (walking pace): "Excuse me! Coming through!"

Pedestrians scattering, with, "WHY DON'T YOU USE YOUR RUDDY BELL!?"

https://road.cc/content/news/cycling-live-blog-9-march-2022-290929#live-blog-item-32369

On 09/03/2022 02:42 pm, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:

> As expected we've had plenty of feedback on yesterday's story about the government rejecting calls from Labour MP Fleur Anderson for cyclists to be required to use a bell...
>
> It's not a new argument either, the 10s were dotted occasional comments from MPs and Lords raising the issue, sometimes in other unrelated road safety debates.
>
> On Facebook, Carol Loughlin told us she finds using one is a bit of a "lottery" as "some pedestrians move across without issue but some seem to see it as a personal attack on their freedom to spread out across the entire shared path."
>
> Martin Hawkins reports "once [being] told if I rang that bell again he'd stick it up my a**e, charming!"
>
> Rog Davies also pointed out the ding of a bell can sometimes come across as rude or entitled..."The thing for me is 'good morning - just letting you know I'm here as I didn't want to make you jump' is infinitely more friendly than ding, ding get out of my way!"
>
> While, Andrew Drake agreed: "I can shout a warning and in a more friendly way."
>
> We had a couple of emails in on the subject too. One, probably sent from under a bridge somewhere, aksed: "Read an article about bells on bikes, is this to make pedestrians using a crossing aware the cyclist is about to go straight though the red lights and nearly hit them?"

True enough in a lot of cases.
>
> Rod also got in touch to say: "That very conservative organisation the Road Time Trials Council then removed the requirement for time triallists to carry a bell whilst riding in a time trial. I along with most riders removed the bell from both my TT bike and my training bike and they are still to this day on the shelf in my workshop. I have no intention whatsoever of using them again! At 75 I am still riding 200 miles a week on road and turbo...... without a bell in sight." No bell on the turbo? Surely that's a bit of a risk...
>
> This morning, group of *eight* people wondered across my path on the Armstrong Bridge:
>
> 50m out: 🛎️🛎️!
> 30m: 🛎️ 🛎️🛎️!
> 15m: 🛎️🛎️🛎️🛎️!
> 10m (braking): 🛎️🛎️🛎️🛎️🛎️!
> 5m (walking pace): "Excuse me! Coming through!"
>
> Pedestrians scattering, with, "WHY DON'T YOU USE YOUR RUDDY BELL!?"

If there are pedestrians in front of you and you cannot pass them safely
(that's safely for them!), why don't you just slow down or stop?

Is that too much to ask?

> https://road.cc/content/news/cycling-live-blog-9-march-2022-290929#live-blog-item-32369

On Wednesday, 9 March 2022 at 17:11:43 UTC, JNugent wrote:
> On 09/03/2022 02:42 pm, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > As expected we've had plenty of feedback on yesterday's story about the government rejecting calls from Labour MP Fleur Anderson for cyclists to be required to use a bell...
> >
> > It's not a new argument either, the 10s were dotted occasional comments from MPs and Lords raising the issue, sometimes in other unrelated road safety debates.
> >
> > On Facebook, Carol Loughlin told us she finds using one is a bit of a "lottery" as "some pedestrians move across without issue but some seem to see it as a personal attack on their freedom to spread out across the entire shared path."
> >
> > Martin Hawkins reports "once [being] told if I rang that bell again he'd stick it up my a**e, charming!"
> >
> > Rog Davies also pointed out the ding of a bell can sometimes come across as rude or entitled..."The thing for me is 'good morning - just letting you know I'm here as I didn't want to make you jump' is infinitely more friendly than ding, ding get out of my way!"
> >
> > While, Andrew Drake agreed: "I can shout a warning and in a more friendly way."
> >
> > We had a couple of emails in on the subject too. One, probably sent from under a bridge somewhere, aksed: "Read an article about bells on bikes, is this to make pedestrians using a crossing aware the cyclist is about to go straight though the red lights and nearly hit them?"
> True enough in a lot of cases.
> >
> > Rod also got in touch to say: "That very conservative organisation the Road Time Trials Council then removed the requirement for time triallists to carry a bell whilst riding in a time trial. I along with most riders removed the bell from both my TT bike and my training bike and they are still to this day on the shelf in my workshop. I have no intention whatsoever of using them again! At 75 I am still riding 200 miles a week on road and turbo....... without a bell in sight." No bell on the turbo? Surely that's a bit of a risk...
> >
> > This morning, group of *eight* people wondered across my path on the Armstrong Bridge:
> >
> > 50m out: 🛎️🛎️!
> > 30m: 🛎️ 🛎️🛎️!
> > 15m: 🛎️🛎️🛎️🛎️!
> > 10m (braking): 🛎️🛎️🛎️🛎️🛎️!
> > 5m (walking pace): "Excuse me! Coming through!"
> >
> > Pedestrians scattering, with, "WHY DON'T YOU USE YOUR RUDDY BELL!?"
> If there are pedestrians in front of you and you cannot pass them safely
> (that's safely for them!), why don't you just slow down or stop?
>
> Is that too much to ask?

How does that work if the pedestrians are moving in the same direction as you?

On 09/03/2022 05:37 pm, Mike Collins wrote:
> On Wednesday, 9 March 2022 at 17:11:43 UTC, JNugent wrote:
>> On 09/03/2022 02:42 pm, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> As expected we've had plenty of feedback on yesterday's story about the government rejecting calls from Labour MP Fleur Anderson for cyclists to be required to use a bell...
>>>
>>> It's not a new argument either, the 10s were dotted occasional comments from MPs and Lords raising the issue, sometimes in other unrelated road safety debates.
>>>
>>> On Facebook, Carol Loughlin told us she finds using one is a bit of a "lottery" as "some pedestrians move across without issue but some seem to see it as a personal attack on their freedom to spread out across the entire shared path."
>>>
>>> Martin Hawkins reports "once [being] told if I rang that bell again he'd stick it up my a**e, charming!"
>>>
>>> Rog Davies also pointed out the ding of a bell can sometimes come across as rude or entitled..."The thing for me is 'good morning - just letting you know I'm here as I didn't want to make you jump' is infinitely more friendly than ding, ding get out of my way!"
>>>
>>> While, Andrew Drake agreed: "I can shout a warning and in a more friendly way."
>>>
>>> We had a couple of emails in on the subject too. One, probably sent from under a bridge somewhere, aksed: "Read an article about bells on bikes, is this to make pedestrians using a crossing aware the cyclist is about to go straight though the red lights and nearly hit them?"
>> True enough in a lot of cases.
>>>
>>> Rod also got in touch to say: "That very conservative organisation the Road Time Trials Council then removed the requirement for time triallists to carry a bell whilst riding in a time trial. I along with most riders removed the bell from both my TT bike and my training bike and they are still to this day on the shelf in my workshop. I have no intention whatsoever of using them again! At 75 I am still riding 200 miles a week on road and turbo...... without a bell in sight." No bell on the turbo? Surely that's a bit of a risk...
>>>
>>> This morning, group of *eight* people wondered across my path on the Armstrong Bridge:
>>>
>>> 50m out: 🛎️🛎️!
>>> 30m: 🛎️ 🛎️🛎️!
>>> 15m: 🛎️🛎️🛎️🛎️!
>>> 10m (braking): 🛎️🛎️🛎️🛎️🛎️!
>>> 5m (walking pace): "Excuse me! Coming through!"
>>>
>>> Pedestrians scattering, with, "WHY DON'T YOU USE YOUR RUDDY BELL!?"

>> If there are pedestrians in front of you and you cannot pass them safely
>> (that's safely for them!), why don't you just slow down or stop?
>> Is that too much to ask?
>
> How does that work if the pedestrians are moving in the same direction as you?

More readily than if they are moving in any other other direction.

On Thursday, 10 March 2022 at 03:13:39 UTC, JNugent wrote:
> On 09/03/2022 05:37 pm, Mike Collins wrote:
> > On Wednesday, 9 March 2022 at 17:11:43 UTC, JNugent wrote:
> >> On 09/03/2022 02:42 pm, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>
> >>> As expected we've had plenty of feedback on yesterday's story about the government rejecting calls from Labour MP Fleur Anderson for cyclists to be required to use a bell...
> >>>
> >>> It's not a new argument either, the 10s were dotted occasional comments from MPs and Lords raising the issue, sometimes in other unrelated road safety debates.
> >>>
> >>> On Facebook, Carol Loughlin told us she finds using one is a bit of a "lottery" as "some pedestrians move across without issue but some seem to see it as a personal attack on their freedom to spread out across the entire shared path."
> >>>
> >>> Martin Hawkins reports "once [being] told if I rang that bell again he'd stick it up my a**e, charming!"
> >>>
> >>> Rog Davies also pointed out the ding of a bell can sometimes come across as rude or entitled..."The thing for me is 'good morning - just letting you know I'm here as I didn't want to make you jump' is infinitely more friendly than ding, ding get out of my way!"
> >>>
> >>> While, Andrew Drake agreed: "I can shout a warning and in a more friendly way."
> >>>
> >>> We had a couple of emails in on the subject too. One, probably sent from under a bridge somewhere, aksed: "Read an article about bells on bikes, is this to make pedestrians using a crossing aware the cyclist is about to go straight though the red lights and nearly hit them?"
> >> True enough in a lot of cases.
> >>>
> >>> Rod also got in touch to say: "That very conservative organisation the Road Time Trials Council then removed the requirement for time triallists to carry a bell whilst riding in a time trial. I along with most riders removed the bell from both my TT bike and my training bike and they are still to this day on the shelf in my workshop. I have no intention whatsoever of using them again! At 75 I am still riding 200 miles a week on road and turbo...... without a bell in sight." No bell on the turbo? Surely that's a bit of a risk...
> >>>
> >>> This morning, group of *eight* people wondered across my path on the Armstrong Bridge:
> >>>
> >>> 50m out: 🛎️🛎️!
> >>> 30m: 🛎️ 🛎️🛎️!
> >>> 15m: 🛎️🛎️🛎️🛎️!
> >>> 10m (braking): 🛎️🛎️🛎️🛎️🛎️!
> >>> 5m (walking pace): "Excuse me! Coming through!"
> >>>
> >>> Pedestrians scattering, with, "WHY DON'T YOU USE YOUR RUDDY BELL!?"
>
> >> If there are pedestrians in front of you and you cannot pass them safely
> >> (that's safely for them!), why don't you just slow down or stop?
> >> Is that too much to ask?
> >
> > How does that work if the pedestrians are moving in the same direction as you?
> More readily than if they are moving in any other other direction.

Please explain.
If I am cycling on a shared use path and there are some pedestrians in front of me walking in the same direction as me with their backs to me.
According to you I am not permitted to give a polite 'ding' on my bell to warn them of my presence but must "slow down or stop".
I ask because I use such a path on my morning commute and occasionally come up behind a couple of joggers. One of which is clearly blind because they are holding hands with a white baton. I give a 'ding' they say thank you and I say good morning.

On 10/03/22 03:42, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
> As expected we've had plenty of feedback on yesterday's story about the government rejecting calls from Labour MP Fleur Anderson for cyclists to be required to use a bell...
>
> It's not a new argument either, the 10s were dotted occasional comments from MPs and Lords raising the issue, sometimes in other unrelated road safety debates.
>
> On Facebook, Carol Loughlin told us she finds using one is a bit of a "lottery" as "some pedestrians move across without issue but some seem to see it as a personal attack on their freedom to spread out across the entire shared path."
>
> Martin Hawkins reports "once [being] told if I rang that bell again he'd stick it up my a**e, charming!"
>
> Rog Davies also pointed out the ding of a bell can sometimes come across as rude or entitled..."The thing for me is 'good morning - just letting you know I'm here as I didn't want to make you jump' is infinitely more friendly than ding, ding get out of my way!"
>
> While, Andrew Drake agreed: "I can shout a warning and in a more friendly way."
>
> We had a couple of emails in on the subject too. One, probably sent from under a bridge somewhere, aksed: "Read an article about bells on bikes, is this to make pedestrians using a crossing aware the cyclist is about to go straight though the red lights and nearly hit them?"
>
> Rod also got in touch to say: "That very conservative organisation the Road Time Trials Council then removed the requirement for time triallists to carry a bell whilst riding in a time trial. I along with most riders removed the bell from both my TT bike and my training bike and they are still to this day on the shelf in my workshop. I have no intention whatsoever of using them again! At 75 I am still riding 200 miles a week on road and turbo...... without a bell in sight." No bell on the turbo? Surely that's a bit of a risk...
>
>
> This morning, group of *eight* people wondered across my path on the Armstrong Bridge:
>
> 50m out: 🛎️🛎️!
> 30m: 🛎️ 🛎️🛎️!
> 15m: 🛎️🛎️🛎️🛎️!
> 10m (braking): 🛎️🛎️🛎️🛎️🛎️!
> 5m (walking pace): "Excuse me! Coming through!"
>
> Pedestrians scattering, with, "WHY DON'T YOU USE YOUR RUDDY BELL!?"
>
>
> https://road.cc/content/news/cycling-live-blog-9-march-2022-290929#live-blog-item-32369

Yes.

On 10/03/2022 08:52 am, Mike Collins wrote:

> On Thursday, 10 March 2022 at 03:13:39 UTC, JNugent wrote:
>> On 09/03/2022 05:37 pm, Mike Collins wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, 9 March 2022 at 17:11:43 UTC, JNugent wrote:
>>>> On 09/03/2022 02:42 pm, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>>>> As expected we've had plenty of feedback on yesterday's story about the government rejecting calls from Labour MP Fleur Anderson for cyclists to be required to use a bell...
>>>>> It's not a new argument either, the 10s were dotted occasional comments from MPs and Lords raising the issue, sometimes in other unrelated road safety debates.
>>>>> On Facebook, Carol Loughlin told us she finds using one is a bit of a "lottery" as "some pedestrians move across without issue but some seem to see it as a personal attack on their freedom to spread out across the entire shared path."
>>>>> Martin Hawkins reports "once [being] told if I rang that bell again he'd stick it up my a**e, charming!"
>>>>> Rog Davies also pointed out the ding of a bell can sometimes come across as rude or entitled..."The thing for me is 'good morning - just letting you know I'm here as I didn't want to make you jump' is infinitely more friendly than ding, ding get out of my way!"
>>>>> While, Andrew Drake agreed: "I can shout a warning and in a more friendly way."
>>>>> We had a couple of emails in on the subject too. One, probably sent from under a bridge somewhere, aksed: "Read an article about bells on bikes, is this to make pedestrians using a crossing aware the cyclist is about to go straight though the red lights and nearly hit them?"

>>>> True enough in a lot of cases.
>
>>>>> Rod also got in touch to say: "That very conservative organisation the Road Time Trials Council then removed the requirement for time triallists to carry a bell whilst riding in a time trial. I along with most riders removed the bell from both my TT bike and my training bike and they are still to this day on the shelf in my workshop. I have no intention whatsoever of using them again! At 75 I am still riding 200 miles a week on road and turbo...... without a bell in sight." No bell on the turbo? Surely that's a bit of a risk...
>>>>> This morning, group of *eight* people wondered across my path on the Armstrong Bridge:
>>>>> 50m out: 🛎️🛎️!
>>>>> 30m: 🛎️ 🛎️🛎️!
>>>>> 15m: 🛎️🛎️🛎️🛎️!
>>>>> 10m (braking): 🛎️🛎️🛎️🛎️🛎️!
>>>>> 5m (walking pace): "Excuse me! Coming through!"
>
>>>>> Pedestrians scattering, with, "WHY DON'T YOU USE YOUR RUDDY BELL!?"
>
>>>> If there are pedestrians in front of you and you cannot pass them safely
>>>> (that's safely for them!), why don't you just slow down or stop?
>>>> Is that too much to ask?
>
>>> How does that work if the pedestrians are moving in the same direction as you?

>> More readily than if they are moving in any other other direction.
>
> Please explain.

> If I am cycling on a shared use path and there are some pedestrians in front of me walking in the same direction as me with their backs to me.
> According to you I am not permitted to give a polite 'ding' on my bell to warn them of my presence but must "slow down or stop".

If you are approaching pedestrians from behind them, the closing speed
is entirely in your hands - and feet.

Ring the bell (or call out - it is certainly possible to that politely)
if you wish to. It doesn't guarantee that the pedestrians will (still
less must) cede priority to you. They might not even hear you, but if
they do, they are not "commanded" by your bell. I'm sure we agree on
that. And neither are you entitled to break the law if miffed by their
failure - for whatever reason - to obey you.

> I ask because I use such a path on my morning commute and occasionally come up behind a couple of joggers. One of which is clearly blind because they are holding hands with a white baton. I give a 'ding' they say thank you and I say good morning.

No problem in those circumstances. I am certainly not opposed to the use
of bicycle bells. The problem arises when the pedestrians do not respond
to the bell (as, indeed, they are not obliged to). In such
circumstances, and where there is no lateral space to pass safely
(that's safely for the pedestrians), slowing down and/or stopping is the
only lawful recourse you have.

Just hang back.

Wait for a safe place to overtake.

That's good advice for all wheeled road-users, isn't it?

On Thursday, March 10, 2022 at 8:52:11 AM UTC, Mike Collins wrote:
occasionally come up behind a couple of joggers. One of which is clearly blind because they are holding hands with a white baton. I give a 'ding' they say thank you and I say good morning.

I just cycle around them on the grass verge - simple.
I do the same with dogs on illegally long leads.

On 10/03/2022 13:37, JNugent wrote:

> Ring the bell (or call out - it is certainly possible to that politely)
> if you wish to. It doesn't guarantee that the pedestrians will (still
> less must) cede priority to you. They might not even hear you, but if
> they do, they are not "commanded" by your bell. I'm sure we agree on
> that. And neither are you entitled to break the law if miffed by their
> failure - for whatever reason - to obey you.

Well said! It's time that cyclists learned what's what when it comes to
pedestrians.

--
Spike

On Thursday, March 10, 2022 at 3:15:07 PM UTC, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, March 10, 2022 at 8:52:11 AM UTC, Mike Collins wrote:
> occasionally come up behind a couple of joggers. One of which is clearly blind because they are holding hands with a white baton. I give a 'ding' they say thank you and I say good morning.
> I just cycle around them on the grass verge - simple.
> I do the same with dogs on illegally long leads.

There was a famous video of me doing just that on my commute home in 2011.

No dogs were harmed in this video. :-)

On Thursday, 10 March 2022 at 13:37:46 UTC, JNugent wrote:
> On 10/03/2022 08:52 am, Mike Collins wrote:
>
> > On Thursday, 10 March 2022 at 03:13:39 UTC, JNugent wrote:
> >> On 09/03/2022 05:37 pm, Mike Collins wrote:
> >>> On Wednesday, 9 March 2022 at 17:11:43 UTC, JNugent wrote:
> >>>> On 09/03/2022 02:42 pm, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> >>>>> As expected we've had plenty of feedback on yesterday's story about the government rejecting calls from Labour MP Fleur Anderson for cyclists to be required to use a bell...
> >>>>> It's not a new argument either, the 10s were dotted occasional comments from MPs and Lords raising the issue, sometimes in other unrelated road safety debates.
> >>>>> On Facebook, Carol Loughlin told us she finds using one is a bit of a "lottery" as "some pedestrians move across without issue but some seem to see it as a personal attack on their freedom to spread out across the entire shared path."
> >>>>> Martin Hawkins reports "once [being] told if I rang that bell again he'd stick it up my a**e, charming!"
> >>>>> Rog Davies also pointed out the ding of a bell can sometimes come across as rude or entitled..."The thing for me is 'good morning - just letting you know I'm here as I didn't want to make you jump' is infinitely more friendly than ding, ding get out of my way!"
> >>>>> While, Andrew Drake agreed: "I can shout a warning and in a more friendly way."
> >>>>> We had a couple of emails in on the subject too. One, probably sent from under a bridge somewhere, aksed: "Read an article about bells on bikes, is this to make pedestrians using a crossing aware the cyclist is about to go straight though the red lights and nearly hit them?"
>
> >>>> True enough in a lot of cases.
> >
> >>>>> Rod also got in touch to say: "That very conservative organisation the Road Time Trials Council then removed the requirement for time triallists to carry a bell whilst riding in a time trial. I along with most riders removed the bell from both my TT bike and my training bike and they are still to this day on the shelf in my workshop. I have no intention whatsoever of using them again! At 75 I am still riding 200 miles a week on road and turbo...... without a bell in sight." No bell on the turbo? Surely that's a bit of a risk...
> >>>>> This morning, group of *eight* people wondered across my path on the Armstrong Bridge:
> >>>>> 50m out: 🛎️🛎️!
> >>>>> 30m: 🛎️ 🛎️🛎️!
> >>>>> 15m: 🛎️🛎️🛎️🛎️!
> >>>>> 10m (braking): 🛎️🛎️🛎️🛎️🛎️!
> >>>>> 5m (walking pace): "Excuse me! Coming through!"
> >
> >>>>> Pedestrians scattering, with, "WHY DON'T YOU USE YOUR RUDDY BELL!?"
> >
> >>>> If there are pedestrians in front of you and you cannot pass them safely
> >>>> (that's safely for them!), why don't you just slow down or stop?
> >>>> Is that too much to ask?
> >
> >>> How does that work if the pedestrians are moving in the same direction as you?
>
> >> More readily than if they are moving in any other other direction.
> >
> > Please explain.
>
> > If I am cycling on a shared use path and there are some pedestrians in front of me walking in the same direction as me with their backs to me.
> > According to you I am not permitted to give a polite 'ding' on my bell to warn them of my presence but must "slow down or stop".
> If you are approaching pedestrians from behind them, the closing speed
> is entirely in your hands - and feet.
>
> Ring the bell (or call out - it is certainly possible to that politely)
> if you wish to. It doesn't guarantee that the pedestrians will (still
> less must) cede priority to you. They might not even hear you, but if
> they do, they are not "commanded" by your bell. I'm sure we agree on
> that. And neither are you entitled to break the law if miffed by their
> failure - for whatever reason - to obey you.
> > I ask because I use such a path on my morning commute and occasionally come up behind a couple of joggers. One of which is clearly blind because they are holding hands with a white baton. I give a 'ding' they say thank you and I say good morning.
> No problem in those circumstances. I am certainly not opposed to the use
> of bicycle bells. The problem arises when the pedestrians do not respond
> to the bell (as, indeed, they are not obliged to). In such
> circumstances, and where there is no lateral space to pass safely
> (that's safely for the pedestrians), slowing down and/or stopping is the
> only lawful recourse you have.
>
> Just hang back.
>
> Wait for a safe place to overtake.
>
> That's good advice for all wheeled road-users, isn't it?

'On Friday night we did the town, we turned the goalposts upside down. We will have these moments to remember'.