John Williamson said:
> On 05/01/2022 14:32, Chris Elvidge wrote:
>> On 05/01/2022 11:18, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
>>> My https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/uk/bristol
>>> lookup says it (sunrise) is stuck at 8:15 here.
>>>
>>> Ah no! It was a minute eralier today! Hurrah!
>>>
>>
>> Is that Bristol or GMT?
>>
> Railway time. HTH.

Cancelled ?

--
Richard Robinson
"The whole plan hinged upon the natural curiosity of potatoes" - S. Lem

My email address is at http://qualmograph.org.uk/contact.html

Kerr-Mudd, John said:
> On Wed, 5 Jan 2022 14:32:16 +0000 Chris Elvidge <chris@mshome.net>
> wrote:
>> On 05/01/2022 11:18, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
>> > Tease'n'Seize <tease-and-seize@invalid> wrote:
>> >> Peter wrote:
>> >>> Tease'n'Seize wrote:
>> >>>> Peter wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> days should be getting longer, if you believe that sort of
>> >>>>> thing.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> sunrises still getting later for another week or more, thobut
>> >>>> </gloom>
>> >>>
>> >>> That's OK, longer in bed in the morning, innit.
>> >>
>> >> Some photons managed to get past the bedroom curtings before 9am
>> >> today, I suspect that was to do with fewer clouds, rather than
>> >> shifting the earth's axis ...
>> >>
>> > My https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/uk/bristol lookup says it
>> > (sunrise) is stuck at 8:15 here.
>> >
>> > Ah no! It was a minute eralier today! Hurrah!
>> >
>>
>> Is that Bristol or GMT?
>>
> Ah Bristol is 10 minutes off London, even by GWR.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Exchange,_Bristol#Clock

Is there LNER time, than ?

> I picked Bristol just for an approx latitude, not longitude.
>
>

--
Richard Robinson
"The whole plan hinged upon the natural curiosity of potatoes" - S. Lem

My email address is at http://qualmograph.org.uk/contact.html

On 06/01/2022 11:50, Richard Robinson wrote:
> Kerr-Mudd, John said:
>> On Wed, 5 Jan 2022 14:32:16 +0000 Chris Elvidge <chris@mshome.net>
>>> Is that Bristol or GMT?
>>>
>> Ah Bristol is 10 minutes off London, even by GWR.
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Exchange,_Bristol#Clock
>
> Is there LNER time, than ?
>
There used to be, yes. Each railway company had their own "master clock"
at the London terminus, and station clocks were checked against a watch
set to match it and carried by the guard on a specified train every day.
(I'd guess the first stopping down train, BICBW.) Guards checked and set
their watches at least daily, as they were the ones who told the driver
and station staff when the train would start moving. Guard's watches
were among the best that could be bought and were the property of the
railway company.

I'm not sure how the companies got their reference time. Possibly a guy
with a watch in a cab from Greenwich once a week?

When they introduced telegraphs and telephones, it all got a lot easier.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On Thu, 6 Jan 2022 15:16:07 +0000, John Williamson
<johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> wrote:

>On 06/01/2022 11:50, Richard Robinson wrote:
>> Kerr-Mudd, John said:
>>> On Wed, 5 Jan 2022 14:32:16 +0000 Chris Elvidge <chris@mshome.net>
>>>> Is that Bristol or GMT?
>>>>
>>> Ah Bristol is 10 minutes off London, even by GWR.
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Exchange,_Bristol#Clock
>>
>> Is there LNER time, than ?
>>
>There used to be, yes. Each railway company had their own "master clock"
>at the London terminus, and station clocks were checked against a watch
>set to match it and carried by the guard on a specified train every day.
>(I'd guess the first stopping down train, BICBW.) Guards checked and set
>their watches at least daily, as they were the ones who told the driver
>and station staff when the train would start moving. Guard's watches
>were among the best that could be bought and were the property of the
>railway company.
>
>I'm not sure how the companies got their reference time. Possibly a guy
>with a watch in a cab from Greenwich once a week?
>
>When they introduced telegraphs and telephones, it all got a lot easier.

Completely without any evidence whatsoever, my money would initially
be on the Greenwich time ball. Intended for shipping, I'd bet that the
London skyline was so different in those days that it could be seen
from plenty of other places too. Excavated ovine, all these
developments came in such a short time of each other (passenger
railways, 1820s; time ball 1830s; electric telegraph 1840s) that by
1850 or thereabouts I doubt if it would have made much difference
anyway. When did universal railway time begin?

Nick

On 06/01/2022 15:16, John Williamson wrote:
> On 06/01/2022 11:50, Richard Robinson wrote:
>> Kerr-Mudd, John said:
>>> On Wed, 5 Jan 2022 14:32:16 +0000 Chris Elvidge <chris@mshome.net>
>>>> Is that Bristol or GMT?
>>>>
>>> Ah Bristol is 10 minutes off London, even by GWR.
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Exchange,_Bristol#Clock
>>
>> Is there LNER time, than ?
>>
> There used to be, yes. Each railway company had their own "master clock"
> at the London terminus, and station clocks were checked against a watch
> set to match it and carried by the guard on a specified train every day.
> (I'd guess the first stopping down train, BICBW.) Guards checked and set
> their watches at least daily, as they were the ones who told the driver
> and station staff when the train would start moving. Guard's watches
> were among the best that could be bought and were the property of the
> railway company.
>
> I'm not sure how the companies got their reference time. Possibly a guy
> with a watch in a cab from Greenwich once a week?

No, it was probably the Greenwich Time Lady - who did quite literally go
round every week with the correct time. Twas on telly the other night -
some old episode of QI - she didn't retire until the age of about 86,
after inheriting the family business from her father. She retired during
the blitz cos it got too dangerous!

HTH, Chris

On 06/01/2022 17:03, Nick Odell wrote:

> Completely without any evidence whatsoever, my money would initially
> be on the Greenwich time ball. Intended for shipping, I'd bet that the
> London skyline was so different in those days that it could be seen
> from plenty of other places too.

There's a chuffing great hill in the way, with a rather large cathedral
on top, then another one just North of the Tower of London, so the only
terminus you could see the ball from might have been London Bridge. The
site of the Greenwich observatory was chosen partly due to it being so
far from the bright lights of London, and partly for its very good
visibility from the river. It was also on land owned by the guy that
set it up.

The ball was the official primary reference for everyone, in the same
way the BBC and others now use the pips. Even the GPS satellite clocks
and the pips on the radio are secondary sources. The one o'clock ball's
timing was checked using a sextant or similar at the observatory to
check the highest point of the sun's traverse at noon.

Excavated ovine, all these
> developments came in such a short time of each other (passenger
> railways, 1820s; time ball 1830s; electric telegraph 1840s) that by
> 1850 or thereabouts I doubt if it would have made much difference
> anyway. When did universal railway time begin?
>
I'm not sure of the dates, but it was introduced after a series of
collisions when it was found that a train had left Bristol on time,
using local solar time for Bristol, then met a train coming from London,
which was running on London solar time, which was about five minutes
ahead of Bristol.. Oops.

It didn't take them long to introduce token block working, which is
still used in some places. Once that became universal, exact train times
became less important.

L.T.C. Rolt's 1955 book "Red for Danger" is a very good reference to the
early dangers of rail travel and how they got round them.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On 06/01/2022 17:40, John Williamson wrote:
> L.T.C. Rolt's 1955 book "Red for Danger" is a very good reference to the
> early dangers of rail travel and how they got round them.

Indeed it is; I commend it to anysheddi with an interest in same. The
later edition, with additional material by G. Kichenside, covers some
more accidents, including the Moorgate accident of 28 February 1975.

--
Regards,
Andrew.

On 06/01/2022 17:16, ChrisND@privacy.net wrote:
> On 06/01/2022 15:16, John Williamson wrote:
>> On 06/01/2022 11:50, Richard Robinson wrote:
>>> Kerr-Mudd, John said:
>>>> On Wed, 5 Jan 2022 14:32:16 +0000 Chris Elvidge <chris@mshome.net>
>>>>> Is that Bristol or GMT?
>>>>>
>>>> Ah Bristol is 10 minutes off London, even by GWR.
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Exchange,_Bristol#Clock
>>>
>>> Is there LNER time, than ?
>>>
>> There used to be, yes. Each railway company had their own "master
>> clock" at the London terminus, and station clocks were checked against
>> a watch set to match it and carried by the guard on a specified train
>> every day. (I'd guess the first stopping down train, BICBW.) Guards
>> checked and set their watches at least daily, as they were the ones
>> who told the driver and station staff when the train would start
>> moving. Guard's watches were among the best that could be bought and
>> were the property of the railway company.
>>
>> I'm not sure how the companies got their reference time. Possibly a
>> guy with a watch in a cab from Greenwich once a week?
>
> No, it was probably the Greenwich Time Lady - who did quite literally go
> round every week with the correct time. Twas on telly the other night -
> some old episode of QI - she didn't retire until the age of about 86,
> after inheriting the family business from her father. She retired during
> the blitz cos it got too dangerous!
>
> HTH, Chris
<Presses "like" button> Thanks for that.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

ChrisND@privacy.net said:
> On 06/01/2022 15:16, John Williamson wrote:
>>
>> I'm not sure how the companies got their reference time. Possibly a guy
>> with a watch in a cab from Greenwich once a week?
>
> No, it was probably the Greenwich Time Lady - who did quite literally go
> round every week with the correct time.

On a piece of paper ?

--
Richard Robinson
"The whole plan hinged upon the natural curiosity of potatoes" - S. Lem

My email address is at http://qualmograph.org.uk/contact.html

In article <PM2dnZ3k6-Fw6UT8nZ2dnUU78RvNnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>, Richard
Robinson <richardR@privacy.net> on Sat, 8 Jan 2022 at 05:26:37 awoke
Nicholas from his slumbers and wrote
>ChrisND@privacy.net said:
>> On 06/01/2022 15:16, John Williamson wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm not sure how the companies got their reference time. Possibly a guy
>>> with a watch in a cab from Greenwich once a week?
>>
>> No, it was probably the Greenwich Time Lady - who did quite literally go
>> round every week with the correct time.
>
>On a piece of paper ?
>
"You weren't in at 11:03:21 so I left you the time on this piece of
paper at 11:03:22

11:03:23
11:03:24?"
--
0sterc@tcher -

"Où sont les neiges d'antan?"

On 09/01/2022 11:43, Nicholas D. Richards wrote:
> In article <PM2dnZ3k6-Fw6UT8nZ2dnUU78RvNnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>, Richard
> Robinson <richardR@privacy.net> on Sat, 8 Jan 2022 at 05:26:37 awoke
> Nicholas from his slumbers and wrote
>> ChrisND@privacy.net said:
>>> On 06/01/2022 15:16, John Williamson wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I'm not sure how the companies got their reference time. Possibly a guy
>>>> with a watch in a cab from Greenwich once a week?
>>>
>>> No, it was probably the Greenwich Time Lady - who did quite literally go
>>> round every week with the correct time.
>>
>> On a piece of paper ?
>>
> "You weren't in at 11:03:21 so I left you the time on this piece of
> paper at 11:03:22
>
> 11:03:23
> 11:03:24?"

What time is it Eccles?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tjHlFPTwVk

Tone

Nicholas D. Richards said:
> In article <PM2dnZ3k6-Fw6UT8nZ2dnUU78RvNnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>, Richard
> Robinson <richardR@privacy.net> on Sat, 8 Jan 2022 at 05:26:37 awoke
> Nicholas from his slumbers and wrote
>>ChrisND@privacy.net said:
>>> On 06/01/2022 15:16, John Williamson wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I'm not sure how the companies got their reference time. Possibly a guy
>>>> with a watch in a cab from Greenwich once a week?
>>>
>>> No, it was probably the Greenwich Time Lady - who did quite literally go
>>> round every week with the correct time.
>>
>>On a piece of paper ?
>>
> "You weren't in at 11:03:21 so I left you the time on this piece of
> paper at 11:03:22
>
> 11:03:23
> 11:03:24?"

Sorry, I didn't have the time to read it.

--
Richard Robinson
"The whole plan hinged upon the natural curiosity of potatoes" - S. Lem

My email address is at http://qualmograph.org.uk/contact.html

On 08/01/2022 11:26, Richard Robinson wrote:
> ChrisND@privacy.net said:
>> On 06/01/2022 15:16, John Williamson wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm not sure how the companies got their reference time. Possibly a guy
>>> with a watch in a cab from Greenwich once a week?
>>
>> No, it was probably the Greenwich Time Lady - who did quite literally go
>> round every week with the correct time.
>
> On a piece of paper ?
>
This explains all:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruth_Belville

C