Hi,

September 15 is officially B of B day, including in Australia
81 years after the most important air battle in history.

You may have seen the famous 1968 movie, full of popular UK actors like Trevor Howard and Michael Caine etc.
But this vid shows the real thing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lo2jqHIBJZk

Old, faded film from 16mm gun cameras mounted in the wings of Spits & Hurricanes - including pilots names, dates and German types targeted during the actual battle.

Just some of "the few".

...... Phil

On Tue, 14 Sep 2021 23:17:24 -0700 (PDT), Phil Allison posted:-

> Hi,
>
> September 15 is officially B of B day, including in Australia
> 81 years after the most important air battle in history.
>
> You may have seen the famous 1968 movie, full of popular UK actors
> like Trevor Howard and Michael Caine etc. But this vid shows the real
> thing:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lo2jqHIBJZk
>
> Old, faded film from 16mm gun cameras mounted in the wings of Spits &
> Hurricanes - including pilots names, dates and German types
> targeted during the actual battle.
>
> Just some of "the few".
>
>
> ..... Phil
>

Thanks for posting. Interestingly some of the pilots were low ranked.
Flight Sergeant etc.

On 15/09/2021 7:07 pm, Mountain Magpie wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Sep 2021 23:17:24 -0700 (PDT), Phil Allison posted:-
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> September 15 is officially B of B day, including in Australia
>> 81 years after the most important air battle in history.
>>
>> You may have seen the famous 1968 movie, full of popular UK actors
>> like Trevor Howard and Michael Caine etc. But this vid shows the real
>> thing:
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lo2jqHIBJZk
>>
>> Old, faded film from 16mm gun cameras mounted in the wings of Spits &
>> Hurricanes - including pilots names, dates and German types
>> targeted during the actual battle.
>>
>> Just some of "the few".
>>
>>
>> ..... Phil
>>
>
> Thanks for posting. Interestingly some of the pilots were low ranked.
> Flight Sergeant etc.
>
Some were teenagers too possibly with only 40 odd hours flying experience.

Phil Allison wrote:
---------------------------
> Hi,
>
> September 15 is officially B of B day, including in Australia
> 81 years after the most important air battle in history.
>
> You may have seen the famous 1968 movie, full of popular UK actors like Trevor Howard and Michael Caine etc.
> But this vid shows the real thing:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lo2jqHIBJZk
>
> Old, faded film from 16mm gun cameras mounted in the wings of Spits & Hurricanes - including pilots names, dates and German types targeted during the actual battle.
>
> Just some of "the few".
>

** Here is one of them - 19 at the time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t71EYOUgS00

Passed recently, at age 96.

..... Phil

keithr0 <user@account.invalid> wrote
> Mountain Magpie wrote
>> Phil Allison wrote

>>> September 15 is officially B of B day, including in Australia
>>> 81 years after the most important air battle in history.
>>>
>>> You may have seen the famous 1968 movie, full of popular UK actors
>>> like Trevor Howard and Michael Caine etc. But this vid shows the real
>>> thing:
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lo2jqHIBJZk
>>>
>>> Old, faded film from 16mm gun cameras mounted in the wings of Spits &
>>> Hurricanes - including pilots names, dates and German types
>>> targeted during the actual battle.
>>>
>>> Just some of "the few".
>>
>> Thanks for posting. Interestingly some of the pilots were low ranked.
>> Flight Sergeant etc.
>>
> Some were teenagers too possibly with only 40 odd hours flying experience.

Yeah, the turnover rate was surprisingly high.

Plenty didn’t last very long at all, not surprising with that little
experience.

On Thu, 16 Sep 2021 05:46:46 +1000, Rod Speed posted:-

> keithr0 <user@account.invalid> wrote
> > Mountain Magpie wrote
> >> Phil Allison wrote
>
> >>> September 15 is officially B of B day, including in Australia
> >>> 81 years after the most important air battle in history.
> >>>
> >>> You may have seen the famous 1968 movie, full of popular UK actors
> >>> like Trevor Howard and Michael Caine etc. But this vid shows the
> >>> real thing:
> >>>
> >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lo2jqHIBJZk
> >>>
> >>> Old, faded film from 16mm gun cameras mounted in the wings of
> >>> Spits & Hurricanes - including pilots names, dates and German
> >>> types targeted during the actual battle.
> >>>
> >>> Just some of "the few".
> >>
> >> Thanks for posting. Interestingly some of the pilots were low
> >> ranked. Flight Sergeant etc.
> >>
> > Some were teenagers too possibly with only 40 odd hours flying
> > experience.
>
> Yeah, the turnover rate was surprisingly high.
>
> Plenty didn’t last very long at all, not surprising with that little
> experience.
>

My Uncle was on the bombers as a radio operator, survived fortunately
except with a crushed right hand.

Must have been a shit time for all.

On Thursday, 16 September 2021 at 6:58:13 am UTC+10, Mountain Magpie wrote:
> On Thu, 16 Sep 2021 05:46:46 +1000, Rod Speed posted:-
> > keithr0 <us...@account.invalid> wrote
> > > Mountain Magpie wrote
> > >> Phil Allison wrote
> >
> > >>> September 15 is officially B of B day, including in Australia
> > >>> 81 years after the most important air battle in history.
> > >>>
> > >>> You may have seen the famous 1968 movie, full of popular UK actors
> > >>> like Trevor Howard and Michael Caine etc. But this vid shows the
> > >>> real thing:
> > >>>
> > >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lo2jqHIBJZk
> > >>>
> > >>> Old, faded film from 16mm gun cameras mounted in the wings of
> > >>> Spits & Hurricanes - including pilots names, dates and German
> > >>> types targeted during the actual battle.
> > >>>
> > >>> Just some of "the few".
> > >>
> > >> Thanks for posting. Interestingly some of the pilots were low
> > >> ranked. Flight Sergeant etc.
> > >>
> > > Some were teenagers too possibly with only 40 odd hours flying
> > > experience.
> >
> > Yeah, the turnover rate was surprisingly high.
> >
> > Plenty didn’t last very long at all, not surprising with that little
> > experience.
> >
> My Uncle was on the bombers as a radio operator, survived fortunately
> except with a crushed right hand.
>
>
>Must have been a shit time for all.
Agreed. My Dad was a Nav on Wellingtons (RAAF but on an RAF squadron) but I hardly heard anything of his wartime experiences in the subsequent 60-odd subsequent years. PTSD was not a 'thing' back then. The response was generally 'Suck it up, or be charged with LMF'.

On 16/09/2021 6:56 am, Mountain Magpie wrote:
> On Thu, 16 Sep 2021 05:46:46 +1000, Rod Speed posted:-
>
>> keithr0 <user@account.invalid> wrote
>>> Mountain Magpie wrote
>>>> Phil Allison wrote
>>
>>>>> September 15 is officially B of B day, including in Australia
>>>>> 81 years after the most important air battle in history.
>>>>>
>>>>> You may have seen the famous 1968 movie, full of popular UK actors
>>>>> like Trevor Howard and Michael Caine etc. But this vid shows the
>>>>> real thing:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lo2jqHIBJZk
>>>>>
>>>>> Old, faded film from 16mm gun cameras mounted in the wings of
>>>>> Spits & Hurricanes - including pilots names, dates and German
>>>>> types targeted during the actual battle.
>>>>>
>>>>> Just some of "the few".
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for posting. Interestingly some of the pilots were low
>>>> ranked. Flight Sergeant etc.
>>>>
>>> Some were teenagers too possibly with only 40 odd hours flying
>>> experience.
>>
>> Yeah, the turnover rate was surprisingly high.
>>
>> Plenty didn’t last very long at all, not surprising with that little
>> experience.

Not often recognised are the ones that never made it to the battle, the
accident rate in training was dreadful too.

> My Uncle was on the bombers as a radio operator, survived fortunately
> except with a crushed right hand.
>
> Must have been a shit time for all.

My best friend at primary school puzzled me at the time because his
surname was different from the rest of the family. Later I found out
that his father had nursed a badly damaged Wellington back to base, but
wasn't able to land it safely. His mother had re-married a huge scotsman
who was a piper in the black Watch and had been in battles against the
Japs armed with nothing but his pipes (apparently, they scared the Japs
shitless). The poor bastard was invalided back with malaria, I remember
him shivering under a blanket on a cold English winters day.

keithratbag Pommy Idiot wrote:
========================>>
> >> Yeah, the turnover rate was surprisingly high.
> >> Plenty didn’t last very long at all, not surprising with that little
> >> experience.
>>
> Not often recognised are the ones that never made it to the battle, the
> accident rate in training was dreadful too.

** But no where near the shocking peacetime fatality rate of the Meteor.

From the Wiki:

" A total of 890 Meteors were lost in RAF service (145 of these crashes occurring in 1953 alone), resulting in the deaths of 450 pilots. Contributory factors in the number of crashes were the poor brakes, failure of the landing gear, the high fuel consumption and consequent short flight endurance (less than one hour) causing pilots to run out of fuel, and difficult handling with one engine out due to the widely set engines. The casualty rate was exacerbated by the lack of ejection seats in early series Meteors;[97] the much higher speed that the aircraft was capable of meant that to bail out pilots might have to overcome high g forces and fast-moving airflow past the cockpit; there was also a greater likelihood of the pilot striking the horizontal tailplane. "

The figures are for RAF service alone, waaay more if you add in all the foreign users.
The RAAF had over 100.

BTW

Was the very first jet I ever saw flying.
Me about 5 years old - a few miles from home in Shepparton.
A pair flew *right over* our parked car and landed at a staging airport on the way the Laverton.
* right over = about 30 feet.

...... Phil

Phil Allison wrote:
---------------------------
>
> Was the very first jet I ever saw flying.
> Me about 5 years old - a few miles from home in Shepparton.
> A pair flew *right over* our parked car and landed at a staging airport on the way the Laverton.
> * right over = about 30 feet.
>

** See HD pic of RAAF Meteor like the one mentioned above:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7d/Gloster_Meteor_A77-871_WK791_F8_-_RAAF_Base_Wagga_%2801%29.jpg

.... Phil

keithr0 <user@account.invalid> wrote
> Mountain Magpie wrote
>> Rod Speed wrote
>>> keithr0 <user@account.invalid> wrote
>>>> Mountain Magpie wrote
>>>>> Phil Allison wrote
>>>
>>>>>> September 15 is officially B of B day, including in Australia
>>>>>> 81 years after the most important air battle in history.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You may have seen the famous 1968 movie, full of popular UK actors
>>>>>> like Trevor Howard and Michael Caine etc. But this vid shows the
>>>>>> real thing:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lo2jqHIBJZk
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Old, faded film from 16mm gun cameras mounted in the wings of
>>>>>> Spits & Hurricanes - including pilots names, dates and German
>>>>>> types targeted during the actual battle.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just some of "the few".
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for posting. Interestingly some of the pilots were low
>>>>> ranked. Flight Sergeant etc.
>>>>>
>>>> Some were teenagers too possibly with only 40 odd hours flying
>>>> experience.
>>>
>>> Yeah, the turnover rate was surprisingly high.
>>>
>>> Plenty didn’t last very long at all, not surprising with that little
>>> experience.
>
> Not often recognised are the ones that never made it to the battle, the
> accident rate in training was dreadful too.
>
>> My Uncle was on the bombers as a radio operator, survived fortunately
>> except with a crushed right hand.
>>
>> Must have been a shit time for all.
>
> My best friend at primary school puzzled me at the time because his
> surname was different from the rest of the family. Later I found out that
> his father had nursed a badly damaged Wellington back to base, but wasn't
> able to land it safely. His mother had re-married a huge scotsman who was
> a piper in the black Watch and had been in battles against the Japs armed
> with nothing but his pipes (apparently, they scared the Japs shitless).

Mindless bullshit.

> The poor bastard was invalided back with malaria, I remember him shivering
> under a blanket on a cold English winters day.

On 16/09/2021 4:40 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
> keithr0 <user@account.invalid> wrote
>> Mountain Magpie wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>> keithr0 <user@account.invalid> wrote
>>>>> Mountain Magpie wrote
>>>>>> Phil Allison wrote
>>>>
>>>>>>> September 15  is officially B of B day, including in Australia
>>>>>>> 81 years after the most important air battle in history.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You may have seen the famous 1968 movie, full of popular UK actors
>>>>>>> like Trevor Howard and Michael Caine etc. But this vid shows the
>>>>>>> real thing:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lo2jqHIBJZk
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Old, faded film from 16mm gun cameras mounted in the wings of
>>>>>>> Spits & Hurricanes  -   including pilots names, dates and German
>>>>>>> types targeted during the actual battle.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just some of  "the few".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks for posting.  Interestingly some of the pilots were low
>>>>>> ranked. Flight Sergeant etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Some were teenagers too possibly with only 40 odd hours flying
>>>>> experience.
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, the turnover rate was surprisingly high.
>>>>
>>>> Plenty didn’t last very long at all, not surprising with that little
>>>> experience.
>>
>> Not often recognised are the ones that never made it to the battle,
>> the accident rate in training was dreadful too.
>>
>>> My Uncle was on the bombers as a radio operator, survived fortunately
>>> except with a crushed right hand.
>>>
>>> Must have been a shit time for all.
>>
>> My best friend at primary school puzzled me at the time because his
>> surname was different from the rest of the family. Later I found out
>> that his father had nursed a badly damaged Wellington back to base,
>> but wasn't able to land it safely. His mother had re-married a huge
>> scotsman who was a piper in the black Watch and had been in battles
>> against the Japs armed with nothing but his pipes (apparently, they
>> scared the Japs shitless).
>
> Mindless bullshit.

How the fuck would you know?

>> The poor bastard was invalided back with malaria, I remember him
>> shivering under a blanket on a cold English winters day.
>
>

On 16/09/2021 4:02 pm, Phil Allison (total wanker) wrote:
> keithratbag Pommy Idiot wrote:
> =========================
>>>
>>>> Yeah, the turnover rate was surprisingly high.
>>>> Plenty didn’t last very long at all, not surprising with that little
>>>> experience.
>>>
>> Not often recognised are the ones that never made it to the battle, the
>> accident rate in training was dreadful too.
>
> ** But no where near the shocking peacetime fatality rate of the Meteor.
>
> From the Wiki:
>
> " A total of 890 Meteors were lost in RAF service (145 of these crashes occurring in 1953 alone), resulting in the deaths of 450 pilots. Contributory factors in the number of crashes were the poor brakes, failure of the landing gear, the high fuel consumption and consequent short flight endurance (less than one hour) causing pilots to run out of fuel, and difficult handling with one engine out due to the widely set engines. The casualty rate was exacerbated by the lack of ejection seats in early series Meteors;[97] the much higher speed that the aircraft was capable of meant that to bail out pilots might have to overcome high g forces and fast-moving airflow past the cockpit; there was also a greater likelihood of the pilot striking the horizontal tailplane. "

That is, of course, out of almost 4000 built.

> The figures are for RAF service alone, waaay more if you add in all the foreign users.
> The RAAF had over 100.
>
> BTW
>
> Was the very first jet I ever saw flying.
> Me about 5 years old - a few miles from home in Shepparton.
> A pair flew *right over* our parked car and landed at a staging airport on the way the Laverton.
> * right over = about 30 feet.

I've actually flown in one. A very old T7, so old that it didn't have
ejector seats, the pilot went through the bail out procedure but I'd
reckon that bending over and kissing your arse goodbye would have been
just as effective. Aerobatics in a jet are interesting.

keithr0 <user@account.invalid> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> keithr0 <user@account.invalid> wrote
>>> Mountain Magpie wrote
>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>> keithr0 <user@account.invalid> wrote
>>>>>> Mountain Magpie wrote
>>>>>>> Phil Allison wrote
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> September 15 is officially B of B day, including in Australia
>>>>>>>> 81 years after the most important air battle in history.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You may have seen the famous 1968 movie, full of popular UK actors
>>>>>>>> like Trevor Howard and Michael Caine etc. But this vid shows the
>>>>>>>> real thing:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lo2jqHIBJZk
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Old, faded film from 16mm gun cameras mounted in the wings of
>>>>>>>> Spits & Hurricanes - including pilots names, dates and German
>>>>>>>> types targeted during the actual battle.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Just some of "the few".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks for posting. Interestingly some of the pilots were low
>>>>>>> ranked. Flight Sergeant etc.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Some were teenagers too possibly with only 40 odd hours flying
>>>>>> experience.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yeah, the turnover rate was surprisingly high.
>>>>>
>>>>> Plenty didn’t last very long at all, not surprising with that little
>>>>> experience.
>>>
>>> Not often recognised are the ones that never made it to the battle, the
>>> accident rate in training was dreadful too.
>>>
>>>> My Uncle was on the bombers as a radio operator, survived fortunately
>>>> except with a crushed right hand.
>>>>
>>>> Must have been a shit time for all.
>>>
>>> My best friend at primary school puzzled me at the time because his
>>> surname was different from the rest of the family. Later I found out
>>> that his father had nursed a badly damaged Wellington back to base, but
>>> wasn't able to land it safely. His mother had re-married a huge scotsman
>>> who was a piper in the black Watch and had been in battles against the
>>> Japs armed with nothing but his pipes (apparently, they scared the Japs
>>> shitless).
>>
>> Mindless bullshit.

> How the fuck would you know?

If that actually ever happened, it would have been widely
reported and widely used and neither ever happened.

Its as mindlessly silly as the other stupid claim
that none of the japs could see in the dark.

>>> The poor bastard was invalided back with malaria, I remember him
>>> shivering under a blanket on a cold English winters day.

SBS is showing a 3 part series on the BoB. First episode next Saturday
at 19:30

keithr0 wrote:
============
>
> SBS is showing a 3 part series on the BoB. First episode next Saturday
> at 19:30

** Knowing the BBC - it will be mainly "social history ".

Probably discover a few black pilots and WAAF plotters.
No sign of Churchill - cos he was a " racist".

....... Phil

On Sun, 19 Sep 2021 01:21:35 -0700 (PDT), Phil Allison posted:-

> keithr0 wrote:
> ============
> >
> > SBS is showing a 3 part series on the BoB. First episode next
> > Saturday at 19:30
>
> ** Knowing the BBC - it will be mainly "social history ".
>
> Probably discover a few black pilots and WAAF plotters.
> No sign of Churchill - cos he was a " racist".

And he smoked as well!
>
>
> ...... Phil

Mountain Magpie wrote:
=====================
Phil Allison posted:-
>
> > >
> > > SBS is showing a 3 part series on the BoB. First episode next
> > > Saturday at 19:30
> >
> > ** Knowing the BBC - it will be mainly "social history ".
> >
> > Probably discover a few black pilots and WAAF plotters.
> > No sign of Churchill - cos he was a " racist".
>
> And he smoked as well!

** Drank like a fish, too.
Hated Hitler and Stalin.

Nasty man.

..... Phil

On 19/9/21 8:39 pm, Phil Allison wrote:
> Mountain Magpie wrote:
> =====================
> Phil Allison posted:-
>>
>>>>
>>>> SBS is showing a 3 part series on the BoB. First episode next
>>>> Saturday at 19:30
>>>
>>> ** Knowing the BBC - it will be mainly "social history ".
>>>
>>> Probably discover a few black pilots and WAAF plotters.
>>> No sign of Churchill - cos he was a " racist".
>>
>> And he smoked as well!
>
> ** Drank like a fish, too.
> Hated Hitler and Stalin.
>
> Nasty man.
>

Exactly the right man to stick it up Hitler.
Did a tour of the Churchill War Rooms in London in 2016, IMHO it was
well worth the effort.

--
Daryl

Daryl wrote:
===========
>
>
> > ** Drank like a fish, too.
> > Hated Hitler and Stalin.
> >
> > Nasty man.
> >
> Exactly the right man to stick it up Hitler.
> Did a tour of the Churchill War Rooms in London in 2016, IMHO it was
> well worth the effort.
>

** One example of something Churchill did was to appoint his friend " Lord Beaverbrook " Minister of Aircraft Production.
Beaverbrook was a newspaper magante, so it looked like a strange choice.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Aitken,_1st_Baron_Beaverbrook#Second_World_War

First thing he did was arrange a meeting of the heads of various factories involved in building fighter aircraft.
The purpose was to discover what things held up production and eliminate them.
One fact stood out, ordering and payment system delays set a strict limit to production.
So he devised a NEW system:

1. Order by telephone only what you need for immediate use.
2. Supply from what you have in stock and keep records.
3. Invoice later and don't worry about payments.
4. At the end of each week submit a bill to the Treasury to cover all wages and expenses for that week.
6. That amount to be deposited in your bank the next day.

Production quickly doubled and then doubled again later as new facilities came on line, eventually reaching 100 planes a week.
The outcome was that during the B of B, the RAF were never short of planes, only pilots.

....... Phil

On 20/9/21 9:12 am, Phil Allison wrote:
> Daryl wrote:
> ===========
>>
> >
>>> ** Drank like a fish, too.
>>> Hated Hitler and Stalin.
>>>
>>> Nasty man.
>>>
>> Exactly the right man to stick it up Hitler.
>> Did a tour of the Churchill War Rooms in London in 2016, IMHO it was
>> well worth the effort.
>>
>
> ** One example of something Churchill did was to appoint his friend " Lord Beaverbrook " Minister of Aircraft Production.
> Beaverbrook was a newspaper magante, so it looked like a strange choice.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Aitken,_1st_Baron_Beaverbrook#Second_World_War
>
> First thing he did was arrange a meeting of the heads of various factories involved in building fighter aircraft.
> The purpose was to discover what things held up production and eliminate them.
> One fact stood out, ordering and payment system delays set a strict limit to production.
> So he devised a NEW system:
>
> 1. Order by telephone only what you need for immediate use.
> 2. Supply from what you have in stock and keep records.
> 3. Invoice later and don't worry about payments.
> 4. At the end of each week submit a bill to the Treasury to cover all wages and expenses for that week.
> 6. That amount to be deposited in your bank the next day.
>
> Production quickly doubled and then doubled again later as new facilities came on line, eventually reaching 100 planes a week.
> The outcome was that during the B of B, the RAF were never short of planes, only pilots.
>

I doubt that most people would have found Churchill to be likeable but
he sure got the job done.

--
Daryl

Daryl wrote:
===========
>>>
>>> Exactly the right man to stick it up Hitler.
> >> Did a tour of the Churchill War Rooms in London in 2016, IMHO it was
> >> well worth the effort.
> >>
> >
> > ** One example of something Churchill did was to appoint his friend " Lord Beaverbrook " Minister of Aircraft Production.
> > Beaverbrook was a newspaper magante, so it looked like a strange choice.
> >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Aitken,_1st_Baron_Beaverbrook#Second_World_War
> >
> > First thing he did was arrange a meeting of the heads of various factories involved in building fighter aircraft.
> > The purpose was to discover what things held up production and eliminate them.
> > One fact stood out, ordering and payment system delays set a strict limit to production.
> > So he devised a NEW system:
> >
> > 1. Order by telephone only what you need for immediate use.
> > 2. Supply from what you have in stock and keep records.
> > 3. Invoice later and don't worry about payments.
> > 4. At the end of each week submit a bill to the Treasury to cover all wages and expenses for that week.
> > 6. That amount to be deposited in your bank the next day.
> >
> > Production quickly doubled and then doubled again later as new facilities came on line, eventually reaching 100 planes a week.
> > The outcome was that during the B of B, the RAF were never short of planes, only pilots.
> >
> I doubt that most people would have found Churchill to be likeable but
> he sure got the job done.
>

** He was also aviation mad, loved to fly and " pilot" the plane if possible.

The are pics of him flying a DC3, Liberator, DH Flamingo and various flying boats during WW2, while in transit around the world.
Often these trips were at considerable risk, flying near or over German held territory.

He was treated very cruelly after the war, mostly because folk did not know what he had really done.
Much of it could not be published, due to war related secrecy, until decades later.

....... Phil

Phil Allison wrote:
====================
>
> ** He was also aviation mad, loved to fly and " pilot" the plane if possible.
>
> The are pics of him flying a DC3, Liberator, DH Flamingo and various flying boats during WW2, while in transit around the world.
> Often these trips were at considerable risk, flying near or over German held territory.
>
> He was treated very cruelly after the war, mostly because folk did not know what he had really done.
> Much of it could not be published, due to war related secrecy, until decades later.
>

** See here for a small taste:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMuw_BsfmV4

....... Phil

On Monday, 20 September 2021 at 11:15:09 am UTC+10, palli...@gmail.com wrote:
> Phil Allison wrote:
> ====================
> >
> > ** He was also aviation mad, loved to fly and " pilot" the plane if possible.
> >
> > The are pics of him flying a DC3, Liberator, DH Flamingo and various flying boats during WW2, while in transit around the world.
> > Often these trips were at considerable risk, flying near or over German held territory.
> >
> > He was treated very cruelly after the war, mostly because folk did not know what he had really done.
> > Much of it could not be published, due to war related secrecy, until decades later.
> >
> ** See here for a small taste:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMuw_BsfmV4
>
>
>
> ...... Phil

"Cometh the hour, cometh the man" would seem to apply here.

Cheers,
Magani

Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote
> Daryl wrote

>>>> Exactly the right man to stick it up Hitler.
>> >> Did a tour of the Churchill War Rooms in London in 2016, IMHO it was
>> >> well worth the effort.
>> >>
>> >
>> > ** One example of something Churchill did was to appoint his friend "
>> > Lord Beaverbrook " Minister of Aircraft Production.
>> > Beaverbrook was a newspaper magante, so it looked like a strange
>> > choice.
>> >
>> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Aitken,_1st_Baron_Beaverbrook#Second_World_War
>> >
>> > First thing he did was arrange a meeting of the heads of various
>> > factories involved in building fighter aircraft.
>> > The purpose was to discover what things held up production and
>> > eliminate them.
>> > One fact stood out, ordering and payment system delays set a strict
>> > limit to production.
>> > So he devised a NEW system:
>> >
>> > 1. Order by telephone only what you need for immediate use.
>> > 2. Supply from what you have in stock and keep records.
>> > 3. Invoice later and don't worry about payments.
>> > 4. At the end of each week submit a bill to the Treasury to cover all
>> > wages and expenses for that week.
>> > 6. That amount to be deposited in your bank the next day.
>> >
>> > Production quickly doubled and then doubled again later as new
>> > facilities came on line, eventually reaching 100 planes a week.
>> > The outcome was that during the B of B, the RAF were never short of
>> > planes, only pilots.
>> >
>> I doubt that most people would have found Churchill to be likeable but
>> he sure got the job done.
>>
>
> ** He was also aviation mad, loved to fly and " pilot" the plane if
> possible.

> The are pics of him flying a DC3, Liberator, DH Flamingo and various
> flying boats during WW2, while in transit around the world.

Bet they were never actually stupid enough to let him land anything.

> Often these trips were at considerable risk, flying near or over German
> held territory.

But they never let him fly one with the enemy shooting at the plane either.

> He was treated very cruelly after the war, mostly
> because folk did not know what he had really done.

Nope because they didn’t trust him to not fuck things up in peace time.

> Much of it could not be published, due
> to war related secrecy, until decades later.

Doesn’t explain why they had him back when they decided that Attlee had gone
far too far with socialist crap.

>
>
> ...... Phil
>