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aus+uk / aus.aviation / Re: 737 MAX: Ten Mistakes

SubjectAuthor
* 737 MAX: Ten MistakesPhil Allison
`* Re: 737 MAX: Ten MistakesRod Speed
 `* Re: 737 MAX: Ten MistakesPhil Allison
  `* Re: 737 MAX: Ten MistakesRod Speed
   +* Re: 737 MAX: Ten MistakesDavid Lesher
   |`- Re: 737 MAX: Ten MistakesPhil Allison
   `* Re: 737 MAX: Ten MistakesDaryl
    +* Re: 737 MAX: Ten MistakesPhil Allison
    |`* Re: 737 MAX: Ten MistakesDaryl
    | `- Re: 737 MAX: Ten MistakesPhil Allison
    `* Re: 737 MAX: Ten MistakesRod Speed
     +* Re: 737 MAX: Ten MistakesDaryl
     |`- Re: 737 MAX: Ten MistakesRod Speed
     `* Re: 737 MAX: Ten Mistakeskeithr0
      `- Re: 737 MAX: Ten MistakesPhil Allison

1
737 MAX: Ten Mistakes

<ffa92a30-f079-4636-8518-e380731d2265n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: 737 MAX: Ten Mistakes
From: palliso...@gmail.com (Phil Allison)
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 by: Phil Allison - Mon, 20 Sep 2021 07:54 UTC

Hi,

on SBS TV tonight, at 7:30.

New doco series on the 737 Max fiasco.

....... Phil

Re: 737 MAX: Ten Mistakes

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From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: 737 MAX: Ten Mistakes
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2021 19:36:56 +1000
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 by: Rod Speed - Tue, 21 Sep 2021 09:36 UTC

Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote

> on SBS TV tonight, at 7:30.

> New doco series on the 737 Max fiasco.

Single doco in fact.

Nothing special, complete unknowns saying nothing new.

Suspiciously scripted with lots of "nose dive" and "climbing onto the plane"
that no real expert would ever say today.

Re: 737 MAX: Ten Mistakes

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Subject: Re: 737 MAX: Ten Mistakes
From: palliso...@gmail.com (Phil Allison)
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 by: Phil Allison - Tue, 21 Sep 2021 09:45 UTC

Fuckwit Rod Ex-Speed Prick wrote:
=============================
>
> > on SBS TV tonight, at 7:30.
>
> > New doco series on the 737 Max fiasco.
> Single doco in fact.

https://tvblackbox.com.au/page/2021/09/20/new-documentary-series-reveals-the-10-mistakes-of-the-boeing-737-max/

> Nothing special, complete unknowns saying nothing new.

** Same as your style.
> Suspiciously scripted with lots of "nose dive" and "climbing onto the plane"

** Unimportant.

The visuals and details were very good.
Really hammered the level of corrupt & criminal behavior by Boeing.

....... Phil

Re: 737 MAX: Ten Mistakes

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From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: 737 MAX: Ten Mistakes
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2021 03:55:25 +1000
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 by: Rod Speed - Tue, 21 Sep 2021 17:55 UTC

Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote

>>> on SBS TV tonight, at 7:30.

>>> New doco series on the 737 Max fiasco.

>> Single doco in fact.

> https://tvblackbox.com.au/page/2021/09/20/new-documentary-series-reveals-the-10-mistakes-of-the-boeing-737-max/

Some fool fucks up.
https://www.sbs.com.au/guide/day/2021-09-20/location/NSW/sublocation/Sydney#/program/26848872

>> Nothing special, complete unknowns saying nothing new.

>> Suspiciously scripted with lots of "nose dive" and "climbing onto the
>> plane"

> The visuals and details were very good.

Not really. Just a very minor mention right at the end of the
real problem, using just a single angle of attack sensor with
no way for the system to determine if its reading was valid.

> Really hammered the level of corrupt & criminal behavior by Boeing.

More mindless bullshit, your trademark.

Re: 737 MAX: Ten Mistakes

<siditk$ncv$1@reader1.panix.com>

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From: wb8...@panix.com (David Lesher)
Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: 737 MAX: Ten Mistakes
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2021 21:30:28 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: David Lesher - Tue, 21 Sep 2021 21:30 UTC

<https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/criminal-indictment-imminent-for-former-boeing-737-max-chief-technical-pilot-report-says>

[Note: Seattle times blocks browsers not allowing JavaScript, but it allows lynx.]

Federal prosecutors plan to criminally indict Mark Forkner, the
former Boeing 737 Chief Technical Pilot who is alleged to have
deceived aviation regulators and airlines about a critical new
flight control system on the 737 MAX, the Wall Street Journal
reported Friday.

Bringing Forkner to trial could shed more light on why the flaws
in the MAX flight controls that killed 346 people in two crashes
were overlooked during certification.

....

{I'd say concealed vs "overlooked" but....}
--
A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close..........................
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

Re: 737 MAX: Ten Mistakes

<944f7fc1-aa7d-42a7-9e85-9cb42ae215d3n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: 737 MAX: Ten Mistakes
From: palliso...@gmail.com (Phil Allison)
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 by: Phil Allison - Tue, 21 Sep 2021 22:03 UTC

David Lesher wrote:
================
>
<https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/criminal-indictment-imminent-for-former-boeing-737-max-chief-technical-pilot-report-says>
>
>
> Federal prosecutors plan to criminally indict Mark Forkner, the
> former Boeing 737 Chief Technical Pilot who is alleged to have
> deceived aviation regulators and airlines about a critical new
> flight control system on the 737 MAX, the Wall Street Journal
> reported Friday.
>

** Very obliging fellow, did exactly what his ( criminal ) employers at Boeing wanted and even more.

Self certification like self regulation is a sick joke - means you have open slather to commit fraud.

....... Phil

Re: 737 MAX: Ten Mistakes

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From: dwalf...@westpine.com.au (Daryl)
Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: 737 MAX: Ten Mistakes
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2021 09:49:46 +1000
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 by: Daryl - Tue, 21 Sep 2021 23:49 UTC

On 22/9/21 3:55 am, Rod Speed wrote:
> Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote
>> Rod Speed wrote
>
>>>> on SBS TV tonight, at 7:30.
>
>>>> New doco series on the 737 Max fiasco.
>
>>> Single doco in fact.
>
>> https://tvblackbox.com.au/page/2021/09/20/new-documentary-series-reveals-the-10-mistakes-of-the-boeing-737-max/
>>
>
> Some fool fucks up.
> https://www.sbs.com.au/guide/day/2021-09-20/location/NSW/sublocation/Sydney#/program/26848872
>
>
>>> Nothing special, complete unknowns saying nothing new.
>
>>> Suspiciously scripted with lots of "nose dive" and "climbing onto the
>>> plane"
>
>> The visuals and details were very good.
>
> Not really. Just a very minor mention right at the end of the
> real problem, using just a single angle of attack sensor with
> no way for the system to determine if its reading was valid.

That certainly was the major error but there was more.
My son is an IT engineer and he has seen the code written for the Max
MCAS, he said that it was very amateurish and very poorly written.
Boeing gave their software engineers a deadline to complete the software
and they said it couldn't be done in that time so Boeing subcontracted
it to an Indian company who in an effort to meet the deadline did a half
arsed job.
>
>> Really hammered the level of corrupt & criminal behavior by Boeing.
>
> More mindless bullshit, your trademark.

Can't say if Boeing's behavior was corrupt or criminal but it certainly
wasn't up to standard, if they hadn't been in such a rush to get the Max
completed the failures and crashes may not of happened.

--
Daryl

Re: 737 MAX: Ten Mistakes

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Subject: Re: 737 MAX: Ten Mistakes
From: palliso...@gmail.com (Phil Allison)
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 by: Phil Allison - Wed, 22 Sep 2021 00:34 UTC

Daryl wrote:
==========
>
> My son is an IT engineer and he has seen the code written for the Max
> MCAS, he said that it was very amateurish and very poorly written.

** What does your at think about it?

> Boeing gave their software engineers a deadline to complete the software
> and they said it couldn't be done in that time so Boeing subcontracted
> it to an Indian company who in an effort to meet the deadline did a half
> arsed job.

** The code worked just as Boeing specified.
Pilots were assumed to know what to do if MCAS acted improperly.
You did not watch the show, did you ?

> >> Really hammered the level of corrupt & criminal behavior by Boeing.

> Can't say if Boeing's behavior was corrupt or criminal ...

** So you didn't .....

....... Phil

Re: 737 MAX: Ten Mistakes

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From: dwalf...@westpine.com.au (Daryl)
Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: 737 MAX: Ten Mistakes
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2021 12:46:37 +1000
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 by: Daryl - Wed, 22 Sep 2021 02:46 UTC

On 22/9/21 10:34 am, Phil Allison wrote:
> Daryl wrote:
> ==========
>>
>> My son is an IT engineer and he has seen the code written for the Max
>> MCAS, he said that it was very amateurish and very poorly written.
>
> ** What does your at think about it?

at?
>
>> Boeing gave their software engineers a deadline to complete the software
>> and they said it couldn't be done in that time so Boeing subcontracted
>> it to an Indian company who in an effort to meet the deadline did a half
>> arsed job.
>
> ** The code worked just as Boeing specified.

If it did then their specification was sub par.

> Pilots were assumed to know what to do if MCAS acted improperly.
> You did not watch the show, did you ?

I didn't watch, didn't think it would be all that interesting, I have a
low opinion of anything on commercial TV and rarely watch it.

--
Daryl

Re: 737 MAX: Ten Mistakes

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Subject: Re: 737 MAX: Ten Mistakes
From: palliso...@gmail.com (Phil Allison)
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 by: Phil Allison - Wed, 22 Sep 2021 02:54 UTC

Daryl wrote:
===========
>>
> >> My son is an IT engineer and he has seen the code written for the Max
> >> MCAS, he said that it was very amateurish and very poorly written.
> >
> > ** What does your at think about it?
> at?

** Cat. Gt it " ... might as well ask the damn cat " .

> >> Boeing gave their software engineers a deadline to complete the software
> >> and they said it couldn't be done in that time so Boeing subcontracted
> >> it to an Indian company who in an effort to meet the deadline did a half
> >> arsed job.
> >
> > ** The code worked just as Boeing specified.
>
> If it did then their specification was sub par.

** But does your cat agree? Hmmmmm....

> > Pilots were assumed to know what to do if MCAS acted improperly.
> > You did not watch the show, did you ?

> I didn't watch, didn't think it would be all that interesting,

** Then shut the fuck up - cockhead.

..... Phil

Re: 737 MAX: Ten Mistakes

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From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: 737 MAX: Ten Mistakes
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2021 13:22:20 +1000
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 by: Rod Speed - Wed, 22 Sep 2021 03:22 UTC

Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote

>>>>> on SBS TV tonight, at 7:30.

>>>>> New doco series on the 737 Max fiasco.

>>>> Single doco in fact.

>>> https://tvblackbox.com.au/page/2021/09/20/new-documentary-series-reveals-the-10-mistakes-of-the-boeing-737-max/

>> Some fool fucks up.
>> https://www.sbs.com.au/guide/day/2021-09-20/location/NSW/sublocation/Sydney#/program/26848872

>>>> Nothing special, complete unknowns saying nothing new.

>>>> Suspiciously scripted with lots of "nose dive" and "climbing onto the
>>>> plane"

>>> The visuals and details were very good.

>> Not really. Just a very minor mention right at the end of the
>> real problem, using just a single angle of attack sensor with
>> no way for the system to determine if its reading was valid.

> That certainly was the major error but there was more.
> My son is an IT engineer and he has seen the code written for the Max
> MCAS, he said that it was very amateurish and very poorly written.
> Boeing gave their software engineers a deadline to complete the software
> and they said it couldn't be done in that time so Boeing subcontracted it
> to an Indian company who in an effort to meet the deadline did a half
> arsed job.

Fark, no wonder it took so long to get approval for them to fly again.

Wonder how much of the rest of the code in
the other recent brand new models is that bad.

>>> Really hammered the level of corrupt & criminal behavior by Boeing.

>> More mindless bullshit, your trademark.

> Can't say if Boeing's behavior was corrupt or criminal but it certainly
> wasn't up to standard, if they hadn't been in such a rush to get the Max
> completed the failures and crashes may not of happened.

Yeah, that’s what I meant.

Re: 737 MAX: Ten Mistakes

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From: dwalf...@westpine.com.au (Daryl)
Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: 737 MAX: Ten Mistakes
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2021 14:37:58 +1000
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 by: Daryl - Wed, 22 Sep 2021 04:37 UTC

On 22/9/21 1:22 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
> Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
>> Rod Speed wrote
>>> Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>
>>>>>> on SBS TV tonight, at 7:30.
>
>>>>>> New doco series on the 737 Max fiasco.
>
>>>>> Single doco in fact.
>
>>>> https://tvblackbox.com.au/page/2021/09/20/new-documentary-series-reveals-the-10-mistakes-of-the-boeing-737-max/
>>>>
>
>>> Some fool fucks up.
>>> https://www.sbs.com.au/guide/day/2021-09-20/location/NSW/sublocation/Sydney#/program/26848872
>>>
>
>>>>> Nothing special, complete unknowns saying nothing new.
>
>>>>> Suspiciously scripted with lots of "nose dive" and "climbing onto
>>>>> the plane"
>
>>>> The visuals and details were very good.
>
>>> Not really. Just a very minor mention right at the end of the
>>> real problem, using just a single angle of attack sensor with
>>> no way for the system to determine if its reading was valid.
>
>> That certainly was the major error but there was more.
>> My son is an IT engineer and he has seen the code written for the Max
>> MCAS, he said that it was very amateurish and very poorly written.
>> Boeing gave their software engineers a deadline to complete the
>> software and they said it couldn't be done in that time so Boeing
>> subcontracted it to an Indian company who in an effort to meet the
>> deadline did a half arsed job.
>
> Fark, no wonder it took so long to get approval for them to fly again.

Very likely they had to start from scratch.
>
> Wonder how much of the rest of the code in
> the other recent brand new models is that bad.

Certainly makes you wonder.
When Airbus went to fly by wire I didn't like the idea all that much and
thought that Boeing had better systems where there was still some sort
of direct links to the controls, seems that its now arse about and
Airbus has done a better job of automation than Boeing.
There are bound to be failures when the release of a new aircraft is
timed to suit the marketing Dept instead of the engineering Dept.

--
Daryl

Re: 737 MAX: Ten Mistakes

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From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: 737 MAX: Ten Mistakes
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2021 15:37:05 +1000
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 by: Rod Speed - Wed, 22 Sep 2021 05:37 UTC

Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>> Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>
>>>>>>> on SBS TV tonight, at 7:30.
>>
>>>>>>> New doco series on the 737 Max fiasco.
>>
>>>>>> Single doco in fact.
>>
>>>>> https://tvblackbox.com.au/page/2021/09/20/new-documentary-series-reveals-the-10-mistakes-of-the-boeing-737-max/
>>
>>>> Some fool fucks up.
>>>> https://www.sbs.com.au/guide/day/2021-09-20/location/NSW/sublocation/Sydney#/program/26848872
>>
>>>>>> Nothing special, complete unknowns saying nothing new.
>>
>>>>>> Suspiciously scripted with lots of "nose dive" and "climbing onto the
>>>>>> plane"
>>
>>>>> The visuals and details were very good.
>>
>>>> Not really. Just a very minor mention right at the end of the
>>>> real problem, using just a single angle of attack sensor with
>>>> no way for the system to determine if its reading was valid.
>>
>>> That certainly was the major error but there was more.
>>> My son is an IT engineer and he has seen the code written for the Max
>>> MCAS, he said that it was very amateurish and very poorly written.
>>> Boeing gave their software engineers a deadline to complete the software
>>> and they said it couldn't be done in that time so Boeing subcontracted
>>> it to an Indian company who in an effort to meet the deadline did a half
>>> arsed job.
>>
>> Fark, no wonder it took so long to get approval for them to fly again.
>
> Very likely they had to start from scratch.
>>
>> Wonder how much of the rest of the code in
>> the other recent brand new models is that bad.
>
> Certainly makes you wonder.

> When Airbus went to fly by wire I didn't like the idea all that much and
> thought that Boeing had better systems where there was still some sort of
> direct links to the controls, seems that its now arse about and Airbus has
> done a better job of automation than Boeing.

Yeah, tho Air France Flight 447 isn't actually a huge confidence builder.

And the original 737 has a better record than the A320

> There are bound to be failures when the release of a new aircraft is timed
> to suit the marketing Dept instead of the engineering Dept.

Re: 737 MAX: Ten Mistakes

<iqvuuvF2mgiU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: use...@account.invalid (keithr0)
Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: 737 MAX: Ten Mistakes
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2021 15:57:51 +1000
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 by: keithr0 - Wed, 22 Sep 2021 05:57 UTC

On 22/09/2021 1:22 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
> Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
>> Rod Speed wrote
>>> Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>
>>>>>> on SBS TV tonight, at 7:30.
>
>>>>>> New doco series on the 737 Max fiasco.
>
>>>>> Single doco in fact.
>
>>>> https://tvblackbox.com.au/page/2021/09/20/new-documentary-series-reveals-the-10-mistakes-of-the-boeing-737-max/
>>>>
>
>>> Some fool fucks up.
>>> https://www.sbs.com.au/guide/day/2021-09-20/location/NSW/sublocation/Sydney#/program/26848872
>>>
>
>>>>> Nothing special, complete unknowns saying nothing new.
>
>>>>> Suspiciously scripted with lots of "nose dive" and "climbing onto
>>>>> the plane"
>
>>>> The visuals and details were very good.
>
>>> Not really. Just a very minor mention right at the end of the
>>> real problem, using just a single angle of attack sensor with
>>> no way for the system to determine if its reading was valid.
>
>> That certainly was the major error but there was more.
>> My son is an IT engineer and he has seen the code written for the Max
>> MCAS, he said that it was very amateurish and very poorly written.
>> Boeing gave their software engineers a deadline to complete the
>> software and they said it couldn't be done in that time so Boeing
>> subcontracted it to an Indian company who in an effort to meet the
>> deadline did a half arsed job.
>
> Fark, no wonder it took so long to get approval for them to fly again.
>
> Wonder how much of the rest of the code in
> the other recent brand new models is that bad.

When the FAA finally inspected the code, they found a lot more problems
than just MCAS.

>>>> Really hammered the level of corrupt & criminal behavior by Boeing.
>
>>> More mindless bullshit, your trademark.
>
>> Can't say if Boeing's behavior was corrupt or criminal but it
>> certainly wasn't up to standard, if they hadn't been in such a rush to
>> get the Max completed the failures and crashes may not of happened.
>
> Yeah, that’s what I meant.

The general industry opinion is that the Max is just pushing an outdated
design too far. Boeing never wanted to make it, they were going to come
up with a completely new design but the A320NEO spooked them.

They have plenty of other problems too, quality problems with the KC67
and the 787 not to mention software problems with the Starliner. Quality
has been a problem since they opened a factory in South Carolina to
weaken the power of the unions in Washington state. Moving the HQ to
Chicago hasn't helped, moving the management away from the workforce.

Re: 737 MAX: Ten Mistakes

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Subject: Re: 737 MAX: Ten Mistakes
From: palliso...@gmail.com (Phil Allison)
Injection-Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2021 06:58:05 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
 by: Phil Allison - Wed, 22 Sep 2021 06:58 UTC

keithr0 wrote:
============
>
> The general industry opinion is that the Max is just pushing an outdated
> design too far. Boeing never wanted to make it, they were going to come
> up with a completely new design but the A320NEO spooked them.
>

** That supposed to be an *excuse* for blatant *criminal behavior* in relation to pax lives ???
Or do you just expect aviation industry execs and company paid "useful idiot" pilots to be morally bankrupt ?
And the FAA too go along of the ride too?

> They have plenty of other problems too ...

** None of them anywhere near this BIG .

FYI imbecile :

Public trust is hard won and easily lost, ever for pure accidents.
This was NO accident.

........ Phil

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