Broadcaster and outspoken cycling advocate Jeremy Vine has prompted a discussion about how road users share space in urban environments, and suggested vehicle drivers overtaking cyclists in cities is "pointless".

Accompanied by one of his now-famous 360-degree camera videos, in which a taxi driver overtakes him five times only to drop back behind the cyclist at traffic lights, Vine said, "there's a strong argument that motor vehicles should not be allowed to overtake bicycles in cities.

"If you watch this clip from my commute, you'll see there is no point whatsoever in any of this driver's five overtakes — even with the roads clear.

"No complaints about the cab driver: he never passed too close. But why can't he see: even without traffic, it's pointless to overtake a bicycle in a city?"

It was to be expected that the Vine on 5 host's eye-catching suggestion would be challenged by those who disagree, with Vine summarising his argument in response.

"The argument is that a bicycle is faster, so every single overtake he does will have to be repeated. And as you see from the film, even though he is quite a good driver, all overtaking involves a slight increase in risk," Vine tweeted.

"I think my point is that any overtake bears risk, and they should be avoided if possible, and the clip clearly establishes that motor vehicles are slower than bicycles, so it's best for him not to overtake me at all."

Despite the inevitable anger in many replies to the broadcaster's suggestion, some agreed with the sentiment of the point.

Rory Meakin said: "This video illustrates quite well how, for most journeys in cities, cycling is faster than driving. Sure, the top speed in a car is higher, and if you’re driving at 2am mainly on a 40mph+ road driving will be quicker. But for most trips it’s ill-suited"

Irish Fine Gael politician Ciaran Cannon insisted the idea bikes are faster than cars at getting from "Point A to Point B" in urban environments is "not up for debate, it's just a fact".

Vine regularly shares videos on social media of footage captured while he cycles around the capital, including dangerous driving, celebrity encounters and basically anything and everything interesting.

He is also a regular on his penny-farthing, and was taken to hospital and left with a black eye after falling from his high wheeler last month.

The week before his penny-farthing fall, Vine shared footage of a high-speed overtake in a 20mph zone, which he said "not meaning to overdramatise [....] the closest I've come to dying on my bicycle."

https://road.cc/content/news/jeremy-vine-suggests-vehicles-should-not-overtake-cyclists-291037

On 13/03/2022 01:52 pm, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:

> Broadcaster and outspoken fairy-cycling advocate Jeremy Vine has prompted a discussion about how road users share space in urban environments, and suggested vehicle drivers overtaking fairy-cyclists in cities is "pointless".
>
> Accompanied by one of his now-famous 360-degree camera videos, in which a taxi driver overtakes him five times only to drop back behind the fairy-cyclist at traffic lights, Vine said, "there's a strong argument that motor vehicles should not be allowed to overtake fairy-bicycles in cities.

And a stronger one to the effect that fairy-cyclists should not be
allowed to overtake stationary vehicles at traffic lights or other
queues. Then Vine's "argument" would fall away to the nonsense that it is.
>
> "If you watch this clip from my commute, you'll see there is no point whatsoever in any of this driver's five overtakes — even with the roads clear.
>
> "No complaints about the cab driver: he never passed too close. But why can't he see: even without traffic, it's pointless to overtake a fairy-bicycle in a city?"

Because it isn't?

> It was to be expected that the Vine on 5 host's eye-catching suggestion would be challenged by those who disagree, with Vine summarising his argument in response.
>
> "The argument is that a fairy-bicycle is faster, so every single overtake he does will have to be repeated. And as you see from the film, even though he is quite a good driver, all overtaking involves a slight increase in risk," Vine tweeted.
>
> "I think my point is that any overtake bears risk, and they should be avoided if possible, and the clip clearly establishes that motor vehicles are slower than fairy-bicycles, so it's best for him not to overtake me at all."

Tell you what: if fairy-cycles are faster than cars, let's see a
challenge issued to Vine the Nutter: A commuter challenge (purely by
road) from (say) suburban Colchester to a commercial (office) site in
(say) Romford. Vine the Nutter against a qualified driver in a very
ordinary motor-car.

Apparently, the fairy-cycle is "faster", so Vine the Nutter should win.

Or something.

> Despite the inevitable anger in many replies to the broadcaster's suggestion, some agreed with the sentiment of the point.
>
> Rory Meakin said: "This video illustrates quite well how, for most journeys in cities, fairy-cycling is faster than driving. Sure, the top speed in a car is higher, and if you’re driving at 2am mainly on a 40mph+ road driving will be quicker. But for most trips it’s ill-suited"

What are these "most trips"?

> Irish Fine Gael politician Ciaran Cannon insisted the idea fairy-bikes are faster than cars at getting from "Point A to Point B" in urban environments is "not up for debate, it's just a fact".

In a city where traffic has been hobbled and three lanes of traffic
squeezed into one, what else would one reasonably expect? It can be
faster to walk in some town centres than to do the equivalent distance
by car. That does not mean that either walking or fairy-cycling id
inherently faster, even in an urban environment.
>
> Vine regularly shares videos on social media of footage captured while he fairy-cycles around the capital, including dangerous driving, celebrity encounters and basically anything and everything interesting.
>
> He is also a regular on his penny-farthing, and was taken to hospital and left with a black eye after falling from his high wheeler last month.

Oh dear. We're all SO sorry to hear that.

Or something.
>
> The week before his penny-farthing fall, Vine shared footage of a high-speed overtake in a 20mph zone, which he said "not meaning to overdramatise [...] the closest I've come to dying on my fairy-bicycle."
>
> https://road.cc/content/news/jeremy-vine-suggests-vehicles-should-not-overtake-cyclists-291037

On Sunday, March 13, 2022 at 1:52:56 PM UTC, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:

hawkinspeter | 8380 posts | 2 hours ago
3 likes

That makes sense to me. Maybe there should be a general rule - 20mph roads should not allow cycle overtaking unless the road is otherwise totally clear (there's little point in having a car following along behind a bike for no reason).

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kenobe replied to hawkinspeter | 11 posts | 1 hour ago
0 likes

It assumes cyclists can keep a fairly high pace up. Most city centre cycling is done by Just Eat, Deliveroo etc who are often pootling about at about 8-10mph. Be an absolute nonsense if you couldn't overtake them. Also not all our cities are flat. Often have to crawl up Leece St, behind a cyclist who is doing about 5mph up the hill.

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hawkinspeter replied to kenobe | 8380 posts | 5 min ago
1 like

kenobe wrote:

It assumes cyclists can keep a fairly high pace up. Most city centre cycling is done by Just Eat, Deliveroo etc who are often pootling about at about 8-10mph. Be an absolute nonsense if you couldn't overtake them. Also not all our cities are flat. Often have to crawl up Leece St, behind a cyclist who is doing about 5mph up the hill.

Here in Bristol, you'd be lucky to manage 8mph average in a car. Most overtakes simply get the driver to join the back of the next queue where they then get in the way of the cyclist. And yes, there's plenty of hills in Bristol which doesn't change the fact that during busy times, cyclists are filtering besides stationary vehicles.

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hirsute replied to kenobe | 5280 posts | 1 hour ago
1 like

Surely all places have deliveroo people with illegal ebikes ?

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HoarseMann replied to hawkinspeter | 1452 posts | 43 min ago
0 likes

I think we need a bit of both. Ideally, you want to separate cycle and motor traffic. What they do in the Netherlands, is to try and encourage cars to use a particular road and cycles another, parallel-ish, street (with the bikes getting the more direct route). Overtaking can be prohibited on the quieter road, but allowed on the busier street.

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hawkinspeter replied to HoarseMann | 8380 posts | 28 min ago
0 likes

HoarseMann wrote:

I think we need a bit of both. Ideally, you want to separate cycle and motor traffic. What they do in the Netherlands, is to try and encourage cars to use a particular road and cycles another, parallel-ish, street (with the bikes getting the more direct route). Overtaking can be prohibited on the quieter road, but allowed on the busier street.

I can't see that working in the UK as the most direct routes always seem to prioritise motor traffic and cyclists are persuaded to take the longer routes.

Also, I'd rather that overtaking be allowed on quieter streets. It's the busy ones that don't provide any benefit for drivers to overtake cyclists.

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mdavidford replied to hawkinspeter | 3038 posts | 20 min ago
1 like

You forgot to put the scare quotes around 'persuaded'.

>
> https://road.cc/content/news/jeremy-vine-suggests-vehicles-should-not-overtake-cyclists-291037

On 13/03/2022 14:21, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, March 13, 2022 at 1:52:56 PM UTC, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:

> hawkinspeter | 8380 posts | 2 hours ago
> 3 likes

> That makes sense to me. Maybe there should be a general rule - 20mph roads should not allow cycle overtaking unless the road is otherwise totally clear (there's little point in having a car following along behind a bike for no reason).

Maybe there should be a general rule - 20mph roads should not allow
cycles to overtake pedestrians unless the road is otherwise totally clear

--
Spike

On Sunday, March 13, 2022 at 1:52:56 PM UTC, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:

> Of course in traffic calmed zones, cars should not be overtaking moving vehicles AT ALL.

> https://road.cc/content/news/jeremy-vine-suggests-vehicles-should-not-overtake-cyclists-291037