I replaced some 20W CFLs with some 15W LEDs and the latter are much brighter and give a better colour light.
Bill

wrights...@f2s.com <wrightsaerials@f2s.com> wrote:
> I replaced some 20W CFLs with some 15W LEDs and the latter are much
> brighter and give a better colour light.
> Bill
>

And you’re surprised?

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 10/1/2022 3:29 PM, wrights...@f2s.com wrote:
> I replaced some 20W CFLs with some 15W LEDs and the latter are much brighter and give a better colour light.
> Bill
>
LEDs are sorted by colour temperature. And you can have
as much "brightness" as you can stand.

For example, a 9000K LED is "too blue" for me.

A 2500K LED is "too reddish". Some of the "warm" LED
bulbs, have actually had a couple red LEDs inside the
bulb, to give it the hint of a reddish tone (Philips).

The LED you got might have been 4000K or 4500K. These
are all nominally white LEDs (white colour distribution),
but the colour temperature is shifted to emulate a
particular kind of existing light.

Fluorescents also received some phosphor work, and there
are ones with a Daylight rating, which will be brighter
like your LEDs. Making phosphors is hard, because
the material must be cheap to make in bulk. You cannot
go overboard on the rare earth materials.

Some people select particular light types, to counter
winter depression. So it seems like it is "always summer"
in the house.

At some stores here, the LEDs are on display, so the
customers can make better selections while at the
store, and not regret what they bought later.

When I bought a particular LED bulb years ago,
on the outside of the package it said
"this bulb is NOT yellow". When I compared the light
emitted, to an existing LED in the house, well,
the light was yellow. You can't make this stuff up :-)
The plastic on the bulb appeared yellow... and
shocker, so was the light that came out :-)

"Philips bulb with the remote phosphor panels (the yellow bit)"

https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-d9a3fec685634fe40d72e194d76ddf3e-lq

One of those lights the room I'm in. Because the light is NOT yellow.

Paul

On Saturday, 1 October 2022 at 21:19:03 UTC+1, Tim+ wrote:
> wrights...@f2s.com <wrights...@f2s.com> wrote:
> > I replaced some 20W CFLs with some 15W LEDs and the latter are much
> > brighter and give a better colour light.
> > Bill
> >
> And you’re surprised?
>
> Tim
>
> --
> Please don't feed the trolls
Yes because CFLs are supposed to be very efficient. That's what they told us...

wrights...@f2s.com <wrightsaerials@f2s.com> wrote
> Tim+ wrote
>> wrights...@f2s.com <wrights...@f2s.com> wrote

>> > I replaced some 20W CFLs with some 15W LEDs and the latter are much
>> > brighter and give a better colour light.

>> And you’re surprised?

> Yes because CFLs are supposed to be very efficient. That's what they
> told us...

They said that back in the days when CFLs were being spruiked.

They never said that they were very efficient compared with LEDs

wrights...@f2s.com <wrightsaerials@f2s.com> wrote:
> On Saturday, 1 October 2022 at 21:19:03 UTC+1, Tim+ wrote:
>> wrights...@f2s.com <wrights...@f2s.com> wrote:
>>> I replaced some 20W CFLs with some 15W LEDs and the latter are much
>>> brighter and give a better colour light.
>>> Bill
>>>
>> And you’re surprised?
>>
>> Tim
>>
>> --
>> Please don't feed the trolls
> Yes because CFLs are supposed to be very efficient. That's what they told us...
>

CFLs were only efficient compared to tungsten. They were a transient
abomination whose efficiency was surpassed by LEDs *years* ago.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 02/10/2022 08:23, Tim+ wrote:
> wrights...@f2s.com <wrightsaerials@f2s.com> wrote:
>> On Saturday, 1 October 2022 at 21:19:03 UTC+1, Tim+ wrote:
>>> wrights...@f2s.com <wrights...@f2s.com> wrote:
>>>> I replaced some 20W CFLs with some 15W LEDs and the latter are much
>>>> brighter and give a better colour light.
>>>> Bill
>>>>
>>> And you’re surprised?
>>>
>>> Tim
>>>
>>> --
>>> Please don't feed the trolls
>> Yes because CFLs are supposed to be very efficient. That's what they told us...
>>
>
> CFLs were only efficient compared to tungsten. They were a transient
> abomination whose efficiency was surpassed by LEDs *years* ago.

Less than 10 years ago. CFLs had been around for a lot longer.

There were a handful of research grade LEDs made that could achieve
extremely high efficacy in the lab on a near infinite heat sink. But
they were still a very long way away from being consumer products.

This is a puff piece for Cree who were at the time world leaders:

https://www.cortemgroup.com/en/news/the-rapid-evolution-of-led-more-lumens-and-less-actual-energy-consumption

It was around 2015 when they really became competitive in brightness
(but still rather expensive per bulb ISTR around £10 each).

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

Do they still exhibit the slowly getting brighter issue of cfls. Obviously
its mostly visitors that use the lights, but still.
I was also wondering what to do about a thorne fitting of two tubes with
two 40 watt tubes in it. It would be nice to use LED tube replacements, but
I seem to only see thin ones. Also I did have a notion it might be fun to
hide a small device like the Alexa switched socket inside the device to turn
it on and off with, but it is actually too big. You really need a module for
that I think.
Brian

--

--:
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"wrights...@f2s.com" <wrightsaerials@f2s.com> wrote in message
news:117b2088-43f5-4946-bb53-63763af89cd6n@googlegroups.com...
>I replaced some 20W CFLs with some 15W LEDs and the latter are much
>brighter and give a better colour light.
> Bill

I remember when they first appeared noting with my failing sight that it
seemed a grainy light, almost speckled.

My feeling is that some of the most efficient phosphors are not very
daylight like at all, and have big holeds in the visual spectrum.
Brian

--

--:
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"wrights...@f2s.com" <wrightsaerials@f2s.com> wrote in message
news:26b63aee-5bd3-4251-9b7c-f2604e51de42n@googlegroups.com...
On Saturday, 1 October 2022 at 21:19:03 UTC+1, Tim+ wrote:
> wrights...@f2s.com <wrights...@f2s.com> wrote:
> > I replaced some 20W CFLs with some 15W LEDs and the latter are much
> > brighter and give a better colour light.
> > Bill
> >
> And you're surprised?
>
> Tim
>
> --
> Please don't feed the trolls
Yes because CFLs are supposed to be very efficient. That's what they told
us...

When I had a video camera here and could see, I remember noting that all
faces were yellow with the gas tube technology, and you needed at least
some tungsten technology as well to make people look more like humans and
not aliens. You could to some extent move camera controls to make it see
better but when you went outside it looked awful.
Brian

--

--:
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Paul" <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote in message
news:tha7pt$jpk$1@gioia.aioe.org...
> On 10/1/2022 3:29 PM, wrights...@f2s.com wrote:
>> I replaced some 20W CFLs with some 15W LEDs and the latter are much
>> brighter and give a better colour light.
>> Bill
>>
> LEDs are sorted by colour temperature. And you can have
> as much "brightness" as you can stand.
>
> For example, a 9000K LED is "too blue" for me.
>
> A 2500K LED is "too reddish". Some of the "warm" LED
> bulbs, have actually had a couple red LEDs inside the
> bulb, to give it the hint of a reddish tone (Philips).
>
> The LED you got might have been 4000K or 4500K. These
> are all nominally white LEDs (white colour distribution),
> but the colour temperature is shifted to emulate a
> particular kind of existing light.
>
> Fluorescents also received some phosphor work, and there
> are ones with a Daylight rating, which will be brighter
> like your LEDs. Making phosphors is hard, because
> the material must be cheap to make in bulk. You cannot
> go overboard on the rare earth materials.
>
> Some people select particular light types, to counter
> winter depression. So it seems like it is "always summer"
> in the house.
>
> At some stores here, the LEDs are on display, so the
> customers can make better selections while at the
> store, and not regret what they bought later.
>
> When I bought a particular LED bulb years ago,
> on the outside of the package it said
> "this bulb is NOT yellow". When I compared the light
> emitted, to an existing LED in the house, well,
> the light was yellow. You can't make this stuff up :-)
> The plastic on the bulb appeared yellow... and
> shocker, so was the light that came out :-)
>
> "Philips bulb with the remote phosphor panels (the yellow bit)"
>
> https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-d9a3fec685634fe40d72e194d76ddf3e-lq
>
> One of those lights the room I'm in. Because the light is NOT yellow.
>
> Paul

On 02/10/2022 11:29, Brian Gaff wrote:
> Do they still exhibit the slowly getting brighter issue of cfls. Obviously
> its mostly visitors that use the lights, but still.
> I was also wondering what to do about a thorne fitting of two tubes with
> two 40 watt tubes in it. It would be nice to use LED tube replacements, but
> I seem to only see thin ones. Also I did have a notion it might be fun to
> hide a small device like the Alexa switched socket inside the device to turn
> it on and off with, but it is actually too big. You really need a module for
> that I think.

There are plenty of small ALEXA capable modules on Amazon. I have a
couple for my kitchen down lights.

> Brian
>

Dave

Martin Brown wrote:

> It was around 2015 when they really became competitive in brightness (but still
> rather expensive per bulb ISTR around £10 each).

Yes, around that time I became happy with 13W LEDs as true "100W equivalent"
replacements, that didn't burn out in short order.

Johnny B Good can finally buy his 200 lm/W LEDs, provided 60W is enough and it
doesn't need to be dimmable or use bayonet fitting ...

<https://argos.co.uk/search/ultra-led>

"Brian Gaff" <brian1gaff@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:thbpbm$1m2rl$1@dont-email.me...
> I remember when they first appeared noting with my failing sight that it
> seemed a grainy light, almost speckled.

We used daylight-colour CFLs (*) in our last house and the colour *looked*
pretty good - occasionally I've forgotten that the light was on, thinking it
was daylight coming in through the window. There was a *very* pale green
cast when seen by eye, but this was only apparent at night, maybe when the
CFL was the only source of light without any daylight from outside. But a
camera that was white-balanced to "daylight" (probably around 6000K) saw the
CFLs as being a bit orange. Shows how the sensitivity of the eye and of a
camera can differ.

We've still got those CFLs in the garage in case we ever need them, but
we've gone over to Philips Hue LED bulbs - mostly arrays of GU10 because our
new house had already been wired for GU10s in the kitchen and bedrooms. I
removed lots of tungsten GU10s which must have used a lot of power, and
replaced them with either Philips Hue where we wanted control over
colour/brightness or normal LED of either "daylight" or "tungsten" colour.

Interesting , Brian, that CFLs looked "grainy" and "speckled". That almost
suggests coherent light that you'd get with a laser

(*) Supposedly designed to give high colour rendition index so as to compare
well with natural daylight.

"Brian Gaff" <brian1gaff@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:thbpjq$1m3e7$1@dont-email.me...
> When I had a video camera here and could see, I remember noting that all
> faces were yellow with the gas tube technology, and you needed at least
> some tungsten technology as well to make people look more like humans and
> not aliens. You could to some extent move camera controls to make it see
> better but when you went outside it looked awful.

Probably the CFLs were designed to look "warm" so as to match tungsten or
"warm white" fluorescent tubes. Interesting that CFLs looked *more* yellow
than with tungsten light, via the video camera. Once you'd white-balanced
the camera for those CFLs and/or tungsten lights, daylight would look very
blue. That was one of the perils with video cameras that only had a
black-and-white viewfinder: you could not see any colour cast. When I was
filming my sister's wedding, I'd manually balanced (*) the camera for the
indoor lighting and then went outside to film some guests: until I
remembered, the outside scenes were very blue. With a colour viewfinder, I'd
have noticed instantly.

(*) The auto white-balance that you get on a lot of modern cameras works
surprisingly well, but it can lead to rather colourless photos outdoors, so
I tend to white-balance off a sheet of paper and then keep that setting (if
the lighting is non-standard) or else use one of the preset colour
balances - especially with my DSLR which suffers badly if left on auto WB
when used outdoors.

Tim+ <tim.downie@gmail.com> wrote:
> wrights...@f2s.com <wrightsaerials@f2s.com> wrote:
>> On Saturday, 1 October 2022 at 21:19:03 UTC+1, Tim+ wrote:
>>> wrights...@f2s.com <wrights...@f2s.com> wrote:
>>>> I replaced some 20W CFLs with some 15W LEDs and the latter are much
>>>> brighter and give a better colour light.
>>>> Bill
>>>>
>>> And you’re surprised?
>>>
>>> Tim
>>>
>>> --
>>> Please don't feed the trolls
>> Yes because CFLs are supposed to be very efficient. That's what they told us...
>>
>
> CFLs were only efficient compared to tungsten. They were a transient
> abomination whose efficiency was surpassed by LEDs *years* ago.
>
> Tim
>

CFLs were very much a compromise but LEDs are, even now, far from perfect
in some applications. Most of our lights are LED but we have a few
Halogens, mainly for detailed work eg Senior Management does a lot of cross
stitch etc and I’ve yet to find a suitable LED light for her work light.
Ditto my work bench where I do electronics etc.

We have some wall lights, which we really like, in two rooms, and it took
ages to find suitable LED bulbs for those ( golf ball dimmable which are
bright enough on full). I’d bought a huge stock of tungsten bulbs just in
case!

I had a similar problem finding suitable LED equivalents for some other
fittings which used 2x 40w halogens. The early ones which claimed to be
40W equivalents were like cigarette ends. Eventually I found some.

I’ve replaced most of the tubes in the garage with LED tubes - one left to
do. They are great, far brighter. I must do the remaining one!

Brian Gaff <brian1gaff@gmail.com> wrote

> Do they still exhibit the slowly getting brighter issue of cfls.

Dunno, ever got any new ones since LEDs became viable.

> Obviously its mostly visitors that use the lights, but still.

> I was also wondering what to do about a thorne fitting of two tubes with
> two 40 watt tubes in it. It would be nice to use LED tube replacements,
> but I seem to only see thin ones.

Some of the Philips Hue bulbs arent thin. More of a cone
shape than the original incandescent bulbs, but work
fine where the normal incandescent bulbs were used.

> Also I did have a notion it might be fun to
> hide a small device like the Alexa switched socket inside the device to
> turn
> it on and off with, but it is actually too big.

Makes more sense to use Philips Hue smart bulbs.

> You really need a module for that I think.

Nope, smart bulbs eliminate the need for any module.

On Saturday, 1 October 2022 at 21:26:41 UTC+1, Paul wrote:
> On 10/1/2022 3:29 PM, wrights...@f2s.com wrote:
> > I replaced some 20W CFLs with some 15W LEDs and the latter are much brighter and give a better colour light.
> > Bill
> >
> LEDs are sorted by colour temperature. And you can have
> as much "brightness" as you can stand.
>
> For example, a 9000K LED is "too blue" for me.
>
> A 2500K LED is "too reddish". Some of the "warm" LED
> bulbs, have actually had a couple red LEDs inside the
> bulb, to give it the hint of a reddish tone (Philips).
>
> The LED you got might have been 4000K or 4500K. These

it could be anything. It's most probably 2700K.
Any respectable LED lamp outputs more than typical CFL, which had misleading output equivalence claims.

> are all nominally white LEDs (white colour distribution),
> but the colour temperature is shifted to emulate a
> particular kind of existing light.

no, lighting LEDs are cool white, 2700K are made by colouring the layer over the semiconductor light yellow.

> Fluorescents also received some phosphor work, and there
> are ones with a Daylight rating, which will be brighter
> like your LEDs.

CCT and efficacy in fluorescents are 2 separate things. In LEDs, warm white are necessarily a bit lower efficacy.

> Making phosphors is hard, because
> the material must be cheap to make in bulk. You cannot
> go overboard on the rare earth materials.
>
> Some people select particular light types, to counter
> winter depression. So it seems like it is "always summer"
> in the house.

They normally select regular RGB white marketed as continuous spectrum.

> At some stores here, the LEDs are on display, so the
> customers can make better selections while at the
> store, and not regret what they bought later.
>
> When I bought a particular LED bulb years ago,
> on the outside of the package it said
> "this bulb is NOT yellow". When I compared the light
> emitted, to an existing LED in the house, well,
> the light was yellow. You can't make this stuff up :-)
> The plastic on the bulb appeared yellow... and
> shocker, so was the light that came out :-)

usual marketing then

On Monday, 3 October 2022 at 01:25:44 UTC+1, Animal wrote:

> > The LED you got might have been 4000K or 4500K. These
> it could be anything. It's most probably 2700K.

I like 4000K

Bill

On 03/10/2022 01:25, Animal wrote:
> On Saturday, 1 October 2022 at 21:26:41 UTC+1, Paul wrote:
>> On 10/1/2022 3:29 PM, wrights...@f2s.com wrote:
>>> I replaced some 20W CFLs with some 15W LEDs and the latter are much brighter and give a better colour light.
>>> Bill

CFLs always overstated their luminous equivalence to filament bulbs
whereas most LED bulbs are basically honest. It caught me out with one I
put in my parents bathroom (to be instant on unlike ageing CFL) being
far too bright!

>> are all nominally white LEDs (white colour distribution),
>> but the colour temperature is shifted to emulate a
>> particular kind of existing light.
>
> no, lighting LEDs are cool white, 2700K are made by colouring the layer over the semiconductor light yellow.

That yellow colour is not a passive filter it is a red/yellow/green
emitting phosphor that is excited by the incredibly bright blue LED
behind it. The mixture produces what we perceive as white light. See:

https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/351539/why-does-the-led-light-colour-spectrum-spike-in-the-blue-and-green-wavelengths-b

Tweak the phosphor and you can alter the perceived colour temperature.

>> Fluorescents also received some phosphor work, and there
>> are ones with a Daylight rating, which will be brighter
>> like your LEDs.
>
> CCT and efficacy in fluorescents are 2 separate things. In LEDs, warm white are necessarily a bit lower efficacy.

CFLs have an incredibly bright mercury green line augmented by a red
phosphor. It looks approximately white to humans but not to film.

>> Some people select particular light types, to counter
>> winter depression. So it seems like it is "always summer"
>> in the house.
>
> They normally select regular RGB white marketed as continuous spectrum.

Unclear that it makes any difference though. The blue light from a
standard white LED and its intensity matters much more.

If you were a plant then the blue + red + nearIR LED matrix lamps are
all the rage now. No point shining green light at a green plant!

https://growlightinfo.com/why-are-grow-lights-purple/

I don't agree with their claim that plants need some green light - they
need some additional light wavelengths in the near IR (which would not
be present if you use exclusively red and blue LEDs).
>> When I bought a particular LED bulb years ago,
>> on the outside of the package it said
>> "this bulb is NOT yellow". When I compared the light
>> emitted, to an existing LED in the house, well,
>> the light was yellow. You can't make this stuff up :-)
>> The plastic on the bulb appeared yellow... and
>> shocker, so was the light that came out :-)
>
> usual marketing then

Odd. It is quite hard to make a super bright yellow LED and there isn't
much call for them. I find the claim less than credible. The phosphor
always looks a some shade of yellow in daylight.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

Animal <tabbypurr@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> CCT and efficacy in fluorescents are 2 separate things. In LEDs, warm white
> are necessarily a bit lower efficacy.
>
I asume you mean efficiency and not efficacy, quite different meanings.

--
Chris Green
·

On 01/10/2022 20:29, wrights...@f2s.com wrote:
> I replaced some 20W CFLs with some 15W LEDs and the latter are much brighter and give a better colour light.
> Bill
no shit sherlock

On 03/10/2022 09:14, Martin Brown wrote:
> On 03/10/2022 01:25, Animal wrote:
>> On Saturday, 1 October 2022 at 21:26:41 UTC+1, Paul wrote:
>>> On 10/1/2022 3:29 PM, wrights...@f2s.com wrote:
>>>> I replaced some 20W CFLs with some 15W LEDs and the latter are much brighter and give a better colour light.
>>>> Bill
>
> CFLs always overstated their luminous equivalence to filament bulbs
> whereas most LED bulbs are basically honest. It caught me out with one I
> put in my parents bathroom (to be instant on unlike ageing CFL) being
> far too bright!

Other way round IMHO - or it certainly used to be. I have bought several
leds (particularly G9s) where it was quite obvious the lumen figure
stated on the pack was nowhere near to what the led was actually giving
- often it seemed to be around half (I also checked using my camera's
exposure reading vs a new filament bulb. The led required almost double
the exposure). CFLs, however, when new, and given a minute to attain
full output seemed as bright as their filament equivalent. I also prefer
the glare-free light from CFLs compared to that from leds (although the
latter are much better in frosted glass).

--

Jeff

On 03/10/2022 11:12, Jim Stewart ... wrote:
> On 01/10/2022 20:29, wrights...@f2s.com wrote:
>> I replaced some 20W CFLs with some 15W LEDs and the latter are much
>> brighter and give a better colour light.
>> Bill
> no shit sherlock

I can assure you not all LEDs are the same, and some don't live up to
their expectations.

On 03/10/2022 12:22, Jeff Layman wrote:
> On 03/10/2022 09:14, Martin Brown wrote:
>> On 03/10/2022 01:25, Animal wrote:
>>> On Saturday, 1 October 2022 at 21:26:41 UTC+1, Paul wrote:
>>>> On 10/1/2022 3:29 PM, wrights...@f2s.com wrote:
>>>>> I replaced some 20W CFLs with some 15W LEDs and the latter are much
>>>>> brighter and give a better colour light.
>>>>> Bill
>>
>> CFLs always overstated their luminous equivalence to filament bulbs
>> whereas most LED bulbs are basically honest. It caught me out with one I
>> put in my parents bathroom (to be instant on unlike ageing CFL) being
>> far too bright!
>
> Other way round IMHO - or it certainly used to be. I have bought several
> leds (particularly G9s) where it was quite obvious the lumen figure
> stated on the pack was nowhere near to what the led was actually giving
> - often it seemed to be around half (I also checked using my camera's
> exposure reading vs a new filament bulb. The led required almost double
> the exposure). CFLs, however, when new, and given a minute to attain
> full output seemed as bright as their filament equivalent. I also prefer
> the glare-free light from CFLs compared to that from leds (although the
> latter are much better in frosted glass).

I must have been lucky, all of the LED lights that I bought have been
far brighter (and better coloured) than CFLs, except for the 4 GU10 that
were my first LED purchase - that was in the early days though.

On 03/10/2022 13:23, SteveW wrote:
> On 03/10/2022 12:22, Jeff Layman wrote:
>> On 03/10/2022 09:14, Martin Brown wrote:
>>> On 03/10/2022 01:25, Animal wrote:
>>>> On Saturday, 1 October 2022 at 21:26:41 UTC+1, Paul wrote:
>>>>> On 10/1/2022 3:29 PM, wrights...@f2s.com wrote:
>>>>>> I replaced some 20W CFLs with some 15W LEDs and the latter are
>>>>>> much brighter and give a better colour light.
>>>>>> Bill
>>>
>>> CFLs always overstated their luminous equivalence to filament bulbs
>>> whereas most LED bulbs are basically honest. It caught me out with one I
>>> put in my parents bathroom (to be instant on unlike ageing CFL) being
>>> far too bright!
>>
>> Other way round IMHO - or it certainly used to be. I have bought
>> several leds (particularly G9s) where it was quite obvious the lumen
>> figure stated on the pack was nowhere near to what the led was
>> actually giving - often it seemed to be around half (I also checked
>> using my camera's exposure reading vs a new filament bulb. The led
>> required almost double the exposure). CFLs, however, when new, and
>> given a minute to attain full output seemed as bright as their
>> filament equivalent. I also prefer the glare-free light from CFLs
>> compared to that from leds (although the latter are much better in
>> frosted glass).
>
> I must have been lucky, all of the LED lights that I bought have been
> far brighter (and better coloured) than CFLs, except for the 4 GU10 that
> were my first LED purchase - that was in the early days though.

Small format quartz halogen replacements have always been particularly
dodgy since they tend to die horribly in the thermally isolated
enclosure that was designed to prevent a red hot bulb starting a fire.

LEDs don't make much waste heat but must be able to get rid of what
little they do create or it cooks the electrolytic capacitors until they
fail.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown