Yesterday, Royal Mail left a card telling me that I needed to pay £2.50
for unpaid postage on an item to be delivered. I paid online, and
today, the item was delivered. It was an envelope with one sheet of
hand-written paper inside.
But there is a 2nd Class stamp on the envelope. It is not franked, and
is one of the old style. There is a new yellow sticker, with £2.50
marked, and the sticker is clearly over-stamped as used. The 2nd class
stamp cannot have been added at the Post Office, as it would have been
one of the new-fangled bar-code ones.
What is going on? It is as though a bot has not seen the stamp, and has
demanded a new £2.50 charge. I'll take it to my local Post Office
tomorrow, and ask them. RM are still using Horizon software, aren't
they?
The only clue is that the envelope is about 1/2 inch longer, and about
1/4 inch wider, than a standard (D?) size long envelope. But looking
at the latest price list, I can't find any way to come up with £2.50 as
a charge. 2nd Class postage for it would appear to be 68p.
Can anybody explain what is happening here?

--
Davey.

Davey wrote:

> Yesterday, Royal Mail left a card telling me that I needed to pay £2.50
> for unpaid postage on an item to be delivered. I paid online, and
> today, the item was delivered. It was an envelope with one sheet of
> hand-written paper inside.

doesn't sound like it'd be too heavy,or too thick, was it larger than
24cm long or 16.5cm wide?

> But there is a 2nd Class stamp on the envelope. It is not franked, and
> is one of the old style. There is a new yellow sticker, with £2.50
> marked, and the sticker is clearly over-stamped as used. The 2nd class
> stamp cannot have been added at the Post Office, as it would have been
> one of the new-fangled bar-code ones.

Presumably the post office have until end of Jan to use up old staps, just like
anybody else? Not that they necessarily put a stamp on it when you pay

> What is going on? It is as though a bot has not seen the stamp, and has
> demanded a new £2.50 charge. I'll take it to my local Post Office
> tomorrow, and ask them. RM are still using Horizon software, aren't
> they?
> The only clue is that the envelope is about 1/2 inch longer, and about
> 1/4 inch wider, than a standard (D?) size long envelope. But looking
> at the latest price list, I can't find any way to come up with £2.50 as
> a charge. 2nd Class postage for it would appear to be 68p.
> Can anybody explain what is happening here?

The £2.50 doesn't correspond to a normal postage fee, it's a penalty rate to
cover the extra handling required.

On Thu, 06 Oct 2022 19:26:07 +0100, Davey wrote:

> RM are still using Horizon software, aren't they?

Horizon was/(is?) Post Office,. not Royal Mail.

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 06/10/2022 19:26, Davey wrote:
> Yesterday, Royal Mail left a card telling me that I needed to pay £2.50
> for unpaid postage on an item to be delivered. I paid online, and
> today, the item was delivered. It was an envelope with one sheet of
> hand-written paper inside.
> But there is a 2nd Class stamp on the envelope. It is not franked, and
> is one of the old style. There is a new yellow sticker, with £2.50
> marked, and the sticker is clearly over-stamped as used. The 2nd class
> stamp cannot have been added at the Post Office, as it would have been
> one of the new-fangled bar-code ones.
> What is going on? It is as though a bot has not seen the stamp, and has
> demanded a new £2.50 charge. I'll take it to my local Post Office
> tomorrow, and ask them. RM are still using Horizon software, aren't
> they?
> The only clue is that the envelope is about 1/2 inch longer, and about
> 1/4 inch wider, than a standard (D?) size long envelope. But looking
> at the latest price list, I can't find any way to come up with £2.50 as
> a charge. 2nd Class postage for it would appear to be 68p.
> Can anybody explain what is happening here?

You have fallen foul of the granny oversize birthday card price gouging
trick. A second class stamp is insufficient for a large letter (and so
is a first class letter stamp). So they charge you £2.50 handling fee.

I'd hazard a guess that it is 1mm too big in one of its dimensions.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

That is right. We are the local talking newspaper and many of us all over
the country have started to see bar or qr coded stickers on our reusable
free postage pouches, which have been stuck by obviously brain dead staff
over the slot to remove the address label or over the velcro that secures
the pouch. It seems that the wording freepost - Articles for the Blind means
nothing to a lot of people. This is a world wide scheme, and even the
Russians seem to do it. Back in the day when the Russians had their turn at
sorting out Afghanistan, we used to get mail for the blind in and out. What
is wrong with the UK which makes simple things so complicated.
Brian

--

--:
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Andy Burns" <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote in message
news:jq8m8qFrgr5U1@mid.individual.net...
> Davey wrote:
>
>> Yesterday, Royal Mail left a card telling me that I needed to pay �2.50
>> for unpaid postage on an item to be delivered. I paid online, and
>> today, the item was delivered. It was an envelope with one sheet of
>> hand-written paper inside.
>
> doesn't sound like it'd be too heavy,or too thick, was it larger than
> 24cm long or 16.5cm wide?
>
>> But there is a 2nd Class stamp on the envelope. It is not franked, and
>> is one of the old style. There is a new yellow sticker, with �2.50
>> marked, and the sticker is clearly over-stamped as used. The 2nd class
>> stamp cannot have been added at the Post Office, as it would have been
>> one of the new-fangled bar-code ones.
>
> Presumably the post office have until end of Jan to use up old staps, just
> like anybody else? Not that they necessarily put a stamp on it when you
> pay
>
>> What is going on? It is as though a bot has not seen the stamp, and has
>> demanded a new �2.50 charge. I'll take it to my local Post Office
>> tomorrow, and ask them. RM are still using Horizon software, aren't
>> they?
>> The only clue is that the envelope is about 1/2 inch longer, and about
>> 1/4 inch wider, than a standard (D?) size long envelope. But looking
>> at the latest price list, I can't find any way to come up with �2.50 as
>> a charge. 2nd Class postage for it would appear to be 68p.
>> Can anybody explain what is happening here?
>
> The �2.50 doesn't correspond to a normal postage fee, it's a penalty rate
> to cover the extra handling required.
>

On Thu, 06 Oct 2022 19:26:07 +0100, Davey wrote:

> Yesterday, Royal Mail left a card telling me that I needed to pay £2.50
> for unpaid postage on an item to be delivered. I paid online, and today,
> the item was delivered. It was an envelope with one sheet of
> hand-written paper inside.
> But there is a 2nd Class stamp on the envelope. It is not franked, and
> is one of the old style. There is a new yellow sticker, with £2.50
> marked, and the sticker is clearly over-stamped as used. The 2nd class
> stamp cannot have been added at the Post Office, as it would have been
> one of the new-fangled bar-code ones.
> What is going on? It is as though a bot has not seen the stamp, and has
> demanded a new £2.50 charge. I'll take it to my local Post Office
> tomorrow, and ask them. RM are still using Horizon software, aren't
> they?
> The only clue is that the envelope is about 1/2 inch longer, and about
> 1/4 inch wider, than a standard (D?) size long envelope. But looking at
> the latest price list, I can't find any way to come up with £2.50 as a
> charge. 2nd Class postage for it would appear to be 68p.
> Can anybody explain what is happening here?

I would tell them to stick it...

On 06/10/2022 19:26, Davey wrote:
> Yesterday, Royal Mail left a card telling me that I needed to pay £2.50
> for unpaid postage on an item to be delivered. I paid online, and
> today, the item was delivered. It was an envelope with one sheet of
> hand-written paper inside.
> But there is a 2nd Class stamp on the envelope. It is not franked, and
> is one of the old style. There is a new yellow sticker, with £2.50
> marked, and the sticker is clearly over-stamped as used. The 2nd class
> stamp cannot have been added at the Post Office, as it would have been
> one of the new-fangled bar-code ones.
> What is going on? It is as though a bot has not seen the stamp, and has
> demanded a new £2.50 charge. I'll take it to my local Post Office
> tomorrow, and ask them. RM are still using Horizon software, aren't
> they?
> The only clue is that the envelope is about 1/2 inch longer, and about
> 1/4 inch wider, than a standard (D?) size long envelope. But looking
> at the latest price list, I can't find any way to come up with £2.50 as
> a charge. 2nd Class postage for it would appear to be 68p.
> Can anybody explain what is happening here?
>

If your item had insufficient postage or no stamps attached, a flat rate
fee will be charged as follows:

• Letters/Large Letters - no postage paid - £2.50 flat fee

https://personal.help.royalmail.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/143

PA

On 06/10/2022 19:26, Davey wrote:
> Yesterday, Royal Mail left a card telling me that I needed to pay £2.50
> for unpaid postage on an item to be delivered.
I had similar a few years ago, except I turned up in person at the
sorting office instead.

They brought out a Christmas Card, presumably oversized for the postage.

I told them them to bin it, and stuff their surcharge, and I walked off.

It seemed to annoy them. Have they really got nothing better to faff
about with ?

On 06/10/2022 19:26, Davey wrote:
> Yesterday, Royal Mail left a card telling me that I needed to pay £2.50
> for unpaid postage on an item to be delivered. I paid online, and
> today, the item was delivered. It was an envelope with one sheet of
> hand-written paper inside.
> But there is a 2nd Class stamp on the envelope. It is not franked, and
> is one of the old style. There is a new yellow sticker, with £2.50
> marked, and the sticker is clearly over-stamped as used. The 2nd class
> stamp cannot have been added at the Post Office, as it would have been
> one of the new-fangled bar-code ones.
> What is going on? It is as though a bot has not seen the stamp, and has
> demanded a new £2.50 charge. I'll take it to my local Post Office
> tomorrow, and ask them. RM are still using Horizon software, aren't
> they?
> The only clue is that the envelope is about 1/2 inch longer, and about
> 1/4 inch wider, than a standard (D?) size long envelope. But looking
> at the latest price list, I can't find any way to come up with £2.50 as
> a charge. 2nd Class postage for it would appear to be 68p.
> Can anybody explain what is happening here?

Royal Mail and the Post Office are two separate entities. No point in
complaining to the Post Office. Royal mail do have an online contact
form and I would use this.

On Sat, 8 Oct 2022 23:50:31 +0100
Fredxx <fredxx@spam.uk> wrote:

> On 06/10/2022 19:26, Davey wrote:
> > Yesterday, Royal Mail left a card telling me that I needed to pay
> > £2.50 for unpaid postage on an item to be delivered. I paid online,
> > and today, the item was delivered. It was an envelope with one
> > sheet of hand-written paper inside.
> > But there is a 2nd Class stamp on the envelope. It is not franked,
> > and is one of the old style. There is a new yellow sticker, with
> > £2.50 marked, and the sticker is clearly over-stamped as used. The
> > 2nd class stamp cannot have been added at the Post Office, as it
> > would have been one of the new-fangled bar-code ones.
> > What is going on? It is as though a bot has not seen the stamp, and
> > has demanded a new £2.50 charge. I'll take it to my local Post
> > Office tomorrow, and ask them. RM are still using Horizon software,
> > aren't they?
> > The only clue is that the envelope is about 1/2 inch longer, and
> > about 1/4 inch wider, than a standard (D?) size long envelope. But
> > looking at the latest price list, I can't find any way to come up
> > with £2.50 as a charge. 2nd Class postage for it would appear to be
> > 68p. Can anybody explain what is happening here?
>
> Royal Mail and the Post Office are two separate entities. No point in
> complaining to the Post Office. Royal mail do have an online contact
> form and I would use this.
>
>
>

Thanks, It's worth trying. It even said "No postage" rather than
"Insufficient postage", but there was a stamp on it.

--
Davey.

On Sun, 9 Oct 2022 08:24:28 +0100, Davey <davey@example.invalid>
wrote:

>
>Thanks, It's worth trying. It even said "No postage" rather than
>"Insufficient postage", but there was a stamp on it.

Maybe they think there is something wrong with the stamp, that it's a
fake/forgery.

On Mon, 10 Oct 2022 16:23:20 +0100
Peter Johnson <peter@parksidewood.nospam> wrote:

> On Sun, 9 Oct 2022 08:24:28 +0100, Davey <davey@example.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>
> >
> >Thanks, It's worth trying. It even said "No postage" rather than
> >"Insufficient postage", but there was a stamp on it.
>
> Maybe they think there is something wrong with the stamp, that it's a
> fake/forgery.

Maybe. But it would be nice to know.

I visited my local Post Office today, to mail a parcel, and I asked
them if they could see anything wrong with the envelope, but they
could see nothing wrong. Size was fine, stamp looked good.

I then went to the local Main Post Office cum Royal Mail depot, but the
sign very confusingly says, for each day: "08:000 -10:00 Closed".
except for Thursday, which had something different instead of "Closed",
but it has had a sticker placed on it to make it match every other day.
Apparently "08:00 - 10:00 Closed means: "Only open between 8 am and 10
am", although it is not exactly crystal clear, it could mean "Between
the hours of 8 am and 10 am we are Closed". Since it was about 11 am,
it was closed.

I can't get there tomorrow during that brief period, so I'll try the
Complaints procedure. I wonder how that will work.
--
Davey.

On Mon, 10 Oct 2022 17:02:56 +0100
Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:

> On Mon, 10 Oct 2022 16:23:20 +0100
> Peter Johnson <peter@parksidewood.nospam> wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 9 Oct 2022 08:24:28 +0100, Davey <davey@example.invalid>
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> > >
> > >Thanks, It's worth trying. It even said "No postage" rather than
> > >"Insufficient postage", but there was a stamp on it.
> >
> > Maybe they think there is something wrong with the stamp, that it's
> > a fake/forgery.
>
> Maybe. But it would be nice to know.
>
> I visited my local Post Office today, to mail a parcel, and I asked
> them if they could see anything wrong with the envelope, but they
> could see nothing wrong. Size was fine, stamp looked good.
>
> I then went to the local Main Post Office cum Royal Mail depot, but
> the sign very confusingly says, for each day: "08:000 -10:00 Closed".
> except for Thursday, which had something different instead of
> "Closed", but it has had a sticker placed on it to make it match
> every other day. Apparently "08:00 - 10:00 Closed means: "Only open
> between 8 am and 10 am", although it is not exactly crystal clear, it
> could mean "Between the hours of 8 am and 10 am we are Closed". Since
> it was about 11 am, it was closed.
>
> I can't get there tomorrow during that brief period, so I'll try the
> Complaints procedure. I wonder how that will work.

Phooey.
I tried to fill in the complaint form, but it keeps asking for the
Reference Number, which doesn't exist, and explicitly states that
without a Reference Number, it cannot accept the form. Catch-22.
Tomorrow, I'll try the 'phone.

--
Davey.

On Mon, 10 Oct 2022 23:08:44 +0100
Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:

> On Mon, 10 Oct 2022 17:02:56 +0100
> Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 10 Oct 2022 16:23:20 +0100
> > Peter Johnson <peter@parksidewood.nospam> wrote:
> >
> > > On Sun, 9 Oct 2022 08:24:28 +0100, Davey <davey@example.invalid>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >Thanks, It's worth trying. It even said "No postage" rather than
> > > >"Insufficient postage", but there was a stamp on it.
> > >
> > > Maybe they think there is something wrong with the stamp, that
> > > it's a fake/forgery.
> >
> > Maybe. But it would be nice to know.
> >
> > I visited my local Post Office today, to mail a parcel, and I asked
> > them if they could see anything wrong with the envelope, but they
> > could see nothing wrong. Size was fine, stamp looked good.
> >
> > I then went to the local Main Post Office cum Royal Mail depot, but
> > the sign very confusingly says, for each day: "08:000 -10:00
> > Closed". except for Thursday, which had something different instead
> > of "Closed", but it has had a sticker placed on it to make it match
> > every other day. Apparently "08:00 - 10:00 Closed means: "Only open
> > between 8 am and 10 am", although it is not exactly crystal clear,
> > it could mean "Between the hours of 8 am and 10 am we are Closed".
> > Since it was about 11 am, it was closed.
> >
> > I can't get there tomorrow during that brief period, so I'll try the
> > Complaints procedure. I wonder how that will work.
>
> Phooey.
> I tried to fill in the complaint form, but it keeps asking for the
> Reference Number, which doesn't exist, and explicitly states that
> without a Reference Number, it cannot accept the form. Catch-22.
> Tomorrow, I'll try the 'phone.
>

I finally managed to get to the Royal Mail office, at 08:15. I asked
why the envelope was deemed to have no postage paid, and they took it
in the back. When they came back, they informed me that the machine
was identifying the stamp as a counterfeit. I said that it looked ok to
me, and they said it looked ok to them as well, but it was a fake.
Apparently, they see lots of these, usually purchased, or on items
purchased, online.
I came home, and looked this up on the internet. Youtube has several
videos about this, it is amazing how much security there is in a
simple stamp. And sure enough, not all of the required security details
were there. Some were, some were not. I am now writimg to the senders,
an old couple who I don't think compute, to let them know.
One of the things to check is using a UV lamp. CPC's cheapest is £26,
e-bay has them for £3. Hmmm.
The stamp I will use for their letter is from a Royal Mail book of
stamps, purchased at my local Post Office, so shoud be good.
--
Davey.

Davey wrote:

> they informed me that the machine
> was identifying the stamp as a counterfeit.

Presumably not one of the shiny new bar-coded ones?

On Wed, 19 Oct 2022 12:22:36 +0100
Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:

> Davey wrote:
>
> > they informed me that the machine
> > was identifying the stamp as a counterfeit.
>
> Presumably not one of the shiny new bar-coded ones?

Correct.
--
Davey.