On Fri, 25 Mar 2022 13:08:08 -0000, whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Friday, 25 March 2022 at 12:41:54 UTC, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> On Fri, 25 Mar 2022 12:37:04 -0000, David (BD) <B...@nomale.afrayed.org> wrote:
>>
>> > On 25/03/2022 06:23, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> > [....]
>> >> Are macs still made without cooling fans, using convection only? If so
>> >> how can they be as powerful as PCs?
>> >
>> > My iMacs do have fans.
>> >
>> > My wife's MacBook Air - with an M1 chip - does NOT have a/any fans.
>> >
>> > https://www.engadget.com/apple-macbook-air-m1-cpu-182724460.html
>> >
>> > It feels solid and dependable - superb engineering in aluminium, not
>> > plastic.
>> You throw away money on that engineering.
>
> No, I was skyping a friend in australia, trouble was I couldn't hear him as I could hear was his laptop fan going full blast.
> Some crappy plastic fan in a plastic case doesn;t really work. Now Apple use well engineered metal fans (not the pound shop ones)
> with metal heatsinks and well enginnered air control so you harldy hear them.
> The only time I really hear mine are when I export 4K video.

I'd prefer that money went to making the CPU faster.

> > I prefer all the money to go to the electronics. 8 cores ROTFPMSL! The best computers are around 64 cores.
>
> Like the new make studio M1 Ultra with 20-core CPU, 64-core GPU and 32-core Neural Engine.
>
> Even the basic macbook air has 8 cores.

I don't think you can get a PC with only 8 cores. Are Apple finding those CPUs in a skip?

On Fri, 25 Mar 2022 13:08:08 -0000, whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Friday, 25 March 2022 at 12:41:54 UTC, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> On Fri, 25 Mar 2022 12:37:04 -0000, David (BD) <B...@nomale.afrayed.org> wrote:
>>
>> > On 25/03/2022 06:23, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> > [....]
>> >> Are macs still made without cooling fans, using convection only? If so
>> >> how can they be as powerful as PCs?
>> >
>> > My iMacs do have fans.
>> >
>> > My wife's MacBook Air - with an M1 chip - does NOT have a/any fans.
>> >
>> > https://www.engadget.com/apple-macbook-air-m1-cpu-182724460.html
>> >
>> > It feels solid and dependable - superb engineering in aluminium, not
>> > plastic.
>> You throw away money on that engineering.
>
> No, I was skyping a friend in australia, trouble was I couldn't hear him as I could hear was his laptop fan going full blast.
> Some crappy plastic fan in a plastic case doesn;t really work. Now Apple use well engineered metal fans (not the pound shop ones)
> with metal heatsinks and well enginnered air control so you harldy hear them.
> The only time I really hear mine are when I export 4K video.

I just bought a laser thermometer from China for £9 including postage, it actually works! I just tried it on various things in the room, myself, some parrots, and an electric fire. -50C to +600C.

On 25 Mar 2022 at 06:23:06 GMT, "Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

> On Thu, 24 Mar 2022 16:47:09 -0000, whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Thursday, 24 March 2022 at 14:46:53 UTC, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>> On Thu, 24 Mar 2022 13:51:42 -0000, whisky-dave <whisk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thursday, 24 March 2022 at 12:58:41 UTC, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 24 Mar 2022 12:40:22 -0000, whisky-dave <whisk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tuesday, 22 March 2022 at 19:33:42 UTC, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>>>> On Mon, 21 Mar 2022 15:22:18 -0000, whisky-dave <whisk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Friday, 18 March 2022 at 17:06:54 UTC, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 18 Mar 2022 16:11:57 -0000, whisky-dave <whisk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, 18 March 2022 at 14:52:58 UTC, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 18 Mar 2022 13:49:23 -0000, whisky-dave <whisk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, 18 March 2022 at 13:03:01 UTC, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 18 Mar 2022 12:38:48 -0000, whisky-dave <whisk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, 18 March 2022 at 12:01:05 UTC, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 18 Mar 2022 11:18:01 -0000, David Brooks <B...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes - switched to geographic features long ago!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OS X 10 beta: Kodiak - 13 September 2000
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OS X 10.0: Cheetah - 24 March 2001
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OS X 10.1: Puma - 25 September 2001
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OS X 10.2: Jaguar - 24 August 2002
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OS X 10.3 Panther (Pinot) - 24 October 2003
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OS X 10.4 Tiger (Merlot) - 29 April 2005
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [OS X 10.4.4 Tiger (Chardonnay)]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OS X 10.5 Leopard (Chablis) - 26 October 2007
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - 28 August 2009
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OS X 10.7 Lion (Barolo) - 20 July 2011
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion (Zinfandel) - 25 July 2012
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OS X 10.9 Mavericks (Cabernet) - 22 October 2013
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OS X 10.10: Yosemite (Syrah) - 16 October 2014
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OS X 10.11: El Capitan (Gala) - 30 September 2015
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> macOS 10.12: Sierra (Fuji) - 20 September 2016
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> macOS 10.13: High Sierra (Lobo) - 25 September 2017
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> macOS 10.14: Mojave (Liberty) - 24 September 2018
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> macOS 10.15: Catalina (Jazz) - 7 October 2019
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> macOS 11: Big Sur - 12 November 2020
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> macOS 12: Monterey - 25 October 2021
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh that really is childish, look how they started going up in whole numbers. 19 years of point something, then suddenly two whole numbers in 2 years. It's a competition between them and Microsoft to have a higher number.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nothing to do with MS and whole numbers. It is how updates work.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If it's a minor u[pdate or bug fix you don;t need a whole number change.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mac OS 1 started in 1984.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In those days updates were'nt as regualar as there was little point in sending out new discs every few days.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It wasn;t until easy downloads for most were availbe that it was worth doing such small regular increments.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mac OS X or 10. was a totally new system based on uniX
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Incorrect. My Windows 11 is 10.0.22000.556 if you ask it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I also don't believe Apple released only minor changes for 19 years, then suddenly came up with two major changes in 2 years.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I never said minor changes or updates, I said increments.
>>>>>>>>>>> You said "If it's a minor u[pdate or bug fix you don;t need a whole number change."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Correct regarding intergers
>>>>>>>>>> Recently my firefox went from 97.0.1 to 97.0.2 which just fixed a few bugs.
>>>>>>>>> Yeah, so Firefox have made 96 significant changes, I don't think so.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No one said it has.
>>>>>>> But the first number is for a major change - you said so yourself:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No I used the word increment nothing to do with first numbers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Nothing to do with MS and whole numbers. It is how updates work. If it's a minor update or bug fix you don't need a whole number change."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yep.
>>>>> So you're saying a big change is the first number, and a small change is other numbers. so Firefox are being silly when they say 96 major changes.
>>>>>>>> What about windows 5, 6 and 9 ?
>>>>>>> Marketing bullshit, they decided years or names would be better. No different to the the animal bullshit from Apple. Is a tiger better than a leopard? Who knows? Only David Attenborough.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They are differnt animals and I'm sure there's no order of which animal is best, it's just a label.
>>>>>> A bit like windows millennium and what about XP, CE and vista.
>>>>> I agree they're all stupid, they should just be numbers. I have no idea if a lollipop is better than a mars bar on Android either.
>>>>
>>>> My students have names but I organise them by email number of group number.
>>> Indeed, when I studied we all had a "matriculation number".
>>
>> Now that does sound a bit borg like. We have student number but I rarely see that number.
>
> Are macs still made without cooling fans, using convection only? If so how can they be as powerful as PCs?

No.

--
Tim

On Fri, 25 Mar 2022 16:24:11 -0000, TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:

> On 25 Mar 2022 at 06:23:06 GMT, "Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 24 Mar 2022 16:47:09 -0000, whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thursday, 24 March 2022 at 14:46:53 UTC, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 24 Mar 2022 13:51:42 -0000, whisky-dave <whisk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Thursday, 24 March 2022 at 12:58:41 UTC, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>>> On Thu, 24 Mar 2022 12:40:22 -0000, whisky-dave <whisk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Nothing to do with MS and whole numbers. It is how updates work. If it's a minor update or bug fix you don't need a whole number change."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yep.
>>>>>> So you're saying a big change is the first number, and a small change is other numbers. so Firefox are being silly when they say 96 major changes.
>>>>>>>>> What about windows 5, 6 and 9 ?
>>>>>>>> Marketing bullshit, they decided years or names would be better. No different to the the animal bullshit from Apple. Is a tiger better than a leopard? Who knows? Only David Attenborough.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> They are differnt animals and I'm sure there's no order of which animal is best, it's just a label.
>>>>>>> A bit like windows millennium and what about XP, CE and vista.
>>>>>> I agree they're all stupid, they should just be numbers. I have no idea if a lollipop is better than a mars bar on Android either.
>>>>>
>>>>> My students have names but I organise them by email number of group number.
>>>> Indeed, when I studied we all had a "matriculation number".
>>>
>>> Now that does sound a bit borg like. We have student number but I rarely see that number.
>>
>> Are macs still made without cooling fans, using convection only? If so how can they be as powerful as PCs?
>
> No.

So they stopped that crazy idea then. Was that a Jobs obsession?

On 3/21/22 3:48 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Mar 2022 14:43:36 -0000, Jaimie Vandenbergh
> <jaimie@usually.sessile.org> wrote:
>
>> On 18 Mar 2022 at 14:52:52 GMT, ""Commander Kinsey"" <CK1@nospam.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I have the latest Windows on a 13 year old PC
>>
>> Do you really? That's pretty impressive given the system requirement of
>> TPM 2 wasn't released until 2014, and another requirement DirectX 12 is
>> from 2015. Well done on your breathtaking foresight.
>
> [assuming sarcasm]
>
> Do some research before you attempt to poke fun.
>
> Those are not requirements to run it, those are fake requirements to
> install it.  I bypassed them.

Please explain HOW you did so (for Jamie's benefit)

Thanks.

On Sun, 27 Mar 2022 10:43:29 +0100, David Brooks <david@blocknews.invalid> wrote:

> On 3/21/22 3:48 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> On Mon, 21 Mar 2022 14:43:36 -0000, Jaimie Vandenbergh
>> <jaimie@usually.sessile.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 18 Mar 2022 at 14:52:52 GMT, ""Commander Kinsey"" <CK1@nospam.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have the latest Windows on a 13 year old PC
>>>
>>> Do you really? That's pretty impressive given the system requirement of
>>> TPM 2 wasn't released until 2014, and another requirement DirectX 12 is
>>> from 2015. Well done on your breathtaking foresight.
>>
>> [assuming sarcasm]
>>
>> Do some research before you attempt to poke fun.
>>
>> Those are not requirements to run it, those are fake requirements to
>> install it. I bypassed them.
>
> Please explain HOW you did so (for Jamie's benefit)
>
> Thanks.

I can't remember exactly. You need a program called "Rufus" (I can email or post it somewhere, but I it's freeware online somewhere). It will download a Windows 11 image for you and create a USB stick (you only need 8GB), which you can then either boot from, or use to upgrade. There's an option in it to ignore TPM and other requirements.