Hi all,

To those who may know their Vauxhall engines, especially the 2004 era
1.6 8V Z16SE ...

Long short, in a bit of a hurry to change the oil and go on a 200 mile
round trip (take the Mrs to her sisters to convalesce after a cataract
op as she also has dementia) I tried to use my suction system rather
than getting the ramps, drain tray and other tools out to do an oil
change on the Meriva. I only do ~1500 miles a year but an oil change was
due and I had suffered some misfires (P0300/4), changed the plugs and
wanted to give it some fresh oil as it was also a bit 'tappety'.

The suction pump comes with a fine soft copper pick-up tube and 3
polypropylene / polyethylene stiff plastic type tubes of different
diameters.

I started with the copper tube and whilst it was working ok but going to
take a while ... I tried going up to the mid sized plastic tube and as I
inserted it, I had a horrible feeling ... and found I couldn't pull it
out again. ;-(

I've tried pulling and pushing and twisting and threading a stiff wire
down the middle but I think it's stuck though what seems like a tin pan
/ sheet that is fitted in the bottom of the sump.

https://nemigaparts.com/cat_spares/epc/opel/t98/e5/16/

eg. If I pull the pipe hard (I still have about 40cm sticking out the
dipstick tube) I can feel the tin 'giving' but feel if I pull harder it
might... damage the plate, cut the pipe off or 'skin' something off the
side of the pipe, leaving it in the sump.

However, there is a ~80mm square plate on the side of the sump that is
the oil level switch assy, right next to where the dipstick tube joins
the block and I was wondering if I removed that, if I could see in and
either release the tube allowing it to be withdrawn or even cut off and
the lose end recovered. I could also use a bore/endoscope though the
same hole or maybe the drain?

If I did just pull the tube out and it should cut a section off on the
sharp edge of this tin leaving it in the sump, given I understand this
sort of plastic is fairly oil / fuel safe, could it just stay in the
sump and do no harm, given it would have to go though any mesh and the
oil filter to get into any of the smaller oil-ways?

Cheers, T i m

>
> eg. If I pull the pipe hard (I still have about 40cm sticking out the
> dipstick tube)

Could that possily be 40mm ?

--
random signature text inserted here

On 24/05/2023 12:00, Abandoned_Trolley wrote:
>
>>
>> eg. If I pull the pipe hard (I still have about 40cm sticking out the
>> dipstick tube)
>
>
> Could that possily be 40mm ?
>
No, it's a good length of tube, enough to come out of the dipstick tube,
up though the engine lifting eye on the top of the head and back down some.

https://ibb.co/ccz89F9

(That picture shows the dirty pipe sticking out of the dipstick tube and
the clean next size pipe up just laying on the engine).

Basically I just pushed enough of the pipe down the dipstick tube till I
felt it should be near the bottom of the sump, though I'd check that it
could also be pulled back out, only to find it couldn't. ;-(

So there is plenty to hold onto to (try to) yank it back out, part of
the question was 'should I' try to do that (harder than I have already)?

As mentioned, if I do pull fairly hard on it it feels fairly well
anchored on something but that something 'gives' slightly as you pull
it, like it was caught by the sharp edge of a baffle and that baffle
bending as I pull.

So if I was to pull it till something gave ...

1) ... it could be the baffle cutting though the pipe and however much
pipe is sticking past the baffle being left in the sump.

2) ... it could be the baffle giving / bending a bit to let go of the pipe.

3) ... it could be a combination of the above where it shaves some
plastic off the side of the pipe as it's dragged past the plate, leaving
the shaving in the sump.

4) ... it could be the baffle tearing off it's mounts and still not
letting go of the pipe or

5) ... it could be the pipe breaking free and being withdrawn intact.

So before I try any of the brute force things and possibly end up with
damage or some plastic pipe loose in the sump, remove the oil level
float assy and seeing if I can see the end of the pip and possibly
release it or grab it with something and cutting it free with a long
chisel or summat?

Cheers, T i m

On 24/05/2023 12:50, T i m wrote:
> On 24/05/2023 12:00, Abandoned_Trolley wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> eg. If I pull the pipe hard (I still have about 40cm sticking out the
>>> dipstick tube)
>>
>>
>> Could that possily be 40mm ?
>>
> No, it's a good length of tube, enough to come out of the dipstick tube,
> up though the engine lifting eye on the top of the head and back down some.
>
> https://ibb.co/ccz89F9
>
> (That picture shows the dirty pipe sticking out of the dipstick tube and
> the clean next size pipe up just laying on the engine).
>
> Basically I just pushed enough of the pipe down the dipstick tube till I
> felt it should be near the bottom of the sump, though I'd check that it
> could also be pulled back out, only to find it couldn't. ;-(
>
> So there is plenty to hold onto to (try to) yank it back out, part of
> the question was 'should I' try to do that (harder than I have already)?
>
> As mentioned, if I do pull fairly hard on it it feels fairly well
> anchored on something but that something 'gives' slightly as you pull
> it, like it was caught by the sharp edge of a baffle and that baffle
> bending as I pull.
>
> So if I was to pull it till something gave ...
>
> 1) ... it could be the baffle cutting though the pipe and however much
> pipe is sticking past the baffle being left in the sump.
>
> 2) ... it could be the baffle giving / bending a bit to let go of the pipe.
>
> 3) ... it could be a combination of the above where it shaves some
> plastic off the side of the pipe as it's dragged past the plate, leaving
> the shaving in the sump.
>
> 4) ... it could be the baffle tearing off it's mounts and still not
> letting go of the pipe or
>
> 5) ... it could be the pipe breaking free and being withdrawn intact.
>
> So before I try any of the brute force things and possibly end up with
> damage or some plastic pipe loose in the sump, remove the oil level
> float assy and seeing if I can see the end of the pip and possibly
> release it or grab it with something and cutting it free with a long
> chisel or summat?

Could it just be that the sump end of the dip-stick tube has sharp edges
and is just digging into the side of the tube. The more you pull the
deeper the slice into the wall of the plastic. If this is the case you
may have push the plastic tube in a bit further until it feels free and
then rotate it as you remove it. The plastic tube seems a lot narrower
than the dip-stick tube so what about putting the end of the plastic
tube in a drill chuck to turn it as you are removing it.
>
> Cheers, T i m

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 24/05/2023 14:18, alan_m wrote:
<snip>
>> So before I try any of the brute force things and possibly end up with
>> damage or some plastic pipe loose in the sump, remove the oil level
>> float assy and seeing if I can see the end of the pip and possibly
>> release it or grab it with something and cutting it free with a long
>> chisel or summat?
>
> Could it just be that the sump end of the dip-stick tube has sharp edges
> and is just digging into the side of the tube. The more you pull the
> deeper the slice into the wall of the plastic.
I initially thought that Alan but I don't think is the case in this case.

> If this is the case you
> may have push the plastic tube in a bit further until it feels free and
> then rotate it as you remove it.
I can push the tube back in say 6" and it comes out 6" freely again but
then stops dead once you have taken up the slack. It's perfectly
possible there is a sharp edge inside the bottom of the tube but I don't
think it's that that's holding it in this case.

> The plastic tube seems a lot narrower
> than the dip-stick tube
Yeah, even the next size up plastic pipe easily fits down the straight
bit of the dipstick tube but I wouldn't have risked pushing it past the
joggle for the reason I'm in now! ;-(

> so what about putting the end of the plastic
> tube in a drill chuck to turn it as you are removing it.
Therein lies another issue. When I had the coat-hanger down inside the
stuck plastic tube I could bend the top of the pipe over 90" to form a
handle, allowing me to easier turn / twist the pipe. However, because of
how it's not stuck, it never seems to actually rotate and just wants to
untwist when you let go of it again.

I was able to have the large 'O'-ring / gasket delivered today that
seals the oil level indicator onto the sump beside the dipstick tube and
have dug out my flexible 'grabber' in readiness. Mate has a decent semi
flexible borescope so I'm hoping with it up on ramps, the level sender
off and the mini Maglight we might be able to see what's happened and
free / cut / capture the stuck bit?

Cheers, T i m

On 24/05/2023 10:10, T i m wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> To those who may know their Vauxhall engines, especially the 2004 era
> 1.6 8V Z16SE ...
>
> Long short, in a bit of a hurry to change the oil and go on a 200 mile
> round trip (take the Mrs to her sisters to convalesce after a cataract
> op as she also has dementia) I tried to use my suction system rather
> than getting the ramps, drain tray and other tools out to do an oil
> change on the Meriva. I only do ~1500 miles a year but an oil change was
> due and I had suffered some misfires (P0300/4), changed the plugs and
> wanted to give it some fresh oil as it was also a bit 'tappety'.
>
> The suction pump comes with a fine soft copper pick-up tube and 3
> polypropylene / polyethylene stiff plastic type tubes of different
> diameters.
>
> I started with the copper tube and whilst it was working ok but going to
> take a while ... I tried going up to the mid sized plastic tube and as I
> inserted it, I had a horrible feeling ... and found I couldn't pull it
> out again. ;-(
>
> I've tried pulling and pushing and twisting and threading a stiff wire
> down the middle but I think it's stuck though what seems like a tin pan
> / sheet that is fitted in the bottom of the sump.
>
> https://nemigaparts.com/cat_spares/epc/opel/t98/e5/16/
>
> eg. If I pull the pipe hard (I still have about 40cm sticking out the
> dipstick tube) I can feel the tin 'giving' but feel if I pull harder it
> might... damage the plate, cut the pipe off or 'skin' something off the
> side of the pipe, leaving it in the sump.
>
> However, there is a ~80mm square plate on the side of the sump that is
> the oil level switch assy, right next to where the dipstick tube joins
> the block and I was wondering if I removed that, if I could see in and
> either release the tube allowing it to be withdrawn or even cut off and
> the lose end recovered. I could also use a bore/endoscope though the
> same hole or maybe the drain?
>
> If I did just pull the tube out and it should cut a section off on the
> sharp edge of this tin leaving it in the sump, given I understand this
> sort of plastic is fairly oil / fuel safe, could it just stay in the
> sump and do no harm, given it would have to go though any mesh and the
> oil filter to get into any of the smaller oil-ways?

As a general rule the dipstick tube is a push fit into the block and
with the undoing of a retaining bolt can normally be removed.

Is that feasible? Seems a lot less hassle that the alternatives.

Update in case it helps someone else some day ...

I ran the car over to a neighbour / mate and ha tried to get the pipe
free for about 20 minutes with no luck.

So we got the car up on ramps (something I should have done in the first
place to change the oil ...) and drained the oil.

We tried a couple of USB CAMs up the drain hole but really couldn't see
anything of use.

I then removed the oil level sensor plate and was able to grab the pipe
with my fingers and pull the free end down the dipstick hole and out of
the sump. The stuck end remained very stuck. ;-(

Mate had the idea of threading the free end back out of the sump drain
and try pulling it backwards pulling but I didn't want to get go of the
pipe we now had access to do we took a wire coathanger, straighten it
out then folded it in half and looped that round the pipe and let it go
into the sump as we pulled the pipe out of the drain.

It again came to a dead halt but then with me alternately pulling the
coathanger hoop forwards and him the pipe back, it came free!

There was a 45 degree cut across the pipe about 20 mm from the end and
so that was where it had curled up in the bottom of the sump and up
though a hole in the baffle or between the baffle and sump and cut in
and trapped.

So, I replaced the filter, re fitted the sump plug and the oil level
float plate with new O-rings, re-filled it with oil and am now back on
the road. ;-)

Thanks to all who offered help.

Cheers, T i m