Hi,

New to this group. Is there such a thing as a device that can automatically
re-pressurise a central heating system? I have a gas boiler that feeds both
a hot water cylinder and a radiator circuit. Over time, a couple of months,
the system loses enough pressure to stop the boiler. It has a manual
filling loop. Is there a device that can just do this automatically? If
there is, is there any protection against flood if, say, there is a pipe
failure?

On 16/10/2022 18:15, Tweed wrote:

> New to this group. Is there such a thing as a device that can automatically
> re-pressurise a central heating system? I have a gas boiler that feeds both
> a hot water cylinder and a radiator circuit. Over time, a couple of months,
> the system loses enough pressure to stop the boiler. It has a manual
> filling loop. Is there a device that can just do this automatically? If
> there is, is there any protection against flood if, say, there is a pipe
> failure?

You must have a bit of a leak somewhere. Might be soaking the carpet
somewhere or causing mould or rot.

If you leave the filling loop in place (which they deprecate) it's just
a matter of opening a couple of valves to repressurise.

--
Max Demian

Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> On 16/10/2022 18:15, Tweed wrote:
>
>> New to this group. Is there such a thing as a device that can automatically
>> re-pressurise a central heating system? I have a gas boiler that feeds both
>> a hot water cylinder and a radiator circuit. Over time, a couple of months,
>> the system loses enough pressure to stop the boiler. It has a manual
>> filling loop. Is there a device that can just do this automatically? If
>> there is, is there any protection against flood if, say, there is a pipe
>> failure?
>
> You must have a bit of a leak somewhere. Might be soaking the carpet
> somewhere or causing mould or rot.
>
> If you leave the filling loop in place (which they deprecate) it's just
> a matter of opening a couple of valves to repressurise.
>

I’ve spent 12 years looking for the leak without luck.

Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
> Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>> On 16/10/2022 18:15, Tweed wrote:
>>
>>> New to this group. Is there such a thing as a device that can automatically
>>> re-pressurise a central heating system? I have a gas boiler that feeds both
>>> a hot water cylinder and a radiator circuit. Over time, a couple of months,
>>> the system loses enough pressure to stop the boiler. It has a manual
>>> filling loop. Is there a device that can just do this automatically? If
>>> there is, is there any protection against flood if, say, there is a pipe
>>> failure?
>>
>> You must have a bit of a leak somewhere. Might be soaking the carpet
>> somewhere or causing mould or rot.
>>
>> If you leave the filling loop in place (which they deprecate) it's just
>> a matter of opening a couple of valves to repressurise.
>>
>
> I’ve spent 12 years looking for the leak without luck.
>
>

After years of being sceptical of the stuff, I chucked a couple of litres
of leak-sealer in my system which slowly lost pressure. Seems to have
worked.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 16 Oct 2022 at 18:20:26 BST, Max Demian wrote:

> If you leave the filling loop in place (which they deprecate) it's just
> a matter of opening a couple of valves to repressurise.

Why is/was it considered a bad idea to leave the loop in place?

It's actually a plumbed in pipe on my latest boiler, but I remember it being a
removable braided hose in the past.

--
Cheers, Rob, Sheffield UK

RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
> On 16 Oct 2022 at 18:20:26 BST, Max Demian wrote:
>
>> If you leave the filling loop in place (which they deprecate) it's just
>> a matter of opening a couple of valves to repressurise.
>
> Why is/was it considered a bad idea to leave the loop in place?
>
> It's actually a plumbed in pipe on my latest boiler, but I remember it being a
> removable braided hose in the past.
>

I suspect either the regs have changed or the addition of non-return valves
makes it okay. Certainly my daughter’s boiler’s filling loop is “hard
plumbed”.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 16/10/2022 18:15, Tweed wrote:
> Hi,
>
> New to this group. Is there such a thing as a device that can automatically
> re-pressurise a central heating system? I have a gas boiler that feeds both
> a hot water cylinder and a radiator circuit. Over time, a couple of months,
> the system loses enough pressure to stop the boiler. It has a manual
> filling loop. Is there a device that can just do this automatically? If
> there is, is there any protection against flood if, say, there is a pipe
> failure?

I believe it's called a vented system, with automatic replenishment of
water if the level drops! :-)

In message <tihfaf$36fl2$1@dont-email.me>, Tweed
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> writes
>Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>> On 16/10/2022 18:15, Tweed wrote:
>>
>>> New to this group. Is there such a thing as a device that can automatically
>>> re-pressurise a central heating system? I have a gas boiler that feeds both
>>> a hot water cylinder and a radiator circuit. Over time, a couple of months,
>>> the system loses enough pressure to stop the boiler. It has a manual
>>> filling loop. Is there a device that can just do this automatically? If
>>> there is, is there any protection against flood if, say, there is a pipe
>>> failure?
>>
>> You must have a bit of a leak somewhere. Might be soaking the carpet
>> somewhere or causing mould or rot.
>>
>> If you leave the filling loop in place (which they deprecate) it's just
>> a matter of opening a couple of valves to repressurise.
>>
>
>I’ve spent 12 years looking for the leak without luck.

Any chance your system is going over pressure leading to the boiler
relief valve opening?
>

--
Tim Lamb

Tim Lamb <tim@marfordfarm.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <tihfaf$36fl2$1@dont-email.me>, Tweed
> <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> writes
>> Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>>> On 16/10/2022 18:15, Tweed wrote:
>>>
>>>> New to this group. Is there such a thing as a device that can automatically
>>>> re-pressurise a central heating system? I have a gas boiler that feeds both
>>>> a hot water cylinder and a radiator circuit. Over time, a couple of months,
>>>> the system loses enough pressure to stop the boiler. It has a manual
>>>> filling loop. Is there a device that can just do this automatically? If
>>>> there is, is there any protection against flood if, say, there is a pipe
>>>> failure?
>>>
>>> You must have a bit of a leak somewhere. Might be soaking the carpet
>>> somewhere or causing mould or rot.
>>>
>>> If you leave the filling loop in place (which they deprecate) it's just
>>> a matter of opening a couple of valves to repressurise.
>>>
>>
>> I’ve spent 12 years looking for the leak without luck.
>
> Any chance your system is going over pressure leading to the boiler
> relief valve opening?
>>
>

Possibly. I’ve seen the pressure indicator go high. But how does that
eventually lead to zero pressure?

Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
> Tim Lamb <tim@marfordfarm.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <tihfaf$36fl2$1@dont-email.me>, Tweed
>> <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> writes
>>> Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>>>> On 16/10/2022 18:15, Tweed wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> New to this group. Is there such a thing as a device that can automatically
>>>>> re-pressurise a central heating system? I have a gas boiler that feeds both
>>>>> a hot water cylinder and a radiator circuit. Over time, a couple of months,
>>>>> the system loses enough pressure to stop the boiler. It has a manual
>>>>> filling loop. Is there a device that can just do this automatically? If
>>>>> there is, is there any protection against flood if, say, there is a pipe
>>>>> failure?
>>>>
>>>> You must have a bit of a leak somewhere. Might be soaking the carpet
>>>> somewhere or causing mould or rot.
>>>>
>>>> If you leave the filling loop in place (which they deprecate) it's just
>>>> a matter of opening a couple of valves to repressurise.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I’ve spent 12 years looking for the leak without luck.
>>
>> Any chance your system is going over pressure leading to the boiler
>> relief valve opening?
>>>
>>
>
> Possibly. I’ve seen the pressure indicator go high. But how does that
> eventually lead to zero pressure?
>
>

Pressure relief valve only opens when the system is hot and over pressure.
Once cold, the pressure can drop to zero. Usual cause is loss of expansion
vessel capacity due to either failed diaphragm or other loss of air
pressure in the expansion vessel.

Stick a bag or bottle on the overflow to see if water is coming out this
way.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 16/10/2022 18:15, Tweed wrote:

> Hi,
>
> New to this group. Is there such a thing as a device that can automatically
> re-pressurise a central heating system?

I suppose one could lash up something with a pressure reduction valve
and a double check valve.

However it kind of negates some of the advantages of the sealed system;
in that you can get an uncontrolled flood, and you won't be continually
injecting fresh oxygenated water into the system which dilutes the
inhibitor and cause more corrosion.

> I have a gas boiler that feeds both
> a hot water cylinder and a radiator circuit. Over time, a couple of months,
> the system loses enough pressure to stop the boiler.

Checking that it is not going overpressure is worth doing. However very
small leaks in pipes or radiators might not show up as a leak since the
water may evaporate before it gets a chance to chow up.

Are you also getting lots of air collecting in the system? (leaks can
also let air in)

One final case to consider with modern condensing boilers, is one that
affected my system; and is one that it can be very hard to find. Namely
a leak inside the boilers main heat exchanger, since the water will be
directed straight to the condensate drain and never show up anywhere in
the pipework.

See:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Vaillant_Ecotec_plus_624_repair

> It has a manual
> filling loop. Is there a device that can just do this automatically? If
> there is, is there any protection against flood if, say, there is a pipe
> failure?

Again it might be possible, but it is getting more complicated.

--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

On 16/10/2022 22:04, Tweed wrote:

>
> Possibly. I’ve seen the pressure indicator go high. But how does that
> eventually lead to zero pressure?
>

There will be a safety pressure release value to dump a small amount of
water when the pressure is too high. When the system cools down again
the pressure drops but it will be lower than previously because some
water has been removed. It doesn't take much loss of water to reduce the
pressure and it may only be small amounts every time the boiler is run.

It may only happen, say, when thermostatic valves start closing down in
your system.

How high does the pressure in you system rise to when everything has
reached its final operating temperature?

As others have indicated, there may be a small leak or an expansion
vessel is not working correctly.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

In message <tihrl2$37qur$1@dont-email.me>, Tweed
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> writes
>Tim Lamb <tim@marfordfarm.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <tihfaf$36fl2$1@dont-email.me>, Tweed
>> <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> writes
>>> Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>>>> On 16/10/2022 18:15, Tweed wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> New to this group. Is there such a thing as a device that can
>>>>>automatically
>>>>> re-pressurise a central heating system? I have a gas boiler that
>>>>>feeds both
>>>>> a hot water cylinder and a radiator circuit. Over time, a couple
>>>>>of months,
>>>>> the system loses enough pressure to stop the boiler. It has a manual
>>>>> filling loop. Is there a device that can just do this automatically? If
>>>>> there is, is there any protection against flood if, say, there is a pipe
>>>>> failure?
>>>>
>>>> You must have a bit of a leak somewhere. Might be soaking the carpet
>>>> somewhere or causing mould or rot.
>>>>
>>>> If you leave the filling loop in place (which they deprecate) it's just
>>>> a matter of opening a couple of valves to repressurise.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I’ve spent 12 years looking for the leak without luck.
>>
>> Any chance your system is going over pressure leading to the boiler
>> relief valve opening?
>>>
>>
>
>Possibly. I’ve seen the pressure indicator go high. But how does that
>eventually lead to zero pressure?
I am not a plumber!

Modern boilers are fitted with an over pressure valve usually arranged
to discharge to a safe area (can be a pipe through your outside wall
terminated with a T outlet to avoid hot water being squirted at passing
Cats).

Other posters have suggested tying a plastic bag over this to trap
discharges.

Boilers also have a condensate drain which should run to a suitable
waste outlet. Sadly, my plumbers linked the two together:-(

Your installation should include a *pressure vessel*. Basically a
container with gas trapped by a flexible diaphragm. Might be built in to
the boiler housing or installed separately.

The d-i-y Wiki will give chapter and verse on problems of this nature.

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Main_Page
>

--
Tim Lamb

Yes a now dead relative of mine found a small steam vent under the floor in
his airing cupboard where a joint was sor of dangling between two clips and
over time had started to leak. I'd suspect this is the sort of slow leak
that can cause this. In his case it was a short tighten and adding a
support. Brian

--

--:
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Max Demian" <max_demian@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:tihegq$36d1t$1@dont-email.me...
> On 16/10/2022 18:15, Tweed wrote:
>
>> New to this group. Is there such a thing as a device that can
>> automatically
>> re-pressurise a central heating system? I have a gas boiler that feeds
>> both
>> a hot water cylinder and a radiator circuit. Over time, a couple of
>> months,
>> the system loses enough pressure to stop the boiler. It has a manual
>> filling loop. Is there a device that can just do this automatically? If
>> there is, is there any protection against flood if, say, there is a pipe
>> failure?
>
> You must have a bit of a leak somewhere. Might be soaking the carpet
> somewhere or causing mould or rot.
>
> If you leave the filling loop in place (which they deprecate) it's just a
> matter of opening a couple of valves to repressurise.
>
> --
> Max Demian
>

On 16/10/2022 18:34, Tweed wrote:
> Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>> On 16/10/2022 18:15, Tweed wrote:
>>
>>> New to this group. Is there such a thing as a device that can automatically
>>> re-pressurise a central heating system? I have a gas boiler that feeds both
>>> a hot water cylinder and a radiator circuit. Over time, a couple of months,
>>> the system loses enough pressure to stop the boiler. It has a manual
>>> filling loop. Is there a device that can just do this automatically? If
>>> there is, is there any protection against flood if, say, there is a pipe
>>> failure?
>>
>> You must have a bit of a leak somewhere. Might be soaking the carpet
>> somewhere or causing mould or rot.
>>
>> If you leave the filling loop in place (which they deprecate) it's just
>> a matter of opening a couple of valves to repressurise.
>>
>
> I’ve spent 12 years looking for the leak without luck.
>

So did I, until I realised there was no leak of water in the CH system,
only a weeping joint in the boiler itself which was always hot and
always evaporated leaving just a chalky salt residue where it couldn't
be seen.
TW

On 16/10/2022 22:04, Tweed wrote:
> Tim Lamb <tim@marfordfarm.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <tihfaf$36fl2$1@dont-email.me>, Tweed
>> <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> writes
>>> Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>>>> On 16/10/2022 18:15, Tweed wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> New to this group. Is there such a thing as a device that can automatically
>>>>> re-pressurise a central heating system? I have a gas boiler that feeds both
>>>>> a hot water cylinder and a radiator circuit. Over time, a couple of months,
>>>>> the system loses enough pressure to stop the boiler. It has a manual
>>>>> filling loop. Is there a device that can just do this automatically? If
>>>>> there is, is there any protection against flood if, say, there is a pipe
>>>>> failure?
>>>>
>>>> You must have a bit of a leak somewhere. Might be soaking the carpet
>>>> somewhere or causing mould or rot.
>>>>
>>>> If you leave the filling loop in place (which they deprecate) it's just
>>>> a matter of opening a couple of valves to repressurise.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I’ve spent 12 years looking for the leak without luck.
>>
>> Any chance your system is going over pressure leading to the boiler
>> relief valve opening?

> Possibly. I’ve seen the pressure indicator go high. But how does that
> eventually lead to zero pressure?

If the pressure gauge is faulty you won't know what it is. I had one
that had to be replaced as it read 1 bar after it had been disconnected.

--
Max Demian

On 16/10/2022 19:36, RJH wrote:
> On 16 Oct 2022 at 18:20:26 BST, Max Demian wrote:
>
>> If you leave the filling loop in place (which they deprecate) it's just
>> a matter of opening a couple of valves to repressurise.
>
> Why is/was it considered a bad idea to leave the loop in place?

It is/was thought that a faulty valve, or a valve not properly closed,
could lead to a leak of dirty radiator water into the drinking water.

(Mine is left in place since the Gas Man used it a couple of years ago.)

I wonder how long it will be before we can stop turning out bathroom
lights with a bit of string like most other countries?)

--
Max Demian