We have a small unused chest freezer in our garage. We also have a tall
fridge/freezer combo that we use for beer and wine. The freezer part of it
really can’t be relied on in cold weather so we don’t use it. As a beer
fridge, it’s probably not terribly efficient.

That got me wondering if I could just change the stat on the chest freezer
to turn in into a fridge. I presume being top opening it would avoid all
the cold air loss that the upright one suffers from and might be better
insulated and hence cheaper to run.

The only thing stopping me just swapping the stat is that there is no sign
of an internal temperature probe inside the chest freezer. It’s just a flat
sided box. Where is the temperature probe hidden in chest freezers?

Any reason NOT to convert it to a fridge?

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

Tim+ <tim.downie@gmail.com> wrote:
> We have a small unused chest freezer in our garage. We also have a tall
> fridge/freezer combo that we use for beer and wine. The freezer part of it
> really can’t be relied on in cold weather so we don’t use it. As a beer
> fridge, it’s probably not terribly efficient.
>
> That got me wondering if I could just change the stat on the chest freezer
> to turn in into a fridge. I presume being top opening it would avoid all
> the cold air loss that the upright one suffers from and might be better
> insulated and hence cheaper to run.
>
> The only thing stopping me just swapping the stat is that there is no sign
> of an internal temperature probe inside the chest freezer. It’s just a flat
> sided box. Where is the temperature probe hidden in chest freezers?
>
> Any reason NOT to convert it to a fridge?
>
> Tim
>

The fridge / freezer that doesn’t work as well as you’d like, have you
checked it is rated to work in an outbuilding?

If you plan to use a fridge or freezer in an outbuilding / garage etc, you
should check it is rated to work at lower ambient temperatures. If it
isn’t, odd as it seems, it may well not cool properly.

As for converting the freezer, possibly but it may tend to over shoot. I
would assume, having switched to cooling, it would be set up to ‘work
harder’ as a freezer than you will need as fridge.

Brian <noinv@lid.org> wrote:
> Tim+ <tim.downie@gmail.com> wrote:
>> We have a small unused chest freezer in our garage. We also have a tall
>> fridge/freezer combo that we use for beer and wine. The freezer part of it
>> really can’t be relied on in cold weather so we don’t use it. As a beer
>> fridge, it’s probably not terribly efficient.
>>
>> That got me wondering if I could just change the stat on the chest freezer
>> to turn in into a fridge. I presume being top opening it would avoid all
>> the cold air loss that the upright one suffers from and might be better
>> insulated and hence cheaper to run.
>>
>> The only thing stopping me just swapping the stat is that there is no sign
>> of an internal temperature probe inside the chest freezer. It’s just a flat
>> sided box. Where is the temperature probe hidden in chest freezers?
>>
>> Any reason NOT to convert it to a fridge?
>>
>> Tim
>>
>
> The fridge / freezer that doesn’t work as well as you’d like, have you
> checked it is rated to work in an outbuilding?

It’s definitely not! It was just a redundant fridge/freezer that got stored
in the garage and became our beer fridge.

>
> If you plan to use a fridge or freezer in an outbuilding / garage etc, you
> should check it is rated to work at lower ambient temperatures. If it
> isn’t, odd as it seems, it may well not cool properly.

Well that’s kinda why I’d like to ditch it.

>
>
> As for converting the freezer, possibly but it may tend to over shoot. I
> would assume, having switched to cooling, it would be set up to ‘work
> harder’ as a freezer than you will need as fridge.

Well with an appropriate thermostat I don’t see why it would overshoot.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 19 Oct 2022 18:54:14 GMT, Tim+ <tim.downie@gmail.com> wrote:

>We have a small unused chest freezer in our garage. We also have a tall
>fridge/freezer combo that we use for beer and wine. The freezer part of it
>really can’t be relied on in cold weather so we don’t use it. As a beer
>fridge, it’s probably not terribly efficient.
>
>That got me wondering if I could just change the stat on the chest freezer
>to turn in into a fridge. I presume being top opening it would avoid all
>the cold air loss that the upright one suffers from and might be better
>insulated and hence cheaper to run.
>
>The only thing stopping me just swapping the stat is that there is no sign
>of an internal temperature probe inside the chest freezer. It’s just a flat
>sided box. Where is the temperature probe hidden in chest freezers?
>
>Any reason NOT to convert it to a fridge?
>
>Tim
Not quite answering your question, but if all else fails you could use
an external temperature controller like this
https://tinyurl.com/22gmpvhl . I have something similar to control a
plant propagator. Plug the controller into a mains socket, plug the
freezer into the controller and hang the probe in the freezer.

A similar one by the same mfr claims to be able to control 3000W so
should cope with the compressor surge, and it controls down to 0C, but
it's brand new and more expensive. https://tinyurl.com/52sj9tu2

--
Chris

On Thu, 20 Oct 2022 05:54:14 +1100, Tim+ <tim.downie@gmail.com> wrote:

> We have a small unused chest freezer in our garage. We also have a tall
> fridge/freezer combo that we use for beer and wine. The freezer part of
> it
> really can’t be relied on in cold weather so we don’t use it. As a beer
> fridge, it’s probably not terribly efficient.
>
> That got me wondering if I could just change the stat on the chest
> freezer
> to turn in into a fridge. I presume being top opening it would avoid all
> the cold air loss that the upright one suffers from and might be better
> insulated and hence cheaper to run.

Not by enough to matter.

> The only thing stopping me just swapping the stat is that there is no
> sign
> of an internal temperature probe inside the chest freezer. It’s just a
> flat
> sided box. Where is the temperature probe hidden in chest freezers?
>
> Any reason NOT to convert it to a fridge?

Access with a top door is much less convenient.

On Thu, 20 Oct 2022 07:02:42 +1100, Tim+ <tim.downie@gmail.com> wrote:

> Brian <noinv@lid.org> wrote:
>> Tim+ <tim.downie@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> We have a small unused chest freezer in our garage. We also have a
>>> tall
>>> fridge/freezer combo that we use for beer and wine. The freezer part
>>> of it
>>> really can’t be relied on in cold weather so we don’t use it. As a
>>> beer
>>> fridge, it’s probably not terribly efficient.
>>>
>>> That got me wondering if I could just change the stat on the chest
>>> freezer
>>> to turn in into a fridge. I presume being top opening it would avoid
>>> all
>>> the cold air loss that the upright one suffers from and might be better
>>> insulated and hence cheaper to run.
>>>
>>> The only thing stopping me just swapping the stat is that there is no
>>> sign
>>> of an internal temperature probe inside the chest freezer. It’s just a
>>> flat
>>> sided box. Where is the temperature probe hidden in chest freezers?
>>>
>>> Any reason NOT to convert it to a fridge?
>>>
>>> Tim
>>>
>>
>> The fridge / freezer that doesn’t work as well as you’d like, have you
>> checked it is rated to work in an outbuilding?
>
> It’s definitely not! It was just a redundant fridge/freezer that got
> stored
> in the garage and became our beer fridge.
>
>
>>
>> If you plan to use a fridge or freezer in an outbuilding / garage etc,
>> you
>> should check it is rated to work at lower ambient temperatures. If it
>> isn’t, odd as it seems, it may well not cool properly.
>
> Well that’s kinda why I’d like to ditch it.
>
>>
>>
>> As for converting the freezer, possibly but it may tend to over shoot.. I
>> would assume, having switched to cooling, it would be set up to ‘work
>> harder’ as a freezer than you will need as fridge.
>
> Well with an appropriate thermostat I don’t see why it would overshoot.

I do. Fridges are carefully designed to ensure you dont accidentally freeze
the liquids like drinks and stuff that doesnt like being frozen like
lettuce.

It is unlikely that a converted freezer will be that well designed
circulation of cootth wise.

Yes you would get the heat equivalent of servo hunting I'd imagine. No idea
where the thermostat might be, but also of course, being designed to be a
freezer it will probably have a more capable compressor and pipes in the
sides more numerous than a fridge would have.
Can you not flog them and buy what you really need instead?
Brian

--

--:
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Brian" <noinv@lid.org> wrote in message news:tipkmc$3sbv$1@dont-email.me...
> Tim+ <tim.downie@gmail.com> wrote:
>> We have a small unused chest freezer in our garage. We also have a tall
>> fridge/freezer combo that we use for beer and wine. The freezer part of
>> it
>> really can't be relied on in cold weather so we don't use it. As a beer
>> fridge, it's probably not terribly efficient.
>>
>> That got me wondering if I could just change the stat on the chest
>> freezer
>> to turn in into a fridge. I presume being top opening it would avoid all
>> the cold air loss that the upright one suffers from and might be better
>> insulated and hence cheaper to run.
>>
>> The only thing stopping me just swapping the stat is that there is no
>> sign
>> of an internal temperature probe inside the chest freezer. It's just a
>> flat
>> sided box. Where is the temperature probe hidden in chest freezers?
>>
>> Any reason NOT to convert it to a fridge?
>>
>> Tim
>>
>
> The fridge / freezer that doesn't work as well as you'd like, have you
> checked it is rated to work in an outbuilding?
>
> If you plan to use a fridge or freezer in an outbuilding / garage etc, you
> should check it is rated to work at lower ambient temperatures. If it
> isn't, odd as it seems, it may well not cool properly.
>
>
> As for converting the freezer, possibly but it may tend to over shoot. I
> would assume, having switched to cooling, it would be set up to 'work
> harder' as a freezer than you will need as fridge.
>

More thermal lag, I'd imagine. Freezers can vary in different parts of their
storage and do vary in temp quite a bit in normal use. the tend to stay
below what you need, but from experiments the fluctuate all the time. Most
fridges and freezers do have histeresis though, bit like most thermostats
do. Brian

--

--:
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Tim+" <tim.downie@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1231772655.687902372.488518.tim.downie-gmail.com@news.individual.net...
> Brian <noinv@lid.org> wrote:
>> Tim+ <tim.downie@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> We have a small unused chest freezer in our garage. We also have a tall
>>> fridge/freezer combo that we use for beer and wine. The freezer part of
>>> it
>>> really can't be relied on in cold weather so we don't use it. As a beer
>>> fridge, it's probably not terribly efficient.
>>>
>>> That got me wondering if I could just change the stat on the chest
>>> freezer
>>> to turn in into a fridge. I presume being top opening it would avoid
>>> all
>>> the cold air loss that the upright one suffers from and might be better
>>> insulated and hence cheaper to run.
>>>
>>> The only thing stopping me just swapping the stat is that there is no
>>> sign
>>> of an internal temperature probe inside the chest freezer. It's just a
>>> flat
>>> sided box. Where is the temperature probe hidden in chest freezers?
>>>
>>> Any reason NOT to convert it to a fridge?
>>>
>>> Tim
>>>
>>
>> The fridge / freezer that doesn't work as well as you'd like, have you
>> checked it is rated to work in an outbuilding?
>
> It's definitely not! It was just a redundant fridge/freezer that got
> stored
> in the garage and became our beer fridge.
>
>
>>
>> If you plan to use a fridge or freezer in an outbuilding / garage etc,
>> you
>> should check it is rated to work at lower ambient temperatures. If it
>> isn't, odd as it seems, it may well not cool properly.
>
> Well that's kinda why I'd like to ditch it.
>
>>
>>
>> As for converting the freezer, possibly but it may tend to over shoot. I
>> would assume, having switched to cooling, it would be set up to 'work
>> harder' as a freezer than you will need as fridge.
>
> Well with an appropriate thermostat I don't see why it would overshoot.
>
> Tim
>
>
> --
> Please don't feed the trolls

Tim+ <tim.downie@gmail.com> wrote:
> Brian <noinv@lid.org> wrote:
>> Tim+ <tim.downie@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> We have a small unused chest freezer in our garage. We also have a tall
>>> fridge/freezer combo that we use for beer and wine. The freezer part of it
>>> really can’t be relied on in cold weather so we don’t use it. As a beer
>>> fridge, it’s probably not terribly efficient.
>>>
>>> That got me wondering if I could just change the stat on the chest freezer
>>> to turn in into a fridge. I presume being top opening it would avoid all
>>> the cold air loss that the upright one suffers from and might be better
>>> insulated and hence cheaper to run.
>>>
>>> The only thing stopping me just swapping the stat is that there is no sign
>>> of an internal temperature probe inside the chest freezer. It’s just a flat
>>> sided box. Where is the temperature probe hidden in chest freezers?
>>>
>>> Any reason NOT to convert it to a fridge?
>>>
>>> Tim
>>>
>>
>> The fridge / freezer that doesn’t work as well as you’d like, have you
>> checked it is rated to work in an outbuilding?
>
> It’s definitely not! It was just a redundant fridge/freezer that got stored
> in the garage and became our beer fridge.
>
>
>>
>> If you plan to use a fridge or freezer in an outbuilding / garage etc, you
>> should check it is rated to work at lower ambient temperatures. If it
>> isn’t, odd as it seems, it may well not cool properly.
>
> Well that’s kinda why I’d like to ditch it.
>
>>
>>
>> As for converting the freezer, possibly but it may tend to over shoot. I
>> would assume, having switched to cooling, it would be set up to ‘work
>> harder’ as a freezer than you will need as fridge.
>
> Well with an appropriate thermostat I don’t see why it would overshoot.
>
> Tim
>
>

Control systems are more complex than that.

A simple thermostat is essentially a hard switch. Ideally, when heating or
cooling something, you want to gradually slow down the heat / cooling as
you approach the target temperature. Even better, you look at the long term
error (by integrating it and adjusting it to zero) and adjust to
compensate. Look up three term or PDI controllers.

The cooling mechanism in a freezer is designed to hold things around -18C
not fridge temperatures. The rate of cooling may cause the overshoot I
referred to.

On Thursday, 20 October 2022 at 10:04:50 UTC+1, Brian wrote:
> Tim+ <tim.d...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Brian <no...@lid.org> wrote:
> >> Tim+ <tim.d...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> We have a small unused chest freezer in our garage. We also have a tall
> >>> fridge/freezer combo that we use for beer and wine. The freezer part of it
> >>> really can’t be relied on in cold weather so we don’t use it. As a beer
> >>> fridge, it’s probably not terribly efficient.
> >>>
> >>> That got me wondering if I could just change the stat on the chest freezer
> >>> to turn in into a fridge. I presume being top opening it would avoid all
> >>> the cold air loss that the upright one suffers from and might be better
> >>> insulated and hence cheaper to run.
> >>>
> >>> The only thing stopping me just swapping the stat is that there is no sign
> >>> of an internal temperature probe inside the chest freezer. It’s just a flat
> >>> sided box. Where is the temperature probe hidden in chest freezers?
> >>>
> >>> Any reason NOT to convert it to a fridge?
> >>>
> >>> Tim
> >>>
> >>
> >> The fridge / freezer that doesn’t work as well as you’d like, have you
> >> checked it is rated to work in an outbuilding?
> >
> > It’s definitely not! It was just a redundant fridge/freezer that got stored
> > in the garage and became our beer fridge.
> >
> >
> >>
> >> If you plan to use a fridge or freezer in an outbuilding / garage etc, you
> >> should check it is rated to work at lower ambient temperatures. If it
> >> isn’t, odd as it seems, it may well not cool properly.
> >
> > Well that’s kinda why I’d like to ditch it.
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> As for converting the freezer, possibly but it may tend to over shoot. I
> >> would assume, having switched to cooling, it would be set up to ‘work
> >> harder’ as a freezer than you will need as fridge.
> >
> > Well with an appropriate thermostat I don’t see why it would overshoot.
> >
> > Tim
> >
> >
> Control systems are more complex than that.
>
> A simple thermostat is essentially a hard switch. Ideally, when heating or
> cooling something, you want to gradually slow down the heat / cooling as
> you approach the target temperature. Even better, you look at the long term
> error (by integrating it and adjusting it to zero) and adjust to
> compensate. Look up three term or PDI controllers.
>
> The cooling mechanism in a freezer is designed to hold things around -18C
> not fridge temperatures. The rate of cooling may cause the overshoot I
> referred to.
If overshoot does turn out to be a problem, the easiest solution would be
to put more beer in the freezer - or if you want to drink most of it, then put
some large plastic containers of water in there. They will have two effects:
1) The extra thermal mass will make overshoot less likely.
2) If it does happen, the water will buffer the temperature at around freezing
point as the water in the containers freezes.
Beer will not freeze until the temperature gets several degrees below freezing.
Wine is good to around -10 deg C.

Conventional refrigerators can also freeze water if the thermostat is set too low.
I have found it to be more likely in hot weather where heat leakage near the
thermostat causes it to think the 'fridge is warmer than it actually is and
overcompensate.

One time this happened the water in a plastic bottle became supercooled and
had a viscosity like glycerin. A few tens of seconds after I picked it up the
whole lot froze, almost instantly.

John

John Walliker <jrwalliker@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thursday, 20 October 2022 at 10:04:50 UTC+1, Brian wrote:
>> Tim+ <tim.d...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Brian <no...@lid.org> wrote:
>>>> Tim+ <tim.d...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> We have a small unused chest freezer in our garage. We also have a tall
>>>>> fridge/freezer combo that we use for beer and wine. The freezer part of it
>>>>> really can’t be relied on in cold weather so we don’t use it. As a beer
>>>>> fridge, it’s probably not terribly efficient.
>>>>>
>>>>> That got me wondering if I could just change the stat on the chest freezer
>>>>> to turn in into a fridge. I presume being top opening it would avoid all
>>>>> the cold air loss that the upright one suffers from and might be better
>>>>> insulated and hence cheaper to run.
>>>>>
>>>>> The only thing stopping me just swapping the stat is that there is no sign
>>>>> of an internal temperature probe inside the chest freezer. It’s just a flat
>>>>> sided box. Where is the temperature probe hidden in chest freezers?
>>>>>
>>>>> Any reason NOT to convert it to a fridge?
>>>>>
>>>>> Tim
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The fridge / freezer that doesn’t work as well as you’d like, have you
>>>> checked it is rated to work in an outbuilding?
>>>
>>> It’s definitely not! It was just a redundant fridge/freezer that got stored
>>> in the garage and became our beer fridge.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> If you plan to use a fridge or freezer in an outbuilding / garage etc, you
>>>> should check it is rated to work at lower ambient temperatures. If it
>>>> isn’t, odd as it seems, it may well not cool properly.
>>>
>>> Well that’s kinda why I’d like to ditch it.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> As for converting the freezer, possibly but it may tend to over shoot. I
>>>> would assume, having switched to cooling, it would be set up to ‘work
>>>> harder’ as a freezer than you will need as fridge.
>>>
>>> Well with an appropriate thermostat I don’t see why it would overshoot.
>>>
>>> Tim
>>>
>>>
>> Control systems are more complex than that.
>>
>> A simple thermostat is essentially a hard switch. Ideally, when heating or
>> cooling something, you want to gradually slow down the heat / cooling as
>> you approach the target temperature. Even better, you look at the long term
>> error (by integrating it and adjusting it to zero) and adjust to
>> compensate. Look up three term or PDI controllers.
>>
>> The cooling mechanism in a freezer is designed to hold things around -18C
>> not fridge temperatures. The rate of cooling may cause the overshoot I
>> referred to.
> If overshoot does turn out to be a problem, the easiest solution would be
> to put more beer in the freezer - or if you want to drink most of it, then put
> some large plastic containers of water in there. They will have two effects:
> 1) The extra thermal mass will make overshoot less likely.
> 2) If it does happen, the water will buffer the temperature at around freezing
> point as the water in the containers freezes.
> Beer will not freeze until the temperature gets several degrees below freezing.
> Wine is good to around -10 deg C.
>
> Conventional refrigerators can also freeze water if the thermostat is set too low.
> I have found it to be more likely in hot weather where heat leakage near the
> thermostat causes it to think the 'fridge is warmer than it actually is and
> overcompensate.
>
> One time this happened the water in a plastic bottle became supercooled and
> had a viscosity like glycerin. A few tens of seconds after I picked it up the
> whole lot froze, almost instantly.
>
> John
>

Increasing the thermal mass by either keeping the converted freezer full
is a good idea. I’m not really a beer drinker but freezing point seems a
bit cold, I would think more like 4 / 5 C would be better. 4 degrees C is
the triple point of water.

On 10:04 20 Oct 2022, Brian said:
>
>
> A simple thermostat is essentially a hard switch. Ideally, when
> heating or cooling something, you want to gradually slow down the
> heat / cooling as you approach the target temperature. Even better,
> you look at the long term error (by integrating it and adjusting it
> to zero) and adjust to compensate. Look up three term or PDI
> controllers.

You probably mean PID controller.
> The cooling mechanism in a freezer is designed to hold things around
> -18C not fridge temperatures. The rate of cooling may cause the
> overshoot I referred to.

On 20/10/2022 12:46, Brian wrote:
> John Walliker <jrwalliker@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Thursday, 20 October 2022 at 10:04:50 UTC+1, Brian wrote:
>>> Tim+ <tim.d...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Brian <no...@lid.org> wrote:
>>>>> Tim+ <tim.d...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> We have a small unused chest freezer in our garage. We also have a tall
>>>>>> fridge/freezer combo that we use for beer and wine. The freezer part of it
>>>>>> really can’t be relied on in cold weather so we don’t use it. As a beer
>>>>>> fridge, it’s probably not terribly efficient.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That got me wondering if I could just change the stat on the chest freezer
>>>>>> to turn in into a fridge. I presume being top opening it would avoid all
>>>>>> the cold air loss that the upright one suffers from and might be better
>>>>>> insulated and hence cheaper to run.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The only thing stopping me just swapping the stat is that there is no sign
>>>>>> of an internal temperature probe inside the chest freezer. It’s just a flat
>>>>>> sided box. Where is the temperature probe hidden in chest freezers?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Any reason NOT to convert it to a fridge?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tim
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The fridge / freezer that doesn’t work as well as you’d like, have you
>>>>> checked it is rated to work in an outbuilding?
>>>>
>>>> It’s definitely not! It was just a redundant fridge/freezer that got stored
>>>> in the garage and became our beer fridge.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If you plan to use a fridge or freezer in an outbuilding / garage etc, you
>>>>> should check it is rated to work at lower ambient temperatures. If it
>>>>> isn’t, odd as it seems, it may well not cool properly.
>>>>
>>>> Well that’s kinda why I’d like to ditch it.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> As for converting the freezer, possibly but it may tend to over shoot. I
>>>>> would assume, having switched to cooling, it would be set up to ‘work
>>>>> harder’ as a freezer than you will need as fridge.
>>>>
>>>> Well with an appropriate thermostat I don’t see why it would overshoot.
>>>>
>>>> Tim
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Control systems are more complex than that.
>>>
>>> A simple thermostat is essentially a hard switch. Ideally, when heating or
>>> cooling something, you want to gradually slow down the heat / cooling as
>>> you approach the target temperature. Even better, you look at the long term
>>> error (by integrating it and adjusting it to zero) and adjust to
>>> compensate. Look up three term or PDI controllers.
>>>
>>> The cooling mechanism in a freezer is designed to hold things around -18C
>>> not fridge temperatures. The rate of cooling may cause the overshoot I
>>> referred to.
>> If overshoot does turn out to be a problem, the easiest solution would be
>> to put more beer in the freezer - or if you want to drink most of it, then put
>> some large plastic containers of water in there. They will have two effects:
>> 1) The extra thermal mass will make overshoot less likely.
>> 2) If it does happen, the water will buffer the temperature at around freezing
>> point as the water in the containers freezes.
>> Beer will not freeze until the temperature gets several degrees below freezing.
>> Wine is good to around -10 deg C.
>>
>> Conventional refrigerators can also freeze water if the thermostat is set too low.
>> I have found it to be more likely in hot weather where heat leakage near the
>> thermostat causes it to think the 'fridge is warmer than it actually is and
>> overcompensate.
>>
>> One time this happened the water in a plastic bottle became supercooled and
>> had a viscosity like glycerin. A few tens of seconds after I picked it up the
>> whole lot froze, almost instantly.
>>
>> John
>>
>
> Increasing the thermal mass by either keeping the converted freezer full
> is a good idea. I’m not really a beer drinker but freezing point seems a
> bit cold, I would think more like 4 / 5 C would be better. 4 degrees C is
> the triple point of water.

0.01C is the triple point. And 4C is the nominal temperature at which
density inversion takes place.

I understood that the biggest risk associated with freezing cans or
bottles is the CO2 suddenly comes out of solution? Hence why I have seen
cans with their bottoms 'popped'.
BICBW.

On 19/10/2022 19:54, Tim+ wrote:
> We have a small unused chest freezer in our garage. We also have a tall
> fridge/freezer combo that we use for beer and wine. The freezer part of it
> really can’t be relied on in cold weather so we don’t use it. As a beer
> fridge, it’s probably not terribly efficient.
>
> That got me wondering if I could just change the stat on the chest freezer
> to turn in into a fridge. I presume being top opening it would avoid all
> the cold air loss that the upright one suffers from and might be better
> insulated and hence cheaper to run.
>
> The only thing stopping me just swapping the stat is that there is no sign
> of an internal temperature probe inside the chest freezer. It’s just a flat
> sided box. Where is the temperature probe hidden in chest freezers?
>
> Any reason NOT to convert it to a fridge?

The most obvious ones are that its designed to pull down temperatures
much lower than in a fridge and its internal surfaces will all be
aggressively cold. You may need to stand off any produce to avoid it
being in direct contact with below zero metal in normal operation.

The expansion of its refridgerant will be designed to pull the metal
down to -20C or thereabouts so you will have to limit its on time rather
carefully with pulse width modulation rather than a simple bang bang
thermostat. I'd say it probably wasn't worth the bother - just use it as
extra freezer space.

Your other minor problem is that stagnant water will accumulate in the
bottom of it rather than frost. Apart from that and the logistics of
making good use of the volume it should function OK if you can get the
temperature control right (which may be harder than you think).

The thermostat sensor will be glued against the inner metallic surface
somewhere with tails going off to the controller.

Redundant freezers make good places to store apples in (at least until
squirrels learn how to open them).

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On Thursday, 20 October 2022 at 14:03:00 UTC+1, Martin Brown wrote:
> On 19/10/2022 19:54, Tim+ wrote:
> > We have a small unused chest freezer in our garage. We also have a tall
> > fridge/freezer combo that we use for beer and wine. The freezer part of it
> > really can’t be relied on in cold weather so we don’t use it. As a beer
> > fridge, it’s probably not terribly efficient.
> >
> > That got me wondering if I could just change the stat on the chest freezer
> > to turn in into a fridge. I presume being top opening it would avoid all
> > the cold air loss that the upright one suffers from and might be better
> > insulated and hence cheaper to run.
> >
> > The only thing stopping me just swapping the stat is that there is no sign
> > of an internal temperature probe inside the chest freezer. It’s just a flat
> > sided box. Where is the temperature probe hidden in chest freezers?
> >
> > Any reason NOT to convert it to a fridge?
> The most obvious ones are that its designed to pull down temperatures
> much lower than in a fridge and its internal surfaces will all be
> aggressively cold. You may need to stand off any produce to avoid it
> being in direct contact with below zero metal in normal operation.
>
> The expansion of its refridgerant will be designed to pull the metal
> down to -20C or thereabouts so you will have to limit its on time rather
> carefully with pulse width modulation rather than a simple bang bang
> thermostat. I'd say it probably wasn't worth the bother - just use it as
> extra freezer space.
>
> Your other minor problem is that stagnant water will accumulate in the
> bottom of it rather than frost. Apart from that and the logistics of
> making good use of the volume it should function OK if you can get the
> temperature control right (which may be harder than you think).
>
> The thermostat sensor will be glued against the inner metallic surface
> somewhere with tails going off to the controller.
>
> Redundant freezers make good places to store apples in (at least until
> squirrels learn how to open them).

I'll be curious to hear how well it works. On the face of it it ought to be ok, except for lack of condensate drainage. You'd need to wipe that out, perhaps using bleach.
The sides will get cold, but not excessively, the stat will stop it when it gets overly cold.
Fridges require a controlled amount of hysteresis in the stat, so use a fridge stat rather than a central heating or uncompensated stat.

On Thursday, 20 October 2022 at 18:31:15 UTC+1, Animal wrote:
> On Thursday, 20 October 2022 at 14:03:00 UTC+1, Martin Brown wrote:
> > On 19/10/2022 19:54, Tim+ wrote:
> > > We have a small unused chest freezer in our garage. We also have a tall
> > > fridge/freezer combo that we use for beer and wine. The freezer part of it
> > > really can’t be relied on in cold weather so we don’t use it. As a beer
> > > fridge, it’s probably not terribly efficient.
> > >
> > > That got me wondering if I could just change the stat on the chest freezer
> > > to turn in into a fridge. I presume being top opening it would avoid all
> > > the cold air loss that the upright one suffers from and might be better
> > > insulated and hence cheaper to run.
> > >
> > > The only thing stopping me just swapping the stat is that there is no sign
> > > of an internal temperature probe inside the chest freezer. It’s just a flat
> > > sided box. Where is the temperature probe hidden in chest freezers?
> > >
> > > Any reason NOT to convert it to a fridge?
> > The most obvious ones are that its designed to pull down temperatures
> > much lower than in a fridge and its internal surfaces will all be
> > aggressively cold. You may need to stand off any produce to avoid it
> > being in direct contact with below zero metal in normal operation.
> >
> > The expansion of its refridgerant will be designed to pull the metal
> > down to -20C or thereabouts so you will have to limit its on time rather
> > carefully with pulse width modulation rather than a simple bang bang
> > thermostat. I'd say it probably wasn't worth the bother - just use it as
> > extra freezer space.
> >
> > Your other minor problem is that stagnant water will accumulate in the
> > bottom of it rather than frost. Apart from that and the logistics of
> > making good use of the volume it should function OK if you can get the
> > temperature control right (which may be harder than you think).
> >
> > The thermostat sensor will be glued against the inner metallic surface
> > somewhere with tails going off to the controller.
> >
> > Redundant freezers make good places to store apples in (at least until
> > squirrels learn how to open them).
> I'll be curious to hear how well it works. On the face of it it ought to be ok, except for lack of condensate drainage. You'd need to wipe that out, perhaps using bleach.
> The sides will get cold, but not excessively, the stat will stop it when it gets overly cold.
> Fridges require a controlled amount of hysteresis in the stat, so use a fridge stat rather than a central heating or uncompensated stat.

My chest freezer has a drain plug in the bottom for defrosting. Simply removing
the plug might be enough (to ruin the floor underneath). The condensate
drains in refrigerators drip onto a tray above the compressor to evaporate
the condensate.

John