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aus+uk / uk.rec.cycling / Active Travel minister told children not to cycle on “terrible” local roads

SubjectAuthor
* Active Travel minister told children not to cycle onswldx...@gmail.com
+- Re: Active Travel minister told children not to fairy-cJNugent
+- Re: Active Travel minister told children not to cyclswldx...@gmail.com
+* Re: Active Travel minister told children not to cycle onSpike
|`- Re: Active Travel minister told children not to cycle oJNugent
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|`- Re: Active Travel minister told children not to fairy-cJNugent
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1
Active Travel minister told children not to cycle on “terrible” local roads

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Subject: Active_Travel_minister_told_children_not_to_cycle_on
_“terrible”_local_roads
From: swldxer1...@gmail.com (swldx...@gmail.com)
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 by: swldx...@gmail.com - Sat, 26 Mar 2022 17:34 UTC

Trudy Harrison, the Parliamentary Under-Secretary at the Department for Transport responsible for active travel, admitted that she has “pleaded” with her daughters not to ride their bikes near her home in Cumbria, and argued that safe, segregated routes are essential to encouraging women, children and disabled people to cycle.

The Conservative MP for Copeland, who took up her current role in the DfT in September 2021, also told a meeting (link is external) of the All Party Parliamentary Group for Walking and Cycling (APPCWG) that cycling and walking will play a “huge part” in decarbonising Britain and improving the economy.

On Wednesday we reported that Chancellor Rishi Sunak’s Spring Statement, which cut fuel duty by 5 pence per litre, was criticised by charity Cycling UK’s head of campaigns Duncan Dollimore, who claimed it was a “sticking plaster for the problems we face today”.

Dollimore also expressed his disappointment that the government did not unveil a more “progressive” Spring Statement which focused on alternative, sustainable forms of transport such as cycling and walking. The fuel duty cut will cost the Treasury a reported £5 billion per year – the current five-year cycling and walking budget is £2 billion.

However, Harrison told the APPCWG meeting that the government is investing “six times more than we’ve ever committed” to cycling.

She added: “I think it’s also important that the roads budget, and money that has been spent on transport more generally, looks at the way we design roads with a cycling and walking lens wherever possible.”

Harrison also claimed that she wants to work with landowners to develop safe new cycle routes, and argued that a “cultural change” – as well as improved infrastructure – is required to get more people cycling.

“If we are going to decarbonize (sic) and we are going to have a happier, healthier, safer society, then walking and cycling is going to play a huge part”, she said.

“The most important thing is making sure that we’ve got the infrastructure as well, so children and women [can cycle], and the fact that cycling can be life changing for disabled people.”

Harrison told the meeting that she wants to focus on rural as well as urban bike routes, and said that the lack of safe cycling infrastructure around her home in the Lake District has even led to her asking her children not to ride their bikes as she is concerned about their safety.

“We do have fantastic cycling infrastructure at Grizedale and Whinlatter Forests, particularly for leisure cycling, but I couldn’t possibly read that out about my own community,” she said.

“I’ve seen for myself in my own county of Cumbria some pretty poor so-called cycle infrastructure. A white line on a road does not constitute a cycle route.”

Harrison pointed out that her village, Bootle, has “terrible cycling infrastructure”, including a road with a 60mph speed limit between her home and the local railway station.

“I have taught my daughters to ride bikes, along with my husband, but I have many, many times pleaded with them not to go out on their bikes because I’ve been worried about their safety,” she said.

“That can’t continue. That’s something that I really want to change. I would like children to be able to walk and to cycle to school.”

She added: “I know that it makes such a difference to have that segregated designated route for people.”

The minister said that funding allocated to Active Travel England, a governmental body launched in January and led by Chris Boardman, and new, higher standards for cycle infrastructure design will contribute to greater numbers reaching for their bikes.

Harrison also claimed that her husband – “the keenest cyclist you could ever imagine” – experiences animosity from motorists while riding his bike, with the minister arguing that the apparent growing chasm between drivers and cyclists needs to be addressed if more people are to be encouraged to cycle.

“I feel that sometimes an unhealthy kind of divide is being created between cyclists and motorists – and the reality is that many motorists are often cyclists and many cyclists are often motorists and ultimately, we’re just people trying to get to the places we need to be.

“And I would very much like to dial down that divide and recognise the value of cycling, for health, for environmental for reducing congestion, for our economy.

“Somehow we need to find a way through all this and I am very, very keen to be part of the team that improves the way in which we get about.

“I really want to see us, this government, roll out an incredible cycling revolution.”

https://road.cc/content/news/minister-told-children-not-cycle-terrible-local-roads-291425

Re: Active Travel minister told children not to fairy-cycle on “terrible” local roads

<ja9bmsF71k4U1@mid.individual.net>

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Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Subject: Re:_Active_Travel_minister_told_children_not_to_fairy-c
ycle_on_“terrible”_local_roads
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 by: JNugent - Sat, 26 Mar 2022 20:34 UTC

On 26/03/2022 05:34 pm, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Trudy Harrison, the Parliamentary Under-Secretary at the Department for Transport responsible for active travel, admitted that she has “pleaded” with her daughters not to ride their fairy-bikes near her home in Cumbria, and argued that safe, segregated routes are essential to encouraging women, children and disabled people to fairy-cycle.
>
> The Conservative MP for Copeland, who took up her current role in the DfT in September 2021, also told a meeting (link is external) of the All Party Parliamentary Group for Walking and Fairy-cycling (APPCWG) that fairy-cycling and walking will play a “huge part” in decarbonising Britain and improving the economy.
>
> On Wednesday we reported that Chancellor Rishi Sunak’s Spring Statement, which cut fuel duty by 5 pence per litre, was criticised by charity Cycling UK’s head of campaigns Duncan Dollimore, who claimed it was a “sticking plaster for the problems we face today”.

What had it to do with fairy-cycling?

> Dollimore also expressed his disappointment that the government did not unveil a more “progressive” Spring Statement which focused on alternative, sustainable forms of transport such as fairy-cycling and walking. The fuel duty cut will cost the Treasury a reported £5 billion per year – the current five-year fairy-cycling and walking budget is £2 billion.

I agree that the fairy-cycling aspect of that £2,000,000,000 should be
cut entirely.

> However, Harrison told the APPCWG meeting that the government is investing “six times more than we’ve ever committed” to fairy-cycling.

Shame.
>
> She added: “I think it’s also important that the roads budget, and money that has been spent on transport more generally, looks at the way we design roads with a fairy-cycling and walking lens wherever possible.”
>
> Harrison also claimed that she wants to work with landowners to develop safe new fairy-cycle routes, and argued that a “cultural change” – as well as improved infrastructure – is required to get more people fairy-cycling.
>
> “If we are going to decarbonize (sic) and we are going to have a happier, healthier, safer society, then walking and fairy-cycling is going to play a huge part”, she said.
>
> “The most important thing is making sure that we’ve got the infrastructure as well, so children and women [can fairy-cycle], and the fact that fairy-cycling can be life changing for disabled people.”
>
> Harrison told the meeting that she wants to focus on rural as well as urban fairy-bike routes, and said that the lack of safe fairy-cycling infrastructure around her home in the Lake District has even led to her asking her children not to ride their fairy-bikes as she is concerned about their safety.
>
> “We do have fantastic fairy-cycling infrastructure at Grizedale and Whinlatter Forests, particularly for leisure fairy-cycling, but I couldn’t possibly read that out about my own community,” she said.
>
> “I’ve seen for myself in my own county of Cumbria some pretty poor so-called fairy-cycle infrastructure. A white line on a road does not constitute a fairy-cycle route.”
>
> Harrison pointed out that her village, Bootle, has “terrible fairy-cycling infrastructure”, including a road with a 60mph speed limit between her home and the local railway station.

Wouldn't that be easy to get around by moving closer to the railway station?
>
> “I have taught my daughters to ride fairy-bikes, along with my husband, but I have many, many times pleaded with them not to go out on their fairy-bikes because I’ve been worried about their safety,” she said.

Quite right.

Too many parents seem unconcerned about safety.
>
> “That can’t continue. That’s something that I really want to change. I would like children to be able to walk and to fairy-cycle to school.”
>
> She added: “I know that it makes such a difference to have that segregated designated route for people.”
>
> The minister said that funding allocated to Active Travel England, a governmental body launched in January and led by Chris Boardman, and new, higher standards for fairy-cycle infrastructure design will contribute to greater numbers reaching for their fairy-bikes.
>
> Harrison also claimed that her husband – “the keenest fairy-cyclist you could ever imagine” – experiences animosity from motorists while riding his fairy-bike, with the minister arguing that the apparent growing chasm between drivers and fairy-cyclists needs to be addressed if more people are to be encouraged to fairy-cycle.

Perhaps fairy-cyclists could start behaving themselves?

You know... stopping at red traffic lights, staying off footways, going
only in the correct direction along one-way streets and systems?

That sort of thing.
>
> “I feel that sometimes an unhealthy kind of divide is being created between fairy-cyclists and motorists – and the reality is that many motorists are often fairy-cyclists and many fairy-cyclists are often motorists and ultimately, we’re just people trying to get to the places we need to be.

Then stop sabotaging the roads. It's not as though they are even
adequate in the first place, especially so in places like Cumbria.

> “And I would very much like to dial down that divide and recognise the value of fairy-cycling, for health, for environmental for reducing congestion, for our economy.

Complete lack of joined-up thinking.

You do NOT help or improve the economy by making travel more difficult.
>
> “Somehow we need to find a way through all this and I am very, very keen to be part of the team that improves the way in which we get about.
>
> “I really want to see us, this government, roll out an incredible fairy-cycling revolution.”
>
> https://road.cc/content/news/minister-told-children-not-cycle-terrible-local-roads-291425

Amusing.

The ever-more-ludicrous and semi-literate road.cc "thinks" it has
something relevant to say about other subjects (including taxation -
clearly no sense of irony exists at road.cc Towers).

Re: Active Travel minister told children not to cycle on “terrible” local roads

<2f4051df-c93b-4f42-b6f0-8e6dfcde58c0n@googlegroups.com>

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 by: swldx...@gmail.com - Sat, 26 Mar 2022 20:59 UTC

chrisonatrike | 1904 posts | 46 min ago
1 like

Unusually - for a ... politician - she sounds pretty genuine and understanding of some of the issues here. I approve of the emphasis on infrastructure - in conjunction with other changes.

However this government - like all our governments - doesn't seem to have much urgency about doing anything that might shake things up. For example Grant Shapps was recently admitting the government has no policy / idea about road pricing or other means of replacing revenues as electric vehicles come in (well, he fobbed the question off to the Treasury). Plus they've just increased the motoring subsidy decreased the fuel tax. I know: fuel poverty ... hardworking families ... supply chains ... critical time for businesses ... cost of living crisis. But when was it ever a good time? When was ever the time that we said "y'know, we're feeling pretty comfortable now - maybe we could even think about spending some spare change on this whole cycling, walking and wheeling thing"?

I'd like her to be contagious but:

Quote:

investing “six times more than we’ve ever committed”

Six times nothing is still nothing.

Quote:

“If we are going to decarbonize and we are going to have a happier, healthier, safer society, then walking and cycling is going to play a huge part”, she said.

If.

Quote:

... the reality is that many motorists are often cyclists and many cyclists are often motorists ...

The reality is that few motorists are cyclists (falling to very few if you qualify this as "cycling for transport") and while many adult cyclists are also motorists many cyclists can't drive - children for one. Finally lots of people who might benefit from the increased mobility and joy of cycling - e.g. children, the disabled, older people - are never going to do so without some more radical and rapid changes than are currently being mooted or there's funding for.

Re: Active Travel minister told children not to cycle on “terrible” local roads

<t1p9n5$1u8g$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Subject: Re:_Active_Travel_minister_told_children_not_to_cycle_on_
“terrible” local roads
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2022 09:11:04 +0000
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 by: Spike - Sun, 27 Mar 2022 09:11 UTC

On 26/03/2022 17:34, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:

> “If we are going to decarbonize (sic) and we are going to have a happier, healthier, safer society, then walking and cycling is going to play a huge part”,

If we are to decarbonise, we are going to have a poorer, less healthy,
less equal society, and cycling will play its part in that.

The Drax power station burns 'biomass' as a renewable resource. It is
one of the bigger polluters in Europe.

It burns 7 million tons per annum of woodchip imported from Canada - the
equivalent of a forest occupying a significant proportion of Scotland.

This is the sort on nonsense that the renewables programme has brought
you, along with fabulous prices for energy from low-carbon and 'free'
sources. Someone is laughing all the way to the bank. And it isn't you.

--
Spike

Re: Active Travel minister told children not to cycle on “terrible” local roads

<t1pg1m$b14$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Subject: Re:_Active_Travel_minister_told_children_not_to_cycle_on_
“terrible” local roads
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2022 10:59:02 +0000
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 by: Spike - Sun, 27 Mar 2022 10:59 UTC

On 27/03/2022 10:01, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:

> The government spouts on about where the money is going to come from to do all this (despite giving £5bn to motorists this week)

TAKING LESS IS NOT 'GIVING'.

--
Spike

Re: Active Travel minister told children not to cycle on “terrible” local roads

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Subject: Re:_Active_Travel_minister_told_children_not_to_cycle_o
n_“terrible”_local_roads
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 by: JNugent - Sun, 27 Mar 2022 11:18 UTC

On 27/03/2022 10:11 am, Spike wrote:

> On 26/03/2022 17:34, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> “If we are going to decarbonize (sic) and we are going to have a happier, healthier, safer society, then walking and cycling is going to play a huge part”,
>
> If we are to decarbonise, we are going to have a poorer, less healthy,
> less equal society, and cycling will play its part in that.
>
> The Drax power station burns 'biomass' as a renewable resource. It is
> one of the bigger polluters in Europe.
>
> It burns 7 million tons per annum of woodchip imported from Canada - the
> equivalent of a forest occupying a significant proportion of Scotland.
>
> This is the sort on nonsense that the renewables programme has brought
> you, along with fabulous prices for energy from low-carbon and 'free'
> sources. Someone is laughing all the way to the bank. And it isn't you.

Oh no, you must be wrong there.

Mason is a fairy-cyclist. All fairy-cyclists are Considerably Richer
Than Yow.

They've said so here. Many times.

Re: Active Travel minister told children not to cycle on “terrible” local roads

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Subject: Re:_Active_Travel_minister_told_children_not_to_cycl
e_on_“terrible”_local_roads
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 by: swldx...@gmail.com - Sun, 27 Mar 2022 11:20 UTC

Avatar
eburtthebike | 3017 posts | 12 hours ago
1 like

All well said, but as ever, where's the funding? Fine words but meaningless without the money to back them up.

The piddling amounts this government are putting into cycling are risible, and will take centuries to achieve what needs to be done in a decade. Meanwhile, they haven't cut the roads budget, they've encouraged driving by cutting fuel duty and no amount of positivity from a junior minister with very little power is going to achieve the radical change that is required now.

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cqexbesd replied to eburtthebike | 157 posts | 5 hours ago
3 likes

I'm waiting for the announcement that for every #100 spent on transport by an organisation that gets govt money, 50% must be active travel and public transport. Given the climate even that isn't enough. That way when they want to widen a motorway they will have to put in a lot of bike lanes.

> https://road.cc/content/news/minister-told-children-not-cycle-terrible-local-roads-291425

Re: Active Travel minister told children not to fairy-cycle on “terrible” local roads

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Subject: Re:_Active_Travel_minister_told_children_not_to_fairy-c
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 by: JNugent - Sun, 27 Mar 2022 11:37 UTC

On 27/03/2022 12:20 pm, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Avatar
> eburtthebike | 3017 posts | 12 hours ago
> 1 like
>
> All well said, but as ever, where's the funding? Fine words but meaningless without the money to back them up.

Fairy-cyclists (all Considerably Richer Than Yow, according to their own
claims here) are the obvious source of "funding". Raise the required
sums from them.

> The piddling amounts this government are putting into fairy-cycling are risible,

Governments can only spend what is raised. They currently raise roughly
£0 pa from fairy-cyclists (after you deduct the VAT on new inner tubes,
etc).

> and will take centuries to achieve what needs to be done in a decade. Meanwhile, they haven't cut the roads budget, they've encouraged driving by cutting fuel duty and no amount of positivity from a junior minister with very little power is going to achieve the radical change that is required now.
>
> Log in or register to post comments
>
> Avatar
> cqexbesd replied to eburtthebike | 157 posts | 5 hours ago
> 3 likes
>
> I'm waiting for the announcement that for every #100 spent on transport by an organisation that gets govt money, 50% must be active travel and public transport. Given the climate even that isn't enough. That way when they want to widen a motorway they will have to put in a lot of fairy-bike lanes.

As long as the fairy-bike lanes are not on the outside (nearside) edge
of the carriageway but are on the offside (adjacent to the
centre-reservation).

Re: Active Travel minister told children not to cycle on “terrible” local roads

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From: Aero.Sp...@mail.invalid (Spike)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Subject: Re:_Active_Travel_minister_told_children_not_to_cycle_on_
“terrible” local roads
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2022 12:30:48 +0000
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 by: Spike - Sun, 27 Mar 2022 12:30 UTC

On 27/03/2022 11:42, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:

> wtjs replied to chrisonatrike | 1696 posts | 14 hours ago
> 1 like

> The reality is that few motorists are cyclists (falling to very few if you qualify this as "cycling for transport") and while many adult cyclists are also motorists many cyclists can't drive - children for one

> Correct! To a first approximation, 0% of motorists are cyclists and maybe 50% of adult cyclists are drivers, so 0 x 0.5 = 0% of drivers have the remotest empathy with cyclists- this includes the police. Now we know why we don't believe 'I'm a cyclist myself', and why I'm fairly suspicious about this minister.

Your arithmetic falls down because your use of the proviso that "many
adult cyclists are also motorists.." does not agree with your other
premise that "...To a first approximation, 0% of motorists are cyclists...".

HTH

--
Spike

Re: Active Travel minister told children not to cycle on “terrible” local roads

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Subject: Re:_Active_Travel_minister_told_children_not_to_cycle_o
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 by: TMS320 - Tue, 29 Mar 2022 13:59 UTC

On 27/03/2022 11:01, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
> iandusud | 532 posts | 6 min ago 1 like
>
> The government spouts on about where the money is going to come from
> to do all this (despite giving £5bn to motorists this week).

I don't mind motoring being taxed but allowing people to keep money they
have earned is not "giving" it to them. It comes from the same book that
says that allowing people to pay into a pension is a "cost" for the
government.


aus+uk / uk.rec.cycling / Active Travel minister told children not to cycle on “terrible” local roads

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