Rocksolid Light

Welcome to novaBBS (click a section below)

mail  files  register  newsreader  groups  login

Message-ID:  

Lend money to a bad debtor and he will hate you.


aus+uk / uk.rec.cycling / Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute... only to be told it was his fault

SubjectAuthor
* Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute...JNugent
+- Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute...JNugent
+- Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute...Spike
`* Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute...TMS320
 +* Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute...JNugent
 |`* Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute...TMS320
 | `* Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute...JNugent
 |  `* Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute...TMS320
 |   `* Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute...JNugent
 |    `* Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute...TMS320
 |     `* Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute...JNugent
 |      `* Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute...TMS320
 |       `* Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute...JNugent
 |        `* Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute...TMS320
 |         `* Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute...JNugent
 |          `* Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute...TMS320
 |           `* Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute...JNugent
 |            `* Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute...TMS320
 |             `* Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute...JNugent
 |              `* Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute...TMS320
 |               `* Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute...JNugent
 |                `* Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute...TMS320
 |                 +* Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute...JNugent
 |                 |`* Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute...TMS320
 |                 | `* Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute...JNugent
 |                 |  `* Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute...TMS320
 |                 |   `* Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute...JNugent
 |                 |    `* Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute...TMS320
 |                 |     `* Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute...JNugent
 |                 |      `* Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute...TMS320
 |                 |       `* Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute...JNugent
 |                 |        `* Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute...TMS320
 |                 |         `- Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute...JNugent
 |                 `* Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute...swldx...@gmail.com
 |                  +- Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute...TMS320
 |                  `* Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute...swldx...@gmail.com
 |                   `- Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute...swldx...@gmail.com
 `- Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute...JNugent

Pages:12
Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute... only to be told it was his fault

<jae8ltF576jU1@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=7506&group=uk.rec.cycling#7506

 copy link   Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!news.szaf.org!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: jennings...@fastmail.fm (JNugent)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Subject: Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute...
only to be told it was his fault
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2022 18:13:33 +0100
Organization: Home User
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <jae8ltF576jU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <85d9ea47-33ed-4511-b65a-5558db8514a4n@googlegroups.com>
Reply-To: jennings&co@fastmail.fm
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Trace: individual.net w8c3KBSf3Imfd7Bi9u+Mtg8X0lYaWlHR09wrewQ9NCY1V3vSXI
Cancel-Lock: sha1:RNxA8GFzneSPtGn6QITSJrBmtJE=
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/60.6.1
In-Reply-To: <85d9ea47-33ed-4511-b65a-5558db8514a4n@googlegroups.com>
Content-Language: en-GB
X-Antivirus: AVG (VPS 220327-4, 3/27/2022), Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
 by: JNugent - Mon, 28 Mar 2022 17:13 UTC

On 28/03/2022 05:04 pm, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:

> The presenter shared this shocking piece of driving, accompanied by some very hard braking and shouting on his behalf, as the driver pulls out from a side road, completely oblivious to the presence of Vine on the main carriageway.
>
> As Vine noted, the first reply blaming him for the incident arrived "within 2 minutes", with Surrey's Road Policing Unit chipping in to explain why this person was so very wrong. This person then continues to argue with the actual road police about road policing openly on social media, which is too toe-curling to share any more of really...
>
> https://road.cc/content/news/cycling-live-blog-28-march-2022-291443#live-blog-item-32843

Vine (like several other prominent fairy-cyclists) is always looking for
trouble. Is it any surprise that he finds it when he over-reacts to the
slightest error from other road-users?

"Rebellion lay in his way, and he found it."

Henry IV part 1. Act IV scene 1.

BTW: "hard braking"?

What braking?

He steams on with his "my right of way" red-mist attitude, even on to
the wrong side of the carriageway, regardless of the risks and of the
fact that there is a much easier and safer way to deal with other
people's errors: STOP.

"The better part of valour is discretion."

Henry IN part 1. Act V scene 4.

Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute... only to be told it was his fault

<jae8rgF576jU3@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=7508&group=uk.rec.cycling#7508

 copy link   Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!newsreader4.netcologne.de!news.netcologne.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: jennings...@fastmail.fm (JNugent)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Subject: Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute...
only to be told it was his fault
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2022 18:16:32 +0100
Organization: Home User
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <jae8rgF576jU3@mid.individual.net>
References: <85d9ea47-33ed-4511-b65a-5558db8514a4n@googlegroups.com>
<jae8ltF576jU1@mid.individual.net>
Reply-To: jennings&co@fastmail.fm
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Trace: individual.net 0TIEo0bbc5FlcljU1f7MQASYfOKLLRq7szarSes7cQcW6u/Jie
Cancel-Lock: sha1:aMNFCgHrFdDUnlfVTvU8v/cTknQ=
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/60.6.1
In-Reply-To: <jae8ltF576jU1@mid.individual.net>
Content-Language: en-GB
X-Antivirus: AVG (VPS 220327-4, 3/27/2022), Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
 by: JNugent - Mon, 28 Mar 2022 17:16 UTC

On 28/03/2022 06:13 pm, JNugent wrote:

> On 28/03/2022 05:04 pm, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:

>> The presenter shared this shocking piece of driving, accompanied by
>> some very hard braking and shouting on his behalf, as the driver pulls
>> out from a side road, completely oblivious to the presence of Vine on
>> the main carriageway.

>> As Vine noted, the first reply blaming him for the incident arrived
>> "within 2 minutes", with Surrey's Road Policing Unit chipping in to
>> explain why this person was so very wrong. This person then continues
>> to argue with the actual road police about road policing openly on
>> social media, which is too toe-curling to share any more of really...

>> https://road.cc/content/news/cycling-live-blog-28-march-2022-291443#live-blog-item-32843

> Vine (like several other prominent fairy-cyclists) is always looking for
> trouble. Is it any surprise that he finds it when he over-reacts to the
> slightest error from other road-users?

> "Rebellion lay in his way, and he found it."

> Henry IV part 1. Act IV scene 1.

> BTW: "hard braking"?

> What braking?

> He steams on with his "my right of way" red-mist attitude, even on to
> the wrong side of the carriageway, regardless of the risks and of the
> fact that there is a much easier and safer way to deal with other
> people's errors: STOP.

> "The better part of valour is discretion."

> Henry IN part 1. Act V scene 4.

[My typo! Henry IV part 1. Act V scene 4.]

Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute... only to be told it was his fault

<t1udul$1a8b$2@gioia.aioe.org>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=7515&group=uk.rec.cycling#7515

 copy link   Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!MsNpEJKmN8XEFg9m9req6w.user.46.165.242.75.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Aero.Sp...@mail.invalid (Spike)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Subject: Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute...
only to be told it was his fault
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2022 07:53:59 +0000
Organization: "Freedom is sloppy. But since tyranny's the only guaranteed
by-product of those who insist on a perfect world, freedom will have to do"
Message-ID: <t1udul$1a8b$2@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <85d9ea47-33ed-4511-b65a-5558db8514a4n@googlegroups.com>
<jae8ltF576jU1@mid.individual.net>
Reply-To: Aero.Spike@mail.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Info: gioia.aioe.org; logging-data="43275"; posting-host="MsNpEJKmN8XEFg9m9req6w.user.gioia.aioe.org"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@aioe.org";
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/52.9.1
X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.9.2
Content-Language: en-GB
 by: Spike - Tue, 29 Mar 2022 07:53 UTC

On 28/03/2022 17:13, JNugent wrote:
> On 28/03/2022 05:04 pm, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:

>> The presenter shared this shocking piece of driving, accompanied by some very hard braking and shouting on his behalf, as the driver pulls out from a side road, completely oblivious to the presence of Vine on the main carriageway.

>> As Vine noted, the first reply blaming him for the incident arrived "within 2 minutes", with Surrey's Road Policing Unit chipping in to explain why this person was so very wrong. This person then continues to argue with the actual road police about road policing openly on social media, which is too toe-curling to share any more of really...

>> https://road.cc/content/news/cycling-live-blog-28-march-2022-291443#live-blog-item-32843

> Vine (like several other prominent fairy-cyclists) is always looking for
> trouble. Is it any surprise that he finds it when he over-reacts to the
> slightest error from other road-users?

> "Rebellion lay in his way, and he found it."

> Henry IV part 1. Act IV scene 1.

> BTW: "hard braking"?

> What braking?

> He steams on with his "my right of way" red-mist attitude, even on to
> the wrong side of the carriageway, regardless of the risks and of the
> fact that there is a much easier and safer way to deal with other
> people's errors: STOP.

> "The better part of valour is discretion."

> Henry IN part 1. Act V scene 4.

Excellent!

--
Spike

Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute... only to be told it was his fault

<t212f7$8po$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=7580&group=uk.rec.cycling#7580

 copy link   Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: dr6...@gmail.com (TMS320)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Subject: Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute...
only to be told it was his fault
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2022 08:56:23 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 46
Message-ID: <t212f7$8po$1@dont-email.me>
References: <85d9ea47-33ed-4511-b65a-5558db8514a4n@googlegroups.com>
<jae8ltF576jU1@mid.individual.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2022 07:56:23 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="e0aaa975305861f1f61cdde76eb4864f";
logging-data="9016"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+8H2PDHqeHjdr5pgbsJNTM"
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/91.7.0
Cancel-Lock: sha1:ufN5aPujskd8SNeJDS9AvizDvaI=
In-Reply-To: <jae8ltF576jU1@mid.individual.net>
Content-Language: en-GB
 by: TMS320 - Wed, 30 Mar 2022 07:56 UTC

On 28/03/2022 18:13, JNugent wrote:
> On 28/03/2022 05:04 pm, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> The presenter shared this shocking piece of driving, accompanied by
>> some very hard braking and shouting on his behalf, as the driver pulls
>> out from a side road, completely oblivious to the presence of Vine on
>> the main carriageway.
>>
>> As Vine noted, the first reply blaming him for the incident arrived
>> "within 2 minutes", with Surrey's Road Policing Unit chipping in to
>> explain why this person was so very wrong. This person then continues
>> to argue with the actual road police about road policing openly on
>> social media, which is too toe-curling to share any more of really...
>>
>> https://road.cc/content/news/cycling-live-blog-28-march-2022-291443#live-blog-item-32843
>>
>
> Vine (like several other prominent fairy-cyclists) is always looking for
> trouble. Is it any surprise that he finds it when he over-reacts to the
> slightest error from other road-users?

I can't work out what his problem was, either. It was an easy situation
and all that noise probably contributed to the driver's confusion.

> "Rebellion lay in his way, and he found it."
>
> Henry IV part 1. Act IV scene 1.
>
> BTW: "hard braking"?
>
> What braking?

There was a clear reduction in speed 4 seconds in, when the driver
finally made the decision to go.

> He steams on with his "my right of way" red-mist attitude, even on to
> the wrong side of the carriageway, regardless of the risks and of the
> fact that there is a much easier and safer way to deal with other
> people's errors: STOP.

The eventualities were that the driver would pull out before JV got
there or that the driver would wait (straddling the give way line) until
JV passed. Slow and prepare to stop, certainly, but there was never a
pressing need to stop.

When clear behind, moving out from the kerb is the right thing to do.

Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute... only to be told it was his fault

<jair8vF1fvkU1@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=7592&group=uk.rec.cycling#7592

 copy link   Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!news.szaf.org!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: jennings...@fastmail.fm (JNugent)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Subject: Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute...
only to be told it was his fault
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2022 11:55:27 +0100
Organization: Home User
Lines: 81
Message-ID: <jair8vF1fvkU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <85d9ea47-33ed-4511-b65a-5558db8514a4n@googlegroups.com>
<jae8ltF576jU1@mid.individual.net> <t212f7$8po$1@dont-email.me>
Reply-To: jennings&co@fastmail.fm
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Trace: individual.net S5/+msOEacKCZW2yUzC5RgP3NZhA17EOxTa3ujdgpYjKbU8dpO
Cancel-Lock: sha1:O7knbFA9UrdkOsZIFyiuYQTjfOQ=
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/60.6.1
In-Reply-To: <t212f7$8po$1@dont-email.me>
Content-Language: en-GB
X-Antivirus: AVG (VPS 220330-2, 3/30/2022), Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
 by: JNugent - Wed, 30 Mar 2022 10:55 UTC

On 30/03/2022 08:56 am, TMS320 wrote:

> On 28/03/2022 18:13, JNugent wrote:
>> On 28/03/2022 05:04 pm, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>> The presenter shared this shocking piece of driving, accompanied by
>>> some very hard braking and shouting on his behalf, as the driver
>>> pulls out from a side road, completely oblivious to the presence of
>>> Vine on the main carriageway.

That's called a "mistake" or an "error".

Others should try to minimise, rather than maximise, its effects.
Reacted to safely and intelligently (no chance!) by the fairy-cyclist,
the incident would have caused no danger. I could not count the number
of times someone has pulled out in front of me in similar circumstances.
Oddly, I have never collided with any of them.
>
>>> As Vine noted, the first reply blaming him for the incident arrived
>>> "within 2 minutes", with Surrey's Road Policing Unit chipping in to
>>> explain why this person was so very wrong. This person then continues
>>> to argue with the actual road police about road policing openly on
>>> social media, which is too toe-curling to share any more of really...
>
>>> https://road.cc/content/news/cycling-live-blog-28-march-2022-291443#live-blog-item-32843
>
>> Vine (like several other prominent fairy-cyclists) is always looking
>> for trouble. Is it any surprise that he finds it when he over-reacts
>> to the slightest error from other road-users?
>
> I can't work out what his problem was, either. It was an easy situation
>  and all that noise probably contributed to the driver's confusion.
>
>> "Rebellion lay in his way, and he found it."
>>
>> Henry IV part 1. Act IV scene 1.
>>
>> BTW: "hard braking"?
>>
>> What braking?
>
> There was a clear reduction in speed 4 seconds in, when the driver
> finally made the decision to go.

Nothing remotely near enough. The reaction should have occurred much
earlier.

Vine behaved VERY stupidly.

Would YOU have passed over onto the other side of the road in order to
get past at all costs, even though any danger could have been obviated
by stopping?

If you say "Yes", I shan't believe you. You are not that stupid... I hope.

I certainly would not have behaved like Vine (who is a clear obsessive
nutter in matters of this sort).

As I said:

>> He steams on with his "my right of way" red-mist attitude, even on to
>> the wrong side of the carriageway, regardless of the risks and of the
>> fact that there is a much easier and safer way to deal with other
>> people's errors: STOP.
>
> The eventualities were that the driver would pull out before JV got
> there or that the driver would wait (straddling the give way line) until
> JV passed. Slow and prepare to stop, certainly, but there was never a
> pressing need to stop.

You say "eventualities", but you *must* mean "possibilities".

> When clear behind, moving out from the kerb is the right thing to do.

In certain circumstances. In the circumstances shown in that video, the
right thing for the fairy-cyclist (or any other approaching road-user)
to do was STOP. Don't compound someone else's error.

Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute... only to be told it was his fault

<jajg6bF5bofU5@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=7614&group=uk.rec.cycling#7614

 copy link   Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!news.szaf.org!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: jennings...@fastmail.fm (JNugent)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Subject: Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute...
only to be told it was his fault
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2022 17:52:27 +0100
Organization: Home User
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <jajg6bF5bofU5@mid.individual.net>
References: <85d9ea47-33ed-4511-b65a-5558db8514a4n@googlegroups.com>
<jae8ltF576jU1@mid.individual.net> <t212f7$8po$1@dont-email.me>
<2ea4bfe7-0e96-4f7d-a57e-4774f5c0173en@googlegroups.com>
Reply-To: jennings&co@fastmail.fm
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Trace: individual.net QfNcbDWkIUpos6w2i3fUqgjEKpNu8TSvRaJYdOAqcHqWO1xpN2
Cancel-Lock: sha1:SEVx06esMIguOvKi0PjFnqzzdPM=
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/60.6.1
In-Reply-To: <2ea4bfe7-0e96-4f7d-a57e-4774f5c0173en@googlegroups.com>
Content-Language: en-GB
X-Antivirus: AVG (VPS 220330-2, 3/30/2022), Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
 by: JNugent - Wed, 30 Mar 2022 16:52 UTC

On 30/03/2022 12:27 pm, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:

> On Wednesday, March 30, 2022 at 8:56:26 AM UTC+1, TMS320 wrote:

>> When clear behind, moving out from the kerb is the right thing to do.

> The police have already cleared this up:

> QUOTE:
> The car breaches the Give Way lines (offence) the cyclist moves out and away from danger (correct) the driver keeps going (new offence), the cyclist sounds his horn (legal), the cyclist moves to nearside to avoid collision. ENDS

Absolute garbage, with gold plated knobs.

You do NOT avoid danger by deliberately moving into its path.

Only a loony would do that, so...

Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute... only to be told it was his fault

<t246id$lij$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=7633&group=uk.rec.cycling#7633

 copy link   Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: dr6...@gmail.com (TMS320)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Subject: Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute...
only to be told it was his fault
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2022 13:24:44 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 130
Message-ID: <t246id$lij$1@dont-email.me>
References: <85d9ea47-33ed-4511-b65a-5558db8514a4n@googlegroups.com>
<jae8ltF576jU1@mid.individual.net> <t212f7$8po$1@dont-email.me>
<jair8vF1fvkU1@mid.individual.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2022 12:24:45 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="7071bc7372f04772d7a6202623347469";
logging-data="22099"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+M9BVTlDEsKxa6AlrTCYKl"
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/91.7.0
Cancel-Lock: sha1:NWPhr9IZVy9o5QnxV1h9vilxf1A=
In-Reply-To: <jair8vF1fvkU1@mid.individual.net>
Content-Language: en-GB
 by: TMS320 - Thu, 31 Mar 2022 12:24 UTC

On 30/03/2022 11:55, JNugent wrote:
> On 30/03/2022 08:56 am, TMS320 wrote:
>> On 28/03/2022 18:13, JNugent wrote:
>>> On 28/03/2022 05:04 pm, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>> The presenter shared this shocking piece of driving, accompanied by
>>>> some very hard braking and shouting on his behalf, as the driver
>>>> pulls out from a side road, completely oblivious to the presence of
>>>> Vine on the main carriageway.
>
> That's called a "mistake" or an "error".

The driver's hesitation is not suggestive of being oblivious. I have
found this type of hesitation is a characteristic of the driver
realising something is approaching but being unsure of what it is and
how much time/space is available.

> Others should try to minimise, rather than maximise, its effects.
> Reacted to safely and intelligently (no chance!) by the cyclist,
> the incident would have caused no danger.

JV was faced with a situation that presented danger, no matter what he
did. His job was to avoid damage. Trying to suggest he caused danger is
stupid.

> I could not count the number
> of times someone has pulled out in front of me in similar circumstances.

If you rode a bicycle, you would discover how trivially uneventful
driving is.

> Oddly, I have never collided with any of them.

Oddly, JV didn't collide with anything.

>>>> As Vine noted, the first reply blaming him for the incident arrived
>>>> "within 2 minutes", with Surrey's Road Policing Unit chipping in to
>>>> explain why this person was so very wrong. This person then
>>>> continues to argue with the actual road police about road policing
>>>> openly on social media, which is too toe-curling to share any more
>>>> of really...
>>
>>>> https://road.cc/content/news/cycling-live-blog-28-march-2022-291443#live-blog-item-32843
>>
>>> Vine (like several other prominent cyclists) is always looking
>>> for trouble. Is it any surprise that he finds it when he over-reacts
>>> to the slightest error from other road-users?

Sigh, it's a people thing, not an evil cyclist thing.

>> I can't work out what his problem was, either. It was an easy
>> situation  and all that noise probably contributed to the driver's
>> confusion.
>>
>>> "Rebellion lay in his way, and he found it."
>>>
>>> Henry IV part 1. Act IV scene 1.
>>>
>>> BTW: "hard braking"?
>>>
>>> What braking?
>>
>> There was a clear reduction in speed 4 seconds in, when the driver
>> finally made the decision to go.
>
> Nothing remotely near enough. The reaction should have occurred much
> earlier.

Preparation for what might play out was done at the right time. The
braking was done at the right time.

> Vine behaved VERY stupidly.

The noise was stupid.

> Would YOU have passed over onto the other side of the road in order to
> get past at all costs, even though any danger could have been obviated
> by stopping?

It is not indicative of "getting by at all costs". Drivers do stop with
wheels over the line to present a clear opportunity to get by. Being out
there in anticipation makes a smoother curve.

> If you say "Yes", I shan't believe you. You are not that stupid... I hope.

Of course it is "yes" in the circumstances seen. Not necessarily on
another occasion.

As well as the reason above, a driver does not tend to look along the
kerb so moving out puts the cyclist where the driver is looking. The
sideways movement also breaks up the background to offer better clues to
range and speed.

Are you trying to suggest that a cyclists should not make themselves
visible?

> I certainly would not have behaved like Vine (who is a clear obsessive
> nutter in matters of this sort).

You almost certainly do a version of it when you drive. Except that a
car's size, relative to space available, gives you less room to move.

> As I said:
>
>>> He steams on with his "my right of way" red-mist attitude, even on to
>>> the wrong side of the carriageway, regardless of the risks and of the
>>> fact that there is a much easier and safer way to deal with other
>>> people's errors: STOP.
>>
>> The eventualities were that the driver would pull out before JV got
>> there or that the driver would wait (straddling the give way line)
>> until JV passed. Slow and prepare to stop, certainly, but there was
>> never a pressing need to stop.
>
> You say "eventualities", but you *must* mean "possibilities".

I have done some gliding. Before a winch launch, the pilot considers
"eventualities" - what to do if winch fails at low altitude.

>> When clear behind, moving out from the kerb is the right thing to do.
>
> In certain circumstances. In the circumstances shown in that video, the
> right thing for the cyclist (or any other approaching road-user)
> to do was STOP.

Well, it's an opinion.

> Don't compound someone else's error.

Not the same thing.

Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute... only to be told it was his fault

<jalomhFilb9U1@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=7639&group=uk.rec.cycling#7639

 copy link   Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!news.uzoreto.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: jennings...@fastmail.fm (JNugent)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Subject: Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute...
only to be told it was his fault
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2022 14:29:53 +0100
Organization: Home User
Lines: 190
Message-ID: <jalomhFilb9U1@mid.individual.net>
References: <85d9ea47-33ed-4511-b65a-5558db8514a4n@googlegroups.com>
<jae8ltF576jU1@mid.individual.net> <t212f7$8po$1@dont-email.me>
<jair8vF1fvkU1@mid.individual.net> <t246id$lij$1@dont-email.me>
Reply-To: jennings&co@fastmail.fm
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Trace: individual.net gHZ4B67jSPX3F+9MIc5O6QSVy/MMoRvhxd+P5Yi3GZo0gclJoP
Cancel-Lock: sha1:QPQZXVUhdAeCwYCqPaUVClfmhKs=
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/60.6.1
In-Reply-To: <t246id$lij$1@dont-email.me>
Content-Language: en-GB
X-Antivirus: AVG (VPS 220331-8, 3/31/2022), Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
 by: JNugent - Thu, 31 Mar 2022 13:29 UTC

On 31/03/2022 01:24 pm, TMS320 wrote:

> On 30/03/2022 11:55, JNugent wrote:
>> On 30/03/2022 08:56 am, TMS320 wrote:
>>> On 28/03/2022 18:13, JNugent wrote:
>>>> On 28/03/2022 05:04 pm, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>>> The presenter shared this shocking piece of driving, accompanied by
>>>>> some very hard braking and shouting on his behalf, as the driver
>>>>> pulls out from a side road, completely oblivious to the presence of
>>>>> Vine on the main carriageway.
>>
>> That's called a "mistake" or an "error".
>
> The driver's hesitation is not suggestive of being oblivious. I have
> found this type of hesitation is a characteristic of the driver
> realising something is approaching but being unsure of what it is and
> how much time/space is available.

A mistake does not automatically mean connotations of "obliviousness".
The sort of error made by that driver is probably more connected with
mistaking the speed of the approaching vehicle.

In an urban environment, there are lots of situations where unless
someone pulls out across a give way line while someone is approaching
along the major route, they will never get out at all in any reasonable
time (and neither will anyone stuck behind them). Judgment is required
on the balance between the approaching speed of the other vehicle(s) and
the time it will take to get to the far side of the road to be out of
its way.

Have you ever driven in Italy, BTW? ;-)
>
>> Others should try to minimise, rather than maximise, its effects.
>> Reacted to safely and intelligently (no chance!) by the cyclist, the
>> incident would have caused no danger.
>
> JV was faced with a situation that presented danger, no matter what he
> did.

RUBBISH.

He could have stopped.

> His job was to avoid damage. Trying to suggest he caused danger is
> stupid.

He caused more danger, and for a longer [period of time, than was
necessary.

What WAS the point of his crossing to the wrong side of the road? That
was where the other vehicle was *heading*!
>
>> I could not count the number of times someone has pulled out in front
>> of me in similar circumstances.
>
> If you rode a bicycle, you would discover how trivially uneventful
> driving is.
>
>> Oddly, I have never collided with any of them.
>
> Oddly, JV didn't collide with anything.

He could have reduced the danger to zero by stopping. Like I would have
done.
>
>>>>> As Vine noted, the first reply blaming him for the incident arrived
>>>>> "within 2 minutes", with Surrey's Road Policing Unit chipping in to
>>>>> explain why this person was so very wrong. This person then
>>>>> continues to argue with the actual road police about road policing
>>>>> openly on social media, which is too toe-curling to share any more
>>>>> of really...
>>>
>>>>> https://road.cc/content/news/cycling-live-blog-28-march-2022-291443#live-blog-item-32843
>
>>>> Vine (like several other prominent cyclists) is always looking for
>>>> trouble. Is it any surprise that he finds it when he over-reacts to
>>>> the slightest error from other road-users?
>
> Sigh, it's a people thing, not an evil cyclist thing.

I didn't say it was a fairy-cyclist thing. It is a certain sort of
people thing. And Vine is one of them. He's not the only one, as we all
know.

>>> I can't work out what his problem was, either. It was an easy
>>> situation  and all that noise probably contributed to the driver's
>>> confusion.
>
>>>> "Rebellion lay in his way, and he found it."
>
>>>> Henry IV part 1. Act IV scene 1.
>
>>>> BTW: "hard braking"?
>
>>>> What braking?
>
>>> There was a clear reduction in speed 4 seconds in, when the driver
>>> finally made the decision to go.
>
>> Nothing remotely near enough. The reaction should have occurred much
>> earlier.
>
> Preparation for what might play out was done at the right time. The
> braking was done at the right time.
>
>> Vine behaved VERY stupidly.
>
> The noise was stupid.
>
>> Would YOU have passed over onto the other side of the road in order to
>> get past at all costs, even though any danger could have been obviated
>> by stopping?
>
> It is not indicative of "getting by at all costs". Drivers do stop with
> wheels over the line to present a clear opportunity to get by. Being out
> there in anticipation makes a smoother curve.

The "other side of the road" was where the driver was heading. Stopping
for a second or two, until the car had passed across Vine's projected
path and was saefly out of the way, was the optimum strategy.
>
>> If you say "Yes", I shan't believe you. You are not that stupid... I
>> hope.
>
> Of course it is "yes" in the circumstances seen. Not necessarily on
> another occasion.

Then you are claiming to be as stupid and as aggressive as Vine.

That's quite some admission.

> As well as the reason above, a driver does not tend to look along the
> kerb so moving out puts the cyclist where the driver is looking. The
> sideways movement also breaks up the background to offer better clues to
> range and speed.
>
> Are you trying to suggest that a cyclists should not make themselves
> visible?

Why would I suggest that?

Why do you even ask it?
>
>> I certainly would not have behaved like Vine (who is a clear obsessive
>> nutter in matters of this sort).
>
> You almost certainly do a version of it when you drive. Except that a
> car's size, relative to space available, gives you less room to move.

Rubbish. I have been driving for fifty years this year and have never
come close to such a position. When necessary, I immediately use the
brakes. No fairy-cyclist-style red mist descends. I just stop, driving
defensively as the highest priority.

>> As I said:
>
>>>> He steams on with his "my right of way" red-mist attitude, even on
>>>> to the wrong side of the carriageway, regardless of the risks and of
>>>> the fact that there is a much easier and safer way to deal with
>>>> other people's errors: STOP.
>
>>> The eventualities were that the driver would pull out before JV got
>>> there or that the driver would wait (straddling the give way line)
>>> until JV passed. Slow and prepare to stop, certainly, but there was
>>> never a pressing need to stop.
>
>> You say "eventualities", but you *must* mean "possibilities".
>
> I have done some gliding. Before a winch launch, the pilot considers
> "eventualities" - what to do if winch fails at low altitude.

Possibilities.

>>> When clear behind, moving out from the kerb is the right thing to do.
>>
>> In certain circumstances. In the circumstances shown in that video,
>> the right thing for the cyclist (or any other approaching road-user)
>> to do was STOP.
>
> Well, it's an opinion.
>
>> Don't compound someone else's error.
>
> Not the same thing.

Stop before reaching the possible point of collision. Then you won't
collide with whatever moved into your path. It might be a human being,
don't forget.

Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute... only to be told it was his fault

<t255sf$q1u$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=7665&group=uk.rec.cycling#7665

 copy link   Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: dr6...@gmail.com (TMS320)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Subject: Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute...
only to be told it was his fault
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2022 22:19:11 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 187
Message-ID: <t255sf$q1u$1@dont-email.me>
References: <85d9ea47-33ed-4511-b65a-5558db8514a4n@googlegroups.com>
<jae8ltF576jU1@mid.individual.net> <t212f7$8po$1@dont-email.me>
<jair8vF1fvkU1@mid.individual.net> <t246id$lij$1@dont-email.me>
<jalomhFilb9U1@mid.individual.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2022 21:19:12 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="7071bc7372f04772d7a6202623347469";
logging-data="26686"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18iVNN+8SisiP6q0StaQoMZ"
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/91.7.0
Cancel-Lock: sha1:RNIvZJc0MTd3zj95vp6RxOoyS5Q=
In-Reply-To: <jalomhFilb9U1@mid.individual.net>
Content-Language: en-GB
 by: TMS320 - Thu, 31 Mar 2022 21:19 UTC

On 31/03/2022 14:29, JNugent wrote:
> On 31/03/2022 01:24 pm, TMS320 wrote:
>> On 30/03/2022 11:55, JNugent wrote:
>>> On 30/03/2022 08:56 am, TMS320 wrote:
>>>> On 28/03/2022 18:13, JNugent wrote:
>>>>> On 28/03/2022 05:04 pm, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>

>>
>> The driver's hesitation is not suggestive of being oblivious. I
>> have found this type of hesitation is a characteristic of the
>> driver realising something is approaching but being unsure of what
>> it is and how much time/space is available.
>
> A mistake does not automatically mean connotations of
> "obliviousness". The sort of error made by that driver is probably
> more connected with mistaking the speed of the approaching vehicle.

Are you agreeing or arguing?

> In an urban environment, there are lots of situations where unless
> someone pulls out across a give way line while someone is approaching
> along the major route, they will never get out at all in any
> reasonable time (and neither will anyone stuck behind them). Judgment
> is required on the balance between the approaching speed of the other
> vehicle(s) and the time it will take to get to the far side of the
> road to be out of its way.

This was a quiet time...

> Have you ever driven in Italy, BTW? ;-)

....and did not take place in Italy.

>>> Others should try to minimise, rather than maximise, its effects.
>>> Reacted to safely and intelligently (no chance!) by the cyclist,
>>> the incident would have caused no danger.
>>
>> JV was faced with a situation that presented danger, no matter what
>> he did.
>
> RUBBISH.
>
> He could have stopped.

He could have. But there was no need.

>> His job was to avoid damage. Trying to suggest he caused danger is
>> stupid.
>
> He caused more danger, and for a longer [period of time, than was
> necessary.

Ah, you now admit danger was put in his way.

> What WAS the point of his crossing to the wrong side of the road?
> That was where the other vehicle was *heading*!

He didn't cross to the other side of the road.

At least 95% of the time when a hesitant driver crosses the give way
line in front of me, the driver will still wait and give way.

Do you seriously think I can't tell the difference between a driver
trying to create a gap in traffic and someone being hesitant?

>>>>> Vine (like several other prominent cyclists) is always
>>>>> looking for trouble. Is it any surprise that he finds it when
>>>>> he over-reacts to the slightest error from other road-users?
>>
>> Sigh, it's a people thing, not an evil cyclist thing.
>
> I didn't say it was a cyclist thing. It is a certain sort of people
> thing. And Vine is one of them. He's not the only one, as we all
> know.

"Prominent cyclists..."

>>> Would YOU have passed over onto the other side of the road in
>>> order to get past at all costs, even though any danger could have
>>> been obviated by stopping?
>>
>> It is not indicative of "getting by at all costs". Drivers do stop
>> with wheels over the line to present a clear opportunity to get
>> by. Being out there in anticipation makes a smoother curve.
>
> The "other side of the road" was where the driver was heading.
> Stopping for a second or two, until the car had passed across Vine's
> projected path and was saefly out of the way, was the optimum
> strategy.

Yes, we know where the driver was heading. Having moved from the kerb, a
cyclist makes options not commitments.

>>> If you say "Yes", I shan't believe you. You are not that
>>> stupid... I hope.
>>
>> Of course it is "yes" in the circumstances seen. Not necessarily on
>> another occasion.
>
> Then you are claiming to be as stupid and as aggressive as Vine.
>
> That's quite some admission.

It is being assertive, not aggressive.

>> As well as the reason above, a driver does not tend to look along
>> the kerb so moving out puts the cyclist where the driver is
>> looking. The sideways movement also breaks up the background to
>> offer better clues to range and speed.
>>
>> Are you trying to suggest that a cyclists should not make
>> themselves visible?
>
> Why would I suggest that?
>
> Why do you even ask it?

Nugent SOP of responding to a question with a question.

Answer my question.

>>> I certainly would not have behaved like Vine (who is a clear
>>> obsessive nutter in matters of this sort).
>>
>> You almost certainly do a version of it when you drive. Except that
>> a car's size, relative to space available, gives you less room to
>> move.
>
> Rubbish. I have been driving for fifty years this year and have never
> come close to such a position.

50 years of stopping the moment someone goes "boo!" Oh well.

> When necessary, I immediately use the brakes. No cyclist-style red
> mist descends. I just stop, driving defensively as the highest
> priority.

Assertiveness is part of being defensive. JV's red mist was the noise
and fuss he made.

>>> As I said:
>>
>>>>> He steams on with his "my right of way" red-mist attitude,
>>>>> even on to the wrong side of the carriageway, regardless of
>>>>> the risks and of the fact that there is a much easier and
>>>>> safer way to deal with other people's errors: STOP.
>>
>>>> The eventualities were that the driver would pull out before JV
>>>> got there or that the driver would wait (straddling the give
>>>> way line) until JV passed. Slow and prepare to stop, certainly,
>>>> but there was never a pressing need to stop.
>>
>>> You say "eventualities", but you *must* mean "possibilities".
>>
>> I have done some gliding. Before a winch launch, the pilot
>> considers "eventualities" - what to do if winch fails at low
>> altitude.
>
> Possibilities.

That one or other of the events I described will happen has a very high
certainty. A possibility that the vehicle could dance a jig is not likely.

>>>> When clear behind, moving out from the kerb is the right thing
>>>> to do.
>>>
>>> In certain circumstances. In the circumstances shown in that
>>> video, the right thing for the cyclist (or any other approaching
>>> road-user) to do was STOP.
>>
>> Well, it's an opinion.
>>
>>> Don't compound someone else's error.
>>
>> Not the same thing.
>
> Stop before reaching the possible point of collision. Then you won't
> collide with whatever moved into your path.

Have you tought your granny suck eggs?

> It might be a human being, don't forget.

Yes, in my time, I have noticed that human beings sometimes wander about
in the road. Mainly in front of bicycles, less so in front of motor
vehicles.

Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute... only to be told it was his fault

<jantvdFps0U1@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=7676&group=uk.rec.cycling#7676

 copy link   Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!news.uzoreto.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: jennings...@fastmail.fm (JNugent)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Subject: Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute...
only to be told it was his fault
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2022 10:12:13 +0100
Organization: Home User
Lines: 237
Message-ID: <jantvdFps0U1@mid.individual.net>
References: <85d9ea47-33ed-4511-b65a-5558db8514a4n@googlegroups.com>
<jae8ltF576jU1@mid.individual.net> <t212f7$8po$1@dont-email.me>
<jair8vF1fvkU1@mid.individual.net> <t246id$lij$1@dont-email.me>
<jalomhFilb9U1@mid.individual.net> <t255sf$q1u$1@dont-email.me>
Reply-To: jennings&co@fastmail.fm
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Trace: individual.net 9Hd0KZDvEd+422vDVEFDvwsUXkZyXkBXLwQw3zJl+/ntfEIL6X
Cancel-Lock: sha1:e7Y5UkqBF4JCCwmgRaV27VitbP0=
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/60.6.1
In-Reply-To: <t255sf$q1u$1@dont-email.me>
Content-Language: en-GB
X-Antivirus: AVG (VPS 220401-2, 4/1/2022), Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
 by: JNugent - Fri, 1 Apr 2022 09:12 UTC

On 31/03/2022 10:19 pm, TMS320 wrote:
> On 31/03/2022 14:29, JNugent wrote:
>> On 31/03/2022 01:24 pm, TMS320 wrote:
>>> On 30/03/2022 11:55, JNugent wrote:
>>>> On 30/03/2022 08:56 am, TMS320 wrote:
>>>>> On 28/03/2022 18:13, JNugent wrote:
>>>>>> On 28/03/2022 05:04 pm, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>
>
>>>
>>> The driver's hesitation is not suggestive of being oblivious. I have
>>> found this type of hesitation is a characteristic of the driver
>>> realising something is approaching but being unsure of what
>>>  it is and how much time/space is available.
>>
>> A mistake does not automatically mean connotations of "obliviousness".
>> The sort of error made by that driver is probably more connected with
>> mistaking the speed of the approaching vehicle.
>
> Are you agreeing or arguing?

You sad the drver was "oblivious" of the fairy-cyclist.

I said that that is not likely. He merely misjudged the numbers.

>> In an urban environment, there are lots of situations where unless
>> someone pulls out across a give way line while someone is approaching
>> along the major route, they will never get out at all in any
>> reasonable time (and neither will anyone stuck behind them). Judgment
>> is required on the balance between the approaching speed of the other
>> vehicle(s) and the time it will take to get to the far side of the
>> road to be out of its way.
>
> This was a quiet time...

Judgment is required all the time.

>> Have you ever driven in Italy, BTW? ;-)
>
> ...and did not take place in Italy.

Oddly, drivers pulling out across give way lines into traffic (a very
common occurrence there) has not yet caused the end of the world - but
people there are used to it and are expecting it.

>>>> Others should try to minimise, rather than maximise, its effects.
>>>> Reacted to safely and intelligently (no chance!) by the cyclist,
>>>> the incident would have caused no danger.
>
>>> JV was faced with a situation that presented danger, no matter what
>>> he did.
>
>> RUBBISH.
>> He could have stopped.
>
> He could have.  But there was no need.

There's have been no danger whatsoever if he'd stopped. He chose to
create unnecessary danger by not stopping - he allowed his usual red
mist reaction to take over.

>>> His job was to avoid damage. Trying to suggest he caused danger is
>>>  stupid.
>
>> He caused more danger, and for a longer [period of time, than was
>> necessary.
>
> Ah, you now admit danger was put in his way.

I have not denied that the driver made a mistake. "Red Mist" Vine had no
business compounding it and making it worse.

>> What WAS the point of his crossing to the wrong side of the road? That
>> was where the other vehicle was *heading*!

> He didn't cross to the other side of the road.

Have another look. He crosses the centre line.

> At least 95% of the time when a hesitant driver crosses the give way
> line in front of me, the driver will still wait and give way.
> Do you seriously think I can't tell the difference between a driver
> trying to create a gap in traffic and someone being hesitant?
>
What difference does it make?

The easy choice is to remove all the danger from the situation by
*stopping*, though I do realise that that is against the religion of
many fairy-cyclists.

>>>>>> Vine (like several other prominent cyclists) is always looking for
>>>>>> trouble. Is it any surprise that he finds it when
>>>>>> he over-reacts to the slightest error from other road-users?
>
>>> Sigh, it's a people thing, not an evil cyclist thing.
>
>> I didn't say it was a cyclist thing. It is a certain sort of people
>> thing. And Vine is one of them. He's not the only one, as we all know.
>
> "Prominent cyclists..."

That's right. There's that bloke in Sctotland Atom something... and the
other Erp idiot.
>
>>>> Would YOU have passed over onto the other side of the road in order
>>>> to get past at all costs, even though any danger could have
>>>> been obviated by stopping?
>
>>> It is not indicative of "getting by at all costs". Drivers do stop
>>>  with wheels over the line to present a clear opportunity to get
>>> by. Being out there in anticipation makes a smoother curve.
>
>> The "other side of the road" was where the driver was heading.
>> Stopping for a second or two, until the car had passed across Vine's
>>  projected path and was saefly out of the way, was the optimum strategy.
>
> Yes, we know where the driver was heading. Having moved from the kerb, a
> cyclist makes options not commitments.

The car driver was never going to come at Vine along the nearside
gutter. He was heading for the other side of the carriageway. Vine
should have stopped. He may well have felt that he shouldn't have
stopped and that his yooman rites were being challenged, but Vine
increased the danger with every move he made. He should have *stopped*
and not compounded the driver's error.

>>>> If you say "Yes", I shan't believe you. You are not that stupid... I
>>>> hope.
>
>>> Of course it is "yes" in the circumstances seen. Not necessarily on
>>> another occasion.
>
>> Then you are claiming to be as stupid and as aggressive as Vine.
>> That's quite some admission.
>
> It is being assertive, not aggressive.

Vine is a fine example of the Red Mist fairy-cyclist. He is very
aggressive. He is constantly searching for trouble. And determined to
make it worse when he finds it.

And you say you are the same.

>>> As well as the reason above, a driver does not tend to look along the
>>> kerb so moving out puts the cyclist where the driver is looking. The
>>> sideways movement also breaks up the background to offer better clues
>>> to range and speed.
>
>>> Are you trying to suggest that a cyclists should not make themselves
>>> visible?
>
>> Why would I suggest that?
>> Why do you even ask it?
>
> Nugent SOP of responding to a question with a question.

Your question materialises out of nothing that has been said. It is a
silly question and I'm not going to dignify it with an answer. You
raised a non-issue by asking it.

> Answer my question.
>
>>>> I certainly would not have behaved like Vine (who is a clear
>>>> obsessive nutter in matters of this sort).
>>>
>>> You almost certainly do a version of it when you drive. Except that
>>> a car's size, relative to space available, gives you less room to
>>> move.
>>
>> Rubbish. I have been driving for fifty years this year and have never
>> come close to such a position.
>
> 50 years of stopping the moment someone goes "boo!" Oh well.

You can be childish if you like. I can't stop you.

>> When necessary, I immediately use the brakes. No cyclist-style red
>> mist descends. I just stop, driving defensively as the highest
>> priority.
>
> Assertiveness is part of being defensive. JV's red mist was the noise
> and fuss he made.

He should have concentrated on safety (his own and that of others).

>>>> As I said:
>
>>>>>> He steams on with his "my right of way" red-mist attitude, even on
>>>>>> to the wrong side of the carriageway, regardless of the risks and
>>>>>> of the fact that there is a much easier and safer way to deal with
>>>>>> other people's errors: STOP.
>
>>>>> The eventualities were that the driver would pull out before JV
>>>>> got there or that the driver would wait (straddling the give
>>>>> way line) until JV passed. Slow and prepare to stop, certainly,
>>>>> but there was never a pressing need to stop.
>
>>>> You say "eventualities", but you *must* mean "possibilities".
>
>>> I have done some gliding. Before a winch launch, the pilot considers
>>> "eventualities" - what to do if winch fails at low altitude.
>
>> Possibilities.
>
> That one or other of the events I described will happen has a very high
> certainty. A possibility that the vehicle could dance a jig is not likely.

Get thee to a library. Consult the Concise Oxford.


Click here to read the complete article
Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute... only to be told it was his fault

<t2aku1$6rm$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=7750&group=uk.rec.cycling#7750

 copy link   Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: dr6...@gmail.com (TMS320)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Subject: Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute...
only to be told it was his fault
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2022 00:06:41 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 71
Message-ID: <t2aku1$6rm$1@dont-email.me>
References: <85d9ea47-33ed-4511-b65a-5558db8514a4n@googlegroups.com>
<jae8ltF576jU1@mid.individual.net> <t212f7$8po$1@dont-email.me>
<jair8vF1fvkU1@mid.individual.net> <t246id$lij$1@dont-email.me>
<jalomhFilb9U1@mid.individual.net> <t255sf$q1u$1@dont-email.me>
<jantvdFps0U1@mid.individual.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2022 23:06:42 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="a133476af000675934a59e5ab2c4c3fa";
logging-data="7030"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19y0oStIw9CBAx3ZLgnJ/84"
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/91.7.0
Cancel-Lock: sha1:/iJ2meqtSlOvVSSDN2Nim8relxg=
In-Reply-To: <jantvdFps0U1@mid.individual.net>
Content-Language: en-GB
 by: TMS320 - Sat, 2 Apr 2022 23:06 UTC

On 01/04/2022 10:12, JNugent wrote:
> On 31/03/2022 10:19 pm, TMS320 wrote:
>> On 31/03/2022 14:29, JNugent wrote:
>>> On 31/03/2022 01:24 pm, TMS320 wrote:
>>>> On 30/03/2022 11:55, JNugent wrote:
>>>>> On 30/03/2022 08:56 am, TMS320 wrote:
>>>>>> On 28/03/2022 18:13, JNugent wrote:
>>>>>>> On 28/03/2022 05:04 pm, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The driver's hesitation is not suggestive of being oblivious. I
>>>> have found this type of hesitation is a characteristic of the
>>>> driver realising something is approaching but being unsure of
>>>> what it is and how much time/space is available.
>>>
>>> A mistake does not automatically mean connotations of
>>> "obliviousness". The sort of error made by that driver is
>>> probably more connected with mistaking the speed of the
>>> approaching vehicle.
>>
>> Are you agreeing or arguing?
>
> You sad the drver was "oblivious" of the cyclist.

Eh? What does the word 'not' imply?

<...>

>>>> As well as the reason above, a driver does not tend to look
>>>> along the kerb so moving out puts the cyclist where the driver
>>>> is looking. The sideways movement also breaks up the background
>>>> to offer better clues to range and speed. Are you trying to
>>>> suggest that a cyclists should not make themselves visible?
>>
>>> Why would I suggest that? Why do you even ask it?
>>
>> Nugent SOP of responding to a question with a question.
>
> Your question materialises out of nothing that has been said.

Ummm. It arises from "...moving out puts the cyclist where the driver is
looking..."

> It is a silly question and I'm not going to dignify it with an
> answer. You raised a non-issue by asking it.

Translation. "I don't like the question".

<...>
>>> Rubbish. I have been driving for fifty years this year and have
>>> never come close to such a position.
>>
>> 50 years of stopping the moment someone goes "boo!" Oh well.
>
> You can be childish if you like. I can't stop you.

You can believe you have wisdom that nobody else has. I can't stop you.

<...>
>>> It might be a human being, don't forget.
>>
>> Yes, in my time, I have noticed that human beings sometimes wander
>> about in the road. Mainly in front of bicycles, less so in front
>> of motor vehicles.
>
> In either case, the thing to do ("ask Alliston") is *stop*.

In either case, the thing to do is take an action that avoids a
collision, while maintaining progress where possible.

Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute... only to be told it was his fault

<jas3oaFpflkU1@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=7753&group=uk.rec.cycling#7753

 copy link   Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!news.szaf.org!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: jennings...@fastmail.fm (JNugent)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Subject: Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute...
only to be told it was his fault
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2022 00:15:22 +0100
Organization: Home User
Lines: 91
Message-ID: <jas3oaFpflkU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <85d9ea47-33ed-4511-b65a-5558db8514a4n@googlegroups.com>
<jae8ltF576jU1@mid.individual.net> <t212f7$8po$1@dont-email.me>
<jair8vF1fvkU1@mid.individual.net> <t246id$lij$1@dont-email.me>
<jalomhFilb9U1@mid.individual.net> <t255sf$q1u$1@dont-email.me>
<jantvdFps0U1@mid.individual.net> <t2aku1$6rm$1@dont-email.me>
Reply-To: jennings&co@fastmail.fm
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Trace: individual.net VmbZIV4F+csGiEs6nfePXgcpJo2fx6RcdQBinMX+W56iQW91jF
Cancel-Lock: sha1:TFcBqC+q+TC6xc66LJ0q1shF4xg=
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/60.6.1
In-Reply-To: <t2aku1$6rm$1@dont-email.me>
Content-Language: en-GB
X-Antivirus: AVG (VPS 220402-10, 4/2/2022), Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
 by: JNugent - Sat, 2 Apr 2022 23:15 UTC

On 03/04/2022 12:06 am, TMS320 wrote:
> On 01/04/2022 10:12, JNugent wrote:
>> On 31/03/2022 10:19 pm, TMS320 wrote:
>>> On 31/03/2022 14:29, JNugent wrote:
>>>> On 31/03/2022 01:24 pm, TMS320 wrote:
>>>>> On 30/03/2022 11:55, JNugent wrote:
>>>>>> On 30/03/2022 08:56 am, TMS320 wrote:
>>>>>>> On 28/03/2022 18:13, JNugent wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 28/03/2022 05:04 pm, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The driver's hesitation is not suggestive of being oblivious. I
>>>>> have found this type of hesitation is a characteristic of the
>>>>> driver realising something is approaching but being unsure of
>>>>> what it is and how much time/space is available.
>>>>
>>>> A mistake does not automatically mean connotations of
>>>> "obliviousness". The sort of error made by that driver is probably
>>>> more connected with mistaking the speed of the approaching vehicle.
>>>
>>> Are you agreeing or arguing?
>>
>> You sad the drver was "oblivious" of the cyclist.
>
> Eh? What does the word 'not' imply?

That's a fair question. I should have used the same word. But it doesn't
actually make any difference to the point. The driver mistook the speed
of the fairy-cycle. It seems we agree on that.

> <...>
>
>>>>> As well as the reason above, a driver does not tend to look along
>>>>> the kerb so moving out puts the cyclist where the driver is
>>>>> looking. The sideways movement also breaks up the background
>>>>> to offer better clues to range and speed. Are you trying to
>>>>> suggest that a cyclists should not make themselves visible?
>
>>>> Why would I suggest that? Why do you even ask it?
>
>>> Nugent SOP of responding to a question with a question.
>
>> Your question materialises out of nothing that has been said.
>
> Ummm. It arises from "...moving out puts the cyclist where the driver is
> looking..."

I didn't claim it. You did.

>> It is a silly question and I'm not going to dignify it with an answer.
>> You raised a non-issue by asking it.

> Translation. "I don't like the question".

I don't like any irrelevant questions used as a red herring.

And that's what it was.

> <...>
>>>> Rubbish. I have been driving for fifty years this year and have
>>>> never come close to such a position.
>
>>> 50 years of stopping the moment someone goes "boo!" Oh well.
>
>> You can be childish if you like. I can't stop you.
>
> You can believe you have wisdom that nobody else has. I can't stop you.

Don't be stupid. You know full well that stopping when heading towards a
collision is the best defence. Only a half-wit hurtles onward, trying to
avoid a collision by running straight into the path of the approaching
vehicle.

> <...>

>>>> It might be a human being, don't forget.
>
>>> Yes, in my time, I have noticed that human beings sometimes wander
>>>  about in the road. Mainly in front of bicycles, less so in front
>>> of motor vehicles.
>
>> In either case, the thing to do ("ask Alliston") is *stop*.
>
> In either case, the thing to do is take an action that avoids a
> collision, while maintaining progress where possible.

"Maintaining progress" is a distant second priority, not fit to be
mentioned in the same breath as the concept of being safe.

Ask Alliston.

Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute... only to be told it was his fault

<t2iisf$hb9$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=7892&group=uk.rec.cycling#7892

 copy link   Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: dr6...@gmail.com (TMS320)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Subject: Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute...
only to be told it was his fault
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 00:20:47 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 115
Message-ID: <t2iisf$hb9$1@dont-email.me>
References: <85d9ea47-33ed-4511-b65a-5558db8514a4n@googlegroups.com>
<jae8ltF576jU1@mid.individual.net> <t212f7$8po$1@dont-email.me>
<jair8vF1fvkU1@mid.individual.net> <t246id$lij$1@dont-email.me>
<jalomhFilb9U1@mid.individual.net> <t255sf$q1u$1@dont-email.me>
<jantvdFps0U1@mid.individual.net> <t2aku1$6rm$1@dont-email.me>
<jas3oaFpflkU1@mid.individual.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 23:20:47 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="04c01b3fffacfc504ac6b5729cf8450c";
logging-data="17769"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19wugHdMaRAF4XVssNhoOmU"
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/91.7.0
Cancel-Lock: sha1:yY/N9Ug54w0SC+5L8NNJg3TKYHc=
In-Reply-To: <jas3oaFpflkU1@mid.individual.net>
Content-Language: en-GB
 by: TMS320 - Tue, 5 Apr 2022 23:20 UTC

On 03/04/2022 00:15, JNugent wrote:
> On 03/04/2022 12:06 am, TMS320 wrote:
>> On 01/04/2022 10:12, JNugent wrote:
>>> On 31/03/2022 10:19 pm, TMS320 wrote:
>>>> On 31/03/2022 14:29, JNugent wrote:
>>>>> On 31/03/2022 01:24 pm, TMS320 wrote:
>>>>>> On 30/03/2022 11:55, JNugent wrote:
>>>>>>> On 30/03/2022 08:56 am, TMS320 wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 28/03/2022 18:13, JNugent wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 28/03/2022 05:04 pm, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The driver's hesitation is not suggestive of being oblivious. I
>>>>>> have found this type of hesitation is a characteristic of the
>>>>>> driver realising something is approaching but being unsure of
>>>>>> what it is and how much time/space is available.
>>>>>
>>>>> A mistake does not automatically mean connotations of
>>>>> "obliviousness". The sort of error made by that driver is probably
>>>>> more connected with mistaking the speed of the approaching vehicle.
>>>>
>>>> Are you agreeing or arguing?
>>>
>>> You sad the drver was "oblivious" of the cyclist.
>>
>> Eh? What does the word 'not' imply?
>
> That's a fair question. I should have used the same word. But it doesn't
> actually make any difference to the point. The driver mistook the speed
> of the cycle. It seems we agree on that.

Oblivious is the word some people used. I don't agree. There is a
practical difference between being hesitant and oblivious.

>> <...>
>>
>>>>>> As well as the reason above, a driver does not tend to look along
>>>>>> the kerb so moving out puts the cyclist where the driver is
>>>>>> looking. The sideways movement also breaks up the background
>>>>>> to offer better clues to range and speed. Are you trying to
>>>>>> suggest that a cyclists should not make themselves visible?
>>
>>>>> Why would I suggest that? Why do you even ask it?
>>
>>>> Nugent SOP of responding to a question with a question.
>>
>>> Your question materialises out of nothing that has been said.
>>
>> Ummm. It arises from "...moving out puts the cyclist where the driver is
>> looking..."
>
> I didn't claim it. You did.

I know I wrote it.

>>> It is a silly question and I'm not going to dignify it with an
>>> answer. You raised a non-issue by asking it.
>
>> Translation. "I don't like the question".
>
> I don't like any irrelevant questions used as a red herring.
>
> And that's what it was.

You took issue over why a cyclist did something and I told you why it is
done. It is relevant.

If you keep insisting this move is wrong, the only possibility is that
you don't want cyclists to make themselves visible.

>> <...>
>>>>> Rubbish. I have been driving for fifty years this year and have
>>>>> never come close to such a position.
>>
>>>> 50 years of stopping the moment someone goes "boo!" Oh well.
>>
>>> You can be childish if you like. I can't stop you.
>>
>> You can believe you have wisdom that nobody else has. I can't stop you.
>
> Don't be stupid. You know full well that stopping when heading towards a
> collision is the best defence. Only a half-wit hurtles onward, trying to
> avoid a collision by running straight into the path of the approaching
> vehicle.

A very simple fact still escapes you. There was no collision.

>> <...>
>
>>>>> It might be a human being, don't forget.
>>
>>>> Yes, in my time, I have noticed that human beings sometimes wander
>>>>  about in the road. Mainly in front of bicycles, less so in front
>>>> of motor vehicles.
>>
>>> In either case, the thing to do ("ask Alliston") is *stop*.
>>
>> In either case, the thing to do is take an action that avoids a
>> collision, while maintaining progress where possible.
>
> "Maintaining progress" is a distant second priority, not fit to be
> mentioned in the same breath as the concept of being safe.

The whole point of using the roads is to make progress from one place to
another. If that is not your priority, then you should stay at home.
Danger is always present and the technique is to manage it to avoid it
being converted to physical harm.

In principle, it is no different to knowing what parts of open, live
electrical equipment will or won't hurt. Your idea is equivalent to a
blanket instruction not to touch anything.

> Ask Alliston.

Talk about an irrelevance...

Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute... only to be told it was his fault

<jb5f8rFjf44U1@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=7909&group=uk.rec.cycling#7909

 copy link   Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.goja.nl.eu.org!3.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: jennings...@fastmail.fm (JNugent)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Subject: Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute...
only to be told it was his fault
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 13:27:07 +0100
Organization: Home User
Lines: 155
Message-ID: <jb5f8rFjf44U1@mid.individual.net>
References: <85d9ea47-33ed-4511-b65a-5558db8514a4n@googlegroups.com>
<jae8ltF576jU1@mid.individual.net> <t212f7$8po$1@dont-email.me>
<jair8vF1fvkU1@mid.individual.net> <t246id$lij$1@dont-email.me>
<jalomhFilb9U1@mid.individual.net> <t255sf$q1u$1@dont-email.me>
<jantvdFps0U1@mid.individual.net> <t2aku1$6rm$1@dont-email.me>
<jas3oaFpflkU1@mid.individual.net> <t2iisf$hb9$1@dont-email.me>
Reply-To: jennings&co@fastmail.fm
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Trace: individual.net T2R8bsZ7LAty+Hlnyi3NMAuKKWag5Gx+BONh9n1f5vZ8b+ARia
Cancel-Lock: sha1:Xo91VgJHW81NAvosOAP7ybzPU3g=
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/60.6.1
In-Reply-To: <t2iisf$hb9$1@dont-email.me>
Content-Language: en-GB
X-Antivirus: AVG (VPS 220406-0, 4/6/2022), Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
 by: JNugent - Wed, 6 Apr 2022 12:27 UTC

On 06/04/2022 12:20 am, TMS320 wrote:

> On 03/04/2022 00:15, JNugent wrote:
>> On 03/04/2022 12:06 am, TMS320 wrote:
>>> On 01/04/2022 10:12, JNugent wrote:
>>>> On 31/03/2022 10:19 pm, TMS320 wrote:
>>>>> On 31/03/2022 14:29, JNugent wrote:
>>>>>> On 31/03/2022 01:24 pm, TMS320 wrote:
>>>>>>> On 30/03/2022 11:55, JNugent wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 30/03/2022 08:56 am, TMS320 wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 28/03/2022 18:13, JNugent wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 28/03/2022 05:04 pm, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>>>>>> The driver's hesitation is not suggestive of being oblivious. I
>>>>>>> have found this type of hesitation is a characteristic of the
>>>>>>> driver realising something is approaching but being unsure of
>>>>>>> what it is and how much time/space is available.
>
>>>>>> A mistake does not automatically mean connotations of
>>>>>> "obliviousness". The sort of error made by that driver is probably
>>>>>> more connected with mistaking the speed of the approaching vehicle.
>
>>>>> Are you agreeing or arguing?
>
>>>> You sad the drver was "oblivious" of the cyclist.
>
>>> Eh? What does the word 'not' imply?
>>
>> That's a fair question. I should have used the same word. But it
>> doesn't actually make any difference to the point. The driver mistook
>> the speed of the cycle. It seems we agree on that.
>
> Oblivious is the word some people used. I don't agree. There is a
> practical difference between being hesitant and oblivious.

More than a practical one, but I agree.
>
>>> <...>
>
>>>>>>> As well as the reason above, a driver does not tend to look along
>>>>>>> the kerb so moving out puts the cyclist where the driver is
>>>>>>> looking. The sideways movement also breaks up the background
>>>>>>> to offer better clues to range and speed. Are you trying to
>>>>>>> suggest that a cyclists should not make themselves visible?
>
>>>>>> Why would I suggest that? Why do you even ask it?
>
>>>>> Nugent SOP of responding to a question with a question.
>
>>>> Your question materialises out of nothing that has been said.
>
>>> Ummm. It arises from "...moving out puts the cyclist where the driver is
>>> looking..."
>
>> I didn't claim it. You did.
>
> I know I wrote it.

<shrug>
>
>>>> It is a silly question and I'm not going to dignify it with an
>>>> answer. You raised a non-issue by asking it.
>
>>> Translation. "I don't like the question".
>
>> I don't like any irrelevant questions used as a red herring.
>> And that's what it was.
>
> You took issue over why a cyclist did something and I told you why it is
> done. It is relevant.

Obviously, there has to be *some* reason why the fairy-cyclist behaved
so stupidly in not only failing to stop or avoid the danger, but
continued to unnecessarily put himself back on a collision course by
crossing to the wrong side of the road (the side the motor vehicle was
heading for).

But is doesn't have to be a good reason, and it wasn't.

Did he expect to eventually pass between the car and the opposite kerb?

> If you keep insisting this move is wrong, the only possibility is that
> you don't want cyclists to make themselves visible.
>
Rubbish. Being visible is nothing to do with it. The fairy-cyclist kept
moving right so as to be on a collision course with the other vehicle.
There was absolutely no need for that and "visibility" is another of
your red herrings.

>>> <...>

>>>>>> Rubbish. I have been driving for fifty years this year and have
>>>>>> never come close to such a position.
>
>>>>> 50 years of stopping the moment someone goes "boo!" Oh well.
>
>>>> You can be childish if you like. I can't stop you.
>
>>> You can believe you have wisdom that nobody else has. I can't stop you.

Everyone with commons sense does everything that can be done to avoid
impending collisions. Only red-mist fairy-cyclists (and perhaps a few
other road-users) don't.

>> Don't be stupid. You know full well that stopping when heading towards
>> a collision is the best defence. Only a half-wit hurtles onward,
>> trying to avoid a collision by running straight into the path of the
>> approaching vehicle.
>
> A very simple fact still escapes you. There was no collision.

The chances of one were not diminished by the stupid fairy-cyclist
continuously changing course so as to intersect with the other vehicle's
path.

>>> <...>
>
>>>>>> It might be a human being, don't forget.
>
>>>>> Yes, in my time, I have noticed that human beings sometimes wander
>>>>>  about in the road. Mainly in front of bicycles, less so in front
>>>>> of motor vehicles.
>
>>>> In either case, the thing to do ("ask Alliston") is *stop*.
>
>>> In either case, the thing to do is take an action that avoids a
>>> collision, while maintaining progress where possible.
>
>> "Maintaining progress" is a distant second priority, not fit to be
>> mentioned in the same breath as the concept of being safe.
>
> The whole point of using the roads is to make progress from one place to
> another. If that is not your priority, then you should stay at home.

It is not my top priority and neither should it be yours (though you
state that it is).

The top priority is avoiding collisions and staying safe. Making
progress is a lesser priority. For sane people at least.

> Danger is always present and the technique is to manage it to avoid it
> being converted to physical harm.
>
> In principle, it is no different to knowing what parts of open, live
> electrical equipment will or won't hurt. Your idea is equivalent to a
> blanket instruction not to touch anything.
>
>> Ask Alliston.
>
> Talk about an irrelevance...

Someone else who - like you, as you admit - prioritised "making
progress" on his fairy-cycle over safety (especially the safety of mere
pedestrians).

Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute... only to be told it was his fault

<t2m65q$br3$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=7946&group=uk.rec.cycling#7946

 copy link   Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: dr6...@gmail.com (TMS320)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Subject: Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute...
only to be told it was his fault
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2022 09:08:26 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 97
Message-ID: <t2m65q$br3$1@dont-email.me>
References: <85d9ea47-33ed-4511-b65a-5558db8514a4n@googlegroups.com>
<jae8ltF576jU1@mid.individual.net> <t212f7$8po$1@dont-email.me>
<jair8vF1fvkU1@mid.individual.net> <t246id$lij$1@dont-email.me>
<jalomhFilb9U1@mid.individual.net> <t255sf$q1u$1@dont-email.me>
<jantvdFps0U1@mid.individual.net> <t2aku1$6rm$1@dont-email.me>
<jas3oaFpflkU1@mid.individual.net> <t2iisf$hb9$1@dont-email.me>
<jb5f8rFjf44U1@mid.individual.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2022 08:08:26 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="bddde397912539fcf7cac94be497aba4";
logging-data="12131"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19iPAxCAXVohksUU+tipb5x"
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/91.7.0
Cancel-Lock: sha1:oLeB+oD4ydTCFJD4CUnyIoKiXzA=
In-Reply-To: <jb5f8rFjf44U1@mid.individual.net>
Content-Language: en-GB
 by: TMS320 - Thu, 7 Apr 2022 08:08 UTC

On 06/04/2022 13:27, JNugent wrote:
> On 06/04/2022 12:20 am, TMS320 wrote:
>> On 03/04/2022 00:15, JNugent wrote:
>>> On 03/04/2022 12:06 am, TMS320 wrote:

<...>
>>
>>> I don't like any irrelevant questions used as a red herring. And
>>> that's what it was.
>>
>> You took issue over why a cyclist did something and I told you why
>> it is done. It is relevant.
>
> Obviously, there has to be *some* reason why the cyclist behaved so
> stupidly in not only failing to stop or avoid the danger, but
> continued to unnecessarily put himself back on a collision course by
> crossing to the wrong side of the road (the side the motor vehicle
> was heading for).

A video can be viewed many times over yet you consistently show poor
powers of observation. This is not an isolated example. You only get one
chance when driving so please hand in your licence before you harm someone.

> But is doesn't have to be a good reason, and it wasn't.
>
> Did he expect to eventually pass between the car and the opposite
> kerb?
>
>> If you keep insisting this move is wrong, the only possibility is
>> that you don't want cyclists to make themselves visible.
>>
> Rubbish. Being visible is nothing to do with it. The cyclist kept
> moving right so as to be on a collision course with the other
> vehicle. There was absolutely no need for that and "visibility" is
> another of your red herrings.

See above.

>>> Don't be stupid. You know full well that stopping when heading
>>> towards a collision is the best defence. Only a half-wit hurtles
>>> onward, trying to avoid a collision by running straight into the
>>> path of the approaching vehicle.
>>
>> A very simple fact still escapes you. There was no collision.
>
> The chances of one were not diminished

If the chance of a collision was greater than zero and the cyclist did
nothing to diminish it, there would have been a collision.

A very simple fact still escapes you. There was no collision.

> by the stupid cyclist continuously changing course so as to intersect
> with the other vehicle's path.

A stupid urc poster continuously swerves in order to exaggerate.

<...>
>>
>>>> In either case, the thing to do is take an action that avoids
>>>> a collision, while maintaining progress where possible.
>>
>>> "Maintaining progress" is a distant second priority, not fit to
>>> be mentioned in the same breath as the concept of being safe.
>>
>> The whole point of using the roads is to make progress from one
>> place to another. If that is not your priority, then you should
>> stay at home.
>
> It is not my top priority

Of course it is. When you travel you have made the decision that the
journey to a different place brings benefits or advantages to you that
are greater than the disadvantages of the expense, hassle and danger
involved in getting there.

> and neither should it be yours (though you state that it is).
>
> The top priority is avoiding collisions and staying safe. Making
> progress is a lesser priority. For sane people at least.

The priority is to reach one's destination. To achieve this, making
progress *and* avoiding collisions are both essential.

You keep whittering on about how "stopping" is the only method of
avoiding collisions. A pity you don't apply this principle before ypu
tie yourself in knots while posting to urc.

>>> Ask Alliston.
>>
>> Talk about an irrelevance...
>
> Someone else who - like you, as you admit - prioritised "making
> progress" on his cycle over safety (especially the safety of mere
> pedestrians).

He failed to make progress.

Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute... only to be told it was his fault

<jb89d1F5ji2U1@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=7971&group=uk.rec.cycling#7971

 copy link   Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!news.szaf.org!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: jennings...@fastmail.fm (JNugent)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Subject: Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute...
only to be told it was his fault
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2022 15:05:21 +0100
Organization: Home User
Lines: 132
Message-ID: <jb89d1F5ji2U1@mid.individual.net>
References: <85d9ea47-33ed-4511-b65a-5558db8514a4n@googlegroups.com>
<jae8ltF576jU1@mid.individual.net> <t212f7$8po$1@dont-email.me>
<jair8vF1fvkU1@mid.individual.net> <t246id$lij$1@dont-email.me>
<jalomhFilb9U1@mid.individual.net> <t255sf$q1u$1@dont-email.me>
<jantvdFps0U1@mid.individual.net> <t2aku1$6rm$1@dont-email.me>
<jas3oaFpflkU1@mid.individual.net> <t2iisf$hb9$1@dont-email.me>
<jb5f8rFjf44U1@mid.individual.net> <t2m65q$br3$1@dont-email.me>
Reply-To: jennings&co@fastmail.fm
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Trace: individual.net 0cCLDVw7MVN04bEmW8ZGRw5La9pzFIO923yzXlzEfeQb/W6/tb
Cancel-Lock: sha1:kWTJCjQm9l2rOYt/4/U7zOcP54s=
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/60.6.1
In-Reply-To: <t2m65q$br3$1@dont-email.me>
Content-Language: en-GB
X-Antivirus: AVG (VPS 220406-4, 4/6/2022), Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
 by: JNugent - Thu, 7 Apr 2022 14:05 UTC

On 07/04/2022 09:08 am, TMS320 wrote:

> On 06/04/2022 13:27, JNugent wrote:
>> On 06/04/2022 12:20 am, TMS320 wrote:
>>> On 03/04/2022 00:15, JNugent wrote:
>>>> On 03/04/2022 12:06 am, TMS320 wrote:
>
> <...>
>>>
>>>> I don't like any irrelevant questions used as a red herring. And
>>>> that's what it was.
>>>
>>> You took issue over why a cyclist did something and I told you why it
>>> is done. It is relevant.
>>
>> Obviously, there has to be *some* reason why the cyclist behaved so
>> stupidly in not only failing to stop or avoid the danger, but
>> continued to unnecessarily put himself back on a collision course by
>>  crossing to the wrong side of the road (the side the motor vehicle
>> was heading for).
>
> A video can be viewed many times over yet you consistently show poor
> powers of observation. This is not an isolated example. You only get one
> chance when driving so please hand in your licence before you harm someone.

You bare attempting a classic diversion.

>> But is doesn't have to be a good reason, and it wasn't.
>> Did he expect to eventually pass between the car and the opposite kerb?
>>
>>> If you keep insisting this move is wrong, the only possibility is
>>> that you don't want cyclists to make themselves visible.

I'd far rather they were safe and less visible than more visible and in
immediate danger.

Wouldn't you?

No... perhaps you wouldn't... on some misguided "principle".
>
>> Rubbish. Being visible is nothing to do with it. The cyclist kept
>> moving right so as to be on a collision course with the other vehicle.
>> There was absolutely no need for that and "visibility" is another of
>> your red herrings.
>
> See above.

Your attempt at diversion, you mean?

>>>> Don't be stupid. You know full well that stopping when heading
>>>> towards a collision is the best defence. Only a half-wit hurtles
>>>> onward, trying to avoid a collision by running straight into the
>>>> path of the approaching vehicle.
>
>>> A very simple fact still escapes you. There was no collision.
>
>> The chances of one were not diminished
>
> If the chance of a collision was greater than zero and the cyclist did
> nothing to diminish it, there would have been a collision.

Yet more rubbish.

Despite the irresponsible behaviour of the fairy-cyclist, there was a
responsible adult to hand.
>
> A very simple fact still escapes you. There was no collision.

No thanks to the veering fairy-cyclist.

>> by the stupid cyclist continuously changing course so as to intersect
>> with the other vehicle's path.
>
> A stupid urc poster continuously swerves in order to exaggerate.

A straightforward description. The fairy-cyclist continuously swerved
into the car's path.

> <...>
>
>>>>> In either case, the thing to do is take an action that avoids
>>>>> a collision, while maintaining progress where possible.
>>>
>>>> "Maintaining progress" is a distant second priority, not fit to be
>>>> mentioned in the same breath as the concept of being safe.
>>>
>>> The whole point of using the roads is to make progress from one place
>>> to another. If that is not your priority, then you should stay at home.
>
>> It is not my top priority
>
> Of course it is. When you travel you have made the decision that the
> journey to a different place brings benefits or advantages to you that
> are greater than the disadvantages of the expense, hassle and danger
> involved in getting there.

It is never a priority of mine to steer a course which makes a collision
more, rather than less, likely.

It seems though, that fairy-cyclists have different priorities.

>> and neither should it be yours (though you state that it is).
>> The top priority is avoiding collisions and staying safe. Making
>> progress is a lesser priority. For sane people at least.
>
> The priority is to reach one's destination. To achieve this, making
> progress *and* avoiding collisions are both essential.

They can't often be done at the same time.

> You keep whittering on about how "stopping" is the only method of
> avoiding collisions. A pity you don't apply this principle before ypu
> tie yourself in knots while posting to urc.

That's gibberish.

Gibberish from TMS320.

Who'dathortit?

>>>> Ask Alliston.
>
>>> Talk about an irrelevance...
>
>> Someone else who - like you, as you admit - prioritised "making
>> progress" on his cycle over safety (especially the safety of mere
>> pedestrians).
>
> He failed to make progress.

He progressed very well with the only thing we know he really wanted to
do, which was to hit that innocent pedestrian.

Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute... only to be told it was his fault

<t2pco5$sik$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=8017&group=uk.rec.cycling#8017

 copy link   Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: dr6...@gmail.com (TMS320)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Subject: Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute...
only to be told it was his fault
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2022 14:19:00 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 45
Message-ID: <t2pco5$sik$1@dont-email.me>
References: <85d9ea47-33ed-4511-b65a-5558db8514a4n@googlegroups.com>
<jae8ltF576jU1@mid.individual.net> <t212f7$8po$1@dont-email.me>
<jair8vF1fvkU1@mid.individual.net> <t246id$lij$1@dont-email.me>
<jalomhFilb9U1@mid.individual.net> <t255sf$q1u$1@dont-email.me>
<jantvdFps0U1@mid.individual.net> <t2aku1$6rm$1@dont-email.me>
<jas3oaFpflkU1@mid.individual.net> <t2iisf$hb9$1@dont-email.me>
<jb5f8rFjf44U1@mid.individual.net> <t2m65q$br3$1@dont-email.me>
<jb89d1F5ji2U1@mid.individual.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2022 13:19:01 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="b32111bb59c3f2a73ac807e39947b1b3";
logging-data="29268"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/FeSKeTQ+0L2MO15o7PHG8"
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/91.7.0
Cancel-Lock: sha1:8VbfwPTt4tQ4EPkc3MF4KW4Sn8M=
In-Reply-To: <jb89d1F5ji2U1@mid.individual.net>
Content-Language: en-GB
 by: TMS320 - Fri, 8 Apr 2022 13:19 UTC

On 07/04/2022 15:05, JNugent wrote:
> On 07/04/2022 09:08 am, TMS320 wrote:
>> On 06/04/2022 13:27, JNugent wrote:
>>> On 06/04/2022 12:20 am, TMS320 wrote:
>>>> On 03/04/2022 00:15, JNugent wrote:
>>
>> A video can be viewed many times over yet you consistently show poor
>> powers of observation. This is not an isolated example. You only get
>> one chance when driving so please hand in your licence before you harm
>> someone.
>
> You bare attempting a classic diversion.

Hardly, when your description of what is clear to see is completely and
utterly wrong.

You have not noticed that the road is marked out with 4 lanes; that he
was nowhere near to being on the wrong side of the road; that when he
made and completed his move the sightline along the road directly ahead
was completely clear...

>>> The cyclist kept moving right...

....and that he did not "keep moving right" - he remained parallel to the
line - and the distant perspective did not change.

After moving right, about 2 seconds elapsed before there was any
possibility of a collision. He braked from the moment the car
interrupted his sightline.

>>>>> Ask Alliston.
>>
>>>> Talk about an irrelevance...
>>
>>> Someone else who - like you, as you admit - prioritised "making
>>> progress" on his cycle over safety (especially the safety of mere
>>> pedestrians).
>>
>> He failed to make progress.
>
> He progressed very well with the only thing we know he really wanted to
> do, which was to hit that innocent pedestrian.

"he really wanted to..."? You really are a stupid person.

Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute... only to be told it was his fault

<jbaso7FktlnU1@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=8018&group=uk.rec.cycling#8018

 copy link   Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.goja.nl.eu.org!3.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: jennings...@fastmail.fm (JNugent)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Subject: Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute...
only to be told it was his fault
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2022 14:47:51 +0100
Organization: Home User
Lines: 72
Message-ID: <jbaso7FktlnU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <85d9ea47-33ed-4511-b65a-5558db8514a4n@googlegroups.com>
<jae8ltF576jU1@mid.individual.net> <t212f7$8po$1@dont-email.me>
<jair8vF1fvkU1@mid.individual.net> <t246id$lij$1@dont-email.me>
<jalomhFilb9U1@mid.individual.net> <t255sf$q1u$1@dont-email.me>
<jantvdFps0U1@mid.individual.net> <t2aku1$6rm$1@dont-email.me>
<jas3oaFpflkU1@mid.individual.net> <t2iisf$hb9$1@dont-email.me>
<jb5f8rFjf44U1@mid.individual.net> <t2m65q$br3$1@dont-email.me>
<jb89d1F5ji2U1@mid.individual.net> <t2pco5$sik$1@dont-email.me>
Reply-To: jennings&co@fastmail.fm
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Trace: individual.net nTkNR/gmtZKXn5h7QurF5AyeS/4FDDZldS3CyFonY02zO0txvu
Cancel-Lock: sha1:SCR+vX7YFFJbheBOAfK8GhIcEnc=
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/60.6.1
In-Reply-To: <t2pco5$sik$1@dont-email.me>
Content-Language: en-GB
X-Antivirus: AVG (VPS 220408-0, 4/8/2022), Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
 by: JNugent - Fri, 8 Apr 2022 13:47 UTC

On 08/04/2022 02:19 pm, TMS320 wrote:

> On 07/04/2022 15:05, JNugent wrote:
>> On 07/04/2022 09:08 am, TMS320 wrote:
>>> On 06/04/2022 13:27, JNugent wrote:
>>>> On 06/04/2022 12:20 am, TMS320 wrote:
>>>>> On 03/04/2022 00:15, JNugent wrote:
>
>>> A video can be viewed many times over yet you consistently show poor
>>> powers of observation. This is not an isolated example. You only get
>>> one chance when driving so please hand in your licence before you
>>> harm someone.
>
>> You bare attempting a classic diversion.
>
> Hardly, when your description of what is clear to see is completely and
> utterly wrong.

Oh please... you indicate difficulties with the meaning of very ordinary
words (see below).
>
> You have not noticed that the road is marked out with 4 lanes; that he
> was nowhere near to being on the wrong side of the road; that when he
> made and completed his move the sightline along the road directly ahead
> was completely clear...
>
>>>> The cyclist kept moving right...

He pulled into the car's path when he wasn't in it to start with (once
the car had cleared the Give Way line). Had he kept his original line
(and perhaps slowed a bit rather then trying to be "clever" by veering
around the front of the car in order to "make Progress" [TM: TMS320]),
their paths would not have crossed by the time he got to the junction.

> ...and that he did not "keep moving right" - he remained parallel to the
> line - and the distant perspective did not change.

Total rubbish. He kept veering to his right.

You don't seem to understand the meaning of the word "parallel".

He described a path divergent from the line of the kerb and any of the
lanes - IOW, at an angle from them. That's the whole point: he was
trying to "miss" the car by riding straight at it and altering his
course so as to remain on a collision course with the car.

Is that what you regard as "clever"?

> After moving right, about 2 seconds elapsed before there was any
> possibility of a collision. He braked from the moment the car
> interrupted his sightline.

>>>>>> Ask Alliston.
>
>>>>> Talk about an irrelevance...
>
>>>> Someone else who - like you, as you admit - prioritised "making
>>>> progress" on his cycle over safety (especially the safety of mere
>>>> pedestrians).
>
>>> He failed to make progress.
>
>> He progressed very well with the only thing we know he really wanted
>> to do, which was to hit that innocent pedestrian.
>
> "he really wanted to..."? You really are a stupid person.

If Alliston didn't want to hit that poor pedestrian, he went a very
funny about trying to avoid her.

He fairy-cycled straight into her on a fairy-bike not even fitted with
brakes (so much thought and regard had he for other road-users).

Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute... only to be told it was his fault

<t2pl76$3mb$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=8025&group=uk.rec.cycling#8025

 copy link   Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: dr6...@gmail.com (TMS320)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Subject: Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute...
only to be told it was his fault
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2022 16:43:33 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 59
Message-ID: <t2pl76$3mb$1@dont-email.me>
References: <85d9ea47-33ed-4511-b65a-5558db8514a4n@googlegroups.com>
<jae8ltF576jU1@mid.individual.net> <t212f7$8po$1@dont-email.me>
<jair8vF1fvkU1@mid.individual.net> <t246id$lij$1@dont-email.me>
<jalomhFilb9U1@mid.individual.net> <t255sf$q1u$1@dont-email.me>
<jantvdFps0U1@mid.individual.net> <t2aku1$6rm$1@dont-email.me>
<jas3oaFpflkU1@mid.individual.net> <t2iisf$hb9$1@dont-email.me>
<jb5f8rFjf44U1@mid.individual.net> <t2m65q$br3$1@dont-email.me>
<jb89d1F5ji2U1@mid.individual.net> <t2pco5$sik$1@dont-email.me>
<jbaso7FktlnU1@mid.individual.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2022 15:43:34 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="b32111bb59c3f2a73ac807e39947b1b3";
logging-data="3787"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/QyyHUR0AEJLv80GPPd/7P"
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/91.7.0
Cancel-Lock: sha1:SyYJEfSgmvft8MxQ5OffL9KTU5o=
In-Reply-To: <jbaso7FktlnU1@mid.individual.net>
Content-Language: en-GB
 by: TMS320 - Fri, 8 Apr 2022 15:43 UTC

On 08/04/2022 14:47, JNugent wrote:
> On 08/04/2022 02:19 pm, TMS320 wrote:
>> On 07/04/2022 15:05, JNugent wrote:
>>> On 07/04/2022 09:08 am, TMS320 wrote:
>>>> On 06/04/2022 13:27, JNugent wrote:
>>>>> On 06/04/2022 12:20 am, TMS320 wrote:
>>>>>> On 03/04/2022 00:15, JNugent wrote:
>>
>>>> A video can be viewed many times over yet you consistently show
>>>> poor powers of observation. This is not an isolated example.
>>>> You only get one chance when driving so please hand in your
>>>> licence before you harm someone.
>>
>>> You bare attempting a classic diversion.
>>
>> Hardly, when your description of what is clear to see is completely
>> and utterly wrong.
>
> Oh please... you indicate difficulties with the meaning of very
> ordinary words (see below).
>
>> You have not noticed that the road is marked out with 4 lanes; that
>> he was nowhere near to being on the wrong side of the road; that
>> when he made and completed his move the sightline along the road
>> directly ahead was completely clear...
>>
>>>>> The cyclist kept moving right...
>
> He pulled into the car's path when he wasn't in it to start with
> (once the car had cleared the Give Way line). Had he kept his
> original line (and perhaps slowed a bit rather then trying to be
> "clever" by veering around the front of the car in order to "make
> Progress" [TM: TMS320]), their paths would not have crossed by the
> time he got to the junction.

Well, it's progress that you have stopped declaring that is a 2
lane road. A cyclist is allowed to use lane 2 of 2.

>> ...and that he did not "keep moving right" - he remained parallel
>> to the line - and the distant perspective did not change.
>
> Total rubbish. He kept veering to his right.
>
> You don't seem to understand the meaning of the word "parallel".

Then you are declaring that that perspectives and sightlines could not
have been what they were.

You are lying.

> He described a path divergent from the line of the kerb and any of
> the lanes - IOW, at an angle from them. That's the whole point: he
> was trying to "miss" the car by riding straight at it and altering
> his course so as to remain on a collision course with the car. >
> Is that what you regard as "clever"?

I think an appropriate word for you is "bloviator".

(Irrespective of the precise dictionary definition.)

Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute... only to be told it was his fault

<jbb4olFmcquU1@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=8026&group=uk.rec.cycling#8026

 copy link   Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.goja.nl.eu.org!3.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: jennings...@fastmail.fm (JNugent)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Subject: Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute...
only to be told it was his fault
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2022 17:04:37 +0100
Organization: Home User
Lines: 65
Message-ID: <jbb4olFmcquU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <85d9ea47-33ed-4511-b65a-5558db8514a4n@googlegroups.com>
<jae8ltF576jU1@mid.individual.net> <t212f7$8po$1@dont-email.me>
<jair8vF1fvkU1@mid.individual.net> <t246id$lij$1@dont-email.me>
<jalomhFilb9U1@mid.individual.net> <t255sf$q1u$1@dont-email.me>
<jantvdFps0U1@mid.individual.net> <t2aku1$6rm$1@dont-email.me>
<jas3oaFpflkU1@mid.individual.net> <t2iisf$hb9$1@dont-email.me>
<jb5f8rFjf44U1@mid.individual.net> <t2m65q$br3$1@dont-email.me>
<jb89d1F5ji2U1@mid.individual.net> <t2pco5$sik$1@dont-email.me>
<jbaso7FktlnU1@mid.individual.net> <t2pl76$3mb$1@dont-email.me>
Reply-To: jennings&co@fastmail.fm
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Trace: individual.net 7mbA910CQJsh6HF7gX2W3gc4QJG1IXu0hQOTzmyZuL42JSqjxR
Cancel-Lock: sha1:OLNfopZjMg2q5UVjMvO7cTdU3m0=
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/60.6.1
In-Reply-To: <t2pl76$3mb$1@dont-email.me>
Content-Language: en-GB
X-Antivirus: AVG (VPS 220408-0, 4/8/2022), Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
 by: JNugent - Fri, 8 Apr 2022 16:04 UTC

On 08/04/2022 04:43 pm, TMS320 wrote:
> On 08/04/2022 14:47, JNugent wrote:
>> On 08/04/2022 02:19 pm, TMS320 wrote:
>>> On 07/04/2022 15:05, JNugent wrote:
>>>> On 07/04/2022 09:08 am, TMS320 wrote:
>>>>> On 06/04/2022 13:27, JNugent wrote:
>>>>>> On 06/04/2022 12:20 am, TMS320 wrote:
>>>>>>> On 03/04/2022 00:15, JNugent wrote:
>>>
>>>>> A video can be viewed many times over yet you consistently show
>>>>> poor powers of observation. This is not an isolated example.
>>>>> You only get one chance when driving so please hand in your
>>>>> licence before you harm someone.
>>>
>>>> You bare attempting a classic diversion.
>>>
>>> Hardly, when your description of what is clear to see is completely
>>>  and utterly wrong.
>>
>> Oh please... you indicate difficulties with the meaning of very
>> ordinary words (see below).
> >
>>> You have not noticed that the road is marked out with 4 lanes; that
>>> he was nowhere near to being on the wrong side of the road; that
>>> when he made and completed his move the sightline along the road
>>> directly ahead was completely clear...
>>>
>>>>>> The cyclist kept moving right...
>>
>> He pulled into the car's path when he wasn't in it to start with
>> (once the car had cleared the Give Way line). Had he kept his
>> original line (and perhaps slowed a bit rather then trying to be
>> "clever" by veering around the front of the car in order to "make
>> Progress" [TM: TMS320]), their paths would not have crossed by the
>> time he got to the junction.
>
> Well, it's progress that you have stopped declaring that is a 2
> lane road. A cyclist is allowed to use lane 2 of 2.
>
>>> ...and that he did not "keep moving right" - he remained parallel
>>> to the line - and the distant perspective did not change.
>>
>> Total rubbish. He kept veering to his right.
>>
>> You don't seem to understand the meaning of the word "parallel".
>
> Then you are declaring that that perspectives and sightlines could not
> have been what they were.
>
> You are lying.
>
>> He described a path divergent from the line of the kerb and any of
>> the lanes - IOW, at an angle from them. That's the whole point: he
>> was trying to "miss" the car by riding straight at it and altering
>> his course so as to remain on a collision course with the car. >
>> Is that what you regard as "clever"?
>
> I think an appropriate word for you is "bloviator".
>
> (Irrespective of the precise dictionary definition.)

No counter-argument?

Just playground stuff. How unusual.

Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute... only to be told it was his fault

<t2pqp0$i3v$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=8043&group=uk.rec.cycling#8043

 copy link   Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: dr6...@gmail.com (TMS320)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Subject: Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute...
only to be told it was his fault
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2022 18:18:23 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 74
Message-ID: <t2pqp0$i3v$1@dont-email.me>
References: <85d9ea47-33ed-4511-b65a-5558db8514a4n@googlegroups.com>
<jae8ltF576jU1@mid.individual.net> <t212f7$8po$1@dont-email.me>
<jair8vF1fvkU1@mid.individual.net> <t246id$lij$1@dont-email.me>
<jalomhFilb9U1@mid.individual.net> <t255sf$q1u$1@dont-email.me>
<jantvdFps0U1@mid.individual.net> <t2aku1$6rm$1@dont-email.me>
<jas3oaFpflkU1@mid.individual.net> <t2iisf$hb9$1@dont-email.me>
<jb5f8rFjf44U1@mid.individual.net> <t2m65q$br3$1@dont-email.me>
<jb89d1F5ji2U1@mid.individual.net> <t2pco5$sik$1@dont-email.me>
<jbaso7FktlnU1@mid.individual.net> <t2pl76$3mb$1@dont-email.me>
<jbb4olFmcquU1@mid.individual.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2022 17:18:24 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="b32111bb59c3f2a73ac807e39947b1b3";
logging-data="18559"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+PAdNp+ADx+4+31o8ysFqd"
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/91.7.0
Cancel-Lock: sha1:jIjnA768uqXaB6oPmTQZrK7KVR0=
In-Reply-To: <jbb4olFmcquU1@mid.individual.net>
Content-Language: en-GB
 by: TMS320 - Fri, 8 Apr 2022 17:18 UTC

On 08/04/2022 17:04, JNugent wrote:
> On 08/04/2022 04:43 pm, TMS320 wrote:
>> On 08/04/2022 14:47, JNugent wrote:
>>> On 08/04/2022 02:19 pm, TMS320 wrote:
>>>> On 07/04/2022 15:05, JNugent wrote:
>>>>> On 07/04/2022 09:08 am, TMS320 wrote:
>>>>>> On 06/04/2022 13:27, JNugent wrote:
>>>>>>> On 06/04/2022 12:20 am, TMS320 wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 03/04/2022 00:15, JNugent wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> A video can be viewed many times over yet you consistently
>>>>>> show poor powers of observation. This is not an isolated
>>>>>> example. You only get one chance when driving so please
>>>>>> hand in your licence before you harm someone.
>>>>
>>>>> You bare attempting a classic diversion.
>>>>
>>>> Hardly, when your description of what is clear to see is
>>>> completely and utterly wrong.
>>>
>>> Oh please... you indicate difficulties with the meaning of very
>>> ordinary words (see below).
>>>
>>>> You have not noticed that the road is marked out with 4 lanes;
>>>> that he was nowhere near to being on the wrong side of the
>>>> road; that when he made and completed his move the sightline
>>>> along the road directly ahead was completely clear...
>>>>
>>>>>>> The cyclist kept moving right...
>>>
>>> He pulled into the car's path when he wasn't in it to start with
>>> (once the car had cleared the Give Way line). Had he kept his
>>> original line (and perhaps slowed a bit rather then trying to be
>>> "clever" by veering around the front of the car in order to
>>> "make Progress" [TM: TMS320]), their paths would not have
>>> crossed by the time he got to the junction.
>>
>> Well, it's progress that you have stopped declaring that is a 2
>> lane road. A cyclist is allowed to use lane 2 of 2.
>>
>>>> ...and that he did not "keep moving right" - he remained
>>>> parallel to the line - and the distant perspective did not
>>>> change.
>>>
>>> Total rubbish. He kept veering to his right.
>>>
>>> You don't seem to understand the meaning of the word "parallel".
>>
>> Then you are declaring that that perspectives and sightlines could
>> not have been what they were.
>>
>> You are lying.
>>
>>> He described a path divergent from the line of the kerb and any
>>> of the lanes - IOW, at an angle from them. That's the whole
>>> point: he was trying to "miss" the car by riding straight at it
>>> and altering his course so as to remain on a collision course
>>> with the car. > Is that what you regard as "clever"?
>>
>> I think an appropriate word for you is "bloviator".
>>
>> (Irrespective of the precise dictionary definition.)
>
> No counter-argument?

Clearly, sightlines, perspectives and timing mean nothing to you. You
took a very cursory look of the video, added a large dose of prejudice,
a big slug of "I have been driving long enough to get the hat and
gloves" and came up with "he veered all over the place and didn't
brake.". Close mind. Argue that black is white.

> Just playground stuff. How unusual.

What other option is there?

Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute... only to be told it was his fault

<jbbd19Fnu9qU1@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=8048&group=uk.rec.cycling#8048

 copy link   Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!news.szaf.org!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: jennings...@fastmail.fm (JNugent)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Subject: Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute...
only to be told it was his fault
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2022 19:25:45 +0100
Organization: Home User
Lines: 96
Message-ID: <jbbd19Fnu9qU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <85d9ea47-33ed-4511-b65a-5558db8514a4n@googlegroups.com>
<jae8ltF576jU1@mid.individual.net> <t212f7$8po$1@dont-email.me>
<jair8vF1fvkU1@mid.individual.net> <t246id$lij$1@dont-email.me>
<jalomhFilb9U1@mid.individual.net> <t255sf$q1u$1@dont-email.me>
<jantvdFps0U1@mid.individual.net> <t2aku1$6rm$1@dont-email.me>
<jas3oaFpflkU1@mid.individual.net> <t2iisf$hb9$1@dont-email.me>
<jb5f8rFjf44U1@mid.individual.net> <t2m65q$br3$1@dont-email.me>
<jb89d1F5ji2U1@mid.individual.net> <t2pco5$sik$1@dont-email.me>
<jbaso7FktlnU1@mid.individual.net> <t2pl76$3mb$1@dont-email.me>
<jbb4olFmcquU1@mid.individual.net> <t2pqp0$i3v$1@dont-email.me>
Reply-To: jennings&co@fastmail.fm
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Trace: individual.net Pu3ZD9VZoSKgAI6Ocu/1SA0vrIBB4UPdZyMQdphU7EsV8nkQP0
Cancel-Lock: sha1:cq+FD+YpDZ3h5FVQ2y7JMsaat84=
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/60.6.1
In-Reply-To: <t2pqp0$i3v$1@dont-email.me>
Content-Language: en-GB
X-Antivirus: AVG (VPS 220408-0, 4/8/2022), Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
 by: JNugent - Fri, 8 Apr 2022 18:25 UTC

On 08/04/2022 06:18 pm, TMS320 wrote:
> On 08/04/2022 17:04, JNugent wrote:
>> On 08/04/2022 04:43 pm, TMS320 wrote:
>>> On 08/04/2022 14:47, JNugent wrote:
>>>> On 08/04/2022 02:19 pm, TMS320 wrote:
>>>>> On 07/04/2022 15:05, JNugent wrote:
>>>>>> On 07/04/2022 09:08 am, TMS320 wrote:
>>>>>>> On 06/04/2022 13:27, JNugent wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 06/04/2022 12:20 am, TMS320 wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 03/04/2022 00:15, JNugent wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> A video can be viewed many times over yet you consistently show
>>>>>>> poor powers of observation. This is not an isolated example. You
>>>>>>> only get one chance when driving so please hand in your licence
>>>>>>> before you harm someone.
>>>>>
>>>>>> You bare attempting a classic diversion.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hardly, when your description of what is clear to see is completely
>>>>> and utterly wrong.
>>>>
>>>> Oh please... you indicate difficulties with the meaning of very
>>>> ordinary words (see below).
>>>>
>>>>> You have not noticed that the road is marked out with 4 lanes; that
>>>>> he was nowhere near to being on the wrong side of the road; that
>>>>> when he made and completed his move the sightline along the road
>>>>> directly ahead was completely clear...
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The cyclist kept moving right...
>>>>
>>>> He pulled into the car's path when he wasn't in it to start with
>>>>  (once the car had cleared the Give Way line). Had he kept his
>>>> original line (and perhaps slowed a bit rather then trying to be
>>>>  "clever" by veering around the front of the car in order to "make
>>>> Progress" [TM: TMS320]), their paths would not have
>>>> crossed by the time he got to the junction.
>>>
>>> Well, it's progress that you have stopped declaring that is a 2 lane
>>> road. A cyclist is allowed to use lane 2 of 2.
>>>
>>>>> ...and that he did not "keep moving right" - he remained parallel
>>>>> to the line - and the distant perspective did not change.
>>>>
>>>> Total rubbish. He kept veering to his right.
>>>>
>>>> You don't seem to understand the meaning of the word "parallel".
>>>
>>> Then you are declaring that that perspectives and sightlines could
>>> not have been what they were.
>>>
>>> You are lying.
>>>
>>>> He described a path divergent from the line of the kerb and any of
>>>> the lanes - IOW, at an angle from them. That's the whole point: he
>>>> was trying to "miss" the car by riding straight at it and altering
>>>> his course so as to remain on a collision course with the car. > Is
>>>> that what you regard as "clever"?
>>>
>>> I think an appropriate word for you is "bloviator".
>>>
>>> (Irrespective of the precise dictionary definition.)
>>
>> No counter-argument?
>
> Clearly, sightlines, perspectives and timing mean nothing to you.

You blew yourself out of the water when you made the ridiculous claim
that the fairy-cyclist was moving parallel with the kerb when he moved
out from the gutter across at least two lanes.

Failed the geometry 101 section of the exam, did you?

> You
> took a very cursory look of the video, added a large dose of prejudice,
> a big slug of "I have been driving long enough to get the hat and
> gloves" and came up with "he veered all over the place and didn't
> brake.". Close mind. Argue that black is white.

He did veer all over the place when he should have stopped.

He didn't brake and he should have.

Them's facts. You don't like them.

>> Just playground stuff. How unusual.
>
> What other option is there?

For you?

Not much, I suppose.

You could try to act like an adult. You have tried it, but you usually
can't keep it up for very long.

Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute... only to be told it was his fault

<t30qcl$sfn$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=8118&group=uk.rec.cycling#8118

 copy link   Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: dr6...@gmail.com (TMS320)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Subject: Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute...
only to be told it was his fault
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2022 09:54:44 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <t30qcl$sfn$1@dont-email.me>
References: <85d9ea47-33ed-4511-b65a-5558db8514a4n@googlegroups.com>
<jae8ltF576jU1@mid.individual.net> <t212f7$8po$1@dont-email.me>
<jair8vF1fvkU1@mid.individual.net> <t246id$lij$1@dont-email.me>
<jalomhFilb9U1@mid.individual.net> <t255sf$q1u$1@dont-email.me>
<jantvdFps0U1@mid.individual.net> <t2aku1$6rm$1@dont-email.me>
<jas3oaFpflkU1@mid.individual.net> <t2iisf$hb9$1@dont-email.me>
<jb5f8rFjf44U1@mid.individual.net> <t2m65q$br3$1@dont-email.me>
<jb89d1F5ji2U1@mid.individual.net> <t2pco5$sik$1@dont-email.me>
<jbaso7FktlnU1@mid.individual.net> <t2pl76$3mb$1@dont-email.me>
<jbb4olFmcquU1@mid.individual.net> <t2pqp0$i3v$1@dont-email.me>
<jbbd19Fnu9qU1@mid.individual.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2022 08:54:45 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="a41445908b007f8de49179733bd6f8ad";
logging-data="29175"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19Whg9hbiEzG5HSqoRZau6c"
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/91.7.0
Cancel-Lock: sha1:momj0bEGfn72WO3stfMHbTy806A=
In-Reply-To: <jbbd19Fnu9qU1@mid.individual.net>
Content-Language: en-GB
 by: TMS320 - Mon, 11 Apr 2022 08:54 UTC

On 08/04/2022 19:25, JNugent wrote:
> On 08/04/2022 06:18 pm, TMS320 wrote:
>> On 08/04/2022 17:04, JNugent wrote:
>
> You blew yourself out of the water when you made the ridiculous
> claim that the fairy-cyclist was moving parallel with the kerb when
> he moved out from the gutter across at least two lanes.
> Failed the geometry 101 section of the exam, did you?
>
>>> Just playground stuff. How unusual.
>>
>> What other option is there?
>
> For you?
>
> Not much, I suppose.

Indeed there isn't for someone that only sees what he wants to see.

When I said that you should give up driving, it was a serious request,
not a playground one/

Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute... only to be told it was his fault

<jbib81F3b6gU1@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=8119&group=uk.rec.cycling#8119

 copy link   Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!news.uzoreto.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: jennings...@fastmail.fm (JNugent)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Subject: Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute...
only to be told it was his fault
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2022 10:38:09 +0100
Organization: Home User
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <jbib81F3b6gU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <85d9ea47-33ed-4511-b65a-5558db8514a4n@googlegroups.com>
<jae8ltF576jU1@mid.individual.net> <t212f7$8po$1@dont-email.me>
<jair8vF1fvkU1@mid.individual.net> <t246id$lij$1@dont-email.me>
<jalomhFilb9U1@mid.individual.net> <t255sf$q1u$1@dont-email.me>
<jantvdFps0U1@mid.individual.net> <t2aku1$6rm$1@dont-email.me>
<jas3oaFpflkU1@mid.individual.net> <t2iisf$hb9$1@dont-email.me>
<jb5f8rFjf44U1@mid.individual.net> <t2m65q$br3$1@dont-email.me>
<jb89d1F5ji2U1@mid.individual.net> <t2pco5$sik$1@dont-email.me>
<jbaso7FktlnU1@mid.individual.net> <t2pl76$3mb$1@dont-email.me>
<jbb4olFmcquU1@mid.individual.net> <t2pqp0$i3v$1@dont-email.me>
<jbbd19Fnu9qU1@mid.individual.net> <t30qcl$sfn$1@dont-email.me>
Reply-To: jennings&co@fastmail.fm
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Trace: individual.net UCGDrNcO94gEXrEvNgbtlQxcFaMeoKDVoNQlXwEtQ2kdaVgHrt
Cancel-Lock: sha1:5RuKopnQI6u/XQb747ulA81UrQM=
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/60.6.1
In-Reply-To: <t30qcl$sfn$1@dont-email.me>
Content-Language: en-GB
X-Antivirus: AVG (VPS 220411-0, 4/11/2022), Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
 by: JNugent - Mon, 11 Apr 2022 09:38 UTC

On 11/04/2022 09:54 am, TMS320 wrote:

> On 08/04/2022 19:25, JNugent wrote:
>> On 08/04/2022 06:18 pm, TMS320 wrote:
>>> On 08/04/2022 17:04, JNugent wrote:
>
>> You blew yourself out of the water when you made the ridiculous
>> claim that the fairy-cyclist was moving parallel with the kerb when
>> he moved out from the gutter across at least two lanes.
>> Failed the geometry 101 section of the exam, did you?
>
>>>> Just playground stuff. How unusual.
>
>>> What other option is there?
>
>> For you?
>> Not much, I suppose.
>
> Indeed there isn't for someone that only sees what he wants to see.

Such as insisting that two divergent lines are parallel?

> When I said that you should give up driving, it was a serious request,
> not a playground one/

I think you already knew how much your opinion is valued, Pythagoras.

Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute... only to be told it was his fault

<399190c6-e395-42c8-832e-447eb976ad0fn@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=8121&group=uk.rec.cycling#8121

 copy link   Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
X-Received: by 2002:ac8:7281:0:b0:2ee:ed60:777a with SMTP id v1-20020ac87281000000b002eeed60777amr1446930qto.197.1649671014243;
Mon, 11 Apr 2022 02:56:54 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a37:b1c7:0:b0:67d:6a17:cdcf with SMTP id
a190-20020a37b1c7000000b0067d6a17cdcfmr20053671qkf.402.1649671014119; Mon, 11
Apr 2022 02:56:54 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!news.misty.com!border2.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2022 02:56:53 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <t30qcl$sfn$1@dont-email.me>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=51.7.190.41; posting-account=C0YVfQoAAABh4p4NE_bEvMV8znsP81Ld
NNTP-Posting-Host: 51.7.190.41
References: <85d9ea47-33ed-4511-b65a-5558db8514a4n@googlegroups.com>
<jae8ltF576jU1@mid.individual.net> <t212f7$8po$1@dont-email.me>
<jair8vF1fvkU1@mid.individual.net> <t246id$lij$1@dont-email.me>
<jalomhFilb9U1@mid.individual.net> <t255sf$q1u$1@dont-email.me>
<jantvdFps0U1@mid.individual.net> <t2aku1$6rm$1@dont-email.me>
<jas3oaFpflkU1@mid.individual.net> <t2iisf$hb9$1@dont-email.me>
<jb5f8rFjf44U1@mid.individual.net> <t2m65q$br3$1@dont-email.me>
<jb89d1F5ji2U1@mid.individual.net> <t2pco5$sik$1@dont-email.me>
<jbaso7FktlnU1@mid.individual.net> <t2pl76$3mb$1@dont-email.me>
<jbb4olFmcquU1@mid.individual.net> <t2pqp0$i3v$1@dont-email.me>
<jbbd19Fnu9qU1@mid.individual.net> <t30qcl$sfn$1@dont-email.me>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <399190c6-e395-42c8-832e-447eb976ad0fn@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Jeremy Vine shares latest "nonsense" from his London commute...
only to be told it was his fault
From: swldxer1...@gmail.com (swldx...@gmail.com)
Injection-Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2022 09:56:54 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Lines: 6
 by: swldx...@gmail.com - Mon, 11 Apr 2022 09:56 UTC

On Monday, April 11, 2022 at 9:54:47 AM UTC+1, TMS320 wrote:
> When I said that you should give up driving, it was a serious request.

Who was that?

Pages:12
server_pubkey.txt

rocksolid light 0.9.7
clearnet tor