How does a smart meter measure gas?
I have a mechanical gas meter with rotating dials and I can't see how this can communicate with an electronc device. Predictably my suppplier can only regurgitate marketing nonsense and I can't find any technical info in the interweb.

--
Speedgazebo

Speedgazebo MOTP Speedgazebo MOTP #1 wrote:

> How does a smart meter measure gas?

Ultrasonic pulses

> I have a mechanical gas meter with rotating dials and I can't see how this
> can communicate with an electronc device. Predictably my suppplier can only
> regurgitate marketing nonsense and I can't find any technical info in the
> interweb.
Here's one being torn apart.

<https://youtu.be/vPc14g-b2YY>

On 22/01/2022 09:14, Andy Burns wrote:
> Speedgazebo  MOTP Speedgazebo MOTP #1 wrote:
>
>> How does a smart meter measure gas?
>
> Ultrasonic pulses
>
>> I have a mechanical gas meter with rotating dials and I can't see how
>> this
>> can communicate with an electronc device. Predictably my suppplier can
>> only
>> regurgitate marketing nonsense and I can't find any technical info in the
>> interweb.
> Here's one being torn apart.
>
> <https://youtu.be/vPc14g-b2YY>

Timely. I finally succumbed to EDF's pressure to have one. There was a
long hiatus because the first team to assess it said they couldn't do it
because "there is asbestos in your main fuse box". In the end we got
Western Power Distribution out to check. Being a 1924 house we have a
lovely old cast iron box where the leccy comes in. They opened it up and
showed me that the only asbestos was behind the main fuses. They changed
them I think and said it should be fine.

I have to be careful clipping the hedge between us and next door for
fear of snipping the wire to his sender or whatever on their garage
wall, so I will be looking closely to see where they site mine.

--
Moto Morini 2C/375, Moto Morini 2C/350
Gilera 175 Sport, Husqvarna 401 Svartpilen
1937 Sunbeam Model 14 250 Sports
"Do not adjust your mind, there is a fault in the reality"

On 22/01/2022 09:35, Pete Fisher wrote:
> On 22/01/2022 09:14, Andy Burns wrote:
>> Speedgazebo  MOTP Speedgazebo MOTP #1 wrote:
>>
>>> How does a smart meter measure gas?
>>
>> Ultrasonic pulses
>>
>>> I have a mechanical gas meter with rotating dials and I can't see how
>>> this
>>> can communicate with an electronc device. Predictably my suppplier
>>> can only
>>> regurgitate marketing nonsense and I can't find any technical info in
>>> the
>>> interweb.
>> Here's one being torn apart.
>>
>> <https://youtu.be/vPc14g-b2YY>
>
>
> Timely. I finally succumbed to EDF's pressure to have one. There was a
> long hiatus because the first team to assess it said they couldn't do it
> because "there is asbestos in your main fuse box". In the end we got
> Western Power Distribution out to check. Being a 1924 house we have a
> lovely old cast iron box where the leccy comes in. They opened it up and
> showed me that the only asbestos was behind the main fuses. They changed
> them I think and said it should be fine.
>
> I have to be careful clipping the hedge between us and next door for
> fear of snipping the wire to his sender or whatever on their garage
> wall, so I will be looking closely to see where they site mine.
>
>
>

I had one fitted. Hopeless. Since it was fitted I've had two or three
different energy suppliers (RIP uswitch), and not a single one of them
were able to get meter readings automatically.

It displays gas consumption in some obscure unit (can't remember what it
is), but it's not what the reading the energy companies want for billing.

It does absolutely nothing towards helping "save" energy IMO. You need
to be able to identify the source of the big guzzlers in your home which
isn't so easy to do.

--
/Simon

On 22/01/2022 11:58, siwilson wrote:
> On 22/01/2022 09:35, Pete Fisher wrote:
>> On 22/01/2022 09:14, Andy Burns wrote:
>>> Speedgazebo  MOTP Speedgazebo MOTP #1 wrote:
>>>
>>>> How does a smart meter measure gas?
>>>
>>> Ultrasonic pulses
>>>
>>>> I have a mechanical gas meter with rotating dials and I can't see
>>>> how this
>>>> can communicate with an electronc device. Predictably my suppplier
>>>> can only
>>>> regurgitate marketing nonsense and I can't find any technical info
>>>> in the
>>>> interweb.
>>> Here's one being torn apart.
>>>
>>> <https://youtu.be/vPc14g-b2YY>
>>
>>
>> Timely. I finally succumbed to EDF's pressure to have one. There was a
>> long hiatus because the first team to assess it said they couldn't do
>> it because "there is asbestos in your main fuse box". In the end we
>> got Western Power Distribution out to check. Being a 1924 house we
>> have a lovely old cast iron box where the leccy comes in. They opened
>> it up and showed me that the only asbestos was behind the main fuses.
>> They changed them I think and said it should be fine.
>>
>> I have to be careful clipping the hedge between us and next door for
>> fear of snipping the wire to his sender or whatever on their garage
>> wall, so I will be looking closely to see where they site mine.
>>
>>
>>
>
> I had one fitted. Hopeless. Since it was fitted I've had two or three
> different energy suppliers (RIP uswitch), and not a single one of them
> were able to get meter readings automatically.
>
> It displays gas consumption in some obscure unit (can't remember what it
> is), but it's not what the reading the energy companies want for billing.
>
> It does absolutely nothing towards helping "save" energy IMO. You need
> to be able to identify the source of the big guzzlers in your home which
> isn't so easy to do.
>

True. So far as gas is concerned, on a day like yesterday that is the
Worcester Bosch boiler - no need for anything smart to determine that.

One day, I will calculate the wattage of three desktop PCs running 24/7.
Significantly warmer in the 'computer room' than elsewhere on a cold
morning. At least only one shared monitor on 'energy saving' mode'.

--
Moto Morini 2C/375, Moto Morini 2C/350
Gilera 175 Sport, Husqvarna 401 Svartpilen
1937 Sunbeam Model 14 250 Sports
"Do not adjust your mind, there is a fault in the reality"

siwilson wrote:
> I had one fitted. Hopeless. Since it was fitted I've had two or three
> different energy suppliers (RIP uswitch), and not a single one of them
> were able to get meter readings automatically.

Mine's been a bit on-and-off. The little display that you're meant to be able to use with it though, utterly useless.

> It displays gas consumption in some obscure unit (can't remember what it
> is), but it's not what the reading the energy companies want for billing.

I've never seen a gas meter that didn't measure in either hundreds of cubic feet, or cubic metres.

> It does absolutely nothing towards helping "save" energy IMO. You need
> to be able to identify the source of the big guzzlers in your home which
> isn't so easy to do.

I've always assumed the thing about saving energy was less a practical way to save money in the short term ("Oh, I'll just turn off the fridge or freeze my tits off without the heating, shall I?") and more a tacit hint towards what's intended to come later: variable billing based on demand, with increased cost at peak times intended to drive down consumption. If pricing can be varied every half hour, then there's potential for Economy 7 (or its inverse) on steroids. But obviously nobody's going to tout the downsides for the consumer while also trying to drive take-up of smart metering.

On 22/01/2022 12:14, ogden wrote:
> siwilson wrote:
>> I had one fitted. Hopeless. Since it was fitted I've had two or three
>> different energy suppliers (RIP uswitch), and not a single one of them
>> were able to get meter readings automatically.
>
> Mine's been a bit on-and-off. The little display that you're meant to be able to use with it though, utterly useless.
>
>
>> It displays gas consumption in some obscure unit (can't remember what it
>> is), but it's not what the reading the energy companies want for billing.
>
> I've never seen a gas meter that didn't measure in either hundreds of cubic feet, or cubic metres.

Not sure of the details, but iirc the smartmeter shows BTU and the
actual meter m3, or vice versa.
>

>
>> It does absolutely nothing towards helping "save" energy IMO. You need
>> to be able to identify the source of the big guzzlers in your home which
>> isn't so easy to do.
>
> I've always assumed the thing about saving energy was less a practical way to save money in the short term ("Oh, I'll just turn off the fridge or freeze my tits off without the heating, shall I?") and more a tacit hint towards what's intended to come later: variable billing based on demand, with increased cost at peak times intended to drive down consumption. If pricing can be varied every half hour, then there's potential for Economy 7 (or its inverse) on steroids. But obviously nobody's going to tout the downsides for the consumer while also trying to drive take-up of smart metering.

Yeah this is the worry/danger.

--
/Simon

On 22/01/2022 12:05, Pete Fisher wrote:
> On 22/01/2022 11:58, siwilson wrote:
>> On 22/01/2022 09:35, Pete Fisher wrote:
>>> On 22/01/2022 09:14, Andy Burns wrote:
>>>> Speedgazebo  MOTP Speedgazebo MOTP #1 wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> How does a smart meter measure gas?
>>>>
>>>> Ultrasonic pulses
>>>>
>>>>> I have a mechanical gas meter with rotating dials and I can't see
>>>>> how this
>>>>> can communicate with an electronc device. Predictably my suppplier
>>>>> can only
>>>>> regurgitate marketing nonsense and I can't find any technical info
>>>>> in the
>>>>> interweb.
>>>> Here's one being torn apart.
>>>>
>>>> <https://youtu.be/vPc14g-b2YY>
>>>
>>>
>>> Timely. I finally succumbed to EDF's pressure to have one. There was
>>> a long hiatus because the first team to assess it said they couldn't
>>> do it because "there is asbestos in your main fuse box". In the end
>>> we got Western Power Distribution out to check. Being a 1924 house we
>>> have a lovely old cast iron box where the leccy comes in. They opened
>>> it up and showed me that the only asbestos was behind the main fuses.
>>> They changed them I think and said it should be fine.
>>>
>>> I have to be careful clipping the hedge between us and next door for
>>> fear of snipping the wire to his sender or whatever on their garage
>>> wall, so I will be looking closely to see where they site mine.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I had one fitted. Hopeless. Since it was fitted I've had two or three
>> different energy suppliers (RIP uswitch), and not a single one of them
>> were able to get meter readings automatically.
>>
>> It displays gas consumption in some obscure unit (can't remember what
>> it is), but it's not what the reading the energy companies want for
>> billing.
>>
>> It does absolutely nothing towards helping "save" energy IMO. You need
>> to be able to identify the source of the big guzzlers in your home
>> which isn't so easy to do.
>>
>
> True. So far as gas is concerned, on a day like yesterday that is the
> Worcester Bosch boiler - no need for anything smart to determine that.
>
> One day, I will calculate the wattage of three desktop PCs running 24/7.

Surely, sir needs a server if that is the case.

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

On 22/01/2022 15:57, YTC#1 wrote:
> On 22/01/2022 12:05, Pete Fisher wrote:
>> On 22/01/2022 11:58, siwilson wrote:
>>> On 22/01/2022 09:35, Pete Fisher wrote:
>>>> On 22/01/2022 09:14, Andy Burns wrote:
>>>>> Speedgazebo  MOTP Speedgazebo MOTP #1 wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> How does a smart meter measure gas?
>>>>>
>>>>> Ultrasonic pulses
>>>>>
>>>>>> I have a mechanical gas meter with rotating dials and I can't see
>>>>>> how this
>>>>>> can communicate with an electronc device. Predictably my suppplier
>>>>>> can only
>>>>>> regurgitate marketing nonsense and I can't find any technical info
>>>>>> in the
>>>>>> interweb.
>>>>> Here's one being torn apart.
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://youtu.be/vPc14g-b2YY>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Timely. I finally succumbed to EDF's pressure to have one. There was
>>>> a long hiatus because the first team to assess it said they couldn't
>>>> do it because "there is asbestos in your main fuse box". In the end
>>>> we got Western Power Distribution out to check. Being a 1924 house
>>>> we have a lovely old cast iron box where the leccy comes in. They
>>>> opened it up and showed me that the only asbestos was behind the
>>>> main fuses. They changed them I think and said it should be fine.
>>>>
>>>> I have to be careful clipping the hedge between us and next door for
>>>> fear of snipping the wire to his sender or whatever on their garage
>>>> wall, so I will be looking closely to see where they site mine.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> I had one fitted. Hopeless. Since it was fitted I've had two or three
>>> different energy suppliers (RIP uswitch), and not a single one of
>>> them were able to get meter readings automatically.
>>>
>>> It displays gas consumption in some obscure unit (can't remember what
>>> it is), but it's not what the reading the energy companies want for
>>> billing.
>>>
>>> It does absolutely nothing towards helping "save" energy IMO. You
>>> need to be able to identify the source of the big guzzlers in your
>>> home which isn't so easy to do.
>>>
>>
>> True. So far as gas is concerned, on a day like yesterday that is the
>> Worcester Bosch boiler - no need for anything smart to determine that.
>>
>> One day, I will calculate the wattage of three desktop PCs running 24/7.
>
> Surely, sir needs a server if that is the case.
>
>
>
>
>

One of them is an Ubuntu server. It runs LogicalDOC and Metabase.
One of them is current box which runs a webcam surveillance package
amongst other things.
One of them is the previous box, which I still have one or two 'legacy'
things running on which I haven't transferred to the new box.
Distributed system innit?

--
Moto Morini 2C/375, Moto Morini 2C/350
Gilera 175 Sport, Husqvarna 401 Svartpilen
1937 Sunbeam Model 14 250 Sports
"Do not adjust your mind, there is a fault in the reality"

On Sat, 22 Jan 2022 15:57:28 +0000, YTC#1 <bdp@ytc1-spambin.co.uk>
wrote:

>On 22/01/2022 12:05, Pete Fisher wrote:

>>
>> One day, I will calculate the wattage of three desktop PCs running 24/7.
>
>Surely, sir needs a server if that is the case.

And then sir will surely know just how much power a single computer
can use! Once I shut down the home server (OK, it was a rather big
Dell box) my electricity consumption just plummeted. Everything local
now runs from a single laptop; it's on 24 hours a day, but it handles
services quite effectively without really showing up on the power
graphs, and I can use it for general stuff, including gaming, as well.
Other packages that I don't need here any longer are now cloud-based,
their efficiency is better than I'll manage in a domestic situation.

The solar power system has a quite good API for extracting consumption
details, which I can process almost realtime. This doesn't
particularly help with analysing the individual power consumption of
other items in the house - but then the major culprits here are
obvious just from the timings. The heating in the winter, air con in
the summer, and pool pump all year round probably account for >85% of
the total consumption, and the rest is insignificant.

--

Pete
Garage vacancy now filled, N+1 incremented accordingly
F800R

Speedgazebo MOTP #1 <nickaird@gmail.com> wrote:
> How does a smart meter measure gas?
> I have a mechanical gas meter with rotating dials and I can't see how this can communicate with an electronc device. Predictably my suppplier can only regurgitate marketing nonsense and I can't find any technical info in the interweb.

Dunno, but I've been listening to my electric meter and my water meter
using a Raspberry Pi 3 with a cheap RTL-SDR dongle and the "rtlamr"
software package to decode/filter my meters out of the literally
hundreds of other meters I can pick up.

Unfortunately, my gas meter, while it has a wireless interface
attached, only transmits after getting a signal from a meter reading
truck. I could probably rig up some sort of a transmitter to trigger
it, but I haven't been motivated enough to do it. I'd really like to
correlate gas usage with the outside temp (which I am also getting
from a Raspberry Pi with another RTL-SDR dongle, listening to my
LaCrosse outside temperature/humidity transmitter.

--
FJR1300A, GL1000, KLR650A6F, EX250J9A, DR200SE, Vespa Ciao

On 22/01/2022 16:31, Pete Fisher wrote:
> On 22/01/2022 15:57, YTC#1 wrote:
>> On 22/01/2022 12:05, Pete Fisher wrote:
>>> On 22/01/2022 11:58, siwilson wrote:
>>>> On 22/01/2022 09:35, Pete Fisher wrote:
>>>>> On 22/01/2022 09:14, Andy Burns wrote:
>>>>>> Speedgazebo  MOTP Speedgazebo MOTP #1 wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> How does a smart meter measure gas?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ultrasonic pulses
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have a mechanical gas meter with rotating dials and I can't see
>>>>>>> how this
>>>>>>> can communicate with an electronc device. Predictably my
>>>>>>> suppplier can only
>>>>>>> regurgitate marketing nonsense and I can't find any technical
>>>>>>> info in the
>>>>>>> interweb.
>>>>>> Here's one being torn apart.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://youtu.be/vPc14g-b2YY>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Timely. I finally succumbed to EDF's pressure to have one. There
>>>>> was a long hiatus because the first team to assess it said they
>>>>> couldn't do it because "there is asbestos in your main fuse box".
>>>>> In the end we got Western Power Distribution out to check. Being a
>>>>> 1924 house we have a lovely old cast iron box where the leccy comes
>>>>> in. They opened it up and showed me that the only asbestos was
>>>>> behind the main fuses. They changed them I think and said it should
>>>>> be fine.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have to be careful clipping the hedge between us and next door
>>>>> for fear of snipping the wire to his sender or whatever on their
>>>>> garage wall, so I will be looking closely to see where they site mine.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I had one fitted. Hopeless. Since it was fitted I've had two or
>>>> three different energy suppliers (RIP uswitch), and not a single one
>>>> of them were able to get meter readings automatically.
>>>>
>>>> It displays gas consumption in some obscure unit (can't remember
>>>> what it is), but it's not what the reading the energy companies want
>>>> for billing.
>>>>
>>>> It does absolutely nothing towards helping "save" energy IMO. You
>>>> need to be able to identify the source of the big guzzlers in your
>>>> home which isn't so easy to do.
>>>>
>>>
>>> True. So far as gas is concerned, on a day like yesterday that is the
>>> Worcester Bosch boiler - no need for anything smart to determine that.
>>>
>>> One day, I will calculate the wattage of three desktop PCs running 24/7.
>>
>> Surely, sir needs a server if that is the case.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> One of them is an Ubuntu server. It runs LogicalDOC and Metabase.
> One of them is current box which runs a webcam surveillance package
> amongst other things.
> One of them is the previous box, which I still have one or two 'legacy'
> things running on which I haven't transferred to the new box.
> Distributed system innit?
>

One box could easily run them all. This is what zones
(solaris/Illumos/SmartOS) and whatever the Linux equiv is these days
(LXC/Docker??)

Stuff currently running on my (Solaris 11.4), X86 i5 2ith 48Gb, server
in zones.
ytc-dns - err DNS
ytc-admin - As it says, admin shite
ytc-s10 - Solaris 10
ytc-doku - dokuwiki
ytc-pegfaq - External FAQ for Pegaso
ytc-dev - Dev shite
ytc-cloud - My NextCloud
ytc-cert - https certs access (letsencrypt)
ytc-desktop - If I need any Solaris Desktop apps from the server)
ytc-sgd - Secure Global Desktop (full desktop access across tinterweb)
ytc-repo - Solaris 11.4 install and patches
ytc-jet - Old school S10 install server
ytc-ansible - err ansible
ytc-git - that'l be my git server
ytc-halls-nc - a cloud for some of the family
ytc-test-nc - burn and test cloud

The only thing missing is being able to run Linux in a zone, for that I
would have to switch[1] to Ilumos or SmartOS and use Bhyve.

[1] On the agenda for when I lose access to Solaris patches.

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

On 22/01/2022 17:17, YTC#1 wrote:
> On 22/01/2022 16:31, Pete Fisher wrote:
>> On 22/01/2022 15:57, YTC#1 wrote:
>>> On 22/01/2022 12:05, Pete Fisher wrote:
>>>> On 22/01/2022 11:58, siwilson wrote:
>>>>> On 22/01/2022 09:35, Pete Fisher wrote:
>>>>>> On 22/01/2022 09:14, Andy Burns wrote:
>>>>>>> Speedgazebo  MOTP Speedgazebo MOTP #1 wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> How does a smart meter measure gas?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ultrasonic pulses
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have a mechanical gas meter with rotating dials and I can't
>>>>>>>> see how this
>>>>>>>> can communicate with an electronc device. Predictably my
>>>>>>>> suppplier can only
>>>>>>>> regurgitate marketing nonsense and I can't find any technical
>>>>>>>> info in the
>>>>>>>> interweb.
>>>>>>> Here's one being torn apart.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <https://youtu.be/vPc14g-b2YY>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Timely. I finally succumbed to EDF's pressure to have one. There
>>>>>> was a long hiatus because the first team to assess it said they
>>>>>> couldn't do it because "there is asbestos in your main fuse box".
>>>>>> In the end we got Western Power Distribution out to check. Being a
>>>>>> 1924 house we have a lovely old cast iron box where the leccy
>>>>>> comes in. They opened it up and showed me that the only asbestos
>>>>>> was behind the main fuses. They changed them I think and said it
>>>>>> should be fine.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have to be careful clipping the hedge between us and next door
>>>>>> for fear of snipping the wire to his sender or whatever on their
>>>>>> garage wall, so I will be looking closely to see where they site
>>>>>> mine.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I had one fitted. Hopeless. Since it was fitted I've had two or
>>>>> three different energy suppliers (RIP uswitch), and not a single
>>>>> one of them were able to get meter readings automatically.
>>>>>
>>>>> It displays gas consumption in some obscure unit (can't remember
>>>>> what it is), but it's not what the reading the energy companies
>>>>> want for billing.
>>>>>
>>>>> It does absolutely nothing towards helping "save" energy IMO. You
>>>>> need to be able to identify the source of the big guzzlers in your
>>>>> home which isn't so easy to do.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> True. So far as gas is concerned, on a day like yesterday that is
>>>> the Worcester Bosch boiler - no need for anything smart to determine
>>>> that.
>>>>
>>>> One day, I will calculate the wattage of three desktop PCs running
>>>> 24/7.
>>>
>>> Surely, sir needs a server if that is the case.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> One of them is an Ubuntu server. It runs LogicalDOC and Metabase.
>> One of them is current box which runs a webcam surveillance package
>> amongst other things.
>> One of them is the previous box, which I still have one or two
>> 'legacy' things running on which I haven't transferred to the new box.
>> Distributed system innit?
>>
>
> One box could easily run them all. This is what zones
> (solaris/Illumos/SmartOS) and whatever the Linux equiv is these days
> (LXC/Docker??)
>
> Stuff currently running on my (Solaris 11.4), X86 i5 2ith 48Gb, server
> in zones.
> ytc-dns - err DNS
> ytc-admin - As it says, admin shite
> ytc-s10 - Solaris 10
> ytc-doku - dokuwiki
> ytc-pegfaq - External FAQ for Pegaso
> ytc-dev - Dev shite
> ytc-cloud - My NextCloud
> ytc-cert - https certs access (letsencrypt)
> ytc-desktop - If I need any Solaris Desktop apps from the server)
> ytc-sgd - Secure Global Desktop (full desktop access across tinterweb)
> ytc-repo - Solaris 11.4 install and patches
> ytc-jet - Old school S10 install server
> ytc-ansible - err ansible
> ytc-git - that'l be my git server
> ytc-halls-nc - a cloud for some of the family
> ytc-test-nc - burn and test cloud
>
> The only thing missing is being able to run Linux in a zone, for that I
> would have to switch[1] to Ilumos or SmartOS and use Bhyve.
>
> [1] On the agenda for when I lose access to Solaris patches.
>

Sounds like a lot of nerdy unix hassle to me. Then there is the
'redundancy' factor. That one box down and everything is down.

Once the legacy stuff is transferred I will switch the previous main box
off. Those two are W10 if you hadn't already guessed.

Forgot box 4 which is an ancient Sony Vaio desktop still running XP. It
has a proper video capture card with all the bells and whistles
connections + DvGate for capturing video via firewire. Naturally I only
switch that on if wnating to do a bit more transcribing of the stack of
Super 8 and Digital 8 tapes I have. Not networked - just captured to a
big usb hard drive, for further processing on the most recent W10 box
because it is 32 GB RAM.

Then there are the various laptops. I've only just finally pensioned off
a really old Vaio that I was using as an NHCA timing clocks emulator
with a Qbasic program reading a raw log file and spitting out messages
on the RS232 port. Running it on a more recent Dell now.

--
Moto Morini 2C/375, Moto Morini 2C/350
Gilera 175 Sport, Husqvarna 401 Svartpilen
1937 Sunbeam Model 14 250 Sports
"Do not adjust your mind, there is a fault in the reality"

On Saturday, 22 January 2022 at 09:35:52 UTC, Pete Fisher wrote:
> On 22/01/2022 09:14, Andy Burns wrote:
> > Speedgazebo MOTP Speedgazebo MOTP #1 wrote:
> >
> >> How does a smart meter measure gas?
> >
> > Ultrasonic pulses
> >
> >> I have a mechanical gas meter with rotating dials and I can't see how
> >> this
> >> can communicate with an electronc device. Predictably my suppplier can
> >> only
> >> regurgitate marketing nonsense and I can't find any technical info in the
> >> interweb.
> > Here's one being torn apart.
> >
> > <https://youtu.be/vPc14g-b2YY>
> Timely. I finally succumbed to EDF's pressure to have one. There was a
> long hiatus because the first team to assess it said they couldn't do it
> because "there is asbestos in your main fuse box". In the end we got
> Western Power Distribution out to check. Being a 1924 house we have a
> lovely old cast iron box where the leccy comes in. They opened it up and
> showed me that the only asbestos was behind the main fuses. They changed
> them I think and said it should be fine.
>
> I have to be careful clipping the hedge between us and next door for
> fear of snipping the wire to his sender or whatever on their garage
> wall, so I will be looking closely to see where they site mine.

I have just answered my own question. Val has just had one fitted and it's actually two meters, one for gas and one for electricity. Doh...

As the focus seemed to be on measuring electricity I just assumed that there was some sort of interface for the gas meter.

Still not convinced, especially as I have discovered that you have to opt out of having your supplier from selling your consumption data to third parties. Fuck that.

--
Speedgazebo

ogden wrote:

> I've always assumed the thing about saving energy was less a
> practical way to save money in the short term ("Oh, I'll just turn
> off the fridge or freeze my tits off without the heating, shall I?")
> and more a tacit hint towards what's intended to come later: variable
> billing based on demand, with increased cost at peak times intended
> to drive down consumption. If pricing can be varied every half hour,
> then there's potential for Economy 7 (or its inverse) on steroids.
> But obviously nobody's going to tout the downsides for the consumer
> while also trying to drive take-up of smart metering.

My thoughts exactly.

--
Chris

On 22/01/2022 12:14, ogden wrote:
> I've always assumed the thing about saving energy was less a practical way to save money in the short term ("Oh, I'll just turn off the fridge or freeze my tits off without the heating, shall I?") and more a tacit hint towards what's intended to come later: variable billing based on demand, with increased cost at peak times intended to drive down consumption. If pricing can be varied every half hour, then there's potential for Economy 7 (or its inverse) on steroids. But obviously nobody's going to tout the downsides for the consumer while also trying to drive take-up of smart metering.

And for your delectation and delight, the latest smart meter fiasco...

<https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-10405685/ALL-smart-meters-need-replaced.html>

--
Bruce Horrocks
FJR1300AS

On 22/01/2022 18:34, Speedgazebo MOTP #1 wrote:
> Still not convinced, especially as I have discovered that you have to opt out of having your supplier from selling your consumption data to third parties. Fuck that.

I believe this is so that "switcher" sites can give more accurate
recommendations on which supplier to switch to. If you withhold then
clearly they have to ask you to enter usage info as they do at the
moment for dumb meters.

It's not such a big deal now but, in theory, when variable rates and
overnight car charging and all that gubbins comes into play then those
sites will need an electronic feed.

--
Bruce Horrocks
FJR1300AS

Bruce Horrocks <07.013@scorecrow.com> wrote in
news:58a93406-c395-55d6-7609-a04edcc32385@scorecrow.com:

> On 22/01/2022 12:14, ogden wrote:
>> I've always assumed the thing about saving energy was less a
>> practical way to save money in the short term ("Oh, I'll just turn
>> off the fridge or freeze my tits off without the heating, shall I?")
>> and more a tacit hint towards what's intended to come later: variable
>> billing based on demand, with increased cost at peak times intended
>> to drive down consumption. If pricing can be varied every half hour,
>> then there's potential for Economy 7 (or its inverse) on steroids.
>> But obviously nobody's going to tout the downsides for the consumer
>> while also trying to drive take-up of smart metering.
>
> And for your delectation and delight, the latest smart meter fiasco...
>
> <https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-10405685/ALL-smart-m
> eters-need-replaced.html>
>
>

Fiasco?

The goal has been achieved. �11 billion taken out the hands of the little
people into the hands of shareholders and pension funds. And China.

On 22/01/2022 12:14, ogden wrote:
> siwilson wrote:
>> I had one fitted. Hopeless. Since it was fitted I've had two or three
>> different energy suppliers (RIP uswitch), and not a single one of them
>> were able to get meter readings automatically.
>
> Mine's been a bit on-and-off. The little display that you're meant to be able to use with it though, utterly useless.
>
>
>> It displays gas consumption in some obscure unit (can't remember what it
>> is), but it's not what the reading the energy companies want for billing.
>
> I've never seen a gas meter that didn't measure in either hundreds of cubic feet, or cubic metres.

You'd think I'd remember these things, seeing as I built the national
gas meter database for British Gas, but no... I don't think there was
anything other than cu ft and cu m, and an indicator as to the number of
dials (so we knew whether it had gone round the clock or not). For
billing porpoises, that would be converted to BTU using all sorts of
clever calculations. I haven't looked at a gas bill in years (SWMBO
handles them) so I don't know whether they've moved over to kJ yet.

On 22/01/2022 21:54, Bruce Horrocks wrote:
> On 22/01/2022 12:14, ogden wrote:
>> I've always assumed the thing about saving energy was less a practical
>> way to save money in the short term ("Oh, I'll just turn off the
>> fridge or freeze my tits off without the heating, shall I?") and more
>> a tacit hint towards what's intended to come later: variable billing
>> based on demand, with increased cost at peak times intended to drive
>> down consumption. If pricing can be varied every half hour, then
>> there's potential for Economy 7 (or its inverse) on steroids. But
>> obviously nobody's going to tout the downsides for the consumer while
>> also trying to drive take-up of smart metering.
>
> And for your delectation and delight, the latest smart meter fiasco...
>
> <https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-10405685/ALL-smart-meters-need-replaced.html>
>
>
>

Oh well. I certainly wouldn't be paying to have one installed - well not
up front IYSWIM. We shall see. If all goes according to plan it will be
the next owners problem.

At least you can change suppliers now I think - though I opted in for a
fixed term contract with EDF just before the gas price balloon went up,
so not an issue for a while.

--
Moto Morini 2C/375, Moto Morini 2C/350
Gilera 175 Sport, Husqvarna 401 Svartpilen
1937 Sunbeam Model 14 250 Sports
"Do not adjust your mind, there is a fault in the reality"

On 22/01/2022 17:55, Pete Fisher wrote:
> On 22/01/2022 17:17, YTC#1 wrote:
>> On 22/01/2022 16:31, Pete Fisher wrote:
>>> On 22/01/2022 15:57, YTC#1 wrote:
>>>> On 22/01/2022 12:05, Pete Fisher wrote:
>>>>> On 22/01/2022 11:58, siwilson wrote:
>>>>>> On 22/01/2022 09:35, Pete Fisher wrote:
>>>>>>> On 22/01/2022 09:14, Andy Burns wrote:
>>>>>>>> Speedgazebo  MOTP Speedgazebo MOTP #1 wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> How does a smart meter measure gas?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ultrasonic pulses
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I have a mechanical gas meter with rotating dials and I can't
>>>>>>>>> see how this
>>>>>>>>> can communicate with an electronc device. Predictably my
>>>>>>>>> suppplier can only
>>>>>>>>> regurgitate marketing nonsense and I can't find any technical
>>>>>>>>> info in the
>>>>>>>>> interweb.
>>>>>>>> Here's one being torn apart.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <https://youtu.be/vPc14g-b2YY>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Timely. I finally succumbed to EDF's pressure to have one. There
>>>>>>> was a long hiatus because the first team to assess it said they
>>>>>>> couldn't do it because "there is asbestos in your main fuse box".
>>>>>>> In the end we got Western Power Distribution out to check. Being
>>>>>>> a 1924 house we have a lovely old cast iron box where the leccy
>>>>>>> comes in. They opened it up and showed me that the only asbestos
>>>>>>> was behind the main fuses. They changed them I think and said it
>>>>>>> should be fine.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have to be careful clipping the hedge between us and next door
>>>>>>> for fear of snipping the wire to his sender or whatever on their
>>>>>>> garage wall, so I will be looking closely to see where they site
>>>>>>> mine.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I had one fitted. Hopeless. Since it was fitted I've had two or
>>>>>> three different energy suppliers (RIP uswitch), and not a single
>>>>>> one of them were able to get meter readings automatically.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It displays gas consumption in some obscure unit (can't remember
>>>>>> what it is), but it's not what the reading the energy companies
>>>>>> want for billing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It does absolutely nothing towards helping "save" energy IMO. You
>>>>>> need to be able to identify the source of the big guzzlers in your
>>>>>> home which isn't so easy to do.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> True. So far as gas is concerned, on a day like yesterday that is
>>>>> the Worcester Bosch boiler - no need for anything smart to
>>>>> determine that.
>>>>>
>>>>> One day, I will calculate the wattage of three desktop PCs running
>>>>> 24/7.
>>>>
>>>> Surely, sir needs a server if that is the case.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> One of them is an Ubuntu server. It runs LogicalDOC and Metabase.
>>> One of them is current box which runs a webcam surveillance package
>>> amongst other things.
>>> One of them is the previous box, which I still have one or two
>>> 'legacy' things running on which I haven't transferred to the new
>>> box. Distributed system innit?
>>>
>>
>> One box could easily run them all. This is what zones
>> (solaris/Illumos/SmartOS) and whatever the Linux equiv is these days
>> (LXC/Docker??)
>>
>> Stuff currently running on my (Solaris 11.4), X86 i5 2ith 48Gb, server
>> in zones.
>> ytc-dns - err DNS
>> ytc-admin - As it says, admin shite
>> ytc-s10 - Solaris 10
>> ytc-doku - dokuwiki
>> ytc-pegfaq - External FAQ for Pegaso
>> ytc-dev - Dev shite
>> ytc-cloud - My NextCloud
>> ytc-cert - https certs access (letsencrypt)
>> ytc-desktop - If I need any Solaris Desktop apps from the server)
>> ytc-sgd - Secure Global Desktop (full desktop access across tinterweb)
>> ytc-repo - Solaris 11.4 install and patches
>> ytc-jet - Old school S10 install server
>> ytc-ansible - err ansible
>> ytc-git - that'l be my git server
>> ytc-halls-nc - a cloud for some of the family
>> ytc-test-nc - burn and test cloud
>>
>> The only thing missing is being able to run Linux in a zone, for that
>> I would have to switch[1] to Ilumos or SmartOS and use Bhyve.
>>
>> [1] On the agenda for when I lose access to Solaris patches.
>>
>
>
> Sounds like a lot of nerdy unix hassle to me. Then there is the
> 'redundancy' factor. That one box down and everything is down.

Desktop is capable of taking over the role(s) (an i3 with 64Gb).
M/B, CPU, RAM failure is rare.
If RAM fails, remove and replace when sourced.

If CPU fails (*never* had this happen), then obviously it can be
replaced. And when a CPU fails (I've seen it happen in bigger more
expensive servers it is usually something that you get a warning of).

M/B failure, fine, seen it happen once when I was careless.

Normal failures are HDD, I mirror sysem so can replace when warned by
OS. (Recently had some low level failures on 1 of my OS disks (which ZFS
handled) so replaced them both (minimal downtime, if I had spent more on
a hot swap system then it wold have been zero)

>
> Once the legacy stuff is transferred I will switch the previous main box
> off. Those two are W10 if you hadn't already guessed.
>
Yeah, I assumed so. Bit nerdy from my POV :-)

> Forgot box 4 which is an ancient Sony Vaio desktop still running XP.

Don't start me on the number of laptops I stil have around :-)
But I was merly pointing at there being no need to have multiple
machines on for 24/7 when 1 can do the job.
>
> Then there are the various laptops. I've only just finally pensioned off
> a really old Vaio that I was using as an NHCA timing clocks emulator
> with a Qbasic program reading a raw log file and spitting out messages
> on the RS232 port. Running it on a more recent Dell now.
>
>
QBasic, that takes me back

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

On 22/01/2022 17:01, Pete wrote:
> On Sat, 22 Jan 2022 15:57:28 +0000, YTC#1 <bdp@ytc1-spambin.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> On 22/01/2022 12:05, Pete Fisher wrote:
>
>>>
>>> One day, I will calculate the wattage of three desktop PCs running 24/7.
>>
>> Surely, sir needs a server if that is the case.
>
> And then sir will surely know just how much power a single computer

Very little, and less than the previous one it replaced.

Now, if I power up my Sparc T4 .... then I *really* see the numbers go
up :-)

> can use! Once I shut down the home server (OK, it was a rather big
> Dell box) my electricity consumption just plummeted. Everything local
> now runs from a single laptop; it's on 24 hours a day, but it handles
> services quite effectively without really showing up on the power
> graphs, and I can use it for general stuff, including gaming, as well.
> Other packages that I don't need here any longer are now cloud-based,
> their efficiency is better than I'll manage in a domestic situation.
>
> The solar power system has a quite good API for extracting consumption

Solar not really an option here.

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

On Sun, 23 Jan 2022 10:12:09 +0000, YTC#1 <bdp@ytc1-spambin.co.uk>
wrote:

>Solar not really an option here.

Nor here today. Two days ago we had the best day of the year so far,
more production than I'd seen since the start of November, now it's
zero output due to heavy (so heavy it's dropped into, not just over,
the hills) cloud.

--

Pete
Garage vacancy now filled, N+1 incremented accordingly
F800R

CT wrote:
> ogden wrote:
>
>> I've always assumed the thing about saving energy was less a
>> practical way to save money in the short term ("Oh, I'll just turn
>> off the fridge or freeze my tits off without the heating, shall I?")
>> and more a tacit hint towards what's intended to come later: variable
>> billing based on demand, with increased cost at peak times intended
>> to drive down consumption. If pricing can be varied every half hour,
>> then there's potential for Economy 7 (or its inverse) on steroids.
>> But obviously nobody's going to tout the downsides for the consumer
>> while also trying to drive take-up of smart metering.

> My thoughts exactly.

It's a way of getting the consumer to manage the intermittent and
highly-variable electricity supply system that's based on renewables,
via a pricing mechanism. It's so we can get to 'net zero' (whatever that
is) while pretending the emperor is fully dressed. At the moment, Coal
is producing 2.5x as much electricity as Solar, for example, and Wind is
well below plated output at 15% of demand (and almost the same as Nuclear).

--
Spike

On Sun, 23 Jan 2022 00:59:39 +0000, Mike Fleming <mike@tauzero.co.uk>
wrote:

>On 22/01/2022 12:14, ogden wrote:
>> siwilson wrote:
>>> I had one fitted. Hopeless. Since it was fitted I've had two or three
>>> different energy suppliers (RIP uswitch), and not a single one of them
>>> were able to get meter readings automatically.
>>
>> Mine's been a bit on-and-off. The little display that you're meant to be able to use with it though, utterly useless.
>>
>>
>>> It displays gas consumption in some obscure unit (can't remember what it
>>> is), but it's not what the reading the energy companies want for billing.
>>
>> I've never seen a gas meter that didn't measure in either hundreds of cubic feet, or cubic metres.
>
>You'd think I'd remember these things, seeing as I built the national
>gas meter database for British Gas, but no... I don't think there was
>anything other than cu ft and cu m, and an indicator as to the number of
>dials (so we knew whether it had gone round the clock or not). For
>billing porpoises, that would be converted to BTU using all sorts of
>clever calculations. I haven't looked at a gas bill in years (SWMBO
>handles them) so I don't know whether they've moved over to kJ yet.

From my latest gas bill - Your energy usage is calculated from your
gas consumption using a standard industry formula: Units Consumed
(Cubic Metres) × Volume Correction (for temperature & pressure)
× Calorific Value (energy in each m3 of gas) ÷ 3.6 (convert from
joules) » Usage (in kWh)

--
Colin Irvine
FJR1300A