A plumber (actually not a plumber but somebody who thinks he is a
plumber) told me that, upon restarting the gas heating after a long
summer pause, my old Vaillant (late 1990s) should be blasted at chimney
sweep mode for about 10-20 mins to "flush the crap" [his words] out the
pipes.

True? False?

Simon

Simon Ferrol <simon.ferrol@englandmail.com> wrote:
> A plumber (actually not a plumber but somebody who thinks he is a
> plumber) told me that, upon restarting the gas heating after a long
> summer pause, my old Vaillant (late 1990s) should be blasted at chimney
> sweep mode for about 10-20 mins to "flush the crap" [his words] out the
> pipes.
>
> True? False?
>
> Simon
>

Didn’t even know the mode existed until I did an online search. ;-)

Sounds like it put the boiler into maximum output mode for a period. As to
whether this is ever necessary or not I have no idea. Try it and see. ;-)

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

Tim+ <tim.downie@gmail.com> posted
>Simon Ferrol <simon.ferrol@englandmail.com> wrote:
>> A plumber (actually not a plumber but somebody who thinks he is a
>> plumber) told me that, upon restarting the gas heating after a long
>> summer pause, my old Vaillant (late 1990s) should be blasted at chimney
>> sweep mode for about 10-20 mins to "flush the crap" [his words] out the
>> pipes.
>>
>> True? False?
>>
>> Simon
>>
>
>Didn’t even know the mode existed until I did an online search. ;-)
>
>Sounds like it put the boiler into maximum output mode for a period. As to
>whether this is ever necessary or not I have no idea. Try it and see. ;-)

I have a much later Vaillant model (installed 2019). Although there is a
chimney sweep mode accessible from the front panel, there doesn't seem
to be any documentation of it whatsoever either in the owner's or the
installer's manual. Mind you, it is a truly appalling manual.

--
Algernon

On 07/11/2022 16:36, Tim+ wrote:
> Simon Ferrol <simon.ferrol@englandmail.com> wrote:
>> A plumber (actually not a plumber but somebody who thinks he is a
>> plumber) told me that, upon restarting the gas heating after a long
>> summer pause, my old Vaillant (late 1990s) should be blasted at chimney
>> sweep mode for about 10-20 mins to "flush the crap" [his words] out the
>> pipes.
>>
>> True? False?
>>
>> Simon
>>
>
> Didn’t even know the mode existed until I did an online search. ;-)
>
> Sounds like it put the boiler into maximum output mode for a period. As to
> whether this is ever necessary or not I have no idea. Try it and see. ;-)
>
I suspect it so a gas engineer can check the exhaust emissions with his
gas analyser.

On Mon, 7 Nov 2022 17:48:38 +0000, ARW <adamwadsworth@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

>On 07/11/2022 16:36, Tim+ wrote:
>> Simon Ferrol <simon.ferrol@englandmail.com> wrote:
>>> A plumber (actually not a plumber but somebody who thinks he is a
>>> plumber) told me that, upon restarting the gas heating after a long
>>> summer pause, my old Vaillant (late 1990s) should be blasted at chimney
>>> sweep mode for about 10-20 mins to "flush the crap" [his words] out the
>>> pipes.
>>>
>>> True? False?
>>>
>>> Simon
>>>
>>
>> Didn’t even know the mode existed until I did an online search. ;-)
>>
>> Sounds like it put the boiler into maximum output mode for a period. As to
>> whether this is ever necessary or not I have no idea. Try it and see. ;-)
>>
>I suspect it so a gas engineer can check the exhaust emissions with his
>gas analyser.
>

Exactly. As it's behind a cap, my "chimney sweep" puts the combi into full
output mode by turning up the hot water, faucet right next to the combi.

Just take a shower for 10-20 minutes, and then you will have flushed the crap
from the chimney *and* yourself!

The Treznal "chimney sweep" does an annual mandated check of the chimney,
sometimes with actual sweep, and combi flue gas analysis: flue pressure
(difference to ambient, aka draft), CO, CO2, Temp, O2, flue and ambient. An
efficiency is calculated from these numbers.

While it may seem very Treznal, I find it value for money, as for about 30€ in
fees it tells me when a more expensive service and adjust is needed. Also,
gently plying the sweep with coffee might get one a local plumber
recommendation, or a least A Look when one suggested one that he though a
cowboy.

Thomas Prufer

Thomas Prufer wrote:

> The Treznal "chimney sweep" does an annual mandated check of the chimney,
> sometimes with actual sweep, and combi flue gas analysis: flue pressure
> (difference to ambient, aka draft), CO, CO2, Temp, O2, flue and ambient. An
> efficiency is calculated from these numbers.
>
> While it may seem very Treznal, I find it value for money, as for about 30€ in
> fees it tells me when a more expensive service and adjust is needed.

For something mandatory, that doesn't seem to be inflated just because they
could, presumably the sweep has the power to plonk a red sticker on the
installation?

On 07/11/2022 11:42, Simon Ferrol wrote:
> A plumber (actually not a plumber but somebody who thinks he is a
> plumber) told me that, upon restarting the gas heating after a long
> summer pause, my old Vaillant (late 1990s) should be blasted at chimney
> sweep mode for about 10-20 mins to "flush the crap" [his words] out the
> pipes.
>
> True? False?

It's for analysing the flue gasses during annual servicing/checking
How to set the mode
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVZwnhxTHOU

Sweep mode is just turning the burner on 100%, or to minimum, for
checking flue exhaust. 100% burner will also be achieved by turning
your central heating on and lasts until your radiators have got to full
temperature.

The wording from your plumber seems pure BS. Where is the crap in the
pipes going to be flushed to and how are you going to remove it?

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 08/11/2022 11:10, alan_m wrote:
> On 07/11/2022 11:42, Simon Ferrol wrote:
>> A plumber (actually not a plumber but somebody who thinks he is a
>> plumber) told me that, upon restarting the gas heating after a long
>> summer pause, my old Vaillant (late 1990s) should be blasted at
>> chimney sweep mode for about 10-20 mins to "flush the crap" [his
>> words] out the pipes.
>>
>> True? False?
>
> It's for analysing the flue gasses during annual servicing/checking
> How to set the mode
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVZwnhxTHOU
>
> Sweep mode is just turning the burner on 100%, or to minimum, for
> checking flue exhaust. 100%  burner will also be achieved by turning
> your central heating on and lasts until your radiators have got to full
> temperature.
>
> The wording from your plumber seems pure BS. Where is the crap in the
> pipes going to be flushed to and how are you going to remove it?
>

Well if its anything like my log burner, it will be a dead crow, and it
will combust :-)

--
“Some people like to travel by train because it combines the slowness of
a car with the cramped public exposure of 
an airplane.”

Dennis Miller

Thanks. But is it dangerous? If the pipes are cold/frozen and you blast
90 degrees into them, would they break? Sorry it may be a stupid
question but I'm a council tenant and I don't want to fuck up with the
council.

Op 08/11/2022 om 11:10 schreef alan_m:
> On 07/11/2022 11:42, Simon Ferrol wrote:
>> A plumber (actually not a plumber but somebody who thinks he is a
>> plumber) told me that, upon restarting the gas heating after a long
>> summer pause, my old Vaillant (late 1990s) should be blasted at
>> chimney sweep mode for about 10-20 mins to "flush the crap" [his
>> words] out the pipes.
>>
>> True? False?
>
> It's for analysing the flue gasses during annual servicing/checking
> How to set the mode
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVZwnhxTHOU
>
> Sweep mode is just turning the burner on 100%, or to minimum, for
> checking flue exhaust. 100%  burner will also be achieved by turning
> your central heating on and lasts until your radiators have got to full
> temperature.
>
> The wording from your plumber seems pure BS. Where is the crap in the
> pipes going to be flushed to and how are you going to remove it?
>

Simon Ferrol <simon.ferrol@englandmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks. But is it dangerous? If the pipes are cold/frozen and you blast
> 90 degrees into them, would they break? Sorry it may be a stupid
> question but I'm a council tenant and I don't want to fuck up with the
> council.

If they’re cold, no problem. If they’re frozen, they’re probably already
broken.

Tim
--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 08/11/2022 16:32, Tim+ wrote:

>
> If they’re cold, no problem. If they’re frozen, they’re probably already
> broken.
>

During the bad winter of 2010/11 I was sent to wire up a new solid fuel
boiler as the old one blew up.

The owners were away in Spain for the festive period and the next door
neighbour was tasked with lighting the boiler on their return a
fortnight later so that they would come home to a nice warm house.......

On 08/11/2022 15:55, Simon Ferrol wrote:
> Thanks. But is it dangerous? If the pipes are cold/frozen and you blast
> 90 degrees into them, would they break? Sorry it may be a stupid
> question but I'm a council tenant and I don't want to fuck up with the
> council.

Are you saying that you can never use your boiler if the temperature is
cold outside?

Think about it. Your "plumber" is telling you to use the chimney sweep
mode only if you have left the boiler off over the Summer. The "chimney
sweep mode" is for all intensive purposes just the same switching your
central heating on ___AND___ it happens every time you turn on your
central heating throughout the winter months.

In general, the "chimney sweeping mode" on a gas boiler is nothing to do
with putting a brush up a chimney. It is service mode allowing the gas
technician to put the boiler into a test mode so that you can monitor
the flue output with his test equipment.

If running boilers burner at full damages the flue/boiler in freezing
weather then there would be 26 million broken boilers in the UK each year!

If your central heating water pipes are frozen you have a much bigger
problem.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On Tue, 8 Nov 2022 09:32:34 +0000, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:

>For something mandatory, that doesn't seem to be inflated just because they
>could, presumably the sweep has the power to plonk a red sticker on the
>installation?

Yes. I have known my sweep for a long time: He told me that he did in fact
red-sticker a bathroom heater as unsafe, and notify, put seal on it, etc. The
tenant ripped the (symbolic) seal off, used the heater anyway, and died in the
bathtub of carbon monoxide poisoning.

This sweep is a also a good source of advice as to which combi, heater etc is
good and which isn't, and when a tradesman is ripping you off: no financial
stake in the outcome, see...

Thomas Prufer

Thomas Prufer <prufer.public@mnet-online.de.invalid> posted
>On Tue, 8 Nov 2022 09:32:34 +0000, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
>
>>For something mandatory, that doesn't seem to be inflated just because they
>>could, presumably the sweep has the power to plonk a red sticker on the
>>installation?
>
>Yes. I have known my sweep for a long time: He told me that he did in fact
>red-sticker a bathroom heater as unsafe, and notify, put seal on it, etc. The
>tenant ripped the (symbolic) seal off, used the heater anyway, and died in the
>bathtub of carbon monoxide poisoning.

Customers who fail to follow their tradesman's advice always die soon
afterwards, according to tradesmen. It's an iron law of business.

Many years ago, in the middle of winter, my 88-year-old mother in law
called me to say she had got a tradesman in to service her gas fire. He
said it wasn't up to building regulations, put stickers all over it and
told her not to use it, so there she was sitting in her freezing lounge.
I went down there, ripped the stickers off, put the fire on, and removed
the guy's business cards from the house so she never called him again.

--
Algernon

On 09/11/2022 07:47, Algernon Goss-Custard wrote:
> Thomas Prufer <prufer.public@mnet-online.de.invalid> posted
>> On Tue, 8 Nov 2022 09:32:34 +0000, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> For something mandatory, that doesn't seem to be inflated just
>>> because they
>>> could, presumably the sweep has the power to plonk a red sticker on the
>>> installation?
>>
>> Yes. I  have known my sweep for a long time: He told me that he did in
>> fact
>> red-sticker a bathroom heater as unsafe, and notify, put seal on it,
>> etc. The
>> tenant ripped the (symbolic) seal off, used the heater anyway, and
>> died in the
>> bathtub of carbon monoxide poisoning.
>
> Customers who fail to follow their tradesman's advice always die soon
> afterwards, according to tradesmen. It's an iron law of business.
>
> Many years ago, in the middle of winter,  my 88-year-old mother in law
> called me to say she had got a tradesman in to service her gas fire. He
> said it wasn't up to building regulations, put stickers all over it and
> told her not to use it, so there she was sitting in her freezing lounge.
> I went down there, ripped the stickers off, put the fire on, and removed
> the guy's business cards from the house so she never called him again.
>
Yeah, the guy who came to service my boiler said it was supposed to have
a CO alarm by it.

Never heard of that. Want in the regs when I built the house so fuckit

I've got five combustion appliances in my house. Oil boiler is the
safest and most isolated

--
"In our post-modern world, climate science is not powerful because it is
true: it is true because it is powerful."

Lucas Bergkamp

On 09/11/2022 07:47, Algernon Goss-Custard wrote:

> Many years ago, in the middle of winter,  my 88-year-old mother in law
> called me to say she had got a tradesman in to service her gas fire. He
> said it wasn't up to building regulations, put stickers all over it and
> told her not to use it, so there she was sitting in her freezing lounge.
> I went down there, ripped the stickers off, put the fire on, and removed
> the guy's business cards from the house so she never called him again.
>

The company I once worked for employed a contractor to do the PAT
testing. They had a list of the company's assets (electronic test
equipment, soldering irons etc. etc.). Each item with a company assets
number attached to it was tested. Any equipment without a number,
including customers very expensive equipment and work in progress (the
manufactured items being tested and prototypes still being designed),
had a very large bright red very sticky sticker stuck over the front
panel/controls stating DANGER - DO NOT USE.

The two people doing the PAT had zero interest in their job and I
wouldn't be that surprised if any of the inspections or testing were in
any way meaningful.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On Wed, 9 Nov 2022 07:47:04 +0000, Algernon Goss-Custard <Ben@nowhere.com>
wrote:

>Customers who fail to follow their tradesman's advice always die soon
>afterwards, according to tradesmen. It's an iron law of business.

This is the mandated chimney sweep. He condemns the unit -- it's up to the
landlord or tenant to find their own tradesman and repair it or replace it. This
removes the incentive for the sweep to spuriously condemn units.

I thought that was clear...

Thomas Prufer

On 08/11/2022 15:55, Simon Ferrol wrote:

> Thanks. But is it dangerous?

What putting the boiler into full output test mode? No it is not
dangerous. However there is no need to do it unless you are servicing or
commissioning the boiler (i.e. first use after installation)

> If the pipes are cold/frozen and you blast
> 90 degrees into them, would they break?

If the pipes are frozen then you will have no water circulation - the
boiler would lockout with a fault code.

> Sorry it may be a stupid
> question but I'm a council tenant and I don't want to fuck up with the
> council.

Presumably it is their responsibility to ensure that it is seviced? If
so let them get on with it. There should be nothing special you as a
user need to do.

> Op 08/11/2022 om 11:10 schreef alan_m:
>> On 07/11/2022 11:42, Simon Ferrol wrote:
>>> A plumber (actually not a plumber but somebody who thinks he is a
>>> plumber) told me that, upon restarting the gas heating after a long
>>> summer pause, my old Vaillant (late 1990s) should be blasted at
>>> chimney sweep mode for about 10-20 mins to "flush the crap" [his
>>> words] out the pipes.
>>>
>>> True? False?

I think that is one of those "not even wrong" statements - the
recommendation is based on a misunderstanding. So ignore it.

--
Cheers,

John.

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