Looking idly at the wiki I'm not seeing much on solar panels, inverters or addition of batteries to systems. Is my searching at fault or is there scope for a new section?

On Tue, 08 Nov 2022 00:46:13 -0800, John J wrote:

> Looking idly at the wiki I'm not seeing much on solar panels, inverters
> or addition of batteries to systems. Is my searching at fault or is
> there scope for a new section?

More information on Amazon.

On 08/11/2022 08:46, John J wrote:
> Looking idly at the wiki I'm not seeing much on solar panels, inverters or addition of batteries to systems. Is my searching at fault or is there scope for a new section?

I also am looking for info.

I am planning to rebuild a detached garage which currently has no power
at all. I need to design an electrical system which will keep a car
charged for commuting, presumably a combination of solar panels, wind
turbines, static batteries and a mains connection to make sure I can
charge a vehicle overnight, only occasionally resort to mains usage and
otherwise feed-in any excess.

It should be perfectly feasible, no? But it needs the right specs and
hardware and needs to be costed.

TW

TimW <timw@nothanks.com> wrote:
> On 08/11/2022 08:46, John J wrote:
> > Looking idly at the wiki I'm not seeing much on solar panels, inverters
> > or addition of batteries to systems. Is my searching at fault or is
> > there scope for a new section?

Probably. A lot of the info is international, although there are some local
details (DNO connection etc). Some UK localisation could be useful. I'm
not sure if there's an existing resource that it's better to point people at
for the non-local info.

My suggestion of the go-to place is diysolarforum.com but a lot of folks
there are US-based. eg I was trying to find some 'class T' fuses which they
recommend over circuit breakers for DC, but 'class T' is a UL standard and
they're impossible to buy over here. Once I'd worked out that it means
'high rupturing current' (dozens/hundreds of kA) and I'd found the HRC fuse
section on Farnell, it made a lot more sense. Turns out the corresponding
UK equivalent is 'BS88' industrial fuses, which are easily available.

> I also am looking for info.
>
> I am planning to rebuild a detached garage which currently has no power
> at all. I need to design an electrical system which will keep a car
> charged for commuting, presumably a combination of solar panels, wind
> turbines, static batteries and a mains connection to make sure I can
> charge a vehicle overnight, only occasionally resort to mains usage and
> otherwise feed-in any excess.
>
> It should be perfectly feasible, no? But it needs the right specs and
> hardware and needs to be costed.

Should be doable, depending on what you want.

Perhaps a way to do it might be to agree what the topics of interest are,
perhaps posed as questions here. It's much easier to answer questions than
it is to sit down and write a book on the subject :)

(I'm currently building a battery system and have solar in planning, so can
fill in some of the gaps. However I'm learning as I go, so it would ideally
be checked by somebody with more experience)

Theo

Theo wrote:

> I was trying to find some 'class T' fuses which they
> recommend over circuit breakers for DC, but 'class T' is a UL standard and
> they're impossible to buy over here. Once I'd worked out that it means
> 'high rupturing current' (dozens/hundreds of kA) and I'd found the HRC fuse
> section on Farnell, it made a lot more sense. Turns out the corresponding
> UK equivalent is 'BS88' industrial fuses, which are easily available.

searching for "type T" rather than "class T" seems to get better results

On 08/11/2022 08:46, John J wrote:
> Looking idly at the wiki I'm not seeing much on solar panels,
> inverters or addition of batteries to systems. Is my searching at

There is some stuff on solar thermal, but not much on solar PV...

> fault or is there scope for a new section?

Very much so... One problem with the wiki currently is there are only a
limited number of authors who create new articles, so unless a topic
appeals to one of them, it does not get much coverage.

--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
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| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> Theo wrote:
>
> > I was trying to find some 'class T' fuses which they
> > recommend over circuit breakers for DC, but 'class T' is a UL standard and
> > they're impossible to buy over here. Once I'd worked out that it means
> > 'high rupturing current' (dozens/hundreds of kA) and I'd found the HRC fuse
> > section on Farnell, it made a lot more sense. Turns out the corresponding
> > UK equivalent is 'BS88' industrial fuses, which are easily available.
>
> searching for "type T" rather than "class T" seems to get better results

I think they're different: 'class T' is a UL standard for high rupturing
current. 'Type T' seems to be a time delay fuse:
https://www.amazon.com/Power-Gear-18251-Delay-2-Pack/dp/B002DN8EQO
- and it seems like both can refer to industrial fuses.

BS88 is a much easier standard to find and a lot cheaper to buy in the UK.

Theo

On 08/11/2022 10:20, Theo wrote:
> TimW <timw@nothanks.com> wrote:
>> On 08/11/2022 08:46, John J wrote:
>>> Looking idly at the wiki I'm not seeing much on solar panels, inverters
>>> or addition of batteries to systems. Is my searching at fault or is
>>> there scope for a new section?
>
> Probably. A lot of the info is international, although there are some local
> details (DNO connection etc). Some UK localisation could be useful. I'm
> not sure if there's an existing resource that it's better to point people at
> for the non-local info.
>
> My suggestion of the go-to place is diysolarforum.com but a lot of folks
> there are US-based. eg I was trying to find some 'class T' fuses which they
> recommend over circuit breakers for DC, but 'class T' is a UL standard and
> they're impossible to buy over here. Once I'd worked out that it means
> 'high rupturing current' (dozens/hundreds of kA) and I'd found the HRC fuse
> section on Farnell, it made a lot more sense. Turns out the corresponding
> UK equivalent is 'BS88' industrial fuses, which are easily available.

A small amount of info on those here:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Fuse#Incomer_Fuses_.28BS_88_.22HRC.22_.26_BS_1361.29

--
Cheers,

John.

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| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

On Tuesday, 8 November 2022 at 09:55:08 UTC, TimW wrote:
> On 08/11/2022 08:46, John J wrote:
> > Looking idly at the wiki I'm not seeing much on solar panels, inverters or addition of batteries to systems. Is my searching at fault or is there scope for a new section?

I only remember one article on solar thermal panels. Write one if you're up for it.

> I also am looking for info.
>
> I am planning to rebuild a detached garage which currently has no power
> at all. I need to design an electrical system which will keep a car
> charged for commuting, presumably a combination of solar panels, wind
> turbines, static batteries and a mains connection to make sure I can
> charge a vehicle overnight, only occasionally resort to mains usage and
> otherwise feed-in any excess.
>
> It should be perfectly feasible, no? But it needs the right specs and
> hardware and needs to be costed.
>
> TW

Solar & wind will deliver a % of the time. If you want to ensure it gets charged you'd also need batteries several times the capacity of the car one. It would be silly expensive.

On Tue, 8 Nov 2022 09:55:03 +0000, TimW <timw@nothanks.com> wrote:

>On 08/11/2022 08:46, John J wrote:
>> Looking idly at the wiki I'm not seeing much on solar panels, inverters or addition of batteries to systems. Is my searching at fault or is there scope for a new section?
>
>I also am looking for info.
>
>I am planning to rebuild a detached garage which currently has no power
>at all. I need to design an electrical system which will keep a car
>charged for commuting, presumably a combination of solar panels, wind
>turbines, static batteries and a mains connection to make sure I can
>charge a vehicle overnight, only occasionally resort to mains usage and
>otherwise feed-in any excess.
>
>It should be perfectly feasible, no? But it needs the right specs and
>hardware and needs to be costed.
>
Rig one of these, or something like it. (I got one after I had to call
out the AA with a flat battery twice during 2020. Leave it connected
all the time, but I leave the car outside and it faces south.)

On Tuesday, 8 November 2022 at 16:00:40 UTC, Animal wrote:
> On Tuesday, 8 November 2022 at 09:55:08 UTC, TimW wrote:
> > On 08/11/2022 08:46, John J wrote:
> > > Looking idly at the wiki I'm not seeing much on solar panels, inverters or addition of batteries to systems. Is my searching at fault or is there scope for a new section?
> I only remember one article on solar thermal panels. Write one if you're up for it.

If I had sufficient knowledge of Solar panels, inverters and batteries I'd have been happy to make a start. However as I haven't I thought it would be worth looking in the wiki.
For what it's worth I've got a "professionally" installed 4kW grid tied system that has yielded higher rate FIT payments. Currently I'm thinking it might be worthwhile to investigate the current maximum grid tie arrangements and best rates of payment for export of any unused generation or the economics of installing batteries and no export. Maybe even run part of the house independently of grid connection. All this before looking into arrangements/mounting of panels located elsewhere as the roof is already full.

> > I also am looking for info.
> >
> > I am planning to rebuild a detached garage which currently has no power
> > at all. I need to design an electrical system which will keep a car
> > charged for commuting, presumably a combination of solar panels, wind
> > turbines, static batteries and a mains connection to make sure I can
> > charge a vehicle overnight, only occasionally resort to mains usage and
> > otherwise feed-in any excess.
> >
> > It should be perfectly feasible, no? But it needs the right specs and
> > hardware and needs to be costed.
> >
> > TW
> Solar & wind will deliver a % of the time. If you want to ensure it gets charged you'd also need batteries several times the capacity of the car one.. It would be silly expensive.

On 08/11/2022 09:55, TimW wrote:
> I also am looking for info.
>
> I am planning to rebuild a detached garage which currently has no power
> at all. I need to design an electrical system which will keep a car
> charged for commuting, presumably a combination of solar panels, wind
> turbines, static batteries and a mains connection to make sure I can
> charge a vehicle overnight, only occasionally resort to mains usage and
> otherwise feed-in any excess.
>
> It should be perfectly feasible, no? But it needs the right specs and
> hardware and needs to be costed.

If "charged for commuting" implies it won't be there in the day the
solar panels are a waste of time and money. Unless you can find a cheap
set of batteries with more capacity than the car.

You can't of course rely on wind either. I think you'll be using the
mains a lot.

Andy

On 08/11/2022 17:09, Vir Campestris wrote:
> On 08/11/2022 09:55, TimW wrote:
>> I also am looking for info.
>>
>> I am planning to rebuild a detached garage which currently has no
>> power at all. I need to design an electrical system which will keep a
>> car charged for commuting, presumably a combination of solar panels,
>> wind turbines, static batteries and a mains connection to make sure I
>> can charge a vehicle overnight, only occasionally resort to mains
>> usage and otherwise feed-in any excess.
>>
>> It should be perfectly feasible, no? But it needs the right specs and
>> hardware and needs to be costed.
>
> If "charged for commuting" implies it won't be there in the day the
> solar panels are a waste of time and money. Unless you can find a cheap
> set of batteries with more capacity than the car.
>
> You can't of course rely on wind either. I think you'll be using the
> mains a lot.
>

Not at all. With the price of fuel and of mains electric high and likely
to stay high and the price of panels and batteries likely to be going
down a moments thought will tell you that the economics of it are sound.
There might be times when you use the mains but a little planning and a
little flexibility will help.

There is a lot of misinformation about, for political reasons. Sadly in
these times you need to be careful who to trust and believe.

TW

On 08/11/2022 16:00, Animal wrote:
> On Tuesday, 8 November 2022 at 09:55:08 UTC, TimW wrote:
>> On 08/11/2022 08:46, John J wrote:
>>> Looking idly at the wiki I'm not seeing much on solar panels, inverters or addition of batteries to systems. Is my searching at fault or is there scope for a new section?
>
> I only remember one article on solar thermal panels. Write one if you're up for it.
>
>> I also am looking for info.
>>
>> I am planning to rebuild a detached garage which currently has no power
>> at all. I need to design an electrical system which will keep a car
>> charged for commuting, presumably a combination of solar panels, wind
>> turbines, static batteries and a mains connection to make sure I can
>> charge a vehicle overnight, only occasionally resort to mains usage and
>> otherwise feed-in any excess.
>>
>> It should be perfectly feasible, no? But it needs the right specs and
>> hardware and needs to be costed.
>>
>> TW
>
> Solar & wind will deliver a % of the time. If you want to ensure it gets charged you'd also need batteries several times the capacity of the car one. It would be silly expensive.

They are expensive but a high capacity battery for exactly that purpose
is a standard requirement and an off the shelf item. Nissan car
batteries can be given a 'second life' by design as static charging
batteries. So when you upgrade or replace your car batteries they are
part-exchanged, refurbed and re-used.

The cost of a tank of petrol being what it is, and renewables being free
once you have the hardware in place - the cost is relative!

TW

On 09/11/2022 10:38, TimW wrote:
> On 08/11/2022 17:09, Vir Campestris wrote:
>> On 08/11/2022 09:55, TimW wrote:
>>> I also am looking for info.
>>>
>>> I am planning to rebuild a detached garage which currently has no
>>> power at all. I need to design an electrical system which will keep a
>>> car charged for commuting, presumably a combination of solar panels,
>>> wind turbines, static batteries and a mains connection to make sure I
>>> can charge a vehicle overnight, only occasionally resort to mains
>>> usage and otherwise feed-in any excess.
>>>
>>> It should be perfectly feasible, no? But it needs the right specs and
>>> hardware and needs to be costed.
>>
>> If "charged for commuting" implies it won't be there in the day the
>> solar panels are a waste of time and money. Unless you can find a
>> cheap set of batteries with more capacity than the car.
>>
>> You can't of course rely on wind either. I think you'll be using the
>> mains a lot.
>>
>
> Not at all. With the price of fuel and of mains electric high and likely
> to stay high and the price of panels and batteries likely to be going
> down a moments thought will tell you that the economics of it are sound.
> There might be times when you use the mains but a little planning and a
> little flexibility will help.

More than I can think through in a moment! ISTM crucial facts are (a)
total net cost of what your home system can generate plus the cost of
anything you still have to buy from the grid and (b) the total cost of
buying it all from the grid.

Easy enough to DIY an investment appraisal. Not so easy to get the
assumptions right about e.g. output, life expectancy, maintenance &
repairs, future prices for grid power, cost of money. I'd be interested
to see sums.

> There is a lot of misinformation about, for political reasons. Sadly in
> these times you need to be careful who to trust and believe.
>

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

John Rumm <see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
> On 08/11/2022 08:46, John J wrote:
> > Looking idly at the wiki I'm not seeing much on solar panels,
> > inverters or addition of batteries to systems. Is my searching at
> > fault or is there scope for a new section?
>
> Very much so... One problem with the wiki currently is there are only a
> limited number of authors who create new articles, so unless a topic
> appeals to one of them, it does not get much coverage.

I have started wiring something :)

At the moment just dumping words down, it'll need numbers / diagrams /
sources etc sorting out later.

Not yet uploaded (easier to edit locally), but in the meantime useful to
have a list of 'things that you would like to know about' so as to get an
idea for areas to cover.

Theo

On 09/11/2022 11:03, Robin wrote:
> On 09/11/2022 10:38, TimW wrote:
>> On 08/11/2022 17:09, Vir Campestris wrote:
>>> On 08/11/2022 09:55, TimW wrote:
>>>> I also am looking for info.
>>>>
>>>> I am planning to rebuild a detached garage which currently has no
>>>> power at all. I need to design an electrical system which will keep
>>>> a car charged for commuting, presumably a combination of solar
>>>> panels, wind turbines, static batteries and a mains connection to
>>>> make sure I can charge a vehicle overnight, only occasionally resort
>>>> to mains usage and otherwise feed-in any excess.
>>>>
>>>> It should be perfectly feasible, no? But it needs the right specs
>>>> and hardware and needs to be costed.
>>>
>>> If "charged for commuting" implies it won't be there in the day the
>>> solar panels are a waste of time and money. Unless you can find a
>>> cheap set of batteries with more capacity than the car.
>>>
>>> You can't of course rely on wind either. I think you'll be using the
>>> mains a lot.
>>>
>>
>> Not at all. With the price of fuel and of mains electric high and
>> likely to stay high and the price of panels and batteries likely to be
>> going down a moments thought will tell you that the economics of it
>> are sound. There might be times when you use the mains but a little
>> planning and a little flexibility will help.
>
> More than I can think through in a moment!  ISTM crucial facts are (a)
> total net cost of what your home system can generate plus the cost of
> anything you still have to buy from the grid and (b) the total cost of
> buying it all from the grid.
>
> Easy enough to DIY an investment appraisal.  Not so easy to get the
> assumptions right about e.g. output, life expectancy, maintenance &
> repairs, future prices for grid power, cost of money.  I'd be interested
> to see sums.
>

Yes of course nothing is ever really simple and I was being triggered
after reading too much climate denier BS elsewhere.

In my case I was thinking £100 to fill the car up now, once a week every
week, £5000 a year would fund a system for free charging of an electric
car no problem (as long as it works).

But considerations are never purely economics. The cheapest way to get
to work is probably to sell my good car and buy and old hatch back for
£1000 then lift share as well, but I am not doing that.

TW

On Wednesday, 9 November 2022 at 10:46:35 UTC, TimW wrote:
> On 08/11/2022 16:00, Animal wrote:
> > On Tuesday, 8 November 2022 at 09:55:08 UTC, TimW wrote:
> >> On 08/11/2022 08:46, John J wrote:
> >>> Looking idly at the wiki I'm not seeing much on solar panels, inverters or addition of batteries to systems. Is my searching at fault or is there scope for a new section?
> >
> > I only remember one article on solar thermal panels. Write one if you're up for it.
> >
> >> I also am looking for info.
> >>
> >> I am planning to rebuild a detached garage which currently has no power
> >> at all. I need to design an electrical system which will keep a car
> >> charged for commuting, presumably a combination of solar panels, wind
> >> turbines, static batteries and a mains connection to make sure I can
> >> charge a vehicle overnight, only occasionally resort to mains usage and
> >> otherwise feed-in any excess.
> >>
> >> It should be perfectly feasible, no? But it needs the right specs and
> >> hardware and needs to be costed.
> >>
> >> TW
> >
> > Solar & wind will deliver a % of the time. If you want to ensure it gets charged you'd also need batteries several times the capacity of the car one. It would be silly expensive.
> They are expensive but a high capacity battery for exactly that purpose
> is a standard requirement and an off the shelf item. Nissan car
> batteries can be given a 'second life' by design as static charging
> batteries. So when you upgrade or replace your car batteries they are
> part-exchanged, refurbed and re-used.

Don't forget replaced again and again.

> The cost of a tank of petrol being what it is, and renewables being free
> once you have the hardware in place - the cost is relative!
>
> TW

'Renewables' are not free, they're the system cost amortised over the time it lasts.
Feel free to offer us a costed system design, I can't believe it's going to make economic sense in most situations.

On Wednesday, 9 November 2022 at 14:41:39 UTC, TimW wrote:
> On 09/11/2022 11:03, Robin wrote:
> > On 09/11/2022 10:38, TimW wrote:
> >> On 08/11/2022 17:09, Vir Campestris wrote:
> >>> On 08/11/2022 09:55, TimW wrote:
> >>>> I also am looking for info.
> >>>>
> >>>> I am planning to rebuild a detached garage which currently has no
> >>>> power at all. I need to design an electrical system which will keep
> >>>> a car charged for commuting, presumably a combination of solar
> >>>> panels, wind turbines, static batteries and a mains connection to
> >>>> make sure I can charge a vehicle overnight, only occasionally resort
> >>>> to mains usage and otherwise feed-in any excess.
> >>>>
> >>>> It should be perfectly feasible, no? But it needs the right specs
> >>>> and hardware and needs to be costed.
> >>>
> >>> If "charged for commuting" implies it won't be there in the day the
> >>> solar panels are a waste of time and money. Unless you can find a
> >>> cheap set of batteries with more capacity than the car.
> >>>
> >>> You can't of course rely on wind either. I think you'll be using the
> >>> mains a lot.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Not at all. With the price of fuel and of mains electric high and
> >> likely to stay high and the price of panels and batteries likely to be
> >> going down a moments thought will tell you that the economics of it
> >> are sound. There might be times when you use the mains but a little
> >> planning and a little flexibility will help.
> >
> > More than I can think through in a moment! ISTM crucial facts are (a)
> > total net cost of what your home system can generate plus the cost of
> > anything you still have to buy from the grid and (b) the total cost of
> > buying it all from the grid.
> >
> > Easy enough to DIY an investment appraisal. Not so easy to get the
> > assumptions right about e.g. output, life expectancy, maintenance &
> > repairs, future prices for grid power, cost of money. I'd be interested
> > to see sums.
> >
> Yes of course nothing is ever really simple and I was being triggered
> after reading too much climate denier BS elsewhere.
>
> In my case I was thinking £100 to fill the car up now, once a week every
> week, £5000 a year would fund a system for free charging of an electric
> car no problem (as long as it works).
>
> But considerations are never purely economics. The cheapest way to get
> to work is probably to sell my good car and buy and old hatch back for
> £1000 then lift share as well, but I am not doing that.
>
> TW

Even cheaper to thumb lifts, hack a random car owner to pieces & take their car. Can't recommend it though :) Money definitely isn't everything.
Several of us are curious to see your system design & costs.

On 09/11/2022 14:41, TimW wrote:
> On 09/11/2022 11:03, Robin wrote:

>> More than I can think through in a moment!  ISTM crucial facts are (a)
>> total net cost of what your home system can generate plus the cost of
>> anything you still have to buy from the grid and (b) the total cost of
>> buying it all from the grid.
>>
>> Easy enough to DIY an investment appraisal.  Not so easy to get the
>> assumptions right about e.g. output, life expectancy, maintenance &
>> repairs, future prices for grid power, cost of money.  I'd be
>> interested to see sums.
>>
>
> Yes of course nothing is ever really simple and I was being triggered
> after reading too much climate denier BS elsewhere.
>
> In my case I was thinking £100 to fill the car up now, once a week every
> week, £5000 a year would fund a system for free charging of an electric
> car no problem (as long as it works).

You could probably simplify the charging platform considerably if you
just buy two electric cars. Then you can be driving one, while the other
sits at home being charged without whatever solar PV is available during
the day. Once it is full, swap cars.

--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
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| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

John Rumm <see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
> On 09/11/2022 14:41, TimW wrote:
>> On 09/11/2022 11:03, Robin wrote:
>
>>> More than I can think through in a moment!  ISTM crucial facts are (a)
>>> total net cost of what your home system can generate plus the cost of
>>> anything you still have to buy from the grid and (b) the total cost of
>>> buying it all from the grid.
>>>
>>> Easy enough to DIY an investment appraisal.  Not so easy to get the
>>> assumptions right about e.g. output, life expectancy, maintenance &
>>> repairs, future prices for grid power, cost of money.  I'd be
>>> interested to see sums.
>>>
>>
>> Yes of course nothing is ever really simple and I was being triggered
>> after reading too much climate denier BS elsewhere.
>>
>> In my case I was thinking £100 to fill the car up now, once a week every
>> week, £5000 a year would fund a system for free charging of an electric
>> car no problem (as long as it works).
>
> You could probably simplify the charging platform considerably if you
> just buy two electric cars. Then you can be driving one, while the other
> sits at home being charged without whatever solar PV is available during
> the day. Once it is full, swap cars.
>
>

Simpler still, just drive after dark. ;-)

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

Animal <tabbypurr@gmail.com> wrote:
> 'Renewables' are not free, they're the system cost amortised over the time it lasts.
> Feel free to offer us a costed system design, I can't believe it's going to make economic sense in most situations.

Here you go:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Solar_PV_example:_single_garage

Payback time about 3.6 years at current rates.

Anyone want to critique my numbers?

Theo

On Thursday, 10 November 2022 at 21:57:33 UTC, Theo wrote:
> Animal <tabb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > 'Renewables' are not free, they're the system cost amortised over the time it lasts.
> > Feel free to offer us a costed system design, I can't believe it's going to make economic sense in most situations.
> Here you go:
> http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Solar_PV_example:_single_garage
>
> Payback time about 3.6 years at current rates.
>
> Anyone want to critique my numbers?
>
> Theo

Some questions:
How many kWh per day does your car use? How many days per year will this system provide that if the car is there all the time? As your system has no battery, how much time is the car not there, and how much power do you thus get to harvest?
What percentage of what the system can produce will your car actually use?
How much will the full buckets weigh? Is the roof upto it? If not, what willl it cost to reinforce it?

On Thursday, 10 November 2022 at 17:37:52 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
> On 09/11/2022 14:41, TimW wrote:
> > On 09/11/2022 11:03, Robin wrote:
>
> >> More than I can think through in a moment! ISTM crucial facts are (a)
> >> total net cost of what your home system can generate plus the cost of
> >> anything you still have to buy from the grid and (b) the total cost of
> >> buying it all from the grid.
> >>
> >> Easy enough to DIY an investment appraisal. Not so easy to get the
> >> assumptions right about e.g. output, life expectancy, maintenance &
> >> repairs, future prices for grid power, cost of money. I'd be
> >> interested to see sums.
> >>
> >
> > Yes of course nothing is ever really simple and I was being triggered
> > after reading too much climate denier BS elsewhere.
> >
> > In my case I was thinking £100 to fill the car up now, once a week every
> > week, £5000 a year would fund a system for free charging of an electric
> > car no problem (as long as it works).
> You could probably simplify the charging platform considerably if you
> just buy two electric cars. Then you can be driving one, while the other
> sits at home being charged without whatever solar PV is available during
> the day. Once it is full, swap cars.
Yes but that would mean shovelling all the empty food wrappers, dog leads, free newspapers, empty plastic bottles, forgotten garments, phone chargers, bad novels, single gloves, muddy footwear, Chinese takeaway menus, apple cores, windscreen scrapers, de-icer aerosols, bags for life, etc, from one car to the other. Maybe a cassette system would work, where the floor of the car could be automatically moved.
Bill

On 10/11/2022 21:57, Theo wrote:
> Animal <tabbypurr@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 'Renewables' are not free, they're the system cost amortised over the time it lasts.
>> Feel free to offer us a costed system design, I can't believe it's going to make economic sense in most situations.
>
> Here you go:
> http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Solar_PV_example:_single_garage
>
> Payback time about 3.6 years at current rates.
>
> Anyone want to critique my numbers?
>

A small point on costs. Planning permission is not required for most PV
systems. But a flat roof means you can't usually manage sensibly the
permitted development tests of "not above the highest part of the roof"
and "project no more than 200mm from the roof". Costs about £200.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid