Give it another 6-7 years and electrical fires might be back down to the level
they were at before Part P was introduced ...

<https://eandt.theiet.org/content/articles/2022/10/electrical-wiring-fires-increase-across-uk/>

On 07/11/2022 18:54, Andy Burns wrote:
> Give it another 6-7 years and electrical fires might be back down to the
> level they were at before Part P was introduced ...
>
> <https://eandt.theiet.org/content/articles/2022/10/electrical-wiring-fires-increase-across-uk/>
>

Wot's a 'fuse board' ?? :-)

On 07/11/2022 18:54, Andy Burns wrote:
> Give it another 6-7 years and electrical fires might be back down to the
> level they were at before Part P was introduced ...
>
> <https://eandt.theiet.org/content/articles/2022/10/electrical-wiring-fires-increase-across-uk/>

Wasn't it predicted that the legislation would push up prices and more
incompetent people would resort to DIY.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> Give it another 6-7 years and electrical fires might be back down to the level
> they were at before Part P was introduced ...
>
> <https://eandt.theiet.org/content/articles/2022/10/electrical-wiring-fires-increase-across-uk/>

Headline: Electrical wiring fires increase across UK

Data: A graph showing number of fires decreasing since 2010 (when the
reporting system was changed).

I think that wins the 'bad science' award of the month...

Theo

alan_m wrote:

> Wasn't it predicted that the legislation would push up prices and more
> incompetent people would resort to DIY.

Or use more multi-way socket strips

On Mon, 07 Nov 2022 18:54:55 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:

> Give it another 6-7 years and electrical fires might be back down to the
> level they were at before Part P was introduced ...
>
> <https://eandt.theiet.org/content/articles/2022/10/electrical-wiring-
fires-increase-across-uk/>

Our fire was caused by a faulty thermal cut-out on a Creda underfloor
ducted heating system, that had been inspected 6 months previously.

On 07/11/2022 18:54, Andy Burns wrote:
> Give it another 6-7 years and electrical fires might be back down to the
> level they were at before Part P was introduced ...
>
> <https://eandt.theiet.org/content/articles/2022/10/electrical-wiring-fires-increase-across-uk/>

I recall from discussions here at the the time there was a fairly strong
consensus that this was one of a number of predicted outcomes!

If you take a situation where one can identify a problem, and then fix
it or get it fixed easily and quickly, and then introduce FUD into the
process which makes it more complicated and expensive to fix, then there
is a much stronger likelihood that it won't get fixed.

Then on top of that introduce a path where lower quality bodge fixes are
explicitly cited as not being affected by the new rules, and it is not
surprising that they gain traction.

--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

On 07/11/2022 19:38, alan_m wrote:
> On 07/11/2022 18:54, Andy Burns wrote:
>> Give it another 6-7 years and electrical fires might be back down to
>> the level they were at before Part P was introduced ...
>>
>> <https://eandt.theiet.org/content/articles/2022/10/electrical-wiring-fires-increase-across-uk/>
>
> Wasn't it predicted that the legislation would push up prices and more
> incompetent people would resort to DIY.

I think it is more subtle than that. Incompetent people are not usually
troubled by rules and regulations, and so less effected by part P.

The problem is the ones who *do* want to do stuff "by the book" are now
inhibited from doing something. So you in effect reduce the quantity of
work done by the very people best suited to doing it!

--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

On 07/11/2022 18:54, Andy Burns wrote:
> Give it another 6-7 years and electrical fires might be back down to the
> level they were at before Part P was introduced ...
>
> <https://eandt.theiet.org/content/articles/2022/10/electrical-wiring-fires-increase-across-uk/>
haha

On 07/11/2022 18:54, Andy Burns wrote:
> Give it another 6-7 years and electrical fires might be back down to the
> level they were at before Part P was introduced ...
>
> <https://eandt.theiet.org/content/articles/2022/10/electrical-wiring-fires-increase-across-uk/>
whwn things made sense years ago under the Scottidh regs Part P was
prevention of obstructions

In article <tkdcje$3sp0e$2@dont-email.me>,
John Rumm <see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
> On 07/11/2022 19:38, alan_m wrote:
> > On 07/11/2022 18:54, Andy Burns wrote:
> >> Give it another 6-7 years and electrical fires might be back down to
> >> the level they were at before Part P was introduced ...
> >>
> >> <https://eandt.theiet.org/content/articles/2022/10/electrical-wiring-fires-increase-across-uk/>
> >
> > Wasn't it predicted that the legislation would push up prices and more
> > incompetent people would resort to DIY.

> I think it is more subtle than that. Incompetent people are not usually
> troubled by rules and regulations, and so less effected by part P.

> The problem is the ones who *do* want to do stuff "by the book" are now
> inhibited from doing something. So you in effect reduce the quantity of
> work done by the very people best suited to doing it!

IMHO, it's a bit like all these 'think tanks'. Generally set out to prove
a point of view already held. And pressure groups going for legislation
that benefits only them - under the H&S banner or whatever - tarred with
the same brush.

--
*The sooner you fall behind, the more time you'll have to catch up *

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 08/11/2022 10:55, John Rumm wrote:
> On 07/11/2022 19:38, alan_m wrote:
>> On 07/11/2022 18:54, Andy Burns wrote:
>>> Give it another 6-7 years and electrical fires might be back down to
>>> the level they were at before Part P was introduced ...
>>>
>>> <https://eandt.theiet.org/content/articles/2022/10/electrical-wiring-fires-increase-across-uk/>
>>
>> Wasn't it predicted that the legislation would push up prices and more
>> incompetent people would resort to DIY.
>
> I think it is more subtle than that. Incompetent people are not usually
> troubled by rules and regulations, and so less effected by part P.
>
> The problem is the ones who *do* want to do stuff "by the book" are now
> inhibited from doing something. So you in effect reduce the quantity of
> work done by the very people best suited to doing it!
>
>
From an EICR I did a couple of days ago.

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:12V_to_230V_swap.jpg

Transformer removed and GU10 fly leads added to the MR11 12V spotlight
connectors.

On 08/11/2022 15:24, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article <tkdcje$3sp0e$2@dont-email.me>,
> John Rumm <see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
>> On 07/11/2022 19:38, alan_m wrote:
>>> On 07/11/2022 18:54, Andy Burns wrote:
>>>> Give it another 6-7 years and electrical fires might be back down to
>>>> the level they were at before Part P was introduced ...
>>>>
>>>> <https://eandt.theiet.org/content/articles/2022/10/electrical-wiring-fires-increase-across-uk/>
>>>
>>> Wasn't it predicted that the legislation would push up prices and more
>>> incompetent people would resort to DIY.
>
>> I think it is more subtle than that. Incompetent people are not usually
>> troubled by rules and regulations, and so less effected by part P.
>
>> The problem is the ones who *do* want to do stuff "by the book" are now
>> inhibited from doing something. So you in effect reduce the quantity of
>> work done by the very people best suited to doing it!
>
> IMHO, it's a bit like all these 'think tanks'. Generally set out to prove
> a point of view already held. And pressure groups going for legislation
> that benefits only them - under the H&S banner or whatever - tarred with
> the same brush.
>

All the more credit to the Select Committee who looked at the evidence
and recommended a reduction in the scope of Part P, and to the Ministers
who acted on it. A rare example of politicians being brave enough to
say no to the "more regulation is safer" lobby.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 08/11/2022 10:53, John Rumm wrote:
> On 07/11/2022 18:54, Andy Burns wrote:
>> Give it another 6-7 years and electrical fires might be back down to
>> the level they were at before Part P was introduced ...
>>
>> <https://eandt.theiet.org/content/articles/2022/10/electrical-wiring-fires-increase-across-uk/>
>
> I recall from discussions here at the the time there was a fairly strong
> consensus that this was one of a number of predicted outcomes!
>
> If you take a situation where one can identify a problem, and then fix
> it or get it fixed easily and quickly, and then introduce FUD into the
> process which makes it more complicated and expensive to fix, then there
> is a much stronger likelihood that it won't get fixed.
>
> Then on top of that introduce a path where lower quality bodge fixes are
> explicitly cited as not being affected by the new rules, and it is not
> surprising that they gain traction.
>
>

Possibly. But the IET's article did not fill me with confidence in
their figures. They start with "Electrical distribution fires occur
within the fixed electrical parts of a home such as wiring and fuse
boards." But the fire stats since 2010 have used "electrical
distribution" to cover 3 categories: heating sources, apparatus (meter,
fuse box), and wiring/cabling/plugs. I assume they excluded the first.
But if they included the third then what about other factors. Eg how did
the FRS score fires started in the ever greater numbers of wall warts
plugged in to charge smart phones?

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

In many systems there is a sweet spot between complexity and simplicity
where reliability is better.
Brian

--

--:
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"jon" <jon@nospam.cn> wrote in message news:tkcouh$3rfoc$1@dont-email.me...
> On Mon, 07 Nov 2022 18:54:55 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> Give it another 6-7 years and electrical fires might be back down to the
>> level they were at before Part P was introduced ...
>>
>> <https://eandt.theiet.org/content/articles/2022/10/electrical-wiring-
> fires-increase-across-uk/>
>
> Our fire was caused by a faulty thermal cut-out on a Creda underfloor
> ducted heating system, that had been inspected 6 months previously.

For many years I had two 8 watt lights fed withnon standard three core wire
from Tandy in weird colours. Never had a problem at all. Obviously not meant
for the job, but nothing ever happened.
Brian

--

--:
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"ARW" <adamwadsworth@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:tke9gr$3vgft$1@dont-email.me...
> On 08/11/2022 10:55, John Rumm wrote:
>> On 07/11/2022 19:38, alan_m wrote:
>>> On 07/11/2022 18:54, Andy Burns wrote:
>>>> Give it another 6-7 years and electrical fires might be back down to
>>>> the level they were at before Part P was introduced ...
>>>>
>>>> <https://eandt.theiet.org/content/articles/2022/10/electrical-wiring-fires-increase-across-uk/>
>>>
>>> Wasn't it predicted that the legislation would push up prices and more
>>> incompetent people would resort to DIY.
>>
>> I think it is more subtle than that. Incompetent people are not usually
>> troubled by rules and regulations, and so less effected by part P.
>>
>> The problem is the ones who *do* want to do stuff "by the book" are now
>> inhibited from doing something. So you in effect reduce the quantity of
>> work done by the very people best suited to doing it!
>>
>>
> From an EICR I did a couple of days ago.
>
> http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:12V_to_230V_swap.jpg
>
> Transformer removed and GU10 fly leads added to the MR11 12V spotlight
> connectors.

In article <893b02c0-3dcc-8710-7e1c-bbdd7296fb1f@outlook.com>,
Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:
> On 08/11/2022 10:53, John Rumm wrote:
> > On 07/11/2022 18:54, Andy Burns wrote:
> >> Give it another 6-7 years and electrical fires might be back down to
> >> the level they were at before Part P was introduced ...
> >>
> >> <https://eandt.theiet.org/content/articles/2022/10/electrical-wiring-fires-increase-across-uk/>
> >
> > I recall from discussions here at the the time there was a fairly strong
> > consensus that this was one of a number of predicted outcomes!
> >
> > If you take a situation where one can identify a problem, and then fix
> > it or get it fixed easily and quickly, and then introduce FUD into the
> > process which makes it more complicated and expensive to fix, then there
> > is a much stronger likelihood that it won't get fixed.
> >
> > Then on top of that introduce a path where lower quality bodge fixes are
> > explicitly cited as not being affected by the new rules, and it is not
> > surprising that they gain traction.
> >
> >

> Possibly. But the IET's article did not fill me with confidence in
> their figures. They start with "Electrical distribution fires occur
> within the fixed electrical parts of a home such as wiring and fuse
> boards." But the fire stats since 2010 have used "electrical
> distribution" to cover 3 categories: heating sources, apparatus (meter,
> fuse box), and wiring/cabling/plugs. I assume they excluded the first.
> But if they included the third then what about other factors. Eg how did
> the FRS score fires started in the ever greater numbers of wall warts
> plugged in to charge smart phones?

One thing that amuses me. The desire to restrict all such things to
registered pros. Then introduce the need for things like Wagos. Designed
to be safe with idiots.

--
*Why 'that tie suits you' but 'those shoes suit you'?*

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Brian Gaff <brian1gaff@gmail.com> wrote

> In many systems there is a sweet spot between complexity and simplicity
> where reliability is better.

Have fun listing any examples of that now with commonly
used stuff apart from stuff like stainless steel cutlerly etc.