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aus+uk / uk.rec.cycling / Re: Drivers warned to expect an ‘avalanche’ of fines after major change to yellow box rules

SubjectAuthor
* Drivers warned to expect an ‘avalanche’ of fineswldx...@gmail.com
`* Re: Drivers warned to expect an ‘avalanche’ of fMike Collins
 +- Re: Drivers warned to expect an ‘avalancheJNugent
 `- Re: Drivers warned to expect an ‘avalanche’ of fswldx...@gmail.com

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Drivers warned to expect an ‘avalanche’ of fines after major change to yellow box rules

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Subject: _Drivers_warned_to_expect_an_‘avalanche’_of_fine
s_after_major_change_to_yellow_box_rules
From: swldxer1...@gmail.com (swldx...@gmail.com)
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 by: swldx...@gmail.com - Fri, 1 Apr 2022 13:24 UTC

"A DfT spokeswoman said: "These new powers are designed to improve cycle safety, air quality and support of bus services."

DRIVERS are being warned to expect an "avalanche" of fines after a major change to yellow box junction rules.

Councils across England will soon be able to issue fees for moving traffic offences, including making an illegal turn, driving the wrong way down a one-way street or 'misusing' a yellow box.

The Government will take applications from councils, giving them the green light to issue penalty charge notices for these offences from June 1.

But the RAC claims drivers will be unfairly punished unless the Department for Transport improves its design, maintenance and enforcement guidelines.

Yellow boxes are used to ensure traffic flows smoothly through busy junctions.

Motorists should only enter them when their exit is clear or they are waiting to turn right.

But campaigners say many have "design flaws", such as being too large or having buildings or street furniture obstructing the view of where they end.

The problems can cause drivers to be trapped through no fault of their own, they say.

Government guidance on yellow boxes fails to state their specific function, how to design them in relation to vehicle movements or how to maintain or enforce them, according to the RAC.

The only local authorities with the power to currently enforce moving traffic offences in England and Wales are Transport for London (TfL), the London boroughs and Cardiff Council.

On TfL's red routes, PCNs are £160, reduced to £80 if paid within 14 days.

An investigation by the RAC in 2020 found that London and Cardiff raked in £31.4million in the 2018/19 financial year after issuing more than half a million PCNs for yellow box infringements.

RAC head of roads policy Nicholas Lyes said: "In the absence of definitive guidance on the design, maintenance and enforcement of box junctions, there will be a high degree of confusion among drivers and local authorities.

"It could lead to an avalanche of penalty charge notices being wrongly issued and then having to be appealed.

"This will inevitably lead to an unnecessarily high number of appeals for local authorities to review, as well as some poor outcomes for drivers.

"We have written to the Department for Transport asking them to update the guidance to make it clear to local authorities what the minimum standard for design and condition of a box junction should be before letting enforcement begin.

"However, they are adamant the present guidance is sufficient."
'CONFUSION'

He said "countless wrong fines" will be issued if the changes go ahead.

"We are worried that failing to update guidance to include the lessons learnt from more than 15 years of enforcement in London will lead to countless wrong fines being issued, no end of unnecessary stress for drivers who feel they have been unfairly treated and thousands of wasted council hours investigating appeals," he said.

"It's absolutely crucial that yellow box junctions are enforced fairly and, as things stand, this may not be the case, which will mean many drivers will be treated poorly and lose out financially as a result."

A DfT spokeswoman said: "These new powers are designed to improve cycle safety, air quality and support of bus services.

"It's for local authorities to enforce them and ensure they meet local needs."

https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/18132698/drivers-fine-yellow-box-warning-junction/?utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=sunmotorsfacebook&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1648800187-1

Re: Drivers warned to expect an ‘avalanche’ of fines after major change to yellow box rules

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Subject: Re:_Drivers_warned_to_expect_an_‘avalanche’_of_f
ines_after_major_change_to_yellow_box_rules
From: cmike8...@gmail.com (Mike Collins)
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 by: Mike Collins - Sat, 2 Apr 2022 07:49 UTC

On Friday, 1 April 2022 at 14:24:16 UTC+1, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
> "A DfT spokeswoman said: "These new powers are designed to improve cycle safety, air quality and support of bus services."
>
> DRIVERS are being warned to expect an "avalanche" of fines after a major change to yellow box junction rules.
>
> Councils across England will soon be able to issue fees for moving traffic offences, including making an illegal turn, driving the wrong way down a one-way street or 'misusing' a yellow box.
>
> The Government will take applications from councils, giving them the green light to issue penalty charge notices for these offences from June 1.
>
> But the RAC claims drivers will be unfairly punished unless the Department for Transport improves its design, maintenance and enforcement guidelines.
>
> Yellow boxes are used to ensure traffic flows smoothly through busy junctions.
>
> Motorists should only enter them when their exit is clear or they are waiting to turn right.
>
> But campaigners say many have "design flaws", such as being too large or having buildings or street furniture obstructing the view of where they end.
>
> The problems can cause drivers to be trapped through no fault of their own, they say.
>

I agree with this. What if you legally enter the box waiting to turn right and oncoming left turning traffic blocks your exit?

Re: Drivers warned to expect an ‘avalanche’ of fines after major change to yellow box rules

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From: jennings...@fastmail.fm (JNugent)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Subject: Re:_Drivers_warned_to_expect_an_‘avalanche
’_of_fines_after_major_change_to_yellow_box_rules
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 by: JNugent - Sat, 2 Apr 2022 09:45 UTC

On 02/04/2022 08:49 am, Mike Collins wrote:

> On Friday, 1 April 2022 at 14:24:16 UTC+1, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:

>> "A DfT spokeswoman said: "These new powers are designed to improve cycle safety, air quality and support of bus services."

What have bus services to do with it?

Buses are just other vehicles.

>> DRIVERS are being warned to expect an "avalanche" of fines after a major change to yellow box junction rules.
>> Councils across England will soon be able to issue fees for moving traffic offences, including making an illegal turn, driving the wrong way down a one-way street or 'misusing' a yellow box.
>> The Government will take applications from councils, giving them the green light to issue penalty charge notices for these offences from June 1.
>> But the RAC claims drivers will be unfairly punished unless the Department for Transport improves its design, maintenance and enforcement guidelines.
>> Yellow boxes are used to ensure traffic flows smoothly through busy junctions.
>> Motorists should only enter them when their exit is clear or they are waiting to turn right.
>> But campaigners say many have "design flaws", such as being too large or having buildings or street furniture obstructing the view of where they end.
>> The problems can cause drivers to be trapped through no fault of their own, they say.

> I agree with this. What if you legally enter the box waiting to turn right and oncoming left turning traffic blocks your exit?

You are allowed to wait in the box if you are turning right. The waiting
necessarily includes waiting for oncoming straight-through and oncoming
left-turning traffic.

Re: Drivers warned to expect an ‘avalanche’ of fines after major change to yellow box rules

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Subject: Re:_Drivers_warned_to_expect_an_‘avalanche’_of_f
ines_after_major_change_to_yellow_box_rules
From: swldxer1...@gmail.com (swldx...@gmail.com)
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 by: swldx...@gmail.com - Sat, 2 Apr 2022 10:30 UTC

On Saturday, April 2, 2022 at 8:49:47 AM UTC+1, Mike Collins wrote:
> On Friday, 1 April 2022 at 14:24:16 UTC+1, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
> > "A DfT spokeswoman said: "These new powers are designed to improve cycle safety, air quality and support of bus services."
> >
> > DRIVERS are being warned to expect an "avalanche" of fines after a major change to yellow box junction rules.
> >
> > Councils across England will soon be able to issue fees for moving traffic offences, including making an illegal turn, driving the wrong way down a one-way street or 'misusing' a yellow box.
> >
> > The Government will take applications from councils, giving them the green light to issue penalty charge notices for these offences from June 1.
> >
> > But the RAC claims drivers will be unfairly punished unless the Department for Transport improves its design, maintenance and enforcement guidelines.
> >
> > Yellow boxes are used to ensure traffic flows smoothly through busy junctions.
> >
> > Motorists should only enter them when their exit is clear or they are waiting to turn right.
> >
> > But campaigners say many have "design flaws", such as being too large or having buildings or street furniture obstructing the view of where they end.
> >
> > The problems can cause drivers to be trapped through no fault of their own, they say.
> >
> I agree with this. What if you legally enter the box waiting to turn right and oncoming left turning traffic blocks your exit?

How the hell can a box junction be "obscured" by buildings?
Usual driver wriggling.


aus+uk / uk.rec.cycling / Re: Drivers warned to expect an ‘avalanche’ of fines after major change to yellow box rules

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