Rocksolid Light

Welcome to novaBBS (click a section below)

mail  files  register  newsreader  groups  login

Message-ID:  

Never call a man a fool. Borrow from him.


aus+uk / uk.comp.os.linux / Re: Male Chauvinism Of Former Times

SubjectAuthor
* TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveJava Jive
+- Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveJ. P. Gilliver (John)
+* Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveNY
|+* Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveJava Jive
||`- Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveNY
|`* Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveJim Lesurf
| +* Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveJava Jive
| |`* Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveIndy Jess John
| | +* Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveJava Jive
| | |+- Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveIndy Jess John
| | |`* Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveJim Lesurf
| | | `* Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveJava Jive
| | |  +* Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveJ. P. Gilliver (John)
| | |  |`- Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveJim Lesurf
| | |  `- Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveJim Lesurf
| | `* Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveJim Lesurf
| |  `* Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveJ. P. Gilliver (John)
| |   +- Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveIndy Jess John
| |   +* Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveAndy Walker
| |   |`- Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveJim Lesurf
| |   +- Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveFolderol
| |   `- Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveJim Lesurf
| `- Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveGordon
`* Male Chauvinism Of Former Times (was: TOT: Public Version of FamilyJava Jive
 +- Re: Male Chauvinism Of Former Times (was: TOT: Public Version ofDavey
 +* Re: Male Chauvinism Of Former Times (was: TOT: Public Version of Family Archive)NY
 |+- Re: Male Chauvinism Of Former Times (was: TOT: Public Version ofFolderol
 |+* Re: Male Chauvinism Of Former Times (was: TOT: Public Version ofMB
 ||`* Re: Male Chauvinism Of Former TimesJava Jive
 || `* Re: Male Chauvinism Of Former TimesIan Jackson
 ||  `* Re: Male Chauvinism Of Former Timeswilliamwright
 ||   `- Re: Male Chauvinism Of Former Timesbad sector
 |+- Re: Male Chauvinism Of Former TimesJNugent
 |`- Re: Male Chauvinism Of Former Times (was: TOT: Public Version ofDavey
 `- Re: Male Chauvinism Of Former Times (was: TOT: Public Version ofbad sector

Pages:12
Re: Male Chauvinism Of Former Times (was: TOT: Public Version of Family Archive)

<t6qsaa$3je$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=772&group=uk.comp.os.linux#772

 copy link   Newsgroups: alt.os.linux uk.comp.os.linux alt.windows7.general alt.photography uk.tech.digital-tv
Path: i2pn2.org!rocksolid2!news.neodome.net!news.mixmin.net!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: me...@privacy.invalid (NY)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux,alt.windows7.general,alt.photography,uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Re: Male Chauvinism Of Former Times (was: TOT: Public Version of Family Archive)
Date: Fri, 27 May 2022 16:55:45 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 3
Message-ID: <t6qsaa$3je$1@dont-email.me>
References: <8qsapg1mutu0veu0t1u3fvuq066or69nds@4ax.com> <t6qiki$s3j$1@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
format=flowed;
charset="UTF-8";
reply-type=response
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Date: Fri, 27 May 2022 15:55:55 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="08bcdd41c3d50e11aecef7d59b893eae";
logging-data="3694"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/+sm+vWI5BJu1NzsxJeRtaT5LsvENI32g="
Cancel-Lock: sha1:0aqTNk9v6TCLhy85kXCAhYZPSIg=
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8089.726
In-Reply-To: <t6qiki$s3j$1@dont-email.me>
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8089.726
Importance: Normal
X-Antivirus: Avast (VPS 220527-2, 27/5/2022), Outbound message
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
 by: NY - Fri, 27 May 2022 15:55 UTC

"Java Jive" <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:t6qiki$s3j$1@dont-email.me...
> [Lest anyone mistakenly think I subscribe to this view, my mother was a
> WAAF driving instructor during WW2, and was the best driver in the family.
> I have made for our private use a map of the places we have photos of
> taken during Scottish holidays, the southernmost ones are Edinburgh and
> Dalry, the northernmost Gruinard Bay, featuring almost everywhere in
> between, though not the east coast, and of course we usually drove up from
> southern England to get there. Only now does it strike me how many
> hundreds of miles Ma, and later my stepfather, must have driven on these
> family holidays.]

And she'll have been taught (and taught others) to drive vehicles with no
synchromesh, and therefore to perform double-declutching. Anyone who can
master that skill deserves much kudos. Nowadays it is impossible to learn
true DDC to non-synchromesh standards because (virtually) all cars on the
road today have synchromesh on all gears so you have no way of knowing
whether or not you have matched the engine and gearbox speeds sufficiently
accurately for the gear to engage. No matter what you do, you can always
*engage* any gear - you could engage first at 70, as long as you don't let
the clutch up!!!!! Good drivers try to match the speeds when bringing up the
clutch *after* the gear had successfully engaged, so both plates are going
at the same speed, but that's a very different thing. Clutchless gearchanges
can be mastered, but in that case you have instant feedback: until you reach
the matching speed, the gear will not engage; once you reach the right speed
it slips in. In DDC, you are doing it offline: you have to hope that the
engine speed is correct, then disengage the engine (so you've no way of
making minor tweaks), and if it doesn't work you have to let the clutch up,
tweak the engine speed, declutch and try again: effectively you've got a
system with a delay in its feedback loop.

I did once have the misfortune to be a passenger in a car driven by someone
who had been driving for probably 20 years (she was not a new driver) and
she had the habit of coming right off the power, engaging the new gear,
letting the clutch up on an idling engine (with one hell of a lurch!) and
then applying power. I'd only been driving a few years but I'd been taught
the rudiments of rev-matching by my instructor (ex police Class 1
instructor) who was keen to show newly-passed drivers how to do it
"properly". Should I say anything? After she apologised after a particularly
bad lurch, I very tactfully suggested that maybe there was another way (I
avoided the word "better"!) which might reduce the lurches. She thought it
was her car and asked me to drive to see. Allowing for a couple of minutes
to get used to a strange car's clutch bite point and graunchy
gear-selection, I drove it "differently" and she was mystified. Without
saying "this is how you should do it", I described what I did, and there was
a wonderful moment of realisation and frustration "Ah, I didn't know you
could do that". Without a rev-counter, it's a bit more difficult to judge
the correct engine speed (with my present car I know that each change of
gear is roughly an increase/decrease of 500 rpm) but you can still do it my
engine note - at the very least keep the engine revs constant, and ideally
increase when changing down or decrease when changing up... anything but let
the engine revs fall to idling and let the clutch up on a "dead" engine.

There was an age and seniority issue (she was my manager) which is why I was
bending over backwards to be tactful and to avoid her feeling silly. Next
time I rode with her, she was fine, and she joked that she'd been
practicing. So it wasn't "typical woman driver" - it was just that she had
been taught very badly and had never experimented with doing things
differently to what she'd been taught. She was a people manager rather than
an engineer - maybe my scientific/engineering background made me more likely
to experiment "what if".

Re: Male Chauvinism Of Former Times (was: TOT: Public Version of Family Archive)

<20220527182338.6c6ab2e2@devuan>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=773&group=uk.comp.os.linux#773

 copy link   Newsgroups: alt.os.linux uk.comp.os.linux alt.windows7.general alt.photography uk.tech.digital-tv
Path: i2pn2.org!rocksolid2!news.neodome.net!news.mixmin.net!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: gene...@musically.me.uk (Folderol)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux,alt.windows7.general,alt.photography,uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Re: Male Chauvinism Of Former Times (was: TOT: Public Version of
Family Archive)
Date: Fri, 27 May 2022 18:23:38 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <20220527182338.6c6ab2e2@devuan>
References: <8qsapg1mutu0veu0t1u3fvuq066or69nds@4ax.com>
<t6qiki$s3j$1@dont-email.me>
<t6qsaa$3je$1@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="0af6504950af7e96b281d8eefe082354";
logging-data="31706"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+Y7bmg1XbU+vXnc36Xxz5lz/JdpcmeXvE="
Cancel-Lock: sha1:CZKfME6dIhUuW/May/ONUME5vCY=
X-Newsreader: Claws Mail 4.0.0 (GTK+ 3.24.33; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
 by: Folderol - Fri, 27 May 2022 17:23 UTC

On Fri, 27 May 2022 16:55:45 +0100
"NY" <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
<snip>

>There was an age and seniority issue (she was my manager) which is why I was
>bending over backwards to be tactful and to avoid her feeling silly. Next
>time I rode with her, she was fine, and she joked that she'd been
>practicing. So it wasn't "typical woman driver" - it was just that she had
>been taught very badly and had never experimented with doing things
>differently to what she'd been taught. She was a people manager rather than
>an engineer - maybe my scientific/engineering background made me more likely
>to experiment "what if".

During WW2 my Mum was cherry-picked from the land girls and trained as a
mechanic. By the end of that time she was able to drive and maintain any
non track-laying vehicle.

Afterwards, it wasn't until the mid 1950s that the family got a car and she
needed to get a license. In those days it was not unusual to just go for a test
without any driving lessons, and to the examiners amazement, she handled the car
near perfectly (in a rare moment of honesty, Dad admitted she drove better than
him). She was also the scourge of any motor mechanic who tried to con her :)

--
Basic

Re: Male Chauvinism Of Former Times (was: TOT: Public Version of Family Archive)

<t6r2k7$jia$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=774&group=uk.comp.os.linux#774

 copy link   Newsgroups: alt.os.linux uk.comp.os.linux alt.windows7.general alt.photography uk.tech.digital-tv
Path: i2pn2.org!rocksolid2!news.neodome.net!news.mixmin.net!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: MB...@nospam.net (MB)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux,alt.windows7.general,alt.photography,uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Re: Male Chauvinism Of Former Times (was: TOT: Public Version of
Family Archive)
Date: Fri, 27 May 2022 18:43:36 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <t6r2k7$jia$1@dont-email.me>
References: <8qsapg1mutu0veu0t1u3fvuq066or69nds@4ax.com>
<t6qiki$s3j$1@dont-email.me> <t6qsaa$3je$1@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Date: Fri, 27 May 2022 17:43:35 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="e91e842fc681092db6751c7df464c554";
logging-data="20042"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18jgT+y76u4Taj7sdZP9cou"
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/91.9.1
Cancel-Lock: sha1:OlOQOm7/Qp83HJlA8hnLl9NJ6+0=
In-Reply-To: <t6qsaa$3je$1@dont-email.me>
 by: MB - Fri, 27 May 2022 17:43 UTC

On 27/05/2022 16:55, NY wrote:
> Anyone who can
> master that skill deserves much kudos.

It is surprising how quickly you get used to it, I think our first
couple of Land Rovers at work needed it.

Re: Male Chauvinism Of Former Times

<t6rh83$rqb$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=775&group=uk.comp.os.linux#775

 copy link   Newsgroups: alt.os.linux uk.comp.os.linux alt.windows7.general alt.photography uk.tech.digital-tv
Path: i2pn2.org!rocksolid2!news.neodome.net!news.mixmin.net!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: jav...@evij.com.invalid (Java Jive)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux,alt.windows7.general,alt.photography,uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Re: Male Chauvinism Of Former Times
Date: Fri, 27 May 2022 22:53:08 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <t6rh83$rqb$1@dont-email.me>
References: <8qsapg1mutu0veu0t1u3fvuq066or69nds@4ax.com>
<t6qiki$s3j$1@dont-email.me> <t6qsaa$3je$1@dont-email.me>
<t6r2k7$jia$1@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Date: Fri, 27 May 2022 21:53:07 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="c4412ea05e0b41a53c106ee209ae5d5c";
logging-data="28491"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+MEUKbSgkb3HzUvNFyPdvTnJX5I0gzFRc="
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; Win64; x64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/68.4.2
Cancel-Lock: sha1:WMzYImLwwrQMQGI0MKIJexId53U=
In-Reply-To: <t6r2k7$jia$1@dont-email.me>
Content-Language: en-GB
 by: Java Jive - Fri, 27 May 2022 21:53 UTC

Re double de-clutching ...

On 27/05/2022 18:43, MB wrote:
>
> On 27/05/2022 16:55, NY wrote:
>> >> Anyone who can
>> master that skill deserves much kudos.
>
> It is surprising how quickly you get used to it, I think our first
> couple of Land Rovers at work needed it.

Yes, in the days I worked on farms, it was considered best practice to
DDC tractors. That is to say, they had a 'crash' gearbox, so could take
a bashing, but I was taught to DDC by the farm's foreman, and when you
got it just about right you could change gear without anything worse
than a satisfying 'clunk'!

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

Re: Male Chauvinism Of Former Times

<Xq7dAXC1shkiFwDF@brattleho.plus.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=776&group=uk.comp.os.linux#776

 copy link   Newsgroups: alt.os.linux uk.comp.os.linux alt.windows7.general alt.photography uk.tech.digital-tv
Path: i2pn2.org!rocksolid2!news.neodome.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: ianREMOV...@g3ohx.co.uk (Ian Jackson)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux,alt.windows7.general,alt.photography,uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Re: Male Chauvinism Of Former Times
Date: Sat, 28 May 2022 13:53:09 +0100
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <Xq7dAXC1shkiFwDF@brattleho.plus.com>
References: <8qsapg1mutu0veu0t1u3fvuq066or69nds@4ax.com>
<t6qiki$s3j$1@dont-email.me> <t6qsaa$3je$1@dont-email.me>
<t6r2k7$jia$1@dont-email.me> <t6rh83$rqb$1@dont-email.me>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed
X-Trace: individual.net eTaPli0bIuMywRnx3r6clgui2Jl2osTrB9A2VnVRzdjJwowR5D
X-Orig-Path: g3ohx.co.uk!ianREMOVETHISjackson
Cancel-Lock: sha1:0fu67OiznzwPqBn3tgp7wytw5F8=
User-Agent: Turnpike/6.07-S (<bkWqWe8zKPTXeMCj8NHoewBqex>)
X-Antivirus: AVG (VPS 220528-2, 28/05/2022), Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
 by: Ian Jackson - Sat, 28 May 2022 12:53 UTC

In message <t6rh83$rqb$1@dont-email.me>, Java Jive
<java@evij.com.invalid> writes
>Re double de-clutching ...
>
>On 27/05/2022 18:43, MB wrote:
>>
>> On 27/05/2022 16:55, NY wrote:
>>> >> Anyone who can
>>> master that skill deserves much kudos.
>> It is surprising how quickly you get used to it, I think our first
>>couple of Land Rovers at work needed it.
>
>Yes, in the days I worked on farms, it was considered best practice to
>DDC tractors. That is to say, they had a 'crash' gearbox, so could
>take a bashing, but I was taught to DDC by the farm's foreman, and when
>you got it just about right you could change gear without anything
>worse than a satisfying 'clunk'!
>
60 years ago I learned to drive on a car with (deliberately) no
synchromesh on 1st, and needed to know how to double-declutch. I still
do it (although the actual accuracy my rev matching is rather
questionable!). With some cars I could drive without using the clutch
(very useful when, say, the hydraulics had failed - although starting
off and stopping was a bit scary) - but modern cars won't let you do
this.
--
Ian

Re: Male Chauvinism Of Former Times

<jfelncFsr5rU1@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=777&group=uk.comp.os.linux#777

 copy link   Newsgroups: alt.os.linux uk.comp.os.linux alt.windows7.general alt.photography uk.tech.digital-tv
Path: i2pn2.org!rocksolid2!news.neodome.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: wrightsa...@f2s.com (williamwright)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux,alt.windows7.general,alt.photography,uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Re: Male Chauvinism Of Former Times
Date: Sat, 28 May 2022 14:17:32 +0100
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <jfelncFsr5rU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <8qsapg1mutu0veu0t1u3fvuq066or69nds@4ax.com>
<t6qiki$s3j$1@dont-email.me> <t6qsaa$3je$1@dont-email.me>
<t6r2k7$jia$1@dont-email.me> <t6rh83$rqb$1@dont-email.me>
<Xq7dAXC1shkiFwDF@brattleho.plus.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Trace: individual.net 1zRWhEuXh5sNhMsci2peTA1tZRLewochjGfhWHfEqORUm2+bRn
Cancel-Lock: sha1:4SoJMAYRYQOBeXUpPpPsR0j9rvk=
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/91.9.1
Content-Language: en-GB
In-Reply-To: <Xq7dAXC1shkiFwDF@brattleho.plus.com>
 by: williamwright - Sat, 28 May 2022 13:17 UTC

On 28/05/2022 13:53, Ian Jackson wrote:
> In message <t6rh83$rqb$1@dont-email.me>, Java Jive
> <java@evij.com.invalid> writes
>> Re double de-clutching ...
>>
>> On 27/05/2022 18:43, MB wrote:
>>>
>>> On 27/05/2022 16:55, NY wrote:
>>>> >> Anyone who can
>>>> master that skill deserves much kudos.
>>>  It is surprising how quickly you get used to it, I think our first
>>> couple of Land Rovers at work needed it.
>>
>> Yes, in the days I worked on farms, it was considered best practice to
>> DDC tractors.  That is to say, they had a 'crash' gearbox, so could
>> take a bashing, but I was taught to DDC by the farm's foreman, and
>> when you got it just about right you could change gear without
>> anything worse than a satisfying 'clunk'!
>>
> 60 years ago I learned to drive on a car with (deliberately) no
> synchromesh on 1st, and needed to know how to double-declutch. I still
> do it (although the actual accuracy my rev matching is rather
> questionable!). With some cars I could drive without using the clutch
> (very useful when, say, the hydraulics had failed - although starting
> off and stopping was a bit scary) - but modern cars won't let you do this.

I learnt to drive on a 1948 Morris ambulance. I always double declutch.
Very useful for steep hills and that. I heel and toe as well. I've never
worn a clutch out. When I bought my (1990) tractor the young bloke said,
"Don't try to change gear while you're moving coz it can't be done.
Select a gear and ratio then set off." I found that I could change gear
whilst moving with no trouble.

Bill (smug)

Re: Male Chauvinism Of Former Times

<vNCdndFWrfh7tw__nZ2dnUU7-fXNnZ2d@giganews.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=778&group=uk.comp.os.linux#778

 copy link   Newsgroups: alt.os.linux uk.comp.os.linux alt.windows7.general alt.photography uk.tech.digital-tv
Path: i2pn2.org!rocksolid2!news.neodome.net!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!news.misty.com!border2.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!buffer2.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!buffer1.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!news.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 28 May 2022 09:00:06 -0500
Date: Sat, 28 May 2022 10:00:06 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/91.9.1
Subject: Re: Male Chauvinism Of Former Times
Content-Language: hu
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux,alt.windows7.general,alt.photography,uk.tech.digital-tv
References: <8qsapg1mutu0veu0t1u3fvuq066or69nds@4ax.com>
<t6qiki$s3j$1@dont-email.me> <t6qsaa$3je$1@dont-email.me>
<t6r2k7$jia$1@dont-email.me> <t6rh83$rqb$1@dont-email.me>
<Xq7dAXC1shkiFwDF@brattleho.plus.com> <jfelncFsr5rU1@mid.individual.net>
From: forget...@postit_INVALID_.gov (bad sector)
In-Reply-To: <jfelncFsr5rU1@mid.individual.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Message-ID: <vNCdndFWrfh7tw__nZ2dnUU7-fXNnZ2d@giganews.com>
Lines: 28
X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com
X-Trace: sv3-cuxss9sB7JLFPHz0MmOxW9N7SiNsHFYp3WFE54gv6idiehceCkdm3YIjYLOb3tsjR0j5qDXFSAzZHVP!I5IUmiYOt8r1vpfLI3nQrx6c9e3m1EulHRY8DZOCxZaxCz2RFR5/5bQcyJtN+mW7Pxzf90gytwMg!rw==
X-Complaints-To: abuse@giganews.com
X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly
X-Postfilter: 1.3.40
X-Original-Bytes: 3604
 by: bad sector - Sat, 28 May 2022 14:00 UTC

On 5/28/22 09:17, williamwright wrote:
> On 28/05/2022 13:53, Ian Jackson wrote:
>> In message <t6rh83$rqb$1@dont-email.me>, Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> writes
>>> Re double de-clutching ...
>>>
>>> On 27/05/2022 18:43, MB wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 27/05/2022 16:55, NY wrote:
>>>>> >> Anyone who can
>>>>> master that skill deserves much kudos.
>>>>  It is surprising how quickly you get used to it, I think our first couple of Land Rovers at work needed it.
>>>
>>> Yes, in the days I worked on farms, it was considered best practice to DDC tractors.  That is to say, they had a 'crash' gearbox, so could take a bashing, but I was taught to DDC by the farm's foreman, and when you got it just about right you could change gear without anything worse than a satisfying 'clunk'!
>>>
>> 60 years ago I learned to drive on a car with (deliberately) no synchromesh on 1st, and needed to know how to double-declutch. I still do it (although the actual accuracy my rev matching is rather questionable!). With some cars I could drive without using the clutch (very useful when, say, the hydraulics had failed - although starting off and stopping was a bit scary) - but modern cars won't let you do this.
>
> I learnt to drive on a 1948 Morris ambulance. I always double declutch. Very useful for steep hills and that. I heel and toe as well. I've never worn a clutch out. When I bought my (1990) tractor the young bloke said, "Don't try to change gear while you're moving coz it can't be done. Select a gear and ratio then set off." I found that I could change gear whilst moving with no trouble.
>
> Bill (smug)

I learned on a '55 ford truck on the farm, it seldom needed double-clutching but I honed the skill to perfection only because it gave me a chance to rev the engine in a skill show-off while coasting in an otherwise idle turn into the ice-cream parlor parking where the 'action' was. In them days if you were tall enough for your head to be seen over the city-hall counter and held $2 high you got an unlimited driver's licence, just like that. If you didn't get one as soon as thus qualified you was called names...

Re: Male Chauvinism Of Former Times

<jfepkiFtja4U1@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=779&group=uk.comp.os.linux#779

 copy link   Newsgroups: alt.os.linux uk.comp.os.linux alt.windows7.general alt.photography uk.tech.digital-tv
Path: i2pn2.org!rocksolid2!news.neodome.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: jennings...@fastmail.fm (JNugent)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux,alt.windows7.general,alt.photography,uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Re: Male Chauvinism Of Former Times
Date: Sat, 28 May 2022 15:24:18 +0100
Organization: Home User
Lines: 70
Message-ID: <jfepkiFtja4U1@mid.individual.net>
References: <8qsapg1mutu0veu0t1u3fvuq066or69nds@4ax.com>
<t6qiki$s3j$1@dont-email.me> <t6qsaa$3je$1@dont-email.me>
Reply-To: jennings&co@fastmail.fm
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Trace: individual.net ljmigoI5/TMyLAtgTXnH3QzglTYMkn3Fdrj4QEap/JQpDU4UL+
Cancel-Lock: sha1:xT7lJsSxqPfllO/pP3APPmpXws4=
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/60.6.1
In-Reply-To: <t6qsaa$3je$1@dont-email.me>
Content-Language: en-GB
X-Antivirus: AVG (VPS 220528-2, 5/28/2022), Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
 by: JNugent - Sat, 28 May 2022 14:24 UTC

On 27/05/2022 04:55 pm, NY wrote:
> "Java Jive" <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote in message
> news:t6qiki$s3j$1@dont-email.me...
>> [Lest anyone mistakenly think I subscribe to this view, my mother was
>> a WAAF driving instructor during WW2, and was the best driver in the
>> family. I have made for our private use a map of the places we have
>> photos of taken during  Scottish holidays, the southernmost ones are
>> Edinburgh and Dalry, the northernmost Gruinard Bay, featuring almost
>> everywhere in between, though not the east coast, and of course we
>> usually drove up from southern England to get there.  Only now does it
>> strike me how many hundreds of miles Ma, and later my stepfather, must
>> have driven on these family holidays.]
>
> And she'll have been taught (and taught others) to drive vehicles with
> no synchromesh, and therefore to perform double-declutching. Anyone who
> can master that skill deserves much kudos. Nowadays it is impossible to
> learn true DDC to non-synchromesh standards because (virtually) all cars
> on the road today have synchromesh on all gears so you have no way of
> knowing whether or not you have matched the engine and gearbox speeds
> sufficiently accurately for the gear to engage. No matter what you do,
> you can always *engage* any gear - you could engage first at 70, as long
> as you don't let the clutch up!!!!! Good drivers try to match the speeds
> when bringing up the clutch *after* the gear had successfully engaged,
> so both plates are going at the same speed, but that's a very different
> thing. Clutchless gearchanges can be mastered, but in that case you have
> instant feedback: until you reach the matching speed, the gear will not
> engage; once you reach the right speed it slips in. In DDC, you are
> doing it offline: you have to hope that the engine speed is correct,
> then disengage the engine (so you've no way of making minor tweaks), and
> if it doesn't work you have to let the clutch up, tweak the engine
> speed, declutch and try again: effectively you've got a system with a
> delay in its feedback loop.
>
> I did once have the misfortune to be a passenger in a car driven by
> someone who had been driving for probably 20 years (she was not a new
> driver) and she had the habit of coming right off the power, engaging
> the new gear, letting the clutch up on an idling engine (with one hell
> of a lurch!) and then applying power. I'd only been driving a few years
> but I'd been taught the rudiments of rev-matching by my instructor (ex
> police Class 1 instructor) who was keen to show newly-passed drivers how
> to do it "properly". Should I say anything? After she apologised after a
> particularly bad lurch, I very tactfully suggested that maybe there was
> another way (I avoided the word "better"!) which might reduce the
> lurches. She thought it was her car and asked me to drive to see.
> Allowing for a couple of minutes to get used to a strange car's clutch
> bite point and graunchy gear-selection, I drove it "differently" and she
> was mystified. Without saying "this is how you should do it", I
> described what I did, and there was a wonderful moment of realisation
> and frustration "Ah, I didn't know you could do that". Without a
> rev-counter, it's a bit more difficult to judge the correct engine speed
> (with my present car I know that each change of gear is roughly an
> increase/decrease of 500 rpm) but you can still do it my engine note -
> at the very least keep the engine revs constant, and ideally increase
> when changing down or decrease when changing up... anything but let the
> engine revs fall to idling and let the clutch up on a "dead" engine.
>
> There was an age and seniority issue (she was my manager) which is why I
> was bending over backwards to be tactful and to avoid her feeling silly.
> Next time I rode with her, she was fine, and she joked that she'd been
> practicing. So it wasn't "typical woman driver" - it was just that she
> had been taught very badly and had never experimented with doing things
> differently to what she'd been taught. She was a people manager rather
> than an engineer - maybe my scientific/engineering background made me
> more likely to experiment "what if".

The cars I learned in (and tended to own for the first few years after
passing my test) invariably didn't have synchromesh on 1st gear and
often, it was badly-worn on 2nd, meaning that double-declutching was a
necessary skill if you needed to change down that low whilst on the move.

Re: Male Chauvinism Of Former Times (was: TOT: Public Version of Family Archive)

<PZadnTufboJEqw__nZ2dnUU7-VvNnZ2d@giganews.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=780&group=uk.comp.os.linux#780

 copy link   Newsgroups: alt.os.linux uk.comp.os.linux alt.windows7.general alt.photography uk.tech.digital-tv
Path: i2pn2.org!rocksolid2!news.neodome.net!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!news.misty.com!border2.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!buffer2.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!buffer1.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!news.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 28 May 2022 09:51:05 -0500
Date: Sat, 28 May 2022 10:51:05 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/91.9.1
Subject: Re: Male Chauvinism Of Former Times (was: TOT: Public Version of
Family Archive)
Content-Language: hu
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux,alt.windows7.general,alt.photography,uk.tech.digital-tv
References: <8qsapg1mutu0veu0t1u3fvuq066or69nds@4ax.com>
<t6qiki$s3j$1@dont-email.me>
From: forget...@postit_INVALID_.gov (bad sector)
In-Reply-To: <t6qiki$s3j$1@dont-email.me>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Message-ID: <PZadnTufboJEqw__nZ2dnUU7-VvNnZ2d@giganews.com>
Lines: 25
X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com
X-Trace: sv3-xv5ZZgkeEXwIy/6sfCqsM3ZAuvfw7xpVyVJbtriIuenHh8n3H69nJSaJmBh9y6D3eCCenoSKd3kDzpF!qXWHGX5rscAsfsI8VxklWXXwO0vSjWyf7p0uy9TcQCe3XDI3WoK94qrdF+HP5ny+8wYWZKzy4w4v!Pw==
X-Complaints-To: abuse@giganews.com
X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly
X-Postfilter: 1.3.40
X-Original-Bytes: 2995
 by: bad sector - Sat, 28 May 2022 14:51 UTC

On 5/27/22 09:10, Java Jive wrote:
> On 17/11/2021 21:26, Java Jive wrote:
>> [For obvious reasons, this is a deliberate cross-post.]
>>
>> Many people in these ngs over the last year or two have been kind
>> enough to help me with useful advice as I have struggled to scan my
>> way through a trunkful of family documents going back to a parchment
>> (animal skin) from the reign of Queen Anne.  While not yet complete
>> (will it ever be?), a major milestone has been reached today with the
>> release of an archive to the general public.  For those interested,
>> it's here:
>>
>> http://www.macfh.co.uk/Macfarlane/FamilyHistory/FamilyHistory.shtml

that's not bad, actually!

>> Thanks again to all who have contributed their advice.
>
> Currently at my brother's, picking up the next batch of work on this (about the same gargantuan amount again, I fear!), and one of the first things I find is the following old-fashioned joke printed on a slip of paper:
>
>   "If your wife wants to learn to drive, don't stand in her way."

I'm working on something similar but am going against the grain by using 'iconized' art instead of the historical encre-et-plume drawings. After all the original purpose was easy and positive identification from a distance on the battle-field, very much resembling the definition of a graphical icon as a symbol that provides unique identification in the smallest possible number of pixels (even if many pixels be used in production). I'm looking for a graphic artist to clean-up one of my own iconized elements, an open-helmet used in the day to convey something akin to 'a lack of unconditional hostility' :-))

Re: Male Chauvinism Of Former Times (was: TOT: Public Version of Family Archive)

<u1372k$2jlvd$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=984&group=uk.comp.os.linux#984

 copy link   Newsgroups: alt.os.linux uk.comp.os.linux alt.windows7.general alt.photography uk.tech.digital-tv
Path: i2pn2.org!rocksolid2!news.neodome.net!news.mixmin.net!eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: dav...@example.invalid (Davey)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux,alt.windows7.general,alt.photography,uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Re: Male Chauvinism Of Former Times (was: TOT: Public Version of
Family Archive)
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2023 09:51:32 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <u1372k$2jlvd$1@dont-email.me>
References: <8qsapg1mutu0veu0t1u3fvuq066or69nds@4ax.com>
<t6qiki$s3j$1@dont-email.me>
<t6qsaa$3je$1@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2023 08:51:32 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="953b7d0c34112234d325a4297769fc86";
logging-data="2742253"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+b5lP7AHpnzSj6Yycc6fMV"
Cancel-Lock: sha1:lxRfotPoDN11BwVbuq33kcTfaJM=
X-Newsreader: Claws Mail 3.16.0 (GTK+ 2.24.32; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
 by: Davey - Tue, 11 Apr 2023 08:51 UTC

On Fri, 27 May 2022 16:55:45 +0100
"NY" <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:

> I did once have the misfortune to be a passenger in a car driven by
> someone who had been driving for probably 20 years (she was not a new
> driver) and she had the habit of coming right off the power, engaging
> the new gear, letting the clutch up on an idling engine (with one
> hell of a lurch!) and then applying power. I'd only been driving a
> few years but I'd been taught the rudiments of rev-matching by my
> instructor (ex police Class 1 instructor) who was keen to show
> newly-passed drivers how to do it "properly". Should I say anything?
> After she apologised after a particularly bad lurch, I very tactfully
> suggested that maybe there was another way (I avoided the word
> "better"!) which might reduce the lurches. She thought it was her car
> and asked me to drive to see. Allowing for a couple of minutes to get
> used to a strange car's clutch bite point and graunchy
> gear-selection, I drove it "differently" and she was mystified.
>

I had a similar experience, as a passenger in a fellow student's Cortina
Estate. Every gearchange terminated in a 'Bang' as the clutch was just
drop released, with no attempt to match engine speed. Luckily it was
only one short journey, and I often wondered how long the clutch and
even the gearbox lasted after all that terrible treatment.
I sympathised with the car, even though I had no great love for Fords.

--
Davey.

Pages:12
server_pubkey.txt

rocksolid light 0.9.7
clearnet tor