I have an Edis sub woofer that has been behaving badly and has blown
transistors and now refuses to come on due to a protection circuit. When a
friend who is used to circuit repairs had a look he found that the brown
gunge used on the pcbs to secure the non surface mount components was
measured some of it was almost a short circuit in places as if over time its
become that way and eventually resulted in the weird faults I've been
getting. Has anyone else encountered this?
I remember some years back an old Sony portable cassette deck started to
rustle an crackle, and that was traced to a similar red compound used to
secure a slide switch, this time it was red in colour, and after removing it
and using araldite to stabilise it a bit all was well, until it started to
afflict other switches and sockets and we had to call it a day, but by then
it was mechanically wearing out so no real surprise.
Weird, you would think that they would make sure such glues were stable
over time?
Brian

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On Fri, 8 Oct 2021 16:55:07 +0100, "Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)"
<briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

>I have an Edis sub woofer that has been behaving badly and has blown
>transistors and now refuses to come on due to a protection circuit. When a
>friend who is used to circuit repairs had a look he found that the brown
>gunge used on the pcbs to secure the non surface mount components was
>measured some of it was almost a short circuit in places as if over time its
>become that way and eventually resulted in the weird faults I've been
>getting. Has anyone else encountered this?
> I remember some years back an old Sony portable cassette deck started to
>rustle an crackle, and that was traced to a similar red compound used to
>secure a slide switch, this time it was red in colour, and after removing it
>and using araldite to stabilise it a bit all was well, until it started to
>afflict other switches and sockets and we had to call it a day, but by then
>it was mechanically wearing out so no real surprise.
> Weird, you would think that they would make sure such glues were stable
>over time?
> Brian

There are a few glues from back then that degraded and became
conductive over time, and they only solution is to dig them out and
replace them. Unfortunately such substances are vital in a subwoofer
if you are not to end up with a heap of capacitors lying in the bottom
of the cabinet.

d

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On 9/10/2021 2:55 am, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
> I have an Edis sub woofer that has been behaving badly and has blown
> transistors and now refuses to come on due to a protection circuit. When a
> friend who is used to circuit repairs had a look he found that the brown
> gunge used on the pcbs to secure the non surface mount components was
> measured some of it was almost a short circuit in places as if over time its
> become that way and eventually resulted in the weird faults I've been
> getting. Has anyone else encountered this?
> I remember some years back an old Sony portable cassette deck started to
> rustle an crackle, and that was traced to a similar red compound used to
> secure a slide switch, this time it was red in colour, and after removing it
> and using araldite to stabilise it a bit all was well, until it started to
> afflict other switches and sockets and we had to call it a day, but by then
> it was mechanically wearing out so no real surprise.
> Weird, you would think that they would make sure such glues were stable
> over time?
> Brian
>

**You'd think. The glue is a kind of contact adhesive and has been known
for several decades to become hygroscopic over time. Whenever I see it
in a product that lands on my bench, I remove it. One of the earliest
examples I saw, when when it was used in an Akai amplifier, in the SMPS,
back in 1980-ish. The designer chose to use this stuff in the HVDC part
of the the power supply! What a disaster. I've seen it many times and,
in bad cases, I've noted that the leads on some components have
disintegrated, where the glue touches it. Fortunately, most
manufacturers now use a silicon based adhesive, which does not become
hygroscopic over time.

Trevor Wilson wrote:
=================
>
> >
> ** The glue is a kind of contact adhesive and has been known
> for several decades to become hygroscopic over time.

** I doubt this is strictly true.

I have dealt with dozens of cases of conductive glue trouble - it
used to be always yellow ( hence the name "yellow peril" ) but later black other colours appeared.
First came across it in Roland Cube instrument amps - it made the reverb crackle badly.

In virtually all cases, places where the glue changed from insulating to conductive and corrosive were *hot* spots.
Yellow glue would turn brown or even black when this occurred.
Clean up and repair is very tedious and maybe uneconomic.

That this has been going on steadily for 40 years in many different factories is an indictment of Asian manufacturing.
When famous brand names send manufacture off shore to *lowest bid* sub contractors - they lose all control over the process.
Long as what come back works well enough to sell - it is deemed to be perfect.

ZERO information about how it fares years later ever gets back to Asia.
And they would not give a shit anyway.

....... Phil

On Fri, 8 Oct 2021 14:08:26 -0700 (PDT), Phil Allison
<pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:

>Trevor Wilson wrote:
>=================
>>
>> >
>> ** The glue is a kind of contact adhesive and has been known
>> for several decades to become hygroscopic over time.
>
>** I doubt this is strictly true.
>
>I have dealt with dozens of cases of conductive glue trouble - it
>used to be always yellow ( hence the name "yellow peril" ) but later black other colours appeared.
>First came across it in Roland Cube instrument amps - it made the reverb crackle badly.
>
>In virtually all cases, places where the glue changed from insulating to conductive and corrosive were *hot* spots.
>Yellow glue would turn brown or even black when this occurred.
>Clean up and repair is very tedious and maybe uneconomic.
>
>That this has been going on steadily for 40 years in many different factories is an indictment of Asian manufacturing.
>When famous brand names send manufacture off shore to *lowest bid* sub contractors - they lose all control over the process.
>Long as what come back works well enough to sell - it is deemed to be perfect.
>
>ZERO information about how it fares years later ever gets back to Asia.
>And they would not give a shit anyway.
>
>
>...... Phil

Your fellow Aussie Dave Jones has a few videos on the subject.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dftkoD7LG0A

d

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Don Pearce wrote:
================
>
> >
> >I have dealt with dozens of cases of conductive glue trouble - it
> >used to be always yellow ( hence the name "yellow peril" ) but later black other colours appeared.
> >First came across it in Roland Cube instrument amps - it made the reverb crackle badly.
> >
> >In virtually all cases, places where the glue changed from insulating to conductive and corrosive were *hot* spots.
> >Yellow glue would turn brown or even black when this occurred.
> >Clean up and repair is very tedious and maybe uneconomic.
> >
> >That this has been going on steadily for 40 years in many different factories is an indictment of Asian manufacturing.
> >When famous brand names send manufacture off shore to *lowest bid* sub contractors - they lose all control over the process.
> >Long as what come back works well enough to sell - it is deemed to be perfect.
> >
> >ZERO information about how it fares years later ever gets back to Asia.
> >And they would not give a shit anyway.
> >
> Your fellow Aussie Dave Jones has a few videos on the subject.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dftkoD7LG0A

** Shame the guy is a total jerk.

FYI I know him personally and his pal Doug Ford.

....... Phil

Yes I did sort of think that, but also of course even if it dones not fall
apart, it might rattle not a good sound either. I'm told that most of these
amps tend to be off the shelf devices and seldom built by the speaker
company, as the filters and stuff like that are all on a separate pcb,
clearly of different manufacture.

Maybe it might be better to source a new amp module but I bet after this
time they don't make the same model and it would not fit!
Brian

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Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Don Pearce" <spam@spam.com> wrote in message
news:61607686.27377062@news.eternal-september.org...
> On Fri, 8 Oct 2021 16:55:07 +0100, "Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)"
> <briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>I have an Edis sub woofer that has been behaving badly and has blown
>>transistors and now refuses to come on due to a protection circuit. When a
>>friend who is used to circuit repairs had a look he found that the brown
>>gunge used on the pcbs to secure the non surface mount components was
>>measured some of it was almost a short circuit in places as if over time
>>its
>>become that way and eventually resulted in the weird faults I've been
>>getting. Has anyone else encountered this?
>> I remember some years back an old Sony portable cassette deck started to
>>rustle an crackle, and that was traced to a similar red compound used to
>>secure a slide switch, this time it was red in colour, and after removing
>>it
>>and using araldite to stabilise it a bit all was well, until it started to
>>afflict other switches and sockets and we had to call it a day, but by
>>then
>>it was mechanically wearing out so no real surprise.
>> Weird, you would think that they would make sure such glues were stable
>>over time?
>> Brian
>
> There are a few glues from back then that degraded and became
> conductive over time, and they only solution is to dig them out and
> replace them. Unfortunately such substances are vital in a subwoofer
> if you are not to end up with a heap of capacitors lying in the bottom
> of the cabinet.
>
> d
>
> --
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>

Hmm, well my friend says even the leads from the mains transformer where
they run along the top of the pcb and are soldered through it have gone very
blackened and the obvious culprit is the glue.
So much for life testing materials.

On a completely different substance, my late mother had a propagation
heated device with sliding doors at the front. These were glass and the
sides Plexiglas, but the top which was slightly domed was some other
transparent material. In the heat during the summer the frame was in the
greenhouse but not in use. I was standing their filling up the water tanks
when there was a huge bang and a smell of burning cellulose. Looking around
I saw the whole top of the cold frame was missing and a wisp of smoke was
rising from a small mangled blackened piece of what was the lid lying in the
bottom of the propagator. One might have thought that the trigger point for
this reaction should have been much higher than the 40 degrees or so in the
greenhouse, but it just goes to show that even good quality makers of
things can easily miss the bleedin obvious!

Brian

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Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Trevor Wilson" <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:isbdk4Fdn5dU1@mid.individual.net...
> On 9/10/2021 2:55 am, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
>> I have an Edis sub woofer that has been behaving badly and has blown
>> transistors and now refuses to come on due to a protection circuit. When
>> a
>> friend who is used to circuit repairs had a look he found that the brown
>> gunge used on the pcbs to secure the non surface mount components was
>> measured some of it was almost a short circuit in places as if over time
>> its
>> become that way and eventually resulted in the weird faults I've been
>> getting. Has anyone else encountered this?
>> I remember some years back an old Sony portable cassette deck started
>> to
>> rustle an crackle, and that was traced to a similar red compound used to
>> secure a slide switch, this time it was red in colour, and after removing
>> it
>> and using araldite to stabilise it a bit all was well, until it started
>> to
>> afflict other switches and sockets and we had to call it a day, but by
>> then
>> it was mechanically wearing out so no real surprise.
>> Weird, you would think that they would make sure such glues were stable
>> over time?
>> Brian
>>
>
> **You'd think. The glue is a kind of contact adhesive and has been known
> for several decades to become hygroscopic over time. Whenever I see it in
> a product that lands on my bench, I remove it. One of the earliest
> examples I saw, when when it was used in an Akai amplifier, in the SMPS,
> back in 1980-ish. The designer chose to use this stuff in the HVDC part of
> the the power supply! What a disaster. I've seen it many times and, in bad
> cases, I've noted that the leads on some components have disintegrated,
> where the glue touches it. Fortunately, most manufacturers now use a
> silicon based adhesive, which does not become hygroscopic over time.

Don Pearce Lunatic Pommy Garbage wrote:
===============================
Phil A wrote:
------------------
> >
> >> >I have dealt with dozens of cases of conductive glue trouble - it
> >> >used to be always yellow ( hence the name "yellow peril" ) but later black other colours appeared.
> >> >First came across it in Roland Cube instrument amps - it made the reverb crackle badly.
> >> >
> >> >In virtually all cases, places where the glue changed from insulating to conductive and corrosive were *hot* spots.
> >> >Yellow glue would turn brown or even black when this occurred.
> >> >Clean up and repair is very tedious and maybe uneconomic.
> >> >
> >> >That this has been going on steadily for 40 years in many different factories is an indictment of Asian manufacturing.
> >> >When famous brand names send manufacture off shore to *lowest bid* sub contractors - they lose all control over the process.
> >> >Long as what come back works well enough to sell - it is deemed to be perfect.
> >> >
> >> >ZERO information about how it fares years later ever gets back to Asia.
> >> >And they would not give a shit anyway.
>>
> >>
> >> Your fellow Aussie Dave Jones has a few videos on the subject.
> >>
> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dftkoD7LG0A
> >
> >
> >** Shame the guy is a total jerk.
> >
> > FYI I know him personally and his pal Doug Ford.
> >
> >
> So much for the ad hominem.
>

** What an idiotic * misuse * of that tired old term.
Fair comment is not an " ad hominem" attack.

> How about the issue at hand?

** Even more pathetic drivel from a desperate, know nothing LIAR.

FOAD shithead.

On Sat, 9 Oct 2021 03:31:30 -0700 (PDT), Phil Allison
<pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:

>Don Pearce Lunatic Pommy Garbage wrote:
>===============================
>Phil A wrote:
>------------------
>> >
>> >> >I have dealt with dozens of cases of conductive glue trouble - it
>> >> >used to be always yellow ( hence the name "yellow peril" ) but later black other colours appeared.
>> >> >First came across it in Roland Cube instrument amps - it made the reverb crackle badly.
>> >> >
>> >> >In virtually all cases, places where the glue changed from insulating to conductive and corrosive were *hot* spots.
>> >> >Yellow glue would turn brown or even black when this occurred.
>> >> >Clean up and repair is very tedious and maybe uneconomic.
>> >> >
>> >> >That this has been going on steadily for 40 years in many different factories is an indictment of Asian manufacturing.
>> >> >When famous brand names send manufacture off shore to *lowest bid* sub contractors - they lose all control over the process.
>> >> >Long as what come back works well enough to sell - it is deemed to be perfect.
>> >> >
>> >> >ZERO information about how it fares years later ever gets back to Asia.
>> >> >And they would not give a shit anyway.
>>>
>> >>
>> >> Your fellow Aussie Dave Jones has a few videos on the subject.
>> >>
>> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dftkoD7LG0A
>> >
>> >
>> >** Shame the guy is a total jerk.
>> >
>> > FYI I know him personally and his pal Doug Ford.
>> >
>> >
>> So much for the ad hominem.
>>
>
>** What an idiotic * misuse * of that tired old term.
>
> Fair comment is not an " ad hominem" attack.
>
>> How about the issue at hand?
>
>** Even more pathetic drivel from a desperate, know nothing LIAR.
>
> FOAD shithead.
>
>
>
>
And normal service has resumed.

d

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In article <36548ef9-f3e5-4cd3-9bcd-f232b361bd9en@googlegroups.com>, Phil
Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:
> When famous brand names send manufacture off shore to *lowest bid* sub
> contractors - they lose all control over the process. Long as what
> come back works well enough to sell - it is deemed to be perfect.

And all too often the makers are quite happy for it to fail and be deemed
'unrepairable' after 5 years or so, in order for them to sell you their
'new' model.

Ditto for making units difficult to repair and not providing special parts
as spares, etc.

JIm

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

Jim Lesurf wrote:
=================
Phil Allison <palli...@gmail.com> wrote:
<<
> > When famous brand names send manufacture off shore to *lowest bid* sub
> > contractors - they lose all control over the process. Long as what
> > come back works well enough to sell - it is deemed to be perfect.
<
>
> And all too often the makers are quite happy for it to fail and be deemed
> 'unrepairable' after 5 years or so, in order for them to sell you their
> 'new' model.
>
>
** Utterly stupid nonsense.
When something you buy fails far too early - YOU never buy the same again !!

> Ditto for making units difficult to repair and not providing special parts
> as spares, etc.

** Nope, that is just being an asshole.

Manufacturers (ie factory staff) know NOTHING about the repair business, do not do it themselves and it is not their concern.
Goes triple for all Asian sub contractors to famous brands.

....... Phil

In article <5978a2ad03noise@audiomisc.co.uk>,
Jim Lesurf <noise@audiomisc.co.uk> wrote:

> And all too often the makers are quite happy for it to fail and be
> deemed 'unrepairable' after 5 years or so, in order for them to
> sell you their 'new' model.

Much worse than that, I give you Sonos.

A few years ago my wife wanted to be able to play music stored on our
NAS in the kitchen. At the time, I liked the Sonos system simply
because it used simple SMB shares, I've since seriously changed my
mind about that but anyway, we ended up getting 3 Sonos devices in
total. All working fine and controlled by an iPad.

In 2018, Sonos forced a system software update. This was for their
players and the iPad control app. They forced this suddenly and
without warning by turning off important features like being able to
re-index your music library. Update to get things back.

In my case, the players updated fine but the iPad bounced the upgrade
because the iPad OS was too old and Apple refused an OS upgrade
because the iPad was too old. But Apple didn't stop anything working
they just stopped updating the thing.

Sonos are aware that this procedure breaks people's systems, I know
they are because I made a complaint to them at the highest level
which they acknowledged.

Last month, exactly the same thing happened to a mate of mine with a
later iPad.

My advice DON'T buy Sonos gear it's over priced and their software
update policy is %$£^%&^.

Bob.

In article <8a6b6de6-690e-4c67-8c4f-f932f7ff9142n@googlegroups.com>, Phil
Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:
> > And all too often the makers are quite happy for it to fail and be
> > deemed 'unrepairable' after 5 years or so, in order for them to sell
> > you their 'new' model.
> >
> >
> ** Utterly stupid nonsense. When something you buy
> fails far too early - YOU never buy the same again !!

We live in a time when 'brand names' get bought and sold. The first time I
encountered the above was with a device with 'Philips' on the case branding
- long after the original company had gone. These names get sold on.

"Too early" hinges on who defines what that term means. After a few years
I was simply told "we no longer have any of the special parts required as
spares".

> > Ditto for making units difficult to repair and not providing special
> > parts as spares, etc.

> ** Nope, that is just being an asshole.

> Manufacturers (ie factory staff) know NOTHING about the repair
> business, do not do it themselves and it is not their concern. Goes
> triple for all Asian sub contractors to famous brands.

The designers and component chooses do 'know' to choose cheap components
because they can make more profit and say "not my problem" after the
guarantee expires. EU law *requires* repair for a given period beyond the
warranty. But 'Philips' simply offerred to sell me their current model at
wholesale price. i.e. they would make as much as if I'd bought it via
retail. When I pointed out the law they simply took for granted that no-one
ever managed to sue them and force the issue.

Jim

--
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Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

In article <597932890ebob@sick-of-spam.invalid>, Bob Latham
<bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:

> In 2018, Sonos forced a system software update. This was for their
> players and the iPad control app. They forced this suddenly and without
> warning by turning off important features like being able to re-index
> your music library. Update to get things back.

(snip)

I've repeatedly warned in my magazine columns/articles that people *avoid*
such 'closed boxes' that depend on an external controller/updater. Their
end-fate tends to be becoming 'bricked' either by an 'update' or the lack
of one needed because the old service method changes. Many modern 'TV's can
suffer the same fate, as have some 'smart' BD players which can even be
bricked by a *disc*. Because the makers *want* this to be possible.

Again, people can argue about the legality, but in the end it is the user
versus a big international corp whose reaction is "So sue me.".

Jim

--
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Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

In article <5979a8bd9fnoise@audiomisc.co.uk>,
Jim Lesurf <noise@audiomisc.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <597932890ebob@sick-of-spam.invalid>, Bob Latham
> <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:

> > In 2018, Sonos forced a system software update. This was for
> > their players and the iPad control app. They forced this suddenly
> > and without warning by turning off important features like being
> > able to re-index your music library. Update to get things back.

> (snip)

> I've repeatedly warned in my magazine columns/articles that people
> *avoid* such 'closed boxes' that depend on an external
> controller/updater.

Yes, indeed you have and quite correctly.

However, all other companies that I've encountered do not force
updates on you, certainly Linn, Denon and Arcam have not done that to
me, they just offer an update and a change list of what the update
fixes which tail off to zero after a couple of years. They don't
force updates of the control app either so you don't fall victim to
an old iPad OS.

No, this is a pretty unpleasant political decision by Sonos who I
would never buy or recommend again.

Bob.

You will be glad to know that a mega degunge session on the psu and main
amp pcbs has apparently cured the subs tendency to turn on and off and kill
transistors randomly. Its also needed several electrolytic replacing though
they looked OK the were a bit dodgy capacity wise.
Thanks for the advice. Fingers crossed we have not missed any gunge.
Brian

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Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Jim Lesurf" <noise@audiomisc.co.uk> wrote in message
news:5979a84c87noise@audiomisc.co.uk...
> In article <8a6b6de6-690e-4c67-8c4f-f932f7ff9142n@googlegroups.com>, Phil
> Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > And all too often the makers are quite happy for it to fail and be
>> > deemed 'unrepairable' after 5 years or so, in order for them to sell
>> > you their 'new' model.
>> >
>> >
>> ** Utterly stupid nonsense. When something you buy
>> fails far too early - YOU never buy the same again !!
>
> We live in a time when 'brand names' get bought and sold. The first time I
> encountered the above was with a device with 'Philips' on the case
> branding
> - long after the original company had gone. These names get sold on.
>
> "Too early" hinges on who defines what that term means. After a few years
> I was simply told "we no longer have any of the special parts required as
> spares".
>
>> > Ditto for making units difficult to repair and not providing special
>> > parts as spares, etc.
>
>> ** Nope, that is just being an asshole.
>
>> Manufacturers (ie factory staff) know NOTHING about the repair
>> business, do not do it themselves and it is not their concern. Goes
>> triple for all Asian sub contractors to famous brands.
>
> The designers and component chooses do 'know' to choose cheap components
> because they can make more profit and say "not my problem" after the
> guarantee expires. EU law *requires* repair for a given period beyond the
> warranty. But 'Philips' simply offerred to sell me their current model at
> wholesale price. i.e. they would make as much as if I'd bought it via
> retail. When I pointed out the law they simply took for granted that
> no-one
> ever managed to sue them and force the issue.
>
> Jim
>
> --
> Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
> Electronics
> https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
> biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
> Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html
>

On 11 Oct 2021 at 10:00:21 BST, "Jim Lesurf" <noise@audiomisc.co.uk> wrote:

> In article <8a6b6de6-690e-4c67-8c4f-f932f7ff9142n@googlegroups.com>, Phil
> Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> And all too often the makers are quite happy for it to fail and be
>>> deemed 'unrepairable' after 5 years or so, in order for them to sell
>>> you their 'new' model.
>>>
>>>
>> ** Utterly stupid nonsense. When something you buy
>> fails far too early - YOU never buy the same again !!
>
> We live in a time when 'brand names' get bought and sold. The first time I
> encountered the above was with a device with 'Philips' on the case branding
> - long after the original company had gone. These names get sold on.
>
> "Too early" hinges on who defines what that term means. After a few years
> I was simply told "we no longer have any of the special parts required as
> spares".
>
>>> Ditto for making units difficult to repair and not providing special
>>> parts as spares, etc.
>
>> ** Nope, that is just being an asshole.
>
>> Manufacturers (ie factory staff) know NOTHING about the repair
>> business, do not do it themselves and it is not their concern. Goes
>> triple for all Asian sub contractors to famous brands.
>
> The designers and component chooses do 'know' to choose cheap components
> because they can make more profit and say "not my problem" after the
> guarantee expires. EU law *requires* repair for a given period beyond the
> warranty. But 'Philips' simply offerred to sell me their current model at
> wholesale price. i.e. they would make as much as if I'd bought it via
> retail. When I pointed out the law they simply took for granted that no-one
> ever managed to sue them and force the issue.
>

Is there any brand you trust in this regard?

Have to say I've been impressed by Quad's ability to service/repair, although
I'm not sure how closely related the service side is to the rest of the
conglomerate.
--
Cheers, Rob

Jim Lesurf is a worthless, bullshitting clown

-------------------------------============-------------------
>>
> > > And all too often the makers are quite happy for it to fail and be
> > > deemed 'unrepairable' after 5 years or so, in order for them to sell
> > > you their 'new' model.
> > >
> > >
> > ** Utterly stupid nonsense. When something you buy
> > fails far too early - YOU never buy the same again !!
>
> We live in a time when 'brand names' get bought and sold.

** Totally off with the fairies ...........
> "Too early" hinges on who defines what that term means.

** How about a "reasonable person".
The standard legal test.

> > > Ditto for making units difficult to repair and not providing special
> > > parts as spares, etc.
>
> > ** Nope, that is just being an asshole.
>
> > Manufacturers (ie factory staff) know NOTHING about the repair
> > business, do not do it themselves and it is not their concern. Goes
> > triple for all Asian sub contractors to famous brands.
>
> The designers and component chooses do 'know' to choose cheap components
> because they can make more profit and say "not my problem" after the
> guarantee expires.

** Wrong - the Chinese designers et alia are not liable at all.
Only the importers can be - fuckwit.,

> EU law *requires* repair for a given period beyond the
> warranty. But 'Philips' simply offerred to sell me their current model at
> wholesale price. i.e. they would make as much as if I'd bought it via
> retail. When I pointed out the law they simply took for granted that no-one
> ever managed to sue them and force the issue.
>

** Usual useless fake consumer law.

........ Phil

Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:

==================
>
> You will be glad to know that a mega degunge session on the psu and main
> amp pcbs has apparently cured the subs tendency to turn on and off and kill
> transistors randomly. Its also needed several electrolytic replacing though
> they looked OK the were a bit dodgy capacity wise.
> Thanks for the advice. Fingers crossed we have not missed any gunge.
> Brian
>

** The stuff is like cancer.
You gotta get every tiny, little bit or it still does lethal damage given time.

Any small components with leads that look corroded need replacing.
Horrible job, not economic with older, low value gear.

....... Phil

In article <sk8oqn$vsc$1@dont-email.me>, RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com>
wrote:

> Is there any brand you trust in this regard?

Yes, there are some. cf below

> Have to say I've been impressed by Quad's ability to service/repair,
> although I'm not sure how closely related the service side is to the
> rest of the conglomerate.

I can't say if there have been any recent changes. But yes, their UK-based
service people are, in my experience, very good. Alas, I can't say the same
for all other brands. Some were good in the past, but now seem AWOL.

The best way to know is probably to ask here about specific brands or
perhaps on 'Pink Fish' as a number of people who repair or renovate items
pop up there. Unlike some other 'forums' (sic) it is well run and helpful.

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html