In article <f90ca033-e1d6-6dae-6767-c283250487fe@outlook.com>,
Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:
> > Ah, my energy supplier has £700 of mine for my own good! Mighty decent
> > of them! It'll be over £800 in a few days.

> A good few people like to avoid spikes in payments at and after
> Christmas. What balance do you expect come April?

When I was on a fixed monthly payment, I was in credit part of the year,
and in debt at other times. I've no doubt they worked it out so they won,
though.

--
*Arkansas State Motto: Don't Ask, Don't Tell, Don't Laugh.

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article <ju4o3tF4kfmU1@mid.individual.net>,
Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> rick wrote:

> > Tim Lamb wrote:
> >
> >> Any takers for consumers not willing to accept smart metering?
> >
> > I don't have and don't want SMART metering.

> I had smart meters (many years ago got pissed-off with the number of
> meter reader visits requiring days at home) but they went dumb after
> e.on started having expensive fixed tariffs, instead of cheap, and I
> moved supplier.

> In no rush now to get another smart meter, as working from home is now a
> thing, and meter readers seem to be extinct.

> The only good thing about smart meters is the IHD, no more having to go
> and tangle with the spiders to send an online reading.

That was the only reason I wanted one. Gas meter mounted sideways in the
cellar (on a convenient, for the installer, sleeper wall) so I had to use
a torch, lean over and likely get dirty reading it. Electricity one had
already been moved to the top of the cellar stairs.

--
*Remember not to forget that which you do not need to know.*

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tuesday, 22 November 2022 at 20:03:24 UTC, Tim+ wrote:
>> rick <rick_hughes@_remove_btconnect.com> wrote:
>>> On 16/11/2022 11:00, Tim Lamb wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Any takers for consumers not willing to accept smart metering?
>>>
>>>
>>> I don't have and don't want SMART metering.
>>> Was moved to E.ON when my supplier sent bust, no noises form them on
>>> SMART metering.
>>>
>> You view might change if/when you have an EV. My smart meter saves me a
>> lot of money.
>
> How does it do that ?
>

By giving me access to a variable time of day tariff. Currently on a fixed
4 hour discount tariff but I could also have access to a tariff that would
give me six hours, but with times chosen by the power company through the
night to spread demand.

Because I can time-shift my heavy consumption devices, my current *average*
daily electricity rate is just over 16 pence/kWhr.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

Tim+ <tim.downie@gmail.com> wrote:
> whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Tuesday, 22 November 2022 at 20:03:24 UTC, Tim+ wrote:
> >> rick <rick_hughes@_remove_btconnect.com> wrote:
> >>> On 16/11/2022 11:00, Tim Lamb wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Any takers for consumers not willing to accept smart metering?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I don't have and don't want SMART metering.
> >>> Was moved to E.ON when my supplier sent bust, no noises form them on
> >>> SMART metering.
> >>>
> >> You view might change if/when you have an EV. My smart meter saves me a
> >> lot of money.
> >
> > How does it do that ?
> >
>
> By giving me access to a variable time of day tariff. Currently on a fixed
> 4 hour discount tariff but I could also have access to a tariff that would
> give me six hours, but with times chosen by the power company through the
> night to spread demand.
>
> Because I can time-shift my heavy consumption devices, my current *average*
> daily electricity rate is just over 16 pence/kWhr.
>
That's not how they try to 'sell' smart meters though is it?

--
Chris Green
·

Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> wrote:
> Tim+ <tim.downie@gmail.com> wrote:
>> whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, 22 November 2022 at 20:03:24 UTC, Tim+ wrote:
>>>> rick <rick_hughes@_remove_btconnect.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 16/11/2022 11:00, Tim Lamb wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Any takers for consumers not willing to accept smart metering?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't have and don't want SMART metering.
>>>>> Was moved to E.ON when my supplier sent bust, no noises form them on
>>>>> SMART metering.
>>>>>
>>>> You view might change if/when you have an EV. My smart meter saves me a
>>>> lot of money.
>>>
>>> How does it do that ?
>>>
>>
>> By giving me access to a variable time of day tariff. Currently on a fixed
>> 4 hour discount tariff but I could also have access to a tariff that would
>> give me six hours, but with times chosen by the power company through the
>> night to spread demand.
>>
>> Because I can time-shift my heavy consumption devices, my current *average*
>> daily electricity rate is just over 16 pence/kWhr.
>>
> That's not how they try to 'sell' smart meters though is it?
>

I think people hear what they want to hear about smart meters. A lot of
tin foil hat wearers making a lot of noise I think.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 23/11/2022 15:51, Martin Brown wrote:
> The one in our Village Hall has saved us a fortune by preventing people
> walking away leaving a plate warmer, oven or hot water system still on.
>
> No matter how often you tell them people leave things on by accident.

That will depend on the item actually drawing current at the time you
look at the meter - things like ovens, hot plates and water heaters,
regularly switch on and off, as they maintain a temperature.

On 23/11/2022 19:53, Tim+ wrote:
> I think people hear what they want to hear about smart meters. A lot of
> tin foil hat wearers making a lot of noise I think.

+1

In article <5a4bedf9a3dave@davenoise.co.uk>,
Dave Plowman (News) <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <f90ca033-e1d6-6dae-6767-c283250487fe@outlook.com>,
> Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:
> > > Ah, my energy supplier has £700 of mine for my own good! Mighty
> > > decent of them! It'll be over £800 in a few days.

> > A good few people like to avoid spikes in payments at and after
> > Christmas. What balance do you expect come April?

> When I was on a fixed monthly payment, I was in credit part of the year,
> and in debt at other times. I've no doubt they worked it out so they won,
> though.

a great many years ago the Gas Board suggested I pid monthly. They worked
out the paymenst by dividing the previous 18 months (which included 2
winters) total by 12. Needless to say, I carried on paying quarterly for
what I had consumed.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 23/11/2022 15:51, Martin Brown wrote:
> On 23/11/2022 13:26, whisky-dave wrote:
>> On Tuesday, 22 November 2022 at 20:03:24 UTC, Tim+ wrote:
>>> rick <rick_hughes@_remove_btconnect.com> wrote:
>>>> On 16/11/2022 11:00, Tim Lamb wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Any takers for consumers not willing to accept smart metering?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I don't have and don't want SMART metering.
>>>> Was moved to E.ON when my supplier sent bust, no noises form them on
>>>> SMART metering.
>>>>
>>> You view might change if/when you have an EV. My smart meter saves me a
>>> lot of money.
>>
>> How does it do that ?
>
> If you pay any attention to it (and haven't had a realtime display
> before) then it can show you where energy is being wasted and if some
> high usage device like an immersion heater has been left on.
>
> The one in our Village Hall has saved us a fortune by preventing people
> walking away leaving a plate warmer, oven or hot water system still on.
>
> No matter how often you tell them people leave things on by accident.
> Checking the display at the door as you lock up is almost fool proof -
> although the odd fool still manages to ignore it. We have a lower
> electricity usage as a result (still rather big now due to ~3x
> increase). No cap on VH prices - treated as a business.

For my garage, I simply have a switch next to the lightswitch, which
switches all the sockets, except one 2-gang one reserved for the freezer
and whichever tool or car battery charger I want to use. A hall could
have a switch controlling one or more contactors.

On Wednesday, 23 November 2022 at 15:51:58 UTC, Martin Brown wrote:
> On 23/11/2022 13:26, whisky-dave wrote:
> > On Tuesday, 22 November 2022 at 20:03:24 UTC, Tim+ wrote:
> >> rick <rick_hughes@_remove_btconnect.com> wrote:
> >>> On 16/11/2022 11:00, Tim Lamb wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Any takers for consumers not willing to accept smart metering?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I don't have and don't want SMART metering.
> >>> Was moved to E.ON when my supplier sent bust, no noises form them on
> >>> SMART metering.
> >>>
> >> You view might change if/when you have an EV. My smart meter saves me a
> >> lot of money.
> >
> > How does it do that ?
> If you pay any attention to it (and haven't had a realtime display
> before) then it can show you where energy is being wasted and if some
> high usage device like an immersion heater has been left on.

But it's not the smart meter that saves you money, it;'s the person reacting to it.
I don;t haveb a smart meter but I do have a wireless thingy wrapped around the
single core 'live' wire the th comsumer unit fuse, so it pretty much gives me
the amount I'm using.

I think the problem is calling them smart and the less smart amonst the population think these devices
magically save them money just by having them installed.

>
> The one in our Village Hall has saved us a fortune by preventing people
> walking away leaving a plate warmer, oven or hot water system still on.

Yes by user intervention not the device itself.

>
> No matter how often you tell them people leave things on by accident.
> Checking the display at the door as you lock up is almost fool proof -
> although the odd fool still manages to ignore it. We have a lower
> electricity usage as a result (still rather big now due to ~3x
> increase). No cap on VH prices - treated as a business.

Yes the best way to set them up for most people is to display the amount the current/electricity (pun intended)
usage is costing per hour. Then let them decide where to turn stuff off or not.

>
> --
> Regards,
> Martin Brown

whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wednesday, 23 November 2022 at 15:51:58 UTC, Martin Brown wrote:
>> On 23/11/2022 13:26, whisky-dave wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, 22 November 2022 at 20:03:24 UTC, Tim+ wrote:
>>>> rick <rick_hughes@_remove_btconnect.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 16/11/2022 11:00, Tim Lamb wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Any takers for consumers not willing to accept smart metering?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't have and don't want SMART metering.
>>>>> Was moved to E.ON when my supplier sent bust, no noises form them on
>>>>> SMART metering.
>>>>>
>>>> You view might change if/when you have an EV. My smart meter saves me a
>>>> lot of money.
>>>
>>> How does it do that ?
>> If you pay any attention to it (and haven't had a realtime display
>> before) then it can show you where energy is being wasted and if some
>> high usage device like an immersion heater has been left on.
>
> But it's not the smart meter that saves you money, it;'s the person reacting to it.

As I’ve explained, in my case it gives me access to a “smart” tariff that
you simply can’t have without a smart meter. My tariff saves me lots of
money.

Of course I still have to use the tariff smartly so in that sense, I am
reacting to the data but it goes way beyond simply finding some
unappreciated power hogs in your house.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

In article
<1918298708.690925913.803024.tim.downie-gmail.com@news.individual.net>,
Tim+ <tim.downie@gmail.com> wrote:
> I think people hear what they want to hear about smart meters. A lot of
> tin foil hat wearers making a lot of noise I think.

Quite.

--
*WHY ARE HEMORRHOIDS CALLED "HEMORRHOIDS" INSTEAD OF "ASTEROIDS"?

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 11:29:36 AM UTC, Pancho wrote:
> On 16/11/2022 11:00, Tim Lamb wrote:
> > Ok. I think they have won!
> >
> > My gas and electricity suppliers, SSE were taken over by OVO in 2020.
> >
> > They have finally spotted that I don't have smart metering and have been
> > quarterly billing based on consumer readings.
> >
> > Some 28/09 I got a mail advising a move to a monthly fixed direct debit..
> > The amounts seemed a bit high but given the lack of published
> > information about actual costs and not knowing the impact of Govt.
> > subsidies I decided to ignore it.
> >
> > 29/09 They posted a likely increase of £532/yr for gas/electricity
> > based on average user consumption.
> >
> > 21/10 They posted my new plan would be £111/month Electricity and
> > £121.month for gas.
> >
> > 07/11 They advised my new plan would be £268/month Electricity and £339
> > for gas.
> >
> > 15/11 Grovelling apology about miscommunication but basically confirming
> > the 07/11 figures!
> >
> > I rather suspect OVO are hoping I'll jump ship!
> >
> > Any takers for consumers not willing to accept smart metering?
> I don't think you need to pay direct debit.
>
> My company appears to be treating direct debit as a free loan. Their
> estimates and consequent Direct Debit are nonsense, on the high side.
>
> With the advent of smart meters, the Energy companies should offer Pay
> as You go, like a mobile, for no additional cost.
>
> The payment system technology is mature and pay in advance eliminates
> credit risk.
I pay SSE on three properties via quarterly billing. I think I pay a bit extra for the paper bills but I don't lend them money. When my father died four years ago, they owed him over £1K from his overpayments on DD.

Jonathan

On 23/11/2022 19:53, Tim+ wrote:

>
> I think people hear what they want to hear about smart meters. A lot of
> tin foil hat wearers making a lot of noise I think.
>

+1
Recent we hear a lot about what's happening to some people with smart
meters. Go back a year or two and the media was full of peoples'
problems with conventional meters - mainly getting into serious debt
because the meter hadn't been read for years.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 11/24/2022 9:49 AM, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article
> <1918298708.690925913.803024.tim.downie-gmail.com@news.individual.net>,
> Tim+ <tim.downie@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I think people hear what they want to hear about smart meters. A lot of
>> tin foil hat wearers making a lot of noise I think.
>
> Quite.
>

A current transformer, by itself, measures VA.

You take the Amps reading and multiply it by
your best guess of what the Volts are at the moment.

Consumer power is measured as W or Watts
and involves cos(theta). The Smart Meter is
very good at working out cos(theta). And one
of the reasons, is it measures the consumption
waveform 500,000 times a second. And integrates
the area under the curve.

This is how they can lay claim to an accuracy
of 1% of so.

To give a demo of the error you can make with
a current transformer, these are the numbers
for my (soft OFF) PC, where the +5VSB is still
running on the thing.

W 1.4 <=== what a Smart Meter would say (bill-able power)
VA 8.2 <=== what a current transformer tells you

PF 0.17 cos(theta)

If you know two of the numbers, you can work out the third.

No matter what other crimes or underhanded business practices
are associated with smart meters, metrology should not be an issue.

If you had a house filled with incandescent light bulbs,
they were all on, the TVs and computers and modems were
disconnected, no motors running... then the current
transformer would agree with the Smart meter (as the
load is then PF=1.0).

Paul

On Fri, 25 Nov 2022 00:29:00 +1100, whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com>
wrote:

> On Wednesday, 23 November 2022 at 15:51:58 UTC, Martin Brown wrote:
>> On 23/11/2022 13:26, whisky-dave wrote:
>> > On Tuesday, 22 November 2022 at 20:03:24 UTC, Tim+ wrote:
>> >> rick <rick_hughes@_remove_btconnect.com> wrote:
>> >>> On 16/11/2022 11:00, Tim Lamb wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Any takers for consumers not willing to accept smart metering?
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> I don't have and don't want SMART metering.
>> >>> Was moved to E.ON when my supplier sent bust, no noises form them on
>> >>> SMART metering.
>> >>>
>> >> You view might change if/when you have an EV. My smart meter saves
>> me a
>> >> lot of money.
>> >
>> > How does it do that ?
>> If you pay any attention to it (and haven't had a realtime display
>> before) then it can show you where energy is being wasted and if some
>> high usage device like an immersion heater has been left on.
>
> But it's not the smart meter that saves you money, it;'s the person
> reacting to it.
> I don;t haveb a smart meter but I do have a wireless thingy wrapped
> around the
> single core 'live' wire the th comsumer unit fuse, so it pretty much
> gives me
> the amount I'm using.
>
> I think the problem is calling them smart and the less smart amonst the
> population think these devices
> magically save them money just by having them installed.
>
>>
>> The one in our Village Hall has saved us a fortune by preventing people
>> walking away leaving a plate warmer, oven or hot water system still on.
>
> Yes by user intervention not the device itself.
>
>>
>> No matter how often you tell them people leave things on by accident.
>> Checking the display at the door as you lock up is almost fool proof -
>> although the odd fool still manages to ignore it. We have a lower
>> electricity usage as a result (still rather big now due to ~3x
>> increase). No cap on VH prices - treated as a business.
>
> Yes the best way to set them up for most people is to display the
> amount the current/electricity (pun intended)
> usage is costing per hour. Then let them decide where to turn stuff off
> or not.

That doesnt work with thermostatted devices.

On 24/11/2022 14:56, Jonathan wrote:
..
> I pay SSE on three properties via quarterly billing. I think I pay a bit extra for the paper bills but I don't lend them money. When my father died four years ago, they owed him over £1K from his overpayments on DD.

I do what you do. The problem is that the consumer loses whichever route
you take. You either pay over the odds for non-DD, or with DD you lend
them money free of interest (which they can invest for a profit). Damned
if you do and damned if you don't!

--

Jeff

On 25/11/2022 08:50, Jeff Layman wrote:
> On 24/11/2022 14:56, Jonathan wrote:
> .
>> I pay SSE on three properties via quarterly billing. I think I pay a
>> bit extra for the paper bills but I don't lend them money. When my
>> father died four years ago, they owed him over £1K from his
>> overpayments on DD.
>
> I do what you do. The problem is that the consumer loses whichever route
> you take. You either pay over the odds for non-DD, or with DD you lend
> them money free of interest (which they can invest for a profit). Damned
> if you do and damned if you don't!

Do they not have any tariffs that are quarterly billed and a variable DD
billed and debited each quarter? They certainly used to.

On 25/11/2022 12:17, SteveW wrote:
> On 25/11/2022 08:50, Jeff Layman wrote:
>> On 24/11/2022 14:56, Jonathan wrote:
>> .
>>> I pay SSE on three properties via quarterly billing. I think I pay a
>>> bit extra for the paper bills but I don't lend them money. When my
>>> father died four years ago, they owed him over £1K from his
>>> overpayments on DD.
>>
>> I do what you do. The problem is that the consumer loses whichever
>> route you take. You either pay over the odds for non-DD, or with DD
>> you lend them money free of interest (which they can invest for a
>> profit). Damned if you do and damned if you don't!
>
> Do they not have any tariffs that are quarterly billed and a variable DD
> billed and debited each quarter? They certainly used to.
>
These tend to be very expensive. They have to wait three months to get
your cash....

Dave

On 25/11/2022 12:47, David Wade wrote:
> On 25/11/2022 12:17, SteveW wrote:
>> On 25/11/2022 08:50, Jeff Layman wrote:
>>> On 24/11/2022 14:56, Jonathan wrote:
>>> .
>>>> I pay SSE on three properties via quarterly billing. I think I pay a
>>>> bit extra for the paper bills but I don't lend them money. When my
>>>> father died four years ago, they owed him over £1K from his
>>>> overpayments on DD.
>>>
>>> I do what you do. The problem is that the consumer loses whichever
>>> route you take. You either pay over the odds for non-DD, or with DD
>>> you lend them money free of interest (which they can invest for a
>>> profit). Damned if you do and damned if you don't!
>>
>> Do they not have any tariffs that are quarterly billed and a variable
>> DD billed and debited each quarter? They certainly used to.
>>
> These tend to be very expensive. They have to wait three months to get
> your cash....
>

and also have to wait 3 months to discover the customer has no means to
pay/has no intention to pay.

The extra costs involved in standard credit include differences in the
probability of non-payment and the quantum of loss. Ofgem take them
into account in the different price caps. The caps set in August:

Direct Debit £3549
Standard Credit £3764
Prepayment £3608

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On Thursday, 24 November 2022 at 20:04:23 UTC, rod.sp...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Fri, 25 Nov 2022 00:29:00 +1100, whisky-dave <whisk...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > On Wednesday, 23 November 2022 at 15:51:58 UTC, Martin Brown wrote:
> >> On 23/11/2022 13:26, whisky-dave wrote:
> >> > On Tuesday, 22 November 2022 at 20:03:24 UTC, Tim+ wrote:
> >> >> rick <rick_hughes@_remove_btconnect.com> wrote:
> >> >>> On 16/11/2022 11:00, Tim Lamb wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Any takers for consumers not willing to accept smart metering?
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> I don't have and don't want SMART metering.
> >> >>> Was moved to E.ON when my supplier sent bust, no noises form them on
> >> >>> SMART metering.
> >> >>>
> >> >> You view might change if/when you have an EV. My smart meter saves
> >> me a
> >> >> lot of money.
> >> >
> >> > How does it do that ?
> >> If you pay any attention to it (and haven't had a realtime display
> >> before) then it can show you where energy is being wasted and if some
> >> high usage device like an immersion heater has been left on.
> >
> > But it's not the smart meter that saves you money, it;'s the person
> > reacting to it.
> > I don;t haveb a smart meter but I do have a wireless thingy wrapped
> > around the
> > single core 'live' wire the th comsumer unit fuse, so it pretty much
> > gives me
> > the amount I'm using.
> >
> > I think the problem is calling them smart and the less smart amonst the
> > population think these devices
> > magically save them money just by having them installed.
> >
> >>
> >> The one in our Village Hall has saved us a fortune by preventing people
> >> walking away leaving a plate warmer, oven or hot water system still on.
> >
> > Yes by user intervention not the device itself.
> >
> >>
> >> No matter how often you tell them people leave things on by accident.
> >> Checking the display at the door as you lock up is almost fool proof -
> >> although the odd fool still manages to ignore it. We have a lower
> >> electricity usage as a result (still rather big now due to ~3x
> >> increase). No cap on VH prices - treated as a business.
> >
> > Yes the best way to set them up for most people is to display the
> > amount the current/electricity (pun intended)
> > usage is costing per hour. Then let them decide where to turn stuff off
> > or not.
> That doesnt work with thermostatted devices.

It does if you explain it .

On 25/11/2022 12:47, David Wade wrote:
> On 25/11/2022 12:17, SteveW wrote:
>> On 25/11/2022 08:50, Jeff Layman wrote:
>>> On 24/11/2022 14:56, Jonathan wrote:
>>> .
>>>> I pay SSE on three properties via quarterly billing. I think I pay a
>>>> bit extra for the paper bills but I don't lend them money. When my
>>>> father died four years ago, they owed him over £1K from his
>>>> overpayments on DD.
>>>
>>> I do what you do. The problem is that the consumer loses whichever
>>> route you take. You either pay over the odds for non-DD, or with DD
>>> you lend them money free of interest (which they can invest for a
>>> profit). Damned if you do and damned if you don't!
>>
>> Do they not have any tariffs that are quarterly billed and a variable
>> DD billed and debited each quarter? They certainly used to.
>>
> These tend to be very expensive. They have to wait three months to get
> your cash....

No more expensive than paying by cheque or cash. I think EDF do it but I
haven't asked them. Not too much of an inconvenience paying once a quarter.

--
Max Demian

On Sat, 26 Nov 2022 00:47:58 +1100, whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com>
wrote:

> On Thursday, 24 November 2022 at 20:04:23 UTC, rod.sp...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Fri, 25 Nov 2022 00:29:00 +1100, whisky-dave <whisk...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > On Wednesday, 23 November 2022 at 15:51:58 UTC, Martin Brown wrote:
>> >> On 23/11/2022 13:26, whisky-dave wrote:
>> >> > On Tuesday, 22 November 2022 at 20:03:24 UTC, Tim+ wrote:
>> >> >> rick <rick_hughes@_remove_btconnect.com> wrote:
>> >> >>> On 16/11/2022 11:00, Tim Lamb wrote:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> Any takers for consumers not willing to accept smart metering?
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> I don't have and don't want SMART metering.
>> >> >>> Was moved to E.ON when my supplier sent bust, no noises form
>> them on
>> >> >>> SMART metering.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >> You view might change if/when you have an EV. My smart meter saves
>> >> me a
>> >> >> lot of money.
>> >> >
>> >> > How does it do that ?
>> >> If you pay any attention to it (and haven't had a realtime display
>> >> before) then it can show you where energy is being wasted and if some
>> >> high usage device like an immersion heater has been left on.
>> >
>> > But it's not the smart meter that saves you money, it;'s the person
>> > reacting to it.
>> > I don;t haveb a smart meter but I do have a wireless thingy wrapped
>> > around the
>> > single core 'live' wire the th comsumer unit fuse, so it pretty much
>> > gives me
>> > the amount I'm using.
>> >
>> > I think the problem is calling them smart and the less smart amonst
>> the
>> > population think these devices
>> > magically save them money just by having them installed.
>> >
>> >>
>> >> The one in our Village Hall has saved us a fortune by preventing
>> people
>> >> walking away leaving a plate warmer, oven or hot water system still
>> on.
>> >
>> > Yes by user intervention not the device itself.
>> >
>> >>
>> >> No matter how often you tell them people leave things on by accident.
>> >> Checking the display at the door as you lock up is almost fool proof
>> -
>> >> although the odd fool still manages to ignore it. We have a lower
>> >> electricity usage as a result (still rather big now due to ~3x
>> >> increase). No cap on VH prices - treated as a business.
>> >
>> > Yes the best way to set them up for most people is to display the
>> > amount the current/electricity (pun intended)
>> > usage is costing per hour. Then let them decide where to turn stuff
>> off
>> > or not.
>> That doesnt work with thermostatted devices.
>
> It does if you explain it .

No it doesn't because there is no easy way to keep track of what
is currently off due to the thermostat.