What do the people recommend as a backup system for a single PC?

I have tried Norton Ghost (discontinued), Acronis True Image (replaced
by Acronis Cyber Protect Home Office - too much unnecessary content)
and Macrium Reflect (far too complicated).

I don't need cloud backup. I just need a simple system to create
incremental backups on an external disc and preferably be able to
restore to a new PC if necessary (I believe this is known as bare
metal restore). Could Windows be trusted with the job?

On Thursday, 24 November 2022 at 14:37:30 UTC, Scott wrote:
> What do the people recommend as a backup system for a single PC?
>
> I have tried Norton Ghost (discontinued), Acronis True Image (replaced
> by Acronis Cyber Protect Home Office - too much unnecessary content)
> and Macrium Reflect (far too complicated).
>
> I don't need cloud backup. I just need a simple system to create
> incremental backups on an external disc and preferably be able to
> restore to a new PC if necessary (I believe this is known as bare
> metal restore). Could Windows be trusted with the job?

Use dd or gnu ddrescue in conjunction with a USB bootable copy
of linux. These will make a bit-exact copy of the whole of your disc onto
another drive which must be at least as large as the one you are backing up.
It is quite a fast way of doing backups because the data is streamed in large
blocks without needing to untangle file systems as part of the process.

For example:
dd if=/dev/sda of=/dev/sdb bs=1M status=progress
would do nicely. Always triple check the names of the source and destination
drives to avoid disaster!

gnu ddrescue is good if the drive you are copying from is defective as it
will recover as much as possible without wearing the drive out too much
before working hard on the bad bits.

John

On 24/11/2022 14:37, Scott wrote:
> What do the people recommend as a backup system for a single PC?
>
> I have tried Norton Ghost (discontinued), Acronis True Image (replaced
> by Acronis Cyber Protect Home Office - too much unnecessary content)
> and Macrium Reflect (far too complicated).
>
> I don't need cloud backup. I just need a simple system to create
> incremental backups on an external disc and preferably be able to
> restore to a new PC if necessary (I believe this is known as bare
> metal restore). Could Windows be trusted with the job?

I use Macrium Reflect + blinkers. That is, I ignore the options and let
it get on with it.

But I also:

a. use it only for the system partitions: my data is dealt with
separately (by SyncBack Free); and

b. don't bother with incremental: a full image doesn't take long with
modern processors and storage with ordinary compression.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On Thu, 24 Nov 2022 15:09:29 +0000, Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:

>On 24/11/2022 14:37, Scott wrote:
>> What do the people recommend as a backup system for a single PC?
>>
>> I have tried Norton Ghost (discontinued), Acronis True Image (replaced
>> by Acronis Cyber Protect Home Office - too much unnecessary content)
>> and Macrium Reflect (far too complicated).
>>
>> I don't need cloud backup. I just need a simple system to create
>> incremental backups on an external disc and preferably be able to
>> restore to a new PC if necessary (I believe this is known as bare
>> metal restore). Could Windows be trusted with the job?
>
>I use Macrium Reflect + blinkers. That is, I ignore the options and let
>it get on with it.
>
>But I also:
>
>a. use it only for the system partitions: my data is dealt with
>separately (by SyncBack Free); and
>
>b. don't bother with incremental: a full image doesn't take long with
>modern processors and storage with ordinary compression.

A varient of that - I use EaseUS Todo Backup to clone the drive to
another that's identical. Takes about 15 minutes to clone the boot
partition. And on the rare occasions that I've had a problem I've
swapped the drives over and rebooted in about five minutes.

On 24/11/2022 14:37, Scott wrote:

> What do the people recommend as a backup system for a single PC?
>
> I have tried Norton Ghost (discontinued), Acronis True Image (replaced
> by Acronis Cyber Protect Home Office - too much unnecessary content)
> and Macrium Reflect (far too complicated).
>
> I don't need cloud backup. I just need a simple system to create
> incremental backups on an external disc and preferably be able to
> restore to a new PC if necessary (I believe this is known as bare
> metal restore). Could Windows be trusted with the job?

You have a couple of different requirements by the sounds of it. Bare
metal restore can be useful for disaster recovery, but is often less
useful than you might expect, since often the disaster you are trying to
recover from involves restoring data onto new hardware - which is
unlikely to be compatible with the low level setup required by the
previous machine.

Sometimes a backup strategy that virtualises the current platform to
allow it to be restored to a VM hypervisor makes more sense since it
breaks the link to the existing hardware.

(modern imaging tools have got better at letting you access files from
the backup without restoring the entire image)

Note also that image or bare metal backups alone are not really backups
in the true sense since they are not well suited to getting back that
file that you corrupted three weeks ago and only just noticed. You may
now find you have lots of ways of restoring a faithful copy of the file
and the corruption. Generational backups help here. This is something
that is quite good with many cloud based backups - backing up changed
files and making all previous versions available for restore.

Generally backup that happen without user interaction are good - they
get done that way!

--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

On Thu, 24 Nov 2022 14:37:25 +0000, Scott wrote:

> What do the people recommend as a backup system for a single PC?
>
> I have tried Norton Ghost (discontinued), Acronis True Image (replaced
> by Acronis Cyber Protect Home Office - too much unnecessary content) and
> Macrium Reflect (far too complicated).
>
> I don't need cloud backup. I just need a simple system to create
> incremental backups on an external disc and preferably be able to
> restore to a new PC if necessary (I believe this is known as bare metal
> restore). Could Windows be trusted with the job?

I have used 'Drive Snapshot' for years, its so straight forward. Stores
an image as an .sna file compressed and encrypted.

On 24/11/2022 15:09, Robin wrote:
> On 24/11/2022 14:37, Scott wrote:
>> What  do the people recommend as a backup system for a single PC?
>>
>> I have tried Norton Ghost (discontinued), Acronis True Image (replaced
>> by Acronis Cyber Protect Home Office - too much unnecessary content)
>> and Macrium Reflect (far too complicated).
>>
>> I don't need cloud backup.  I just need a simple system to create
>> incremental backups on an external disc and preferably be able to
>> restore to a new PC if necessary (I believe this is known as bare
>> metal restore).  Could Windows be trusted with the job?
>
> I use Macrium Reflect + blinkers.  That is, I ignore the options and let
> it get on with it.
>
> But I also:
>
> a.    use it only for the system partitions: my data is dealt with
> separately (by SyncBack Free); and
>
> b.    don't bother with incremental: a full image doesn't take long with
> modern processors and storage with ordinary compression.
>
>
+1 Use Macriun Reflect for System partition to network drive with Verify
option, scheduled for once a week.
My "document" files and some photos etc are auto backed up to pcloud , I
pay to get loads of storage, undelete option and good customer support.
I know there are plenty of free Cloud storage solutions but feel that
there of more chance of a paid for service surviving longterm

On 24/11/2022 15:04, John Walliker wrote:
> On Thursday, 24 November 2022 at 14:37:30 UTC, Scott wrote:
>> What do the people recommend as a backup system for a single PC?
>>
>> I have tried Norton Ghost (discontinued), Acronis True Image (replaced
>> by Acronis Cyber Protect Home Office - too much unnecessary content)
>> and Macrium Reflect (far too complicated).
>>
>> I don't need cloud backup. I just need a simple system to create
>> incremental backups on an external disc and preferably be able to
>> restore to a new PC if necessary (I believe this is known as bare
>> metal restore). Could Windows be trusted with the job?
>
> Use dd or gnu ddrescue in conjunction with a USB bootable copy
> of linux. These will make a bit-exact copy of the whole of your disc onto
> another drive which must be at least as large as the one you are backing up.
> It is quite a fast way of doing backups because the data is streamed in large
> blocks without needing to untangle file systems as part of the process.
>
> For example:
> dd if=/dev/sda of=/dev/sdb bs=1M status=progress
> would do nicely. Always triple check the names of the source and destination
> drives to avoid disaster!
>
> gnu ddrescue is good if the drive you are copying from is defective as it
> will recover as much as possible without wearing the drive out too much
> before working hard on the bad bits.
>
> John

does that work if the source HDD/SDD and the destination HDD/SSD have
different file systems like NTFS to Ext 4 or Reiser to Ext5?

Also does it work on LVM's (logical volumes)?

On Thursday, 24 November 2022 at 18:49:42 UTC, SH wrote:
> On 24/11/2022 15:04, John Walliker wrote:
> > On Thursday, 24 November 2022 at 14:37:30 UTC, Scott wrote:
> >> What do the people recommend as a backup system for a single PC?
> >>
> >> I have tried Norton Ghost (discontinued), Acronis True Image (replaced
> >> by Acronis Cyber Protect Home Office - too much unnecessary content)
> >> and Macrium Reflect (far too complicated).
> >>
> >> I don't need cloud backup. I just need a simple system to create
> >> incremental backups on an external disc and preferably be able to
> >> restore to a new PC if necessary (I believe this is known as bare
> >> metal restore). Could Windows be trusted with the job?
> >
> > Use dd or gnu ddrescue in conjunction with a USB bootable copy
> > of linux. These will make a bit-exact copy of the whole of your disc onto
> > another drive which must be at least as large as the one you are backing up.
> > It is quite a fast way of doing backups because the data is streamed in large
> > blocks without needing to untangle file systems as part of the process.
> >
> > For example:
> > dd if=/dev/sda of=/dev/sdb bs=1M status=progress
> > would do nicely. Always triple check the names of the source and destination
> > drives to avoid disaster!
> >
> > gnu ddrescue is good if the drive you are copying from is defective as it
> > will recover as much as possible without wearing the drive out too much
> > before working hard on the bad bits.
> >
> > John
> does that work if the source HDD/SDD and the destination HDD/SSD have
> different file systems like NTFS to Ext 4 or Reiser to Ext5?
>
> Also does it work on LVM's (logical volumes)?

It works in all those situations because the destination drive ends up an EXACT
copy of the source so long as it is big enough. In other words, it doesn't matter
what file system was on the destination drive because that file system will be
completely destroyed and replaced with whatever was on the source drive.
This may not be what everyone wants, but I think it is a good way of doing full
backups. Some of the advantages are:
1) It is free
2) The tools needed to restore the data will never go away. DD existed (1987) when
Windows had barely been thought of and will always be around. There will always
be ways of doing raw copies.
3) It is complete. You don't need to think of all the obscure directories that some of
your data might accidentally have been stored in.
4) It is fast. There is no intelligence, no unscrambling of file systems. Its just a raw
copy of everything on the source drive including any low level structures like LVMs and
filing systems.

If your hardware has died, you can probably find another equivalent machine
that will boot from your backup. If you can't, you may be able to create a virtual
machine environment that can. If that doesn't work it will almost certainly be possible
to find a way of mounting the filing system on some environment that lets you recover
the data that matters to you.

Something else that is really useful is the ability to protect yourself from data recovery
tools. Suppose that you about to use some tool that mends a broken filing system.
There is a good chance that the tool you have chosen will fail in some way leaving
you in an even greater mess. If you have created an exact image of your drive then
when that mess happens you can copy the image back and have another try with a
different tool.
Never try to run dd or gnu ddrescue under Windows using Cygwin when trying to fix
a broken machine. If the machine reboots for any reason Windows will see the
drive you are trying to save to and try to fix the partially recovered file system which
is the last thing you want.

These comments are based on many years of making mistakes and trying to learn
from them. I'm sure plenty of people will disagree to varying degrees. However,
there is nothing quite as good as an exact image of the original drive. It preserves
all options for recovery. dd or ddrescue booted from a USB stick is as good as it gets
for saving data in a way that can be recovered any time in the future.

However, doing backups of the directories that you think are important in a way that
allows more instant recovery is good too. Diversity is good. Convenience is essential
otherwise the backups won't happen often enough. Don't forget rsync. Don't forget
how cheap disc drives are now, especially if you buy a few used ones from eBay. Get
a desktop USB3 drive caddy so that you can conveniently plug in a bare drive for your
next backup.

John

On Fri, 25 Nov 2022 01:37:25 +1100, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk>
wrote:

> What do the people recommend as a backup system for a single PC?
>
> I have tried Norton Ghost (discontinued), Acronis True Image (replaced
> by Acronis Cyber Protect Home Office - too much unnecessary content)

And its now a subscription system.

> and Macrium Reflect (far too complicated).

> I don't need cloud backup. I just need a simple system to create
> incremental backups on an external disc and preferably be able to
> restore to a new PC if necessary (I believe this is known as bare
> metal restore). Could Windows be trusted with the job?

It does work but I dont like the features, too limited imo.

Best approach is an older True Image before it got too compicated imo.

On Fri, 25 Nov 2022 02:04:58 +1100, John Walliker <jrwalliker@gmail.com>
wrote:

> On Thursday, 24 November 2022 at 14:37:30 UTC, Scott wrote:
>> What do the people recommend as a backup system for a single PC?
>>
>> I have tried Norton Ghost (discontinued), Acronis True Image (replaced
>> by Acronis Cyber Protect Home Office - too much unnecessary content)
>> and Macrium Reflect (far too complicated).
>>
>> I don't need cloud backup. I just need a simple system to create
>> incremental backups on an external disc and preferably be able to
>> restore to a new PC if necessary (I believe this is known as bare
>> metal restore). Could Windows be trusted with the job?
>
> Use dd or gnu ddrescue in conjunction with a USB bootable copy
> of linux. These will make a bit-exact copy of the whole of your disc
> onto
> another drive which must be at least as large as the one you are backing
> up.
> It is quite a fast way of doing backups because the data is streamed in
> large
> blocks without needing to untangle file systems as part of the process.
>
> For example:
> dd if=/dev/sda of=/dev/sdb bs=1M status=progress
> would do nicely. Always triple check the names of the source and
> destination
> drives to avoid disaster!
>
> gnu ddrescue is good if the drive you are copying from is defective as it
> will recover as much as possible without wearing the drive out too much
> before working hard on the bad bits.

Those don't do the incremental backups he wants.

On Fri, 25 Nov 2022 04:59:52 +1100, jon <jon@nospam.cn> wrote:

> On Thu, 24 Nov 2022 14:37:25 +0000, Scott wrote:
>
>> What do the people recommend as a backup system for a single PC?
>>
>> I have tried Norton Ghost (discontinued), Acronis True Image (replaced
>> by Acronis Cyber Protect Home Office - too much unnecessary content) and
>> Macrium Reflect (far too complicated).
>>
>> I don't need cloud backup. I just need a simple system to create
>> incremental backups on an external disc and preferably be able to
>> restore to a new PC if necessary (I believe this is known as bare metal
>> restore). Could Windows be trusted with the job?
>
> I have used 'Drive Snapshot' for years, its so straight forward. Stores
> an image as an .sna file compressed and encrypted.

Doesn't do the incremental he wants.

On Thursday, 24 November 2022 at 21:01:45 UTC, farter wrote:
> On Fri, 25 Nov 2022 04:59:52 +1100, jon <j...@nospam.cn> wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 24 Nov 2022 14:37:25 +0000, Scott wrote:
> >
> >> What do the people recommend as a backup system for a single PC?
> >>
> >> I have tried Norton Ghost (discontinued), Acronis True Image (replaced
> >> by Acronis Cyber Protect Home Office - too much unnecessary content) and
> >> Macrium Reflect (far too complicated).
> >>
> >> I don't need cloud backup. I just need a simple system to create
> >> incremental backups on an external disc and preferably be able to
> >> restore to a new PC if necessary (I believe this is known as bare metal
> >> restore). Could Windows be trusted with the job?
> >
> > I have used 'Drive Snapshot' for years, its so straight forward. Stores
> > an image as an .sna file compressed and encrypted.
> Doesn't do the incremental he wants.

On Thursday, 24 November 2022 at 21:01:45 UTC, farter wrote:
> On Fri, 25 Nov 2022 04:59:52 +1100, jon <j...@nospam.cn> wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 24 Nov 2022 14:37:25 +0000, Scott wrote:
> >
> >> What do the people recommend as a backup system for a single PC?
> >>
> >> I have tried Norton Ghost (discontinued), Acronis True Image (replaced
> >> by Acronis Cyber Protect Home Office - too much unnecessary content) and
> >> Macrium Reflect (far too complicated).
> >>
> >> I don't need cloud backup. I just need a simple system to create
> >> incremental backups on an external disc and preferably be able to
> >> restore to a new PC if necessary (I believe this is known as bare metal
> >> restore). Could Windows be trusted with the job?
> >
> > I have used 'Drive Snapshot' for years, its so straight forward. Stores
> > an image as an .sna file compressed and encrypted.
> Doesn't do the incremental he wants.

If you can do a full backup quickly and easily then maybe incremental
isn't that important. If you really need an incremental backup then do that
as well as a full one.

John

On Fri, 25 Nov 2022 08:27:13 +1100, John Walliker <jrwalliker@gmail.com>
wrote:

> On Thursday, 24 November 2022 at 21:01:45 UTC, farter wrote:
>> On Fri, 25 Nov 2022 04:59:52 +1100, jon <j...@nospam.cn> wrote:
>>
>> > On Thu, 24 Nov 2022 14:37:25 +0000, Scott wrote:
>> >
>> >> What do the people recommend as a backup system for a single PC?
>> >>
>> >> I have tried Norton Ghost (discontinued), Acronis True Image
>> (replaced
>> >> by Acronis Cyber Protect Home Office - too much unnecessary content)
>> and
>> >> Macrium Reflect (far too complicated).
>> >>
>> >> I don't need cloud backup. I just need a simple system to create
>> >> incremental backups on an external disc and preferably be able to
>> >> restore to a new PC if necessary (I believe this is known as bare
>> metal
>> >> restore). Could Windows be trusted with the job?
>> >
>> > I have used 'Drive Snapshot' for years, its so straight forward.
>> Stores
>> > an image as an .sna file compressed and encrypted.
>> Doesn't do the incremental he wants.

> If you can do a full backup quickly and easily then maybe incremental
> isn't that important.

The difference is that the best incremental backups will do that
while you continue to use the system as you usually do and that
means that the backups always get done.

> If you really need an incremental backup then do that
> as well as a full one.

That defeats the massive advantage of incremental backups that
happen when you are using the system as you normally do.

On Thursday, 24 November 2022 at 21:40:50 UTC, farter wrote:
> On Fri, 25 Nov 2022 08:27:13 +1100, John Walliker <jrwal...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > On Thursday, 24 November 2022 at 21:01:45 UTC, farter wrote:
> >> On Fri, 25 Nov 2022 04:59:52 +1100, jon <j...@nospam.cn> wrote:
> >>
> >> > On Thu, 24 Nov 2022 14:37:25 +0000, Scott wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> What do the people recommend as a backup system for a single PC?
> >> >>
> >> >> I have tried Norton Ghost (discontinued), Acronis True Image
> >> (replaced
> >> >> by Acronis Cyber Protect Home Office - too much unnecessary content)
> >> and
> >> >> Macrium Reflect (far too complicated).
> >> >>
> >> >> I don't need cloud backup. I just need a simple system to create
> >> >> incremental backups on an external disc and preferably be able to
> >> >> restore to a new PC if necessary (I believe this is known as bare
> >> metal
> >> >> restore). Could Windows be trusted with the job?
> >> >
> >> > I have used 'Drive Snapshot' for years, its so straight forward.
> >> Stores
> >> > an image as an .sna file compressed and encrypted.
> >> Doesn't do the incremental he wants.
>
> > If you can do a full backup quickly and easily then maybe incremental
> > isn't that important.
> The difference is that the best incremental backups will do that
> while you continue to use the system as you usually do and that
> means that the backups always get done.
> > If you really need an incremental backup then do that
> > as well as a full one.
> That defeats the massive advantage of incremental backups that
> happen when you are using the system as you normally do.

No it doesn't. Nothing stops you from doing incremental backups whenever
you want to. However, there is nothing as simple and reliable as
a full drive image *. You can do both. Incremental backups are more likely
to go wrong than one single copy of the whole drive. When did you last
verify that the chain of incremental backups you have done would actually
let you recover the file you need?

* There is just one exception. If you have used full drive encryption then a
bit-exact image is useless unless you have the decryption key which may
well be stored on a Trusted Platform Module attached to the motherboard.
If you lose that, your bit-exact images are useless.

John

On Fri, 25 Nov 2022 08:56:05 +1100, John Walliker <jrwalliker@gmail.com>
wrote:

> On Thursday, 24 November 2022 at 21:40:50 UTC, farter wrote:
>> On Fri, 25 Nov 2022 08:27:13 +1100, John Walliker <jrwal...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > On Thursday, 24 November 2022 at 21:01:45 UTC, farter wrote:
>> >> On Fri, 25 Nov 2022 04:59:52 +1100, jon <j...@nospam.cn> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > On Thu, 24 Nov 2022 14:37:25 +0000, Scott wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> What do the people recommend as a backup system for a single PC?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I have tried Norton Ghost (discontinued), Acronis True Image
>> >> (replaced
>> >> >> by Acronis Cyber Protect Home Office - too much unnecessary
>> content)
>> >> and
>> >> >> Macrium Reflect (far too complicated).
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I don't need cloud backup. I just need a simple system to create
>> >> >> incremental backups on an external disc and preferably be able to
>> >> >> restore to a new PC if necessary (I believe this is known as bare
>> >> metal
>> >> >> restore). Could Windows be trusted with the job?
>> >> >
>> >> > I have used 'Drive Snapshot' for years, its so straight forward.
>> >> Stores
>> >> > an image as an .sna file compressed and encrypted.
>> >> Doesn't do the incremental he wants.
>>
>> > If you can do a full backup quickly and easily then maybe incremental
>> > isn't that important.
>> The difference is that the best incremental backups will do that
>> while you continue to use the system as you usually do and that
>> means that the backups always get done.
>> > If you really need an incremental backup then do that
>> > as well as a full one.

>> That defeats the massive advantage of incremental backups that
>> happen when you are using the system as you normally do.

> No it doesn't. Nothing stops you from doing incremental backups whenever
> you want to.

But the point is that fully automatic incremental backup
while you are continuing to use the system as you normally
do ensures that the backup always does get done. Nothing
else does that.

> However, there is nothing as simple and reliable as
> a full drive image *. You can do both. Incremental backups are more
> likely
> to go wrong than one single copy of the whole drive.

But well done backup software doesnt go wrong.

> When did you last
> verify that the chain of incremental backups you have done would actually
> let you recover the file you need?

When I discovered that I needed to go back to a file I had changed
or which had got mangled somehow.

> * There is just one exception. If you have used full drive encryption
> then a
> bit-exact image is useless unless you have the decryption key which may
> well be stored on a Trusted Platform Module attached to the motherboard.
> If you lose that, your bit-exact images are useless.

And that is very common with laptops.

Op 24/11/2022 om 14:37 schreef Scott:
> What do the people recommend as a backup system for a single PC?
>
> I have tried Norton Ghost (discontinued), Acronis True Image (replaced
> by Acronis Cyber Protect Home Office - too much unnecessary content)
> and Macrium Reflect (far too complicated).
>
> I don't need cloud backup. I just need a simple system to create
> incremental backups on an external disc and preferably be able to
> restore to a new PC if necessary (I believe this is known as bare
> metal restore). Could Windows be trusted with the job?

Good ol' fashioned rsync.

--
Ottavio Caruso

On 25/11/2022 11:24, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
> Op 24/11/2022 om 14:37 schreef Scott:
>> What  do the people recommend as a backup system for a single PC?
>>
>> I have tried Norton Ghost (discontinued), Acronis True Image (replaced
>> by Acronis Cyber Protect Home Office - too much unnecessary content)
>> and Macrium Reflect (far too complicated).
>>
>> I don't need cloud backup.  I just need a simple system to create
>> incremental backups on an external disc and preferably be able to
>> restore to a new PC if necessary (I believe this is known as bare
>> metal restore).  Could Windows be trusted with the job?
>
> Good ol' fashioned rsync.
>
Well if you are imaging so you can do a bare metal restore and want
incremental restores you really need two types of backup.

The Windows/7 backup/restore which is still in 10 & 11 will create a
system image will let you do a bare metal restore, but its an image, so
you can't see the files in it, and can't do incremental backups.

You can also do incremental backups using the same tool so you can do a
full restore.

I used to use a scheduled "robocopy" to do incremental file level
backups. Its pretty good at this.

Dave

On Friday, 25 November 2022 at 12:44:43 UTC, David Wade wrote:
> On 25/11/2022 11:24, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
> > Op 24/11/2022 om 14:37 schreef Scott:
> >> What do the people recommend as a backup system for a single PC?
> >>
> >> I have tried Norton Ghost (discontinued), Acronis True Image (replaced
> >> by Acronis Cyber Protect Home Office - too much unnecessary content)
> >> and Macrium Reflect (far too complicated).
> >>
> >> I don't need cloud backup. I just need a simple system to create
> >> incremental backups on an external disc and preferably be able to
> >> restore to a new PC if necessary (I believe this is known as bare
> >> metal restore). Could Windows be trusted with the job?
> >
> > Good ol' fashioned rsync.
> >
> Well if you are imaging so you can do a bare metal restore and want
> incremental restores you really need two types of backup.
>
> The Windows/7 backup/restore which is still in 10 & 11 will create a
> system image will let you do a bare metal restore, but its an image, so
> you can't see the files in it, and can't do incremental backups.
>
> You can also do incremental backups using the same tool so you can do a
> full restore.
>
> I used to use a scheduled "robocopy" to do incremental file level
> backups. Its pretty good at this.
>
> Dave

I use Time Machine on a Mac and that can do a full restore or incremental.
I'm currently using Carbon copy cloner on a MAc to do a cline or a HD to SD card and then the SD card to a HD

On Fri, 25 Nov 2022 22:24:36 +1100, Ottavio Caruso
<ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Op 24/11/2022 om 14:37 schreef Scott:
>> What do the people recommend as a backup system for a single PC?
>> I have tried Norton Ghost (discontinued), Acronis True Image (replaced
>> by Acronis Cyber Protect Home Office - too much unnecessary content)
>> and Macrium Reflect (far too complicated).
>> I don't need cloud backup. I just need a simple system to create
>> incremental backups on an external disc and preferably be able to
>> restore to a new PC if necessary (I believe this is known as bare
>> metal restore). Could Windows be trusted with the job?
>
> Good ol' fashioned rsync.

Doesn't do the incremental he needs.

On 11/25/2022 7:44 AM, David Wade wrote:
> On 25/11/2022 11:24, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
>> Op 24/11/2022 om 14:37 schreef Scott:
>>> What  do the people recommend as a backup system for a single PC?
>>>
>>> I have tried Norton Ghost (discontinued), Acronis True Image (replaced
>>> by Acronis Cyber Protect Home Office - too much unnecessary content)
>>> and Macrium Reflect (far too complicated).
>>>
>>> I don't need cloud backup.  I just need a simple system to create
>>> incremental backups on an external disc and preferably be able to
>>> restore to a new PC if necessary (I believe this is known as bare
>>> metal restore).  Could Windows be trusted with the job?
>>
>> Good ol' fashioned rsync.
>>
> Well if you are imaging so you can do a bare metal restore and want incremental restores you really need two types of backup.
>
> The Windows/7 backup/restore which is still in 10 & 11 will create a system image will let you do a bare metal restore, but its an image, so you can't see the files in it, and can't do incremental backups.
>
> You can also do incremental backups using the same tool so you can do a full restore.
>
> I used to use a scheduled "robocopy" to do incremental file level backups. Its pretty good at this.
>
> Dave

You can see the files in it, because it is a .vhd or a .vhdx
file per partition (from the aptly named "Windows 7 Backup").

I think I caught my Windows 11 Home being willing to mount a
..vhdx file the other day. Several of the OSes will mount a .vhd
and 7-ZIP file compressor will open a .vhd file and allow you
to extract a file. Working with .vhdx files is harder.

I would agree with you, that the .vhdx file format is mostly
a dead end (it used to depend on HyperV tools for mounting),
but they may have relented at some point and added that
format to the "mount" option in the Explorer menu. You can
also use the Disk Management "Attach" option, which is also
mounting. To use "Attach", left-click the leftmost box in
any disk row in Disk Management, to make the "Attach" items
move out of the greyed out state in their top-bar menu.

This is an example of a GPT partitioned disk and its Windows 7 Backup output.
I've removed a number of small XML files from the listing.

Directory of F:\WindowsImageBackup\Petunia\Backup 2022-10-18 124040

10/18/2022 08:53 AM 14,114 22c90387-6ed1-405a-90da-4ec604845ff6_Components.xml
....
10/18/2022 08:53 AM 67,108,864 Esp.vhdx <=== EFI GPT Boot Info FAT32
10/18/2022 08:53 AM 43,634,393,088 7b1b05b6-42c7-428d-a0ca-4204a1df973e.vhdx <=== Full C: partition NTFS
10/18/2022 08:53 AM 524,288,000 cd183cf7-3c3f-4556-abe5-e911dfb0d8f7.vhdx <=== System Reserved (WinRE.wim) NTFS
10/18/2022 08:53 AM 1,528 BackupSpecs.xml

This is an MSDOS partitioned disk, so no ESP partition.

Directory of F:\WindowsImageBackup\WAFFLES\Backup 2017-12-10 075728

12/10/2017 413,138,944 00012035-0000-0000-0000-d0bf17000000.vhdx <=== System Reserved
12/10/2017 23,037,214,720 00012035-0000-0000-007e-000000000000.vhdx <=== C:
12/10/2017 1,276 BackupSpecs.xml

This one was generated in actual Windows 7, so it uses the .vhd format
that has a 2.2TB max file size. 7ZIP will open these files. Windows XP will
even mount a .vhd, but you need the tool Ben Armstrong wrote (VHDmount) at Microsoft
to do the mount, as the command is not built into WinXP as such.

Backup 2011-10-17 011010

10/16/2011 10:13 PM 41,956,352 203917be-715a-11df-93fa-806e6f6e6963.vhd
10/16/2011 10:55 PM 26,680,273,408 203917bf-715a-11df-93fa-806e6f6e6963.vhd
10/16/2011 10:21 PM 1,186 BackupSpecs.xml

*******

The part of the backup system that generates a series of ZIP files on your
external drive, you cannot take a victory lap when you see the ZIP file
extension, because there is a tiny "trick" to recovery. Several sequential
files have to be catted together, for "whole" files to come out of the
process. At least, passing one file to WinZIP or similar, the tool
will be unhappy with just a single file, and you have to "assemble"
an archive and feed it to your tool for the thing to work.

*******

While the Microsoft various bits and bobs make a fascinating
archeology study, they're hardly what you paid for. The integration
could be better.

Paul

On 11/25/2022 2:39 PM, Rod Speed wrote:
> On Fri, 25 Nov 2022 22:24:36 +1100, Ottavio Caruso <ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Op 24/11/2022 om 14:37 schreef Scott:
>>> What  do the people recommend as a backup system for a single PC?
>>>  I have tried Norton Ghost (discontinued), Acronis True Image (replaced
>>> by Acronis Cyber Protect Home Office - too much unnecessary content)
>>> and Macrium Reflect (far too complicated).
>>>  I don't need cloud backup.  I just need a simple system to create
>>> incremental backups on an external disc and preferably be able to
>>> restore to a new PC if necessary (I believe this is known as bare
>>> metal restore).  Could Windows be trusted with the job?
>>
>> Good ol' fashioned rsync.
>
> Doesn't do the incremental he needs.

This article is from six years ago, so the info could
be dated (like, the decline in the Acronis now-cruftware offering).
There was one version of Acronis that was very nice. Think of
the old version as "peak Acronis".

https://www.raymond.cc/blog/10-commercial-disk-imaging-software-features-and-backuprestore-speed-comparison/

https://www.raymond.cc/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/free_image_backup_results.png

Free Imaging Software
---------------------

AOMEI Backupper 1.6 Free incremental ?
Easeus Todo Backup 6.5 Free incremental ?
Paragon Backup & Recovery Free incremental ?

There are three products seemingly offering Free Incremental.

You'd have to test those, and see if it's just Trialware in disguise.

Paul

On Friday, 25 November 2022 at 19:39:42 UTC, rod.sp...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Fri, 25 Nov 2022 22:24:36 +1100, Ottavio Caruso
> <ottavio2006...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Op 24/11/2022 om 14:37 schreef Scott:
> >> What do the people recommend as a backup system for a single PC?
> >> I have tried Norton Ghost (discontinued), Acronis True Image (replaced
> >> by Acronis Cyber Protect Home Office - too much unnecessary content)
> >> and Macrium Reflect (far too complicated).
> >> I don't need cloud backup. I just need a simple system to create
> >> incremental backups on an external disc and preferably be able to
> >> restore to a new PC if necessary (I believe this is known as bare
> >> metal restore). Could Windows be trusted with the job?
> >
> > Good ol' fashioned rsync.
>
> Doesn't do the incremental he needs.

rsync copies only the changes needed to keep the backup
the same as the original. How is that not incremental?

John

On 24/11/2022 14:37, Scott wrote:
> What do the people recommend as a backup system for a single PC?
>
> I have tried Norton Ghost (discontinued), Acronis True Image (replaced
> by Acronis Cyber Protect Home Office - too much unnecessary content)
> and Macrium Reflect (far too complicated).
>

Announced 25th Nov

This is to notify that Macrium Reflect Free Edition is being retired.
Security patches will be provided until 1st January 2024, but there are
no planned feature changes or non security related updates following
this update.

This only applies to the free version.

--
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