How much is the farm worth? Fb post suggested maybe 2 million, but
other posts much more./. How are the shares allocated to the family?
Again fb suggested

Alice has 1 share. Brian & Jennifer have 3 each. Adam and Debbie have
2 each. Kate and Ruairi have one each.

I suppose because Adam and Debbie worked in the farm?

So the value of the farm divided is by 8 and Chris could claim half of
an eighth? But then he has a business too. How would the value of
his blacksmith shop compare to one eighth of the farm? And then
won't it depend on who looks after Martha? If Chris works and Alice is
a full or p/t mum does she need maintenance?

And does Alice own the cottage as well as the 1/8 of the farm?

On 26/04/2022 22:32, Vicky wrote:
> How much is the farm worth? Fb post suggested maybe 2 million, but
> other posts much more./. How are the shares allocated to the family?
> Again fb suggested
>
> Alice has 1 share. Brian & Jennifer have 3 each. Adam and Debbie have
> 2 each. Kate and Ruairi have one each.

If that is the share structure (which I have no reason to doubt), then
Alice owns 1 twelfth of the whole. If she sells her share back to the
others, then she should receive 1/12 of the value of the farm in cash.

The valuation needs to be a reasonable estimate, not just the nominal
share price (in my company the shares were valued at £1 - the company
had very few assets, but a 6 figure - just - turnover, so if we had gone
public [Hello Elon, IDSYT] the 15 shares would have been worth much more
than £1).

So AIUI whether it's shares or cash Chris will be entitled to the same
amount.

BrritSki <rtilburyTAKEAWAY@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 26/04/2022 22:32, Vicky wrote:
>> How much is the farm worth? Fb post suggested maybe 2 million, but
>> other posts much more./. How are the shares allocated to the family?
>> Again fb suggested
>>
>> Alice has 1 share. Brian & Jennifer have 3 each. Adam and Debbie have
>> 2 each. Kate and Ruairi have one each.
>
> If that is the share structure (which I have no reason to doubt), then
> Alice owns 1 twelfth of the whole. If she sells her share back to the
> others, then she should receive 1/12 of the value of the farm in cash.
>
> The valuation needs to be a reasonable estimate, not just the nominal
> share price (in my company the shares were valued at £1 - the company
> had very few assets, but a 6 figure - just - turnover, so if we had gone
> public [Hello Elon, IDSYT] the 15 shares would have been worth much more
> than £1).
>
> So AIUI whether it's shares or cash Chris will be entitled to the same
> amount.
>
>

The two cotts were given to Krait n Aliss in lieu of something I can’t
remember now? Or were given as rented?

Sincerely achris

On 27.4.22 08:42, BrritSki wrote:
> On 26/04/2022 22:32, Vicky wrote:
>> How much is the farm worth? Fb post suggested maybe 2 million, but
>> other posts much more./. How are the shares allocated to the family?
>> Again fb suggested
>>
>> Alice has 1 share. Brian & Jennifer have 3 each. Adam and Debbie have
>> 2 each. Kate and Ruairi have one each.
>
> If that is the share structure (which I have no reason to doubt), then
> Alice owns 1 twelfth of the whole. If she sells her share back to the
> others, then she should receive 1/12 of the value of the farm in cash.
>
> The valuation needs to be a reasonable estimate, not just the nominal
> share price (in my company the shares were valued at £1 - the company
> had very few assets, but a 6 figure - just - turnover, so if we had gone
> public [Hello Elon, IDSYT] the 15 shares would have been worth much more
> than £1).
>
> So AIUI whether it's shares or cash Chris will be entitled to the same
> amount.
>

1/13th. Chris is potentially entitled to 1/26th LESS the value of his
assets. Then there may be an adjustment if one parent or t'other is
sole carer.

I am sure I told Brian at the time that the partnership agreement needed
to be written to allow for such events.

--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics

On Wed, 27 Apr 2022 at 10:59:38, krw <krw@whitnet.uk> wrote (my
responses usually FOLLOW):
>On 27.4.22 08:42, BrritSki wrote:
>> On 26/04/2022 22:32, Vicky wrote:
>>> How much is the farm worth? Fb post suggested maybe 2 million, but
>>> other posts much more./. How are the shares allocated to the family?
>>> Again fb suggested
>>>
>>> Alice has 1 share. Brian & Jennifer have 3 each. Adam and Debbie have
>>> 2 each. Kate and Ruairi have one each.
>> If that is the share structure (which I have no reason to doubt),
>>then Alice owns 1 twelfth of the whole. If she sells her share back
>>to the others, then she should receive 1/12 of the value of the farm
>>in cash.
>> The valuation needs to be a reasonable estimate, not just the
>>nominal share price (in my company the shares were valued at £1 - the
>>company had very few assets, but a 6 figure - just - turnover, so if
>>we had gone public [Hello Elon, IDSYT] the 15 shares would have been
>>worth much more than £1).
>> So AIUI whether it's shares or cash Chris will be entitled to the
>>same amount.
>>
Not half that? I'd have thought that Chris-and-Alice have 1/12 (plus his
smithing business, including any premises actually owned [I cant
remember if he does - I remember discussion when his mentor retired, but
not the outcome, or whether there's a mortgage involved]), so if they
were to split (OK, when), he'd be entitled to 1/24 (and she to half his
business etc.). Of course, if Alice goes her own way, the rest of them
would have to yield up the whole twelfth, but Chris would only get half
of it surely?
>
>1/13th. Chris is potentially entitled to 1/26th LESS the value of his
>assets. Then there may be an adjustment if one parent or t'other is
>sole carer.

Indeed, adjustments for Martha's care.
>
>I am sure I told Brian at the time that the partnership agreement
>needed to be written to allow for such events.
>
As - at present - it looks like NeilAndSusan have no plans to leave
Ambridge, and BrianAndJenny haven't given any strong indications of such
an intent (though I could believe them making such a decision - Brian
has in the past come close to saying he's fed up of the whole farming
thing and could retire [and their Best Friends might want to too]) ...
anyway, assuming they don't leave the village, we could end up with a
genuine two-family feud, if they both _do_ remain in Ambridge. I was
trying to remember if we'd had similar before (including before I
started listening [which my .sig says was before 1985]); I'm aware there
was a sort of Grundy/Archer ill-feeling, but - other than
socio-political - I don't think that was based on any definite event,
just general "rude mechanicals" vs. landed gentry. (And I never really
thought of the Archers as that, just farmers, though at times prosperous
ones; gentry was Nigel's family.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"The right to be heard does not include the right to be taken seriously."
- Hubert H. Humphrey

On 27/04/2022 08:42, BrritSki wrote:
> On 26/04/2022 22:32, Vicky wrote:
>> How much is the farm worth? Fb post suggested maybe 2 million, but
>> other posts much more./. How are the shares allocated to the family?
>> Again fb suggested
>>
>> Alice has 1 share. Brian & Jennifer have 3 each. Adam and Debbie have
>> 2 each. Kate and Ruairi have one each.
>
> If that is the share structure (which I have no reason to doubt), then
> Alice owns 1 twelfth of the whole. If she sells her share back to the
> others, then she should receive 1/12 of the value of the farm in cash.
>
> The valuation needs to be a reasonable estimate, not just the nominal
> share price (in my company the shares were valued at £1 - the company
> had very few assets, but a 6 figure - just - turnover, so if we had gone
> public [Hello Elon, IDSYT] the 15 shares would have been worth much more
> than £1).
>
> So AIUI whether it's shares or cash Chris will be entitled to the same
> amount.
>

Agreed.

I don't see how buying Alice out is better than waiting for Chris to be
awarded part of her share then buying him out. As his share must be
smaller than her current share, surely they will have to scrape together
less money to buy him out.

--
CaroleT

On Sat, 30 Apr 2022 14:35:03 +0100, carolet <carolet.umrat@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On 27/04/2022 08:42, BrritSki wrote:
>> On 26/04/2022 22:32, Vicky wrote:
>>> How much is the farm worth? Fb post suggested maybe 2 million, but
>>> other posts much more./. How are the shares allocated to the family?
>>> Again fb suggested
>>>
>>> Alice has 1 share. Brian & Jennifer have 3 each. Adam and Debbie have
>>> 2 each. Kate and Ruairi have one each.
>>
>> If that is the share structure (which I have no reason to doubt), then
>> Alice owns 1 twelfth of the whole. If she sells her share back to the
>> others, then she should receive 1/12 of the value of the farm in cash.
>>
>> The valuation needs to be a reasonable estimate, not just the nominal
>> share price (in my company the shares were valued at £1 - the company
>> had very few assets, but a 6 figure - just - turnover, so if we had gone
>> public [Hello Elon, IDSYT] the 15 shares would have been worth much more
>> than £1).
>>
>> So AIUI whether it's shares or cash Chris will be entitled to the same
>> amount.
>>
>
>Agreed.
>
>I don't see how buying Alice out is better than waiting for Chris to be
>awarded part of her share then buying him out. As his share must be
>smaller than her current share, surely they will have to scrape together
>less money to buy him out.

Does the agreement mean that the other shareholders can force the
buyout of one shareholder against their will? I was assuming that they
wanted to buy out Alice while they could because she would be amenable
to the sale and understand why it was for the greater good. If on the
other hand Chris were to say, no thanks, I'm keeping my share and I
want a seat on the board, could they stop him?

Nick

On 30/04/2022 14:40, Nick Odell wrote:
> On Sat, 30 Apr 2022 14:35:03 +0100, carolet <carolet.umrat@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 27/04/2022 08:42, BrritSki wrote:
>>> On 26/04/2022 22:32, Vicky wrote:
>>>> How much is the farm worth? Fb post suggested maybe 2 million, but
>>>> other posts much more./. How are the shares allocated to the family?
>>>> Again fb suggested
>>>>
>>>> Alice has 1 share. Brian & Jennifer have 3 each. Adam and Debbie have
>>>> 2 each. Kate and Ruairi have one each.
>>>
>>> If that is the share structure (which I have no reason to doubt), then
>>> Alice owns 1 twelfth of the whole. If she sells her share back to the
>>> others, then she should receive 1/12 of the value of the farm in cash.
>>>
>>> The valuation needs to be a reasonable estimate, not just the nominal
>>> share price (in my company the shares were valued at £1 - the company
>>> had very few assets, but a 6 figure - just - turnover, so if we had gone
>>> public [Hello Elon, IDSYT] the 15 shares would have been worth much more
>>> than £1).
>>>
>>> So AIUI whether it's shares or cash Chris will be entitled to the same
>>> amount.
>>>
>>
>> Agreed.
>>
>> I don't see how buying Alice out is better than waiting for Chris to be
>> awarded part of her share then buying him out. As his share must be
>> smaller than her current share, surely they will have to scrape together
>> less money to buy him out.
>
> Does the agreement mean that the other shareholders can force the
> buyout of one shareholder against their will? I was assuming that they
> wanted to buy out Alice while they could because she would be amenable
> to the sale and understand why it was for the greater good. If on the
> other hand Chris were to say, no thanks, I'm keeping my share and I
> want a seat on the board, could they stop him?
>
> Nick

Good point, that could be a good reason to attempt the buyout now.

--
CaroleT

On 30/04/2022 14:40, Nick Odell wrote:
> On Sat, 30 Apr 2022 14:35:03 +0100, carolet <carolet.umrat@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 27/04/2022 08:42, BrritSki wrote:
>>> On 26/04/2022 22:32, Vicky wrote:
>>>> How much is the farm worth? Fb post suggested maybe 2 million, but
>>>> other posts much more./. How are the shares allocated to the family?
>>>> Again fb suggested
>>>>
>>>> Alice has 1 share. Brian & Jennifer have 3 each. Adam and Debbie have
>>>> 2 each. Kate and Ruairi have one each.
>>>
>>> If that is the share structure (which I have no reason to doubt), then
>>> Alice owns 1 twelfth of the whole. If she sells her share back to the
>>> others, then she should receive 1/12 of the value of the farm in cash.
>>>
>>> The valuation needs to be a reasonable estimate, not just the nominal
>>> share price (in my company the shares were valued at £1 - the company
>>> had very few assets, but a 6 figure - just - turnover, so if we had gone
>>> public [Hello Elon, IDSYT] the 15 shares would have been worth much more
>>> than £1).
>>>
>>> So AIUI whether it's shares or cash Chris will be entitled to the same
>>> amount.
>>>
>>
>> Agreed.
>>
>> I don't see how buying Alice out is better than waiting for Chris to be
>> awarded part of her share then buying him out. As his share must be
>> smaller than her current share, surely they will have to scrape together
>> less money to buy him out.
>
> Does the agreement mean that the other shareholders can force the
> buyout of one shareholder against their will? I was assuming that they
> wanted to buy out Alice while they could because she would be amenable
> to the sale and understand why it was for the greater good. If on the
> other hand Chris were to say, no thanks, I'm keeping my share and I
> want a seat on the board, could they stop him?
>
> Nick
This speculation is all very well but totally ignores the practicality.
One share is worth about £250,000. Who has the cash to offer that.
In fact if Brian (say) is the only one with such money, no-one else can
bid and he would get it at a ludicrous price.
Even if they could collective force one of the partners out {which is
very unlikely} where would that share go?
The only possible, practical change would be if they went into
liquidation and divided up the selling price.
--
Flop

On 30/04/2022 14:40, Nick Odell wrote:
> Does the agreement mean that the other shareholders can force the
> buyout of one shareholder against their will? I was assuming that they
> wanted to buy out Alice while they could because she would be amenable
> to the sale and understand why it was for the greater good. If on the
> other hand Chris were to say, no thanks, I'm keeping my share and I
> want a seat on the board, could they stop him?

Given that Chris's rationale for demanding his pound of flesh is to
provide him with the funds to take a back step from his business for a
few years, so that he can be a full time father, they're probably safe
from that option. If Chris had wanted that though, I don't know what
the legal options would be. If Alice has a single share, it might well
be impossible to convert that into two half shares, although Brian might
well prefer to have Chris as a share-holder, rather than have to sell
off some land to buy him out.

--
Best wishes, Serena
My friends and I have named our band ‘Duvet’. It’s a cover band.

Serena Blanchflower <nospam@blanchflower.me.uk> wrote:
> On 30/04/2022 14:40, Nick Odell wrote:
>> Does the agreement mean that the other shareholders can force the
>> buyout of one shareholder against their will? I was assuming that they
>> wanted to buy out Alice while they could because she would be amenable
>> to the sale and understand why it was for the greater good. If on the
>> other hand Chris were to say, no thanks, I'm keeping my share and I
>> want a seat on the board, could they stop him?
>
> Given that Chris's rationale for demanding his pound of flesh is to
> provide him with the funds to take a back step from his business for a
> few years, so that he can be a full time father, they're probably safe
> from that option. If Chris had wanted that though, I don't know what
> the legal options would be. If Alice has a single share, it might well
> be impossible to convert that into two half shares, although Brian might
> well prefer to have Chris as a share-holder, rather than have to sell
> off some land to buy him out.
>

What, sort of a Farrier rather than a Harrier?

--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan

On 30.4.22 22:18, Serena Blanchflower wrote:
> If Alice has a single share, it might well be impossible to convert that
> into two half shares, although Brian might well prefer to have Chris as
> a share-holder, rather than have to sell off some land to buy him out.

There should be explicit powers in the partnership to say that shares
can only be sold to other shareholders and to permit the sub-division of
a shareholding to allow for divorces and similar.

Being a partnership the Trust document should also specify who may
attend meetings - eg Rugrat was represented by Roof until he was old enough.

--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics