Rolls Royce, working with EasyJet are testing the use of hydrogen as a
fuel for short haul flights.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63758937

I wonder if only producing water as a combustion product might make
contrails thicker and improve their cooling effect on the planet.

--
Colin Bignell

On Mon, 28 Nov 2022 18:45:05 +0000
Colin Bignell <cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk> wrote:

> Rolls Royce, working with EasyJet are testing the use of hydrogen as
> a fuel for short haul flights.
>
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63758937
>
> I wonder if only producing water as a combustion product might make
> contrails thicker and improve their cooling effect on the planet.
>

Or the extra water molecules trap more heat...

--
Joe

On Mon, 28 Nov 2022 18:45:05 +0000, Colin Bignell
<cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk> wrote:

>
>Rolls Royce, working with EasyJet are testing the use of hydrogen as a
>fuel for short haul flights.
>
>https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63758937
>
>I wonder if only producing water as a combustion product might make
>contrails thicker and improve their cooling effect on the planet.

What, something like a Boeing 747 towing an R101?

--
Chris

On 28/11/2022 19:28, Chris Hogg wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Nov 2022 18:45:05 +0000, Colin Bignell
> <cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk> wrote:
>
>>
>> Rolls Royce, working with EasyJet are testing the use of hydrogen as a
>> fuel for short haul flights.
>>
>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63758937
>>
>> I wonder if only producing water as a combustion product might make
>> contrails thicker and improve their cooling effect on the planet.
>
> What, something like a Boeing 747 towing an R101?
>

I don't think 747s are used on short haul flights, but it would set a
record for an airship for both altitude and speed.

--
Colin Bignell

On 28/11/2022 18:59, Joe wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Nov 2022 18:45:05 +0000
> Colin Bignell <cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk> wrote:
>
>> Rolls Royce, working with EasyJet are testing the use of hydrogen as
>> a fuel for short haul flights.
>>
>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63758937
>>
>> I wonder if only producing water as a combustion product might make
>> contrails thicker and improve their cooling effect on the planet.
>>
>
> Or the extra water molecules trap more heat...
>

Contrails reflect solar energy by day, but do trap heat by night, so I
suppose it will depend upon the balance between the two and, possible,
when the flights are made.

--
Colin Bignell

On Mon, 28 Nov 2022 19:28:38 +0000, Chris Hogg <me@privacy.net> wrote:

>On Mon, 28 Nov 2022 18:45:05 +0000, Colin Bignell
><cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk> wrote:
>
>>
>>Rolls Royce, working with EasyJet are testing the use of hydrogen as a
>>fuel for short haul flights.
>>
>>https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63758937
>>
>>I wonder if only producing water as a combustion product might make
>>contrails thicker and improve their cooling effect on the planet.
>
>What, something like a Boeing 747 towing an R101?

I've just seen that the Artemis-1 moon rocket recently launched by
NASA was powered by 700,000 gallons of liquid hydrogen, so perhaps not
an R101 after all! https://tinyurl.com/2oo458do

--
Chris

On Mon, 28 Nov 2022 19:39:40 +0000, Colin Bignell
<cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk> wrote:

>On 28/11/2022 19:28, Chris Hogg wrote:
>> On Mon, 28 Nov 2022 18:45:05 +0000, Colin Bignell
>> <cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Rolls Royce, working with EasyJet are testing the use of hydrogen as a
>>> fuel for short haul flights.
>>>
>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63758937
>>>
>>> I wonder if only producing water as a combustion product might make
>>> contrails thicker and improve their cooling effect on the planet.
>>
>> What, something like a Boeing 747 towing an R101?
>>
>
>I don't think 747s are used on short haul flights, but it would set a
>record for an airship for both altitude and speed.

From memory I think only Lufthansa and one of the Korean carriers
still use 747s for scheduled flights. There are still a number of
freight operators and there may be some passenger aircraft that can be
called upon as needed.

When the 747 was in widespread use the only regular short haul use was
in Japan. Boeing built some for Japanese carriers specifically for use
on their domestic routes. Memory suggests that one JAL order for
747-400s was set up in such a way that it was a mixture or short haul
and long haul versions with the proviso that when the short haulers
reached a given number of landings or the long haulers a given number
of flight hours they could be converted from short to long or long to
short if necessary.

On 28/11/2022 19:39, Colin Bignell wrote:
> On 28/11/2022 19:28, Chris Hogg wrote:
>> On Mon, 28 Nov 2022 18:45:05 +0000, Colin Bignell
>> <cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Rolls Royce, working with EasyJet are testing the use of hydrogen as a
>>> fuel for short haul flights.
>>>
>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63758937
>>>
>>> I wonder if only producing water as a combustion product might make
>>> contrails thicker and improve their cooling effect on the planet.
>>
>> What, something like a Boeing 747 towing an R101?
>>
>
> I don't think 747s are used on short haul flights, but it would set a
> record for an airship for both altitude and speed.

Never mind short haul, many airlines have retired *all* their 747s.

On Mon, 28 Nov 2022 19:41:03 +0000, Colin Bignell
<cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk> wrote:

>On 28/11/2022 18:59, Joe wrote:
>> On Mon, 28 Nov 2022 18:45:05 +0000
>> Colin Bignell <cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> Rolls Royce, working with EasyJet are testing the use of hydrogen as
>>> a fuel for short haul flights.
>>>
>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63758937
>>>
>>> I wonder if only producing water as a combustion product might make
>>> contrails thicker and improve their cooling effect on the planet.
>>>
>>
>> Or the extra water molecules trap more heat...
>>
>
>Contrails reflect solar energy by day, but do trap heat by night, so I
>suppose it will depend upon the balance between the two and, possible,
>when the flights are made.

lots on contrails here https://wattsupwiththat.com/?s=contrails

--
Chris

This has been tried before. I think the fuel infrastructure was a major
issue. After all it is sometimes mixed with normal gas in mains supplies on
a trial basis. The question is, how sustainable is it, ie how much does it
cost to get the hydrogen one assumes from splitting water?
Brian

--

--:
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
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Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Colin Bignell" <cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk> wrote in message
news:UDKdnWDvF9ssnBj-nZ2dnZfqlJ9h4p2d@giganews.com...
>
> Rolls Royce, working with EasyJet are testing the use of hydrogen as a
> fuel for short haul flights.
>
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63758937
>
> I wonder if only producing water as a combustion product might make
> contrails thicker and improve their cooling effect on the planet.
>
> --
> Colin Bignell

On 29/11/2022 09:15, Brian Gaff wrote:
> This has been tried before. I think the fuel infrastructure was a major
> issue.

Presumably something that would be sorted out if it were to become a
commercial reality. The airports that were first to install it would be
the ones to get the new traffic, which would give them a financial
incentive.

The main problem they are talking about now is how to keep the hydrogen
cooled to keep it liquid while in an aircraft.

> After all it is sometimes mixed with normal gas in mains supplies on
> a trial basis. The question is, how sustainable is it, ie how much does it
> cost to get the hydrogen one assumes from splitting water?

The trial was run using green hydrogen, produced by the electrolysis of
water powered by renewable energy. They also mentioned blue hydrogen,
which is made using the commercial process, but with carbon capture, to
prevent it releasing CO2.

--
Colin Bignell

On 28/11/2022 19:46, Chris Hogg wrote:

<snip>
>
> I've just seen that the Artemis-1 moon rocket recently launched by
> NASA was powered by 700,000 gallons of liquid hydrogen, so perhaps not
> an R101 after all! https://tinyurl.com/2oo458do
>

So basically, it's a steam engine?

--
Cheers
Clive

On 29/11/2022 00:24, SteveW wrote:
> On 28/11/2022 19:39, Colin Bignell wrote:
>> On 28/11/2022 19:28, Chris Hogg wrote:
>>> On Mon, 28 Nov 2022 18:45:05 +0000, Colin Bignell
>>> <cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Rolls Royce, working with EasyJet are testing the use of hydrogen as a
>>>> fuel for short haul flights.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63758937
>>>>
>>>> I wonder if only producing water as a combustion product might make
>>>> contrails thicker and improve their cooling effect on the planet.
>>>
>>> What, something like a Boeing 747 towing an R101?
>>>
>>
>> I don't think 747s are used on short haul flights, but it would set a
>> record for an airship for both altitude and speed.
>
> Never mind short haul, many airlines have retired *all* their 747s.
>
I dint thunk there were any left in service apart from the military versions

--
Climate is what you expect but weather is what you get.
Mark Twain

On 29/11/2022 12:16, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 29/11/2022 00:24, SteveW wrote:

<snip>

>> Never mind short haul, many airlines have retired *all* their 747s.
>>
> I dint thunk there were any left in service apart from the military
> versions

Dickie Brainstorm has one, it's to be used at our local spaceport...

https://spaceportcornwall.com/the-launch/

--
Chers
Clive

On 29/11/2022 12:16, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 29/11/2022 00:24, SteveW wrote:
>> On 28/11/2022 19:39, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>> On 28/11/2022 19:28, Chris Hogg wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 28 Nov 2022 18:45:05 +0000, Colin Bignell
>>>> <cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Rolls Royce, working with EasyJet are testing the use of hydrogen as a
>>>>> fuel for short haul flights.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63758937
>>>>>
>>>>> I wonder if only producing water as a combustion product might make
>>>>> contrails thicker and improve their cooling effect on the planet.
>>>>
>>>> What, something like a Boeing 747 towing an R101?
>>>>
>>>
>>> I don't think 747s are used on short haul flights, but it would set a
>>> record for an airship for both altitude and speed.
>>
>> Never mind short haul, many airlines have retired *all* their 747s.
>>
> I dint thunk there were any left in service apart from the military
> versions

There are apparently a handful of airlines still using them - including
Lufthansa.

On 29/11/2022 12:15, Clive Arthur wrote:
> On 28/11/2022 19:46, Chris Hogg wrote:
>
> <snip>
>>
>> I've just seen that the Artemis-1 moon rocket recently launched by
>> NASA was powered by 700,000 gallons of liquid hydrogen, so perhaps not
>> an R101 after all! https://tinyurl.com/2oo458do
>>
>
> So basically, it's a steam engine?
>

If they had kept the H2 in gaseous form then it might have
lifted itself off :-)

Apparently the Germans used the linings of cows stomachs
to make the gas bags impervious to hydrogen, which by
nature of its low atomic weight is a tad leaky

On 29/11/2022 09:37, Colin Bignell wrote:
> On 29/11/2022 09:15, Brian Gaff wrote:
>> This has been tried before. I think the fuel infrastructure was  a major
>> issue.
>
> Presumably something that would be sorted out if it were to become a
> commercial reality. The airports that were first to install it would be
> the ones to get the new traffic, which would give them a financial
> incentive.
>
> The main problem they are talking about now is how to keep the hydrogen
> cooled to keep it liquid while in an aircraft.
>
>> After all it is sometimes mixed with normal gas in mains supplies on
>> a trial basis. The question is, how sustainable is it, ie how much
>> does it
>> cost to  get the hydrogen one assumes from splitting water?
>
> The trial was run using green hydrogen, produced by the electrolysis of
> water powered by renewable energy. They also mentioned blue hydrogen,
> which is made using the commercial process, but with carbon capture, to
> prevent it releasing CO2.
>

On todays 'Wake up to money' on R5 someone mentioned that the output
from wind dropped from 16.4 Gigawatts a couple of days ago to
0.4 Gigawatts today, which presumably is the reason for
yesterdays near brown-trouser incident at National Grid.

Brian Gaff wrote:

> how much does it cost to get the hydrogen one assumes from splitting water?

More than it costs to use the preferred industrial method which is steam
reforming of methane, which produces hydrogen as well as carbon monoxide and
carbon dioxide.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> SteveW wrote:
>
>> Never mind short haul, many airlines have retired *all* their 747s.
>
> I dint thunk there were any left in service apart from the military versions

Freighters.

SteveW wrote:

> There are apparently a handful of airlines still using them - including Lufthansa.

The penultimate 747 freight version has rolled-off the production line, for Kuhn
& Nagel, presumably it'll be around for a few decades?

On 29/11/2022 17:31, Andy Burns wrote:
> SteveW wrote:
>
>> There are apparently a handful of airlines still using them -
>> including Lufthansa.
>
> The penultimate 747 freight version has rolled-off the production line,
> for Kuhn & Nagel, presumably it'll be around for a few decades?

Yes. They will be around for freight for quite a long time, but there
are few airlines using them for passengers.

The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 29/11/2022 00:24, SteveW wrote:
>> On 28/11/2022 19:39, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>> On 28/11/2022 19:28, Chris Hogg wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 28 Nov 2022 18:45:05 +0000, Colin Bignell
>>>> <cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Rolls Royce, working with EasyJet are testing the use of hydrogen as a
>>>>> fuel for short haul flights.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63758937
>>>>>
>>>>> I wonder if only producing water as a combustion product might make
>>>>> contrails thicker and improve their cooling effect on the planet.
>>>>
>>>> What, something like a Boeing 747 towing an R101?
>>>>
>>>
>>> I don't think 747s are used on short haul flights, but it would set a
>>> record for an airship for both altitude and speed.
>>
>> Never mind short haul, many airlines have retired *all* their 747s.
>>
> I dint thunk there were any left in service apart from the military versions
>

If you sort for “747 family” there are a lot showing in flight on
Flightradar24. You can be more specific and look individual models too.

Tim
--
Please don't feed the trolls

On Mon, 28 Nov 2022 19:28:38 +0000, Chris Hogg wrote:

> On Mon, 28 Nov 2022 18:45:05 +0000, Colin Bignell
> <cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk> wrote:
>
>
>>Rolls Royce, working with EasyJet are testing the use of hydrogen as a
>>fuel for short haul flights.
>>
>>https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63758937
>>
>>I wonder if only producing water as a combustion product might make
>>contrails thicker and improve their cooling effect on the planet.
>
> What, something like a Boeing 747 towing an R101?

I would rather it be an R100. A lot safer.

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 28/11/2022 18:45, Colin Bignell wrote:
>
> Rolls Royce, working with EasyJet are testing the use of hydrogen as a
> fuel for short haul flights.
>
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63758937
>
> I wonder if only producing water as a combustion product might make
> contrails thicker and improve their cooling effect on the planet.
>
Thicker contrails will just make more chem-trail believers.

On 29/11/2022 17:28, Andy Burns wrote:
>
> Brian Gaff wrote:
>
>> how much does it cost to  get the hydrogen one assumes from splitting
>> water?
>
> More than it costs to use the preferred industrial method which is steam
> reforming of methane, which produces hydrogen as well as carbon monoxide
> and carbon dioxide.
>
That of course depends on the relative costs of electricity and methane.
--
Truth welcomes investigation because truth knows investigation will lead
to converts. It is deception that uses all the other techniques.