Sensible decision by DfT against people finding a "problem" out of nothing.

Transport minister Baroness Vere has told the House of Lords that the government has no plans to introduce specific legislation banning cyclists and e-scooter riders from using mobile phones while riding.

Speaking in a debate (link is external) tabled by fellow Conservative peer Baroness McIntosh of Pickering, who as Anne McIntosh was Member of Parliament for Vale of York from 1997 to 2010 and subsequently Vale of York until 2015, she also said that “It is really important that we do not demonise all cyclists.”

Baroness McIntosh had brought yesterday’s debate to express her regret that last month’s changes to Highway Code Rule 149, which now makes it an offence to use a hand-held mobile device for almost any purpose while driving, and not just to make and receive calls and texts, did not “go far enough” since it does not extend to people riding bikes, including e-bikes, or e-scooters.

“There must have been a very good reason why that was not the case,” she said, illustrating her point with an example taken from her journey by foot from her London flat to the Palace of Westminster ahead of the debate.

“I was midway across a pedestrian crossing and was approached by a cyclist on his mobile phone – one hand bicycling and one hand on the mobile phone – on the wrong side of the road, and it was not clear whether he was going to stop.

“Cyclists and those on e-scooters and e-bikes are using handheld phones inappropriately and I would like to understand why the Department [for Transport] has not addressed this issue,” she said. “That has to be a cause of concern.”

She also asked the government how it planned to respond to insurance trade body the ABI “about insuring e-scooters, e-bikes and bikes generally, and properly ensure the regulation of their use,” and when it would amend the law “to create criminal offences relating to dangerous, careless and inconsiderate cycling for users of pedal bikes, electronically assisted bikes and e-scooters, as for other motor vehicles.”

Baroness Pickering has twice previously tabled private member’s bills calling for an offence of dangerous cycling to be introduced – neither was successful, but she said yesterday she plans to introduce a third one – and has also tabled several questions in the House of Lords relating to people cycling on the pavement or riding their bikes through red traffic lights.

In her response to the motion, Baroness Vere, who is Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State at the Department for Transport, said that “Road safety is a key priority for the government,” and that revised wording of Highway Code Rule 149 reflects changes made to the law on 25 March this year.

“This change will make it much easier for the police to enforce the offence,” she said. “No longer will the police have to prove what the driver was doing on their phone; they will simply have to be satisfied that a driver was indeed using their phone while driving to impose the appropriate sanction.

“This should act as a substantial deterrent to those who might be tempted to pick up their phone and risk not only their own life but the lives of other road users.

“Cyclists and e-bike riders tend to be covered by other laws,” the minister continued. “The laws that we have changed most recently are under the Road Traffic Act, which tends to cover [motor] vehicles..

“However, like all road users, cyclists and e-bike riders are required to comply with many road traffic laws in the interests both of their own safety and that of other road users, and we reflect that in the Highway Code.

“So, it is not a specific offence to cycle and use a mobile phone or headphones, but cyclists and e-bike riders can be prosecuted by the police for careless and dangerous cycling, with maximum fines of £1,000 and £2,500 respectively.

“It is really important that we do not demonise all cyclists,” she said, while acknowledging that “there are some bad apples out there, and we need to make sure that they are held to account,” and that the government “want to ensure that we crack down on reckless cyclists.

“We launched a review exploring the case for a specific dangerous cycling offence, and we are looking at what we will do next and will publish our response shortly.”

On the subject of e-scooter riders using mobile phones, the minister said: “It is the case that an e-scooter user falls under the regulations, and it is an offence to use a hand-held mobile phone on an e-scooter. They can be fined, and they could also get six penalty points.

“I reiterate that we do not feel that our approach to the Highway Code has been incorrect,” Baroness Vere said.

“In the circumstances we were presented with, it was important to choose specific topics and put them into the Highway Code when they were ready, or when either the law had changed or the consultation had reached its natural conclusion.

“We will continue to do so, but of course we will combine changes if it makes sense to do so,” she added. “The next big change probably will be automated vehicles.”

In response to the minister’s comments, in her closing remarks to the debate, Baroness McIntosh said: “I look forward to seeing how automated vehicles will respond to reckless and furious cyclists, e-bicyclists and e-scooters, but we live to fight another day.”

https://road.cc/content/news/minister-no-plans-offence-cycling-while-using-phone-291749

Rendel Harris replied to the little onion | 2163 posts | 7 hours ago
6 likes
the little onion wrote:

Can anyone point to a case where a pedestrian was harmed when a cyclist on a phone collided with them? Google suggests not. All it produces is instances, some tragically fatal, where a cyclist collides with a pedestrian on their phone

No, I've had a reasonably thorough look around to see if there's any evidence for a certain sub-bridge-dweller's claim that it "can and does" cause the death and injury of pedestrians, can't find a single instance anywhere in the world. I would hazard a guess that this is because, unlike with drivers, cyclists using phones (and I see a fair few in London, mostly Deliveroo etc) generally do so at walking pace, usually trying to check satnav or receive orders. I've never, ever seen someone riding 20mph+ and using a phone. It's still a stupid thing to do in my opinion, but unlikely, as Google shows, to have tragic results.

On 07/04/2022 20:38, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:

> Can anyone point to a case where a pedestrian was harmed when a cyclist on a phone collided with them? Google suggests not. All it produces is instances, some tragically fatal, where a cyclist collides with a pedestrian on their phone

This guy faceplanted into the back of a van...

<https://www.republicworld.com/entertainment-news/whats-viral/dont-text-and-bike-cyclist-busy-on-phone-crashes-into-parked-van-watch.html>

....or this one...

"The cyclist appeared to be looking at a device..."

"They can then be seen hitting the floor..."

"...the back window was wrecked..."

Perhaps the cyclist shouldn't have been:

Illuminating the screen
Checking the time
Checking notifications
Unlocking the device
Making, receiving, or rejecting a telephone or internet based call
Sending, receiving or uploading oral or written content
Sending, receiving or uploading a photo or video
Utilising camera, video, or sound recording,
Drafting any text
Accessing any stored data such as:
documents, books, audio files, photos, videos, films, playlists,
notes or messages
Accessing an app
Accessing the internet

This is the dramatic moment a cyclist smashed into a parked car in a
Black Country street.

CCTV footage has shown a biker, who was dressed in black clothing with a
blue scarf, crash head-on into the rear of a white Nissan Qashqai.

They can then be seen hitting the floor before stumbling back on their
feet moments before the clip ends. You can watch the video above.

The cyclist appeared to be looking at a device in their right-hand
moments before the crash.

The nephew of the car owner has said the back window was wrecked
following the crash which happened in Roebuck Lane, Oldbury, on
Saturday, August 7.

Gurj Singh, an estate agent in Birmingham, told BlackCountryLive that he
was 'shocked' to see the footage.

The clip was shared in the I Live in West Bromwich Facebook group and
was inundated with likes and comments.

One social media user wrote: "Daft sod, hope that knocked some sense
into them and taught them to watch where they're going!"

While another simply commented: "Hilarious".

<https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/black-country/watch-distracted-cyclist-smashes-parked-21269073>

--
Spike

--
Spike

On Thursday, April 7, 2022 at 12:55:16 PM UTC+1, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
> Sensible decision by DfT against people finding a "problem" out of nothing.
>
>
Bucks Cycle Cammer | 137 posts | 19 hours ago
8 likes
Baroness McIntosh said: “I look forward to seeing how automated vehicles will respond to reckless and furious cyclists, e-bicyclists and e-scooters, but we live to fight another day.”

I'm more concerned with how they'll respond to the 99.9% of ordinary cyclists (not sure why e-bicyclists is a separate thing) and e-scooterists, and pedestrians - given they can't even correctly respond to completely stationary cycle lanes and bollards right now.

QUITE.

On 08/04/2022 10:05, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, April 7, 2022 at 12:55:16 PM UTC+1, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:

>> Sensible decision by DfT against people finding a "problem" out of nothing.

> Bucks Cycle Cammer | 137 posts | 19 hours ago
> 8 likes

> Baroness McIntosh said: “I look forward to seeing how automated vehicles will respond to reckless and furious cyclists, e-bicyclists and e-scooters, but we live to fight another day.”

> I'm more concerned with how they'll respond to the 99.9% of ordinary cyclists (not sure why e-bicyclists is a separate thing) and e-scooterists, and pedestrians - given they can't even correctly respond to completely stationary cycle lanes and bollards right now.

> QUITE.

SAFER CYCLISTS FOR ROADS!

--
Spike

On Thursday, April 7, 2022 at 12:55:16 PM UTC+1, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
> Sensible decision by DfT against people finding a "problem" out of nothing.

QUOTE: Labour peer, Baroness Vere of Norbiton, Parliamentary Under Secretary of State at the Department for Transport said "The Government considers that ... cycles involved in collisions on the highway are ***highly unlikely*** to cause serious injury to other road users. ENDS

On 08/04/2022 14:15, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, April 7, 2022 at 12:55:16 PM UTC+1, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:

>> Sensible decision by DfT against people finding a "problem" out of nothing.
> QUOTE: Labour peer, Baroness Vere of Norbiton, Parliamentary Under Secretary of State at the Department for Transport said "The Government considers that ... cycles involved in collisions on the highway are ***highly unlikely*** to cause serious injury to other road users. ENDS

Charlotte Sarah Emily Vere, Baroness Vere of Norbiton (born 9 March
1969) is a British *Conservative* politician and member of the House of
Lords. She serves also as a Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State in
the Department for Transport and was executive director of the Girls'
Schools Association from 2013 to 2016.

More information on this *Conservative* peer at the link below.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlotte_Vere,_Baroness_Vere_of_Norbiton>

--
Spike

On Friday, April 8, 2022 at 3:15:54 PM UTC+1, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, April 7, 2022 at 12:55:16 PM UTC+1, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Sensible decision by DfT against people finding a "problem" out of nothing.
> QUOTE: Labour peer, Baroness Vere of Norbiton, Parliamentary Under Secretary of State at the Department for Transport said "The Government considers that ... cycles involved in collisions on the highway are ***highly unlikely*** to cause serious injury to other road users. ENDS

Government confirms it has “no plans” to make cyclists wear identification numbers as it rejects ‘Mr Loophole’ petition.

The Government has no plans to introduce any such requirements for cyclists. The current trials of rental e-scooters will inform future policy on them.

The Government considers that the costs of a formal registration system for cycle ownership would outweigh the benefits. The safety case for such a system is not as strong as that for drivers since, by contrast with motorised vehicles, cycles involved in collisions on the highway are highly unlikely to cause serious injury to other road users.

Cycling provides clear benefits, both for those cycling (particularly in terms of health) and for wider society (tackling congestion, reducing CO2 emissions and improved air quality). The introduction of a licensing system would significantly reduce these benefits, especially over the short term.. Over the long term, it would deny children and young adults from enjoying the mobility and health benefits cycling brings until they were old enough to pass a formal test.

The introduction of a system of licensing would also be likely to lead to a reduction in the number of people cycling. This would be at odds with the Prime Minister’s plans to boost walking and cycling. The Prime Minister’s Cycling and Walking Plan (Gear Change) can be viewed here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/cycling-and-walking-plan-for-england (link is external).

Furthermore, the National Travel Survey indicates that a very high proportion of people who cycle regularly also hold a driving licence. The absence of a licensing system does not prevent a cyclist from being liable for their actions. The police and ultimately the courts, can take into account all the circumstances of an incident and judge accordingly.

Cycle lanes, where provided, offer people cycling an alternative to cycling in the main carriageway, but it is not compulsory to use them and the Government has no plans to change this. The majority of people cycling generally use cycle lanes, but there are times when it may be more appropriate for them to use the main carriageway, such as when they are overtaking slower people cycling or avoiding obstructions on the cycle lane, or where it offers a faster, more direct route.

The Government has announced ambitious plans for walking and cycling, and has committed an unprecedented £2 billion of funding for active travel over 5 years which includes the roll-out of segregated cycle lanes in towns and cities and offering cycle training to everyone who wants to undertake it, whether free or at a nominal charge. This investment coupled with the recently announced changes to The Highway Code will deliver increased safety for the most vulnerable road users and ensure a more mutually respectful and considerate culture of safe and effective road use that benefits all users.

The Government is currently running trials of rental e-scooters to assess their safety and the impacts they have on the road and to inform the development of future policy. 31 trial areas are currently operating across England.

Trial e-scooters are limited to 15.5 mph and are exempted from vehicle registration and licensing requirements. E-scooters must not be used on pavements. Those taking part in the trials need a full or provisional driving licence, meaning that the minimum age of those using the scooters should be 16 years old. Cycle helmets are strongly recommended but are not mandatory.. All trial e-scooters must meet minimum construction standards and have a minimum of third-party insurance provided by the e-scooter operator.

Guidance on the rules for trials has been published at: www.gov.uk/guidance/e-scooter-trials-guidance-for-users (link is external).

Outside of the rental trials, e-scooters are still subject to the Road Traffic Act 1988 and are defined as a type of motor vehicle. Users of e-scooters will need to have insurance, driving licences, number plates and helmets, and the vehicles will need to meet the relevant construction requirements. The law was not drafted with e-scooters in mind, so users of e-scooters will find it a challenge to comply. Guidance on this can be found at: www..gov.uk/government/publications/powered-transporters/information-sheet-guidance-on-powered-transporters (link is external).

On 08/04/2022 17:11, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, April 8, 2022 at 3:15:54 PM UTC+1, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:

> Government confirms it has “no plans” to make cyclists wear identification numbers as it rejects ‘Mr Loophole’ petition.

> The Government has no plans to introduce any such requirements for cyclists. The current trials of rental e-scooters will inform future policy on them.

> Cycling provides clear benefits, both for those cycling (particularly in terms of health)

What beneficial effect does cycling have on the one in three who become
cancer victims?

> The Government is currently running trials of rental e-scooters to assess their safety and the impacts they have on the road and to inform the development of future policy. 31 trial areas are currently operating across England.

What are the health benefits of e-scooters?

Sounds like a massive case of virtue-signalling.

--
Spike

QUOTE:
Government confirms it has “no plans” to make cyclists wear identification numbers as it rejects ‘Mr Loophole’ petition. ENDS

Mr Arsehole seems to have gone very quiet after his regular pastings with his anti-cycling petitions. :-)
Serial failure.

On 08/04/2022 18:30, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:

> QUOTE:
> Government confirms it has “no plans” to make cyclists wear identification numbers as it rejects ‘Mr Loophole’ petition. ENDS

> Mr Arsehole seems to have gone very quiet after his regular pastings with his anti-cycling petitions. :-)

The Minister for Transport is merely kicking the problems of cyclists
into the long grass.

> Serial failure.

SAFER CYCLISTS FOR ROADS!

--
Spike

On Friday, April 8, 2022 at 7:30:17 PM UTC+1, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
> QUOTE:
> Government confirms it has “no plans” to make cyclists wear identification numbers as it rejects ‘Mr Loophole’ petition. ENDS
>
> Mr Arsehole seems to have gone very quiet after his regular pastings with his anti-cycling petitions. :-)
> Serial failure.

He seems to be attacking e-scooters instead now.

@TheMrLoophole
Was on @talkradio
talking to @iromg
about dangers of escooters and lack of meaningful legislation. #escooters

On 09/04/2022 09:52, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, April 8, 2022 at 7:30:17 PM UTC+1, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
>> QUOTE:
>> Government confirms it has “no plans” to make cyclists wear identification numbers as it rejects ‘Mr Loophole’ petition. ENDS

>> Mr Arsehole seems to have gone very quiet after his regular pastings with his anti-cycling petitions. :-)
>> Serial failure.

> He seems to be attacking e-scooters instead now.

> @TheMrLoophole
> Was on @talkradio
> talking to @iromg
> about dangers of escooters and lack of meaningful legislation. #escooters

What are the touted health benefits of e-scooters?

--
Spike

@talkRADIO
and
@Iromg
Surely a form of transport which kills 5 people a day on UK roads would be more dangerous. Especially when there are dodgy people who help get the dangerous drivers off on technicalities.

MEEOW! :-)

On 09/04/2022 11:53, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:

> @talkRADIO
> and
> @Iromg
> Surely a form of transport which kills 5 people a day on UK roads would be more dangerous. Especially when there are dodgy people who help get the dangerous drivers off on technicalities.

> MEEOW! :-)

APPLES AND ORANGES

--
Spike

> Sensible decision by DfT against people finding a "problem" out of nothing.
>
> Transport minister Baroness Vere has told the House of Lords that the government has no plans to introduce specific legislation banning cyclists and e-scooter riders from using mobile phones while riding.
>
> Speaking in a debate (link is external) tabled by fellow Conservative peer Baroness McIntosh of Pickering, who as Anne McIntosh was Member of Parliament for Vale of York from 1997 to 2010 and subsequently Vale of York until 2015, she also said that “It is really important that we do not demonise all cyclists.”
>
> Baroness McIntosh had brought yesterday’s debate to express her regret that last month’s changes to Highway Code Rule 149, which now makes it an offence to use a hand-held mobile device for almost any purpose while driving, and not just to make and receive calls and texts, did not “go far enough” since it does not extend to people riding bikes, including e-bikes, or e-scooters.
>
> “There must have been a very good reason why that was not the case,” she said, illustrating her point with an example taken from her journey by foot from her London flat to the Palace of Westminster ahead of the debate.
>
> “I was midway across a pedestrian crossing and was approached by a cyclist on his mobile phone – one hand bicycling and one hand on the mobile phone – on the wrong side of the road, and it was not clear whether he was going to stop.
>
> “Cyclists and those on e-scooters and e-bikes are using handheld phones inappropriately and I would like to understand why the Department [for Transport] has not addressed this issue,” she said. “That has to be a cause of concern.”
>
> She also asked the government how it planned to respond to insurance trade body the ABI “about insuring e-scooters, e-bikes and bikes generally, and properly ensure the regulation of their use,” and when it would amend the law “to create criminal offences relating to dangerous, careless and inconsiderate cycling for users of pedal bikes, electronically assisted bikes and e-scooters, as for other motor vehicles.”
>
> Baroness Pickering has twice previously tabled private member’s bills calling for an offence of dangerous cycling to be introduced – neither was successful, but she said yesterday she plans to introduce a third one – and has also tabled several questions in the House of Lords relating to people cycling on the pavement or riding their bikes through red traffic lights.
>
> In her response to the motion, Baroness Vere, who is Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State at the Department for Transport, said that “Road safety is a key priority for the government,” and that revised wording of Highway Code Rule 149 reflects changes made to the law on 25 March this year.
>
> “This change will make it much easier for the police to enforce the offence,” she said. “No longer will the police have to prove what the driver was doing on their phone; they will simply have to be satisfied that a driver was indeed using their phone while driving to impose the appropriate sanction.
>
> “This should act as a substantial deterrent to those who might be tempted to pick up their phone and risk not only their own life but the lives of other road users.
>
> “Cyclists and e-bike riders tend to be covered by other laws,” the minister continued. “The laws that we have changed most recently are under the Road Traffic Act, which tends to cover [motor] vehicles.
>
> “However, like all road users, cyclists and e-bike riders are required to comply with many road traffic laws in the interests both of their own safety and that of other road users, and we reflect that in the Highway Code.
>
> “So, it is not a specific offence to cycle and use a mobile phone or headphones, but cyclists and e-bike riders can be prosecuted by the police for careless and dangerous cycling, with maximum fines of £1,000 and £2,500 respectively.
>
> “It is really important that we do not demonise all cyclists,” she said, while acknowledging that “there are some bad apples out there, and we need to make sure that they are held to account,” and that the government “want to ensure that we crack down on reckless cyclists.
>
> “We launched a review exploring the case for a specific dangerous cycling offence, and we are looking at what we will do next and will publish our response shortly.”
>
> On the subject of e-scooter riders using mobile phones, the minister said: “It is the case that an e-scooter user falls under the regulations, and it is an offence to use a hand-held mobile phone on an e-scooter. They can be fined, and they could also get six penalty points.
>
> “I reiterate that we do not feel that our approach to the Highway Code has been incorrect,” Baroness Vere said.
>
> “In the circumstances we were presented with, it was important to choose specific topics and put them into the Highway Code when they were ready, or when either the law had changed or the consultation had reached its natural conclusion.
>
> “We will continue to do so, but of course we will combine changes if it makes sense to do so,” she added. “The next big change probably will be automated vehicles.”
>
> In response to the minister’s comments, in her closing remarks to the debate, Baroness McIntosh said: “I look forward to seeing how automated vehicles will respond to reckless and furious cyclists, e-bicyclists and e-scooters, but we live to fight another day.”
>
> https://road.cc/content/news/minister-no-plans-offence-cycling-while-using-phone-291749

I rarely text but I do take calls and look at the local weather report for sunset time, wind speed and direction.

On Saturday, April 9, 2022 at 2:28:00 PM UTC+1, bretc...@aol.com wrote:
>
> I rarely text but I do take calls and look at the local weather report for sunset time, wind speed and direction.

I prefer my Acer Aspire S7 Ultrabook - cell phones are too small. How anyone types on one is beyond me.

On 09/04/2022 15:53, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:

> I prefer my Acer Aspire S7 Ultrabook - cell phones are too small. How anyone types on one is beyond me.

This guy was forced to stop typing:

<https://www.republicworld.com/entertainment-news/whats-viral/dont-text-and-bike-cyclist-busy-on-phone-crashes-into-parked-van-watch.html>

--
Spike

On Saturday, April 9, 2022 at 2:28:00 PM UTC+1, bretc...@aol.com wrote:

> I rarely text but I do take calls and look at the local weather report for sunset time, wind speed and direction.

I check those BEFORE I go out!

On 09/04/2022 04:53 pm, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:

> On Saturday, April 9, 2022 at 2:28:00 PM UTC+1, bretc...@aol.com wrote:
>>
>> I rarely text but I do take calls and look at the local weather report for sunset time, wind speed and direction.
>
> I prefer my Acer Aspire S7 Ultrabook - cell phones are too small. How anyone types on one is beyond me.

You type on a laptop whilst fairy-cycling?

FX: Low whistle...

Does the "ministe" recommend that?

> > I rarely text but I do take calls and look at the local weather report for sunset time, wind speed and direction.
> I check those BEFORE I go out!

Always!

On 09/04/2022 17:19, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, April 9, 2022 at 2:28:00 PM UTC+1, bretc...@aol.com wrote:

>> I rarely text but I do take calls and look at the local weather report for sunset time, wind speed and direction.

> I check those BEFORE I go out!

Well, at least it lowers the risk of faceplanting into something solid.

<https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/black-country/watch-distracted-cyclist-smashes-parked-21269073>

--
Spike

On Saturday, April 9, 2022 at 2:28:00 PM UTC+1, bretc...@aol.com wrote:

> I rarely text but I do take calls and look at the local weather report for sunset time, wind speed and direction.

Can you get a signal out in the desert?

On 10/04/2022 10:20, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, April 9, 2022 at 2:28:00 PM UTC+1, bretc...@aol.com wrote:

>> I rarely text but I do take calls and look at the local weather report for sunset time, wind speed and direction.

> Can you get a signal out in the desert?

Prolly get a smoke signal...

--
Spike

On Sunday, April 10, 2022 at 1:33:32 AM UTC+1, bretc...@aol.com wrote:
> > > I rarely text but I do take calls and look at the local weather report for sunset time, wind speed and direction.
> > I check those BEFORE I go out!
> Always!

When I was at work, I had a tab on my work's desktop with xcweather on it showing the wind direction and speed for the ride home. Since I worked not far from the North Sea it was not unusual to get a backwind on both legs of the commute.