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aus+uk / aus.legal / Country gate closure.

SubjectAuthor
* Country gate closure.Peter Jason
`* Re: Country gate closure.Rod Speed
 `* Re: Country gate closure.Peter Jason
  `* Re: Country gate closure.Rod Speed
   `* Re: Country gate closure.Peter Jason
    +* Re: Country gate closure.Pete
    |+- Re: Country gate closure.Peter Jason
    |`* Re: Country gate closure.Petzl
    | `* Re: Country gate closure.Rod Speed
    |  `- Re: Country gate closure.Petzl
    +- Re: Country gate closure.Rod Speed
    `* Re: Country gate closure.Phil Allison
     `- Re: Country gate closure.Rod Speed

1
Country gate closure.

<c246jipl8ss4nd95nhspjqfl9eqqa05803@4ax.com>

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From: pj...@jostle.com (Peter Jason)
Newsgroups: aus.legal
Subject: Country gate closure.
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2023 10:45:05 +1100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Peter Jason - Fri, 20 Oct 2023 23:45 UTC

One old rule was to leave a gate open if it was open, and close it
after you if it was closed. Given that the stock can wander thru an
open gate and cause loss to the grazier, is this rule enforceable in
law, especially with all the CCTV devices now available?

Re: Country gate closure.

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From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: aus.legal
Subject: Re: Country gate closure.
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2023 11:43:02 +1100
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 by: Rod Speed - Sat, 21 Oct 2023 00:43 UTC

Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote

> One old rule was to leave a gate open if it wasopen, and close it after
> you if it was closed.

It's still a current rule.

> Given that the stock can wander thru an
> open gate and cause loss to the grazier,

Gates arent just on the boundary of the property,
stupid, they are also seen between paddocks.
and stock are rotated between paddocks.

> is this rule enforceable in law,

No.

> especially with all the CCTV devices now available?

What the fuck has that to do with anything ?

Re: Country gate closure.

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From: pj...@jostle.com (Peter Jason)
Newsgroups: aus.legal
Subject: Re: Country gate closure.
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2023 13:10:35 +1100
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 by: Peter Jason - Sat, 21 Oct 2023 02:10 UTC

On Sat, 21 Oct 2023 11:43:02 +1100, "Rod Speed"
<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

>Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote
>
>> One old rule was to leave a gate open if it wasopen, and close it after
>> you if it was closed.
>
>It's still a current rule.
>
>> Given that the stock can wander thru an
>> open gate and cause loss to the grazier,
>
>Gates arent just on the boundary of the property,
>stupid, they are also seen between paddocks.
>and stock are rotated between paddocks.

Yes. I meant the property boundary, of course.
>
>> is this rule enforceable in law,
>
>No.
>
>> especially with all the CCTV devices now available?
>
>What the fuck has that to do with anything ?

It's easier to identify the miscreant?

Re: Country gate closure.

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From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: aus.legal
Subject: Re: Country gate closure.
Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2023 16:13:55 +1100
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 by: Rod Speed - Sun, 22 Oct 2023 05:13 UTC

Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote

>>> One old rule was to leave a gate open if it wasopen, and close it
>>> after you if it was closed.

>> It's still a current rule.

>>> Given that the stock can wander thru an
>>> open gate and cause loss to the grazier,

>> Gates arent just on the boundary of the property,
>> stupid, they are also seen between paddocks.
>> and stock are rotated between paddocks.

> Yes. I meant the property boundary, of course.

That was never the rule with the property boundary gate.

>>> is this rule enforceable in law,

>> No.

>>> especially with all the CCTV devices now available?

>> What the fuck has that to do with anything ?

> It's easier to identify the miscreant?

It was never the reason for the rule.

Re: Country gate closure.

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From: pj...@jostle.com (Peter Jason)
Newsgroups: aus.legal
Subject: Re: Country gate closure.
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 08:56:55 +1100
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 by: Peter Jason - Sun, 22 Oct 2023 21:56 UTC

On Sun, 22 Oct 2023 16:13:55 +1100, "Rod Speed"
<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

>Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote
>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote
>
>>>> One old rule was to leave a gate open if it wasopen, and close it
>>>> after you if it was closed.
>
>>> It's still a current rule.
>
>>>> Given that the stock can wander thru an
>>>> open gate and cause loss to the grazier,
>
>>> Gates arent just on the boundary of the property,
>>> stupid, they are also seen between paddocks.
>>> and stock are rotated between paddocks.
>
>> Yes. I meant the property boundary, of course.
>
>That was never the rule with the property boundary gate.
>
>>>> is this rule enforceable in law,
>
>>> No.
>
>>>> especially with all the CCTV devices now available?
>
>>> What the fuck has that to do with anything ?
>
>> It's easier to identify the miscreant?
>
>It was never the reason for the rule.

Let me give you a clearer explanation. Say some city folk wont to go
mushrooming in a paddock containing several prize bulls and cows.

When finished, they leave the gate open.

The bulls and cows escape and some are mown down by speeding drunken
hoons.

The grazier is out of pocket several $$umpteen dollars.

Cannot the grazier sue the mushroomers? Assuming he's got CCTV
evidence.

Where can I get records of typical and relevant court cases?

English common law must apply given the enclosure laws of the 16th
century?

Re: Country gate closure.

<uh49bq$2mnvc$1@dont-email.me>

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From: pjet...@yahoo.com (Pete)
Newsgroups: aus.legal
Subject: Re: Country gate closure.
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 09:56:58 +1100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Pete - Sun, 22 Oct 2023 22:56 UTC

> Where can I get records of typical and relevant court cases?

Some of these (found with a simple Google search) might be relevant.

https://www.google.com/search?q=court+cases+about+leaving+farm+gates+open

Peter

Re: Country gate closure.

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From: pj...@jostle.com (Peter Jason)
Newsgroups: aus.legal
Subject: Re: Country gate closure.
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 10:19:56 +1100
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 by: Peter Jason - Sun, 22 Oct 2023 23:19 UTC

On Mon, 23 Oct 2023 09:56:58 +1100, Pete <pjetson@yahoo.com> wrote:

>> Where can I get records of typical and relevant court cases?
>
>Some of these (found with a simple Google search) might be relevant.
>
>https://www.google.com/search?q=court+cases+about+leaving+farm+gates+open
>
>Peter

Thank you very much; I'll check these out.

Re: Country gate closure.

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From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: aus.legal
Subject: Re: Country gate closure.
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 12:06:44 +1100
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 by: Rod Speed - Mon, 23 Oct 2023 01:06 UTC

Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote

>>>>> One old rule was to leave a gate open if it was
>>>>> open, and close it after you if it was closed.

>>>> It's still a current rule.

>>>>> Given that the stock can wander thru an
>>>>> open gate and cause loss to the grazier,

>>>> Gates arent just on the boundary of the property,
>>>> stupid, they are also seen between paddocks.
>>>> and stock are rotated between paddocks.

>>> Yes. I meant the property boundary, of course.

>> That was never the rule with the property boundary gate.

>>>>> is this rule enforceable in law,

>>>> No.

>>>>> especially with all the CCTV devices now available?

>>>> What the fuck has that to do with anything ?

>>> It's easier to identify the miscreant?

>> It was never the reason for the rule.

> Let me give you a clearer explanation.

You failed, as always.

> Say some city folk wont to go mushrooming in apaddock containing
> several prize bulls and cows.

> When finished, they leave the gate open.

That was never the rule with the property boundary gate.

> The bulls and cows escape and some aremown down by speeding drunken
> hoons.

Nothing has changed in that regard except that the cars can
go faster but are much more likely to no longer be drivable
at all due to crumple zones if they do run down a prize bull.

> The grazier is out of pocket several $$umpteen dollars.

Nope, they just claim on the insurance or make the
hoon pay for the prize bulls it turns into dog food.

> Cannot the grazier sue the mushroomers?

Corse he can, and that has absolutely nothing to do with that rule.

> Assuming he's got CCTV evidence.

Very few have CCTV on their property boundary gate.

> Where can I get records of typical and relevant court cases?

The usual place for court records, but very few of those situations
would ever get to court, because few have CCTV on their property
gate, very few would drive thru a property gate to go mushrooming,
they would just park on the road and go thru the fence.

> English common law must apply given the enclosure laws of the 16th
> century?

Not necessarily if the state has done black letter law since then on that
matter.

Re: Country gate closure.

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Subject: Re: Country gate closure.
From: palliso...@gmail.com (Phil Allison)
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 by: Phil Allison - Mon, 23 Oct 2023 03:37 UTC

Peter Jason wrote:
===============
>
>
> Let me give you a clearer explanation. Say some city folk wont to go
> mushrooming in a paddock containing several prize bulls and cows.
> When finished, they leave the gate open.
> The bulls and cows escape and some are mown down by speeding drunken
> hoons.
>
> The grazier is out of pocket several $$umpteen dollars.
>
> Cannot the grazier sue the mushroomers? Assuming he's got CCTV
> evidence.

** The mushroomers were arguably negligent in leaving the gate open, but are not responsible for the loss of valuable animals.
OTOH, the property owner contributed significantly to the loss by not pad locking the gate and allowing folk to collect his mushrooms.

A court would likely rule there was no case to answer against the mushroomers.

..... Phil

Re: Country gate closure.

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From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: aus.legal
Subject: Re: Country gate closure.
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 16:42:18 +1100
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 by: Rod Speed - Mon, 23 Oct 2023 05:42 UTC

Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote
> Peter Jason wrote

>> Let me give you a clearer explanation. Say some city folk wont to go
>> mushrooming in a paddock containing several prize bulls and cows.
>> When finished, they leave the gate open.

>> The bulls and cows escape and some are mown down by speeding drunken
>> hoons.

>> The grazier is out of pocket several $$umpteen dollars.

>> Cannot the grazier sue the mushroomers? Assuming he's got CCTV
>> evidence.

> The mushroomers were arguably negligent in leaving the gate open,

Of course they are legally negligent.

> but are not responsible for the loss of valuable animals.

Wrong, as always.

> OTOH, the property owner contributed significantlyto the loss by not
> pad locking the gate

Wrong, as always.

> and allowing folk to collect his mushrooms.

He didnt allow that.

> A court would likely rule there was no case to answer against the
> mushroomers.

Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you have
never ever had a fucking clue about anything at all, ever.

Re: Country gate closure.

<d17ejite8co8k7bqbh7n3seq0j7laocfmv@4ax.com>

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From: pet...@gmail.com (Petzl)
Newsgroups: aus.legal
Subject: Re: Country gate closure.
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2023 12:45:37 +1100
Lines: 56
Message-ID: <d17ejite8co8k7bqbh7n3seq0j7laocfmv@4ax.com>
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 by: Petzl - Tue, 24 Oct 2023 01:45 UTC

On Mon, 23 Oct 2023 09:56:58 +1100, Pete <pjetson@yahoo.com> wrote:

>> Where can I get records of typical and relevant court cases?
>
>Some of these (found with a simple Google search) might be relevant.
>
>https://www.google.com/search?q=court+cases+about+leaving+farm+gates+open
>
>Peter
>
Doubt if they are enforceable
I have keep out - private property on my back fence gate
Still creeps claiming to be cold callers, but looking to break in or
steal.

Front entry on mail box an on door do not knock do not enter
Same still not 100% last one was some Euro trash selling solar panels
Told him to leave again loudly, his response was
"are you threatening me"
Grabbed my baseball bat and told him I'm not threatening I'm promising
I'm allowed to use
"as much force as is necessary to remove you from my property"
I'm a old guy intend to use this bat!
He then left

My problem is he knows where I live, don't know where he lives.
police won't come un till hours later. not interested!
The yanks have it right a home occupier (in some states)
has the right to shoot and kill anyone on their property!

Same goes for arses who stack your mail letter box with junk.
Till it can't be used every day this was happening
My answer was to place expensive bogus orders with said advertisers.
Seemed to mostly work?
NSW opinion?
<https://legalanswers.sl.nsw.gov.au/neighbours-and-law/entry-access-and-privacy>
https://tinyurl.com/2xdgha7r
The law of trespass is available to anyone who is an ‘occupier’ – not
just to the owner of the property. Under the law of trespass, if
someone enters the property without permission you can ask them to
leave. If they refuse to go when asked, they are trespassing and you
can use reasonable force to remove them. If you use more than
reasonable force however, you may be committing an assault and can be
charged, or even sued by the trespasser.
--
Petzl
Good lawyers know the law
Great lawyers know the judge

justice is open to all; like the Ritz hotel
High Court reveals every current judge is a
member of Qantas’ ‘most exclusive club in Australia’
The High Court has exposed secret members of Qantas’
exclusive Chairman’s Lounge amid a landmark case over
the sacking of 1700 workers.

Re: Country gate closure.

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From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: aus.legal
Subject: Re: Country gate closure.
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2023 15:28:30 +1100
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 by: Rod Speed - Tue, 24 Oct 2023 04:28 UTC

On Tue, 24 Oct 2023 12:45:37 +1100, Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 23 Oct 2023 09:56:58 +1100, Pete <pjetson@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>> Where can I get records of typical and relevant court cases?
>>
>> Some of these (found with a simple Google search) might be relevant.
>>
>> https://www.google.com/search?q=court+cases+about+leaving+farm+gates+open

> Doubt if they are enforceable
> I have keep out - private property on my back fence gate
> Still creeps claiming to be cold callers, but looking to break in or
> steal.
>
> Front entry on mail box an on door do not knock do not enter
> Same still not 100% last one was some Euro trash selling solar panels
> Told him to leave again loudly, his response was
> "are you threatening me"
> Grabbed my baseball bat and told him I'm not threatening I'm promising
> I'm allowed to use
> "as much force as is necessary to remove you from my property"
> I'm a old guy intend to use this bat!
> He then left
>
> My problem is he knows where I live, don't know where he lives.
> police won't come un till hours later. not interested!

> The yanks have it right a home occupier (in some states)
> has the right to shoot and kill anyone on their property!

Its not that absolute, you can't shoot and kill
someone who knocks on your front door.

And in some states you are welcome to shoot and kill
someone who has invaded someone else's property
and is in the process of leaving that property as well.

> Same goes for arses who stack your mail letter box with junk.
> Till it can't be used every day this was happening
> My answer was to place expensive bogus orders with said advertisers.
> Seemed to mostly work?
> NSW opinion?
> <https://legalanswers.sl.nsw.gov.au/neighbours-and-law/entry-access-and-privacy>
> https://tinyurl.com/2xdgha7r
> The law of trespass is available to anyone who is an ‘occupier’ – not
> just to the owner of the property. Under the law of trespass, if
> someone enters the property without permission you can ask them to
> leave. If they refuse to go when asked, they are trespassing and you
> can use reasonable force to remove them. If you use more than
> reasonable force however, you may be committing an assault and can be
> charged, or even sued by the trespasser.

Re: Country gate closure.

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From: pet...@gmail.com (Petzl)
Newsgroups: aus.legal
Subject: Re: Country gate closure.
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2023 08:36:52 +1100
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 by: Petzl - Tue, 24 Oct 2023 21:36 UTC

On Tue, 24 Oct 2023 15:28:30 +1100, "Rod Speed"
<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 24 Oct 2023 12:45:37 +1100, Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 23 Oct 2023 09:56:58 +1100, Pete <pjetson@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> Where can I get records of typical and relevant court cases?
>>>
>>> Some of these (found with a simple Google search) might be relevant.
>>>
>>> https://www.google.com/search?q=court+cases+about+leaving+farm+gates+open
>
>> Doubt if they are enforceable
>> I have keep out - private property on my back fence gate
>> Still creeps claiming to be cold callers, but looking to break in or
>> steal.
>>
>> Front entry on mail box an on door do not knock do not enter
>> Same still not 100% last one was some Euro trash selling solar panels
>> Told him to leave again loudly, his response was
>> "are you threatening me"
>> Grabbed my baseball bat and told him I'm not threatening I'm promising
>> I'm allowed to use
>> "as much force as is necessary to remove you from my property"
>> I'm a old guy intend to use this bat!
>> He then left
>>
>> My problem is he knows where I live, don't know where he lives.
>> police won't come un till hours later. not interested!
>
>> The yanks have it right a home occupier (in some states)
>> has the right to shoot and kill anyone on their property!
>
>Its not that absolute, you can't shoot and kill
>someone who knocks on your front door.
>
>And in some states you are welcome to shoot and kill
>someone who has invaded someone else's property
>and is in the process of leaving that property as well.
>
That is my take as well.
>
>> Same goes for arses who stack your mail letter box with junk.
>> Till it can't be used every day this was happening
>> My answer was to place expensive bogus orders with said advertisers.
>> Seemed to mostly work?
>> NSW opinion?
>> <https://legalanswers.sl.nsw.gov.au/neighbours-and-law/entry-access-and-privacy>
>> https://tinyurl.com/2xdgha7r
>> The law of trespass is available to anyone who is an ‘occupier’ – not
>> just to the owner of the property. Under the law of trespass, if
>> someone enters the property without permission you can ask them to
>> leave. If they refuse to go when asked, they are trespassing and you
>> can use reasonable force to remove them. If you use more than
>> reasonable force however, you may be committing an assault and can be
>> charged, or even sued by the trespasser.
--
Petzl
Good lawyers know the law
Great lawyers know the judge

justice is open to all; like the Ritz hotel
High Court reveals every current judge is a
member of Qantas’ ‘most exclusive club in Australia’
The High Court has exposed secret members of Qantas’
exclusive Chairman’s Lounge amid a landmark case over
the sacking of 1700 workers.


aus+uk / aus.legal / Country gate closure.

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