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aus+uk / uk.media.radio.archers / Re: confusing fuel bills from bulb

SubjectAuthor
* confusing fuel bills from bulbVicky
`* confusing fuel bills from bulbBrritSki
 +* confusing fuel bills from bulbkrw
 |+* confusing fuel bills from bulbBrritSki
 ||`* confusing fuel bills from bulbVicky
 || `* confusing fuel bills from bulbBrritSki
 ||  `* confusing fuel bills from bulbVicky
 ||   +* confusing fuel bills from bulbVicky
 ||   |`* confusing fuel bills from bulbBrritSki
 ||   | `* confusing fuel bills from bulbBrritSki
 ||   |  `* confusing fuel bills from bulbVicky
 ||   |   +* confusing fuel bills from bulbBrritSki
 ||   |   |`- confusing fuel bills from bulbVicky
 ||   |   `* confusing fuel bills from bulbBrritSki
 ||   |    `* confusing fuel bills from bulbBrritSki
 ||   |     `* confusing fuel bills from bulbVicky
 ||   |      +* confusing fuel bills from bulbBrritSki
 ||   |      |`- confusing fuel bills from bulbVicky
 ||   |      `* confusing fuel bills from bulbBrritSki
 ||   |       +- confusing fuel bills from bulbBrritSki
 ||   |       `* confusing fuel bills from bulbVicky
 ||   |        `- confusing fuel bills from bulbBrritSki
 ||   +* confusing fuel bills from bulbBrritSki
 ||   |+- confusing fuel bills from bulbVicky
 ||   |`- confusing fuel bills from bulbMike McMillan
 ||   `* confusing fuel bills from bulbPenny
 ||    `- confusing fuel bills from bulbVicky
 |+- confusing fuel bills from bulbJ. P. Gilliver (John)
 |`* confusing fuel bills from bulbMike McMillan
 | `* confusing fuel bills from bulbkrw
 |  `- confusing fuel bills from bulbMike McMillan
 `* confusing fuel bills from bulbJ. P. Gilliver (John)
  +- confusing fuel bills from bulbJenny M Benson
  +- confusing fuel bills from bulbVicky
  +* confusing fuel bills from bulbChris J Dixon
  |+* confusing fuel bills from bulbJohn Ashby
  ||`* confusing fuel bills from bulbJ. P. Gilliver (John)
  || `- confusing fuel bills from bulbMike McMillan
  |`* confusing fuel bills from bulbMike McMillan
  | `- confusing fuel bills from bulbChris J Dixon
  `- confusing fuel bills from bulbJohn Armstrong

Pages:12
confusing fuel bills from bulb

<5lks6htbgikpajer3foougsj8p8l6bq6ji@4ax.com>

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From: vicky.ay...@gmail.com (Vicky)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: confusing fuel bills from bulb
Date: Sun, 01 May 2022 10:32:16 +0100
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 by: Vicky - Sun, 1 May 2022 09:32 UTC

After years of arguing over wrong estimates and getting refunds and
trhen their taking DDs I did not authorse and not paying back, but
then I cut the DD very low till the surplus was used, and then
requests to make £800+ a month DD! I cancelled DD and the last 2
months paid all off by CC but only the last month can I see what
monthly use is. I can't make it go in the columns. Maybe some clever
umrat can.

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£191.94
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Date
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Balance
28 Apr 2022

Payment

via Stripe

+ £191.94
£0.00

28 Apr 2022

Energy used

28 Mar to 27 Apr 2022

Download statement
- £191.94
- £191.94

19 Apr 2022

Payment

via Stripe

+ £117.30
£0.00

29 Mar 2022

Payment

by Direct Debit

+ £50.00
- £117.30

28 Mar 2022

Energy used

28 Feb to 27 Mar 2022

Download statement
- £134.40
- £167.30

1 Mar 2022

Payment

by Direct Debit

+ £50.00
- £32.90

28 Feb 2022

Energy used

28 Jan to 27 Feb 2022

Download statement
- £176.38
- £82.90

31 Jan 2022

Payment

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+ £50.00
£93.48

28 Jan 2022

Energy used

28 Dec 2021 to 27 Jan 2022

Download statement
- £148.80
£43.48

6 Jan 2022

Payment

by Direct Debit

+ £100.00
£192.28

6 Jan 2022

Payment

by Direct Debit

+ £210.77
£92.28

30 Dec 2021

Payment

by Direct Debit

+ £50.00
- £118.49

28 Dec 2021

Energy used

28 Nov to 27 Dec 2021

Download statement
- £158.16
- £168.49

28 Dec 2021

Statement correction

for 28 Dec 2021

+ £200.44
- £10.33

28 Dec 2021

Energy used

28 Nov to 27 Dec 2021

Download statement
- £200.44
- £210.77

30 Nov 2021

Payment

by Direct Debit

+ £50.00
- £10.33

28 Nov 2021

Energy used

28 Oct to 27 Nov 2021

Download statement
- £158.47
- £60.33

29 Oct 2021

Payment

by Direct Debit

+ £50.00
£98.14

28 Oct 2021

Energy used

28 Sep to 27 Oct 2021

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- £105.68
£48.14

29 Sep 2021

Payment

by Direct Debit

+ £50.00
£153.82

28 Sep 2021

Energy used

28 Aug to 27 Sep 2021

Download statement
- £97.42
£103.82

1 Sep 2021

Payment

by Direct Debit

+ £50.00
£201.24

28 Aug 2021

Energy used

28 Jul to 27 Aug 2021

Download statement
- £100.10
£151.24

3 Aug 2021

Energy used

28 Jun to 27 Jul 2021

Download statement
- £39.97
£251.34

3 Aug 2021

Statement correction

for 28 Jul 2021

+ £39.97
£291.31

29 Jul 2021

Payment

by Direct Debit

+ £60.00
£251.34

28 Jul 2021

Energy used

28 Jun to 27 Jul 2021

Download statement
- £39.97
£191.34

29 Jun 2021

Payment

by Direct Debit

+ £60.00
£231.31

28 Jun 2021

Energy used

28 May to 27 Jun 2021

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- £137.74
£171.31

1 Jun 2021

Payment

by Direct Debit

+ £100.00
£309.05

28 May 2021

Energy used

28 Apr to 27 May 2021

Download statement
- £82.46
£209.05

2 May 2021

Energy used

28 Mar to 27 Apr 2021

Download statement
- £119.99
£291.51

2 May 2021

Statement correction

for 02 May 2021

+ £116.82
£411.50

2 May 2021

Energy used

28 Mar to 27 Apr 2021

Download statement
- £116.82
£294.68

2 May 2021

Statement correction

for 28 Apr 2021

+ £178.84
£411.50

29 Apr 2021

Payment

by Direct Debit

+ £100.00
£232.66

28 Apr 2021

Energy used

28 Mar to 27 Apr 2021

Download statement
- £178.84
£132.66

30 Mar 2021

Payment

by Direct Debit

+ £130.00
£311.50

28 Mar 2021

Energy used

28 Feb to 27 Mar 2021

Download statement
- £92.95
£181.50

3 Mar 2021

Payment

by Direct Debit

+ £130.00
£274.45

28 Feb 2021

Energy used

28 Jan to 27 Feb 2021

Download statement
- £34.87
£144.45

14 Feb 2021

Energy used

28 Dec 2020 to 27 Jan 2021

Download statement
+ £98.08
£179.32

14 Feb 2021

Statement correction

for 28 Jan 2021

+ £440.74
£81.24

29 Jan 2021

Payment

by Direct Debit

+ £130.00
- £359.50

28 Jan 2021

Energy used

28 Dec 2020 to 27 Jan 2021

Download statement
- £440.74
- £489.50

30 Dec 2020

Payment

by Direct Debit

+ £130.00
- £48.76

29 Dec 2020

Energy used

28 Nov to 27 Dec 2020

Download statement
- £403.47
- £178.76

29 Dec 2020

Statement correction

for 28 Dec 2020

+ £401.95
£224.71

28 Dec 2020

Energy used

28 Nov to 27 Dec 2020

Download statement
- £401.95
- £177.24

1 Dec 2020

Payment

by Direct Debit

+ £130.00
£224.71

28 Nov 2020

Energy used

28 Oct to 27 Nov 2020

Download statement
- £23.85
£94.71

29 Oct 2020

Payment

by Direct Debit

+ £130.00
£118.56

28 Oct 2020

Energy used

28 Sep to 27 Oct 2020

Download statement
- £129.93
- £11.44

5 Oct 2020

Payment

by Direct Debit

+ £50.00
£118.49

29 Sep 2020

Payment

by Direct Debit

+ £100.00
£68.49

28 Sep 2020

Energy used

28 Aug to 27 Sep 2020

Download statement
- £93.84
- £31.51

1 Sep 2020

Payment

by Direct Debit

+ £100.00
£62.33

28 Aug 2020

Energy used

28 Jul to 27 Aug 2020

Download statement
- £51.58
- £37.67

29 Jul 2020

Payment

by Direct Debit

+ £100.00
£13.91

28 Jul 2020

Energy used

28 Jun to 27 Jul 2020

Download statement
- £85.70
- £86.09

30 Jun 2020

Payment

by Direct Debit

+ £100.00
- £0.39

28 Jun 2020

Energy used

28 May to 27 Jun 2020

Download statement
- £15.18
- £100.39

29 May 2020

Payment

by Direct Debit

+ £100.00
- £85.21

28 May 2020

Energy used

28 Apr to 27 May 2020

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- £100.71
- £185.21

29 Apr 2020

Payment

by Direct Debit

+ £100.00
- £84.50

28 Apr 2020

Energy used

28 Mar to 27 Apr 2020

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- £135.59
- £184.50

31 Mar 2020

Payment

by Direct Debit

+ £100.00
- £48.91

28 Mar 2020

Energy used

28 Feb to 27 Mar 2020

Download statement
+ £168.29
- £148.91

3 Mar 2020

Payment

by Direct Debit

+ £100.00
- £317.20

28 Feb 2020

Energy used

28 Jan to 27 Feb 2020

Download statement
- £192.60
- £417.20

29 Jan 2020

Payment

by Direct Debit

+ £100.00
- £224.60

28 Jan 2020

Energy used

28 Dec 2019 to 27 Jan 2020

Download statement
- £196.82
- £324.60

31 Dec 2019

Payment

by Direct Debit

+ £100.00
- £127.78

28 Dec 2019

Energy used

28 Nov to 27 Dec 2019

Download statement
- £200.50
- £227.78

29 Nov 2019

Payment

by Direct Debit

+ £80.00
- £27.28

28 Nov 2019

Energy used

28 Oct to 27 Nov 2019

Download statement
- £97.06
- £107.28

29 Oct 2019

Payment

by Direct Debit

+ £80.00
- £10.22

28 Oct 2019

Energy used

28 Sep to 27 Oct 2019

Download statement
- £78.20
- £90.22

1 Oct 2019

Payment

by Direct Debit

+ £70.00
- £12.02

28 Sep 2019

Energy used

28 Aug to 27 Sep 2019

Download statement
- £53.99
- £82.02

29 Aug 2019

Payment

by Direct Debit

+ £70.00
- £28.03

28 Aug 2019

Energy used

28 Jul to 27 Aug 2019

Download statement
- £19.66
- £98.03

26 Aug 2019

Energy used

28 May to 27 Jul 2019

Download statement
- £176.09
- £78.37

26 Aug 2019

Statement correction

for 21 Aug 2019

+ £264.79
£97.72

23 Aug 2019

Account credit

+ £10.00
- £167.07

21 Aug 2019

Energy used

28 May to 27 Jul 2019

Download statement
- £264.79
- £177.07

20 Aug 2019

Statement correction

for 19 Aug 2019

+ £264.79
£87.72

19 Aug 2019

Energy used

28 May to 27 Jul 2019

Download statement
- £264.79
- £177.07

16 Aug 2019

Statement correction

for 28 Jul 2019

+ £156.04
£87.72


Click here to read the complete article
Re: confusing fuel bills from bulb

<jd7cvkF9rnkU1@mid.individual.net>

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https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=7953&group=uk.media.radio.archers#7953

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!news.uzoreto.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: rtilbury...@gmail.com (BrritSki)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: confusing fuel bills from bulb
Date: Sun, 1 May 2022 13:32:51 +0100
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <jd7cvkF9rnkU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <5lks6htbgikpajer3foougsj8p8l6bq6ji@4ax.com>
Reply-To: rtilbury@gmail.com
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In-Reply-To: <5lks6htbgikpajer3foougsj8p8l6bq6ji@4ax.com>
 by: BrritSki - Sun, 1 May 2022 12:32 UTC

On 01/05/2022 10:32, Vicky wrote:
> After years of arguing over wrong estimates and getting refunds and
> trhen their taking DDs I did not authorse and not paying back, but
> then I cut the DD very low till the surplus was used, and then
> requests to make £800+ a month DD! I cancelled DD and the last 2
> months paid all off by CC but only the last month can I see what
> monthly use is. I can't make it go in the columns. Maybe some clever
> umrat can.

Not without the source data we can;t.

What is missing from your post is this:

Meter readings (Day)
27 February 2022 11523.0 Customer Read
25 March 2022 11622.0 Customer Read
Meter readings (Night)
27 February 2022 2833.0 Customer Read
25 March 2022 2854.0 Customer Read

Download each monthly statement and you'll find this on Page 3 of the
PDF for electricity as shown above and page 3 for gas e.g.

Meter readings
27 February 2022 5555 Customer Read
25 March 2022 5660 Customer Read
Meter units used: 105

Re: confusing fuel bills from bulb

<t4lv43$1sdv$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: krw...@whitnet.uk (krw)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: confusing fuel bills from bulb
Date: Sun, 1 May 2022 13:40:42 +0100
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID: <t4lv43$1sdv$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <5lks6htbgikpajer3foougsj8p8l6bq6ji@4ax.com>
<jd7cvkF9rnkU1@mid.individual.net>
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Content-Language: en-GB
 by: krw - Sun, 1 May 2022 12:40 UTC

On 1.5.22 13:32, BrritSki wrote:
> On 01/05/2022 10:32, Vicky wrote:
>> After years of arguing over wrong estimates and getting refunds and
>> trhen their taking DDs I did not authorse and not paying back, but
>> then I cut the DD very low till the surplus was used, and then
>> requests to make £800+ a month DD! I cancelled DD and the last 2
>> months paid all off by CC but only the last month can I see what
>> monthly use is.  I can't make it go in the columns. Maybe some clever
>> umrat can.
>
> Not without the source data we can;t.
>
> What is missing from your post is this:
>
> Meter readings (Day)
> 27 February 2022 11523.0 Customer Read
> 25 March 2022 11622.0 Customer Read
> Meter readings (Night)
> 27 February 2022 2833.0 Customer Read
> 25 March 2022 2854.0 Customer Read
>
> Download each monthly statement and you'll find this on Page 3 of the
> PDF for electricity as shown above and page 3 for gas e.g.
>
> Meter readings
> 27 February 2022 5555 Customer Read
> 25 March 2022 5660 Customer Read
> Meter units used: 105
>

I might have a degree in physics but our physics teacher's most useful
lesson was teaching us how to understand fuel bills and the computations
needed to convert meter readings into bills, particularly in the days of
town gas (the North Sea had not been invented) and therefore the
calorific value had to be provided to enable the computation to work.
North Sea Gas simplified the calculation.

--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics

Re: confusing fuel bills from bulb

<jd7eg8Fa4gjU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: rtilbury...@gmail.com (BrritSki)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: confusing fuel bills from bulb
Date: Sun, 1 May 2022 13:58:47 +0100
Lines: 57
Message-ID: <jd7eg8Fa4gjU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <5lks6htbgikpajer3foougsj8p8l6bq6ji@4ax.com>
<jd7cvkF9rnkU1@mid.individual.net> <t4lv43$1sdv$1@gioia.aioe.org>
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In-Reply-To: <t4lv43$1sdv$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 by: BrritSki - Sun, 1 May 2022 12:58 UTC

On 01/05/2022 13:40, krw wrote:
> On 1.5.22 13:32, BrritSki wrote:
>> On 01/05/2022 10:32, Vicky wrote:
>>> After years of arguing over wrong estimates and getting refunds and
>>> trhen their taking DDs I did not authorse and not paying back, but
>>> then I cut the DD very low till the surplus was used, and then
>>> requests to make £800+ a month DD! I cancelled DD and the last 2
>>> months paid all off by CC but only the last month can I see what
>>> monthly use is.  I can't make it go in the columns. Maybe some clever
>>> umrat can.
>>
>> Not without the source data we can;t.
>>
>> What is missing from your post is this:
>>
>> Meter readings (Day)
>> 27 February 2022 11523.0 Customer Read
>> 25 March 2022 11622.0 Customer Read
>> Meter readings (Night)
>> 27 February 2022 2833.0 Customer Read
>> 25 March 2022 2854.0 Customer Read
>>
>> Download each monthly statement and you'll find this on Page 3 of the
>> PDF for electricity as shown above and page 3 for gas e.g.
>>
>> Meter readings
>> 27 February 2022 5555 Customer Read
>> 25 March 2022 5660 Customer Read
>> Meter units used: 105
>>
>
> I might have a degree in physics but our physics teacher's most useful
> lesson was teaching us how to understand fuel bills and the computations
> needed to convert meter readings into bills, particularly in the days of
> town gas (the North Sea had not been invented) and therefore the
> calorific value had to be provided to enable the computation to work.
> North Sea Gas simplified the calculation.
>
For clarity I snipped the bit that shows that calculation:
Meter readings
27 February 2022 5555 Customer Read
25 March 2022 5660 Customer Read
Meter units used: 105
Energy* 1169.2 kWh @ 3.8620 p/kWh £ 45.15
Standing charge 26 days @ 24.8690 p/day £ 6.47
Cost of gas used £ 51.62
VAT @ 5% £ 2.58
Total gas costs for this bill £ 54.20

I just noticed that on the right hand side of that PDF page there are
details of tariff plus this:
Estimated annual usage: 11043 kWh

This is in line with my spreadsheet calculation of the last 12 months of
gas usage being 11012.

Re: confusing fuel bills from bulb

<Tv8U8pDxYobiFwr0@a.a>

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From: G6J...@255soft.uk (J. P. Gilliver (John))
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: confusing fuel bills from bulb
Date: Sun, 1 May 2022 14:08:01 +0100
Organization: 255 software
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 by: J. P. Gilliver (John - Sun, 1 May 2022 13:08 UTC

On Sun, 1 May 2022 at 13:32:51, BrritSki <rtilburyTAKEAWAY@gmail.com>
wrote (my responses usually FOLLOW):
>On 01/05/2022 10:32, Vicky wrote:
>> After years of arguing over wrong estimates and getting refunds and
>> trhen their taking DDs I did not authorse and not paying back, but
>> then I cut the DD very low till the surplus was used, and then

I'm puzzled by "cut the DD very low"; I thought the whole point of DD
(and why I avoid it wherever I can) was that the company can take
whatever amount they want. (Basically, you hold out your wallet to them
and say "help yourself - oh, you will tell me hoe much you're going to
take, won't you?".) If _you_ can set the amount, then surely it could be
done by standing order.

But if you _can_ set it in some way, why did you set it "very low"
rather than 0, if you have a big surplus that needs using up - or, won't
their mechanism let you set 0?

>> requests to make £800+ a month DD! I cancelled DD and the last 2
>> months paid all off by CC but only the last month can I see what
>> monthly use is. I can't make it go in the columns. Maybe some clever
>> umrat can.

I think there needs to be some ombudsman/Ofxxx action on the matter of
such bills (my PlusNet one is horrendous). It ought to be possible to
show - easily on one page, and for both electricity and gas:

What you used last month, and what that cost
standing charge cost

(maybe twice, for electricity and gas)

(with both of those being _allowed_ to go to two lines if there was a
price change during the month - so maximum of four lines)

your balance a month ago
what you've paid (or, what we've taken) during the last month
your new balance (what you owe us or we owe you)

I really can't see why any regular bill needs to show _any_ more than
that. (In the case of something like a 'phone - including mobile - bill,
there might need to be an itemised list of calls, but that should be on
a different page.)
[]
OK, the "what you've used" can be supported by meter readings, adding a
few lines.

Gawdelpus if time-of-day charging ever gets allowed. (OK, for those
already on "Economy 7" or similar, double the above. But, the current
extremely complex bills are unforgivable.)

FWIW: I recently had a "conversation" with Octopus-pretending-to-be-M&S
(by email); I initially just asked about a puzzling bill or two, but got
replies saying something like "the email you just sent us seems to have
nothing in it - can I help you?"; the email _actually saying that_
contained, quoted back to me, the entire text of the "what's going on"
email I had sent them. After some escalation, I have obtained a pretty
large compensation payout - at least, credit. I had hoped that was the
last of it, but I then received another puzzling communication, and sent
them another "what's going on" email - and have had _another_ "your
email appears to be empty" one, from the same bimbo (sorry for use of
that word, but in this case it seems valid). I've replied saying "please
call in xxx" (the person who had apologised and authorised the
compensation before). We'll see ...
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Never make the same mistake twice...there are so many new ones to make!

Re: confusing fuel bills from bulb

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From: G6J...@255soft.uk (J. P. Gilliver (John))
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: confusing fuel bills from bulb
Date: Sun, 1 May 2022 14:30:05 +0100
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 by: J. P. Gilliver (John - Sun, 1 May 2022 13:30 UTC

On Sun, 1 May 2022 at 13:40:42, krw <krw@whitnet.uk> wrote (my responses
usually FOLLOW):
[]
>I might have a degree in physics but our physics teacher's most useful
>lesson was teaching us how to understand fuel bills and the
>computations needed to convert meter readings into bills, particularly
>in the days of town gas (the North Sea had not been invented) and
>therefore the calorific value had to be provided to enable the
>computation to work. North Sea Gas simplified the calculation.
>
I think there was some legislation a few years (decades?) ago, that
forced the supply companies to convert things into easily-comparable
units. It seems to me that the companies then _deliberately_ - and I'm
sure, if challenged, would say they are telling us everything so they
can't be accused of hiding anything - made up a very complicated
paragraph, involving (probably cubic feet to metres for older meters,)
calorific value, and a few other things, just to generate the
multiplication factor.

All that is needed is the single factor which you multiply the
difference in meter readings (i. e. what you've used), to get something
sensible - which these days should probably be kWh, since that's what
your electricity usage is in.

So the bill should look like:

new meter reading 1234500 splodges
old meter reading 1233000 splodges
-------
so you've used 0001500 splodges.

1500 splodges × conversion factor = xyz kWh, at nn pence each, for which
you owe us £abc.

(Where "splodge" is the unit the meter happens to read in - with modern
ones, I'd expect it to be m³, but it doesn't really matter.)

They could also show the readings as above, like a sum, rather than in a
horizontal line (as many - water companies too - do).

Sure, they can (probably _should_) show how the conversion factor is
generated, somewhere on the bill. But its only a set of fixed numbers
multiplied together - and I really can't see why it shouldn't be at most
two such constants - (cubic) feet to metres if an old meter, and m³ to
kWh. Any more is excessive.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Never make the same mistake twice...there are so many new ones to make!

Re: confusing fuel bills from bulb

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From: NemoN...@hotmail.co.uk (Jenny M Benson)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: confusing fuel bills from bulb
Date: Sun, 1 May 2022 15:35:10 +0100
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 by: Jenny M Benson - Sun, 1 May 2022 14:35 UTC

On 01/05/2022 14:08, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
> I think there needs to be some ombudsman/Ofxxx action on the matter of
> such bills (my PlusNet one is horrendous). It ought to be possible to
> show - easily on one page, and for both electricity and gas:
>
> What you used last month, and what that cost
> standing charge cost
>
> (maybe twice, for electricity and gas)
>
> (with both of those being _allowed_ to go to two lines if there was a
> price change during the month - so maximum of four lines)
>
> your balance a month ago
> what you've paid (or, what we've taken) during the last month
> your new balance (what you owe us or we owe you)
>
> I really can't see why any regular bill needs to show _any_ more than
> that. (In the case of something like a 'phone - including mobile - bill,
> there might need to be an itemised list of calls, but that should be on
> a different page.)
> []
> OK, the "what you've used" can be supported by meter readings, adding a
> few lines.

I just tried to check up exactly what E-on Next show now, as I only
remembered that since Next came into being I have just had e-mails
saying "You owe us £n this month and we'll take it on <date>."

I couldn't seem to find anything that resembled "Used x units,
multiplied by cost per unit = y."

I could find a list of amounts deducted from my Bank account, with
dates, a list of when gas readings were taken or estimated, a list of
when electricity readings were taken or estimated and items showing what
tariffs I'm on.

Each section is uncluttered and simple but it would be incredibly
complicated and time-consuming to put the whole lot together.

--
Jenny M Benson
Wrexham, UK

Re: confusing fuel bills from bulb

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From: toodle.p...@virginmedia.com (Mike McMillan)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: confusing fuel bills from bulb
Date: Sun, 1 May 2022 15:50:45 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Mike McMillan - Sun, 1 May 2022 15:50 UTC

krw <krw@whitnet.uk> wrote:
> On 1.5.22 13:32, BrritSki wrote:
>> On 01/05/2022 10:32, Vicky wrote:
>>> After years of arguing over wrong estimates and getting refunds and
>>> trhen their taking DDs I did not authorse and not paying back, but
>>> then I cut the DD very low till the surplus was used, and then
>>> requests to make £800+ a month DD! I cancelled DD and the last 2
>>> months paid all off by CC but only the last month can I see what
>>> monthly use is.  I can't make it go in the columns. Maybe some clever
>>> umrat can.
>>
>> Not without the source data we can;t.
>>
>> What is missing from your post is this:
>>
>> Meter readings (Day)
>> 27 February 2022 11523.0 Customer Read
>> 25 March 2022 11622.0 Customer Read
>> Meter readings (Night)
>> 27 February 2022 2833.0 Customer Read
>> 25 March 2022 2854.0 Customer Read
>>
>> Download each monthly statement and you'll find this on Page 3 of the
>> PDF for electricity as shown above and page 3 for gas e.g.
>>
>> Meter readings
>> 27 February 2022 5555 Customer Read
>> 25 March 2022 5660 Customer Read
>> Meter units used: 105
>>
>
> I might have a degree in physics but our physics teacher's most useful
> lesson was teaching us how to understand fuel bills and the computations
> needed to convert meter readings into bills, particularly in the days of
> town gas (the North Sea had not been invented) and therefore the
> calorific value had to be provided to enable the computation to work.
> North Sea Gas simplified the calculation.
>

The calorific value is still part of the computation with natural gas (at
least it is part of the calculation used to determine kW/h by EonNext on my
bills).

--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan

Re: confusing fuel bills from bulb

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From: vicky.ay...@gmail.com (Vicky)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: confusing fuel bills from bulb
Date: Sun, 01 May 2022 17:56:46 +0100
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 by: Vicky - Sun, 1 May 2022 16:56 UTC

On Sun, 1 May 2022 14:08:01 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
<G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:

>On Sun, 1 May 2022 at 13:32:51, BrritSki <rtilburyTAKEAWAY@gmail.com>
>wrote (my responses usually FOLLOW):
>>On 01/05/2022 10:32, Vicky wrote:
>>> After years of arguing over wrong estimates and getting refunds and
>>> trhen their taking DDs I did not authorse and not paying back, but
>>> then I cut the DD very low till the surplus was used, and then
>
>I'm puzzled by "cut the DD very low"; I thought the whole point of DD
>(and why I avoid it wherever I can) was that the company can take
>whatever amount they want. (Basically, you hold out your wallet to them
>and say "help yourself - oh, you will tell me hoe much you're going to
>take, won't you?".) If _you_ can set the amount, then surely it could be
>done by standing order.

I complained about algorythmns and estimates and being in credit for a
few years, massively, but bulb didn't allow me to reduce DD until I
complained and then did, and then later again after helping themselves
to the 3 payments in a month unallowed they set the monthly DD at £50
for at least 3 mths
>
>But if you _can_ set it in some way, why did you set it "very low"
>rather than 0, if you have a big surplus that needs using up - or, won't
>their mechanism let you set 0?
>
>>> requests to make £800+ a month DD! I cancelled DD and the last 2
>>> months paid all off by CC but only the last month can I see what
>>> monthly use is. I can't make it go in the columns. Maybe some clever
>>> umrat can.
>
>I think there needs to be some ombudsman/Ofxxx action on the matter of
>such bills (my PlusNet one is horrendous). It ought to be possible to
>show - easily on one page, and for both electricity and gas:
>
>What you used last month, and what that cost
>standing charge cost
>
>(maybe twice, for electricity and gas)
>
>(with both of those being _allowed_ to go to two lines if there was a
>price change during the month - so maximum of four lines)
>
>your balance a month ago
>what you've paid (or, what we've taken) during the last month
>your new balance (what you owe us or we owe you)
>
>I really can't see why any regular bill needs to show _any_ more than
>that. (In the case of something like a 'phone - including mobile - bill,
>there might need to be an itemised list of calls, but that should be on
>a different page.)
>[]
>OK, the "what you've used" can be supported by meter readings, adding a
>few lines.
>
>Gawdelpus if time-of-day charging ever gets allowed. (OK, for those
>already on "Economy 7" or similar, double the above. But, the current
>extremely complex bills are unforgivable.)
>
>FWIW: I recently had a "conversation" with Octopus-pretending-to-be-M&S
>(by email); I initially just asked about a puzzling bill or two, but got
>replies saying something like "the email you just sent us seems to have
>nothing in it - can I help you?"; the email _actually saying that_
>contained, quoted back to me, the entire text of the "what's going on"
>email I had sent them. After some escalation, I have obtained a pretty
>large compensation payout - at least, credit. I had hoped that was the
>last of it, but I then received another puzzling communication, and sent
>them another "what's going on" email - and have had _another_ "your
>email appears to be empty" one, from the same bimbo (sorry for use of
>that word, but in this case it seems valid). I've replied saying "please
>call in xxx" (the person who had apologised and authorised the
>compensation before). We'll see ...
Yes emails were often not replied to or standard response.

Re: confusing fuel bills from bulb

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From: vicky.ay...@gmail.com (Vicky)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: confusing fuel bills from bulb
Date: Sun, 01 May 2022 18:11:43 +0100
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 by: Vicky - Sun, 1 May 2022 17:11 UTC

On Sun, 1 May 2022 13:58:47 +0100, BrritSki
<rtilburyTAKEAWAY@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 01/05/2022 13:40, krw wrote:
>> On 1.5.22 13:32, BrritSki wrote:
>>> On 01/05/2022 10:32, Vicky wrote:
>>>> After years of arguing over wrong estimates and getting refunds and
>>>> trhen their taking DDs I did not authorse and not paying back, but
>>>> then I cut the DD very low till the surplus was used, and then
>>>> requests to make £800+ a month DD! I cancelled DD and the last 2
>>>> months paid all off by CC but only the last month can I see what
>>>> monthly use is.  I can't make it go in the columns. Maybe some clever
>>>> umrat can.
>>>
>>> Not without the source data we can;t.
>>>
>>> What is missing from your post is this:
>>>
>>> Meter readings (Day)
>>> 27 February 2022 11523.0 Customer Read
>>> 25 March 2022 11622.0 Customer Read
>>> Meter readings (Night)
>>> 27 February 2022 2833.0 Customer Read
>>> 25 March 2022 2854.0 Customer Read
>>>
>>> Download each monthly statement and you'll find this on Page 3 of the
>>> PDF for electricity as shown above and page 3 for gas e.g.
>>>
>>> Meter readings
>>> 27 February 2022 5555 Customer Read
>>> 25 March 2022 5660 Customer Read
>>> Meter units used: 105
>>>
>>
>> I might have a degree in physics but our physics teacher's most useful
>> lesson was teaching us how to understand fuel bills and the computations
>> needed to convert meter readings into bills, particularly in the days of
>> town gas (the North Sea had not been invented) and therefore the
>> calorific value had to be provided to enable the computation to work.
>> North Sea Gas simplified the calculation.
>>
>For clarity I snipped the bit that shows that calculation:
>Meter readings
>27 February 2022 5555 Customer Read
>25 March 2022 5660 Customer Read
>Meter units used: 105
>Energy* 1169.2 kWh @ 3.8620 p/kWh £ 45.15
>Standing charge 26 days @ 24.8690 p/day £ 6.47
>Cost of gas used £ 51.62
>VAT @ 5% £ 2.58
>Total gas costs for this bill £ 54.20
>
>I just noticed that on the right hand side of that PDF page there are
>details of tariff plus this:
>Estimated annual usage: 11043 kWh
>
>This is in line with my spreadsheet calculation of the last 12 months of
>gas usage being 11012.
>
Last account balance £ 48.14 in credit
You paid us on 29/10/21 - thank you £ 50.00
Opening balance £ 98.14 in credit
Cost of your energy this month
Electricity - £ 105.22
Gas - £ 53.25
Subtotal - £ 158.47
Your new account balance £ 60.33 in debit
----------------
25 October 2021 50814.0 Customer Read
23 November 2021 51208.0 Customer Read
28 November 2021 51279.3 Estimate
Energy 465.3 kWh @ 19.8670
p/kWh
£ 92.44
Standing charge 34 days @ 22.8640 p/day £ 7.77
Cost of electricity used £ 100.21
VAT @ 5% £ 5.01
Total electricity costs for this bill £ 105.22

-----------------------

Meter readings
25 October 2021 7897 Customer Read
23 November 2021 7977 Customer Read
28 November 2021 7995 Estimate
Meter units used: 98
Energy* 1094.0 kWh @ 3.8620
p/kWh
£ 42.25
Standing charge 34 days @ 24.8690 p/day £ 8.46
Cost of gas used £ 50.71
VAT @ 5% £ 2.54
Total gas costs for this bill £ 53.25
-------------------------

28 February 2022 52549.8 Estimate
14 March 2022 52730.0 Customer Read
24 March 2022 52858.0 Customer Read
28 March 2022 52907.7 Estimate
Energy 357.9 kWh @ 19.8670
p/kWh
£ 71.10
Standing charge 28 days @ 22.8640 p/day £ 6.40
Cost of electricity used £ 77.50
VAT @ 5% £ 3.88
Total electricity costs for this bill £ 81.38
----------------

28 February 2022 8377 Estimate
14 March 2022 8434 Customer Read
24 March 2022 8469 Customer Read
28 March 2022 8478 Estimate
Meter units used: 101
Energy* 1127.5 kWh @ 3.8620
p/kWh
£ 43.54
Standing charge 28 days @ 24.8690 p/day £ 6.96
Cost of gas used £ 50.50
VAT @ 5% £ 2.52
Total gas costs for this bill £ 53.02
--------------

For the period 28 February 2022 to 27 March 2022
Last account balance £ 82.90 in debit
You paid us on 01/03/22 - thank you £ 50.00
Opening balance £ 32.90 in debit
Cost of your energy this month
Electricity - £ 81.38
Gas - £ 53.02
Subtotal - £ 134.40
Your new account balance £ 167.30 in debit

-----------------

For the period 28 March 2022 to 27 April 2022
Last account balance £ 167.30 in debit
You paid us on 29/03/22 - thank you £ 50.00
You paid us on 19/04/22 - thank you £ 117.30
Opening balance £ 0.00 in credit
Cost of your energy this month
Electricity - £ 114.61
Gas - £ 77.33
Subtotal - £ 191.94
Your new account balance £ 191.94 in debit

I paid in full, not DD

________________________________________

Re: confusing fuel bills from bulb

<jd82ruFdvhqU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: rtilbury...@gmail.com (BrritSki)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: confusing fuel bills from bulb
Date: Sun, 1 May 2022 19:46:21 +0100
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 by: BrritSki - Sun, 1 May 2022 18:46 UTC

On 01/05/2022 18:11, Vicky wrote:
> On Sun, 1 May 2022 13:58:47 +0100, BrritSki
> <rtilburyTAKEAWAY@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> For clarity I snipped the bit that shows that calculation:
>> Meter readings
>> 27 February 2022 5555 Customer Read
>> 25 March 2022 5660 Customer Read
>> Meter units used: 105
>> Energy* 1169.2 kWh @ 3.8620 p/kWh £ 45.15
>> Standing charge 26 days @ 24.8690 p/day £ 6.47
>> Cost of gas used £ 51.62
>> VAT @ 5% £ 2.58
>> Total gas costs for this bill £ 54.20
>>
>> I just noticed that on the right hand side of that PDF page there are
>> details of tariff plus this:
>> Estimated annual usage: 11043 kWh
>>
>> This is in line with my spreadsheet calculation of the last 12 months of
>> gas usage being 11012.
>>
> Last account balance £ 48.14 in credit
> You paid us on 29/10/21 - thank you £ 50.00
> Opening balance £ 98.14 in credit
> Cost of your energy this month
> Electricity - £ 105.22
> Gas - £ 53.25
> Subtotal - £ 158.47
> Your new account balance £ 60.33 in debit
> ----------------
> 25 October 2021 50814.0 Customer Read
> 23 November 2021 51208.0 Customer Read
> 28 November 2021 51279.3 Estimate
> Energy 465.3 kWh @ 19.8670
> p/kWh
> £ 92.44
> Standing charge 34 days @ 22.8640 p/day £ 7.77
> Cost of electricity used £ 100.21
> VAT @ 5% £ 5.01
> Total electricity costs for this bill £ 105.22
>
<snip>

Do you have the numbers for the other months, even if they were
estimates rather than your readings, ideally going back 2 years....

Re: confusing fuel bills from bulb

<nnqt6h1eruhcp6jgr1p2u7m8b6u9ksvc15@4ax.com>

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From: chr...@cdixon.me.uk (Chris J Dixon)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: confusing fuel bills from bulb
Date: Sun, 01 May 2022 21:27:07 +0100
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <nnqt6h1eruhcp6jgr1p2u7m8b6u9ksvc15@4ax.com>
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 by: Chris J Dixon - Sun, 1 May 2022 20:27 UTC

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

>FWIW: I recently had a "conversation" with Octopus-pretending-to-be-M&S
>(by email); I initially just asked about a puzzling bill or two, but got
>replies saying something like "the email you just sent us seems to have
>nothing in it - can I help you?"; the email _actually saying that_
>contained, quoted back to me, the entire text of the "what's going on"
>email I had sent them.

I recently had a similar email in a different context asking me
for a detail which was plain to see quoted in the history.

I wonder if it is that those using more flashy email
presentations can't see everything that a plain text reader will
show?

I was also bemused by a note in every response "Please do not
alter this email Subject as we will be unable to trace the
history of your enquiry"

The subject was "Re: Your message to Epson"

I wondered if perhaps there should have been some reference
appended, there was one shown elsewhere in the header.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham
'48/33 M B+ G++ A L(-) I S-- CH0(--)(p) Ar- T+ H0 ?Q
chris@cdixon.me.uk @ChrisJDixon1
Plant amazing Acers.

Re: confusing fuel bills from bulb

<k4st6hplgp26nfgd9v4glj0mse57uanejg@4ax.com>

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From: vicky.ay...@gmail.com (Vicky)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: confusing fuel bills from bulb
Date: Sun, 01 May 2022 22:07:04 +0100
Lines: 265
Message-ID: <k4st6hplgp26nfgd9v4glj0mse57uanejg@4ax.com>
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 by: Vicky - Sun, 1 May 2022 21:07 UTC

On Sun, 1 May 2022 19:46:21 +0100, BrritSki
<rtilburyTAKEAWAY@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 01/05/2022 18:11, Vicky wrote:
>> On Sun, 1 May 2022 13:58:47 +0100, BrritSki
>> <rtilburyTAKEAWAY@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> For clarity I snipped the bit that shows that calculation:
>>> Meter readings
>>> 27 February 2022 5555 Customer Read
>>> 25 March 2022 5660 Customer Read
>>> Meter units used: 105
>>> Energy* 1169.2 kWh @ 3.8620 p/kWh £ 45.15
>>> Standing charge 26 days @ 24.8690 p/day £ 6.47
>>> Cost of gas used £ 51.62
>>> VAT @ 5% £ 2.58
>>> Total gas costs for this bill £ 54.20
>>>
>>> I just noticed that on the right hand side of that PDF page there are
>>> details of tariff plus this:
>>> Estimated annual usage: 11043 kWh
>>>
>>> This is in line with my spreadsheet calculation of the last 12 months of
>>> gas usage being 11012.
>>>
>> Last account balance £ 48.14 in credit
>> You paid us on 29/10/21 - thank you £ 50.00
>> Opening balance £ 98.14 in credit
>> Cost of your energy this month
>> Electricity - £ 105.22
>> Gas - £ 53.25
>> Subtotal - £ 158.47
>> Your new account balance £ 60.33 in debit
>> ----------------
>> 25 October 2021 50814.0 Customer Read
>> 23 November 2021 51208.0 Customer Read
>> 28 November 2021 51279.3 Estimate
>> Energy 465.3 kWh @ 19.8670
>> p/kWh
>> £ 92.44
>> Standing charge 34 days @ 22.8640 p/day £ 7.77
>> Cost of electricity used £ 100.21
>> VAT @ 5% £ 5.01
>> Total electricity costs for this bill £ 105.22
>>
><snip>
>
>Do you have the numbers for the other months, even if they were
>estimates rather than your readings, ideally going back 2 years....
28 March 2022 52907.7 Estimate
31 March 2022 52941.0 Customer Read
23 April 2022 53220.0 Customer Read
28 April 2022 53274.4 Estimate
Energy 45.4 kWh @ 19.8670 p/kWh £ 9.02
Energy(1) 321.3 kWh @ 27.8470
p/kWh
£ 89.47
Standing charge 4 days @ 22.8640 p/day £ 0.91
Standing charge(1) 27 days @ 36.1120 p/day £ 9.75
Cost of electricity used £ 109.15
VAT @ 5% £ 5.46
Total electricity costs for this bill £ 114.61

-------------
28 March 2022 8478 Estimate
31 March 2022 8493 Customer Read
23 April 2022 8561 Customer Read
28 April 2022 8571 Estimate
Meter units used: 93
Energy* 198.5 kWh @ 3.8620 p/kWh £ 7.67
Energy*(1) 829.2 kWh @ 6.9940
p/kWh
£ 57.99
Standing charge 4 days @ 24.8690 p/day £ 0.99
Standing charge(1) 27 days @ 25.9230 p/day £ 7.00
Cost of gas used £ 73.65
VAT @ 5% £ 3.68
Total gas costs for this bill £ 77.33
---------------

Meter readings
25 January 2022 52076.0 Customer Read
23 February 2022 52481.0 Customer Read
24 February 2022 52494.0 Read
28 February 2022 52549.8 Estimate
Energy 473.8 kWh @ 19.8670
p/kWh
£ 94.13
Standing charge 34 days @ 22.8640 p/day £ 7.77
Cost of electricity used £ 101.90
VAT @ 5% £ 5.10
Total electricity costs for this bill £ 107.00
--------------------

25 January 2022 8243 Customer Read
23 February 2022 8360 Customer Read
28 February 2022 8377 Estimate
Meter units used: 134
Energy* 1492.1 kWh @ 3.8620
p/kWh
£ 57.62
Standing charge 34 days @ 24.8690 p/day £ 8.46
Cost of gas used £ 66.08
VAT @ 5% £ 3.30
Total gas costs for this bill £ 69.38
----------------

For the period 28 December 2021 to 27 January 2022
Last account balance £ 168.49 in debit
You paid us on 30/12/21 - thank you £ 50.00
You paid us on 06/01/22 - thank you £ 210.77
You paid us on 06/01/22 - thank you £ 100.00
Opening balance £ 192.28 in credit
Cost of your energy this month
Electricity - £ 87.45
Gas - £ 61.35
Subtotal - £ 148.80
Your new account balance £ 43.48 in credit

---------------

28 December 2021 51689.0 Customer Read
5 January 2022 51790.0 Customer Read
25 January 2022 52076.0 Customer Read
Energy 387.0 kWh @ 19.8670
p/kWh
£ 76.89
Standing charge 28 days @ 22.8640 p/day £ 6.40
Cost of electricity used £ 83.29
VAT @ 5% £ 4.16
Total electricity costs for this bill £ 87.45
-----------------

28 December 2021 8123 Customer Read
5 January 2022 8151 Customer Read
25 January 2022 8243 Customer Read
Meter units used: 120
Energy* 1332.8 kWh @ 3.8620
p/kWh
£ 51.47
Standing charge 28 days @ 24.8690 p/day £ 6.96
Cost of gas used £ 58.43
VAT @ 5% £ 2.92
Total gas costs for this bill £ 61.35
----------------------

For the period 28 November 2021 to 27 December
2021
Last account balance £ 60.33 in debit
You paid us on 30/11/21 - thank you £ 50.00
Opening balance £ 10.33 in debit
Cost of your energy this month
Electricity - £ 136.76
Gas - £ 63.68
Subtotal - £ 200.44
Your new account balance £ 210.77 in debit
----------------------

For the period 28 November 2021 to 27 December
2021
Last account balance £ 60.33 in debit
You paid us on 30/11/21 - thank you £ 50.00
Opening balance £ 10.33 in debit
Cost of your energy this month
Electricity - £ 136.76
Gas - £ 63.68
Subtotal - £ 200.44
Your new account balance £ 210.77 in debit

---------------------------
For the period 28 August 2021 to 27 September 2021
Last account balance £ 151.24 in credit
You paid us on 01/09/21 - thank you £ 50.00
Opening balance £ 201.24 in credit
Cost of your energy this month
Electricity - £ 75.77
Gas - £ 21.65
Subtotal - £ 97.42
Your new account balance £ 103.82 in credit
--------------
28 August 2021 50107.9 Estimate
22 September
2021
50408.0 Customer Read
28 September
2021
50470.3 Estimate
Energy 362.4 kWh @ 17.9970
p/kWh
£ 65.22
Standing charge 31 days @ 22.3820 p/day £ 6.94
Cost of electricity used £ 72.16
VAT @ 5% £ 3.61
Total electricity costs for this bill £ 75.77
----------------------------

28 August 2021 7812 Estimate
3 September 2021 7820 Read
22 September
2021
7840 Customer Read
28 September
2021
7849 Estimate
Meter units used: 37
Energy* 414.0 kWh @ 3.1490 p/kWh £ 13.04
Standing charge 31 days @ 24.4600 p/day £ 7.58
Cost of gas used £ 20.62
VAT @ 5% £ 1.03
Total gas costs for this bill £ 21.65
----------------------------

For the period 28 June 2021 to 27 July 2021
Last account balance £ 191.34 in credit
You paid us on 29/07/21 - thank you £ 60.00
Credit Note on 03/08/21 £ 39.97
Opening balance £ 291.31 in credit
Cost of your energy this month
Electricity - £ 67.76
Gas £ 27.79
Subtotal - £ 39.97
Your new account balance £ 251.34 in credit
-----------------------------

28 June 2021 49412.3 Estimate
26 July 2021 49736.0 Customer Read
Energy 323.7 kWh @ 17.9970
p/kWh
£ 58.26
Standing charge 28 days @ 22.3820 p/day £ 6.27
Cost of electricity used £ 64.53
VAT @ 5% £ 3.23
Total electricity costs for this bill £ 67.76
-----------------------

28 June 2021 7871 Estimate
26 July 2021 7775 Customer Read
Meter units used: -96
Energy* -1058.1 kWh @ 3.1490
p/kWh
- £ 33.32
Standing charge 28 days @ 24.4600 p/day £ 6.85
Cost of gas used - £ 26.47
VAT @ 5% - £ 1.32
Total gas costs for this bill - £ 27.79
------------------------------

For the period 28 April 2021 to 27 May 2021
Last account balance £ 291.51 in credit
Opening balance £ 291.51 in credit
Cost of your energy this month
Electricity - £ 56.84
Gas - £ 25.62
Subtotal - £ 82.46
Your new account balance £ 209.05 in credit
---------------

Over the next 12 months, we have estimated your
personal projection:
Electricity personal projection: £ 854
Gas personal projection: £ 3980
This projection includes your energy usage, standing
charges and VAT.

Re: confusing fuel bills from bulb

<t4mtu5$mv3$1@dont-email.me>

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: johnashb...@yahoo.com (John Ashby)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: confusing fuel bills from bulb
Date: Sun, 1 May 2022 22:26:29 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: John Ashby - Sun, 1 May 2022 21:26 UTC

On 01/05/2022 21:27, Chris J Dixon wrote:
> J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
>
>> FWIW: I recently had a "conversation" with Octopus-pretending-to-be-M&S
>> (by email); I initially just asked about a puzzling bill or two, but got
>> replies saying something like "the email you just sent us seems to have
>> nothing in it - can I help you?"; the email _actually saying that_
>> contained, quoted back to me, the entire text of the "what's going on"
>> email I had sent them.
>
> I recently had a similar email in a different context asking me
> for a detail which was plain to see quoted in the history.
>
> I wonder if it is that those using more flashy email
> presentations can't see everything that a plain text reader will
> show?
>

I have been stung by receiving emails sent from a strange email client
that generates so much space between lines that they scroll off the
bottom of the message window and if I don't look at the scroll bar I
miss most of the text.

john

Re: confusing fuel bills from bulb

<LVwyyGFDrzbiFw75@a.a>

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From: G6J...@255soft.uk (J. P. Gilliver (John))
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: confusing fuel bills from bulb
Date: Mon, 2 May 2022 02:58:27 +0100
Organization: 255 software
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 by: J. P. Gilliver (John - Mon, 2 May 2022 01:58 UTC

On Sun, 1 May 2022 at 22:26:29, John Ashby <johnashby20@yahoo.com> wrote
(my responses usually FOLLOW):
>On 01/05/2022 21:27, Chris J Dixon wrote:
>> J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
>>
>>> FWIW: I recently had a "conversation" with
>>>Octopus-pretending-to-be-M&S
>>> (by email); I initially just asked about a puzzling bill or two, but got
>>> replies saying something like "the email you just sent us seems to have
>>> nothing in it - can I help you?"; the email _actually saying that_
>>> contained, quoted back to me, the entire text of the "what's going on"
>>> email I had sent them.
>> I recently had a similar email in a different context asking me
>> for a detail which was plain to see quoted in the history.
>> I wonder if it is that those using more flashy email
>> presentations can't see everything that a plain text reader will
>> show?
>>
I'm pretty sure that _is_ the case; however, I don't se why _I_ should
compensate for _their_ poor choice of email software.

Another one that infuriates me is "please enter reply above this line".
>
>I have been stung by receiving emails sent from a strange email client
>that generates so much space between lines that they scroll off the
>bottom of the message window and if I don't look at the scroll bar I
>miss most of the text.

There's at least one I regularly have to deal with that double-spaces
each line - doesn't take many exchanges to make that very spaced.
>
>john
John
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Enjoy life now - it has an expiration date

Re: confusing fuel bills from bulb

<e6uu6hlj7144c7r4h7oipm7bfqok2sgqnl@4ax.com>

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From: vicky.ay...@gmail.com (Vicky)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: confusing fuel bills from bulb
Date: Mon, 02 May 2022 07:40:36 +0100
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 by: Vicky - Mon, 2 May 2022 06:40 UTC

On Sun, 01 May 2022 22:07:04 +0100, Vicky <vicky.ayech@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Sun, 1 May 2022 19:46:21 +0100, BrritSki
><rtilburyTAKEAWAY@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On 01/05/2022 18:11, Vicky wrote:
>---------------

For the period 28 March 2021 to 27 April 2021
Last account balance £ 294.68 in credit
Credit Note on 02/05/21 £ 116.82
Opening balance £ 411.50 in credit
Cost of your energy this month
Electricity - £ 78.55
Gas - £ 41.44
Subtotal - £ 119.99
Your new account balance £ 291.51 in credit
------------------------
25 March 2021 48347 Customer Read
18 April 2021 48641 Customer Read
20 April 2021 48663 Customer Read
28 April 2021 48777 Customer Read
Energy 305 kWh @ 15.25 p/kWh £ 46.51
Energy(1) 125 kWh @ 17.23 p/kWh £ 21.54
Standing charge 25 days @ 19.87 p/day £ 4.97
Standing charge(1) 9 days @ 19.88 p/day £ 1.79
Cost of electricity used £ 74.81
VAT @ 5% £ 3.74
Total electricity costs for this bill £ 78.55
-----------------------------
25 March 2021 7535 Customer Read
18 April 2021 7617 Customer Read
20 April 2021 7622 Customer Read
28 April 2021 7647 Customer Read
Meter units used: 112
Energy* 936 kWh @ 2.59 p/kWh £ 24.24
Energy*(1) 305 kWh @ 2.69 p/kWh £ 8.20
Standing charge 25 days @ 19.47 p/day £ 4.87
Standing charge(1) 9 days @ 23.96 p/day £ 2.16
Cost of gas used £ 39.47
VAT @ 5% £ 1.97
Total gas costs for this bill £ 41.44
-------------------------

Over the next 12 months, we have estimated your
personal projection:
Electricity personal projection: £ 804
Gas personal projection: £ 3383
This projection includes your energy usage, standing
charges and VAT.
Our cheapest similar tariff:
Electricity: Good news - you’re already on th
----------------------------------------
2 May 2021

Statement correction

for 02 May 2021

+ £116.82
£411.50
--------------------

For the period 28 March 2021 to 27 April 2021
Last account balance £ 132.66 in credit
You paid us on 29/04/21 - thank you £ 100.00
Credit Note on 02/05/21 £ 178.84
Opening balance £ 411.50 in credit
Cost of your energy this month
Electricity - £ 76.32
Gas - £ 40.50
Subtotal - £ 116.82
Your new account balance £ 294.68 in credit
----------------------
Over the next 12 months, we have estimated your
personal projection:
Electricity personal projection: £ 804
Gas personal projection: £ 3383
This projection includes your energy usage, standing
-------------------
25 March 2021 48347 Customer Read
18 April 2021 48641 Customer Read
20 April 2021 48663 Customer Read
28 April 2021 48765 Estimate
Energy 305 kWh @ 15.25 p/kWh £ 46.51
Energy(1) 113 kWh @ 17.23 p/kWh £ 19.42
Standing charge 25 days @ 19.87 p/day £ 4.97
Standing charge(1) 9 days @ 19.88 p/day £ 1.79
Cost of electricity used £ 72.69
VAT @ 5% £ 3.63
Total electricity costs for this bill £ 76.32
---------------------
25 March 2021 7535 Customer Read
18 April 2021 7617 Customer Read
20 April 2021 7622 Customer Read
28 April 2021 7644 Estimate
Meter units used: 109
Energy* 936 kWh @ 2.59 p/kWh £ 24.24
Energy*(1) 271 kWh @ 2.69 p/kWh £ 7.30
Standing charge 25 days @ 19.47 p/day £ 4.87
Standing charge(1) 9 days @ 23.96 p/day £ 2.16
Cost of gas used £ 38.57
VAT @ 5% £ 1.93
Total gas costs for this bill £ 40.50
---------------------------

2 May 2021

Statement correction

for 28 Apr 2021

+ £178.84
£411.50
------------------
For the period 28 March 2021 to 27 April 2021
Last account balance £ 181.50 in credit
You paid us on 30/03/21 - thank you £ 130.00
Opening balance £ 311.50 in credit
Cost of your energy this month
Electricity - £ 73.25
Gas - £ 105.59
Subtotal - £ 178.84
Your new account balance £ 132.66 in credit
------------------
Over the next 12 months, we have estimated your
personal projection:
Electricity personal projection: £ 804
Gas personal projection: £ 3379
This projection includes your energy usage, standing
------------------
25 March 2021 48347 Customer Read
18 April 2021 48641 Customer Read
20 April 2021 48663 Customer Read
28 April 2021 48748 Estimate
Energy 305 kWh @ 15.25 p/kWh £ 46.51
Energy(1) 96 kWh @ 17.23 p/kWh £ 16.49
Standing charge 25 days @ 19.87 p/day £ 4.97
Standing charge(1) 9 days @ 19.88 p/day £ 1.79
Cost of electricity used £ 69.76
VAT @ 5% £ 3.49
Total electricity costs for this bill £ 73.25

----------------
Meter readings
25 March 2021 7535 Customer Read
18 April 2021 7617 Customer Read
20 April 2021 7622 Customer Read
28 April 2021 7852 Estimate
Meter units used: 317
Energy* 936 kWh @ 2.59 p/kWh £ 24.24
Energy*(1) 2576 kWh @ 2.69 p/kWh £ 69.29
Standing charge 25 days @ 19.47 p/day £ 4.87
Standing charge(1) 9 days @ 23.96 p/day £ 2.16
Cost of gas used £ 100.56
VAT @ 5% £ 5.03
Total gas costs for this bill £ 105.59

-------------
30 Mar 2021

Payment

by Direct Debit

+ £130.00
£311.50
------------
For the period 28 February 2021 to 27 March 2021
Last account balance £ 144.45 in credit
You paid us on 03/03/21 - thank you £ 130.00
Opening balance £ 274.45 in credit
Cost of your energy this month
Electricity - £ 57.83
Gas - £ 35.12
Subtotal - £ 92.95
Your new account balance £ 181.50 in credit
---------------------
Over the next 12 months, we have estimated your
personal projection:
Electricity personal projection: £ 792
Gas personal projection: £ 2404
This projection includes your energy usage, standing
----------
26 February 2021 48021 Customer Read
21 March 2021 48302 Customer Read
24 March 2021 48336 Customer Read
25 March 2021 48347 Customer Read
Energy 326 kWh @ 15.25 p/kWh £ 49.71
Standing charge 27 days @ 19.87 p/day £ 5.37
Cost of electricity used £ 55.08
VAT @ 5% £ 2.75
Total electricity costs for this bill £ 57.83
---------------
26 February 2021 7437 Customer Read
21 March 2021 7522 Customer Read
24 March 2021 7532 Customer Read
25 March 2021 7535 Customer Read
Meter units used: 98
Energy* 1088 kWh @ 2.59 p/kWh £ 28.19
Standing charge 27 days @ 19.47 p/day £ 5.26
Cost of gas used £ 33.45
VAT @ 5% £ 1.67
Total gas costs for this bill £ 35.12
------------------------
For the period 28 January 2021 to 27 February 2021
Last account balance £ 179.32 in credit
Opening balance £ 179.32 in credit
Cost of your energy this month
Electricity - £ 60.66
Gas £ 25.79
Subtotal - £ 34.87
Your new account balance £ 144.45 in credit
-------------------
Could you pay less?
Over the next 12 months, we have estimated your
personal projection:
Electricity personal projection: £ 723
Gas personal projection: £ 2307
This projection includes your energy usage, standing
-----------------
28 January 2021 47680 Estimate
22 February 2021 47873 Customer Read
25 February 2021 48008 Customer Read
26 February 2021 48021 Customer Read
Energy 341 kWh @ 15.25 p/kWh £ 52.01
Standing charge 29 days @ 19.87 p/day £ 5.76
Cost of electricity used £ 57.77
VAT @ 5% £ 2.89
Total electricity costs for this bill £ 60.66
-------
28 January 2021 7542 Estimate
22 February 2021 7421 Customer Read
25 February 2021 7427 Customer Read
26 February 2021 7437 Customer Read
Meter units used: -105
Energy* -1166 kWh @ 2.59 p/kWh - £ 30.21
Standing charge 29 days @ 19.47 p/day £ 5.65
Cost of gas used - £ 24.56
VAT @ 5% - £ 1.23
Total gas costs for this bill - £ 25.79
-----------------

For the period 28 December 2020 to 27 January 2021
Last account balance £ 489.50 in debit
You paid us on 29/01/21 - thank you £ 130.00
Credit Note on 14/02/21 £ 440.74
Opening balance £ 81.24 in credit
Cost of your energy this month
Electricity - £ 67.17
Gas £ 165.25
Subtotal £ 98.08
Your new account balance £ 179.32 in credit
----------------
Over the next 12 months, we have estimated your
personal projection:
Electricity personal projection: £ 766
Gas personal projection: £ 2312
This projection includes your energy usag
------------------
28 December
2020
8113 Estimate
28 January 2021 7542 Estimate
Meter units used: -571
Energy* -6310 kWh @ 2.59 p/kWh - £ 163.42
Standing charge 31 days @ 19.47 p/day £ 6.04
Cost of gas used - £ 157.38
VAT @ 5% - £ 7.87
Total gas costs for this bill - £ 165.25
----------------

14 Feb 2021

Statement correction

for 28 Jan 2021

+ £440.74
£81.24
-----------------
For the period 28 November 2020 to 27 December
2020
Last account balance £ 177.24 in debit
Credit Note on 29/12/20 £ 401.95
Opening balance £ 224.71 in credit
Cost of your energy this month
Electricity - £ 82.27
Gas - £ 321.20
Subtotal - £ 403.47
Your new account balance £ 178.76 in debit
-------------
Electricity personal projection: £ 766
Gas personal projection: £ 2220
This projection includes your energy usage, standing
charges and VAT.
Our cheapest similar tariff:
Electricity: Good news - you’re already on th
---------
25 November
2020
46830 Read
28 December
2020
47301 Estimate
Energy 471 kWh @ 15.25 p/kWh £ 71.79
Standing charge 33 days @ 19.87 p/day £ 6.56
Cost of electricity used £ 78.35
VAT @ 5% £ 3.92
Total electricity costs for this bill £ 82.27
--------


Click here to read the complete article
Re: confusing fuel bills from bulb

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From: toodle.p...@virginmedia.com (Mike McMillan)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: confusing fuel bills from bulb
Date: Mon, 2 May 2022 07:36:44 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Mike McMillan - Mon, 2 May 2022 07:36 UTC

Chris J Dixon <chris@cdixon.me.uk> wrote:
> J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
>
>> FWIW: I recently had a "conversation" with Octopus-pretending-to-be-M&S
>> (by email); I initially just asked about a puzzling bill or two, but got
>> replies saying something like "the email you just sent us seems to have
>> nothing in it - can I help you?"; the email _actually saying that_
>> contained, quoted back to me, the entire text of the "what's going on"
>> email I had sent them.
>
> I recently had a similar email in a different context asking me
> for a detail which was plain to see quoted in the history.
>
> I wonder if it is that those using more flashy email
> presentations can't see everything that a plain text reader will
> show?
>
> I was also bemused by a note in every response "Please do not
> alter this email Subject as we will be unable to trace the
> history of your enquiry"
>
> The subject was "Re: Your message to Epson"
>
> I wondered if perhaps there should have been some reference
> appended, there was one shown elsewhere in the header.
>
> Chris

Embedded data (possibly shown in white text at that?)

--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan

Re: confusing fuel bills from bulb

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From: toodle.p...@virginmedia.com (Mike McMillan)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: confusing fuel bills from bulb
Date: Mon, 2 May 2022 07:39:19 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Mike McMillan - Mon, 2 May 2022 07:39 UTC

J. P. Gilliver (John) <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
> On Sun, 1 May 2022 at 22:26:29, John Ashby <johnashby20@yahoo.com> wrote
> (my responses usually FOLLOW):
>> On 01/05/2022 21:27, Chris J Dixon wrote:
>>> J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
>>>
>>>> FWIW: I recently had a "conversation" with
>>>> Octopus-pretending-to-be-M&S
>>>> (by email); I initially just asked about a puzzling bill or two, but got
>>>> replies saying something like "the email you just sent us seems to have
>>>> nothing in it - can I help you?"; the email _actually saying that_
>>>> contained, quoted back to me, the entire text of the "what's going on"
>>>> email I had sent them.
>>> I recently had a similar email in a different context asking me
>>> for a detail which was plain to see quoted in the history.
>>> I wonder if it is that those using more flashy email
>>> presentations can't see everything that a plain text reader will
>>> show?
>>>
> I'm pretty sure that _is_ the case; however, I don't se why _I_ should
> compensate for _their_ poor choice of email software.
>
> Another one that infuriates me is "please enter reply above this line".
>>
>> I have been stung by receiving emails sent from a strange email client
>> that generates so much space between lines that they scroll off the
>> bottom of the message window and if I don't look at the scroll bar I
>> miss most of the text.
>
> There's at least one I regularly have to deal with that double-spaces
> each line - doesn't take many exchanges to make that very spaced.
>>
>> john
> John

Whereas emails from EonNext seem to reduce leading to 50% of normal
spacing.

--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan

Re: confusing fuel bills from bulb

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From: rtilbury...@gmail.com (BrritSki)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: confusing fuel bills from bulb
Date: Mon, 2 May 2022 09:07:09 +0100
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 by: BrritSki - Mon, 2 May 2022 08:07 UTC

On 01/05/2022 22:07, Vicky wrote:
>
Great, I'll put it all in a spreadsheet later and see if there are any
conclusions to be drawn.

However it may be tomorrow as we are off out for lunch.

Re: confusing fuel bills from bulb

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From: jja...@blueyonder.co.uk (John Armstrong)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: confusing fuel bills from bulb
Date: Mon, 02 May 2022 09:09:50 +0100
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 by: John Armstrong - Mon, 2 May 2022 08:09 UTC

On Sun, 1 May 2022 14:08:01 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
<G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:

>I'm puzzled by "cut the DD very low"; I thought the whole point of DD
>(and why I avoid it wherever I can) was that the company can take
>whatever amount they want. (Basically, you hold out your wallet to them
>and say "help yourself - oh, you will tell me hoe much you're going to
>take, won't you?".) If _you_ can set the amount, then surely it could be
>done by standing order.

I have commented on this in a reply in the "out of step" thread. You
are right; they can take what they want, but they have to tell you
first and provide justification. This why it helps to have reliable
documentary evidence.

Re: confusing fuel bills from bulb

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From: chr...@cdixon.me.uk (Chris J Dixon)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: confusing fuel bills from bulb
Date: Mon, 02 May 2022 09:14:32 +0100
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 by: Chris J Dixon - Mon, 2 May 2022 08:14 UTC

Mike McMillan wrote:

>Chris J Dixon <chris@cdixon.me.uk> wrote:

>> I was also bemused by a note in every response "Please do not
>> alter this email Subject as we will be unable to trace the
>> history of your enquiry"
>>
>> The subject was "Re: Your message to Epson"
>>
>> I wondered if perhaps there should have been some reference
>> appended, there was one shown elsewhere in the header.

>Embedded data (possibly shown in white text at that?)

Nothing that Agent will show me.

From the headers:

"Subject: RE: Your message to Epson
Thread-Topic: Your message to Epson
Thread-Index: AQHYTwjnEw6GTxHiWkqYMYuhXpCp79hPKY/J"

I have no idea how these are generated, perhaps a change of
subject would cause them to be overwritten.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham
'48/33 M B+ G++ A L(-) I S-- CH0(--)(p) Ar- T+ H0 ?Q
chris@cdixon.me.uk @ChrisJDixon1
Plant amazing Acers.

Re: confusing fuel bills from bulb

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From: vicky.ay...@gmail.com (Vicky)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: confusing fuel bills from bulb
Date: Mon, 02 May 2022 09:32:45 +0100
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 by: Vicky - Mon, 2 May 2022 08:32 UTC

On Mon, 2 May 2022 09:07:09 +0100, BrritSki
<rtilburyTAKEAWAY@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 01/05/2022 22:07, Vicky wrote:
>>
>Great, I'll put it all in a spreadsheet later and see if there are any
>conclusions to be drawn.
>
>However it may be tomorrow as we are off out for lunch.

Thank you and have a nice lunch. The conclusions may be that bulb has
odd algorythms. The projected gas use for the future was often a bit
high. I looked at it each month and said bad words.

Re: confusing fuel bills from bulb

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From: krw...@whitnet.uk (krw)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: confusing fuel bills from bulb
Date: Mon, 2 May 2022 09:59:14 +0100
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 by: krw - Mon, 2 May 2022 08:59 UTC

On 1.5.22 16:50, Mike McMillan wrote:
> krw <krw@whitnet.uk> wrote:
>> On 1.5.22 13:32, BrritSki wrote:
>>> On 01/05/2022 10:32, Vicky wrote:
>>>> After years of arguing over wrong estimates and getting refunds and
>>>> trhen their taking DDs I did not authorse and not paying back, but
>>>> then I cut the DD very low till the surplus was used, and then
>>>> requests to make £800+ a month DD! I cancelled DD and the last 2
>>>> months paid all off by CC but only the last month can I see what
>>>> monthly use is.  I can't make it go in the columns. Maybe some clever
>>>> umrat can.
>>>
>>> Not without the source data we can;t.
>>>
>>> What is missing from your post is this:
>>>
>>> Meter readings (Day)
>>> 27 February 2022 11523.0 Customer Read
>>> 25 March 2022 11622.0 Customer Read
>>> Meter readings (Night)
>>> 27 February 2022 2833.0 Customer Read
>>> 25 March 2022 2854.0 Customer Read
>>>
>>> Download each monthly statement and you'll find this on Page 3 of the
>>> PDF for electricity as shown above and page 3 for gas e.g.
>>>
>>> Meter readings
>>> 27 February 2022 5555 Customer Read
>>> 25 March 2022 5660 Customer Read
>>> Meter units used: 105
>>>
>>
>> I might have a degree in physics but our physics teacher's most useful
>> lesson was teaching us how to understand fuel bills and the computations
>> needed to convert meter readings into bills, particularly in the days of
>> town gas (the North Sea had not been invented) and therefore the
>> calorific value had to be provided to enable the computation to work.
>> North Sea Gas simplified the calculation.
>>
>
> The calorific value is still part of the computation with natural gas (at
> least it is part of the calculation used to determine kW/h by EonNext on my
> bills).
>
>

It is - I agree. But in the days of Town Gas the value changed and had
to be given to customers each quarter.

--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics

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From: spa...@labyrinth.freeuk.com (Penny)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: confusing fuel bills from bulb
Date: Mon, 02 May 2022 11:00:55 +0100
Organization: given up on it
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 by: Penny - Mon, 2 May 2022 10:00 UTC

On Sun, 01 May 2022 22:07:04 +0100, Vicky <vicky.ayech@gmail.com> scrawled
in the dust...

>Gas personal projection: £ 3980

That must surely be wrong!
In the 7 months you've shown (May, July, Sept, Oct 2021 and Feb 2022 are
missing) your gas usage (if I added correctly) was £346.80.

If the mad projection was made in April 2021, it suggests a large error
before then.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959

Re: confusing fuel bills from bulb

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Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: confusing fuel bills from bulb
Date: Mon, 02 May 2022 11:05:23 +0100
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 by: Vicky - Mon, 2 May 2022 10:05 UTC

On Mon, 02 May 2022 11:00:55 +0100, Penny <spam@labyrinth.freeuk.com>
wrote:

>On Sun, 01 May 2022 22:07:04 +0100, Vicky <vicky.ayech@gmail.com> scrawled
>in the dust...
>
>>Gas personal projection: £ 3980
>
>That must surely be wrong!
>In the 7 months you've shown (May, July, Sept, Oct 2021 and Feb 2022 are
>missing) your gas usage (if I added correctly) was £346.80.
>
>If the mad projection was made in April 2021, it suggests a large error
>before then.

They made errors from the time we joined. They did respond to emails
etc and promised to change the algorythms but never did. Those
affected any estimated readings. The automatic bits of the system were
never in tune with reality and customer service people.

Pages:12
server_pubkey.txt

rocksolid light 0.9.7
clearnet tor