Jpeg appended this:

J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
But this can only happen if we replace the urge to blame with the urge to
learn so that it is safe for staff to admit errors and raise concerns
without
the fear of being punished.

- Former MI5 boss Eliza Manningham-Buller, RT 2016/5/7-13

‘Oh how true, even today’ (Thank you Quote Unquote - Round the Horn/Beyond
our Ken I think)

--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan

On Sat, 30 Apr 2022 at 18:29:01, Mike McMillan
<toodle.pip1@virginmedia.com> wrote (my responses usually FOLLOW):
>Jpeg appended this:
>
>J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
>But this can only happen if we replace the urge to blame with the urge to
>learn so that it is safe for staff to admit errors and raise concerns
>without
>the fear of being punished.
>
>- Former MI5 boss Eliza Manningham-Buller, RT 2016/5/7-13
>
>‘Oh how true, even today’ (Thank you Quote Unquote - Round the Horn/Beyond
>our Ken I think)
>
Or in short, "blame culture" mean nothing ever gets fixed as no-one will
ever admit to anything; similarly, the probability that someone will sue
is the main reason nobody apologises until absolutely forced to, even
though I'm sure lots would like to.

What made you think it was appropriate - tractorgate (am I the first to
call it that? Probably not), the alleged knees report, or something
else?
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Santa's elves are just a bunch of subordinate Clauses.

J. P. Gilliver (John) <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
> On Sat, 30 Apr 2022 at 18:29:01, Mike McMillan
> <toodle.pip1@virginmedia.com> wrote (my responses usually FOLLOW):
>> Jpeg appended this:
>>
>> J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
>> But this can only happen if we replace the urge to blame with the urge to
>> learn so that it is safe for staff to admit errors and raise concerns
>> without
>> the fear of being punished.
>>
>> - Former MI5 boss Eliza Manningham-Buller, RT 2016/5/7-13
>>
>> ‘Oh how true, even today’ (Thank you Quote Unquote - Round the Horn/Beyond
>> our Ken I think)
>>
> Or in short, "blame culture" mean nothing ever gets fixed as no-one will
> ever admit to anything; similarly, the probability that someone will sue
> is the main reason nobody apologises until absolutely forced to, even
> though I'm sure lots would like to.
>
> What made you think it was appropriate - tractorgate (am I the first to
> call it that? Probably not), the alleged knees report, or something
> else?

Partygate, Tractorgate, even Legsgate.

--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

>Or in short, "blame culture" mean nothing ever gets fixed as no-one will
>ever admit to anything; similarly, the probability that someone will sue
>is the main reason nobody apologises until absolutely forced to, even
>though I'm sure lots would like to.

In more trivial matters, I notice that if I raise a question
with, say, a supermarket, the chance of them ever agreeing that
maybe there is something in my point is so remote as to be
negligible.

It is not as if I am after money, or a replacement, it would cost
them nothing to say, "perhaps we could have done better", but
they are clearly programmed never to even consider such a thing.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham
'48/33 M B+ G++ A L(-) I S-- CH0(--)(p) Ar- T+ H0 ?Q
chris@cdixon.me.uk @ChrisJDixon1
Plant amazing Acers.

On Sunday, 1 May 2022 at 21:13:15 UTC+1, Chris J Dixon wrote:
> J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
>
> >Or in short, "blame culture" mean nothing ever gets fixed as no-one will
> >ever admit to anything; similarly, the probability that someone will sue
> >is the main reason nobody apologises until absolutely forced to, even
> >though I'm sure lots would like to.
> In more trivial matters, I notice that if I raise a question
> with, say, a supermarket, the chance of them ever agreeing that
> maybe there is something in my point is so remote as to be
> negligible.
>
> It is not as if I am after money, or a replacement, it would cost
> them nothing to say, "perhaps we could have done better", but
> they are clearly programmed never to even consider such a thing.
>
> Chris
I am forever explaining to the first person I speak to that I am *not*
upset/angry/accusing them, but whatever the company has done.
Some of them keep on trying to make me say I'm 'happy', even when
absolutely zero progress has been made on my complaint. Weird.
--
Min

Chris J Dixon <chris@cdixon.me.uk> wrote:
> J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
>
>> Or in short, "blame culture" mean nothing ever gets fixed as no-one will
>> ever admit to anything; similarly, the probability that someone will sue
>> is the main reason nobody apologises until absolutely forced to, even
>> though I'm sure lots would like to.
>
> In more trivial matters, I notice that if I raise a question
> with, say, a supermarket, the chance of them ever agreeing that
> maybe there is something in my point is so remote as to be
> negligible.
>
> It is not as if I am after money, or a replacement, it would cost
> them nothing to say, "perhaps we could have done better", but
> they are clearly programmed never to even consider such a thing.
>
> Chris

But why should they alopogise to you when in all fairness, *everyone* knows
they have not and can do not, any wrong??? ;-)))

--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan

On 01/05/2022 21:13, Chris J Dixon wrote:
> J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
>
>> Or in short, "blame culture" mean nothing ever gets fixed as no-one will
>> ever admit to anything; similarly, the probability that someone will sue
>> is the main reason nobody apologises until absolutely forced to, even
>> though I'm sure lots would like to.
>
> In more trivial matters, I notice that if I raise a question
> with, say, a supermarket, the chance of them ever agreeing that
> maybe there is something in my point is so remote as to be
> negligible.
>
> It is not as if I am after money, or a replacement, it would cost
> them nothing to say, "perhaps we could have done better", but
> they are clearly programmed never to even consider such a thing.
>
I have complained politely and with explanations recently to Waitrose
(about cream, AGAIN) and Tesco and in both cases I received full
apologies and a refund, although like you I wasn't worried about the
money, just in getting the problem resolved so I could enjoy my morning
breakfast bacon (I shop so rarely at W as there produce is very
expensive and ime no better than T).

When our EasyJet return flight from Venice was cancelled last month I
contacted them and said I didn't want to claim compensation as we got
home the same day (albeit to LGW instead of LTN and lost the last
morning and lunch of our holiday) and I want EZJ to continue in
operation, but I would like my out-of-pocket expenses refunded which was
about £70 in addition the the flight refunds already received.
I sent this by Twitter DM which has worked well for me in the past. No
reply so sent a reminder and an email. No reply so sent an email to the
CEO. Aha ! A response telling me to fill in a claim form with receipts
(CC bills not accepted and neither would onward travel be which was a
large part of it, even using our Luton return. ALternatively I could
claim compensation.
So I did that for just one of us thinking it was only £100 and wasn't
much more than I wanted to claim. Yesterday I was advised that my claim
had been accepted and I was getting £220. Still not sure why, but it
would have been so much easier if they'd just sent me £70. I would have
been happy and they would have saved £150.

On Mon, 2 May 2022 07:42:10 -0000 (UTC), Mike McMillan
<toodle.pip1@virginmedia.com> wrote:

>Chris J Dixon <chris@cdixon.me.uk> wrote:
>> J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
>>
>>> Or in short, "blame culture" mean nothing ever gets fixed as no-one will
>>> ever admit to anything; similarly, the probability that someone will sue
>>> is the main reason nobody apologises until absolutely forced to, even
>>> though I'm sure lots would like to.
>>
>> In more trivial matters, I notice that if I raise a question
>> with, say, a supermarket, the chance of them ever agreeing that
>> maybe there is something in my point is so remote as to be
>> negligible.
>>
>> It is not as if I am after money, or a replacement, it would cost
>> them nothing to say, "perhaps we could have done better", but
>> they are clearly programmed never to even consider such a thing.
>>
>> Chris
>
>But why should they alopogise to you when in all fairness, *everyone* knows
>they have not and can do not, any wrong??? ;-)))

It's like when banks didn't admit for ages that their systems could be
hacked and individual clients could not have withdrawn the money.

On 02/05/2022 09:18, BrritSki wrote:
>
> When our EasyJet return flight from Venice was cancelled last month I
> contacted them and said I didn't want to claim compensation as we got
> home the same day (albeit to LGW instead of LTN and lost the last
> morning and lunch of our holiday) and I want EZJ to continue in
> operation, but I would like my out-of-pocket expenses refunded which was
> about £70 in addition the the flight refunds already received.
> I sent this by Twitter DM which has worked well for me in the past. No
> reply so sent a reminder and an email. No reply so sent an email to the
> CEO. Aha !  A response telling me to fill in a claim form with receipts
> (CC bills not accepted and neither would onward travel be which was a
> large part of it, even using our Luton return. ALternatively I could
> claim compensation.
> So I did that for just one of us thinking it was only £100 and wasn't
> much more than I wanted to claim. Yesterday I was advised that my claim
> had been accepted and I was getting £220. Still not sure why, but it
> would have been so much easier if they'd just sent me £70. I would have
> been happy and they would have saved £150.

It's probably a matter of systems and procedures and your need to fit in.

In the dim and distant past a colleague was on call but had no phone in
his home. He asked the company for a loan to get a phone connected.
There was then several months of "You need to get a phone installed. We
can't keep sending a courier round every time there is a problem." "I
can't afford to get a phone installed. I'm waiting for a company loan so
I can do it." Eventually somebody worked out that there was no mechanism
for repaying a loan and he needed to ask for a gift. Problem solved.
(OK. How he was able to apply for a loan when there was no possibility
of getting a loan is another question.)

--
Ric

On Mon, 2 May 2022 09:18:12 +0100, BrritSki
<rtilburyTAKEAWAY@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 01/05/2022 21:13, Chris J Dixon wrote:
>> J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
>>
>>> Or in short, "blame culture" mean nothing ever gets fixed as no-one will
>>> ever admit to anything; similarly, the probability that someone will sue
>>> is the main reason nobody apologises until absolutely forced to, even
>>> though I'm sure lots would like to.
>>
>> In more trivial matters, I notice that if I raise a question
>> with, say, a supermarket, the chance of them ever agreeing that
>> maybe there is something in my point is so remote as to be
>> negligible.
>>
>> It is not as if I am after money, or a replacement, it would cost
>> them nothing to say, "perhaps we could have done better", but
>> they are clearly programmed never to even consider such a thing.
>>
>I have complained politely and with explanations recently to Waitrose
>(about cream, AGAIN) and Tesco and in both cases I received full
>apologies and a refund, although like you I wasn't worried about the
>money, just in getting the problem resolved so I could enjoy my morning
>breakfast bacon (I shop so rarely at W as there produce is very
>expensive and ime no better than T).
>
>When our EasyJet return flight from Venice was cancelled last month I
>contacted them and said I didn't want to claim compensation as we got
>home the same day (albeit to LGW instead of LTN and lost the last
>morning and lunch of our holiday) and I want EZJ to continue in
>operation, but I would like my out-of-pocket expenses refunded which was
>about £70 in addition the the flight refunds already received.
>I sent this by Twitter DM which has worked well for me in the past. No
>reply so sent a reminder and an email. No reply so sent an email to the
>CEO. Aha ! A response telling me to fill in a claim form with receipts
>(CC bills not accepted and neither would onward travel be which was a
>large part of it, even using our Luton return. ALternatively I could
>claim compensation.
>So I did that for just one of us thinking it was only £100 and wasn't
>much more than I wanted to claim. Yesterday I was advised that my claim
>had been accepted and I was getting £220. Still not sure why, but it
>would have been so much easier if they'd just sent me £70. I would have
>been happy and they would have saved £150.

I suspect though ICBW that there is an essential difference between
Tesco et al and Easyjet et al. Although there might be similarities
between problems at Tesco, each issue is different and their staff
have to think of them differently too. Although there might be
differences between problems at Easyjet, each issue is usually
filtered through the lens of IATA, European Legislation etc. etc and
their staff might struggle when something different comes up.

There have been several occasions when I've been eligible for
compensation from an airline but I've never actually claimed it.
Mostly because I was not inconvenienced that much and it wasn't really
the airline's fault. On the one occasion when I was seriously
inconvenienced, thanks to the way the legislation worked, the real
villain of the piece (BA I'm looking at you) was untouchable and the
company I would have had to claim from was an innocent party which had
done their best so it didn't seem really fair to go after their money.
Nick

Vicky <vicky.ayech@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 2 May 2022 07:42:10 -0000 (UTC), Mike McMillan
> <toodle.pip1@virginmedia.com> wrote:
>
>> Chris J Dixon <chris@cdixon.me.uk> wrote:
>>> J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
>>>
>>>> Or in short, "blame culture" mean nothing ever gets fixed as no-one will
>>>> ever admit to anything; similarly, the probability that someone will sue
>>>> is the main reason nobody apologises until absolutely forced to, even
>>>> though I'm sure lots would like to.
>>>
>>> In more trivial matters, I notice that if I raise a question
>>> with, say, a supermarket, the chance of them ever agreeing that
>>> maybe there is something in my point is so remote as to be
>>> negligible.
>>>
>>> It is not as if I am after money, or a replacement, it would cost
>>> them nothing to say, "perhaps we could have done better", but
>>> they are clearly programmed never to even consider such a thing.
>>>
>>> Chris
>>
>> But why should they alopogise to you when in all fairness, *everyone* knows
>> they have not and can do not, any wrong??? ;-)))
>
> It's like when banks didn't admit for ages that their systems could be
> hacked and individual clients could not have withdrawn the money.
>

And the PO still has problems on the Horizon…

--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan

On 02-May-22 8:42, Mike McMillan wrote:
> Chris J Dixon <chris@cdixon.me.uk> wrote:

>> In more trivial matters, I notice that if I raise a question
>> with, say, a supermarket, the chance of them ever agreeing that
>> maybe there is something in my point is so remote as to be
>> negligible.
>>
>> It is not as if I am after money, or a replacement, it would cost
>> them nothing to say, "perhaps we could have done better", but
>> they are clearly programmed never to even consider such a thing.
>>
>> Chris
>
> But why should they alopogise to you when in all fairness, *everyone* knows
> they have not and can do not, any wrong??? ;-)))

Indeed.

"I didn't get where I am today by admitting that our system is capable
of making mistakes!"

There are only problem customers.

--
Sam Plusnet

Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
> On 02-May-22 8:42, Mike McMillan wrote:
>> Chris J Dixon <chris@cdixon.me.uk> wrote:
>
>>> In more trivial matters, I notice that if I raise a question
>>> with, say, a supermarket, the chance of them ever agreeing that
>>> maybe there is something in my point is so remote as to be
>>> negligible.
>>>
>>> It is not as if I am after money, or a replacement, it would cost
>>> them nothing to say, "perhaps we could have done better", but
>>> they are clearly programmed never to even consider such a thing.
>>>
>>> Chris
>>
>> But why should they alopogise to you when in all fairness, *everyone* knows
>> they have not and can do not, any wrong??? ;-)))
>
> Indeed.
>
> "I didn't get where I am today by admitting that our system is capable
> of making mistakes!"
>
> There are only problem customers.
>

Jazzer might tell you ‘Just difficult situations’.

--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan