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aus+uk / aus.legal / Re: Returning goods?

SubjectAuthor
* Returning goods?Peter Jason
+* Re: Returning goods?Sylvia Else
|+- Re: Returning goods?Rod Speed
|`* Re: Returning goods?Peter Jason
| `- Re: Returning goods?Petzl
`* Re: Returning goods?Rod Speed
 +- Re: Returning goods?Rod Speed
 +- Re: Returning goods?Peter Jason
 `* Re: Returning goods?Sylvia Else
  `* Re: Returning goods?Rod Speed
   `* Re: Returning goods?Peter Jason
    `* Re: Returning goods?Rod Speed
     `* Re: Returning goods?Peter Jason
      `* Re: Returning goods?Rod Speed
       `* Re: Returning goods?Peter Jason
        `- Re: Returning goods?Rod Speed

1
Returning goods?

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From: pj...@jostle.com (Peter Jason)
Newsgroups: aus.legal
Subject: Returning goods?
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2023 08:47:53 +1100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Peter Jason - Wed, 27 Dec 2023 21:47 UTC

I bought a new keyboard (HP) from a retailer.

I installed it the same day and one of the numeric keys broke off.

I'm not impressed with HP, so can I get...

1/ A store credit for the full price?

2/ Another-brand keyboard for the same price?

3/ Cash reimbursement?

Can I insist on cash or a store credit?

Re: Returning goods?

<kv3pr8Fhpe3U2@mid.individual.net>

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From: syl...@email.invalid (Sylvia Else)
Newsgroups: aus.legal
Subject: Re: Returning goods?
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2023 10:21:12 +1100
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 by: Sylvia Else - Wed, 27 Dec 2023 23:21 UTC

On 28-Dec-23 8:47 am, Peter Jason wrote:
> I bought a new keyboard (HP) from a retailer.
>
> I installed it the same day and one of the numeric keys broke off.
>
> I'm not impressed with HP, so can I get...
>
> 1/ A store credit for the full price?
>
> 2/ Another-brand keyboard for the same price?
>
> 3/ Cash reimbursement?
>
> Can I insist on cash or a store credit?
>

The goods were defective, so you are entitled to a cash refund.

Sylvia.

Re: Returning goods?

<op.2gn8bgj3byq249@pvr2.lan>

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From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: aus.legal
Subject: Re: Returning goods?
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2023 03:34:18 +1100
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 by: Rod Speed - Thu, 28 Dec 2023 16:34 UTC

Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> wrote
> Peter Jason wrote

>> I bought a new keyboard (HP) from a retailer.
>> I installed it the same day and one of the numeric keys broke off.
>> I'm not impressed with HP, so can I get...
>> 1/ A store credit for the full price?
>> 2/ Another-brand keyboard for the same price?
>> 3/ Cash reimbursement?
>> Can I insist on cash or a store credit?

> The goods were defective, so you are entitled to a cash refund.

Legally the retailler is free to just provide a non defective
replacement of another of the same keyboard unless they
have said that they do better than that or offer a free return
if you decide you don't like it when you get it home.

Re: Returning goods?

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From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: aus.legal
Subject: Re: Returning goods?
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2023 03:34:23 +1100
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 by: Rod Speed - Thu, 28 Dec 2023 16:34 UTC

Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote

> I bought a new keyboard (HP) from a retailer.

> I installed it the same day and one of the numeric keys broke off.

> I'm not impressed with HP, so can I get...

> 1/ A store credit for the full price?

Yes

> 2/ Another-brand keyboard for the same price?

That's up to the retailer.

> 3/ Cash reimbursement?

Yes.

> Can I insist on cash or a store credit?

No, legally they can just provide another of the same keyboard
unless the retailler has said that they will do better than that on
their web site etc.

Re: Returning goods?

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From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: aus.legal
Subject: Re: Returning goods?
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2023 08:23:31 +1100
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 by: Rod Speed - Thu, 28 Dec 2023 21:23 UTC

Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
> Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote

>> I bought a new keyboard (HP) from a retailer.

>> I installed it the same day and one of the numeric keys broke off.

>> I'm not impressed with HP, so can I get...

>> 1/ A store credit for the full price?

> Yes

>> 2/ Another-brand keyboard for the same price?

> That's up to the retailer.

>> 3/ Cash reimbursement?

> Yes.

>> Can I insist on cash or a store credit?

> No, legally they can just provide another of the samekeyboard unless
> the retailler has said that they willdo better than that on their web
> site etc.

If you don't get the result you want with the retailler
easily, you could try HP direct. I normally don't bother
with the retailer and normally just use the manufacturer
with the big US manufacturers. You may well be able to
get a full cash refund just by asking for it from HP and
won't even need to return the dead one.

Haven't actually tried HP myself tho. Google do
require a return. Amazon and Logitech don't.

Re: Returning goods?

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From: pj...@jostle.com (Peter Jason)
Newsgroups: aus.legal
Subject: Re: Returning goods?
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2023 09:39:01 +1100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Peter Jason - Thu, 28 Dec 2023 22:39 UTC

On Thu, 28 Dec 2023 10:21:12 +1100, Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid>
wrote:

>On 28-Dec-23 8:47 am, Peter Jason wrote:
>> I bought a new keyboard (HP) from a retailer.
>>
>> I installed it the same day and one of the numeric keys broke off.
>>
>> I'm not impressed with HP, so can I get...
>>
>> 1/ A store credit for the full price?
>>
>> 2/ Another-brand keyboard for the same price?
>>
>> 3/ Cash reimbursement?
>>
>> Can I insist on cash or a store credit?
>>
>
>The goods were defective, so you are entitled to a cash refund.
>
>Sylvia.

Thanks, I took it back and their repair dept looked at it, pressed the
detached loose key back into place, and said it was fixed.

I tried this before, but the key would not snap back.

I tried to make the fault recur but it wouldn't.

I suppose I must try again over time, and see if it is really fixed,
and if it recurs then take some photos and then take it back.

They said I have 12 month's warranty.

Re: Returning goods?

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From: pj...@jostle.com (Peter Jason)
Newsgroups: aus.legal
Subject: Re: Returning goods?
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2023 09:47:10 +1100
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 by: Peter Jason - Thu, 28 Dec 2023 22:47 UTC

On Fri, 29 Dec 2023 03:34:23 +1100, "Rod Speed"
<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

>Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote
>
>> I bought a new keyboard (HP) from a retailer.
>
>> I installed it the same day and one of the numeric keys broke off.
>
>> I'm not impressed with HP, so can I get...
>
>> 1/ A store credit for the full price?
>
>Yes
>
>> 2/ Another-brand keyboard for the same price?
>
>That's up to the retailer.
>
>> 3/ Cash reimbursement?
>
>Yes.
>
>> Can I insist on cash or a store credit?
>
>No, legally they can just provide another of the same keyboard
>unless the retailler has said that they will do better than that on
>their web site etc.

I'll wait awhile since there's 12Mo warranty. I have upmteen
keyboards I got from the Salvos and the like (about 5$ each) but
finding a suitable one is difficult.
I notice other keyboards in professional offices, such as doctors.
have ones that have flat shallow keys. I suspect these resist errors
of the "fat-finger" variety, and so far this is proving correct.

Re: Returning goods?

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From: syl...@email.invalid (Sylvia Else)
Newsgroups: aus.legal
Subject: Re: Returning goods?
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2023 14:01:04 +1100
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 by: Sylvia Else - Fri, 29 Dec 2023 03:01 UTC

On 29-Dec-23 3:34 am, Rod Speed wrote:
> Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote
>
>> I bought a new keyboard (HP) from a retailer.
>
>> I installed it the same day and one of the numeric keys broke off.
>
>> I'm not impressed with HP, so can I get...
>
>> 1/ A store credit for the full price?
>
> Yes
>
>> 2/ Another-brand keyboard for the same price?
>
> That's up to the retailer.
>
>> 3/ Cash reimbursement?
>
> Yes.
>
>> Can I insist on cash or a store credit?
>
> No, legally they can just provide another of the same keyboard
> unless the retailler has said that they will do better than that on
> their web site etc.

Under section 259 of the Australian Consumer Law,

http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/legis/cth/consol_act/caca2010265/sch2.html

the consumer can reject goods in the event if a major failure.

The expression "major failure" is defined by section 260. Since no one
in their right mind would buy a new keyboard knowing that it has a
broken key, the OP's situation falls within the definition of "major
failure".

Section 263 then specifies the consequences of rejecting the goods, and
subsection (4) makes it clear that the consumer can elect to obtain a
refund.

Note that section 261(c), which concerns replacing the goods, does not
come into play unless the consumer requires the supplier to remedy the
failure.

Sylvia.

Re: Returning goods?

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From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: aus.legal
Subject: Re: Returning goods?
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2023 14:40:10 +1100
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 by: Rod Speed - Fri, 29 Dec 2023 03:40 UTC

Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote

>>> I bought a new keyboard (HP) from a retailer.

>>> I installed it the same day and one of the numeric keys broke off.

>>> I'm not impressed with HP, so can I get...

>>> 1/ A store credit for the full price?

>> Yes

>>> 2/ Another-brand keyboard for the same price?

>> That's up to the retailer.

>>> 3/ Cash reimbursement?

>> Yes.

>>> Can I insist on cash or a store credit?

>> No, legally they can just provide another of thesame keyboard unless
>> the retailler has said thatthey will do better than that on their web
>> site etc.

> Under section 259 of the Australian Consumer Law,
> http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/legis/cth/consol_act/caca2010265/sch2.html
> the consumer can reject goods in the event if a major failure.

He didn't have a major failure and even with a major
failure, the seller does not legally have to provide a
full refund, they are free to provide another copy of
the same device which has not had any failure at all.

> The expression "major failure" is defined by section 260.

And the failure he had is not covered by that definition.

> Since no one in their right mind would buy a newkeyboard knowing that
> it has a broken key,

It didn't have a broken key, just one that needed
to have the keytop clicked back into place.

> the OP's situation falls within the definition of "major failure".

BULLSHIT

> Section 263 then specifies the consequences ofrejecting the goods, and
> subsection (4) makes itclear that the consumer can elect to obtain a
> refund.

He did not reject the goods, he attempted a warranty
claim and that is not a situation where the seller is
required by the legislation of provide a full refund.

> Note that section 261(c), which concerns replacing thegoods, does not
> come into play unless the consumerrequires the supplier to remedy the
> failure.

Which is precisely what Pete did, legally.

Re: Returning goods?

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From: pj...@jostle.com (Peter Jason)
Newsgroups: aus.legal
Subject: Re: Returning goods?
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2023 09:53:17 +1100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Peter Jason - Fri, 29 Dec 2023 22:53 UTC

>
>It didn't have a broken key, just one that needed
>to have the keytop clicked back into place.

Well, let's wait. I'm still suspicious.
>
>> the OP's situation falls within the definition of "major failure".
>
>BULLSHIT
>
>> Section 263 then specifies the consequences ofrejecting the goods, and
>> subsection (4) makes itclear that the consumer can elect to obtain a
>> refund.
>
>He did not reject the goods, he attempted a warranty
>claim and that is not a situation where the seller is
>required by the legislation of provide a full refund.
>
>> Note that section 261(c), which concerns replacing thegoods, does not
>> come into play unless the consumerrequires the supplier to remedy the
>> failure.
>
>Which is precisely what Pete did, legally.

Re: Returning goods?

<tltuoip62cjn9639g1hu0t9hglpan6i9um@4ax.com>

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From: pet...@gmail.com (Petzl)
Newsgroups: aus.legal
Subject: Re: Returning goods?
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2023 12:49:37 +1100
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 by: Petzl - Sat, 30 Dec 2023 01:49 UTC

On Fri, 29 Dec 2023 09:39:01 +1100, Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 28 Dec 2023 10:21:12 +1100, Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid>
>wrote:
>
>>On 28-Dec-23 8:47 am, Peter Jason wrote:
>>> I bought a new keyboard (HP) from a retailer.
>>>
>>> I installed it the same day and one of the numeric keys broke off.
>>>
>>> I'm not impressed with HP, so can I get...
>>>
>>> 1/ A store credit for the full price?
>>>
>>> 2/ Another-brand keyboard for the same price?
>>>
>>> 3/ Cash reimbursement?
>>>
>>> Can I insist on cash or a store credit?
>>>
>>
>>The goods were defective, so you are entitled to a cash refund.
>>
>>Sylvia.
>
>Thanks, I took it back and their repair dept looked at it, pressed the
>detached loose key back into place, and said it was fixed.
>
>I tried this before, but the key would not snap back.
>
>I tried to make the fault recur but it wouldn't.
>
>I suppose I must try again over time, and see if it is really fixed,
>and if it recurs then take some photos and then take it back.
>
>They said I have 12 month's warranty.
>
I once found a vacuum cleaner removes all the keys as well as the
bread crumbs I was aiming for.
They all snapped back on though
--
Petzl
On the sixth day of Christmas. ALBO sent to me...
6 rapists hiding...
5 pedos saliving...
4 killers stalking...
3 terrorists plotting...
2 pervert crims...
.....and 100s of detainees running round free...
Paul Zanetti Cartoonist

Re: Returning goods?

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From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: aus.legal
Subject: Re: Returning goods?
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2023 18:37:21 +1100
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 by: Rod Speed - Sat, 30 Dec 2023 07:37 UTC

Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote

>> It didn't have a broken key, just one that needed
>> to have the keytop clicked back into place.

> Well, let's wait. I'm still suspicious.

Plenty of keyboards do have removeable and replaceable keytops.

>>> the OP's situation falls within the definition of "major failure".

>> BULLSHIT

>>> Section 263 then specifies the consequences ofrejecting the goods, and
>>> subsection (4) makes itclear that the consumer can elect to obtain a
>>> refund.

>> He did not reject the goods, he attempted a warranty
>> claim and that is not a situation where the seller is
>> required by the legislation of provide a full refund.

>>> Note that section 261(c), which concerns replacing thegoods, does not
>>> come into play unless the consumerrequires the supplier to remedy the
>>> failure.

>> Which is precisely what Pete did, legally.

Re: Returning goods?

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Newsgroups: aus.legal
Subject: Re: Returning goods?
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2024 07:48:45 +1100
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 by: Peter Jason - Mon, 1 Jan 2024 20:48 UTC

On Sat, 30 Dec 2023 18:37:21 +1100, "Rod Speed"
<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

>Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote
>
>>> It didn't have a broken key, just one that needed
>>> to have the keytop clicked back into place.
>
>> Well, let's wait. I'm still suspicious.
>
>Plenty of keyboards do have removeable and replaceable keytops.

They do, but getting one with a greater that 55g force and with a
large actuation point is elusive.
>
>>>> the OP's situation falls within the definition of "major failure".
>
>>> BULLSHIT
>
>>>> Section 263 then specifies the consequences ofrejecting the goods, and
>>>> subsection (4) makes itclear that the consumer can elect to obtain a
>>>> refund.
>
>>> He did not reject the goods, he attempted a warranty
>>> claim and that is not a situation where the seller is
>>> required by the legislation of provide a full refund.
>
>>>> Note that section 261(c), which concerns replacing thegoods, does not
>>>> come into play unless the consumerrequires the supplier to remedy the
>>>> failure.
>
>>> Which is precisely what Pete did, legally.

Re: Returning goods?

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From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: aus.legal
Subject: Re: Returning goods?
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2024 12:19:41 +1100
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 by: Rod Speed - Tue, 2 Jan 2024 01:19 UTC

Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote

>>>> It didn't have a broken key, just one that needed
>>>> to have the keytop clicked back into place.

>>> Well, let's wait. I'm still suspicious.

>> Plenty of keyboards do have removeable and replaceable keytops.

> They do, but getting one with a greater that 55g forceand with a large
> actuation point is elusive.

What's "a large actuation point" ?

You can still get copys of the original IBM keyboard but they aint cheap.

Re: Returning goods?

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Subject: Re: Returning goods?
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 by: Peter Jason - Tue, 2 Jan 2024 02:17 UTC

On Tue, 02 Jan 2024 12:19:41 +1100, "Rod Speed"
<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

>Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote
>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote
>
>>>>> It didn't have a broken key, just one that needed
>>>>> to have the keytop clicked back into place.
>
>>>> Well, let's wait. I'm still suspicious.
>
>>> Plenty of keyboards do have removeable and replaceable keytops.
>
>> They do, but getting one with a greater that 55g forceand with a large
>> actuation point is elusive.
>
>What's "a large actuation point" ?

The trigger point. The hair-trigger keys is my problem.
>
>You can still get copys of the original IBM keyboard but they aint cheap.

I have one somewhere, brand new. Is this one any better?

Re: Returning goods?

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From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: aus.legal
Subject: Re: Returning goods?
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2024 13:38:38 +1100
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 by: Rod Speed - Tue, 2 Jan 2024 02:38 UTC

Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote

>>>>>> It didn't have a broken key, just one that needed
>>>>>> to have the keytop clicked back into place.

>>>>> Well, let's wait. I'm still suspicious.

>>>> Plenty of keyboards do have removeable and replaceable keytops.

>>> They do, but getting one with a greater that 55g force
>>> and with a large actuation point is elusive.

>> What's "a large actuation point" ?

> The trigger point. The hair-trigger keys is my problem.

The Logitech K800 doesnt have hair trigger keys.

It has another problem, you can pop off a keytop if you
let your nails get too long because you are lazy and its
not possible to get the keytop to snap back on again.

>> You can still get copys of the original IBM keyboard but they aint
>> cheap.

> I have one somewhere, brand new. Is this one any better?

Doesnt have a greater that 55g force and hair trigger keys.


aus+uk / aus.legal / Re: Returning goods?

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