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aus+uk / uk.comp.sys.mac / Re: MBP Monterey

SubjectAuthor
* MBP MontereyJeff Gaines
+- MBP MontereyDavid Brooks
+* MBP MontereyChris Ridd
|`* MBP MontereyAlan B
| `* MBP MontereyAlan B
|  `* MBP MontereyChris Ridd
|   `- MBP MontereyTheo
`* MBP MontereyJeff Gaines
 `* MBP MontereyJeff Gaines
  `* MBP MontereyTheo
   `* MBP MontereyJeff Gaines
    `- MBP MontereyDavid Brooks

1
MBP Monterey

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From: jgaines_...@yahoo.co.uk (Jeff Gaines)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.sys.mac
Subject: MBP Monterey
Date: 16 Apr 2022 21:42:05 GMT
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 by: Jeff Gaines - Sat, 16 Apr 2022 21:42 UTC

I dusted off my MacBook Pro A1502 today, it has Big Sur on it but offered
to upgrade to Monterey.

It tried three times so far, downloading the upgrade each time :-( but
says "a required firmware update wasn't installed" each time.

Any suggestions as to what I can check/investigate to see what it needs
please?

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
George Washington was a British subject until well after his 40th birthday.
(Margaret Thatcher, speech at the White House 17 December 1979)

Re: MBP Monterey

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 by: David Brooks - Sat, 16 Apr 2022 23:10 UTC

On 16/04/2022 22:42, Jeff Gaines wrote:
> "a required firmware update wasn't installed" each time.

Try reading here, Jeff.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MacOS/comments/s25a17/a_required_firmware_update_could_not_be_installed/

HTH

--
David

Re: MBP Monterey

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From: chrisr...@mac.com (Chris Ridd)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.sys.mac
Subject: Re: MBP Monterey
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2022 05:42:34 +0100
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 by: Chris Ridd - Sun, 17 Apr 2022 04:42 UTC

On 16/04/2022 22:42, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>
> I dusted off my  MacBook Pro A1502 today, it has Big Sur on it but
> offered to upgrade to Monterey.
>
> It tried three times so far, downloading the upgrade each time :-( but
> says "a required firmware update wasn't installed" each time.
>
> Any suggestions as to what I can check/investigate to see what it needs
> please?

It should be part of the Monterey upgrade itself.

Does downloading the installer from the app store give any different
results?

--
Chris

Re: MBP Monterey

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From: alanrich...@nospamgmail.com.here (Alan B)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.sys.mac
Subject: Re: MBP Monterey
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2022 05:26:19 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Alan B - Sun, 17 Apr 2022 05:26 UTC

Chris Ridd <chrisridd@mac.com> wrote:
> On 16/04/2022 22:42, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>>
>> I dusted off my  MacBook Pro A1502 today, it has Big Sur on it but
>> offered to upgrade to Monterey.
>>
>> It tried three times so far, downloading the upgrade each time :-( but
>> says "a required firmware update wasn't installed" each time.
>>
>> Any suggestions as to what I can check/investigate to see what it needs
>> please?
>
> It should be part of the Monterey upgrade itself.
>
> Does downloading the installer from the app store give any different
> results?

Hopefully Jeff has a backup of his current system as I wonder if a fresh
install might be needed. This should include any necessary f/w updates.
Create a standalone installer on a USB pen drive from the Monterey
installer downloaded from the App Store, boot up from this drive and erase
the internal drive prior to installation. Hopefully he can then use
migration assistance or say a CCC backup to get his apps and data back..

--
Cheers, Alan

Re: MBP Monterey

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From: alanrich...@nospamgmail.com.here (Alan B)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.sys.mac
Subject: Re: MBP Monterey
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2022 06:19:09 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Alan B - Sun, 17 Apr 2022 06:19 UTC

Alan B <alanrichardbarker@nospamgmail.com.here> wrote:
> Chris Ridd <chrisridd@mac.com> wrote:
>> On 16/04/2022 22:42, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>>>
>>> I dusted off my  MacBook Pro A1502 today, it has Big Sur on it but
>>> offered to upgrade to Monterey.
>>>
>>> It tried three times so far, downloading the upgrade each time :-( but
>>> says "a required firmware update wasn't installed" each time.
>>>
>>> Any suggestions as to what I can check/investigate to see what it needs
>>> please?
>>
>> It should be part of the Monterey upgrade itself.
>>
>> Does downloading the installer from the app store give any different
>> results?
>
> Hopefully Jeff has a backup of his current system as I wonder if a fresh
> install might be needed. This should include any necessary f/w updates.
> Create a standalone installer on a USB pen drive from the Monterey
> installer downloaded from the App Store, boot up from this drive and erase
> the internal drive prior to installation. Hopefully he can then use
> migration assistance or say a CCC backup to get his apps and data back..
>

Another thought - has the internal drive been replaced with a non Apple
sourced device? If so Jeff may need to reinstall the original to allow the
f/w update to proceed. There’s a topic about such a scenario on Apple
discussions.

<https://discussions.apple.com/thread/253826359>

--
Cheers, Alan

Re: MBP Monterey

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From: chrisr...@mac.com (Chris Ridd)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.sys.mac
Subject: Re: MBP Monterey
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2022 09:51:08 +0100
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 by: Chris Ridd - Sun, 17 Apr 2022 08:51 UTC

On 17/04/2022 07:19, Alan B wrote:
> Alan B <alanrichardbarker@nospamgmail.com.here> wrote:
>> Chris Ridd <chrisridd@mac.com> wrote:
>>> On 16/04/2022 22:42, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I dusted off my  MacBook Pro A1502 today, it has Big Sur on it but
>>>> offered to upgrade to Monterey.
>>>>
>>>> It tried three times so far, downloading the upgrade each time :-( but
>>>> says "a required firmware update wasn't installed" each time.
>>>>
>>>> Any suggestions as to what I can check/investigate to see what it needs
>>>> please?
>>>
>>> It should be part of the Monterey upgrade itself.
>>>
>>> Does downloading the installer from the app store give any different
>>> results?
>>
>> Hopefully Jeff has a backup of his current system as I wonder if a fresh
>> install might be needed. This should include any necessary f/w updates.
>> Create a standalone installer on a USB pen drive from the Monterey
>> installer downloaded from the App Store, boot up from this drive and erase
>> the internal drive prior to installation. Hopefully he can then use
>> migration assistance or say a CCC backup to get his apps and data back..
>>
>
> Another thought - has the internal drive been replaced with a non Apple
> sourced device? If so Jeff may need to reinstall the original to allow the
> f/w update to proceed. There’s a topic about such a scenario on Apple
> discussions.
>
> <https://discussions.apple.com/thread/253826359>

Good point. I'd assumed the firmware in question was what runs on the
T1/T2, ie BridgeOS.

--
Chris

Re: MBP Monterey

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Newsgroups: uk.comp.sys.mac
Subject: Re: MBP Monterey
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 by: Theo - Sun, 17 Apr 2022 10:43 UTC

Chris Ridd <chrisridd@mac.com> wrote:
> Good point. I'd assumed the firmware in question was what runs on the
> T1/T2, ie BridgeOS.

The 2015 MBP doesn't have a T1/T2 chip, but there is an issue with upgrading
the EFI boot firmware if you have an aftermarket SSD. Some older firmware
wouldn't run NVMe properly (powersaving issues), and I can understand Apple
being reticent about upgrading the firmware on a Mac with a foreign SSD
because it's just possible the new firmware won't work with it, bricking the
machine.

I think they sorted out the NVMe issue so it's safe to use an aftermarket
SSD, but they still won't upgrade the firmware without the original Apple
drive. I don't think that was previously a blocker to updates (it would
just silenty not upgrade the EFI firmware) but maybe it is now. It would
make sense, given the EFI is important for security.

Theo

Re: MBP Monterey

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From: jgaines_...@yahoo.co.uk (Jeff Gaines)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.sys.mac
Subject: Re: MBP Monterey
Date: 17 Apr 2022 13:21:04 GMT
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 by: Jeff Gaines - Sun, 17 Apr 2022 13:21 UTC

On 16/04/2022 in message <xn0ngp5q94i79nu00b@news.individual.net> Jeff
Gaines wrote:

>Any suggestions as to what I can check/investigate to see what it needs
>please?

Many thanks for all the replies :-)

The MBP runs Big Sur quite happily, it seems that didn't need a "firmware"
update but I need to get hold of the original "SSD" to upgrade, I'll think
it through.

Puzzled a bit that "firmware" sits in a file somewhere, I thought it was
intended to be burn on to NVRAM?

Also still confused at NVMe storage devices being called SSDs, must cause
an awful lot of confusion when people try to upgrade.

Thanks again!

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
There is absolutely no substitute for a genuine lack of preparation

Re: MBP Monterey

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From: jgaines_...@yahoo.co.uk (Jeff Gaines)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.sys.mac
Subject: Re: MBP Monterey
Date: 21 Apr 2022 14:40:14 GMT
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 by: Jeff Gaines - Thu, 21 Apr 2022 14:40 UTC

On 17/04/2022 in message <xn0ngq74w5fqt2r00c@news.individual.net> Jeff
Gaines wrote:

>The MBP runs Big Sur quite happily, it seems that didn't need a "firmware"
>update but I need to get hold of the original "SSD" to upgrade, I'll think
>it through.

Update

Step 1 complete, original Mac SSD purchased on eBay for about £20 and now
fitted.

There is no way in the wold the screws are T5 as suggested in a YouTube
video, my neat little case of bits to fit anything yielded a result in
slot 4 of row 8, it's as thin as a pin!

The SSD fitted to the MBP was a Crucial M2 fitted on an adaptor.

Now downloading Monterey to make a bootable Thumbdrive and will clean
install Monterey to see if it will install the "firmware". Still be
interested to know if it really is firmware or actually a driver?

Will update with progress.

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
The first five days after the weekend are the hardest.

Re: MBP Monterey

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From: theom+n...@chiark.greenend.org.uk (Theo)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.sys.mac
Subject: Re: MBP Monterey
Date: 21 Apr 2022 21:18:05 +0100 (BST)
Organization: University of Cambridge, England
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 by: Theo - Thu, 21 Apr 2022 20:18 UTC

Jeff Gaines <jgaines_newsid@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> Step 1 complete, original Mac SSD purchased on eBay for about £20 and now
> fitted.
>
> There is no way in the wold the screws are T5 as suggested in a YouTube
> video, my neat little case of bits to fit anything yielded a result in
> slot 4 of row 8, it's as thin as a pin!

A Torx T5 worked for me.

> Now downloading Monterey to make a bootable Thumbdrive and will clean
> install Monterey to see if it will install the "firmware". Still be
> interested to know if it really is firmware or actually a driver?

It's the EFI boot firmware, effectively it's like Apple's 'BIOS'. Apple
doesn't want to upgrade the 'BIOS' with a foreign SSD present because
there's a risk the machine won't be bootable afterwards.

The EFI firmware contains storage drivers that allow the machine to load the
OS, so in a sense it is both. On older OSes there was no support for NVMe
as Apple shipped SSDs that appeared to be a PCIe-connected SATA drive but,
with the rise of Thunderbolt NVMe and later the Mac Pro, they eventually
caved and added NVMe support.

For a while there were issues with power saving which would cause
sleep/hibernate failures, because Apple's drives didn't implement the whole
PCIe power control standards so their drivers didn't use them, but since Big
Sur supposedly those have all been fixed, even in 2013-2015 EFI firmware.

(I have a widget which allows you to replace the EFI flash chip with one
containing patched firmware, to get NVMe working properly on my 2013. I
never got around to fitting it before it became moot by them fixing the
issue)

Theo

Re: MBP Monterey

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From: jgaines_...@yahoo.co.uk (Jeff Gaines)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.sys.mac
Subject: Re: MBP Monterey
Date: 21 Apr 2022 21:41:13 GMT
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 by: Jeff Gaines - Thu, 21 Apr 2022 21:41 UTC

On 21/04/2022 in message <PJg*-7gMy@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk> Theo wrote:

>>Now downloading Monterey to make a bootable Thumbdrive and will clean
>>install Monterey to see if it will install the "firmware". Still be
>>interested to know if it really is firmware or actually a driver?
>
>It's the EFI boot firmware, effectively it's like Apple's 'BIOS'. Apple
>doesn't want to upgrade the 'BIOS' with a foreign SSD present because
>there's a risk the machine won't be bootable afterwards.
>
>The EFI firmware contains storage drivers that allow the machine to load
>the
>OS, so in a sense it is both. On older OSes there was no support for NVMe
>as Apple shipped SSDs that appeared to be a PCIe-connected SATA drive but,
>with the rise of Thunderbolt NVMe and later the Mac Pro, they eventually
>caved and added NVMe support.

Many thanks Theo :-)

For anybody who finds this in future the whole process worked as set out n
the link David Brooks provided (many thanks David):

https://www.reddit.com/r/MacOS/comments/s25a17/a_required_firmware_update_could_not_be_installed/

I did a fresh install of Monterey to an original Apple SSD (128 GB, £20
used on eBay) which did the magic then swapped the Crucial one back in and
upgraded to Monterey no problems.

I'll put the original somewhere safe in case I need it again....

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
The world will not be destroyed by those who do evil but by those who
watch them without doing anything. (Albert Einstein)

Re: MBP Monterey

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Subject: Re: MBP Monterey
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From: DGB...@nomail.afraid.org (David Brooks)
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Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2022 23:53:47 +0100
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 by: David Brooks - Thu, 21 Apr 2022 22:53 UTC

On 21/04/2022 22:41, Jeff Gaines wrote:
> On 21/04/2022 in message <PJg*-7gMy@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk> Theo
> wrote:
>
>>> Now downloading Monterey to make a bootable Thumbdrive and will clean
>>> install Monterey to see if it will install the "firmware". Still be
>>> interested to know if it really is firmware or actually a driver?
>>
>> It's the EFI boot firmware, effectively it's like Apple's 'BIOS'.  Apple
>> doesn't want to upgrade the 'BIOS' with a foreign SSD present because
>> there's a risk the machine won't be bootable afterwards.
>>
>> The EFI firmware contains storage drivers that allow the machine to
>> load the
>> OS, so in a sense it is both.  On older OSes there was no support for
>> NVMe
>> as Apple shipped SSDs that appeared to be a PCIe-connected SATA drive
>> but,
>> with the rise of Thunderbolt NVMe and later the Mac Pro, they eventually
>> caved and added NVMe support.
>
> Many thanks Theo :-)
>
> For anybody who finds this in future the whole process worked as set out
> in the link David Brooks provided (many thanks David):

You are most welcome, Jeff. :-D

> https://www.reddit.com/r/MacOS/comments/s25a17/a_required_firmware_update_could_not_be_installed/

> I did a fresh install of Monterey to an original Apple SSD (128 GB, £20
> used on eBay) which did the magic then swapped the Crucial one back in
> and upgraded to Monterey no problems.
>
> I'll put the original somewhere safe in case I need it again....

Congratulations on a job well done! 🥳

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