I have had an unbelievably frustrating day with 4 x Windows PIMs which I
won't go in to but I feel at the age of 75 perhaps the time is ripe to
move to Linux.

It seems Ubuntu is the distribution of the moment, I will start with an i5
laptop and it can have the whole machine to itself, is Ubuntu a good choice?

Uses will be:

Usenet, I know it's dying out but I like it.
Office apps - I use Word and Excel but Libre Office has a good reputation.
Facebook - any browser will do for that.
An Outlook like PIM, this is what has led to my frustration today but
keeping email, contacts and calendar together seems sensible. I'd like to
be free to choose layout, columns etc. without some programmer deciding
what I can see where. I'm also not keen on pop-ups asking me if I want to
connect a heap of social media apps to it. I am a miserable unsociable sod
so nobody talks to me anyway.
Programming - I use Visual Studio and like it but I imagine there are
hundreds of options for Linux.

Not going to get involved in an advocacy war, would just appreciate advice
on whether to follow the herd to Ubuntu or if there's something else worth
looking at.

Many thanks.

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
Those are my principles – and if you don’t like them, well, I have others.
(Groucho Marx)

On 11/17/2022 07:49 AM, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>
> I have had an unbelievably frustrating day with 4 x Windows PIMs which I
> won't go in to but I feel at the age of 75 perhaps the time is ripe to
> move to Linux.
>
> It seems Ubuntu is the distribution of the moment, I will start with an
> i5 laptop and it can have the whole machine to itself, is Ubuntu a good
> choice?
>
> Uses will be:
>
> Usenet, I know it's dying out but I like it.
> Office apps - I use Word and Excel but Libre Office has a good reputation.
> Facebook - any browser will do for that.
> An Outlook like PIM, this is what has led to my frustration today but
> keeping email, contacts and calendar together seems sensible. I'd like
> to be free to choose layout, columns etc. without some programmer
> deciding what I can see where. I'm also not keen on pop-ups asking me if
> I want to connect a heap of social media apps to it. I am a miserable
> unsociable sod so nobody talks to me anyway.
> Programming - I use Visual Studio and like it but I imagine there are
> hundreds of options for Linux.
>
> Not going to get involved in an advocacy war, would just appreciate
> advice on whether to follow the herd to Ubuntu or if there's something
> else worth looking at.
>
> Many thanks.
>

I'm 79 and abandoned WinXP a decade ago when they wanted everything done
*THEIR* way.

I initially was referred to Ubuntu but I didn't like some parameter it
chose as default and I didn't discover how to change it. I read that
Ubuntu's roots were in Debian. I tried Debian and found it trivial {as
a newbie} to tweak just about everything to *MY* way.

I would suggest trying a live edition of both Ubuntu and Debian.
Ubuntu appears to be more bleeding edge - I don't see that as advantage.
YMMV ;/

On 17/11/2022 in message <9_idndZeM94n3ev-nZ2dnZfqn_idnZ2d@supernews.com>
Richard Owlett wrote:

>On 11/17/2022 07:49 AM, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>>
>>I have had an unbelievably frustrating day with 4 x Windows PIMs which I
>>won't go in to but I feel at the age of 75 perhaps the time is ripe to
>>move to Linux.
>>
>>It seems Ubuntu is the distribution of the moment, I will start with an
>>i5 laptop and it can have the whole machine to itself, is Ubuntu a good
>>choice?
>>
>>Uses will be:
>>
>>Usenet, I know it's dying out but I like it.
>>Office apps - I use Word and Excel but Libre Office has a good reputation.
>>Facebook - any browser will do for that.
>>An Outlook like PIM, this is what has led to my frustration today but
>>keeping email, contacts and calendar together seems sensible. I'd like to
>>be free to choose layout, columns etc. without some programmer deciding
>>what I can see where. I'm also not keen on pop-ups asking me if I want to
>>connect a heap of social media apps to it. I am a miserable unsociable
>>sod so nobody talks to me anyway.
>>Programming - I use Visual Studio and like it but I imagine there are
>>hundreds of options for Linux.
>>
>>Not going to get involved in an advocacy war, would just appreciate
>>advice on whether to follow the herd to Ubuntu or if there's something
>>else worth looking at.
>>
>>Many thanks.
>>
>
>I'm 79 and abandoned WinXP a decade ago when they wanted everything done
>THEIR way.
>
>I initially was referred to Ubuntu but I didn't like some parameter it
>chose as default and I didn't discover how to change it. I read that
>Ubuntu's roots were in Debian. I tried Debian and found it trivial {as a
>newbie} to tweak just about everything to MY way.
>
>I would suggest trying a live edition of both Ubuntu and Debian.
>Ubuntu appears to be more bleeding edge - I don't see that as advantage.
>YMMV ;/

Oh good, I won't be the oldest Linux user in the world :-)

I had forgotten Debian, it does things slightly differently I think but
the same apps are available.

OK, I'll try and get Debian on and see if I can get back in here, thank
you!!!

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
The world will not be destroyed by those who do evil but by those who
watch them without doing anything. (Albert Einstein)

On 17.11.2022 at 13:49, Jeff Gaines scribbled:

> I have had an unbelievably frustrating day with 4 x Windows PIMs
> which I won't go in to but I feel at the age of 75 perhaps the time
> is ripe to move to Linux.
>
> It seems Ubuntu is the distribution of the moment, I will start with
> an i5 laptop and it can have the whole machine to itself, is Ubuntu a
> good choice?

On the one hand, Ubuntu is fairly reliable, but on the other hand, I
personally also feel that it's overhyped, because there are better
alternatives out there.

One of my major objections of late is the fact that Ubuntu has now
moved to using Snap packages by default for just about everything.
Snap is a containerized application format, and Snaps make sense for
people seeking to create cross-distribution packages, but it's
ridiculous and wasteful as a distribution's native package format.

> Uses will be:
>
> Usenet, I know it's dying out but I like it.
> Office apps - I use Word and Excel but Libre Office has a good
> reputation.

LibreOffice is pretty solid.

> Facebook - any browser will do for that.
> An Outlook like PIM, this is what has led to my frustration today but
> keeping email, contacts and calendar together seems sensible. I'd
> like to be free to choose layout, columns etc. without some
> programmer deciding what I can see where.

Well, I personally have no experience with it, but Evolution is
supposed to look and feel like Outlook, and it's the standard PIM in the
GNOME and XFCE desktop environments — presumably also in Cinnamon and
MATE.

> Programming - I use Visual Studio and like it but I imagine there are
> hundreds of options for Linux.

Indeed, there are, including VScode, which is supposed to be similar to
Visual Studio. (Again, I have no experience here, because I don't do
Windows.)
> Not going to get involved in an advocacy war, would just appreciate
> advice on whether to follow the herd to Ubuntu or if there's
> something else worth looking at.

Many feel that Mint would be a better distribution than Ubuntu. It
shares the same underpinnings, but it's a little saner, in that Snaps
and FlatPaks are optional there. Mint has also developed its own
graphical user interface, called Cinnamon, which is supposed to look
and feel somewhat like Windows 7, but other options are also available.

Personally, I've been running Manjaro on my system for the last
three-and-a-half years, and I'm also a moderator at the Manjaro forum,
but I wouldn't recommend Manjaro for an absolute newbie, because it's a
pretty technical distribution — it's based upon Arch, but it's a little
user-friendlier.

Lots of people also like MX Linux, which is supposedly also based upon
Ubuntu, just like Mint. Again, I have no experience with it, so I can
neither confirm nor deny its supposed qualities.

The good thing about GNU/Linux has for many years already been that
most distributions allow you to test-drive the distro via live images —
CD/DVD or USB — without having to install anything. The system simply
runs off of the optical drive or USB stick.

It won't have the same performance as an actually installed system, of
course, but it should be good enough to give you an idea on what you
can do with it, and whether you like it or not. So my advice would be
to download and test a few.

One thing I will however say, because it's not being said enough.
GNU/Linux is NOT Microsoft Windows, so don't expect it to BEHAVE like
Windows. GNU/Linux is a multiuser UNIX-style operating system, and its
filesystem hierarchy is entirely different, as are its security
subsystems and its file ownership and permissions system.

There's a learning curve. But most of it will be for you to unlearn
your Windows habits. In and of itself, GNU/Linux isn't all that
difficult to learn, because everything makes sense, and everything's
very logical.

--
With respect,
= Aragorn

On 17 Nov 2022 13:49:13 GMT, Jeff Gaines wrote:

> It seems Ubuntu is the distribution of the moment, I will start with an
> i5 laptop and it can have the whole machine to itself, is Ubuntu a good
> choice?
>
> Uses will be:
>
> Usenet, I know it's dying out but I like it.
> Office apps - I use Word and Excel but Libre Office has a good
> reputation.
>
I've been using Libre Office for at over a decade and haven't had problems
with it. IME anyway, is does a good job of handling M$ file formats and
PDF files.

> An Outlook like PIM, this is what has led to my frustration today but
> keeping email, contacts and calendar together seems sensible.
>
I've been using Evolution as my mail reader for a long time now: its a
good mail reader and provides calendar, contact management and reminder
lists. Its configurable enough to suit me, but of course YMMV.

> I use Visual Studio and like it but I imagine there are
> hundreds of options for Linux.
>
I use traditional editors for all my programming - mainly microemacs, vi
and gedit these days (I write mostly C and Java) rather than the more
complex IDEs many people use, mainly because I find their screens too
cluttered and prefer to keep my hands on the keyboard rather than
constantly reaching for the mouse.
> Not going to get involved in an advocacy war, would just appreciate
> advice on whether to follow the herd to Ubuntu or if there's something
> else worth looking at.
>
Personally, I dislike the default Ubuntu desktop as much as I dislike
Gnome desktops (and anything else that apes recent M$ desktops). If I was
running a Debian derivative, I'd probably be using Cinnamon, which is
derived from Ubuntu, but I've been on RedHat Linux since 1999 and have
standardised on RedHat's XFCE Fedora version because it is a straight-
forward no-frills desktop. This suits me because I prefer the command line
for serious work rather then clicking on GUI tools.

Also, having used both (I have an RaspberryPi or two which run a Debian
Linux derivative by default), I much prefer RedHat's 'dnf' package update
tool to Debian's 'apt' toolset.

--

Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

On 17.11.2022 at 14:40, Martin Gregorie scribbled:

> Personally, I dislike the default Ubuntu desktop as much as I dislike
> Gnome desktops (and anything else that apes recent M$ desktops).

Ubuntu is using GNOME these days. The Unity desktop was dropped
several years ago.

Also, do note that GNOME isn't trying to mimic Microsoft Windows.
Instead, it's inspired by macOS, but in an ugly and perverse kind of
way. :p

--
With respect,
= Aragorn =

On 17/11/2022 13:49, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>
> It seems Ubuntu is the distribution of the moment, I will start with an
> i5 laptop and it can have the whole machine to itself, is Ubuntu a good
> choice?

I've put a lot of effort into Ubuntu in recent years, include a script
that takes a new installation and customises it, but now I too, on a
'when I get around to it' basis, am looking for an alternative distro,
because Ubuntu seems to be now so bloated that it is geologically slow
on my spare PCs, which are Dell Precision M6300s - most especially
Firefox, which is much slower than on W7, would you believe?

Also as others have said, Ubuntu has gone down the Snap route, so that,
for example, I can't easily get VLC to install because I've removed all
the Snap crap, and I couldn't get it to compile either. I'm left with a
non-snap version that works but won't play BBC iPlayer *.mp4 files, and
none of all the usual online fixes seemed able make that happen.

So my advice would be not Ubuntu, and thanks for asking this question, I
shall read the replies with interest.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

On 17/11/2022 13:49, Jeff Gaines wrote:

> Not going to get involved in an advocacy war, would just appreciate
> advice on whether to follow the herd to Ubuntu or if there's something
> else worth looking at.

Many thanks for all the replies, you must all be my age and so retired :-)

I have put Ubuntu on a Lenovo Thinkpad E490 and all seems well. I did
try Pan to reply but it crashed 3 times so I thought I'll go with the
majority and try Thunderbird. I managed to set it up with NIN but no
bells/whistles yet like a sig (I'll do it manually) or speill chucker.
It could also do with a margin on the left as it hides half a character
on left and right.
Like Java Jive my main laptop is a Dell Precision but an M6800 built
like a tank with a monster screen. I need to find out how to turn the
touchpad off on this it's all over the place.
OK, I'm here, I'll experiment - I need a bigger font in Thunderbird so
I'll start there.
Thanks again!

--
Jeff Gaines

Am 17.11.2022 um 13:49:13 Uhr schrieb Jeff Gaines:

> It seems Ubuntu is the distribution of the moment, I will start with
> an i5 laptop and it can have the whole machine to itself, is Ubuntu a
> good choice?

For beginners it is a good choice.

> Usenet, I know it's dying out but I like it.

Claws Mail or Thunderbird.

> Office apps - I use Word and Excel but Libre Office has a good
> reputation.

Use LO OnlyOffice.

> Facebook - any browser will do for that.

True.

> An Outlook like PIM, this is what has led to my frustration today but
> keeping email, contacts and calendar together seems sensible. I'd
> like to be free to choose layout, columns etc. without some
> programmer deciding what I can see where. I'm also not keen on
> pop-ups asking me if I want to connect a heap of social media apps to
> it. I am a miserable unsociable sod so nobody talks to me anyway.

Thunderbird.

> Programming - I use Visual Studio and like it but I imagine there are
> hundreds of options for Linux.

For what languages?
VS doesn't work on Linux, but there are compilers and IDEs.

> Not going to get involved in an advocacy war, would just appreciate
> advice on whether to follow the herd to Ubuntu or if there's
> something else worth looking at.

I prefer Debian, but you need more knowledge for that.

Am 17.11.2022 um 14:22:52 Uhr schrieb Jeff Gaines:

> Oh good, I won't be the oldest Linux user in the world :-)

There are even older people (more than 90) who use Linux.

Jeff Gaines <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:
>
> I have had an unbelievably frustrating day with 4 x Windows PIMs which I
> won't go in to but I feel at the age of 75 perhaps the time is ripe to
> move to Linux.
>
I've just turned 76 and I've been using Linux for a long time, since
before 2000 certainly. I was a software engineer on Unix systems
until I retired though so Linux was an obvious direction to go for my
home systems.

> It seems Ubuntu is the distribution of the moment, I will start with an i5
> laptop and it can have the whole machine to itself, is Ubuntu a good choice?
>
It's what I have used for quite a few years now. I actually use
xubuntu which has less 'eye candy' and also imposes less on the user
IMHO. I'm a command line freak so a lot of my choices below are
command line programs, I've listed GUI alternatives when I know about
them.

> Uses will be:
>
> Usenet, I know it's dying out but I like it.

Me too, I use tin (command line newsreader) but Thunderbird is a very
capable GUI one and maybe it's what you've used on windows.

> Office apps - I use Word and Excel but Libre Office has a good reputation.

Not my scene very often but Libre Office does what I need when I need
it.

> Facebook - any browser will do for that.

Yes.

> An Outlook like PIM, this is what has led to my frustration today but
> keeping email, contacts and calendar together seems sensible. I'd like to
> be free to choose layout, columns etc. without some programmer deciding
> what I can see where. I'm also not keen on pop-ups asking me if I want to
> connect a heap of social media apps to it. I am a miserable unsociable sod
> so nobody talks to me anyway.

Ah. I decided long ago that separate, specialist applications for
these actually work better than huge portmanteau behemoths like
Outlook (Ubuntu has Evolution). So I run mutt for mail (command
line), Gnome's calendar program for calendar and I've written my own
(GUI suprisingly) address book program that mutt and others can use.

> Programming - I use Visual Studio and like it but I imagine there are
> hundreds of options for Linux.
>
What language? I tend to just use separate command line windows with
editor in one, make/compile in another and test in a third. The one
thing that I haven't found a good replacement for yet is Micirosoft
Access.

> Not going to get involved in an advocacy war, would just appreciate advice
> on whether to follow the herd to Ubuntu or if there's something else worth
> looking at.
>
Keep asking and looking.

--
Chris Green
·

On Thu, 17 Nov 2022 15:37:25 +0000, Jeff Gaines wrote:

> On 17/11/2022 13:49, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>
>
>> Not going to get involved in an advocacy war, would just appreciate
>> advice on whether to follow the herd to Ubuntu or if there's something
>> else worth looking at.
>
> Many thanks for all the replies, you must all be my age and so retired
> :-)
>
> I have put Ubuntu on a Lenovo Thinkpad E490 and all seems well. I did
> try Pan to reply but it crashed 3 times
>
Pan 0.149 has been woefully buggy for quite some time (last update was
last Feb 2022) despite several bug reports, which is a pity as it used to
be an excellent NNTP reader.

The problem seems to be restricted to its shutdown code: if I leave it up
until I log out/shutdown it doesn't crash or cause trouble, but exiting
from it causes a crash around 35% of the time. What's worse is that when
it crashes, it often trashes the OS as well: on this Thinkpad T440 it most
often shows up as a failure of Linux to suspend when the lid is shut: when
the OD suspends the red LED on the lit should flash slowly, but after a
Pan crash the LED stays on and, if the room is quiet, I don't hear the HDD
park its head and spin down.

--

Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

On Thu, 17 Nov 2022 16:11:59 +0000, Chris Green wrote:

> The one thing that I haven't found a good replacement for yet is
> Microsoft Access.
>
Try PostgreSQL. Its about the best SQL database I've used and has minimal
support requirements (apart from taking backups), and professionally I've
used Sybase (M$ SQLServer was a clone of Sybase 10), Oracle, and DEC's VAX
database as well as Access.

--

Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

Aragorn <telcontar@duck.com> wrote:
> On 17.11.2022 at 14:40, Martin Gregorie scribbled:
>
> > Personally, I dislike the default Ubuntu desktop as much as I dislike
> > Gnome desktops (and anything else that apes recent M$ desktops).
>
> Ubuntu is using GNOME these days. The Unity desktop was dropped
> several years ago.

True. Ubuntu comes in versions for all the various desktop environments
(Kubuntu = KDE, Xubuntu = XFCE, Lubuntu = LXDE, etc). The only difference
between those is the set of packages installed by default - you can easily
convert from one to another (install the kubuntu-desktop package and it
pulls in all the KDE stuff).

The useful thing about Ubuntu is it's easy to search for help on how to do
things, which might not be the case for more obscure distros.

Theo

Jeff Gaines <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:
>
> I have had an unbelievably frustrating day with 4 x Windows PIMs which I
> won't go in to but I feel at the age of 75 perhaps the time is ripe to
> move to Linux.

For my FIL I set up Xubuntu as it's a more straightforward desktop
experience. I don't like the default ubuntu.

The MATE interface is also supposed to be good.

> It seems Ubuntu is the distribution of the moment, I will start with an i5
> laptop and it can have the whole machine to itself, is Ubuntu a good choice?

Go for one of the LTS releases which are super stable and supported for 5
years.

Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> wrote:
> Am 17.11.2022 um 13:49:13 Uhr schrieb Jeff Gaines:
>
>> Programming - I use Visual Studio and like it but I imagine there are
>> hundreds of options for Linux.
>
> For what languages?
> VS doesn't work on Linux, but there are compilers and IDEs.

VS Code does and is open source. It's a great IDE IMO.

Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Nov 2022 16:11:59 +0000, Chris Green wrote:
>
> > The one thing that I haven't found a good replacement for yet is
> > Microsoft Access.
> >
> Try PostgreSQL. Its about the best SQL database I've used and has minimal
> support requirements (apart from taking backups), and professionally I've
> used Sybase (M$ SQLServer was a clone of Sybase 10), Oracle, and DEC's VAX
> database as well as Access.
>
It's not the underlying database is the issue it's the front-end for
building applications. Access is great for building a desktop program
that uses the underlying database.

There are lots of excellent databases for Linux but no particularly
good application builder.

--
Chris Green
·

On 17/11/2022 in message <xn0npgtgmavm15w00o@news.individual.net> Jeff
Gaines wrote:

>Not going to get involved in an advocacy war, would just appreciate advice
>on whether to follow the herd to Ubuntu or if there's something else worth
>looking at.

Another update, back in Windows as my brain hurts. :-)

I have just installed Debian on a Lenovo S440 three times. It doesn't seem
to find the WiFi hardware and it really doesn't want to install without a
network. Ii did manage to install it in the end but it just booted into a
command prompt which left me cold! The second and third attempts were to
try and get a graphical interface but no go.

I think the WiFi problem is that there is no free driver, I might be able
to get round it by running a cable to the network but I wonder if it might
continue to give problems.

I don't know about the graphical interface, perhaps a consequence of the
lack of a working network?

My inclination at this stage is to stick to Ubuntu because it goes on
easily and it works, no more until tomorrow though!

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
Greater love hath no man than this, that he lay down his friends for his
life.
(Jeremy Thorpe, 1962)

On Thu, 17 Nov 2022 19:46:16 +0000, Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> wrote:
> Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> wrote:
>> On Thu, 17 Nov 2022 16:11:59 +0000, Chris Green wrote:
>>
>> > The one thing that I haven't found a good replacement for yet is
>> > Microsoft Access.
>> >
>> Try PostgreSQL. Its about the best SQL database I've used and has minimal
>> support requirements (apart from taking backups), and professionally I've
>> used Sybase (M$ SQLServer was a clone of Sybase 10), Oracle, and DEC's VAX
>> database as well as Access.
>>
> It's not the underlying database is the issue it's the front-end for
> building applications. Access is great for building a desktop program
> that uses the underlying database.
>
> There are lots of excellent databases for Linux but no particularly
> good application builder.

I guess LibreOffice Base or Kexi I guess are the closest alternatives.

But really the Linux way is to actually write a front end in a proper
programming language.

--
Andy Leighton => andyl@azaal.plus.com
"We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"
- Douglas Adams

On Thu, 17 Nov 2022 21:29:35 +0000, Jeff Gaines wrote:

> On 17/11/2022 in message <xn0npgtgmavm15w00o@news.individual.net> Jeff
> Gaines wrote:
>
>>Not going to get involved in an advocacy war, would just appreciate
>>advice on whether to follow the herd to Ubuntu or if there's something
>>else worth looking at.
>
> Another update, back in Windows as my brain hurts. :-)
>
> I have just installed Debian on a Lenovo S440 three times. It doesn't
> seem to find the WiFi hardware and it really doesn't want to install
> without a network. Ii did manage to install it in the end but it just
> booted into a command prompt which left me cold! The second and third
> attempts were to try and get a graphical interface but no go.
>
> I think the WiFi problem is that there is no free driver, I might be
> able to get round it by running a cable to the network but I wonder if
> it might continue to give problems.
>
> I don't know about the graphical interface, perhaps a consequence of the
> lack of a working network?
>
> My inclination at this stage is to stick to Ubuntu because it goes on
> easily and it works, no more until tomorrow though!

I've installed successfully from

https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-
firmware/current/amd64/iso-cd/firmware-11.5.0-amd64-netinst.iso

Well actually from an earlier version 11. The one above is current. It
includes firmware wifi drivers. This is a long standing problem where
the standard debian iso doesn't include any non-free drivers but they are
included in Ubuntu and other distribution derived from debian.

On Thu, 17 Nov 2022 19:46:16 +0000, Chris Green wrote:

> It's not the underlying database is the issue it's the front-end for
> building applications. Access is great for building a desktop program
> that uses the underlying database.
>
I've had no problems doing the same with standard Java classes.

--

Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

Jeff Gaines <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:
> On 17/11/2022 in message <xn0npgtgmavm15w00o@news.individual.net> Jeff
> Gaines wrote:
>
>> Not going to get involved in an advocacy war, would just appreciate advice
>> on whether to follow the herd to Ubuntu or if there's something else worth
>> looking at.
>
> Another update, back in Windows as my brain hurts. :-)
>
> I have just installed Debian on a Lenovo S440 three times. It doesn't seem
> to find the WiFi hardware and it really doesn't want to install without a
> network. Ii did manage to install it in the end but it just booted into a
> command prompt which left me cold! The second and third attempts were to
> try and get a graphical interface but no go.
>
> I think the WiFi problem is that there is no free driver, I might be able
> to get round it by running a cable to the network but I wonder if it might
> continue to give problems.
>
> I don't know about the graphical interface, perhaps a consequence of the
> lack of a working network?
>
> My inclination at this stage is to stick to Ubuntu because it goes on
> easily and it works, no more until tomorrow though!

Honestly, I'm not surprised. I don't understand why people recommended
debian; it was never designed for first timers. Ubuntu is meant to be ready
to use and is built on top of debian.

However, I would recommend you the different variants as well to see what
fits you best: kubuntu, xubuntu, ubuntu MATE.

Andy Leighton <andyl@azaal.plus.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Nov 2022 19:46:16 +0000, Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> wrote:
> > Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> wrote:
> >> On Thu, 17 Nov 2022 16:11:59 +0000, Chris Green wrote:
> >>
> >> > The one thing that I haven't found a good replacement for yet is
> >> > Microsoft Access.
> >> >
> >> Try PostgreSQL. Its about the best SQL database I've used and has minimal
> >> support requirements (apart from taking backups), and professionally I've
> >> used Sybase (M$ SQLServer was a clone of Sybase 10), Oracle, and DEC's VAX
> >> database as well as Access.
> >>
> > It's not the underlying database is the issue it's the front-end for
> > building applications. Access is great for building a desktop program
> > that uses the underlying database.
> >
> > There are lots of excellent databases for Linux but no particularly
> > good application builder.
>
> I guess LibreOffice Base or Kexi I guess are the closest alternatives.
>
They're the nearest but not 'there' yet IMHO.

> But really the Linux way is to actually write a front end in a proper
> programming language.
>
We don't have to write everything else! :-) Linux has really
excellent programs in most other areas which are every bit as good as
the MS Windows ones. We don't have to write our own web browsers or
graphics programs. :-)

--
Chris Green
·

On 17/11/2022 in message <DIydL.2149$dvL.619@fx18.iad> Kit Jackson wrote:

>>I think the WiFi problem is that there is no free driver, I might be
>>able to get round it by running a cable to the network but I wonder if
>>it might continue to give problems.
>>
>>I don't know about the graphical interface, perhaps a consequence of the
>>lack of a working network?
>>
>>My inclination at this stage is to stick to Ubuntu because it goes on
>>easily and it works, no more until tomorrow though!
>
>I've installed successfully from
>
>https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-
>firmware/current/amd64/iso-cd/firmware-11.5.0-amd64-netinst.iso
>
>Well actually from an earlier version 11. The one above is current. It
>includes firmware wifi drivers. This is a long standing problem where
>the standard debian iso doesn't include any non-free drivers but they are
>included in Ubuntu and other distribution derived from debian.

Many thanks Kit :-)

I installed successfully from the link you gave but I had to plug it in to
the network, still couldn't use WiFi. That also enabled it to download the
final 1,396 files it needed to put the graphical interface on.

I will continue to experiment!

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
There are 3 types of people in this world. Those who can count, and those
who can't.

On 18/11/2022 in message <tl7d24$2t4iv$1@dont-email.me> Chris wrote:

>>My inclination at this stage is to stick to Ubuntu because it goes on
>>easily and it works, no more until tomorrow though!
>
>Honestly, I'm not surprised. I don't understand why people recommended
>debian; it was never designed for first timers. Ubuntu is meant to be ready
>to use and is built on top of debian.

I managed in the end but the network connection is critical to getting the
graphical interface - see reply to Kit Jackson. I think there is some
cachet in being able to say "I installed Debian", perhaps not as much as
being able to say "I am an astrophysicist" but close :-)

>However, I would recommend you the different variants as well to see what
>fits you best: kubuntu, xubuntu, ubuntu MATE.

There's loads of them, I wonder about Ubuntu Budgie in homage to Mike
Tindall in the Jungle but I think either Lubuntu or Ubuntu Mate as being
lightweight versions.

Thanks for the input :-)

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
Here we go it's getting close, now it's just who wants it most.