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aus+uk / uk.media.radio.archers / Re: Spoiler 11/05/22

SubjectAuthor
* Spoiler 11/05/22Mike McMillan
+* Spoiler 11/05/22Mike McMillan
|`* Spoiler 11/05/22krw
| +* Spoiler 11/05/22Mike McMillan
| |`- Spoiler 11/05/22krw
| `* Spoiler 11/05/22Vicky
|  `* Spoiler 11/05/22Mike McMillan
|   `* Spoiler 11/05/22krw
|    +- Spoiler 11/05/22Chris J Dixon
|    `* Spoiler 11/05/22Mike McMillan
|     +* Spoiler 11/05/22Vicky
|     |+- Spoiler 11/05/22Mike McMillan
|     |`* Spoiler 11/05/22Philip Hole
|     | +- Spoiler 11/05/22Vicky
|     | `- Spoiler 11/05/22Mike McMillan
|     `* Spoiler 11/05/22Linda Fox
|      +- Spoiler 11/05/22Vicky
|      `* Spoiler 11/05/22Chris
|       `- Spoiler 11/05/22Chris
+* Spoiler 11/05/22Penny
|`* Spoiler 11/05/22BrritSki
| `* Spoiler 11/05/22MelbTony
|  +* Spoiler 11/05/22Mike McMillan
|  |`- Spoiler 11/05/22Clive Arthur
|  +* Spoiler 11/05/22Nick Odell
|  |+- Spoiler 11/05/22Mike McMillan
|  |+- Spoiler 11/05/22Penny
|  |`- Spoiler 11/05/22Chris
|  `* Spoiler 11/05/22Sam Plusnet
|   +* Spoiler 11/05/22Penny
|   |`* Spoiler 11/05/22Vicky
|   | `* Spoiler 11/05/22Mike McMillan
|   |  +- Spoiler 11/05/22Chris J Dixon
|   |  `- Spoiler 11/05/22Chris
|   `- Spoiler 11/05/22Sally Thompson
`* Spoiler 11/05/22J. P. Gilliver (John)
 `* Spoiler 11/05/22Nick Odell
  `* Spoiler 11/05/22John Ashby
   `* Spoiler 11/05/22Mike McMillan
    +- Spoiler 11/05/22Vicky
    +- Spoiler 11/05/22Vicky
    `- Spoiler 11/05/22Nick Odell

Pages:12
Spoiler 11/05/22

<t5gu5o$p87$1@dont-email.me>

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From: toodle.p...@virginmedia.com (Mike McMillan)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Spoiler 11/05/22
Date: Wed, 11 May 2022 18:10:00 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Mike McMillan - Wed, 11 May 2022 18:10 UTC

So if you decide you want to consider a new kitchen design, in less than 24
hours you have a very pushy salesperson in situ to sell you what you
neither want or afford!

--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan

Re: Spoiler 11/05/22

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From: toodle.p...@virginmedia.com (Mike McMillan)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: Spoiler 11/05/22
Date: Wed, 11 May 2022 18:12:38 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Mike McMillan - Wed, 11 May 2022 18:12 UTC

Mike McMillan <toodle.pip1@virginmedia.com> wrote:
> So if you decide you want to consider a new kitchen design, in less than 24
> hours you have a very pushy salesperson in situ to sell you what you
> neither want or afford!
>
>

And I hadn’t realised that the Panto Crew were writing today’s script
either!

--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan

Re: Spoiler 11/05/22

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From: krw...@whitnet.uk (krw)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: Spoiler 11/05/22
Date: Wed, 11 May 2022 20:33:43 +0100
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
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 by: krw - Wed, 11 May 2022 19:33 UTC

On 11.5.22 19:12, Mike McMillan wrote:
> Mike McMillan <toodle.pip1@virginmedia.com> wrote:
>> So if you decide you want to consider a new kitchen design, in less than 24
>> hours you have a very pushy salesperson in situ to sell you what you
>> neither want or afford!
>>
>>
>
> And I hadn’t realised that the Panto Crew were writing today’s script
> either!
>

Oh no they weren't.

--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics

Re: Spoiler 11/05/22

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From: toodle.p...@virginmedia.com (Mike McMillan)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: Spoiler 11/05/22
Date: Wed, 11 May 2022 19:56:31 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Mike McMillan - Wed, 11 May 2022 19:56 UTC

krw <krw@whitnet.uk> wrote:
> On 11.5.22 19:12, Mike McMillan wrote:
>> Mike McMillan <toodle.pip1@virginmedia.com> wrote:
>>> So if you decide you want to consider a new kitchen design, in less than 24
>>> hours you have a very pushy salesperson in situ to sell you what you
>>> neither want or afford!
>>>
>>>
>>
>> And I hadn’t realised that the Panto Crew were writing today’s script
>> either!
>>
>
> Oh no they weren't.
>

It’s behind you!!!

--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan

Re: Spoiler 11/05/22

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From: krw...@whitnet.uk (krw)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: Spoiler 11/05/22
Date: Wed, 11 May 2022 21:06:02 +0100
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 by: krw - Wed, 11 May 2022 20:06 UTC

On 11.5.22 20:56, Mike McMillan wrote:
> krw <krw@whitnet.uk> wrote:
>> On 11.5.22 19:12, Mike McMillan wrote:
>>> Mike McMillan <toodle.pip1@virginmedia.com> wrote:
>>>> So if you decide you want to consider a new kitchen design, in less than 24
>>>> hours you have a very pushy salesperson in situ to sell you what you
>>>> neither want or afford!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> And I hadn’t realised that the Panto Crew were writing today’s script
>>> either!
>>>
>>
>> Oh no they weren't.
>>
>
> It’s behind you!!!
>

Most things are these days. Except for the stomach - that is definitely
sticking out at the front.

--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics

Re: Spoiler 11/05/22

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From: vicky.ay...@gmail.com (Vicky)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: Spoiler 11/05/22
Date: Wed, 11 May 2022 21:51:42 +0100
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 by: Vicky - Wed, 11 May 2022 20:51 UTC

On Wed, 11 May 2022 20:33:43 +0100, krw <krw@whitnet.uk> wrote:

>On 11.5.22 19:12, Mike McMillan wrote:
>> Mike McMillan <toodle.pip1@virginmedia.com> wrote:
>>> So if you decide you want to consider a new kitchen design, in less than 24
>>> hours you have a very pushy salesperson in situ to sell you what you
>>> neither want or afford!
>>>
>>>
>>
>> And I hadn’t realised that the Panto Crew were writing today’s script
>> either!
>>
>
>Oh no they weren't.

How thick is Shula? If she is talking to a parishioner and takes that
long to pick up on hints she will be more useless than I thought she
would be. And the commision is surely only paid on the cost of the
nuggering kitchen bought? So it won't give Jazzer much, just a stay of
execution. And don't they have his address on file? I suppose it will
have been with Jim? Or did he give it as with Tracy?

And Chelsea's action was surely unlikely? And stupid.

Re: Spoiler 11/05/22

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From: spa...@labyrinth.freeuk.com (Penny)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: Spoiler 11/05/22
Date: Wed, 11 May 2022 23:28:33 +0100
Organization: given up on it
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 by: Penny - Wed, 11 May 2022 22:28 UTC

On Wed, 11 May 2022 18:10:00 -0000 (UTC), Mike McMillan
<toodle.pip1@virginmedia.com> scrawled in the dust...

>So if you decide you want to consider a new kitchen design, in less than 24
>hours you have a very pushy salesperson in situ to sell you what you
>neither want or afford!

Many years ago, a friend in the village asked us if his youngest son could
visit us and try to sell us a kitchen. We said we neither needed nor wanted
a new kitchen, he insisted that didn't matter, the son had started this new
job and just needed some bookings to practice his pitch.

I'm not sure he had told his son this was just a practice booking - he
seemed very unhappy when we showed little enthusiasm. Don't know how long
he lasted in that job, nor how he ended up as the successful racehorse
trainer he is today.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959

Re: Spoiler 11/05/22

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From: G6J...@255soft.uk (J. P. Gilliver (John))
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: Spoiler 11/05/22
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 by: J. P. Gilliver (John - Wed, 11 May 2022 23:03 UTC

On Wed, 11 May 2022 at 18:10:00, Mike McMillan
<toodle.pip1@virginmedia.com> wrote (my responses usually FOLLOW):
>So if you decide you want to consider a new kitchen design, in less than 24
>hours you have a very pushy salesperson in situ to sell you what you
>neither want or afford!
>
>
I kept actually turning off the radio, then turning it back on to see if
that bit had finished. I really found it painful to listen to.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

One of my tricks as an armchair futurist is to "predict" things that are
already happening and watch people tell me it will never happen.
Scott Adams, 2015-3-9

Re: Spoiler 11/05/22

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From: toodle.p...@virginmedia.com (Mike McMillan)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: Spoiler 11/05/22
Date: Thu, 12 May 2022 07:13:48 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Mike McMillan - Thu, 12 May 2022 07:13 UTC

Vicky <vicky.ayech@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 11 May 2022 20:33:43 +0100, krw <krw@whitnet.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 11.5.22 19:12, Mike McMillan wrote:
>>> Mike McMillan <toodle.pip1@virginmedia.com> wrote:
>>>> So if you decide you want to consider a new kitchen design, in less than 24
>>>> hours you have a very pushy salesperson in situ to sell you what you
>>>> neither want or afford!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> And I hadn’t realised that the Panto Crew were writing today’s script
>>> either!
>>>
>>
>> Oh no they weren't.
>
> How thick is Shula? If she is talking to a parishioner and takes that
> long to pick up on hints she will be more useless than I thought she
> would be. And the commision is surely only paid on the cost of the
> nuggering kitchen bought? So it won't give Jazzer much, just a stay of
> execution. And don't they have his address on file? I suppose it will
> have been with Jim? Or did he give it as with Tracy?
>
> And Chelsea's action was surely unlikely? And stupid.
>

I find it difficult to believe but, they stated (or at least, Lily did)
that Jazzer would need to earn commission to make his pay worthwhile, and
that was to be earnt through introductions so that a sales rep called on
the luckless person(s) id did not depend on them making a sale however -
Nuts I think!

--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan

Re: Spoiler 11/05/22

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Subject: Re: Spoiler 11/05/22
Date: Thu, 12 May 2022 10:13:37 +0100
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 by: krw - Thu, 12 May 2022 09:13 UTC

On 12.5.22 08:13, Mike McMillan wrote:
> Vicky <vicky.ayech@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 11 May 2022 20:33:43 +0100, krw <krw@whitnet.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On 11.5.22 19:12, Mike McMillan wrote:
>>>> Mike McMillan <toodle.pip1@virginmedia.com> wrote:
>>>>> So if you decide you want to consider a new kitchen design, in less than 24
>>>>> hours you have a very pushy salesperson in situ to sell you what you
>>>>> neither want or afford!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> And I hadn’t realised that the Panto Crew were writing today’s script
>>>> either!
>>>>
>>>
>>> Oh no they weren't.
>>
>> How thick is Shula? If she is talking to a parishioner and takes that
>> long to pick up on hints she will be more useless than I thought she
>> would be. And the commision is surely only paid on the cost of the
>> nuggering kitchen bought? So it won't give Jazzer much, just a stay of
>> execution. And don't they have his address on file? I suppose it will
>> have been with Jim? Or did he give it as with Tracy?
>>
>> And Chelsea's action was surely unlikely? And stupid.
>>
>
> I find it difficult to believe but, they stated (or at least, Lily did)
> that Jazzer would need to earn commission to make his pay worthwhile, and
> that was to be earnt through introductions so that a sales rep called on
> the luckless person(s) id did not depend on them making a sale however -
> Nuts I think!
>

I interpreted it as there being a modest payment for an appointment and
with such persistent sales person at the front end a sale was guaranteed
with a second commission payment when the kitchen went in.

Last time we wanted a kitchen we visited the place that had done someone
else's kitchen so it was not particularly forceful.

--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics

Re: Spoiler 11/05/22

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From: chr...@cdixon.me.uk (Chris J Dixon)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: Spoiler 11/05/22
Date: Thu, 12 May 2022 11:53:26 +0100
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 by: Chris J Dixon - Thu, 12 May 2022 10:53 UTC

krw wrote:

>I interpreted it as there being a modest payment for an appointment and
>with such persistent sales person at the front end a sale was guaranteed
>with a second commission payment when the kitchen went in.
>
>Last time we wanted a kitchen we visited the place that had done someone
>else's kitchen so it was not particularly forceful.

We spent some time seeking offers for our kitchen redesign 14
years ago. It was an interesting experience, and the approaches
of the various companies varied wildly.

Some happily produced detailed costed designs, and had no qualms
about my keeping them. Only one asked for payment to do this.
They were happy to accept input and adapt them following
feedback.

The most upmarket firm had to be pressed hard to even put on
paper the outline of their quote, to record what they were
offering in return for the vast sum they wanted me to shell out.
With little grace they produced a scruffy handwritten note. I got
the impression they were more accustomed to being asked simply to
do the job, no questions asked.

In the end I went with a local firm, and am still happy with the
outcome, and all the design choices that we made. Even 14 years
on, I still think of it as "new".

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham
'48/33 M B+ G++ A L(-) I S-- CH0(--)(p) Ar- T+ H0 ?Q
chris@cdixon.me.uk @ChrisJDixon1
Plant amazing Acers.

Re: Spoiler 11/05/22

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From: toodle.p...@virginmedia.com (Mike McMillan)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: Spoiler 11/05/22
Date: Thu, 12 May 2022 11:31:44 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Mike McMillan - Thu, 12 May 2022 11:31 UTC

krw <krw@whitnet.uk> wrote:
> On 12.5.22 08:13, Mike McMillan wrote:
>> Vicky <vicky.ayech@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 11 May 2022 20:33:43 +0100, krw <krw@whitnet.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 11.5.22 19:12, Mike McMillan wrote:
>>>>> Mike McMillan <toodle.pip1@virginmedia.com> wrote:
>>>>>> So if you decide you want to consider a new kitchen design, in less than 24
>>>>>> hours you have a very pushy salesperson in situ to sell you what you
>>>>>> neither want or afford!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> And I hadn’t realised that the Panto Crew were writing today’s script
>>>>> either!
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Oh no they weren't.
>>>
>>> How thick is Shula? If she is talking to a parishioner and takes that
>>> long to pick up on hints she will be more useless than I thought she
>>> would be. And the commision is surely only paid on the cost of the
>>> nuggering kitchen bought? So it won't give Jazzer much, just a stay of
>>> execution. And don't they have his address on file? I suppose it will
>>> have been with Jim? Or did he give it as with Tracy?
>>>
>>> And Chelsea's action was surely unlikely? And stupid.
>>>
>>
>> I find it difficult to believe but, they stated (or at least, Lily did)
>> that Jazzer would need to earn commission to make his pay worthwhile, and
>> that was to be earnt through introductions so that a sales rep called on
>> the luckless person(s) id did not depend on them making a sale however -
>> Nuts I think!
>>
>
> I interpreted it as there being a modest payment for an appointment and
> with such persistent sales person at the front end a sale was guaranteed
> with a second commission payment when the kitchen went in.
>
> Last time we wanted a kitchen we visited the place that had done someone
> else's kitchen so it was not particularly forceful.
>

We visited three kitchen design and fit companies and our gut feeling told
us which to choose.

--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan

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From: vicky.ay...@gmail.com (Vicky)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: Spoiler 11/05/22
Date: Thu, 12 May 2022 13:41:12 +0100
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 by: Vicky - Thu, 12 May 2022 12:41 UTC

On Thu, 12 May 2022 11:31:44 -0000 (UTC), Mike McMillan
<toodle.pip1@virginmedia.com> wrote:

>krw <krw@whitnet.uk> wrote:
>> On 12.5.22 08:13, Mike McMillan wrote:
>>> Vicky <vicky.ayech@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 11 May 2022 20:33:43 +0100, krw <krw@whitnet.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>
>> Last time we wanted a kitchen we visited the place that had done someone
>> else's kitchen so it was not particularly forceful.
>>
>
>We visited three kitchen design and fit companies and our gut feeling told
>us which to choose.

It is a while since I designed a kitchen. My last 3 moves have been to
new builds where I was only able tochoose flooring and door handles.
:) But over the years I've designed and had fitted ...counting....I
think itis five kitchens. Ok one was a re-do with things in more or
less the same place as it was a make good because of subsidence. An
insurance job though.

But for the others I more or less decided where I wanted what things,
drew plans, talked to kitchen cupboard shops and compared prices. Then
I got a person to do the work. I think it would have been a small
local firm, recommended, and they'd get carpenter, plumber,
electrician, cooker person, tiler, umbrella who does smooth walls when
it turns out the original ones need repair etc as part of their team.
We didn't really go to a kitchen design shop.

Re: Spoiler 11/05/22

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From: toodle.p...@virginmedia.com (Mike McMillan)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: Spoiler 11/05/22
Date: Thu, 12 May 2022 13:04:42 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Mike McMillan - Thu, 12 May 2022 13:04 UTC

Vicky <vicky.ayech@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 12 May 2022 11:31:44 -0000 (UTC), Mike McMillan
> <toodle.pip1@virginmedia.com> wrote:
>
>> krw <krw@whitnet.uk> wrote:
>>> On 12.5.22 08:13, Mike McMillan wrote:
>>>> Vicky <vicky.ayech@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 11 May 2022 20:33:43 +0100, krw <krw@whitnet.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>
>>> Last time we wanted a kitchen we visited the place that had done someone
>>> else's kitchen so it was not particularly forceful.
>>>
>>
>> We visited three kitchen design and fit companies and our gut feeling told
>> us which to choose.
>
> It is a while since I designed a kitchen. My last 3 moves have been to
> new builds where I was only able tochoose flooring and door handles.
> :) But over the years I've designed and had fitted ...counting....I
> think itis five kitchens. Ok one was a re-do with things in more or
> less the same place as it was a make good because of subsidence. An
> insurance job though.
>
> But for the others I more or less decided where I wanted what things,
> drew plans, talked to kitchen cupboard shops and compared prices. Then
> I got a person to do the work. I think it would have been a small
> local firm, recommended, and they'd get carpenter, plumber,
> electrician, cooker person, tiler, umbrella who does smooth walls when
> it turns out the original ones need repair etc as part of their team.
> We didn't really go to a kitchen design shop.
>
>

The salesman from the company we chose knew of our mobility restrictions
and offered to take us to their main showroom in Maidenhead, had samples
brought to their Woodley branch so that we could see them there and also
took us to a tile specialist to choose the wall tiles. We had already
determined our floor covering from another supplier who happily worked to
the kitchen fitter’s schedule.

--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan

Re: Spoiler 11/05/22

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From: new...@theholefamily.org (Philip Hole)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: Spoiler 11/05/22
Date: Thu, 12 May 2022 14:32:58 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Philip Hole - Thu, 12 May 2022 13:32 UTC

On 12/05/2022 13:41, Vicky wrote:
> On Thu, 12 May 2022 11:31:44 -0000 (UTC), Mike McMillan
> <toodle.pip1@virginmedia.com> wrote:
>
>> krw <krw@whitnet.uk> wrote:
>>> On 12.5.22 08:13, Mike McMillan wrote:
>>>> Vicky <vicky.ayech@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 11 May 2022 20:33:43 +0100, krw <krw@whitnet.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>
>>> Last time we wanted a kitchen we visited the place that had done someone
>>> else's kitchen so it was not particularly forceful.
>>>
>>
>> We visited three kitchen design and fit companies and our gut feeling told
>> us which to choose.
>
> It is a while since I designed a kitchen. My last 3 moves have been to
> new builds where I was only able tochoose flooring and door handles.
> :) But over the years I've designed and had fitted ...counting....I
> think itis five kitchens. Ok one was a re-do with things in more or
> less the same place as it was a make good because of subsidence. An
> insurance job though.
>
> But for the others I more or less decided where I wanted what things,
> drew plans, talked to kitchen cupboard shops and compared prices. Then
> I got a person to do the work. I think it would have been a small
> local firm, recommended, and they'd get carpenter, plumber,
> electrician, cooker person, tiler, umbrella who does smooth walls when
> it turns out the original ones need repair etc as part of their team.
> We didn't really go to a kitchen design shop.
>

We had an electrician in to do some re-wiring and I mentioned to him
that we needed a new kitchen.
"I'll do that for you"

Yes, well, it needs more than an electrician.

As he did a great job on the electrics we decided to take a chance.

We ordered the units from a well known DIY store. They prepared the
plans to his specifications.

The bits and pieces arrived and he went to work. With his two
assistants. He produced someone to cut the benchtop.

Our only concern was that wouldn't tell us how much it would cost.

"I will charge you a fair price and you wont regret it".
When he had finished the kitchen was brilliant. Everything fitted
including units that another DIY store kitchen designer said would not fit.

The bill....

Amazing.

The only downside was that he appeared at random intervals, worked like
mad for three or four hours and then disappeared again. His lads used to
call him the Scarlet Pimpernel.

So.. My recommendation would be.. get the installer first.

--
Flop

Re: Spoiler 11/05/22

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From: vicky.ay...@gmail.com (Vicky)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: Spoiler 11/05/22
Date: Thu, 12 May 2022 17:54:51 +0100
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 by: Vicky - Thu, 12 May 2022 16:54 UTC

On Thu, 12 May 2022 14:32:58 +0100, Philip Hole
<news@theholefamily.org> wrote:

>On 12/05/2022 13:41, Vicky wrote:
>> On Thu, 12 May 2022 11:31:44 -0000 (UTC), Mike McMillan
>> <toodle.pip1@virginmedia.com> wrote:
>>
>>> krw <krw@whitnet.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 12.5.22 08:13, Mike McMillan wrote:
>>>>> Vicky <vicky.ayech@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 11 May 2022 20:33:43 +0100, krw <krw@whitnet.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Last time we wanted a kitchen we visited the place that had done someone
>>>> else's kitchen so it was not particularly forceful.
>>>>
>>>
>>> We visited three kitchen design and fit companies and our gut feeling told
>>> us which to choose.
>>
>> It is a while since I designed a kitchen. My last 3 moves have been to
>> new builds where I was only able tochoose flooring and door handles.
>> :) But over the years I've designed and had fitted ...counting....I
>> think itis five kitchens. Ok one was a re-do with things in more or
>> less the same place as it was a make good because of subsidence. An
>> insurance job though.
>>
>> But for the others I more or less decided where I wanted what things,
>> drew plans, talked to kitchen cupboard shops and compared prices. Then
>> I got a person to do the work. I think it would have been a small
>> local firm, recommended, and they'd get carpenter, plumber,
>> electrician, cooker person, tiler, umbrella who does smooth walls when
>> it turns out the original ones need repair etc as part of their team.
>> We didn't really go to a kitchen design shop.
>>
>
>We had an electrician in to do some re-wiring and I mentioned to him
>that we needed a new kitchen.
>"I'll do that for you"
>
>Yes, well, it needs more than an electrician.
>
>As he did a great job on the electrics we decided to take a chance.
>
>We ordered the units from a well known DIY store. They prepared the
>plans to his specifications.
>
>The bits and pieces arrived and he went to work. With his two
>assistants. He produced someone to cut the benchtop.
>
>Our only concern was that wouldn't tell us how much it would cost.
>
>"I will charge you a fair price and you wont regret it".
>When he had finished the kitchen was brilliant. Everything fitted
>including units that another DIY store kitchen designer said would not fit.
>
>The bill....
>
>Amazing.
>
>The only downside was that he appeared at random intervals, worked like
>mad for three or four hours and then disappeared again. His lads used to
>call him the Scarlet Pimpernel.
>
>So.. My recommendation would be.. get the installer first.

Yes we've had fitters and othr workmen like that. Here and then there
:)

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From: toodle.p...@virginmedia.com (Mike McMillan)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: Spoiler 11/05/22
Date: Thu, 12 May 2022 17:05:30 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Mike McMillan - Thu, 12 May 2022 17:05 UTC

Philip Hole <news@theholefamily.org> wrote:
> On 12/05/2022 13:41, Vicky wrote:
>> On Thu, 12 May 2022 11:31:44 -0000 (UTC), Mike McMillan
>> <toodle.pip1@virginmedia.com> wrote:
>>
>>> krw <krw@whitnet.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 12.5.22 08:13, Mike McMillan wrote:
>>>>> Vicky <vicky.ayech@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 11 May 2022 20:33:43 +0100, krw <krw@whitnet.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Last time we wanted a kitchen we visited the place that had done someone
>>>> else's kitchen so it was not particularly forceful.
>>>>
>>>
>>> We visited three kitchen design and fit companies and our gut feeling told
>>> us which to choose.
>>
>> It is a while since I designed a kitchen. My last 3 moves have been to
>> new builds where I was only able tochoose flooring and door handles.
>> :) But over the years I've designed and had fitted ...counting....I
>> think itis five kitchens. Ok one was a re-do with things in more or
>> less the same place as it was a make good because of subsidence. An
>> insurance job though.
>>
>> But for the others I more or less decided where I wanted what things,
>> drew plans, talked to kitchen cupboard shops and compared prices. Then
>> I got a person to do the work. I think it would have been a small
>> local firm, recommended, and they'd get carpenter, plumber,
>> electrician, cooker person, tiler, umbrella who does smooth walls when
>> it turns out the original ones need repair etc as part of their team.
>> We didn't really go to a kitchen design shop.
>>
>
> We had an electrician in to do some re-wiring and I mentioned to him
> that we needed a new kitchen.
> "I'll do that for you"
>
> Yes, well, it needs more than an electrician.
>
> As he did a great job on the electrics we decided to take a chance.
>
> We ordered the units from a well known DIY store. They prepared the
> plans to his specifications.
>
> The bits and pieces arrived and he went to work. With his two
> assistants. He produced someone to cut the benchtop.
>
> Our only concern was that wouldn't tell us how much it would cost.
>
> "I will charge you a fair price and you wont regret it".
> When he had finished the kitchen was brilliant. Everything fitted
> including units that another DIY store kitchen designer said would not fit.
>
> The bill....
>
> Amazing.
>
> The only downside was that he appeared at random intervals, worked like
> mad for three or four hours and then disappeared again. His lads used to
> call him the Scarlet Pimpernel.
>
> So.. My recommendation would be.. get the installer first.
>

‘His lads’ …. Err… did they neigh?

--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan

Re: Spoiler 11/05/22

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From: rtilbury...@gmail.com (BrritSki)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: Spoiler 11/05/22
Date: Thu, 12 May 2022 18:06:46 +0100
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 by: BrritSki - Thu, 12 May 2022 17:06 UTC

On 11/05/2022 23:28, Penny wrote:
> On Wed, 11 May 2022 18:10:00 -0000 (UTC), Mike McMillan
> <toodle.pip1@virginmedia.com> scrawled in the dust...
>
>> So if you decide you want to consider a new kitchen design, in less than 24
>> hours you have a very pushy salesperson in situ to sell you what you
>> neither want or afford!
>
> Many years ago, a friend in the village asked us if his youngest son could
> visit us and try to sell us a kitchen. We said we neither needed nor wanted
> a new kitchen, he insisted that didn't matter, the son had started this new
> job and just needed some bookings to practice his pitch.
>
> I'm not sure he had told his son this was just a practice booking - he
> seemed very unhappy when we showed little enthusiasm. Don't know how long
> he lasted in that job, nor how he ended up as the successful racehorse
> trainer he is today.

He found it easier to flog a live horse ?

Re: Spoiler 11/05/22

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Subject: Re: Spoiler 11/05/22
From: tonybrye...@gmail.com (MelbTony)
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 by: MelbTony - Fri, 13 May 2022 06:46 UTC

Around 35 years I spent a while drawing plans for a conservatory company. I got paid 1% of the contract sum for drawing the plans and getting any permissions required; the sales rep got 10% - the better of the two they employed earned £86K in one year (x3 in today's money?). I got a few insights into how this was done:

Rule 1 was to qualify the lead so the rep's time wasn't wasted. Rule 2 - assuming it was a husband and wife couple - was that when making the appointment you confirmed that both parties would be there: "leave the details with me and I'll discuss it with my wife/husband when they get home/tomorrow" is a known deal killer. Rule 3 was to read the room and play to whichever party was proving 'difficult'. Rule 4: offer choices on the assumption that they're buying as in "so do you prefer a or b?" Rule 5: Make the initial price high, then conspicuously put on the coffee table a £x000 discount 'cheque', valid this evening only. It looks at them and burns into their consciousness. If they're still difficult phone the boss, with the inevitable response, "he says he really doesn't want to do this, but if you sign this evening we can knock £x off". Rule 6: If they say they want time to think, ask for their objections and work these down. If you leave without a signature the chances of them coming back to sign are low.

And there are probably more tricks. The sales reps had a core price list (not shown to the customer of course) and if they could sell above this they got to keep something like 50% of the excess which probably made a chunk of the £86K

Having previously come unstuck drawing plans for other firms that had gone broke, I made it rule not to give more than a third of my time to any one client. Boss of the said firm pressed me to take on more but I declined. Having ascertained that it was nice clean work and I considered the pay more than adequate, he called me stupid for this policy. When he went broke owing me a couple of thousand pounds, but no more, I was glad to have imposed that rule. The subcontractors who erected said conservatories weren't so lucky.

Re: Spoiler 11/05/22

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From: toodle.p...@virginmedia.com (Mike McMillan)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: Spoiler 11/05/22
Date: Fri, 13 May 2022 09:12:06 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Mike McMillan - Fri, 13 May 2022 09:12 UTC

MelbTony <tonybryermelb@gmail.com> wrote:
> Around 35 years I spent a while drawing plans for a conservatory company.
> I got paid 1% of the contract sum for drawing the plans and getting any
> permissions required; the sales rep got 10% - the better of the two they
> employed earned £86K in one year (x3 in today's money?). I got a few
> insights into how this was done:
>
> Rule 1 was to qualify the lead so the rep's time wasn't wasted. Rule 2 -
> assuming it was a husband and wife couple - was that when making the
> appointment you confirmed that both parties would be there: "leave the
> details with me and I'll discuss it with my wife/husband when they get
> home/tomorrow" is a known deal killer. Rule 3 was to read the room and
> play to whichever party was proving 'difficult'. Rule 4: offer choices on
> the assumption that they're buying as in "so do you prefer a or b?" Rule
> 5: Make the initial price high, then conspicuously put on the coffee
> table a £x000 discount 'cheque', valid this evening only. It looks at
> them and burns into their consciousness. If they're still difficult phone
> the boss, with the inevitable response, "he says he really doesn't want
> to do this, but if you sign this evening we can knock £x off". Rule 6: If
> they say they want time to think, ask for their objections and work these
> down. If you leave without a signature the chances of them coming back to sign are low.
>
> And there are probably more tricks. The sales reps had a core price list
> (not shown to the customer of course) and if they could sell above this
> they got to keep something like 50% of the excess which probably made a chunk of the £86K
>
> Having previously come unstuck drawing plans for other firms that had
> gone broke, I made it rule not to give more than a third of my time to
> any one client. Boss of the said firm pressed me to take on more but I
> declined. Having ascertained that it was nice clean work and I considered
> the pay more than adequate, he called me stupid for this policy. When he
> went broke owing me a couple of thousand pounds, but no more, I was glad
> to have imposed that rule. The subcontractors who erected said
> conservatories weren't so lucky.
>

I have had a number of installers look at our project to fit an air source
heat pump system with existing or new radiators and provided the EPC
details to them (C by the way, with room to go up to a B when solar power
is up and running) and their calculations of heat requirements have varied
by 200 - 300%. The 100% rating was based on actual need; room sizes,
insulation, number of rooms etc. and this took a plumber and an electrician
a full morning to work out making due consideration for all restrictions we
imposed on siting of HWT and the ASHP monobloc itself. Their calculation
showed that a 7 kW/H system would be sufficient (some radiator improvements
would need to be carried out for this). One ‘installer entered the hall and
within 3-4 minutes informed us we required an 18kW/H system; he had not
done any measurements of calculations to arrive at this figure. :-(

--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan

Re: Spoiler 11/05/22

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From: cli...@nowaytoday.co.uk (Clive Arthur)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: Spoiler 11/05/22
Date: Fri, 13 May 2022 11:58:28 +0100
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 by: Clive Arthur - Fri, 13 May 2022 10:58 UTC

On 13/05/2022 10:12, Mike McMillan wrote:

<snip>

> One ‘installer entered the hall and
> within 3-4 minutes informed us we required an 18kW/H system;

Your house wouldn't last long if your power were to accelerate at that rate.

--
Cheers
Clive

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Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: Spoiler 11/05/22
Date: Fri, 13 May 2022 14:18:29 +0100
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 by: Nick Odell - Fri, 13 May 2022 13:18 UTC

On Thu, 12 May 2022 23:46:53 -0700 (PDT), MelbTony
<tonybryermelb@gmail.com> wrote:

>Around 35 years I spent a while drawing plans for a conservatory company. I got paid 1% of the contract sum for drawing the plans and getting any permissions required; the sales rep got 10% - the better of the two they employed earned £86K in one year (x3 in today's money?). I got a few insights into how this was done:
>
>Rule 1 was to qualify the lead so the rep's time wasn't wasted. Rule 2 - assuming it was a husband and wife couple - was that when making the appointment you confirmed that both parties would be there: "leave the details with me and I'll discuss it with my wife/husband when they get home/tomorrow" is a known deal killer. Rule 3 was to read the room and play to whichever party was proving 'difficult'. Rule 4: offer choices on the assumption that they're buying as in "so do you prefer a or b?" Rule 5: Make the initial price high, then conspicuously put on the coffee table a £x000 discount 'cheque', valid this evening only. It looks at them and burns into their consciousness. If they're still difficult phone the boss, with the inevitable response, "he says he really doesn't want to do this, but if you sign this evening we can knock £x off". Rule 6: If they say they want time to think, ask for their objections and work these down. If you leave without a signature the chances of them
>coming back to sign are low.
>
>And there are probably more tricks. The sales reps had a core price list (not shown to the customer of course) and if they could sell above this they got to keep something like 50% of the excess which probably made a chunk of the £86K
>
>Having previously come unstuck drawing plans for other firms that had gone broke, I made it rule not to give more than a third of my time to any one client. Boss of the said firm pressed me to take on more but I declined. Having ascertained that it was nice clean work and I considered the pay more than adequate, he called me stupid for this policy. When he went broke owing me a couple of thousand pounds, but no more, I was glad to have imposed that rule. The subcontractors who erected said conservatories weren't so lucky.

As I was discussing earlier this week in a different group, I was
taught always have a second source for any components you depend on
and never let any one customer provide more than one fifth of your
business - though I can see different percentages would work in
different circumstances. The main thing being to avoid the absolute
carnage the car industry was known for in the midlands when collapse
of one main company would lead to the demise of the dozens of
single-product, single customer component manufacturers in the same
neighbourhood who had been supplying them.

I was very lucky really: for one thing I had lots of little retailers
that I worked for rather than one big one and I never lost a great
deal of money when the odd one or two went bust.

One shop was especially decent: I was making my regular delivery of
mended instruments and the owner took the invoice and said he would
pay me there and then. "No need," I replied. "You've got a thirty-day
account." "Well, you are here now, so I may as well," he said. Which
struck me as a bit odd because I was always there, collecting or
delivering. And the cash payment in place of a cheque was a bit odd
too. Next week they went bust, closed, shuttered and gone. As I said,
especially decent.

Nick

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Subject: Re: Spoiler 11/05/22
Date: Fri, 13 May 2022 14:40:43 +0100
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 by: Nick Odell - Fri, 13 May 2022 13:40 UTC

On Thu, 12 May 2022 00:03:09 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
<G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:

>On Wed, 11 May 2022 at 18:10:00, Mike McMillan
><toodle.pip1@virginmedia.com> wrote (my responses usually FOLLOW):
>>So if you decide you want to consider a new kitchen design, in less than 24
>>hours you have a very pushy salesperson in situ to sell you what you
>>neither want or afford!
>>
>>
>I kept actually turning off the radio, then turning it back on to see if
>that bit had finished. I really found it painful to listen to.

It's been another strange week in Ambridge.

Since Nigel did his death-plunge all those years ago and I switched
off my radio in protest, I've gradually come back to having the radio
on more-or-less all day. The question then is whether I am listening
to it.

It's been a strange week because I have no recollection of hearing at
least a couple of those episodes so they can't have grabbed me at the
time. Then a couple where I know I had been listening but was left
wondering what it had all been about. And then there was the kitchen.

That whole week was so unlike Nick Warburton that I wonder if there is
something else going on? Perhaps if you read the script pages up and
down instead of horizontally left to right it might say "Help! They
have locked me in The MailBox and won't release me unless I agree to
write Lynda's panto!"

Nick

Re: Spoiler 11/05/22

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From: linda...@ntlworld.com (Linda Fox)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: Spoiler 11/05/22
Date: Fri, 13 May 2022 14:34:03 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Linda Fox - Fri, 13 May 2022 14:34 UTC

Mike McMillan <toodle.pip1@virginmedia.com> wrote:
> krw <krw@whitnet.uk> wrote:
>> On 12.5.22 08:13, Mike McMillan wrote:
>>> Vicky <vicky.ayech@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 11 May 2022 20:33:43 +0100, krw <krw@whitnet.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 11.5.22 19:12, Mike McMillan wrote:
>>>>>> Mike McMillan <toodle.pip1@virginmedia.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> So if you decide you want to consider a new kitchen design, in less than 24
>>>>>>> hours you have a very pushy salesperson in situ to sell you what you
>>>>>>> neither want or afford!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And I hadn’t realised that the Panto Crew were writing today’s script
>>>>>> either!
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh no they weren't.
>>>>
>>>> How thick is Shula? If she is talking to a parishioner and takes that
>>>> long to pick up on hints she will be more useless than I thought she
>>>> would be. And the commision is surely only paid on the cost of the
>>>> nuggering kitchen bought? So it won't give Jazzer much, just a stay of
>>>> execution. And don't they have his address on file? I suppose it will
>>>> have been with Jim? Or did he give it as with Tracy?
>>>>
>>>> And Chelsea's action was surely unlikely? And stupid.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I find it difficult to believe but, they stated (or at least, Lily did)
>>> that Jazzer would need to earn commission to make his pay worthwhile, and
>>> that was to be earnt through introductions so that a sales rep called on
>>> the luckless person(s) id did not depend on them making a sale however -
>>> Nuts I think!
>>>
>>
>> I interpreted it as there being a modest payment for an appointment and
>> with such persistent sales person at the front end a sale was guaranteed
>> with a second commission payment when the kitchen went in.
>>
>> Last time we wanted a kitchen we visited the place that had done someone
>> else's kitchen so it was not particularly forceful.
>>
>
> We visited three kitchen design and fit companies and our gut feeling told
> us which to choose.
>

We needed a complete re-fit and contacted three companies. Two of them told
me to go to their showrooms. I said I thought that was pointless without
them first having seen my unworkable kitchen and taken measurements, so
could they please come to see me first. Both of them said no, they never
did it that way round.

The third was a Polish family firm. The first thing that happened was their
CEO coming around to walk through my kitchen, take lots of photos and
measurements, and then the niece who was their chief designer realised them
on the computer and invited us to their showroom. The original price was
low because I wanted to include my old fridge and cooker, but I allowed
them to twist my arm into getting all new integrated appliances which
pushed the project into another sphere entirely, something about which I
have no regrets. It doesn’t have room for a dining table and I didn’t want
one to clutter the living room so I asked for a substantial “breakfast bar”
at the far end, which was our one dining area. Fine for just the two of us.
The end result is sleek and smooth, no handles on doors or drawers, just
smooth opening by pulling the edges.

It took longer than it should have, was ready just in time for Christmas
except the sink wasn’t plumbed in (plumber had covid) so we fetched water
and washed up in the little basin in the downstairs loo, but it was all
done by the second week in January. Sad that Robin didn’t get to enjoy more
than 6 weeks of it.

lff

--
Linda ff

Re: Spoiler 11/05/22

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From: toodle.p...@virginmedia.com (Mike McMillan)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: Spoiler 11/05/22
Date: Fri, 13 May 2022 14:51:09 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Mike McMillan - Fri, 13 May 2022 14:51 UTC

Nick Odell <nick@themusicworkshop.plus.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 12 May 2022 23:46:53 -0700 (PDT), MelbTony
> <tonybryermelb@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Around 35 years I spent a while drawing plans for a conservatory
>> company. I got paid 1% of the contract sum for drawing the plans and
>> getting any permissions required; the sales rep got 10% - the better of
>> the two they employed earned £86K in one year (x3 in today's money?). I
>> got a few insights into how this was done:
>>
>> Rule 1 was to qualify the lead so the rep's time wasn't wasted. Rule 2 -
>> assuming it was a husband and wife couple - was that when making the
>> appointment you confirmed that both parties would be there: "leave the
>> details with me and I'll discuss it with my wife/husband when they get
>> home/tomorrow" is a known deal killer. Rule 3 was to read the room and
>> play to whichever party was proving 'difficult'. Rule 4: offer choices
>> on the assumption that they're buying as in "so do you prefer a or b?"
>> Rule 5: Make the initial price high, then conspicuously put on the
>> coffee table a £x000 discount 'cheque', valid this evening only. It
>> looks at them and burns into their consciousness. If they're still
>> difficult phone the boss, with the inevitable response, "he says he
>> really doesn't want to do this, but if you sign this evening we can
>> knock £x off". Rule 6: If they say they want time to think, ask for
>> their objections and work these down. If you leave without a signature the chances of them
>> coming back to sign are low.
>>
>> And there are probably more tricks. The sales reps had a core price list
>> (not shown to the customer of course) and if they could sell above this
>> they got to keep something like 50% of the excess which probably made a chunk of the £86K
>>
>> Having previously come unstuck drawing plans for other firms that had
>> gone broke, I made it rule not to give more than a third of my time to
>> any one client. Boss of the said firm pressed me to take on more but I
>> declined. Having ascertained that it was nice clean work and I
>> considered the pay more than adequate, he called me stupid for this
>> policy. When he went broke owing me a couple of thousand pounds, but no
>> more, I was glad to have imposed that rule. The subcontractors who
>> erected said conservatories weren't so lucky.
>
> As I was discussing earlier this week in a different group, I was
> taught always have a second source for any components you depend on
> and never let any one customer provide more than one fifth of your
> business - though I can see different percentages would work in
> different circumstances. The main thing being to avoid the absolute
> carnage the car industry was known for in the midlands when collapse
> of one main company would lead to the demise of the dozens of
> single-product, single customer component manufacturers in the same
> neighbourhood who had been supplying them.
>
> I was very lucky really: for one thing I had lots of little retailers
> that I worked for rather than one big one and I never lost a great
> deal of money when the odd one or two went bust.
>
> One shop was especially decent: I was making my regular delivery of
> mended instruments and the owner took the invoice and said he would
> pay me there and then. "No need," I replied. "You've got a thirty-day
> account." "Well, you are here now, so I may as well," he said. Which
> struck me as a bit odd because I was always there, collecting or
> delivering. And the cash payment in place of a cheque was a bit odd
> too. Next week they went bust, closed, shuttered and gone. As I said,
> especially decent.
>
> Nick
>

I have heard the ‘working for one or two companies only’ as ‘Marks &
Spencer Syndrome’. In my part time recording work, I worked for some
hundreds of clients and rarely had problems, though, over the years, I had
three defaulters who were all taken through the small claims court and I
received full payment and expenses in each case.

--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan

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