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aus+uk / uk.media.radio.archers / Re: I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.

SubjectAuthor
* I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.steve hague
+* I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Jim Easterbrook
|+- I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.steve hague
|+- I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Kate B
|`* I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.J. P. Gilliver (John)
| `* I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.steve hague
|  +* I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Nick Odell
|  |+- I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Jim Easterbrook
|  |`* I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.J. P. Gilliver (John)
|  | +* I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Sid Nuncius
|  | |+- I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Penny
|  | |`* I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.steve hague
|  | | `* I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Sid Nuncius
|  | |  +* I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.steve hague
|  | |  |`- I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Sid Nuncius
|  | |  `* I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.J. P. Gilliver (John)
|  | |   `* I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Chris
|  | |    +* I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.J. P. Gilliver (John)
|  | |    |`- I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Chris
|  | |    `- I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Mike Ruddock
|  | +* I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Linda Fox
|  | |+- I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.J. P. Gilliver (John)
|  | |`- I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Vicky
|  | +* I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Chris
|  | |+* I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.BrritSki
|  | ||+* I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Vicky
|  | |||`- I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Min
|  | ||`- I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Sid Nuncius
|  | |+* I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Min
|  | ||`- I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Chris
|  | |`* I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Linda Fox
|  | | `- I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Mike McMillan
|  | `* I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Kate B
|  |  +* I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.J. P. Gilliver (John)
|  |  |`* I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Vicky
|  |  | +* I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Nick Odell
|  |  | |`* I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.J. P. Gilliver (John)
|  |  | | `* I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Nick Odell
|  |  | |  `- I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.J. P. Gilliver (John)
|  |  | +* I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Jenny M Benson
|  |  | |`* I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Vicky
|  |  | | `* I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Jenny M Benson
|  |  | |  `* I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.J. P. Gilliver (John)
|  |  | |   `* I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Jim Easterbrook
|  |  | |    `* I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Sid Nuncius
|  |  | |     `- I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.J. P. Gilliver (John)
|  |  | `* I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Penny
|  |  |  +- I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.J. P. Gilliver (John)
|  |  |  +- I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Nick Odell
|  |  |  `- I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Vicky
|  |  `- I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Sid Nuncius
|  `* I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Clive Arthur
|   `* I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Linda Fox
|    `- I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Mike McMillan
`* I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Tony Smith
 `* I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Linda Fox
  +- I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.J. P. Gilliver (John)
  `- I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Tony Smith

Pages:123
I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.

<t5vm5h$c3b$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: stevehag...@gmail.com (steve hague)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 09:25:00 +0100
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 by: steve hague - Tue, 17 May 2022 08:25 UTC

It seems that when any spectacular astronomical event is due to be
visible from hereabouts, heavy clouds form. When the solar eclipse
happened in 1999, we lived in a village right in the middle of the path
of totality. The clouds rolled in several hours before the eclipse, and
rolled out again several hours later. Yesterday there was a blood moon
to be seen at dawn, and since I get up at 5 when on church duty, I was
looking forward to seeing it. What I saw was a leaden sky. I have never
seen the Perseids. Today we had a clear blue sky at sunrise.
Steve

Re: I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.

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From: new...@jim-easterbrook.me.uk (Jim Easterbrook)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.
Date: 17 May 2022 09:19:21 GMT
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 by: Jim Easterbrook - Tue, 17 May 2022 09:19 UTC

On Tue, 17 May 2022 09:25:00 +0100, steve hague wrote:

> It seems that when any spectacular astronomical event is due to be
> visible from hereabouts, heavy clouds form. When the solar eclipse
> happened in 1999, we lived in a village right in the middle of the path
> of totality. The clouds rolled in several hours before the eclipse, and
> rolled out again several hours later. Yesterday there was a blood moon
> to be seen at dawn, and since I get up at 5 when on church duty, I was
> looking forward to seeing it. What I saw was a leaden sky. I have never
> seen the Perseids. Today we had a clear blue sky at sunrise.

That's just how it is for British astronomy enthusiasts. There's an old
clip from The Sky at Night with Patrick and someone else desperately
trying to see anything through a load of cloud in a live broadcast.

PS "Blood moon" is not a term to be used lightly. It was coined by yet
another barking religious cult.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_moon_prophecy

--
Jim <http://www.jim-easterbrook.me.uk/>
1959/1985? M B+ G+ A L- I- S- P-- CH0(p) Ar++ T+ H0 Q--- Sh0

Re: I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.

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Subject: Re: I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.
From: agsmith5...@gmail.com (Tony Smith)
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 by: Tony Smith - Tue, 17 May 2022 09:38 UTC

On Tuesday, 17 May 2022 at 09:25:33 UTC+1, steve hague wrote:
> It seems that when any spectacular astronomical event is due to be
> visible from hereabouts, heavy clouds form. When the solar eclipse
> happened in 1999, we lived in a village right in the middle of the path
> of totality. The clouds rolled in several hours before the eclipse, and
> rolled out again several hours later. Yesterday there was a blood moon
> to be seen at dawn, and since I get up at 5 when on church duty, I was
> looking forward to seeing it. What I saw was a leaden sky. I have never
> seen the Perseids. Today we had a clear blue sky at sunrise.
> Steve

We went to Szeged in Hungary to see the 1999 eclipse. The day began cloudy but the hotelier said it was reported clearing from the west and lake Balaton was already clear. Se we drove off in that direction (we had brought the car) and it cleared up long before Balaton at a little lakeside camp site near Soltvadkert (spelling) and we saw it perfectly. The queues at the snack bars afterwards were ginirmous. My godfather in Saarbrücken however had a thunderstorm so the skies were doubly dark.

Re: I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.

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From: stevehag...@gmail.com (steve hague)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 12:37:31 +0100
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 by: steve hague - Tue, 17 May 2022 11:37 UTC

On 17/05/2022 10:19, Jim Easterbrook wrote:
> On Tue, 17 May 2022 09:25:00 +0100, steve hague wrote:
>
>> It seems that when any spectacular astronomical event is due to be
>> visible from hereabouts, heavy clouds form. When the solar eclipse
>> happened in 1999, we lived in a village right in the middle of the path
>> of totality. The clouds rolled in several hours before the eclipse, and
>> rolled out again several hours later. Yesterday there was a blood moon
>> to be seen at dawn, and since I get up at 5 when on church duty, I was
>> looking forward to seeing it. What I saw was a leaden sky. I have never
>> seen the Perseids. Today we had a clear blue sky at sunrise.
>
> That's just how it is for British astronomy enthusiasts. There's an old
> clip from The Sky at Night with Patrick and someone else desperately
> trying to see anything through a load of cloud in a live broadcast.
>
> PS "Blood moon" is not a term to be used lightly. It was coined by yet
> another barking religious cult.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_moon_prophecy
>
Yes, I know about the bonkers stuff, but the term was being used on the
mainstream news, so I don't think it's just a religious thing. I've
never seen the phenomenon, but my wife has, whilst camping on Bodmin
Moor with friends a good few years ago. They didn't know it was going to
happen, and were a little perturbed.

Re: I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.

<jehg9rFb83oU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: elv...@nospam.demon.co.uk (Kate B)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 12:47:07 +0100
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 by: Kate B - Tue, 17 May 2022 11:47 UTC

On 17/05/2022 10:19, Jim Easterbrook wrote:
> On Tue, 17 May 2022 09:25:00 +0100, steve hague wrote:
>
>> It seems that when any spectacular astronomical event is due to be
>> visible from hereabouts, heavy clouds form. When the solar eclipse
>> happened in 1999, we lived in a village right in the middle of the path
>> of totality. The clouds rolled in several hours before the eclipse, and
>> rolled out again several hours later. Yesterday there was a blood moon
>> to be seen at dawn, and since I get up at 5 when on church duty, I was
>> looking forward to seeing it. What I saw was a leaden sky. I have never
>> seen the Perseids. Today we had a clear blue sky at sunrise.
>
> That's just how it is for British astronomy enthusiasts. There's an old
> clip from The Sky at Night with Patrick and someone else desperately
> trying to see anything through a load of cloud in a live broadcast.
>
> PS "Blood moon" is not a term to be used lightly. It was coined by yet
> another barking religious cult.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_moon_prophecy
>

It always makes me think of Wozzeck. Also not light-hearsted...

--
Kate B

Re: I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.

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From: G6J...@255soft.uk (J. P. Gilliver (John))
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 14:06:06 +0100
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 by: J. P. Gilliver (John - Tue, 17 May 2022 13:06 UTC

On Tue, 17 May 2022 at 09:19:21, Jim Easterbrook
<news@jim-easterbrook.me.uk> wrote (my responses usually FOLLOW):
>On Tue, 17 May 2022 09:25:00 +0100, steve hague wrote:

The thread title had me mentally humming it (if that's a thing), as I
rather like the tune, then checking, and I haven't got a copy (on my
computer; I'm sure I have on hard media, probably by Nana), so I'm going
to go find one.
>
>> It seems that when any spectacular astronomical event is due to be
>> visible from hereabouts, heavy clouds form. When the solar eclipse
[]
>That's just how it is for British astronomy enthusiasts. There's an old

Indeed.

>clip from The Sky at Night with Patrick and someone else desperately
>trying to see anything through a load of cloud in a live broadcast.

It gets brought out occasionally; quite amusing.
>
>PS "Blood moon" is not a term to be used lightly. It was coined by yet
>another barking religious cult.

Yes, strange lot in the home counties. As for reading ... (-:
[]
(What bugs me is how the media often get these things wrong. In this
case, other than not just explaining that it's just a lunar eclipse,
they didn't do too badly; while they mentioned that the moon was at a
closest point, they didn't say it was ridiculously large, as they
sometimes do [and with Mars in similar circumstances]. Maybe they're
learning.)

P. S. I've just remembered that the song title doesn't have "clouds" -
and I _do_ have an mp3 (and yes, by NM).
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

They are public servants, so we will threat them rather as Flashman treats
servants. - Stephen Fry on some people's attitudo to the BBC, in Radio Times,
3-9 July 2010

Re: I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.

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From: stevehag...@gmail.com (steve hague)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 19:27:01 +0100
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 by: steve hague - Tue, 17 May 2022 18:27 UTC

> []
> (What bugs me is how the media often get these things wrong. In this
> case, other than not just explaining that it's just a lunar eclipse,
> they didn't do too badly; while they mentioned that the moon was at a
> closest point, they didn't say it was ridiculously large, as they
> sometimes do [and with Mars in similar circumstances]. Maybe they're
> learning.)
>
> P. S. I've just remembered that the song title doesn't have "clouds" -
> and I _do_ have an mp3 (and yes, by NM).

NM? JM shirly.

Re: I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.

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From: nic...@themusicworkshop.plus.com (Nick Odell)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 20:02:18 +0100
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 by: Nick Odell - Tue, 17 May 2022 19:02 UTC

On Tue, 17 May 2022 19:27:01 +0100, steve hague
<stevehague82@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>> []
>> (What bugs me is how the media often get these things wrong. In this
>> case, other than not just explaining that it's just a lunar eclipse,
>> they didn't do too badly; while they mentioned that the moon was at a
>> closest point, they didn't say it was ridiculously large, as they
>> sometimes do [and with Mars in similar circumstances]. Maybe they're
>> learning.)
>>
>> P. S. I've just remembered that the song title doesn't have "clouds" -
>> and I _do_ have an mp3 (and yes, by NM).
>
>NM? JM shirly.

According to https://secondhandsongs.com/performance/2558 there are
436 cover versions of Joni Mitchell's Both Sides Now and I'm guessing
- not entirely without evidence - that John has the Nana Mouskouri
version in mind.

If I hadn't known that Joni Mitchell had written it, I'd have guessed
it had been by Julie Felix. Felix appeared to be, IMO, "the acceptable
face of the American Folk movement" and always seemed to be on our
television singing other people's songs.

Nick

Re: I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.

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From: new...@jim-easterbrook.me.uk (Jim Easterbrook)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.
Date: 17 May 2022 19:03:46 GMT
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 by: Jim Easterbrook - Tue, 17 May 2022 19:03 UTC

On Tue, 17 May 2022 20:02:18 +0100, Nick Odell wrote:
>
> Felix appeared to be, IMO, "the acceptable face
> of the American Folk movement"

I didn't know it had one.
--
Jim <http://www.jim-easterbrook.me.uk/>
1959/1985? M B+ G+ A L- I- S- P-- CH0(p) Ar++ T+ H0 Q--- Sh0

Re: I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.

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From: G6J...@255soft.uk (J. P. Gilliver (John))
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 22:51:37 +0100
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 by: J. P. Gilliver (John - Tue, 17 May 2022 21:51 UTC

On Tue, 17 May 2022 at 20:02:18, Nick Odell
<nick@themusicworkshop.plus.com> wrote (my responses usually FOLLOW):
>On Tue, 17 May 2022 19:27:01 +0100, steve hague
><stevehague82@gmail.com> wrote:
[]
>>> P. S. I've just remembered that the song title doesn't have "clouds" -
>>> and I _do_ have an mp3 (and yes, by NM).
>>
>>NM? JM shirly.
>
>According to https://secondhandsongs.com/performance/2558 there are
>436 cover versions of Joni Mitchell's Both Sides Now and I'm guessing
>- not entirely without evidence - that John has the Nana Mouskouri
>version in mind.

Correct; it suits he gentle style. (Not to say that it also doesn't suit
some of the other 435!) Or rather her gentle style suits it. IMO of
course.

Unusually for Nana, I only have an English version ... (-: [Checking ...
I see she does have a French version.]
>
>If I hadn't known that Joni Mitchell had written it, I'd have guessed
>it had been by Julie Felix. Felix appeared to be, IMO, "the acceptable
>face of the American Folk movement" and always seemed to be on our
>television singing other people's songs.
>
>Nick

I don't (knowingly) know Ms. Felix.

Some people are good at singing others' songs - in the same way some are
better at writing lyrics to others' melodies. There are the obvious
pairings who did that from the start, like the Gershwins, and Rogers and
Hart/Hammerstein (and did Simon & Garfunkel mostly do that?), but there
are also cases where someone writes a melody which becomes known, and
then someone writes words that seem to fit it very well some time later;
lots of classical pieces (which in some cases make some people groan
when someone puts words to them), but sometimes others - Don Black comes
to mind as IMO a lyric writer whose words to other people's tunes work
better than those to his own tunes.

I've come across some quite startling classical pieces that have been
"worded" - the Valse Minute by Richard Stilgoe and Barbra Streisand (not
both at once!), Mozart 40, Aranjuez, Brahms' lullaby (at least two
sets), Beethoven 9 (not his words). The one that I think I've seen more
purists wince at than any other is Saint-Saens' organ symphony (not
least because it is in one case sung to a pig, though that wasn't by
those who first put the words to it).

The oddest I've come across to have words put to them are Chariots of
Fire, and the Luftwaffe March (a. k. a. Aces High) [Ron Goodwin]. That
last one had me puzzled for quite a while when I came across it sung, as
I knew the tune well but couldn't place it!
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

the plural of 'anecdote' is not 'evidence'. Professor Edzart Ernst, prudential
magazine, AUTUMN 2006, p. 13.

Re: I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.

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From: cli...@nowaytoday.co.uk (Clive Arthur)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 23:47:55 +0100
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 by: Clive Arthur - Tue, 17 May 2022 22:47 UTC

On 17/05/2022 19:27, steve hague wrote:
>
>> []
>> (What bugs me is how the media often get these things wrong. In this
>> case, other than not just explaining that it's just a lunar eclipse,
>> they didn't do too badly; while they mentioned that the moon was at a
>> closest point, they didn't say it was ridiculously large, as they
>> sometimes do [and with Mars in similar circumstances]. Maybe they're
>> learning.)
>>
>> P. S. I've just remembered that the song title doesn't have "clouds" -
>> and I _do_ have an mp3 (and yes, by NM).
>
> NM? JM shirly.

Mary Hopkin. Be still, my beating.

--
Cheers
Clive

Re: I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.

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From: nunc...@hotmail.co.uk (Sid Nuncius)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.
Date: Wed, 18 May 2022 06:23:39 +0100
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 by: Sid Nuncius - Wed, 18 May 2022 05:23 UTC

On 17/05/2022 22:51, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

> Some people are good at singing others' songs - in the same way some are
> better at writing lyrics to others' melodies. There are the obvious
> pairings who did that from the start, like the Gershwins, and Rogers and
> Hart/Hammerstein (and did Simon & Garfunkel mostly do that?)

No, Paul Simon wrote both music and lyrics - and used to get quite
annoyed that people assumed that Art Garfunkel was the lyricist. :o)

Other outstanding partnerships of musician and lyricist include Carole
King & Gerry Goffin, Jerry Lieber & Mike Stoller, Elton John & Bernie
Taupin...

(And as a footnote, I've heard quite a few versions of Both Sides Now,
including the Judy Collins hit which first alerted me to Joni Mitchell's
existence in 1969 and got me to buy JM's album Clouds, starting an
enduring love of her music. All the covers are pretty to one degree or
another - it's a pretty tune - but no-one invests it with that vital bit
of edge and power the way JM herself does, IMO. YMMV.)
--
Sid
(Make sure Matron is away when you reply)

Re: I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.

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From: spa...@labyrinth.freeuk.com (Penny)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.
Date: Wed, 18 May 2022 09:24:15 +0100
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 by: Penny - Wed, 18 May 2022 08:24 UTC

On Wed, 18 May 2022 06:23:39 +0100, Sid Nuncius <nuncius@hotmail.co.uk>
scrawled in the dust...

>On 17/05/2022 22:51, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
>
>> Some people are good at singing others' songs - in the same way some are
>> better at writing lyrics to others' melodies. There are the obvious
>> pairings who did that from the start, like the Gershwins, and Rogers and
>> Hart/Hammerstein (and did Simon & Garfunkel mostly do that?)
>
>No, Paul Simon wrote both music and lyrics - and used to get quite
>annoyed that people assumed that Art Garfunkel was the lyricist. :o)
>
>Other outstanding partnerships of musician and lyricist include Carole
>King & Gerry Goffin, Jerry Lieber & Mike Stoller, Elton John & Bernie
>Taupin...
>
>(And as a footnote, I've heard quite a few versions of Both Sides Now,
>including the Judy Collins hit which first alerted me to Joni Mitchell's
>existence in 1969 and got me to buy JM's album Clouds, starting an
>enduring love of her music. All the covers are pretty to one degree or
>another - it's a pretty tune - but no-one invests it with that vital bit
>of edge and power the way JM herself does, IMO. YMMV.)

Judy Collins (bro#1 gave me an album) was my gateway to Joni Mitchell too.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959

Re: I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.

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From: stevehag...@gmail.com (steve hague)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.
Date: Wed, 18 May 2022 09:57:02 +0100
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 by: steve hague - Wed, 18 May 2022 08:57 UTC

On 18/05/2022 06:23, Sid Nuncius wrote:
> On 17/05/2022 22:51, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
>
>> Some people are good at singing others' songs - in the same way some
>> are better at writing lyrics to others' melodies. There are the
>> obvious pairings who did that from the start, like the Gershwins, and
>> Rogers and Hart/Hammerstein (and did Simon & Garfunkel mostly do that?)
>
> No, Paul Simon wrote both music and lyrics - and used to get quite
> annoyed that people assumed that Art Garfunkel was the lyricist. :o)
>
> Other outstanding partnerships of musician and lyricist include Carole
> King & Gerry Goffin, Jerry Lieber & Mike Stoller, Elton John & Bernie
> Taupin...
>
> (And as a footnote, I've heard quite a few versions of Both Sides Now,
> including the Judy Collins hit which first alerted me to Joni Mitchell's
> existence in 1969 and got me to buy JM's album Clouds, starting an
> enduring love of her music.  All the covers are pretty to one degree or
> another - it's a pretty tune - but no-one invests it with that vital bit
> of edge and power the way JM herself does, IMO.  YMMV.)
I first heard JM on a juke box in a pub. It was her single "Woodstock",
so that dates it pretty closely. We bought all her albums as soon as
they were released untill the middle of her jazz period, at which point
we decided she'd lost her gift for melody, and her lyrics weren't
getting any better either. She was a great song writer for a number of
years.
Steve

Re: I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.

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From: linda...@ntlworld.com (Linda Fox)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.
Date: Wed, 18 May 2022 11:15:38 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Linda Fox - Wed, 18 May 2022 11:15 UTC

Tony Smith <agsmith578688@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tuesday, 17 May 2022 at 09:25:33 UTC+1, steve hague wrote:
>> It seems that when any spectacular astronomical event is due to be
>> visible from hereabouts, heavy clouds form. When the solar eclipse
>> happened in 1999, we lived in a village right in the middle of the path
>> of totality. The clouds rolled in several hours before the eclipse, and
>> rolled out again several hours later. Yesterday there was a blood moon
>> to be seen at dawn, and since I get up at 5 when on church duty, I was
>> looking forward to seeing it. What I saw was a leaden sky. I have never
>> seen the Perseids. Today we had a clear blue sky at sunrise.
>> Steve
>
> We went to Szeged in Hungary to see the 1999 eclipse. The day began
> cloudy but the hotelier said it was reported clearing from the west and
> lake Balaton was already clear. Se we drove off in that direction (we had
> brought the car) and it cleared up long before Balaton at a little
> lakeside camp site near Soltvadkert (spelling) and we saw it perfectly.
> The queues at the snack bars afterwards were ginirmous. My godfather in
> Saarbrücken however had a thunderstorm so the skies were doubly dark.
>

We went on a coach trip to Luxembourg to see it. Total cloud cover so we
never saw the sun. We did notice it getting darker and cooler and
afterwards the strange phenomenon of the light slowly rolling towards us,
not just all around us gradually growing brighter.

There's a large square park with main roads running round all four sides
and the park looks slightly sunken because of that. We were on a grass bank
beside one of the roads because the park was crammed full of people. At the
point of totality, the whole crowd in the park began to applaud, loud and
long. I wondered who they thought they were clapping. Well done, that God?
Well done, that moon? My thought was, well done those astronomers and
mathematicians, got it spot on again. I presume they can tell exactly when
there will be a total eclipse 1000 years from now and where it will be
visible from. Awesome stuff, physics. (this is from one who was allowed to
drop even General Science at the age of 15 in favour of extra music.
Science was what boys did) (fortunately so was music, as the extra music
was what threw TNMF and me into one another's paths. But he was also doing
science Big Time)

--
Linda ff

Re: I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.

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From: linda...@ntlworld.com (Linda Fox)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.
Date: Wed, 18 May 2022 11:15:39 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Linda Fox - Wed, 18 May 2022 11:15 UTC

Clive Arthur <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:
> On 17/05/2022 19:27, steve hague wrote:
>>
>>> []
>>> (What bugs me is how the media often get these things wrong. In this
>>> case, other than not just explaining that it's just a lunar eclipse,
>>> they didn't do too badly; while they mentioned that the moon was at a
>>> closest point, they didn't say it was ridiculously large, as they
>>> sometimes do [and with Mars in similar circumstances]. Maybe they're
>>> learning.)
>>>
>>> P. S. I've just remembered that the song title doesn't have "clouds" -
>>> and I _do_ have an mp3 (and yes, by NM).
>>
>> NM? JM shirly.
>
> Mary Hopkin. Be still, my beating.
>

I see your Mary Hopkin and raise you Judy Collins (I think)

--
Linda ff

Re: I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.

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From: toodle.p...@virginmedia.com (Mike McMillan)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.
Date: Wed, 18 May 2022 12:22:37 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Mike McMillan - Wed, 18 May 2022 12:22 UTC

Linda Fox <linda.ff@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> Clive Arthur <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 17/05/2022 19:27, steve hague wrote:
>>>
>>>> []
>>>> (What bugs me is how the media often get these things wrong. In this
>>>> case, other than not just explaining that it's just a lunar eclipse,
>>>> they didn't do too badly; while they mentioned that the moon was at a
>>>> closest point, they didn't say it was ridiculously large, as they
>>>> sometimes do [and with Mars in similar circumstances]. Maybe they're
>>>> learning.)
>>>>
>>>> P. S. I've just remembered that the song title doesn't have "clouds" -
>>>> and I _do_ have an mp3 (and yes, by NM).
>>>
>>> NM? JM shirly.
>>
>> Mary Hopkin. Be still, my beating.
>>
>
> I see your Mary Hopkin and raise you Judy Collins (I think)
>

Is that what one might call eclipsing their offer?

--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan

Re: I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.

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From: linda...@ntlworld.com (Linda Fox)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.
Date: Wed, 18 May 2022 12:40:17 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Linda Fox - Wed, 18 May 2022 12:40 UTC

J. P. Gilliver (John) <G6JPG@255soft.uk

but there
> are also cases where someone writes a melody which becomes known, and
> then someone writes words that seem to fit it very well some time later;
>
>
>Brahms' lullaby (at least two
> sets),

Brahms' Lullaby is in every collection of Brahms Lieder which I think
suggests it had words in the first place (Guten Abend, gut' Nacht). There
have probably been many sets if translations or grafted English words, but
I don't believe it started life as just a melody. Unless I've missed
something here.
--
Linda ff

Re: I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.

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From: G6J...@255soft.uk (J. P. Gilliver (John))
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.
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 by: J. P. Gilliver (John - Wed, 18 May 2022 13:17 UTC

On Wed, 18 May 2022 at 12:40:17, Linda Fox <linda.ff@ntlworld.com> wrote
(my responses usually FOLLOW):
>J. P. Gilliver (John) <G6JPG@255soft.uk
>
>but there
>> are also cases where someone writes a melody which becomes known, and
>> then someone writes words that seem to fit it very well some time later;
>>
>>
>>Brahms' lullaby (at least two
>> sets),
>
>Brahms' Lullaby is in every collection of Brahms Lieder which I think
>suggests it had words in the first place (Guten Abend, gut' Nacht). There
>have probably been many sets if translations or grafted English words, but
>I don't believe it started life as just a melody. Unless I've missed
>something here.

Now you mention those words, I think you're right, that the Wiegenlied
did have words. But the ones I've come across in the last month or so
are different ones, to the extent that I didn't immediately spot what it
was, though I knew I knew the tune. Let me look (warning - probably
going to be NM or MM):

This _is_ the Guten Abend, Gut' Nacht words (NM 1979):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeeprLBlfnA&list=PLz6zSAl04aHbMBrldOOey31TAJK5vXQgh&index=250

French (Parle-moi) - I don't _think_ it's a lullaby as such, though
fairly recognisable as such (NM 1979 again):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHDdUkHfc70

I _think_ this is the same _tune_ - it's certainly a Brahms Waltz: La
valse des regrets (MM, possibly
2018):https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9Up1mbElh4 - or in English, The
waltz of goodbye (MM again - rather painful, her English is IMO not
good!)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9Up1mbElh4

Nous, Comme Des Fous (Walzer D'Amour) [Brahms; change to 4_3 to view
properly] (MM 1982): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3sFw9AHUfI

And finally, an unusual instrumental version (from 57 seconds in, and
higher at 2'24) - from an unusual Hungarian lady I've recently
discovered who plays two instruments (one unusual) very well, sings
acceptably, and tap-dances!
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

I admire you British: when things get tough, you reach for humour. Not
firearms. - Sigourney (Susan) Weaver, RT 2017/11/4-10

Re: I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.

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From: G6J...@255soft.uk (J. P. Gilliver (John))
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.
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 by: J. P. Gilliver (John - Wed, 18 May 2022 13:26 UTC

On Wed, 18 May 2022 at 11:15:38, Linda Fox <linda.ff@ntlworld.com> wrote
(my responses usually FOLLOW):
>Tony Smith <agsmith578688@gmail.com> wrote:
[]
>> We went to Szeged in Hungary to see the 1999 eclipse. The day began
[]
>There's a large square park with main roads running round all four sides
>and the park looks slightly sunken because of that. We were on a grass bank
>beside one of the roads because the park was crammed full of people. At the
>point of totality, the whole crowd in the park began to applaud, loud and
>long. I wondered who they thought they were clapping. Well done, that God?
>Well done, that moon? My thought was, well done those astronomers and
>mathematicians, got it spot on again.

I would hope so, though I fear just general enthusiasm.

> I presume they can tell exactly when
>there will be a total eclipse 1000 years from now and where it will be
>visible from. Awesome stuff, physics.

It's "just" mathematics, or ridiculously thorough analysis of previous
calendars. I put the "just" in quotes, because I have considerable
admiration for those who _do_ the calculations. (Especially in times
past when without computers to do a lot of the donkey-work!)

> (this is from one who was allowed to
>drop even General Science at the age of 15 in favour of extra music.

I was going to be saddened that you had to (probably because of the
"what boys did" below making me think grr that you were misogynistically
forced to), then read the sentence again and see that it was your
choice.

>Science was what boys did) (fortunately so was music, as the extra music
>was what threw TNMF and me into one another's paths. But he was also doing
>science Big Time)
>
He was a Big Brain on such things. (At which point I realised who I was
replying to: lovely to see you back in the swing of UMRA.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

I admire you British: when things get tough, you reach for humour. Not
firearms. - Sigourney (Susan) Weaver, RT 2017/11/4-10

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From: vicky.ay...@gmail.com (Vicky)
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Subject: Re: I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.
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 by: Vicky - Wed, 18 May 2022 15:44 UTC

On Wed, 18 May 2022 12:40:17 -0000 (UTC), Linda Fox
<linda.ff@ntlworld.com> wrote:

>J. P. Gilliver (John) <G6JPG@255soft.uk
>
>but there
>> are also cases where someone writes a melody which becomes known, and
>> then someone writes words that seem to fit it very well some time later;
>>
>>
>>Brahms' lullaby (at least two
>> sets),
>
>Brahms' Lullaby is in every collection of Brahms Lieder which I think
>suggests it had words in the first place (Guten Abend, gut' Nacht). There
>have probably been many sets if translations or grafted English words, but
>I don't believe it started life as just a melody. Unless I've missed
>something here.

I remember it being sung to me as a child.

Re: I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.

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From: chris.mc...@ntlworld.com (Chris)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.
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 by: Chris - Wed, 18 May 2022 17:39 UTC

J. P. Gilliver (John) <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
> On Tue, 17 May 2022 at 20:02:18, Nick Odell
> <nick@themusicworkshop.plus.com> wrote (my responses usually FOLLOW):
>> On Tue, 17 May 2022 19:27:01 +0100, steve hague
>> <stevehague82@gmail.com> wrote:
> []
>>>> P. S. I've just remembered that the song title doesn't have "clouds" -
>>>> and I _do_ have an mp3 (and yes, by NM).
>>>
>>> NM? JM shirly.
>>
>> According to https://secondhandsongs.com/performance/2558 there are
>> 436 cover versions of Joni Mitchell's Both Sides Now and I'm guessing
>> - not entirely without evidence - that John has the Nana Mouskouri
>> version in mind.
>
> Correct; it suits he gentle style. (Not to say that it also doesn't suit
> some of the other 435!) Or rather her gentle style suits it. IMO of
> course.
>
> Unusually for Nana, I only have an English version ... (-: [Checking ...
> I see she does have a French version.]
>>
>> If I hadn't known that Joni Mitchell had written it, I'd have guessed
>> it had been by Julie Felix. Felix appeared to be, IMO, "the acceptable
>> face of the American Folk movement" and always seemed to be on our
>> television singing other people's songs.
>>
>> Nick
>
> I don't (knowingly) know Ms. Felix.
>
> Some people are good at singing others' songs - in the same way some are
> better at writing lyrics to others' melodies. There are the obvious
> pairings who did that from the start, like the Gershwins, and Rogers and
> Hart/Hammerstein (and did Simon & Garfunkel mostly do that?), but there
> are also cases where someone writes a melody which becomes known, and
> then someone writes words that seem to fit it very well some time later;
> lots of classical pieces (which in some cases make some people groan
> when someone puts words to them), but sometimes others - Don Black comes
> to mind as IMO a lyric writer whose words to other people's tunes work
> better than those to his own tunes.
>
> I've come across some quite startling classical pieces that have been
> "worded" - the Valse Minute by Richard Stilgoe and Barbra Streisand (not
> both at once!), Mozart 40, Aranjuez, Brahms' lullaby (at least two
> sets), Beethoven 9 (not his words). The one that I think I've seen more
> purists wince at than any other is Saint-Saens' organ symphony (not
> least because it is in one case sung to a pig, though that wasn't by
> those who first put the words to it).
>
> The oddest I've come across to have words put to them are Chariots of
> Fire, and the Luftwaffe March (a. k. a. Aces High) [Ron Goodwin]. That
> last one had me puzzled for quite a while when I came across it sung, as
> I knew the tune well but couldn't place it!

“We’re going to the zoo” (and we can stay all day) was written and sung by
her.

Sincerely Chris

Re: I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.

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 by: Kate B - Wed, 18 May 2022 17:56 UTC

On 17/05/2022 22:51, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

> I've come across some quite startling classical pieces that have been
> "worded" - the Valse Minute by Richard Stilgoe and Barbra Streisand (not
> both at once!), Mozart 40, Aranjuez, Brahms' lullaby (at least two
> sets), Beethoven 9 (not his words). The one that I think I've seen more
> purists wince at than any other is Saint-Saens' organ symphony (not
> least because it is in one case sung to a pig, though that wasn't by
> those who first put the words to it).

The best of all is the Mozart Horn Concerto

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHWnFJ4_61U

--
Kate B

Re: I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.

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From: G6J...@255soft.uk (J. P. Gilliver (John))
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.
Date: Wed, 18 May 2022 19:43:13 +0100
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 by: J. P. Gilliver (John - Wed, 18 May 2022 18:43 UTC

On Wed, 18 May 2022 at 18:56:44, Kate B <elvira@nospam.demon.co.uk>
wrote (my responses usually FOLLOW):
>On 17/05/2022 22:51, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
>
>> I've come across some quite startling classical pieces that have been
>>"worded" - the Valse Minute by Richard Stilgoe and Barbra Streisand
>>(not both at once!), Mozart 40, Aranjuez, Brahms' lullaby (at least
>>two sets), Beethoven 9 (not his words). The one that I think I've
>>seen more purists wince at than any other is Saint-Saens' organ
>>symphony (not least because it is in one case sung to a pig, though
>>that wasn't by those who first put the words to it).
>
>The best of all is the Mozart Horn Concerto
>
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHWnFJ4_61U
>
>
That 0 "Ill Wind" - is indeed the classic such. To get into the hall of
fame, they have to fit so well that you can't hear the tune without
hearing the words. The one that comes closest IMO is indeed the
above-mentioned Richard Stilgoe Minute Waltz; I can't hear it without
hearing his words. Unfortunately I can't find it on YouTube; the single
I have has it as the B side to Lilian Thompson; if I ever start
uploading to YT, that'll be one of them. He does Chopin's life story -
it starts "Chopin was born in Valazovy Vary" (or something like that)
and ends "no-one can expect to be become bronzed and healthy -
just/by lying/on/the Sands."
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

I remember a lot of questions on a vocalist forum about the problems singing
"There is a balm in Gilead" without making it sound like a security alert. -
Linda Fox in UMRA, 2010-11-19

Re: I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.

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From: rtilbury...@gmail.com (BrritSki)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.
Date: Wed, 18 May 2022 20:04:40 +0100
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 by: BrritSki - Wed, 18 May 2022 19:04 UTC

On 18/05/2022 18:39, Chris wrote:
> J. P. Gilliver (John) <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
>> On Tue, 17 May 2022 at 20:02:18, Nick Odell
>>
>>>
>>> If I hadn't known that Joni Mitchell had written it, I'd have guessed
>>> it had been by Julie Felix. Felix appeared to be, IMO, "the acceptable
>>> face of the American Folk movement" and always seemed to be on our
>>> television singing other people's songs.
>>>
>> I don't (knowingly) know Ms. Felix.
>>
> “We’re going to the zoo” (and we can stay all day) was written and sung by
> her.
>
She sang a version of it but it was written by Tom Paxton [kf] who I saw
live in a small upstairs room in a pub in Coventry when I was still at
school, so must have been 1964/5.

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