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aus+uk / uk.media.radio.archers / Re: I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.

SubjectAuthor
* I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.steve hague
+* I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Jim Easterbrook
|+- I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.steve hague
|+- I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Kate B
|`* I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.J. P. Gilliver (John)
| `* I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.steve hague
|  +* I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Nick Odell
|  |+- I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Jim Easterbrook
|  |`* I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.J. P. Gilliver (John)
|  | +* I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Sid Nuncius
|  | |+- I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Penny
|  | |`* I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.steve hague
|  | | `* I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Sid Nuncius
|  | |  +* I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.steve hague
|  | |  |`- I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Sid Nuncius
|  | |  `* I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.J. P. Gilliver (John)
|  | |   `* I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Chris
|  | |    +* I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.J. P. Gilliver (John)
|  | |    |`- I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Chris
|  | |    `- I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Mike Ruddock
|  | +* I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Linda Fox
|  | |+- I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.J. P. Gilliver (John)
|  | |`- I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Vicky
|  | +* I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Chris
|  | |+* I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.BrritSki
|  | ||+* I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Vicky
|  | |||`- I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Min
|  | ||`- I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Sid Nuncius
|  | |+* I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Min
|  | ||`- I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Chris
|  | |`* I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Linda Fox
|  | | `- I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Mike McMillan
|  | `* I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Kate B
|  |  +* I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.J. P. Gilliver (John)
|  |  |`* I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Vicky
|  |  | +* I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Nick Odell
|  |  | |`* I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.J. P. Gilliver (John)
|  |  | | `* I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Nick Odell
|  |  | |  `- I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.J. P. Gilliver (John)
|  |  | +* I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Jenny M Benson
|  |  | |`* I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Vicky
|  |  | | `* I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Jenny M Benson
|  |  | |  `* I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.J. P. Gilliver (John)
|  |  | |   `* I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Jim Easterbrook
|  |  | |    `* I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Sid Nuncius
|  |  | |     `- I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.J. P. Gilliver (John)
|  |  | `* I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Penny
|  |  |  +- I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.J. P. Gilliver (John)
|  |  |  +- I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Nick Odell
|  |  |  `- I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Vicky
|  |  `- I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Sid Nuncius
|  `* I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Clive Arthur
|   `* I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Linda Fox
|    `- I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Mike McMillan
`* I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Tony Smith
 `* I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Linda Fox
  +- I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.J. P. Gilliver (John)
  `- I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.Tony Smith

Pages:123
Re: I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.

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From: nunc...@hotmail.co.uk (Sid Nuncius)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.
Date: Thu, 19 May 2022 18:55:55 +0100
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 by: Sid Nuncius - Thu, 19 May 2022 17:55 UTC

On 19/05/2022 10:01, steve hague wrote:
> On 19/05/2022 07:36, Sid Nuncius wrote:
>> On 18/05/2022 09:57, steve hague wrote:
>>
>>> I first heard JM on a juke box in a pub. It was her single
>>> "Woodstock", so that dates it pretty closely. We bought all her
>>> albums as soon as they were released untill the middle of her jazz
>>> period, at which point we decided she'd lost her gift for melody, and
>>> her lyrics weren't getting any better either. She was a great song
>>> writer for a number of years.
>>
>> I did the same, but the jazz lost me.  She did make some fine albums
>> later, though.  Night Ride Home and Turbulent Indigo are up there, I
>> think.
>>
>> I agree about her songwriting. At her greatest she's almost unmatched,
>> I think.  Blue is one of the very finest albums ever made, IMO.
>>
> Blue was her masterpiece I think. Ladies of the Canyon was superb too,
> and her double live album "Miles of Isles" got plenty of turntable time
> here. We don't have that album now, and if we did it would be of no use.
> We don't have a turntable. Which album was "Cactus Tree" on?

It was the closing track on her first, Song To A Seagull. Loved that
album, too, and bought it very soon after Clouds, then the others as
they came out. (She lost me for a while in the Don Juan/Mingus period,
but I like Wild Things Run Fast and a good deal of her subsequent stuff.)

An umrat (I'm sorry, I can't remember who) remarked a while ago that
Joni Mitchell is one of the reasons he is glad to have lived when he
has. That sums it up for me.

--
Sid
(Make sure Matron is away when you reply)

Re: I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.

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From: chris.mc...@ntlworld.com (Chris)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.
Date: Thu, 19 May 2022 20:01:00 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Chris - Thu, 19 May 2022 20:01 UTC

Min <quiz.beagle@googlemail.com> wrote:
> On Wednesday, 18 May 2022 at 18:39:02 UTC+1, Chris wrote:
>> J. P. Gilliver (John) <G6...@255soft.uk> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 17 May 2022 at 20:02:18, Nick Odell
>>> <ni...@themusicworkshop.plus.com> wrote (my responses usually FOLLOW):
>>>> On Tue, 17 May 2022 19:27:01 +0100, steve hague
>>>> <steveh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> []
>>>>>> P. S. I've just remembered that the song title doesn't have "clouds" -
>>>>>> and I _do_ have an mp3 (and yes, by NM).
>>>>>
>>>>> NM? JM shirly.
>>>>
>>>> According to https://secondhandsongs.com/performance/2558 there are
>>>> 436 cover versions of Joni Mitchell's Both Sides Now and I'm guessing
>>>> - not entirely without evidence - that John has the Nana Mouskouri
>>>> version in mind.
>>>
>>> Correct; it suits he gentle style. (Not to say that it also doesn't suit
>>> some of the other 435!) Or rather her gentle style suits it. IMO of
>>> course.
>>>
>>> Unusually for Nana, I only have an English version ... (-: [Checking ...
>>> I see she does have a French version.]
>>>>
>>>> If I hadn't known that Joni Mitchell had written it, I'd have guessed
>>>> it had been by Julie Felix. Felix appeared to be, IMO, "the acceptable
>>>> face of the American Folk movement" and always seemed to be on our
>>>> television singing other people's songs.
>>>>
>>>> Nick
>>>
>>> I don't (knowingly) know Ms. Felix.
>>>
>>> Some people are good at singing others' songs - in the same way some are
>>> better at writing lyrics to others' melodies. There are the obvious
>>> pairings who did that from the start, like the Gershwins, and Rogers and
>>> Hart/Hammerstein (and did Simon & Garfunkel mostly do that?), but there
>>> are also cases where someone writes a melody which becomes known, and
>>> then someone writes words that seem to fit it very well some time later;
>>> lots of classical pieces (which in some cases make some people groan
>>> when someone puts words to them), but sometimes others - Don Black comes
>>> to mind as IMO a lyric writer whose words to other people's tunes work
>>> better than those to his own tunes.
>>>
>>> I've come across some quite startling classical pieces that have been
>>> "worded" - the Valse Minute by Richard Stilgoe and Barbra Streisand (not
>>> both at once!), Mozart 40, Aranjuez, Brahms' lullaby (at least two
>>> sets), Beethoven 9 (not his words). The one that I think I've seen more
>>> purists wince at than any other is Saint-Saens' organ symphony (not
>>> least because it is in one case sung to a pig, though that wasn't by
>>> those who first put the words to it).
>>>
>>> The oddest I've come across to have words put to them are Chariots of
>>> Fire, and the Luftwaffe March (a. k. a. Aces High) [Ron Goodwin]. That
>>> last one had me puzzled for quite a while when I came across it sung, as
>>> I knew the tune well but couldn't place it!
>> “We’re going to the zoo” (and we can stay all day) was written and sung by
>> her.
>>
>> Sincerely Chris
> Sorry, Chris - that was/is written by Tom Paxton.

I should *always* check my music facts. Thanks Min.

Mrs McT

Re: I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.

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From: chris.mc...@ntlworld.com (Chris)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.
Date: Thu, 19 May 2022 20:01:00 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Chris - Thu, 19 May 2022 20:01 UTC

J. P. Gilliver (John) <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
> On Thu, 19 May 2022 at 07:36:26, Sid Nuncius <nuncius@hotmail.co.uk>
> wrote (my responses usually FOLLOW):
>> On 18/05/2022 09:57, steve hague wrote:
> []
>>> albums as soon as they were released untill the middle of her jazz
> []
>> I did the same, but the jazz lost me. She did make some fine albums
> []
> Jazz, like opera (soprano at least), is - well, I was going to say an
> acquired taste, but at 62 I don't think I'm ever going to acquire it
> (them). I don't deny the skill of those able to improvise - it just
> doesn't appeal to me. A lot of singers/performers I really like, except
> for their jazz period - Judith Durham for example. (I do like what's
> sometimes said to be its predecessor, ragtime.) As for soprano opera, I
> really wish I _did_ like it, as many of its proponents seem to be really
> nice people - dame Kiri, for example, and Lesley Garrett (who comes
> closest to what I can enjoy; I like some of her work with the
> Schmutzdorfers). It's just a _sound_ I find unpleasant at its most
> forceful [which seems to be where it's supposed to be at its best].
> (Male opera I like if it's a good tune, though it's the tune rather than
> specifically the sound I enjoy - though a good Nessun Dorma or similar I
> can enjoy with everyone else.)
>
> But we're all different (cue from Life of Brian, "we're all
> individuals!" shouted in unison): I'm pleased other people _can_ enjoy
> these forms; on the whole, I like anyone enjoying something, as long as
> it's not hurting anyone else.

Nessum Dorma really upsets “Turandot” for me. One of my favourite operas.

Sincerely Chris

Re: I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.

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From: G6J...@255soft.uk (J. P. Gilliver (John))
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.
Date: Fri, 20 May 2022 01:46:40 +0100
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 by: J. P. Gilliver (John - Fri, 20 May 2022 00:46 UTC

On Thu, 19 May 2022 at 20:01:00, Chris <chris.mcmillan@ntlworld.com>
wrote (my responses usually FOLLOW):
>J. P. Gilliver (John) <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
[]
>> (Male opera I like if it's a good tune, though it's the tune rather than
>> specifically the sound I enjoy - though a good Nessun Dorma or similar I
>> can enjoy with everyone else.)
[]
>Nessum Dorma really upsets “Turandot” for me. One of my favourite operas.
>
>Sincerely Chris
>
Interesting. You obviously enjoy opera in general - as I said, we're all
different. Do you dislike Nessun Dorma for itself, or for what it has
become (a showpiece, and perhaps associated with football)?
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

There is no honour to be had in not knowing a thing that can be known -
Danny Baker

Re: I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.

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From: chris.mc...@ntlworld.com (Chris)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.
Date: Fri, 20 May 2022 07:46:43 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Chris - Fri, 20 May 2022 07:46 UTC

J. P. Gilliver (John) <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
> On Thu, 19 May 2022 at 20:01:00, Chris <chris.mcmillan@ntlworld.com>
> wrote (my responses usually FOLLOW):
>> J. P. Gilliver (John) <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
> []
>>> (Male opera I like if it's a good tune, though it's the tune rather than
>>> specifically the sound I enjoy - though a good Nessun Dorma or similar I
>>> can enjoy with everyone else.)
> []
>> Nessum Dorma really upsets “Turandot” for me. One of my favourite operas.
>>
>> Sincerely Chris
>>
> Interesting. You obviously enjoy opera in general - as I said, we're all
> different. Do you dislike Nessun Dorma for itself, or for what it has
> become (a showpiece, and perhaps associated with football)?

It distracts my thoughts knowing it’s such a huge part of something that is
nothing to do with the opera. There are plenty other bits in operas that
have taken on lives of their own but didn’t impinge on my consciousness
when they were being used outside opera. Plus I didn’t see “Turandot” live
(am dram, a neighbour sings with this society), performed when it was first
footied. It nagged at my brain all the way through and still does. It was
on R3 a few weeks ago from “The Met”.

Sincerely Chris

Re: I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.

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From: nunc...@hotmail.co.uk (Sid Nuncius)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.
Date: Fri, 20 May 2022 09:08:13 +0100
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In-Reply-To: <jemso8F853cU1@mid.individual.net>
 by: Sid Nuncius - Fri, 20 May 2022 08:08 UTC

On 19/05/2022 13:50, Jim Easterbrook wrote:

> KF by proxy: other half was one of Skellern's backing singers on You're a
> Lady, which is how she came to be on TOTP. This has caused her to burst
> into song in both a Belgian supermarket and a French hotel breakfast room
> when YaL was played as background music.

Outstanding! And a very fine KF, too!

--
Sid
(Make sure Matron is away when you reply)

Re: I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.

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From: ruddock...@btinternet.com (Mike Ruddock)
Newsgroups: uk.media.radio.archers
Subject: Re: I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.
Date: Fri, 20 May 2022 09:49:13 +0100
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 by: Mike Ruddock - Fri, 20 May 2022 08:49 UTC

On 19/05/2022 21:01, Chris wrote:
> J. P. Gilliver (John) <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
>> On Thu, 19 May 2022 at 07:36:26, Sid Nuncius <nuncius@hotmail.co.uk>
>> wrote (my responses usually FOLLOW):
>>> On 18/05/2022 09:57, steve hague wrote:
>> []
>>>> albums as soon as they were released untill the middle of her jazz
>> []
>>> I did the same, but the jazz lost me. She did make some fine albums
>> []
>> Jazz, like opera (soprano at least), is - well, I was going to say an
>> acquired taste, but at 62 I don't think I'm ever going to acquire it
>> (them). I don't deny the skill of those able to improvise - it just
>> doesn't appeal to me. A lot of singers/performers I really like, except
>> for their jazz period - Judith Durham for example. (I do like what's
>> sometimes said to be its predecessor, ragtime.) As for soprano opera, I
>> really wish I _did_ like it, as many of its proponents seem to be really
>> nice people - dame Kiri, for example, and Lesley Garrett (who comes
>> closest to what I can enjoy; I like some of her work with the
>> Schmutzdorfers). It's just a _sound_ I find unpleasant at its most
>> forceful [which seems to be where it's supposed to be at its best].
>> (Male opera I like if it's a good tune, though it's the tune rather than
>> specifically the sound I enjoy - though a good Nessun Dorma or similar I
>> can enjoy with everyone else.)
>>
>> But we're all different (cue from Life of Brian, "we're all
>> individuals!" shouted in unison): I'm pleased other people _can_ enjoy
>> these forms; on the whole, I like anyone enjoying something, as long as
>> it's not hurting anyone else.
>
> Nessum Dorma really upsets “Turandot” for me. One of my favourite operas.
>
> Sincerely Chris
>
It is flawed as generally performed. The big ending in which the soloist
holds the -cer- of vincero until he is about to collapse from anoxya is
written in the score as vin-(dotted quaver) - cer - (semiquaver) - o -
(semibreve). OK hold the -o- as long as you like, Paverotti (and all
other tenors since Jussi Bjorling) but the note before it you should
barely touch.

Mike Ruddock

Re: I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.

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From: G6J...@255soft.uk (J. P. Gilliver (John))
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Subject: Re: I've looked at clouds from both sides now. Completely OT.
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 by: J. P. Gilliver (John - Fri, 20 May 2022 13:19 UTC

On Fri, 20 May 2022 at 09:08:13, Sid Nuncius <nuncius@hotmail.co.uk>
wrote (my responses usually FOLLOW):
>On 19/05/2022 13:50, Jim Easterbrook wrote:
>
>> KF by proxy: other half was one of Skellern's backing singers on You're a
>> Lady, which is how she came to be on TOTP. This has caused her to burst
>> into song in both a Belgian supermarket and a French hotel breakfast room
>> when YaL was played as background music.
>
>Outstanding! And a very fine KF, too!
>
I hope her (or your if you were with her) Flemish/French was up to
explaining why, and that if so, she got a round of applause. I would
have, or at least made appreciative mumblings.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

A professor is one who talks in someone else's sleep.

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