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aus+uk / uk.comp.sys.mac / Re: [OT] r/ClassicUsenet

SubjectAuthor
* [OT] r/ClassicUsenetMark
+* [OT] r/ClassicUsenetAlan B
|`* [OT] r/ClassicUsenetMark
| +- [OT] r/ClassicUsenetAlan B
| `* [OT] r/ClassicUsenetAlan B
|  +- [OT] r/ClassicUsenetMark
|  `* [OT] r/ClassicUsenetTheo
|   `* [OT] r/ClassicUsenetAlan B
|    `* [OT] r/ClassicUsenetAlan B
|     `* [OT] r/ClassicUsenetTheo
|      `* [OT] r/ClassicUsenetAlan B
|       `* [OT] r/ClassicUsenetTheo
|        `* [OT] r/ClassicUsenetAlan B
|         `* [OT] r/ClassicUsenetAlan B
|          `* [OT] r/ClassicUsenetTheo
|           `- [OT] r/ClassicUsenetAlan B
+* [OT] r/ClassicUsenetAlan B
|`* [OT] r/ClassicUsenetTheo
| +* [OT] r/ClassicUsenetAlan B
| |`- [OT] r/ClassicUsenetJustin Case
| `* [OT] r/ClassicUsenetGraham J
|  +- [OT] r/ClassicUsenetDavid Kennedy
|  +- [OT] r/ClassicUsenetRay
|  `* [OT] r/ClassicUsenetAlan B
|   `* [OT] r/ClassicUsenetDavid Kennedy
|    `* [OT] r/ClassicUsenetGraham J
|     +* [OT] r/ClassicUsenetnospam
|     |+- [OT] r/ClassicUsenetDavid Kennedy
|     |`* [OT] r/ClassicUsenetGraeme Wall
|     | `* [OT] r/ClassicUsenetDavid Kennedy
|     |  +* [OT] r/ClassicUsenetnospam
|     |  |`* [OT] r/ClassicUsenetDavid Kennedy
|     |  | +* [OT] r/ClassicUsenetGraeme Wall
|     |  | |`- [OT] r/ClassicUsenetDavid Kennedy
|     |  | `* [OT] r/ClassicUsenetAlan B
|     |  |  `- [OT] r/ClassicUsenetDavid Kennedy
|     |  `* [OT] r/ClassicUsenetAlan B
|     |   `- [OT] r/ClassicUsenetnospam
|     +- [OT] r/ClassicUsenetDavid Kennedy
|     `* [OT] r/ClassicUsenetRay
|      `- [OT] r/ClassicUsenetDavid Kennedy
`- [OT] r/ClassicUsenetAlan B

Pages:12
[OT] r/ClassicUsenet

<t4eaki$1hva$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=8225&group=uk.comp.sys.mac#8225

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From: captain....@gmail.com (Mark)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.sys.mac
Subject: [OT] r/ClassicUsenet
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 15:08:02 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID: <t4eaki$1hva$1@gioia.aioe.org>
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 by: Mark - Thu, 28 Apr 2022 15:08 UTC

New sub over on Reddit.

“The goal of this subreddit is to build a community on Reddit and to foster
the small community that exists already on Usenet. Also, visit us at
alt.fan.usenet.”

Bit quiet at the mo.

--
Cheers ... Mark

Re: [OT] r/ClassicUsenet

<t4ec7q$aka$1@alanrichardbarker.eternal-september.org>

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https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=8226&group=uk.comp.sys.mac#8226

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From: alanrich...@nospamgmail.com.here (Alan B)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.sys.mac
Subject: Re: [OT] r/ClassicUsenet
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 15:35:22 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Grumpy Old Men
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 by: Alan B - Thu, 28 Apr 2022 15:35 UTC

Mark <captain.black@gmail.com> wrote:
> New sub over on Reddit.
>
> “The goal of this subreddit is to build a community on Reddit and to foster
> the small community that exists already on Usenet. Also, visit us at
> alt.fan.usenet.”
>
> Bit quiet at the mo.

I think I’ll steer clear as I’ve no wish to expose my Reddit Id to you know
who. Alan B was already taken so I’ve had to use something else.

--
Cheers, Alan

Re: [OT] r/ClassicUsenet

<t4eige$1gh5$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: captain....@gmail.com (Mark)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.sys.mac
Subject: Re: [OT] r/ClassicUsenet
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 17:22:22 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID: <t4eige$1gh5$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <t4eaki$1hva$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<t4ec7q$aka$1@alanrichardbarker.eternal-september.org>
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 by: Mark - Thu, 28 Apr 2022 17:22 UTC

Alan B <alanrichardbarker@nospamgmail.com.here> wrote:
> Mark <captain.black@gmail.com> wrote:
>> New sub over on Reddit.
>>
>> “The goal of this subreddit is to build a community on Reddit and to foster
>> the small community that exists already on Usenet. Also, visit us at
>> alt.fan.usenet.”
>>
>> Bit quiet at the mo.
>
> I think I’ll steer clear as I’ve no wish to expose my Reddit Id to you know
> who. Alan B was already taken so I’ve had to use something else.
>

I’ve a couple of alts over there & jump back and forth between them.
Remarkably easy with Apollo. Doubt I’ll be posting there any time soon
though.

--
Cheers ... Mark

Re: [OT] r/ClassicUsenet

<t4g0s7$kuk$1@alanrichardbarker.eternal-september.org>

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From: alanrich...@nospamgmail.com.here (Alan B)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.sys.mac
Subject: Re: [OT] r/ClassicUsenet
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2022 06:33:43 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Grumpy Old Men
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <t4g0s7$kuk$1@alanrichardbarker.eternal-september.org>
References: <t4eaki$1hva$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<t4ec7q$aka$1@alanrichardbarker.eternal-september.org>
<t4eige$1gh5$1@gioia.aioe.org>
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logging-data="21460"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18/xtj/2Smww6PeBI2KpF8vLJ0h/NV8U8nb9eawOqoiKg=="
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 by: Alan B - Fri, 29 Apr 2022 06:33 UTC

Mark <captain.black@gmail.com> wrote:
> Alan B <alanrichardbarker@nospamgmail.com.here> wrote:
>> Mark <captain.black@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> New sub over on Reddit.
>>>
>>> “The goal of this subreddit is to build a community on Reddit and to foster
>>> the small community that exists already on Usenet. Also, visit us at
>>> alt.fan.usenet.”
>>>
>>> Bit quiet at the mo.
>>
>> I think I’ll steer clear as I’ve no wish to expose my Reddit Id to you know
>> who. Alan B was already taken so I’ve had to use something else.
>>
>
> I’ve a couple of alts over there & jump back and forth between them.
> Remarkably easy with Apollo. Doubt I’ll be posting there any time soon
> though.

I agree Apollo is easier to use than the official app.

--
Cheers, Alan

Re: [OT] r/ClassicUsenet

<t4g98b$g4h$1@alanrichardbarker.eternal-september.org>

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From: alanrich...@nospamgmail.com.here (Alan B)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.sys.mac
Subject: Re: [OT] r/ClassicUsenet
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2022 08:56:43 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Grumpy Old Men
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <t4g98b$g4h$1@alanrichardbarker.eternal-september.org>
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logging-data="16529"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/bxtb0XasoNEiBVAprlROQCATXpRU1gCHdsvpsqR2yog=="
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 by: Alan B - Fri, 29 Apr 2022 08:56 UTC

Mark <captain.black@gmail.com> wrote:
> Alan B <alanrichardbarker@nospamgmail.com.here> wrote:
>> Mark <captain.black@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> New sub over on Reddit.
>>>
>>> “The goal of this subreddit is to build a community on Reddit and to foster
>>> the small community that exists already on Usenet. Also, visit us at
>>> alt.fan.usenet.”
>>>
>>> Bit quiet at the mo.
>>
>> I think I’ll steer clear as I’ve no wish to expose my Reddit Id to you know
>> who. Alan B was already taken so I’ve had to use something else.
>>
>
> I’ve a couple of alts over there & jump back and forth between them.
> Remarkably easy with Apollo. Doubt I’ll be posting there any time soon
> though.

This reddit-nntp gateway looks interesting. If I’ve nothing better to do, I
might even try to set it up!

<https://github.com/taviso/nntpit#readme>

--
Cheers, Alan

Re: [OT] r/ClassicUsenet

<t4gah0$13bu$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: captain....@gmail.com (Mark)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.sys.mac
Subject: Re: [OT] r/ClassicUsenet
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2022 10:18:24 +0100
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID: <t4gah0$13bu$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <t4eaki$1hva$1@gioia.aioe.org> <t4ec7q$aka$1@alanrichardbarker.eternal-september.org> <t4eige$1gh5$1@gioia.aioe.org> <t4g98b$g4h$1@alanrichardbarker.eternal-september.org>
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 by: Mark - Fri, 29 Apr 2022 09:18 UTC

On 2022-04-29 08:56:43 +0000, Alan B
<alanrichardbarker@nospamgmail.com.here> said:

> Mark <captain.black@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Alan B <alanrichardbarker@nospamgmail.com.here> wrote:
>>> Mark <captain.black@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> New sub over on Reddit.
>>>>
>>>> “The goal of this subreddit is to build a community on Reddit and to foster
>>>> the small community that exists already on Usenet. Also, visit us at
>>>> alt.fan.usenet.”
>>>>
>>>> Bit quiet at the mo.
>>>
>>> I think I’ll steer clear as I’ve no wish to expose my Reddit Id to you know
>>> who. Alan B was already taken so I’ve had to use something else.
>>>
>>
>> I’ve a couple of alts over there & jump back and forth between them.
>> Remarkably easy with Apollo. Doubt I’ll be posting there any time soon
>> though.
>
> This reddit-nntp gateway looks interesting. If I’ve nothing better to do, I
> might even try to set it up!
>
> <https://github.com/taviso/nntpit#readme>

Well look at that! Looks fascnating but waaaaaaaaaayyy over my head :)
--
Cheers ... Mark

Re: [OT] r/ClassicUsenet

<Ndx*gVUMy@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>

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From: theom+n...@chiark.greenend.org.uk (Theo)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.sys.mac
Subject: Re: [OT] r/ClassicUsenet
Date: 29 Apr 2022 10:25:47 +0100 (BST)
Organization: University of Cambridge, England
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 by: Theo - Fri, 29 Apr 2022 09:25 UTC

Alan B <alanrichardbarker@nospamgmail.com.here> wrote:
> This reddit-nntp gateway looks interesting. If I’ve nothing better to do, I
> might even try to set it up!
>
> <https://github.com/taviso/nntpit#readme>

Interesting. I had a spare minute, so I gave it a go. The main caveat
is it only implements the bare minimum of what slrn needs to function. I
tried it with tin, and first up it wasn't reporting the 'READER' option in
its response to the CAPABILITIES command, so tin refused to start. That was
a one-line fix, but then it doesn't return a list of available newsgroups,
so tin still failed to start.

I'm sure those things are easily fixable, but that was the end of my minute.

Theo

Re: [OT] r/ClassicUsenet

<t4gf09$s8b$1@alanrichardbarker.eternal-september.org>

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From: alanrich...@nospamgmail.com.here (Alan B)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.sys.mac
Subject: Re: [OT] r/ClassicUsenet
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2022 10:34:50 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Grumpy Old Men
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 by: Alan B - Fri, 29 Apr 2022 10:34 UTC

Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> Alan B <alanrichardbarker@nospamgmail.com.here> wrote:
>> This reddit-nntp gateway looks interesting. If I’ve nothing better to do, I
>> might even try to set it up!
>>
>> <https://github.com/taviso/nntpit#readme>
>
> Interesting. I had a spare minute, so I gave it a go. The main caveat
> is it only implements the bare minimum of what slrn needs to function. I
> tried it with tin, and first up it wasn't reporting the 'READER' option in
> its response to the CAPABILITIES command, so tin refused to start. That was
> a one-line fix, but then it doesn't return a list of available newsgroups,
> so tin still failed to start.
>
> I'm sure those things are easily fixable, but that was the end of my minute.

I will use slrn on Linux initially.

--
Cheers, Alan

Re: [OT] r/ClassicUsenet

<t4h7q8$co8$1@alanrichardbarker.eternal-september.org>

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From: alanrich...@nospamgmail.com.here (Alan B)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.sys.mac
Subject: Re: [OT] r/ClassicUsenet
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2022 17:38:16 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Grumpy Old Men
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 by: Alan B - Fri, 29 Apr 2022 17:38 UTC

Alan B <alanrichardbarker@nospamgmail.com.here> wrote:
> Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>> Alan B <alanrichardbarker@nospamgmail.com.here> wrote:
>>> This reddit-nntp gateway looks interesting. If I’ve nothing better to do, I
>>> might even try to set it up!
>>>
>>> <https://github.com/taviso/nntpit#readme>
>>
>> Interesting. I had a spare minute, so I gave it a go. The main caveat
>> is it only implements the bare minimum of what slrn needs to function. I
>> tried it with tin, and first up it wasn't reporting the 'READER' option in
>> its response to the CAPABILITIES command, so tin refused to start. That was
>> a one-line fix, but then it doesn't return a list of available newsgroups,
>> so tin still failed to start.
>>
>> I'm sure those things are easily fixable, but that was the end of my minute.
>
> I will use slrn on Linux initially.

Grrrr. Too many dependencies to sort out for a quick s/w build and go. So
I’m not going to proceed for now especially for something I suspect I would
rarely use. Anyway the weather is good and it’s a holiday weekend ;)

--
Cheers, Alan

Re: [OT] r/ClassicUsenet

<Mdx*SCXMy@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>

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From: theom+n...@chiark.greenend.org.uk (Theo)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.sys.mac
Subject: Re: [OT] r/ClassicUsenet
Date: 29 Apr 2022 22:46:26 +0100 (BST)
Organization: University of Cambridge, England
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Originator: theom@chiark.greenend.org.uk ([212.13.197.229])
 by: Theo - Fri, 29 Apr 2022 21:46 UTC

Alan B <alanrichardbarker@nospamgmail.com.here> wrote:
> Grrrr. Too many dependencies to sort out for a quick s/w build and go. So
> I’m not going to proceed for now especially for something I suspect I would
> rarely use. Anyway the weather is good and it’s a holiday weekend ;)

I had slightly more than a minute and I added support for tin, which also
works for Thunderbird:

https://github.com/taviso/nntpit/pull/16

I'm building on Ubuntu, but for Homebrew try the dependencies (untested):
libev glib json-c curl openssl

Theo

Re: [OT] r/ClassicUsenet

<t4iul8$55b$1@alanrichardbarker.eternal-september.org>

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From: alanrich...@nospamgmail.com.here (Alan B)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.sys.mac
Subject: Re: [OT] r/ClassicUsenet
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2022 09:14:17 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Grumpy Old Men
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 by: Alan B - Sat, 30 Apr 2022 09:14 UTC

Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> Alan B <alanrichardbarker@nospamgmail.com.here> wrote:
>> Grrrr. Too many dependencies to sort out for a quick s/w build and go. So
>> I’m not going to proceed for now especially for something I suspect I would
>> rarely use. Anyway the weather is good and it’s a holiday weekend ;)
>
> I had slightly more than a minute and I added support for tin, which also
> works for Thunderbird:
>
> https://github.com/taviso/nntpit/pull/16
>
> I'm building on Ubuntu, but for Homebrew try the dependencies (untested):
> libev glib json-c curl openssl

I’m using Ubuntu Studio and I’ve managed to resolve the package dependency
issues without resorting to Homebrew. nntpit is thus successfully built
but I just need to configure slrn now. If I get nowhere with that I’ll try
T’bird which I’ve not used for a while.

--
Cheers, Alan

Re: [OT] r/ClassicUsenet

<Kdx*qh0My@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>

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From: theom+n...@chiark.greenend.org.uk (Theo)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.sys.mac
Subject: Re: [OT] r/ClassicUsenet
Date: 30 Apr 2022 10:54:08 +0100 (BST)
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Originator: theom@chiark.greenend.org.uk ([212.13.197.229])
 by: Theo - Sat, 30 Apr 2022 09:54 UTC

Alan B <alanrichardbarker@nospamgmail.com.here> wrote:
> Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> > Alan B <alanrichardbarker@nospamgmail.com.here> wrote:
> >> Grrrr. Too many dependencies to sort out for a quick s/w build and go. So
> >> I’m not going to proceed for now especially for something I suspect I would
> >> rarely use. Anyway the weather is good and it’s a holiday weekend ;)
> >
> > I had slightly more than a minute and I added support for tin, which also
> > works for Thunderbird:
> >
> > https://github.com/taviso/nntpit/pull/16
> >
> > I'm building on Ubuntu, but for Homebrew try the dependencies (untested):
> > libev glib json-c curl openssl
>
> I’m using Ubuntu Studio and I’ve managed to resolve the package dependency
> issues without resorting to Homebrew. nntpit is thus successfully built
> but I just need to configure slrn now. If I get nowhere with that I’ll try
> T’bird which I’ve not used for a while.

If you're using Thunderbird you might want to clone my fork:
https://github.com/caliston/nntpit

I've just written some notes in the README about how to set it up with
Thunderbird.

Theo

Re: [OT] r/ClassicUsenet

<t4j5gu$msi$1@alanrichardbarker.eternal-september.org>

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From: alanrich...@nospamgmail.com.here (Alan B)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.sys.mac
Subject: Re: [OT] r/ClassicUsenet
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2022 11:11:26 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Grumpy Old Men
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 by: Alan B - Sat, 30 Apr 2022 11:11 UTC

Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> Alan B <alanrichardbarker@nospamgmail.com.here> wrote:
>> Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>>> Alan B <alanrichardbarker@nospamgmail.com.here> wrote:
>>>> Grrrr. Too many dependencies to sort out for a quick s/w build and go. So
>>>> I’m not going to proceed for now especially for something I suspect I would
>>>> rarely use. Anyway the weather is good and it’s a holiday weekend ;)
>>>
>>> I had slightly more than a minute and I added support for tin, which also
>>> works for Thunderbird:
>>>
>>> https://github.com/taviso/nntpit/pull/16
>>>
>>> I'm building on Ubuntu, but for Homebrew try the dependencies (untested):
>>> libev glib json-c curl openssl
>>
>> I’m using Ubuntu Studio and I’ve managed to resolve the package dependency
>> issues without resorting to Homebrew. nntpit is thus successfully built
>> but I just need to configure slrn now. If I get nowhere with that I’ll try
>> T’bird which I’ve not used for a while.
>
> If you're using Thunderbird you might want to clone my fork:
> https://github.com/caliston/nntpit
>
> I've just written some notes in the README about how to set it up with
> Thunderbird.

Thanks I’ll set up Thunderbird later. I have now got slrn configured by
hacking my existing .slrnrc file and can now read subs :)

--
Cheers, Alan

Re: [OT] r/ClassicUsenet

<t4ji1g$oet$1@alanrichardbarker.eternal-september.org>

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From: alanrich...@nospamgmail.com.here (Alan B)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.sys.mac
Subject: Re: [OT] r/ClassicUsenet
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2022 14:45:04 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Grumpy Old Men
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 by: Alan B - Sat, 30 Apr 2022 14:45 UTC

On 2022-04-30, Alan B <alanrichardbarker@nospamgmail.com.here> wrote:
> Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>> Alan B <alanrichardbarker@nospamgmail.com.here> wrote:
>>> Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>>>> Alan B <alanrichardbarker@nospamgmail.com.here> wrote:
>>>>> Grrrr. Too many dependencies to sort out for a quick s/w build and go. So
>>>>> I’m not going to proceed for now especially for something I suspect I would
>>>>> rarely use. Anyway the weather is good and it’s a holiday weekend ;)
>>>>
>>>> I had slightly more than a minute and I added support for tin, which also
>>>> works for Thunderbird:
>>>>
>>>> https://github.com/taviso/nntpit/pull/16
>>>>
>>>> I'm building on Ubuntu, but for Homebrew try the dependencies (untested):
>>>> libev glib json-c curl openssl
>>>
>>> I’m using Ubuntu Studio and I’ve managed to resolve the package dependency
>>> issues without resorting to Homebrew. nntpit is thus successfully built
>>> but I just need to configure slrn now. If I get nowhere with that I’ll try
>>> T’bird which I’ve not used for a while.
>>
>> If you're using Thunderbird you might want to clone my fork:
>> https://github.com/caliston/nntpit
>>
>> I've just written some notes in the README about how to set it up with
>> Thunderbird.
>
> Thanks I’ll set up Thunderbird later. I have now got slrn configured by
> hacking my existing .slrnrc file and can now read subs :)

Yes, Thunderbird settings working - thanks :)

--
Cheers, Alan

Re: [OT] r/ClassicUsenet

<dKk*uq1My@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>

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From: theom+n...@chiark.greenend.org.uk (Theo)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.sys.mac
Subject: Re: [OT] r/ClassicUsenet
Date: 30 Apr 2022 16:05:55 +0100 (BST)
Organization: University of Cambridge, England
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Originator: theom@chiark.greenend.org.uk ([212.13.197.229])
 by: Theo - Sat, 30 Apr 2022 15:05 UTC

Alan B <alanrichardbarker@nospamgmail.com.here> wrote:
> Yes, Thunderbird settings working - thanks :)

Good to know :-)

The author has now merged my pull request, so probably best to use the
upstream repo from now on:
https://github.com/taviso/nntpit

Re: [OT] r/ClassicUsenet

<t4onb0$48c$1@alanrichardbarker.eternal-september.org>

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From: alanrich...@nospamgmail.com.here (Alan B)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.sys.mac
Subject: Re: [OT] r/ClassicUsenet
Date: Mon, 2 May 2022 13:46:08 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Alan B - Mon, 2 May 2022 13:46 UTC

On 30 Apr 2022 at 16:05:55 BST, "Theo" <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
wrote:

> Alan B <alanrichardbarker@nospamgmail.com.here> wrote:
>> Yes, Thunderbird settings working - thanks :)
>
> Good to know :-)
>
> The author has now merged my pull request, so probably best to use the
> upstream repo from now on:
> https://github.com/taviso/nntpit

On macOS using brew I also needed to install the following packages:

autoconf
aclocal
glib **
gtk
** glib install may not be needed as the gtk install probably includes gtk-2.0
installation?

For Thunderbird to work on Linux and macOS, I also needed to setup config
files (spool, newsrc, reddit, reddit.time) in home directory as a one-off
operation using instructions for using slrn.

--
Cheers, Alan

Re: [OT] r/ClassicUsenet

<t5e1bg$nou$1@alanrichardbarker.eternal-september.org>

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From: alanrich...@nospamgmail.com.here (Alan B)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.sys.mac
Subject: Re: [OT] r/ClassicUsenet
Date: Tue, 10 May 2022 15:45:52 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Grumpy Old Men
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 by: Alan B - Tue, 10 May 2022 15:45 UTC

On 2022-04-28, Mark <captain.black@gmail.com> wrote:
> New sub over on Reddit.
>
> “The goal of this subreddit is to build a community on Reddit and to foster
> the small community that exists already on Usenet. Also, visit us at
> alt.fan.usenet.”
>
> Bit quiet at the mo.

I wish the Big 8 group had a bit more bite (byte?) and could find a
way of dealing with all the crud we get on usenet from trolls, spammers,
bots etc. Perhaps we need to rattle their cage a bit more? One way
might be to explore the possibility of converting groups to moderation.
That might involve the overhead of appointing full-time moderators,
although there are ways around that.

<https://www.big-8.org/wiki/Main_Page>

--
Cheers, Alan

Re: [OT] r/ClassicUsenet

<7cx*nHUNy@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>

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From: theom+n...@chiark.greenend.org.uk (Theo)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.sys.mac
Subject: Re: [OT] r/ClassicUsenet
Date: 11 May 2022 12:42:47 +0100 (BST)
Organization: University of Cambridge, England
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 by: Theo - Wed, 11 May 2022 11:42 UTC

Alan B <alanrichardbarker@nospamgmail.com.here> wrote:
> I wish the Big 8 group had a bit more bite (byte?) and could find a
> way of dealing with all the crud we get on usenet from trolls, spammers,
> bots etc. Perhaps we need to rattle their cage a bit more? One way
> might be to explore the possibility of converting groups to moderation.
> That might involve the overhead of appointing full-time moderators,
> although there are ways around that.

A critical flaw in the design of Usenet is that it's not possible to do
post-hoc moderation. Once a post is published it can't be removed, even on
a moderated group. (There are 'cancels' but they are widely abused and in
practice don't work). That means moderators need to pre-screen messages,
which makes a light-touch moderation regime (let people post freely, only
step in if something crosses the line or is reported) impossible.

The best you can get is a scheme where there's a whitelist of 'trusted'
posters that have a fast-track, and new or recalcitrant posters are on a
'slow' path that needs to be checked by a human first. It's still a big ask
of the moderators since they need to approve quickly otherwise discussion
proceeds quickly amongst the in-crowd and those on the slow path get left
behind.

You also can't (in practice) convert unmoderated to moderated groups, you
can only create new groups. Which means that you need to convince people to
post in the new group and abandon the old one (which usually fills up with
trolls).

The B8MB is well aware of these issues, but there's no simple solutions.
One thing that would help is some better moderation software, given the
current tools are archaic and painful to use. There was recently a
discussion in news.groups.proposals (I think it was) about that, but
ultimately nobody has yet taken on that project.

Theo

Re: [OT] r/ClassicUsenet

<t5g7rs$t11$1@alanrichardbarker.eternal-september.org>

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From: alanrich...@nospamgmail.com.here (Alan B)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.sys.mac
Subject: Re: [OT] r/ClassicUsenet
Date: Wed, 11 May 2022 11:49:16 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Alan B - Wed, 11 May 2022 11:49 UTC

Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> Alan B <alanrichardbarker@nospamgmail.com.here> wrote:
>> I wish the Big 8 group had a bit more bite (byte?) and could find a
>> way of dealing with all the crud we get on usenet from trolls, spammers,
>> bots etc. Perhaps we need to rattle their cage a bit more? One way
>> might be to explore the possibility of converting groups to moderation.
>> That might involve the overhead of appointing full-time moderators,
>> although there are ways around that.
>
> A critical flaw in the design of Usenet is that it's not possible to do
> post-hoc moderation. Once a post is published it can't be removed, even on
> a moderated group. (There are 'cancels' but they are widely abused and in
> practice don't work). That means moderators need to pre-screen messages,
> which makes a light-touch moderation regime (let people post freely, only
> step in if something crosses the line or is reported) impossible.
>
> The best you can get is a scheme where there's a whitelist of 'trusted'
> posters that have a fast-track, and new or recalcitrant posters are on a
> 'slow' path that needs to be checked by a human first. It's still a big ask
> of the moderators since they need to approve quickly otherwise discussion
> proceeds quickly amongst the in-crowd and those on the slow path get left
> behind.
>
> You also can't (in practice) convert unmoderated to moderated groups, you
> can only create new groups. Which means that you need to convince people to
> post in the new group and abandon the old one (which usually fills up with
> trolls).
>
> The B8MB is well aware of these issues, but there's no simple solutions.
> One thing that would help is some better moderation software, given the
> current tools are archaic and painful to use. There was recently a
> discussion in news.groups.proposals (I think it was) about that, but
> ultimately nobody has yet taken on that project.

My post was more in hope rather than expectation. I can’t see anything
changing in the short or medium term. So we’ll just have to keep ignoring
or filtering out the cack :(

--
Cheers, Alan

Re: [OT] r/ClassicUsenet

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From: fre...@[127.0.0.1] (Justin Case)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.sys.mac
Subject: Re: [OT] r/ClassicUsenet
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 by: Justin Case - Wed, 11 May 2022 14:25 UTC

In message <t5g7rs$t11$1@alanrichardbarker.eternal-september.org>
Alan B <alanrichardbarker@nospamgmail.com.here> wrote:

> Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> > Alan B <alanrichardbarker@nospamgmail.com.here> wrote:
> > > I wish the Big 8 group had a bit more bite (byte?) and could find a
> > > way of dealing with all the crud we get on usenet from trolls,
> > > spammers, bots etc. Perhaps we need to rattle their cage a bit more?
> > > One way might be to explore the possibility of converting groups to
> > > moderation. That might involve the overhead of appointing full-time
> > > moderators, although there are ways around that.
> >
> > A critical flaw in the design of Usenet is that it's not possible to
> > do post-hoc moderation.
[snip]

> My post was more in hope rather than expectation. I can’t see anything
> changing in the short or medium term. So we’ll just have to keep
> ignoring or filtering out the cack :(

Seems like a very quiet, civilised group here. Ah yes, filters :-)

The errant posters here make it a really trivial activity given that they
mostly advertise.

Is the subject really OT, or is conversation about a newsgroup off topic
for the newsgroup? (Rhetorical)

--
Fred

Re: [OT] r/ClassicUsenet

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Subject: Re: [OT] r/ClassicUsenet
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 by: Graham J - Wed, 11 May 2022 16:50 UTC

Theo wrote:

[snip]

A more general problem is that newsgroups and social media sites are
actually all forms of publishing; except that they are apparently not
subject to the traditional rules of publishing.

You can stand on Speakers' Corner and say virtually whatever you like
provided that you do not provoke violence; and the louder you shout the
more people can potentially hear you.

Newspapers and radio/TV broadcasting can amplify what you say.
Consequently such organisations are deemed to be publishers and have to
take legal responsibility for the material they broadcast.

By contrast in the UK the postal service is in theory private and
secure, and you can send any written material. I think there is a
prohibition against obscene material, but given the privacy the only
person entitiled to complain would be the legitimate recipient. The
postal service isn't itself responsible, so it is designated a Common
Carrier.

By extension, email services and messaging apps are treated as common
carriers. Messages are sent from an individual to one or several
(potentialy very many) identified recipients. The carrier could look at
the messages he carries, but the sender could use encryption to guard
against this.

But social media sites are much more like newspapers or broadcasting.
Users generally incur a cost (not necessarily a munitary cost, more the
sale of their personal preferences and similar data) - in exactly the
same way as one buys a newspaper or a radio/tv receiver. Material is
therefore widely available to anybody who cares to look. Social media
is therefore a publisher in exacly the same way as a newspaper or
broadcaster.

Newspapers and broadcasters control the material they publish. The
traditional mechanism of printing a newspaper inherently involves
editorial control of content. It may be true that broadcast may incur
accidental transmission of illegal material (e.g heckling during a live
interview).

By contrast social media sites do not routinely screen all the material
they publish. At the outset they could (and should) have done so while
the volume of material was manageable; and no doubt suitable automation
would have been developed to cope with larger volumes of material. But
now the cat is out of the bag - they can't screen all the material
without incurring such large costs and delays as would make the whole
concept impractical.

Which is not to say that legislators could not take action against
libellous or other illegal material; and such action could in principle
cause all social media sites to close down. I don't see that this would
be any loss to humanity.

--
Graham J

Re: [OT] r/ClassicUsenet

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 by: David Kennedy - Wed, 11 May 2022 20:26 UTC

On 11/05/2022 17:50, Graham J wrote:
>
> Which is not to say that legislators could not take action against libellous
> or other illegal material; and such action could in principle cause all social
> media sites to close down.  I don't see that this would be any loss to humanity.

Will they close themselves down?

Re: [OT] r/ClassicUsenet

<t5i8sb$q2t$1@amos-jones.eternal-september.org>

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From: amos-jo...@outlook.com (Ray)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.sys.mac
Subject: Re: [OT] r/ClassicUsenet
Date: Thu, 12 May 2022 06:18:51 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: The Fresh Air Taxi Company
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 by: Ray - Thu, 12 May 2022 06:18 UTC

On 11 May 2022 at 17:50:35 BST, "Graham J" <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:

> Which is not to say that legislators could not take action against
> libellous or other illegal material; and such action could in principle
> cause all social media sites to close down. I don't see that this would
> be any loss to humanity.

Most social media sites stipulate the use of real identities. In reality it's
trivial to sign up with fake information.
It's easy to jump straight back on the system under another name if you get
shut down.
Shutting down the entire system because of a few undesirable posts is going to
be very difficult without the kind of draconian measures taken in some other
countries.

--
Only in our dreams are we free. The rest of the time we need wages.
TERRY PRATCHETT

Re: [OT] r/ClassicUsenet

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From: alanrich...@nospamgmail.com.here (Alan B)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.sys.mac
Subject: Re: [OT] r/ClassicUsenet
Date: Thu, 12 May 2022 07:45:47 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Alan B - Thu, 12 May 2022 07:45 UTC

Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:

[snip]

> Which is not to say that legislators could not take action against
> libellous or other illegal material; and such action could in principle
> cause all social media sites to close down. I don't see that this would
> be any loss to humanity.

In practice it’s probably only a very low number of users who are causing
issues. Unfortunately it’s very difficult for the authorities to take any
meaningful action against them given the ease with which it’s possible to
create new identities and other devious avoiding detection tactics.

--
Cheers, Alan

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From: davidken...@gmail.com (David Kennedy)
Organization: not really
Date: Thu, 12 May 2022 10:55:31 +0100
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 by: David Kennedy - Thu, 12 May 2022 09:55 UTC

On 12/05/2022 08:45, Alan B wrote:
> Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>> Which is not to say that legislators could not take action against
>> libellous or other illegal material; and such action could in principle
>> cause all social media sites to close down. I don't see that this would
>> be any loss to humanity.
>
> In practice it’s probably only a very low number of users who are causing
> issues. Unfortunately it’s very difficult for the authorities to take any
> meaningful action against them given the ease with which it’s possible to
> create new identities and other devious avoiding detection tactics.
>
The whole fake identity situation is ridiculous. Given that people can spoof
everything from identities to phone numbers it's unsurprising that there is so
much chaos. What is a little surprising considering the damage done is the
lack of will to implement any measures to prevent these things.

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