On 3/12/2022 10:43 AM, Stephen Packer wrote:
> On Saturday, 12 March 2022 at 16:44:01 UTC, Pipl wrote:
>> On Sat, 12 Mar 2022 04:58:50 -0800 (PST), Stephen Packer
>> <stephen...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Doesn't indiscriminate shelling of residential areas as part of the Russian
>>> invasion designed to absorb Ukraine back into Russia look like genocide?
>> I think thry're using foul means to break the defence, not
>> specifically wipe out an ethnicity. If the Ukrainians were to lay down
>> arms, I doubt they'd continue that form of attack. I suppose that
>> doesn't prevent them from then progressively destroying Ukranian
>> culture by occupation though.
>
> I'm viewing it more as destroying the nation rather than the ethnicity.
> Maybe destroying the 'spirit' of the nation without necessarily wiping
> out the people?

This. When so many of the Ukrainian fighters are civilians, it's Putin's
way of stopping them.

>
> I can see how 'genocide' if viewed in the Rwanda/Bosnia/2nd WW lens
> might not be what we've seen to date but it's certainly on the same road.

--
The erstwhile Thomas
FJR1300, R1200GS, ST1100 (in memoriam)

Mike Fleming wrote:

> On 04/03/2022 16:26, geoffC wrote:
> > Champ wrote:
> >
> > > They'd won. There were elections, a stable government, girls in
> > > school, women doing modern job (MPs, journalists, medics, etc).
> >
> > That was maybe the situation for the 10% of the population forming
> > the "elite" (who are now hightailing it out of the country) but in
> > the meantime the vast majority was receiving no such benefits.
> > Their lot has been to be periodically carpet bombed, strafed,
> > raided, chased away or starved by whatever
> > invader/marauder/liberator happened to be passing at the time. All
> > they want is for the shooting to stop so they can get on with their
> > lives as best they can. TBH the only peaceful period in the last
> > forty years or so has been when the Taliban was in power. I am
> > convinced the vast majority don't GAF about elections, education or
> > any of the other western luxuries we try and force on them as long
> > as they can carve out their existance like they used to before
> > Afghanistan became "strategic".
>
> An article written by someone who does GAF about elections and
> women's rights:
>
>
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/mar/05/famine-afghanistan-joe-biden-reparations
>
> I think you'll find that 50% of the population would rather not live
> in complete subjugation to the other 50%.

I don't know, how would you even begin to find out?

I read that article quite carefully and on the face of it, Ms Ghaffar
fits my description of an elite who hightailed out of the country quite
nicely.From the atricle it is not entirely clear who she would give the
billions to? Of all the billions that have been directed at Afghanistan
in the last 20yrs I'm pretty certain almost nothing reached the
ordinary folk. Ms Ghaffar is living in London and writes articles for
the Guardian, pretty sure she didn't grow up in a mud hut in rural
Afghanistan. I wonder what she was doing in the period before the
Taliban took over?

Here, another article, also from the Guardian, not really pushing a
point of view but the none the less, interesting:

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2022/feb/17/inside-taliban-return-to-power-afghanistan-mazar-i-sherif?utm_term=620dec286c28cffd908279035a3e9444&utm_campaign=MorningBriefingUK&utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&CMP=morningbriefinguk_email

--
Geoff
Honda NTV650

On 3/12/2022 12:21 PM, geoffC wrote:
> Mike Fleming wrote:
>
>> On 04/03/2022 16:26, geoffC wrote:
>>> Champ wrote:
>>>
>>>> They'd won. There were elections, a stable government, girls in
>>>> school, women doing modern job (MPs, journalists, medics, etc).
>>>
>>> That was maybe the situation for the 10% of the population forming
>>> the "elite" (who are now hightailing it out of the country) but in
>>> the meantime the vast majority was receiving no such benefits.
>>> Their lot has been to be periodically carpet bombed, strafed,
>>> raided, chased away or starved by whatever
>>> invader/marauder/liberator happened to be passing at the time. All
>>> they want is for the shooting to stop so they can get on with their
>>> lives as best they can. TBH the only peaceful period in the last
>>> forty years or so has been when the Taliban was in power. I am
>>> convinced the vast majority don't GAF about elections, education or
>>> any of the other western luxuries we try and force on them as long
>>> as they can carve out their existance like they used to before
>>> Afghanistan became "strategic".
>>
>> An article written by someone who does GAF about elections and
>> women's rights:
>>
>>
> https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/mar/05/famine-afghanistan-joe-biden-reparations
>>
>> I think you'll find that 50% of the population would rather not live
>> in complete subjugation to the other 50%.
>
> I don't know, how would you even begin to find out?
>

Yeah. After all, most men wouldn't even let you talk to their women.

--
The erstwhile Thomas
FJR1300, R1200GS, ST1100 (in memoriam)

Turby wrote:

> On 3/12/2022 12:21 PM, geoffC wrote:
> > Mike Fleming wrote:
> >
> > > On 04/03/2022 16:26, geoffC wrote:
> > > > Champ wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > They'd won. There were elections, a stable government, girls
> > > > > in school, women doing modern job (MPs, journalists, medics,
> > > > > etc).
> > > >
> > > > That was maybe the situation for the 10% of the population
> > > > forming the "elite" (who are now hightailing it out of the
> > > > country) but in the meantime the vast majority was receiving no
> > > > such benefits. Their lot has been to be periodically carpet
> > > > bombed, strafed, raided, chased away or starved by whatever
> > > > invader/marauder/liberator happened to be passing at the time.
> > > > All they want is for the shooting to stop so they can get on
> > > > with their lives as best they can. TBH the only peaceful period
> > > > in the last forty years or so has been when the Taliban was in
> > > > power. I am convinced the vast majority don't GAF about
> > > > elections, education or any of the other western luxuries we
> > > > try and force on them as long as they can carve out their
> > > > existance like they used to before Afghanistan became
> > > > "strategic".
> > >
> > > An article written by someone who does GAF about elections and
> > > women's rights:
> > >
> > >
> >
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/mar/05/famine-afghanistan-joe-biden-reparations
> > >
> > > I think you'll find that 50% of the population would rather not
> > > live in complete subjugation to the other 50%.
> >
> > I don't know, how would you even begin to find out?
> >
>
> Yeah. After all, most men wouldn't even let you talk to their women.

Quite, so let's just assume shall we?

--
Geoff
Honda NTV650

On 12/03/2022 21:54, Turby wrote:
> On 3/12/2022 12:21 PM, geoffC wrote:
>> Mike Fleming wrote:
>>
>>> On 04/03/2022 16:26, geoffC wrote:
>>>> Champ wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> They'd won.  There were elections, a stable government, girls in
>>>>> school, women doing modern job (MPs, journalists, medics, etc).
>>>>
>>>> That was maybe the situation for the 10% of the population forming
>>>> the "elite" (who are now hightailing it out of the country) but in
>>>> the meantime the vast majority was receiving no such benefits.
>>>> Their lot has been to be periodically carpet bombed, strafed,
>>>> raided, chased away or starved by whatever
>>>> invader/marauder/liberator happened to be passing at the time. All
>>>> they want is for the shooting to stop so they can get on with their
>>>> lives as best they can. TBH the only peaceful period in the last
>>>> forty years or so has been when the Taliban was in power. I am
>>>> convinced the vast majority don't GAF about elections, education or
>>>> any of the other western luxuries we try and force on them as long
>>>> as they can carve out their existance like they used to before
>>>> Afghanistan became "strategic".
>>>
>>> An article written by someone who does GAF about elections and
>>> women's rights:
>>>
>>>
>> https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/mar/05/famine-afghanistan-joe-biden-reparations
>>
>>>
>>> I think you'll find that 50% of the population would rather not live
>>> in complete subjugation to the other 50%.
>>
>> I don't know, how would you even begin to find out?
>>
>
> Yeah. After all, most men wouldn't even let you talk to their women.

Its still like that in some parts of Britain...

Chris

--
The Deuchars BBB#40 COFF#14
Yamaha XV750SE & Suzuki GS550t
http://www.Deuchars.org.uk