10+ year old Hotpoint (so it's really an Indesit, I think?) controls are
not mechanical.

It's not been any trouble, though over last couple of years it's
developed a slight tendency between washes for the staus LEDs to end up
in weird blinking patterns (that don't correspond to any of the defined
error patterns) TIOAOA fixes that, but today it's got stuck in the
middle of a cycle twice.

First it was filling and pumping out at same time, second time I think
it was trying to boil itself dry, steam coming out the soap drawer.

My fault finding doesn't extend much past if it's not a blown fuse look
for bulging capacitors, I'm thinking it *could* be the latter, dodgy cap
on PSU section giving flaky voltages that crashing the CPU?

But beyond that, not much else worth bothering looking for?

Sounds nasty, might be worth asking if a replacement pcb is available at
under the cost of a new machine.
Brian

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"Andy Burns" <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote in message
news:k2npnaF8rtjU1@mid.individual.net...
> 10+ year old Hotpoint (so it's really an Indesit, I think?) controls are
> not mechanical.
>
> It's not been any trouble, though over last couple of years it's developed
> a slight tendency between washes for the staus LEDs to end up in weird
> blinking patterns (that don't correspond to any of the defined error
> patterns) TIOAOA fixes that, but today it's got stuck in the middle of a
> cycle twice.
>
> First it was filling and pumping out at same time, second time I think it
> was trying to boil itself dry, steam coming out the soap drawer.
>
> My fault finding doesn't extend much past if it's not a blown fuse look
> for bulging capacitors, I'm thinking it *could* be the latter, dodgy cap
> on PSU section giving flaky voltages that crashing the CPU?
>
> But beyond that, not much else worth bothering looking for?

On 1/17/2023 9:30 AM, Andy Burns wrote:
> 10+ year old Hotpoint (so it's really an Indesit, I think?) controls are not mechanical.
>
> It's not been any trouble, though over last couple of years it's developed a slight tendency between washes for the staus LEDs to end up in weird blinking patterns (that don't correspond to any of the defined error patterns) TIOAOA fixes that, but today it's got stuck in the middle of a cycle twice.
>
> First it was filling and pumping out at same time, second time I think it was trying to boil itself dry, steam coming out the soap drawer.
>
> My fault finding doesn't extend much past if it's not a blown fuse look for bulging capacitors, I'm thinking it *could* be the latter, dodgy cap on PSU section giving flaky voltages that crashing the CPU?
>
> But beyond that, not much else worth bothering looking for?

Couple of electrolytics visible at 1:50

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeBUzH3tbXU

One of the problems with a control board like that,
is a lack of silk screened markings. It is SO helpful
when a legend marks +5V rail, +3.3V rail, as for a home
hobbyist, those might be the only things they can check
easily.

The other part of disassembly, would be getting a part
number off the top of the SOC, but if the part number
is long, like 123456789 instead of ST352, then that
marks a part with a ROM on the top layer of the silicon
and the part number is a declaration of being "custom".
That also makes getting a datasheet impossible (for
a hobbyist to map the part number to actual silicon).

If the part has a "regular" number like ST352 sort of
thing, it could be EEPROM based and programmable on the
factory line. Flash storage is usually "assured" for
ten years. Whereas a ROM design is good forever,
as it is not based on floating gates like an EEPROM is.

EEPROMs on ATX motherboards, occasionally have bitrot, but then,
the device itself can be "constantly written to", so it is
not like the device rests undisturbed. The washer has
no reason to be a read/write device, and should be read only
while in service.

A good design on a SOC, the SOC will do a CRC check over
the entire flash load. If the CRC is wrong, the unit would
"stop and light a LED", indicating in-service failure and
no washing for you.

Your "unstable supply" theory then, is a strong contender
for root cause. Because the stupid machine thinks it is sane.

I had an ATX motherboard crash here, due to unstable +5V.

It could be, for example, that when actuating the relays or
triacs, something is overloading the rails. You would
also look for burn marks on any power-driving components,
indicating they've been tortured.

Also examine the PCB. Check for corrosion. Bare copper does
not last very long. Nickel plating or "something over nickel",
will last a lot longer. If electrolyte has leaked from the
main caps, that can corrode the conductors nearby.

Paul

On Tuesday, 17 January 2023 at 14:30:07 UTC, Andy Burns wrote:
> 10+ year old Hotpoint (so it's really an Indesit, I think?) controls are
> not mechanical.
>
> It's not been any trouble, though over last couple of years it's
> developed a slight tendency between washes for the staus LEDs to end up
> in weird blinking patterns (that don't correspond to any of the defined
> error patterns) TIOAOA fixes that, but today it's got stuck in the
> middle of a cycle twice.
>
> First it was filling and pumping out at same time, second time I think
> it was trying to boil itself dry, steam coming out the soap drawer.
>
> My fault finding doesn't extend much past if it's not a blown fuse look
> for bulging capacitors, I'm thinking it *could* be the latter, dodgy cap
> on PSU section giving flaky voltages that crashing the CPU?
>
> But beyond that, not much else worth bothering looking for?

We can't dx it from here, but as a generality the main causes of electronic failure are bad connections & electrolytic capacitors.

Brian Gaff wrote:

> might be worth asking if a replacement pcb is available at
> under the cost of a new machine.

three boards 180 to 245 quid each, not worth it compared to 400 ish for
a new machine, the bearings sound a bit graunchy too, so replace the
whole thing (if I can't see any caps worth replacing) would make sense.

On 18/01/2023 12:26, Andy Burns wrote:
> Brian Gaff wrote:
>
>> might be worth asking if a replacement pcb is available at
>> under the cost of a new machine.
>
> three boards 180 to 245 quid each, not worth it compared to 400 ish for
> a new machine, the bearings sound a bit graunchy too, so replace the
> whole thing (if I can't see any caps worth replacing) would make sense.
>
Sadly that is the case for so much kit these days.

Hard to get parts, cost is amazing, then add labour..

--
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is.
-- Yogi Berra

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> Brian Gaff wrote:
>>
>>> might be worth asking if a replacement pcb is available at
>>> under the cost of a new machine.
>>
>> three boards 180 to 245 quid each, not worth it compared to 400 ish
>> for a new machine, the bearings sound a bit graunchy too, so replace
>> the whole thing (if I can't see any caps worth replacing) would make
>> sense.
>
> Sadly that is the case for so much kit these days.

As it was an integrated W/D, I went for essentially a drop in model from
Indesit to save hassle, arrived today and installed ok (drain hose a few
inches shorter so minor rejig of plumbing required) other comments...

Cold-fill only, I think I struggled to find a hot/cold fill one back in
2008, never sure if the argument that modern detergents work better cold
is just a convenient excuse or not, apparently 20°C is the new 30°C.

On the whole, noticeable quieter than the old one ever was, this one
brags about "invertermotor" on the front panel, I assume the old one was
too since it did have a 3-ph motor, but the new one feels very smoothly
computer-controlled.

[Having said it is quiet, it's actually just hit spin, and that's
actually pretty loud and goes on for ages]

[Now it's on tumble dry, obviously it drips a bit of water to condense
the steam, and that's sending an annoying "tick" of water hammer around
all my pipes every few seconds, and I do have an arrestor fitted]

The manual (two sheets of A4) insists you have to run an "auto-clean"
cycle before doing a real wash, shame it doesn't actually mention the
secret key combination to trigger that, fortunately youtube knew,
presumably that saves them the hassle of having to de-grease it before
leaving the factory?

Compared to the old one, it contains much cheapness; old one had
stainless drum and tub, metal motor casing/bracket/pulleys. New one
does have stainless (or at least shiny looking) drum, but the tub is
brittle plastic glued from several pieces, motor housing/bracket/pulleys
also plastic.

It reccomends you turn the water tap off between washes, I mean,
honestly who is going to do that? Makes me suspicious that they've
fitted crappy solenoid valves that can't take continuous pressure.

Best point for last ... it has an EU compliant "Eco 40-60" mode, for
efficient water and energy use ... shame it takes 9 fucking hours and 20
minutes to run!

On Wednesday, 15 February 2023 at 21:53:38 UTC, Andy Burns wrote:

> Best point for last ... it has an EU compliant "Eco 40-60" mode, for
> efficient water and energy use ... shame it takes 9 fucking hours and 20
> minutes to run!

I've long been saying WMs should have that. Use it when convenient. Machines without that waste energy.