Without checking flight radar (which may or may not show anything,
dunno), my guess is a lot of stuff moving from the secret^H^H^H^^ M4
works traffic only exit to somewhere like Brize.

--
/Simon

On Wednesday, March 9, 2022 at 6:33:00 PM UTC, siwilson wrote:
> Without checking flight radar (which may or may not show anything,
> dunno), my guess is a lot of stuff moving from the secret^H^H^H^^ M4
> works traffic only exit to somewhere like Brize.

We can certainly be sure that we'll be dealt with rather quickly where we live, if them ruski's do decide to press the ouch button.

We used to go camping at RAF Welford when in the Scouts as a kid, I bet they've tightened up security since then. One of our Scout leaders was QM down there and let us buy stuff from the base shop (is it still a NAFFI if it's Mercan ?)

His barbecues were legendary - as were the size of the steaks he used to serve up !!

On Thursday, March 10, 2022 at 11:36:03 AM UTC-5, browni...@googlemail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, March 9, 2022 at 6:33:00 PM UTC, siwilson wrote:
> > Without checking flight radar (which may or may not show anything,
> > dunno), my guess is a lot of stuff moving from the secret^H^H^H^^ M4
> > works traffic only exit to somewhere like Brize.
> We can certainly be sure that we'll be dealt with rather quickly where we live, if them ruski's do decide to press the ouch button.
>
> We used to go camping at RAF Welford when in the Scouts as a kid, I bet they've tightened up security since then. One of our Scout leaders was QM down there and let us buy stuff from the base shop (is it still a NAFFI if it's Mercan ?)

No, it's a BX (Base Exchange). The USAF has bases, and the US Army has posts. I remember getting a very fine pair of Oakleys for Ogden at a PX somewhere in the ME and delivering them to him in a pub in Buckinghamshire (Great Missenden, perhaps), though I can't imagine why either of us would have been in that neck of the woods.

Ben Blaney <benblaney@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thursday, March 10, 2022 at 11:36:03 AM UTC-5, browni...@googlemail.com wrote:
>> On Wednesday, March 9, 2022 at 6:33:00 PM UTC, siwilson wrote:
>> > Without checking flight radar (which may or may not show anything,
>> > dunno), my guess is a lot of stuff moving from the secret^H^H^H^^ M4
>> > works traffic only exit to somewhere like Brize.
>> We can certainly be sure that we'll be dealt with rather quickly where we live, if them ruski's do decide to press the ouch button.
>>
>> We used to go camping at RAF Welford when in the Scouts as a kid, I bet they've tightened up security since then. One of our Scout leaders was QM down there and let us buy stuff from the base shop (is it still a NAFFI if it's Mercan ?)
>
> No, it's a BX (Base Exchange). The USAF has bases, and the US Army has posts. I remember getting a very fine pair of Oakleys for Ogden at a PX somewhere in the ME and delivering them to him in a pub in Buckinghamshire (Great Missenden, perhaps), though I can't imagine why either of us would have been in that neck of the woods.

I spent quite a lot of time on a USAF base last year as a civilian
contractor, with 24/7 base access privileges. But I wasn't allowed
to purchase anything from the gas station or any stores, apart from
the food court.

--
FJR1300A, GL1000, KLR650A6F, EX250J9A, DR200SE, Vespa Ciao

On Friday, March 11, 2022 at 4:02:06 PM UTC-5, Mark Olson wrote:

> I spent quite a lot of time on a USAF base last year as a civilian
> contractor, with 24/7 base access privileges. But I wasn't allowed
> to purchase anything from the gas station or any stores, apart from
> the food court.

Oh, bad luck. One of the only things that made life tolerable in those days was spending my ill-gotten gains in the PX/BX at various places. But then again, maybe the discount on Oakleys isn't so lush any more.

Ben Blaney <benblaney@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Friday, March 11, 2022 at 4:02:06 PM UTC-5, Mark Olson wrote:
>
>> I spent quite a lot of time on a USAF base last year as a civilian
>> contractor, with 24/7 base access privileges. But I wasn't allowed
>> to purchase anything from the gas station or any stores, apart from
>> the food court.
>
> Oh, bad luck. One of the only things that made life tolerable in those days was spending my ill-gotten gains in the PX/BX at various places. But then again, maybe the discount on Oakleys isn't so lush any more.

OTOH, can't complain about Gold Medallion status on Delta, and
free stays at Marriott properties & free car rentals with
National/Enterprise.

But I'd happily give that all back in exchange for being done
with the project.

--
FJR1300A, GL1000, KLR650A6F, EX250J9A, DR200SE, Vespa Ciao

Ben Blaney wrote:
> Mark Olson wrote:
> > I spent quite a lot of time on a USAF base last year as a civilian
> > contractor, with 24/7 base access privileges. But I wasn't allowed
> > to purchase anything from the gas station or any stores, apart from
> > the food court.
>
> Oh, bad luck. One of the only things that made life tolerable in those
> days was spending my ill-gotten gains in the PX/BX at various places.
> But then again, maybe the discount on Oakleys isn't so lush any more.

My eyes are too shit to even wear Oakleys anymore.

On Friday, March 11, 2022 at 9:02:06 PM UTC, Mark Olson wrote:
> Ben Blaney <benb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Thursday, March 10, 2022 at 11:36:03 AM UTC-5, browni...@googlemail.com wrote:
> >> On Wednesday, March 9, 2022 at 6:33:00 PM UTC, siwilson wrote:
> >> > Without checking flight radar (which may or may not show anything,
> >> > dunno), my guess is a lot of stuff moving from the secret^H^H^H^^ M4
> >> > works traffic only exit to somewhere like Brize.
> >> We can certainly be sure that we'll be dealt with rather quickly where we live, if them ruski's do decide to press the ouch button.
> >>
> >> We used to go camping at RAF Welford when in the Scouts as a kid, I bet they've tightened up security since then. One of our Scout leaders was QM down there and let us buy stuff from the base shop (is it still a NAFFI if it's Mercan ?)
> >
> > No, it's a BX (Base Exchange). The USAF has bases, and the US Army has posts. I remember getting a very fine pair of Oakleys for Ogden at a PX somewhere in the ME and delivering them to him in a pub in Buckinghamshire (Great Missenden, perhaps), though I can't imagine why either of us would have been in that neck of the woods.
> I spent quite a lot of time on a USAF base last year as a civilian
> contractor, with 24/7 base access privileges. But I wasn't allowed
> to purchase anything from the gas station or any stores, apart from
> the food court.
>

This was going back to when I was a young skinny little leprechaun, around 35 years ago. So I guess base security wasn't what it is now.
You don't know how exciting pop tarts, lifesavers and root beer were to a 14 year old lad isolated in rural Oxfordshire !

Twas a bastard of a night - the scout leaders were a bunch of sadistic cnuts, it was called "Frosties" and always held in February.
You weren't allowed tents and sleeping bags, and had to build your own shelter. Probably wouldn't be allowed these days !

On Tue, 15 Mar 2022 03:02:22 -0700 (PDT), Dave Brown
<browniebrownz@googlemail.com> wrote:

>Twas a bastard of a night - the scout leaders were a bunch of sadistic cnuts, it was called "Frosties" and always held in February.
>You weren't allowed tents and sleeping bags, and had to build your own shelter. Probably wouldn't be allowed these days !

Fucks sake. Shouldn't have been allowed then either - sounds like
you're right about the sadistic thing.

When I were 'scout we held our annual winter camp at
Chapel-en-le-Frith up in the moors of north Derbyshire - in a hut.
Proper camping in a tent would have been rightly seen as a completely
fucking stupid idea.

--
Ace
http://www.chaletbeauroc.com/

Dave Brown wrote:
> Twas a bastard of a night - the scout leaders were a bunch of sadistic cnuts, it was called "Frosties" and always held in February.
> You weren't allowed tents and sleeping bags, and had to build your own shelter. Probably wouldn't be allowed these days !

Shhh...You'll give the Conwy Motorcycle Club ideas.

On 3/15/2022 3:02 AM, Dave Brown wrote:
>
>
> Twas a bastard of a night - the scout leaders were a bunch of sadistic cnuts, it was called "Frosties" and always held in February.
> You weren't allowed tents and sleeping bags, and had to build your own shelter. Probably wouldn't be allowed these days !

Sadistic, maybe, but you learned how to get tough and survive. I
remember a training camp we had for adult scouts (>18 IIRC,) to teach
kids. The highlight was cooking and eating a rattlesnake.

--
The erstwhile Thomas
FJR1300, R1200GS, ST1100 (in memoriam)

On Tuesday, March 15, 2022 at 2:53:33 PM UTC, Turby wrote:
> On 3/15/2022 3:02 AM, Dave Brown wrote:
> >
> >
> > Twas a bastard of a night - the scout leaders were a bunch of sadistic cnuts, it was called "Frosties" and always held in February.
> > You weren't allowed tents and sleeping bags, and had to build your own shelter. Probably wouldn't be allowed these days !
> Sadistic, maybe, but you learned how to get tough and survive. I
> remember a training camp we had for adult scouts (>18 IIRC,) to teach
> kids. The highlight was cooking and eating a rattlesnake.
>

Heh, did my fair share of that kinda stuff - cubs/scouts/CCF, thankfully the only time I've ever had snake was in a dish at a hotel in Foshan !

I do agree though, and I'm sounding like my dearly departed grandfather, I look at a generation that has lost the basic survival skillset and associated bush-craft that goes with it. I guess I've sort of carried it on into adult life with my love of fire cooking outdoors. When I see people that don't know how to gut and filet a fish, or skin and prep a rabbit it still makes my mind boggle. I guess growing up on a housing estate in huge city it's not a skillset you'll ever need !!

I'm kinda thinking the NBC drills and training we did in the Black Mountains might come in handy, although I don't have a NBC suit and respirator !

Dave Brown <browniebrownz@googlemail.com> wrote in
news:a859ef8d-4b04-452c-97db-e06d2d4148c1n@googlegroups.com:

> On Tuesday, March 15, 2022 at 2:53:33 PM UTC, Turby wrote:
>> On 3/15/2022 3:02 AM, Dave Brown wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > Twas a bastard of a night - the scout leaders were a bunch of
>> > sadistic
> cnuts, it was called "Frosties" and always held in February.
>> > You weren't allowed tents and sleeping bags, and had to build your
>> > own
> shelter. Probably wouldn't be allowed these days !
>> Sadistic, maybe, but you learned how to get tough and survive. I
>> remember a training camp we had for adult scouts (>18 IIRC,) to teach
>> kids. The highlight was cooking and eating a rattlesnake.
>>
>
> Heh, did my fair share of that kinda stuff - cubs/scouts/CCF,
> thankfully the only time I've ever had snake was in a dish at a hotel
> in Foshan !
>
> I do agree though, and I'm sounding like my dearly departed
> grandfather, I look at a generation that has lost the basic survival
> skillset and associated bush-craft that goes with it. I guess I've
> sort of carried it on into adult life with my love of fire cooking
> outdoors. When I see people that don't know how to gut and filet a
> fish, or skin and prep a rabbit it still makes my mind boggle. I guess
> growing up on a housing estate in huge city it's not a skillset you'll
> ever need !!
>

I'm not sure this loss of survival skills is a new thing. I doubt many
of my father's family living in Liswerry in the 1930s, and working in
the docks or steel works knew much about filleting fish or catching
rabbits.

I grew up in a farming family and was forced to join the CCF in school
aged 15. I can't say I miss any of it. Watch your grandfather wrestle a
hare from the dog, knowing it will be in the pot for tea. No thanks. Get
dragged off to Sennybridge Camp to wade through a gulley, up to your
hips in stinking mud. FRO.

I would rather do my hunting and gathering in Aldi or have an orange van
drop off stuff selected from the Sainsbury's website.

On Wednesday, March 16, 2022 at 2:29:15 PM UTC, wessie wrote:
> Dave Brown <browni...@googlemail.com> wrote in
> news:a859ef8d-4b04-452c...@googlegroups.com:
> > On Tuesday, March 15, 2022 at 2:53:33 PM UTC, Turby wrote:
> >> On 3/15/2022 3:02 AM, Dave Brown wrote:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Twas a bastard of a night - the scout leaders were a bunch of
> >> > sadistic
> > cnuts, it was called "Frosties" and always held in February.
> >> > You weren't allowed tents and sleeping bags, and had to build your
> >> > own
> > shelter. Probably wouldn't be allowed these days !
> >> Sadistic, maybe, but you learned how to get tough and survive. I
> >> remember a training camp we had for adult scouts (>18 IIRC,) to teach
> >> kids. The highlight was cooking and eating a rattlesnake.
> >>
> >
> > Heh, did my fair share of that kinda stuff - cubs/scouts/CCF,
> > thankfully the only time I've ever had snake was in a dish at a hotel
> > in Foshan !
> >
> > I do agree though, and I'm sounding like my dearly departed
> > grandfather, I look at a generation that has lost the basic survival
> > skillset and associated bush-craft that goes with it. I guess I've
> > sort of carried it on into adult life with my love of fire cooking
> > outdoors. When I see people that don't know how to gut and filet a
> > fish, or skin and prep a rabbit it still makes my mind boggle. I guess
> > growing up on a housing estate in huge city it's not a skillset you'll
> > ever need !!
> >
> I'm not sure this loss of survival skills is a new thing. I doubt many
> of my father's family living in Liswerry in the 1930s, and working in
> the docks or steel works knew much about filleting fish or catching
> rabbits.
>
> I grew up in a farming family and was forced to join the CCF in school
> aged 15. I can't say I miss any of it. Watch your grandfather wrestle a
> hare from the dog, knowing it will be in the pot for tea. No thanks. Get
> dragged off to Sennybridge Camp to wade through a gulley, up to your
> hips in stinking mud. FRO.
>
> I would rather do my hunting and gathering in Aldi or have an orange van
> drop off stuff selected from the Sainsbury's website.

You won't be able to order your groceries from Avocado when we've been flattened by ruskie newks :-P

For one I'm looking forward to rat fricassee while my hair falls out.

Dave Brown <browniebrownz@googlemail.com> wrote in
news:d734d6ae-c22a-4880-8457-1fd1c5f98b6an@googlegroups.com:

> On Wednesday, March 16, 2022 at 2:29:15 PM UTC, wessie wrote:
>> Dave Brown <browni...@googlemail.com> wrote in
>> news:a859ef8d-4b04-452c...@googlegroups.com:
>> > On Tuesday, March 15, 2022 at 2:53:33 PM UTC, Turby wrote:
>> >> On 3/15/2022 3:02 AM, Dave Brown wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Twas a bastard of a night - the scout leaders were a bunch of
>> >> > sadistic
>> > cnuts, it was called "Frosties" and always held in February.
>> >> > You weren't allowed tents and sleeping bags, and had to build
>> >> > your own
>> > shelter. Probably wouldn't be allowed these days !
>> >> Sadistic, maybe, but you learned how to get tough and survive. I
>> >> remember a training camp we had for adult scouts (>18 IIRC,) to
>> >> teach kids. The highlight was cooking and eating a rattlesnake.
>> >>
>> >
>> > Heh, did my fair share of that kinda stuff - cubs/scouts/CCF,
>> > thankfully the only time I've ever had snake was in a dish at a
>> > hotel in Foshan !
>> >
>> > I do agree though, and I'm sounding like my dearly departed
>> > grandfather, I look at a generation that has lost the basic
>> > survival skillset and associated bush-craft that goes with it. I
>> > guess I've sort of carried it on into adult life with my love of
>> > fire cooking outdoors. When I see people that don't know how to gut
>> > and filet a fish, or skin and prep a rabbit it still makes my mind
>> > boggle. I guess growing up on a housing estate in huge city it's
>> > not a skillset you'll ever need !!
>> >
>> I'm not sure this loss of survival skills is a new thing. I doubt
>> many of my father's family living in Liswerry in the 1930s, and
>> working in the docks or steel works knew much about filleting fish or
>> catching rabbits.
>>
>> I grew up in a farming family and was forced to join the CCF in
>> school aged 15. I can't say I miss any of it. Watch your grandfather
>> wrestle a hare from the dog, knowing it will be in the pot for tea.
>> No thanks. Get dragged off to Sennybridge Camp to wade through a
>> gulley, up to your hips in stinking mud. FRO.
>>
>> I would rather do my hunting and gathering in Aldi or have an orange
>> van drop off stuff selected from the Sainsbury's website.
>
> You won't be able to order your groceries from Avocado when we've been
> flattened by ruskie newks :-P
>
> For one I'm looking forward to rat fricassee while my hair falls out.
>

I live less than 2 miles from GCHQ. I'll take vapourisation over
existing in a nuclear winter

On Wednesday, March 16, 2022 at 3:04:57 PM UTC, wessie wrote:
> Dave Brown <browni...@googlemail.com> wrote in
> news:d734d6ae-c22a-4880...@googlegroups.com:
> > On Wednesday, March 16, 2022 at 2:29:15 PM UTC, wessie wrote:
> >> Dave Brown <browni...@googlemail.com> wrote in
> >> news:a859ef8d-4b04-452c...@googlegroups.com:
> >> > On Tuesday, March 15, 2022 at 2:53:33 PM UTC, Turby wrote:
> >> >> On 3/15/2022 3:02 AM, Dave Brown wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Twas a bastard of a night - the scout leaders were a bunch of
> >> >> > sadistic
> >> > cnuts, it was called "Frosties" and always held in February.
> >> >> > You weren't allowed tents and sleeping bags, and had to build
> >> >> > your own
> >> > shelter. Probably wouldn't be allowed these days !
> >> >> Sadistic, maybe, but you learned how to get tough and survive. I
> >> >> remember a training camp we had for adult scouts (>18 IIRC,) to
> >> >> teach kids. The highlight was cooking and eating a rattlesnake.
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > Heh, did my fair share of that kinda stuff - cubs/scouts/CCF,
> >> > thankfully the only time I've ever had snake was in a dish at a
> >> > hotel in Foshan !
> >> >
> >> > I do agree though, and I'm sounding like my dearly departed
> >> > grandfather, I look at a generation that has lost the basic
> >> > survival skillset and associated bush-craft that goes with it. I
> >> > guess I've sort of carried it on into adult life with my love of
> >> > fire cooking outdoors. When I see people that don't know how to gut
> >> > and filet a fish, or skin and prep a rabbit it still makes my mind
> >> > boggle. I guess growing up on a housing estate in huge city it's
> >> > not a skillset you'll ever need !!
> >> >
> >> I'm not sure this loss of survival skills is a new thing. I doubt
> >> many of my father's family living in Liswerry in the 1930s, and
> >> working in the docks or steel works knew much about filleting fish or
> >> catching rabbits.
> >>
> >> I grew up in a farming family and was forced to join the CCF in
> >> school aged 15. I can't say I miss any of it. Watch your grandfather
> >> wrestle a hare from the dog, knowing it will be in the pot for tea.
> >> No thanks. Get dragged off to Sennybridge Camp to wade through a
> >> gulley, up to your hips in stinking mud. FRO.
> >>
> >> I would rather do my hunting and gathering in Aldi or have an orange
> >> van drop off stuff selected from the Sainsbury's website.
> >
> > You won't be able to order your groceries from Avocado when we've been
> > flattened by ruskie newks :-P
> >
> > For one I'm looking forward to rat fricassee while my hair falls out.
> >
> I live less than 2 miles from GCHQ. I'll take vapourisation over
> existing in a nuclear winter

Heh, citing original post, where as Wilson and I live between Welford and Fairford.

"RAF Welford is home to the 420th Munitions Squadron, it is located 40 minutes south of Oxford in Oxfordshire.
RAF Welford is the second largest conventional munitions storage area in Europe, and primarily serves to support RAF Fairford."

More of a meecrowarve than a fricassee.....

On Saturday, March 12, 2022 at 9:50:33 AM UTC-5, Mark Olson wrote:

> OTOH, can't complain about Gold Medallion status on Delta, and
> free stays at Marriott properties & free car rentals with
> National/Enterprise.

I'm just about to drop a load of Marriott points on a summer trip to Venice. Trying to decide between the Gritti Palace, the Danieli, and the St Regis.

> But I'd happily give that all back in exchange for being done
> with the project.

I can imagine.

On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 2:40:37 PM UTC-4, ogden wrote:
> Ben Blaney wrote:
> > Mark Olson wrote:
> > > I spent quite a lot of time on a USAF base last year as a civilian
> > > contractor, with 24/7 base access privileges. But I wasn't allowed
> > > to purchase anything from the gas station or any stores, apart from
> > > the food court.
> >
> > Oh, bad luck. One of the only things that made life tolerable in those
> > days was spending my ill-gotten gains in the PX/BX at various places.
> > But then again, maybe the discount on Oakleys isn't so lush any more.
> My eyes are too shit to even wear Oakleys anymore.

It's also 2022, so there's that. Oakleys are out, aren't they.

On 3/16/2022 8:13 AM, Dave Brown wrote:
> On Wednesday, March 16, 2022 at 3:04:57 PM UTC, wessie wrote:
>> Dave Brown <browni...@googlemail.com> wrote in
>> news:d734d6ae-c22a-4880...@googlegroups.com:
>>> On Wednesday, March 16, 2022 at 2:29:15 PM UTC, wessie wrote:
>>>> Dave Brown <browni...@googlemail.com> wrote in
>>>> news:a859ef8d-4b04-452c...@googlegroups.com:
>>>>> On Tuesday, March 15, 2022 at 2:53:33 PM UTC, Turby wrote:
>>>>>> I remember a training camp we had for adult scouts
>>>>>
>>>>> Heh, did my fair share of that kinda stuff - cubs/scouts/CCF,
>>>>
>>>> I grew up in a farming family and was forced to join the CCF in
>>>> school aged 15.

What's CCF?

>> I live less than 2 miles from GCHQ. I'll take vapourisation over
>> existing in a nuclear winter
>
> Heh, citing original post, where as Wilson and I live between Welford and Fairford.
>
> "RAF Welford is home to the 420th Munitions Squadron,

I am surrounded by 9 Navy and Marine bases, with 100,000 soldiers and
sailors, including the 11th Naval District HQ and the largest Navy base
on the West Coast. If there's ever a nuclear war, I'll know maybe a
minute before I die.

--
The erstwhile Thomas
FJR1300, R1200GS, ST1100 (in memoriam)

Turby <xsurf@xmail.com> wrote in news:t0tdu5$kg9$1@dont-email.me:

>>>>> I grew up in a farming family and was forced to join the CCF in
>>>>> school aged 15.
>
> What's CCF?
>

combine cadet force

we had a choice of the army or RAF cadets

I was in the RAF. Flying a Chipmunk was fine but not interested in any of
the yomping or macho stuff.

On Wednesday, March 16, 2022 at 7:36:57 PM UTC, wessie wrote:
> Turby <xs...@xmail.com> wrote in news:t0tdu5$kg9$1...@dont-email.me:
> >>>>> I grew up in a farming family and was forced to join the CCF in
> >>>>> school aged 15.
> >
> > What's CCF?
> >
> combine cadet force
>
> we had a choice of the army or RAF cadets
>
> I was in the RAF. Flying a Chipmunk was fine but not interested in any of
> the yomping or macho stuff.

I had you down as Navy, don't know why .....

Ben Blaney wrote:

> It's also 2022, so there's that. Oakleys are out, aren't they.

I hope not! I've got varifocals, valifocal sunglasses, old prescription
sunglasses & non-prescription sunglasses all in Oakley frames.

--
Chris

On Thu, 17 Mar 2022 15:50:56 -0000 (UTC), "CT" <me@christrollen.co.uk>
wrote:

>Ben Blaney wrote:
>
>> It's also 2022, so there's that. Oakleys are out, aren't they.
>
>I hope not! I've got varifocals, valifocal sunglasses, old prescription
>sunglasses & non-prescription sunglasses all in Oakley frames.

You're not helping here, you know.

--
Ace
http://www.chaletbeauroc.com/

On Thu, 17 Mar 2022 03:17:45 -0700 (PDT), Dave Brown
<browniebrownz@googlemail.com> wrote:

>On Wednesday, March 16, 2022 at 7:36:57 PM UTC, wessie wrote:
>> Turby <xs...@xmail.com> wrote in news:t0tdu5$kg9$1...@dont-email.me:
>> >>>>> I grew up in a farming family and was forced to join the CCF in
>> >>>>> school aged 15.
>> >
>> > What's CCF?

>> combine cadet force
>>
>> we had a choice of the army or RAF cadets
>>
>> I was in the RAF. Flying a Chipmunk was fine but not interested in any of
>> the yomping or macho stuff.

>I had you down as Navy, don't know why .....

heh
--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk

I don't know, but I been told
You never slow down, you never grow old