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Be consistent. -- Larry Wall in the perl man page


aus+uk / uk.rec.sheds / Re: what to say?

SubjectAuthor
* what to say?Peter
+- what to say?Sam Plusnet
+* what to say?RustyHinge
|+* what to say?Nicholas D. Richards
||+* what to say?Tim+
|||+- what to say?Richard Robinson
|||`- what to say?maus
||+* what to say?Ahem A Rivet's Shot
|||`* what to say?maus
||| `- what to say?Ahem A Rivet's Shot
||`* what to say?Brian Howie
|| `* what to say?Thomas Prufer
||  `* what to say?Brian Howie
||   `- what to say?Sam Plusnet
|+- what to say?John Williamson
|`- what to say?Peter
+* what to say?Tone
|`- what to say?Nicholas D. Richards
`* what to say?soup
 `* what to say?Ahem A Rivet's Shot
  `* what to say?Peter
   `- what to say?maus

1
what to say?

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From: mys...@prune.org.uk (Peter)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.sheds
Subject: what to say?
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2022 17:56:32 -0000 (UTC)
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X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett
 by: Peter - Thu, 31 Mar 2022 17:56 UTC

We've lived next door to an elderly couple for nearly 40 years (we're in our
mid 70's and they're about 10 years older). She passed away last night - I
saw the undertakers and went out - he was there with their daughter, and
they said she had died in the early hours. I said I was sorry, etc, but
after that I didn't know what to say. It hardly seemed appropriate to engage
in the normal small talk that he and I normally engage in over the fence,
and I had nothing left to say - toguetied. And it was oblody freezing so I
muttered something about keeping warm, and went in.

But I wish I'd known what else I might have said suitable to the
circumstances.

--
Peter
-----

Re: what to say?

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From: not...@home.com (Sam Plusnet)
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 by: Sam Plusnet - Thu, 31 Mar 2022 19:22 UTC

On 31-Mar-22 18:56, Peter wrote:
> We've lived next door to an elderly couple for nearly 40 years (we're in our
> mid 70's and they're about 10 years older). She passed away last night - I
> saw the undertakers and went out - he was there with their daughter, and
> they said she had died in the early hours. I said I was sorry, etc, but
> after that I didn't know what to say. It hardly seemed appropriate to engage
> in the normal small talk that he and I normally engage in over the fence,
> and I had nothing left to say - toguetied. And it was oblody freezing so I
> muttered something about keeping warm, and went in.
>
> But I wish I'd known what else I might have said suitable to the
> circumstances.

I doubt if there are any good words in that circumstance, and I strongly
suspect he wouldn't have taken in anything that you did say.

--
Sam Plusnet

Re: what to say?

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From: rusty.hi...@foobar.girolle.co.uk (RustyHinge)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.sheds
Subject: Re: what to say?
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2022 20:23:24 +0100
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 by: RustyHinge - Thu, 31 Mar 2022 19:23 UTC

On 31/03/2022 18:56, Peter wrote:
> We've lived next door to an elderly couple for nearly 40 years (we're in our
> mid 70's and they're about 10 years older). She passed away last night - I
> saw the undertakers and went out - he was there with their daughter, and
> they said she had died in the early hours. I said I was sorry, etc, but
> after that I didn't know what to say. It hardly seemed appropriate to engage
> in the normal small talk that he and I normally engage in over the fence,
> and I had nothing left to say - toguetied. And it was oblody freezing so I
> muttered something about keeping warm, and went in.
>
> But I wish I'd known what else I might have said suitable to the
> circumstances.

Is ther anything I can do, don't hesitate to ask...

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

Re: what to say?

<GocOCjBQbgRiFAor@salmiron.com>

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From: nicho...@salmiron.com (Nicholas D. Richards)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.sheds
Subject: Re: what to say?
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2022 20:53:52 +0100
Organization: Salmeron and Malabuyoc
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 by: Nicholas D. Richards - Thu, 31 Mar 2022 19:53 UTC

In article <t24v3e$4bb$1@dont-email.me>, RustyHinge <rusty.hinge@foobar.
girolle.co.uk> on Thu, 31 Mar 2022 at 20:23:24 awoke Nicholas from his
slumbers and wrote
>On 31/03/2022 18:56, Peter wrote:
>> We've lived next door to an elderly couple for nearly 40 years (we're in our
>> mid 70's and they're about 10 years older). She passed away last night - I
>> saw the undertakers and went out - he was there with their daughter, and
>> they said she had died in the early hours. I said I was sorry, etc, but
>> after that I didn't know what to say. It hardly seemed appropriate to engage
>> in the normal small talk that he and I normally engage in over the fence,
>> and I had nothing left to say - toguetied. And it was oblody freezing so I
>> muttered something about keeping warm, and went in.
>>
>> But I wish I'd known what else I might have said suitable to the
>> circumstances.
>
>Is ther anything I can do, don't hesitate to ask...
>
I have always felt that is an empty and often insincere phrase.
--
0sterc@tcher -

"Où sont les neiges d'antan?"

Re: what to say?

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From: ton...@email.com (Tone)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.sheds
Subject: Re: what to say?
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2022 21:07:54 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Tone - Thu, 31 Mar 2022 20:07 UTC

On 31/03/2022 18:56, Peter wrote:
> We've lived next door to an elderly couple for nearly 40 years (we're in our
> mid 70's and they're about 10 years older). She passed away last night - I
> saw the undertakers and went out - he was there with their daughter, and
> they said she had died in the early hours. I said I was sorry, etc, but
> after that I didn't know what to say. It hardly seemed appropriate to engage
> in the normal small talk that he and I normally engage in over the fence,
> and I had nothing left to say - toguetied. And it was oblody freezing so I
> muttered something about keeping warm, and went in.
>
> But I wish I'd known what else I might have said suitable to the
> circumstances.
>

Often a sympathetic hand hold or hug speaks far louder than muttered words.

Tone

Re: what to say?

<908964391.670450079.940069.tim.downie-gmail.com@news.individual.net>

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From: tim.dow...@gmail.com (Tim+)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.sheds
Subject: Re: what to say?
Date: 31 Mar 2022 20:10:00 GMT
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 by: Tim+ - Thu, 31 Mar 2022 20:10 UTC

Nicholas D. Richards <nicholas@salmiron.com> wrote:
> In article <t24v3e$4bb$1@dont-email.me>, RustyHinge <rusty.hinge@foobar.
> girolle.co.uk> on Thu, 31 Mar 2022 at 20:23:24 awoke Nicholas from his
> slumbers and wrote
>> On 31/03/2022 18:56, Peter wrote:
>>> We've lived next door to an elderly couple for nearly 40 years (we're in our
>>> mid 70's and they're about 10 years older). She passed away last night - I
>>> saw the undertakers and went out - he was there with their daughter, and
>>> they said she had died in the early hours. I said I was sorry, etc, but
>>> after that I didn't know what to say. It hardly seemed appropriate to engage
>>> in the normal small talk that he and I normally engage in over the fence,
>>> and I had nothing left to say - toguetied. And it was oblody freezing so I
>>> muttered something about keeping warm, and went in.
>>>
>>> But I wish I'd known what else I might have said suitable to the
>>> circumstances.
>>
>> Is ther anything I can do, don't hesitate to ask...
>>
> I have always felt that is an empty and often insincere phrase.

But sometimes it’s important to use it anyway. Even an insincere phrase
can give comfort to the bereaved.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

Re: what to say?

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From: johnwill...@btinternet.com (John Williamson)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.sheds
Subject: Re: what to say?
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2022 21:16:58 +0100
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 by: John Williamson - Thu, 31 Mar 2022 20:16 UTC

On 31/03/2022 20:23, RustyHinge wrote:
> On 31/03/2022 18:56, Peter wrote:

>> But I wish I'd known what else I might have said suitable to the
>> circumstances.
>
> Is ther anything I can do, don't hesitate to ask...
>
The only sensible thing to say. And make sure you follow it up later,
after the initial panic has subsided.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

Re: what to say?

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From: nicho...@salmiron.com (Nicholas D. Richards)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.sheds
Subject: Re: what to say?
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2022 21:18:52 +0100
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 by: Nicholas D. Richards - Thu, 31 Mar 2022 20:18 UTC

In article <t251mr$p9t$2@dont-email.me>, Tone <tone@email.com> on Thu,
31 Mar 2022 at 21:07:54 awoke Nicholas from his slumbers and wrote
>On 31/03/2022 18:56, Peter wrote:
>> We've lived next door to an elderly couple for nearly 40 years (we're in our
>> mid 70's and they're about 10 years older). She passed away last night - I
>> saw the undertakers and went out - he was there with their daughter, and
>> they said she had died in the early hours. I said I was sorry, etc, but
>> after that I didn't know what to say. It hardly seemed appropriate to engage
>> in the normal small talk that he and I normally engage in over the fence,
>> and I had nothing left to say - toguetied. And it was oblody freezing so I
>> muttered something about keeping warm, and went in.
>>
>> But I wish I'd known what else I might have said suitable to the
>> circumstances.
>>
>
>Often a sympathetic hand hold or hug speaks far louder than muttered words.
>
That speaks volumes, and not a voice was raised.
--
0sterc@tcher -

"Où sont les neiges d'antan?"

Re: what to say?

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From: richa...@privacy.net (Richard Robinson)
Subject: Re: what to say?
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 by: Richard Robinson - Thu, 31 Mar 2022 20:25 UTC

Tim+ said:
> Nicholas D. Richards <nicholas@salmiron.com> wrote:
>> In article <t24v3e$4bb$1@dont-email.me>, RustyHinge <rusty.hinge@foobar.
>>>
>>> Is ther anything I can do, don't hesitate to ask...
>>>
>> I have always felt that is an empty and often insincere phrase.
>
> But sometimes it’s important to use it anyway. Even an insincere phrase
> can give comfort to the bereaved.

And who knows, they might not think it empty.

--
Richard Robinson
"The whole plan hinged upon the natural curiosity of potatoes" - S. Lem

My email address is at http://qualmograph.org.uk/contact.html

Re: what to say?

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Newsgroups: uk.rec.sheds
Subject: Re: what to say?
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 by: Ahem A Rivet's - Thu, 31 Mar 2022 20:18 UTC

On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 20:53:52 +0100
"Nicholas D. Richards" <nicholas@salmiron.com> wrote:

> In article <t24v3e$4bb$1@dont-email.me>, RustyHinge <rusty.hinge@foobar.
> girolle.co.uk> on Thu, 31 Mar 2022 at 20:23:24 awoke Nicholas from his
> slumbers and wrote
> >
> >Is ther anything I can do, don't hesitate to ask...
> >
> I have always felt that is an empty and often insincere phrase.

It is nearly always said in the sure and certain knowledge that
there isn't even when said by someone who wishes there was.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

Re: what to say?

<XnsAE6BDBC14C397Factura3476@144.76.35.252>

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From: mys...@prune.org.uk (Peter)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.sheds
Subject: Re: what to say?
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2022 20:36:12 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Peter - Thu, 31 Mar 2022 20:36 UTC

RustyHinge <rusty.hinge@foobar.girolle.co.uk> wrote in
news:t24v3e$4bb$1@dont-email.me:

> On 31/03/2022 18:56, Peter wrote:
>> We've lived next door to an elderly couple for nearly 40 years (we're
>> in our mid 70's and they're about 10 years older). She passed away
>> last night - I saw the undertakers and went out - he was there with
>> their daughter, and they said she had died in the early hours. I said
>> I was sorry, etc, but after that I didn't know what to say. It hardly
>> seemed appropriate to engage in the normal small talk that he and I
>> normally engage in over the fence, and I had nothing left to say -
>> toguetied. And it was oblody freezing so I muttered something about
>> keeping warm, and went in.
>>
>> But I wish I'd known what else I might have said suitable to the
>> circumstances.
>
> Is there anything I can do, don't hesitate to ask...
>

That did occur to me, about 5 minutes too late. But I hope it goes without
saying in our case - popping round to each others' back door is the norm.

--
Peter
-----

Re: what to say?

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From: mau...@dmaus.org (maus)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.sheds
Subject: Re: what to say?
Date: 1 Apr 2022 07:31:39 GMT
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 by: maus - Fri, 1 Apr 2022 07:31 UTC

On 2022-03-31, Tim+ <tim.downie@gmail.com> wrote:
> Nicholas D. Richards <nicholas@salmiron.com> wrote:
>> In article <t24v3e$4bb$1@dont-email.me>, RustyHinge <rusty.hinge@foobar.
>> girolle.co.uk> on Thu, 31 Mar 2022 at 20:23:24 awoke Nicholas from his
>> slumbers and wrote
>>> On 31/03/2022 18:56, Peter wrote:
>>>> We've lived next door to an elderly couple for nearly 40 years (we're in our
>>>> mid 70's and they're about 10 years older). She passed away last night - I
>>>> saw the undertakers and went out - he was there with their daughter, and
>>>> they said she had died in the early hours. I said I was sorry, etc, but
>>>> after that I didn't know what to say. It hardly seemed appropriate to engage
>>>> in the normal small talk that he and I normally engage in over the fence,
>>>> and I had nothing left to say - toguetied. And it was oblody freezing so I
>>>> muttered something about keeping warm, and went in.
>>>>
>>>> But I wish I'd known what else I might have said suitable to the
>>>> circumstances.
>>>
>>> Is ther anything I can do, don't hesitate to ask...
>>>
>> I have always felt that is an empty and often insincere phrase.
>
> But sometimes it’s important to use it anyway. Even an insincere phrase
> can give comfort to the bereaved.
>
> Tim

Agreed.
>

--
greymausg@mail.com
That's not a mousehole!

Re: what to say?

<slrnt4dalm.37b.maus@dmaus.org>

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From: mau...@dmaus.org (maus)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.sheds
Subject: Re: what to say?
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 by: maus - Fri, 1 Apr 2022 07:33 UTC

On 2022-03-31, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 20:53:52 +0100
> "Nicholas D. Richards" <nicholas@salmiron.com> wrote:
>
>> In article <t24v3e$4bb$1@dont-email.me>, RustyHinge <rusty.hinge@foobar.
>> girolle.co.uk> on Thu, 31 Mar 2022 at 20:23:24 awoke Nicholas from his
>> slumbers and wrote
>> >
>> >Is ther anything I can do, don't hesitate to ask...
>> >
>> I have always felt that is an empty and often insincere phrase.
>
> It is nearly always said in the sure and certain knowledge that
> there isn't even when said by someone who wishes there was.
>

Sounds like a quotation from Kamela Harris.

--
greymausg@mail.com
That's not a mousehole!

Re: what to say?

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Newsgroups: uk.rec.sheds
Subject: Re: what to say?
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2022 09:59:06 +0100
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 by: Ahem A Rivet's - Fri, 1 Apr 2022 08:59 UTC

On 1 Apr 2022 07:33:10 GMT
maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:

> On 2022-03-31, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> > On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 20:53:52 +0100
> > "Nicholas D. Richards" <nicholas@salmiron.com> wrote:
> >
> >> In article <t24v3e$4bb$1@dont-email.me>, RustyHinge
> >> <rusty.hinge@foobar. girolle.co.uk> on Thu, 31 Mar 2022 at 20:23:24
> >> awoke Nicholas from his slumbers and wrote
> >> >
> >> >Is ther anything I can do, don't hesitate to ask...
> >> >
> >> I have always felt that is an empty and often insincere phrase.
> >
> > It is nearly always said in the sure and certain knowledge that
> > there isn't even when said by someone who wishes there was.
> >
>
> Sounds like a quotation from Kamela Harris.

All my own worms - I goove.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

Re: what to say?

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From: inva...@invalid.com (soup)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.sheds
Subject: Re: what to say?
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2022 18:51:07 +0100
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 by: soup - Fri, 1 Apr 2022 17:51 UTC

On 31/03/2022 18:56, Peter wrote:
> We've lived next door to an elderly couple for nearly 40 years (we're in our
> mid 70's and they're about 10 years older). She passed away last night - I
> saw the undertakers and went out - he was there with their daughter, and
> they said she had died in the early hours. I said I was sorry, etc, but
> after that I didn't know what to say. It hardly seemed appropriate to engage
> in the normal small talk that he and I normally engage in over the fence,
> and I had nothing left to say - toguetied. And it was oblody freezing so I
> muttered something about keeping warm, and went in.
>
> But I wish I'd known what else I might have said suitable to the
> circumstances.

Nothing, just be there.

When my wife died I 'bumped into' my Doctor on the street, he knows me
well ( though it is a huge medical practice rather than a GPs surgery) .
Must have been on my notes or something I hadn't told him. He said "ah
sad times indeed " then said a few other things to be honest I didn't
really hear what he said next(or at least can't remember).
I feel that everyone will be the same they are not listening to the
actual words rather they remember how you said it. Hope the awkwardness
doesn't last too long

Re: what to say?

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From: ste...@eircom.net (Ahem A Rivet's Shot)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.sheds
Subject: Re: what to say?
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 by: Ahem A Rivet's - Fri, 1 Apr 2022 18:04 UTC

On Fri, 1 Apr 2022 18:51:07 +0100
soup <invalid@invalid.com> wrote:

> I feel that everyone will be the same they are not listening to the
> actual words rather they remember how you said it. Hope the awkwardness
> doesn't last too long

I think that is very likely true - I certainly didn't retain
anything anyone said to me at my wife's funeral.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

Re: what to say?

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From: mys...@prune.org.uk (Peter)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.sheds
Subject: Re: what to say?
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2022 09:30:29 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Peter - Sat, 2 Apr 2022 09:30 UTC

Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote in
news:20220401190433.5cb4b6146ef3c534a07ea8e3@eircom.net:

> On Fri, 1 Apr 2022 18:51:07 +0100
> soup <invalid@invalid.com> wrote:
>
>> I feel that everyone will be the same they are not listening to the
>> actual words rather they remember how you said it. Hope the awkwardness
>> doesn't last too long
>
> I think that is very likely true - I certainly didn't retain
> anything anyone said to me at my wife's funeral.
Thanks, that's reassuring. I'll pop next door today to see if he's in,
though I suspect that his daughter will have whisked him away for a while.

--
Peter
-----

Re: what to say?

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 by: maus - Sat, 2 Apr 2022 10:40 UTC

On 2022-04-02, Peter <myshed@prune.org.uk> wrote:
> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote in
> news:20220401190433.5cb4b6146ef3c534a07ea8e3@eircom.net:
>
>> On Fri, 1 Apr 2022 18:51:07 +0100
>> soup <invalid@invalid.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I feel that everyone will be the same they are not listening to the
>>> actual words rather they remember how you said it. Hope the awkwardness
>>> doesn't last too long
>>
>> I think that is very likely true - I certainly didn't retain
>> anything anyone said to me at my wife's funeral.
>
> Thanks, that's reassuring. I'll pop next door today to see if he's in,
> though I suspect that his daughter will have whisked him away for a while.
>
>

I can very well remember what was said at my Wife's funeral, and who
said what..`

--
greymausg@mail.com
That's not a mousehole!

Re: what to say?

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From: nos...@b-howie.co.uk (Brian Howie)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.sheds
Subject: Re: what to say?
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 by: Brian Howie - Sat, 2 Apr 2022 13:20 UTC

On 31/03/2022 20:53, Nicholas D. Richards wrote:
> In article <t24v3e$4bb$1@dont-email.me>, RustyHinge <rusty.hinge@foobar.
> girolle.co.uk> on Thu, 31 Mar 2022 at 20:23:24 awoke Nicholas from his
> slumbers and wrote
>> On 31/03/2022 18:56, Peter wrote:
>>> We've lived next door to an elderly couple for nearly 40 years (we're in our
>>> mid 70's and they're about 10 years older). She passed away last night - I
>>> saw the undertakers and went out - he was there with their daughter, and
>>> they said she had died in the early hours. I said I was sorry, etc, but
>>> after that I didn't know what to say. It hardly seemed appropriate to engage
>>> in the normal small talk that he and I normally engage in over the fence,
>>> and I had nothing left to say - toguetied. And it was oblody freezing so I
>>> muttered something about keeping warm, and went in.
>>>
>>> But I wish I'd known what else I might have said suitable to the
>>> circumstances.
>>
>> Is ther anything I can do, don't hesitate to ask...
>>
> I have always felt that is an empty and often insincere phrase.

My wife passed away in December. The same week I had a broken dishwasher
and security light and my car failed its MOT. I had couple of offers of
help like this and was tempted to ask if they knew anything about
dishwashers ,security lights or cars. I told this to my daughter who
laughed. She shares the same dark sense of humour.

Brian

--
Brian

Re: what to say?

<putn4hhc2r2pdcqcfi7e796g4acet4ai6o@4ax.com>

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From: prufer.p...@mnet-online.de.invalid (Thomas Prufer)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.sheds
Subject: Re: what to say?
Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2022 10:06:16 +0200
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 by: Thomas Prufer - Tue, 5 Apr 2022 08:06 UTC

On Sat, 2 Apr 2022 14:20:03 +0100, Brian Howie <nospam@b-howie.co.uk> wrote:

>My wife passed away in December. The same week I had a broken dishwasher
>and security light and my car failed its MOT. I had couple of offers of
>help like this and was tempted to ask if they knew anything about
>dishwashers ,security lights or cars. I told this to my daughter who
>laughed. She shares the same dark sense of humour.

Eh? I'd consider a broken dishwasher, a security light and a MOT failure
(depending on why) easy fixes, especially compared to offering true solace.

Thomas Prufer

Re: what to say?

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From: nos...@b-howie.co.uk (Brian Howie)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.sheds
Subject: Re: what to say?
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2022 13:03:29 +0100
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 by: Brian Howie - Thu, 7 Apr 2022 12:03 UTC

On 05/04/2022 09:06, Thomas Prufer wrote:
> On Sat, 2 Apr 2022 14:20:03 +0100, Brian Howie <nospam@b-howie.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> My wife passed away in December. The same week I had a broken dishwasher
>> and security light and my car failed its MOT. I had couple of offers of
>> help like this and was tempted to ask if they knew anything about
>> dishwashers ,security lights or cars. I told this to my daughter who
>> laughed. She shares the same dark sense of humour.
>
> Eh? I'd consider a broken dishwasher, a security light and a MOT failure
> (depending on why) easy fixes, especially compared to offering true solace.
>
> Thomas Prufer

Yes, these would normally be easy fixes I'd take in my stride, but in
the situation I was in, they became insurmountable obstacles. It was
near Xmas ,which made everything a lot harder to deal with. You can't
concentrate on anything at all.

I eventually got everything fixed, without the little old lady next door
crawling under the dishwasher.

B
--
Brian

Re: what to say?

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 by: Sam Plusnet - Thu, 7 Apr 2022 20:56 UTC

On 07-Apr-22 13:03, Brian Howie wrote:
>
> I eventually got everything fixed, without the little old lady next door
> crawling under the dishwasher.

??

I take it that you wouldn't have added that bit, unless there was some
danger of it becoming true?

--
Sam Plusnet

1
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