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aus+uk / uk.comp.os.linux / Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, rest is slooow!

SubjectAuthor
* Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, rest isJava Jive
+- Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, restiKook
+- Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, restPaul
+- Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, restJoerg Lorenz
+- Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, rest is slooow!Charlie+
+* Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, restPancho
|`* Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, restCarlos E.R.
| `* Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning,Anton Shepelev
|  `- Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, restCarlos E.R.
+- Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, restAndy Burns
+* Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, rest is slooow!VanguardLH
|`- Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, restJava Jive
+* Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, restJava Jive
|`- Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, restCarlos E.R.
`* Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, rest is slooow!Ant
 `* Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, restPaul
  `* Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, rest is slooow!Ant
   +- Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, restPaul
   `* Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, restRavi Kapoor
    +* Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, restCarlos E.R.
    |+* Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, restRavi Kapoor
    ||+* Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, restJava Jive
    |||+- Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, rest is slooow!Char Jackson
    |||+- Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning,Dan Purgert
    |||`- Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, rest is slooow!Ken Blake
    ||`- Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, restCarlos E.R.
    |+* Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, restPaul
    ||`* Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, restCarlos E.R.
    || `* Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, restDaniel65
    ||  +* Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, restCarlos E.R.
    ||  |`- Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, restDaniel65
    ||  `- Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning,Dan Purgert
    |+* Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, rest is slooow!Ken Blake
    ||+* Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, restCarlos E.R.
    |||`* Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, rest is slooow!Ken Blake
    ||| +* Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, restCarlos E.R.
    ||| |`- Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, rest is slooow!Ken Blake
    ||| +- Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, restDaniel65
    ||| `* Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, restPancho
    |||  +- Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, restCarlos E. R.
    |||  +* Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, rest is slooow!Richard Kettlewell
    |||  |`* Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, restPancho
    |||  | +* Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, rest is slooow!Richard Kettlewell
    |||  | |`* Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, restPancho
    |||  | | `- Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, rest is slooow!Richard Kettlewell
    |||  | `* Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, rest is slooow!Ken Blake
    |||  |  `* Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, restPancho
    |||  |   +- Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, rest is slooow!Ken Blake
    |||  |   +- Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, restDaniel65
    |||  |   `* Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, restCarlos E.R.
    |||  |    `* Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, rest is slooow!Ken Blake
    |||  |     `* Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, restCarlos E. R.
    |||  |      `* Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, restDaniel65
    |||  |       `* Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, rest is slooow!Ken Blake
    |||  |        `* Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, restCarlos E. R.
    |||  |         `* Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, restjjb
    |||  |          `- Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning,Eric Pozharski
    |||  +* Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, rest is slooow!Ken Blake
    |||  |`* Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, restCarlos E. R.
    |||  | `* Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, rest is slooow!Ken Blake
    |||  |  `* Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, restCarlos E.R.
    |||  |   `* Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, rest is slooow!Ken Blake
    |||  |    `- Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, restCarlos E.R.
    |||  `* Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, restPaul
    |||   `- Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, restPancho
    ||`- Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, restDaniel65
    |`* Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, rest is slooow!Richard Kettlewell
    | `- Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, rest is slooow!Ken Blake
    `- Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, rest is slooow!Ken Blake

Pages:123
Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, rest is slooow!

<s8fbthd1dk1cfbt99t6ore9e8li3m5dvo4@4ax.com>

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From: non...@none.invalid (Char Jackson)
Newsgroups: alt.windows7.general,uk.comp.os.linux,alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, rest is slooow!
Message-ID: <s8fbthd1dk1cfbt99t6ore9e8li3m5dvo4@4ax.com>
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 by: Char Jackson - Sun, 29 Jan 2023 00:27 UTC

On Sat, 28 Jan 2023 23:06:07 +0000, Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid>
wrote:

>On 28/01/2023 22:30, Ravi Kapoor wrote:
>>
>> On 28/01/2023 21:51, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>
>>> The industry has very clear that 1 GiB = 1024 MiB, and 1 GB = 1000 MB.
>>>
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byte#Multiple-byte_units>
>>>
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigabyte#Consumer_confusion>
>>
>> So you are very clever here. How do you work out 256GB = 231GB? Use your
>> figures to demonstrate this, Mr Clever.
>>
>> (256 x 1000) / 1024 = 250
>>
>> How does 250 compare with 231? You can reconcile the figures for us to
>> understand better.
>
>'The industry', whatever exactly that means, may say one thing, but what
>really matters is what people do, and the fact remains that I rarely see
>GiB in practice, and OSs do one thing while disk manufacturers do another.
>
>In OSs, and BTW this is also what I was taught in academia, ...
> 1KB = 1024 bytes
> 1MB = 1024 KB
> 1GB = 1024 MB
>... but to storage manufacturers ...
> 1KB = 1000 bytes
> 1MB = 1000 of their KB
> 1GB = 1000 of their MB
>
>Hence to convert disk manufacturers' GB figures to OS' GB figures, you
>have to multiply by (1000/1024)^3, giving ...
> 256 (manufacturer) GB x 1000^3 / 1024^3 = 238 (OS) GB
>
>Then there will be some file system overhead to deduct after that.

Thanks for providing the actual formula. All these years I just use 93%
and call it good. The formula would put it at 93.1322574615478515625%.

Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, rest is slooow!

<rlrhajxu7d.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>

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From: robin_li...@es.invalid (Carlos E.R.)
Newsgroups: alt.windows7.general,alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, rest
is slooow!
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2023 10:42:51 +0100
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 by: Carlos E.R. - Sun, 29 Jan 2023 09:42 UTC

On 2023-01-29 01:17, Paul wrote:
> On 1/28/2023 4:51 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> On 2023-01-28 21:30, Ravi Kapoor wrote:
>>> On 28/01/2023 08:16, Ant wrote:
>>>> In alt.os.linux Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> On 1/27/2023 6:41 PM, Ant wrote:
>>>>>> It's hard to find good reviews on these USB flash sticks. I still
>>>>>> have
>>>>>> old 128 MB that STILL work today.
>>>>> That's because it is SLC.
>>>> https://www.kingston.com/en/blog/pc-performance/difference-between-slc-mlc-tlc-3d-nand
>>>> was an interesting read.
>>> Have the flash industry managed to sort out the size of 1GB yet? I
>>> bought a 256GB flash drive sometime ago but it had only 231GB. People
>>> told me that it is because nobody uses correct measurement yet. Is 1GB =
>>> 1000MB or is it 1024MB. I have not been able to reconcile how 256GB is
>>> only 231GB when reformatted as NTFS or exFAT (default). I lost 25GB
>>> unnecessarily.
>>
>> There is no confusion at all, except for you. You have to study and
>> learn the different units.
>>
>> The industry has very clear that 1 GiB = 1024 MiB, and 1 GB = 1000 MB.
>>
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byte#Multiple-byte_units>
>>
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigabyte#Consumer_confusion>
>>
>
> The legends on packaging and on computer screens can be wrong,
> so the blame is not always with the user. They switch between GB and GiB
> in a willy-nilly fashion.

Yes, that's true, unfortunately. But once you are aware that there are
two different unit multipliers, and that some use confusing legends, you
can figure out which they are using.

>
> If I pipe dd to wc -c , I can count the bytes that way :-)
>
> When I use slightly more efficient methods, this is what I get
>
> "128GB" stick = 128,983,236,608 bytes    [they are using the decimal
> method like HDD do]
> "1GB" stick   =   1,006,108,672 bytes    [they are using the decimal
> method like HDD do]
>
> Then the computer screen does the math for GiB, but prints "GB" next
> to the resulting number. Unnecessarily scaring the user.

The October 2021 version of the dd manual says:

N and BYTES may be followed by the following multiplicative
suffixes: c=1, w=2, b=512, kB=1000, K=1024, MB=1000*1000, M=1024*1024,
xM=M, GB=1000*1000*1000, G=1024*1024*1024, and so on for T, P, E, Z, Y.
Binary prefixes can be used, too: KiB=K, MiB=M, and so on.

which is not what they were doing previously. The February 2018 edition
says instead:

N and BYTES may be followed by the following
multiplicative suffixes: c =1, w =2, b =512, kB =1000, K =1024, MB
=1000*1000, M =1024*1024, xM =M, GB =1000*1000*1000, G =1024*1024*1024,
and so on for T, P, E, Z, Y.

The new version does:

cer@Telcontar:~> dd if=/dev/zero of=test.dd count=1000 bs=1000
1000+0 records in
1000+0 records out
1000000 bytes (1,0 MB, 977 KiB) copied, 0,00394632 s, 253 MB/s
cer@Telcontar:~> dd if=/dev/zero of=test.dd count=1024 bs=1024
1024+0 records in
1024+0 records out
1048576 bytes (1,0 MB, 1,0 MiB) copied, 0,00561859 s, 187 MB/s
cer@Telcontar:~>

cer@Telcontar:~> dd if=/dev/zero of=test.dd count=1000 bs=1000000
1000+0 records in
1000+0 records out
1000000000 bytes (1,0 GB, 954 MiB) copied, 0,499733 s, 2,0 GB/s
cer@Telcontar:~>

The old version does:

cer@Isengard:~> dd if=/dev/zero of=test.dd count=1000 bs=1000
1000+0 records in
1000+0 records out
1000000 bytes (1.0 MB, 977 KiB) copied, 0.0131062 s, 76.3 MB/s
cer@Isengard:~> dd if=/dev/zero of=test.dd count=1024 bs=1024
1024+0 records in
1024+0 records out
1048576 bytes (1.0 MB, 1.0 MiB) copied, 0.0133418 s, 78.6 MB/s
cer@Isengard:~>

cer@Isengard:~> dd if=/dev/zero of=test.dd count=1000 bs=1000000
1000+0 records in
1000+0 records out
1000000000 bytes (1.0 GB, 954 MiB) copied, 2.66717 s, 375 MB/s
cer@Isengard:~>

At this moment I don't see how to choose units.

> The above numbers, do not involve any file systems, so these sample
> numbers are not a side effect of "formatting". These numbers
> are collected from the physical layer.

Yes.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, rest is slooow!

<slrnttcpli.qnu.dan@djph.net>

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Newsgroups: alt.windows7.general,uk.comp.os.linux,alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning,
rest is slooow!
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 by: Dan Purgert - Sun, 29 Jan 2023 12:28 UTC

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Hash: SHA512

["Followup-To:" header set to alt.os.linux.]
On 2023-01-28, Java Jive wrote:
> On 28/01/2023 22:30, Ravi Kapoor wrote:
>>
>> On 28/01/2023 21:51, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>
>>> The industry has very clear that 1 GiB = 1024 MiB, and 1 GB = 1000 MB.
>>>
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byte#Multiple-byte_units>
>>>
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigabyte#Consumer_confusion>
>>
>> So you are very clever here. How do you work out 256GB = 231GB? Use your
>> figures to demonstrate this, Mr Clever.
>>
>> (256 x 1000) / 1024 = 250
>>
>> How does 250 compare with 231? You can reconcile the figures for us to
>> understand better.
>
> 'The industry', whatever exactly that means, may say one thing, but what
> really matters is what people do, and the fact remains that I rarely see
> GiB in practice, and OSs do one thing while disk manufacturers do another.
>
> In OSs, and BTW this is also what I was taught in academia, ...
> 1KB = 1024 bytes
> 1MB = 1024 KB
> 1GB = 1024 MB
> ... but to storage manufacturers ...
> 1KB = 1000 bytes
> 1MB = 1000 of their KB
> 1GB = 1000 of their MB

Sure, up to about 20 years ago, or thereabouts, culminating in a 2008
IEC standard (IEC 80000-13:2008) to use the base-2 powers (kibi, mebi,
etc.). This was in part due to general confusion that the SI prefixes
really do mean base-10; and the growing disparity between base-2 and
base-10 --- as I recall 2.5% at kilo/kibi; and increasing every marked
order of magnitude (so 5% at mebi/mega ; 7.5% at gibi/giga ; 10% at
tebi/tera, and so on).

"Marketing" will quite likely continue to use base-10, because it makes
the numbers bigger. I was hopeful that with the move to base-2
numbering for SSDs, we were gonna see a move in accuracy on the box, but
that didn't happen :(

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--
|_|O|_|
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: DDAB 23FB 19FA 7D85 1CC1 E067 6D65 70E5 4CE7 2860

Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, rest is slooow!

<7b0dth5luf1v0iv0jvlsl6tr0qovlstn0k@4ax.com>

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Newsgroups: alt.windows7.general,uk.comp.os.linux,alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, rest is slooow!
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 by: Ken Blake - Sun, 29 Jan 2023 14:24 UTC

On Sat, 28 Jan 2023 23:06:07 +0000, Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid>
wrote:

>On 28/01/2023 22:30, Ravi Kapoor wrote:
>>
>> On 28/01/2023 21:51, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>
>>> The industry has very clear that 1 GiB = 1024 MiB, and 1 GB = 1000 MB.
>>>
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byte#Multiple-byte_units>
>>>
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigabyte#Consumer_confusion>
>>
>> So you are very clever here. How do you work out 256GB = 231GB? Use your
>> figures to demonstrate this, Mr Clever.
>>
>> (256 x 1000) / 1024 = 250
>>
>> How does 250 compare with 231? You can reconcile the figures for us to
>> understand better.
>
>'The industry', whatever exactly that means, may say one thing, but what
>really matters is what people do, and the fact remains that I rarely see
>GiB in practice, and OSs do one thing while disk manufacturers do another.

Yes to everything in that paragraph.

Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, rest is slooow!

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From: Ken...@invalid.news.com (Ken Blake)
Newsgroups: alt.windows7.general,alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, rest is slooow!
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2023 07:27:38 -0700
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 by: Ken Blake - Sun, 29 Jan 2023 14:27 UTC

On Sat, 28 Jan 2023 22:51:28 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

>On 2023-01-28 21:30, Ravi Kapoor wrote:
>> On 28/01/2023 08:16, Ant wrote:
>>> In alt.os.linux Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On 1/27/2023 6:41 PM, Ant wrote:
>>>>> It's hard to find good reviews on these USB flash sticks. I still have
>>>>> old 128 MB that STILL work today.
>>>> That's because it is SLC.
>>> https://www.kingston.com/en/blog/pc-performance/difference-between-slc-mlc-tlc-3d-nand
>>> was an interesting read.
>> Have the flash industry managed to sort out the size of 1GB yet? I
>> bought a 256GB flash drive sometime ago but it had only 231GB. People
>> told me that it is because nobody uses correct measurement yet. Is 1GB >> 1000MB or is it 1024MB. I have not been able to reconcile how 256GB is
>> only 231GB when reformatted as NTFS or exFAT (default). I lost 25GB
>> unnecessarily.
>
>There is no confusion at all, except for you. You have to study and
>learn the different units.
>
>The industry has very clear that 1 GiB = 1024 MiB, and 1 GB = 1000 MB.

I don't agree. It may be clear to you and to me, and to others here,
but most people have never heard of GiB or MiB.

Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, rest is slooow!

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From: robin_li...@es.invalid (Carlos E.R.)
Newsgroups: alt.windows7.general,alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, rest
is slooow!
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 by: Carlos E.R. - Sun, 29 Jan 2023 17:43 UTC

On 2023-01-29 15:27, Ken Blake wrote:
> On Sat, 28 Jan 2023 22:51:28 +0100, "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2023-01-28 21:30, Ravi Kapoor wrote:
>>> On 28/01/2023 08:16, Ant wrote:
>>>> In alt.os.linux Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> On 1/27/2023 6:41 PM, Ant wrote:
>>>>>> It's hard to find good reviews on these USB flash sticks. I still have
>>>>>> old 128 MB that STILL work today.
>>>>> That's because it is SLC.
>>>> https://www.kingston.com/en/blog/pc-performance/difference-between-slc-mlc-tlc-3d-nand
>>>> was an interesting read.
>>> Have the flash industry managed to sort out the size of 1GB yet? I
>>> bought a 256GB flash drive sometime ago but it had only 231GB. People
>>> told me that it is because nobody uses correct measurement yet. Is 1GB =
>>> 1000MB or is it 1024MB. I have not been able to reconcile how 256GB is
>>> only 231GB when reformatted as NTFS or exFAT (default). I lost 25GB
>>> unnecessarily.
>>
>> There is no confusion at all, except for you. You have to study and
>> learn the different units.
>>
>> The industry has very clear that 1 GiB = 1024 MiB, and 1 GB = 1000 MB.
>
>
> I don't agree. It may be clear to you and to me, and to others here,
> but most people have never heard of GiB or MiB.

Then learn.

The computer industry have done it wrong for decades (looking at
Microsoft and others).

--
Cheers, Carlos.

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From: danie...@nomail.afraid.org (Daniel65)
Newsgroups: alt.windows7.general,alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, rest
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 by: Daniel65 - Mon, 30 Jan 2023 10:17 UTC

Carlos E.R. wrote on 29/1/23 8:42 pm:

<Snip>

> The October 2021 version of the dd manual says:
>
>        N  and  BYTES  may be followed by the following multiplicative
> suffixes: c=1, w=2, b=512, kB=1000, K=1024, MB=1000*1000, M=1024*1024,
> xM=M, GB=1000*1000*1000, G=1024*1024*1024, and so on for T,  P, E, Z, Y.
>  Binary prefixes can be used, too: KiB=K, MiB=M, and so on.
>
> which is not what they were doing previously. The February 2018 edition
> says instead:
>
>        N  and  BYTES  may  be  followed  by the following
> multiplicative suffixes: c =1, w =2, b =512, kB =1000, K =1024, MB
> =1000*1000, M =1024*1024, xM =M, GB =1000*1000*1000, G =1024*1024*1024,
> and  so on for T, P, E, Z, Y.

Hmm!! Might be Picky! Picky! but shouldn't ....

"N and BYTES may be followed by the following multiplicative
suffixes: ...."

really be ....

"N and BYTES may be *preceded* by the following multiplicative
suffixes: ...."

??
--
Daniel

Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, rest is slooow!

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From: danie...@nomail.afraid.org (Daniel65)
Newsgroups: alt.windows7.general,alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, rest
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 by: Daniel65 - Mon, 30 Jan 2023 10:27 UTC

Ken Blake wrote on 30/1/23 1:27 am:
> On Sat, 28 Jan 2023 22:51:28 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
> <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2023-01-28 21:30, Ravi Kapoor wrote:
>>> On 28/01/2023 08:16, Ant wrote:
>>>> In alt.os.linux Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> On 1/27/2023 6:41 PM, Ant wrote:
>>>>>> It's hard to find good reviews on these USB flash sticks. I
>>>>>> still have old 128 MB that STILL work today.
>>>>> That's because it is SLC.
>>>> https://www.kingston.com/en/blog/pc-performance/difference-between-slc-mlc-tlc-3d-nand
>>>>
>>>> was an interesting read.
>>> Have the flash industry managed to sort out the size of 1GB yet?
>>> I bought a 256GB flash drive sometime ago but it had only 231GB.
>>> People told me that it is because nobody uses correct measurement
>>> yet. Is 1GB = 1000MB or is it 1024MB. I have not been able to
>>> reconcile how 256GB is only 231GB when reformatted as NTFS or
>>> exFAT (default). I lost 25GB unnecessarily.
>>
>> There is no confusion at all, except for you. You have to study
>> and learn the different units.
>>
>> The industry has very clear that 1 GiB = 1024 MiB, and 1 GB = 1000
>> MB.
>
> I don't agree. It may be clear to you and to me, and to others here,
> but most people have never heard of GiB or MiB.

I've heard/read of them both .... but am never confident which is
Decimal and which is Binary. At times I think it varies dependant on who
is speaking!!
--
Daniel

Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, rest is slooow!

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From: robin_li...@es.invalid (Carlos E.R.)
Newsgroups: alt.windows7.general,alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, rest
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 by: Carlos E.R. - Mon, 30 Jan 2023 10:58 UTC

On 2023-01-30 11:17, Daniel65 wrote:
> Carlos E.R. wrote on 29/1/23 8:42 pm:
>
> <Snip>
>
>> The October 2021 version of the dd manual says:
>>
>>         N  and  BYTES  may be followed by the following multiplicative
>> suffixes: c=1, w=2, b=512, kB=1000, K=1024, MB=1000*1000, M=1024*1024,
>> xM=M, GB=1000*1000*1000, G=1024*1024*1024, and so on for T,  P, E, Z,
>> Y.   Binary prefixes can be used, too: KiB=K, MiB=M, and so on.
>>
>> which is not what they were doing previously. The February 2018
>> edition says instead:
>>
>>         N  and  BYTES  may  be  followed  by the following
>> multiplicative suffixes: c =1, w =2, b =512, kB =1000, K =1024, MB
>> =1000*1000, M =1024*1024, xM =M, GB =1000*1000*1000, G
>> =1024*1024*1024, and  so on for T, P, E, Z, Y.
>
> Hmm!! Might be Picky! Picky! but shouldn't ....
>
> "N  and  BYTES  may be followed by the following multiplicative
> suffixes: ...."
>
> really be ....
>
> "N  and  BYTES  may be *preceded* by the following multiplicative
> suffixes: ...."
>
> ??

Tell them :-)

--
Cheers, Carlos.

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Newsgroups: alt.windows7.general,alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning,
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 by: Dan Purgert - Mon, 30 Jan 2023 12:01 UTC

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

["Followup-To:" header set to alt.os.linux.]
On 2023-01-30, Daniel65 wrote:
> Carlos E.R. wrote on 29/1/23 8:42 pm:
>
><Snip>
>
>> The October 2021 version of the dd manual says:
>>
>>        N  and  BYTES  may be followed by the following multiplicative
>> suffixes: c=1, w=2, b=512, kB=1000, K=1024, MB=1000*1000, M=1024*1024,
>> xM=M, GB=1000*1000*1000, G=1024*1024*1024, and so on for T,  P, E, Z, Y.
>>  Binary prefixes can be used, too: KiB=K, MiB=M, and so on.
>>
>> which is not what they were doing previously. The February 2018 edition
>> says instead:
>>
>>        N  and  BYTES  may  be  followed  by the following
>> multiplicative suffixes: c =1, w =2, b =512, kB =1000, K =1024, MB
>> =1000*1000, M =1024*1024, xM =M, GB =1000*1000*1000, G =1024*1024*1024,
>> and  so on for T, P, E, Z, Y.
>
> Hmm!! Might be Picky! Picky! but shouldn't ....
>
> "N and BYTES may be followed by the following multiplicative
> suffixes: ...."
>
> really be ....
>
> "N and BYTES may be *preceded* by the following multiplicative
> suffixes: ...."

No, the original language is correct. You don't write "MB100" .

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--
|_|O|_|
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: DDAB 23FB 19FA 7D85 1CC1 E067 6D65 70E5 4CE7 2860

Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, rest is slooow!

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From: danie...@nomail.afraid.org (Daniel65)
Newsgroups: alt.windows7.general,alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, rest
is slooow!
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2023 23:28:31 +1100
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 by: Daniel65 - Mon, 30 Jan 2023 12:28 UTC

Carlos E.R. wrote on 30/1/23 9:58 pm:
> On 2023-01-30 11:17, Daniel65 wrote:
>> Carlos E.R. wrote on 29/1/23 8:42 pm:
>>
>> <Snip>
>>
>>> The October 2021 version of the dd manual says:
>>>
>>>         N  and  BYTES  may be followed by the following
>>> multiplicative suffixes: c=1, w=2, b=512, kB=1000, K=1024,
>>> MB=1000*1000, M=1024*1024, xM=M, GB=1000*1000*1000, G=1024*1024*1024,
>>> and so on for T,  P, E, Z, Y.   Binary prefixes can be used, too:
>>> KiB=K, MiB=M, and so on.
>>>
>>> which is not what they were doing previously. The February 2018
>>> edition says instead:
>>>
>>>         N  and  BYTES  may  be  followed  by the following
>>> multiplicative suffixes: c =1, w =2, b =512, kB =1000, K =1024, MB
>>> =1000*1000, M =1024*1024, xM =M, GB =1000*1000*1000, G
>>> =1024*1024*1024, and  so on for T, P, E, Z, Y.
>>
>> Hmm!! Might be Picky! Picky! but shouldn't ....
>>
>> "N  and  BYTES  may be followed by the following multiplicative
>> suffixes: ...."
>>
>> really be ....
>>
>> "N  and  BYTES  may be *preceded* by the following multiplicative
>> suffixes: ...."
>>
>> ??
>
> Tell them :-)
>
Oh!! Dear!! So you mean I may have been doing it wrong all these years!!
--
Daniel

Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, rest is slooow!

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From: Ken...@invalid.news.com (Ken Blake)
Newsgroups: alt.windows7.general,alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, rest is slooow!
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2023 11:10:01 -0700
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 by: Ken Blake - Mon, 30 Jan 2023 18:10 UTC

On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 18:43:57 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

>On 2023-01-29 15:27, Ken Blake wrote:
>> On Sat, 28 Jan 2023 22:51:28 +0100, "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

>>> The industry has very clear that 1 GiB = 1024 MiB, and 1 GB = 1000 MB.
>>
>>
>> I don't agree. It may be clear to you and to me, and to others here,
>> but most people have never heard of GiB or MiB.
>
>Then learn.
>
>The computer industry have done it wrong for decades (looking at
>Microsoft and others).

Many English words, phrases, and abbreviations have been used
incorrectly for much longer than decades. But after a while their new
usage gets established, and nearly everyone uses it. What was once
wrong doesn't remain wrong forever. That's the nature of language; it
changes.

So as far as I'm concerned, despite the existing standards, KB mean
1024, MB means 1024 x 1024, GB means 1024 x 1024 x 1024, etc. and KiB,
MiB, Gib, etc. are almost never used and shouldn't be. A disk drive
that's called 2GB should have 2,147,483,648 bytes, not 2,000,000,000.

Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, rest is slooow!

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From: inva...@invalid.invalid (Richard Kettlewell)
Newsgroups: alt.windows7.general,alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, rest is slooow!
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2023 18:36:32 +0000
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 by: Richard Kettlewell - Mon, 30 Jan 2023 18:36 UTC

"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> writes:
> On 2023-01-28 21:30, Ravi Kapoor wrote:
>> Have the flash industry managed to sort out the size of 1GB yet? I
>> bought a 256GB flash drive sometime ago but it had only 231GB. People
>> told me that it is because nobody uses correct measurement yet. Is 1GB =
>> 1000MB or is it 1024MB. I have not been able to reconcile how 256GB is
>> only 231GB when reformatted as NTFS or exFAT (default). I lost 25GB
>> unnecessarily.
>
> There is no confusion at all, except for you. You have to study and
> learn the different units.
>
> The industry has very clear that 1 GiB = 1024 MiB, and 1 GB = 1000 MB.
>
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byte#Multiple-byte_units>
>
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigabyte#Consumer_confusion>

The storage industry, yes. But RAM is still routinely sold with
1GB=2^30bytes, leading to the rather bizarre situation where a laptop
spec might claim, for example, 16GB RAM and 512GB SSD, with different
meanings for GB in each case.

--
https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, rest is slooow!

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From: Ken...@invalid.news.com (Ken Blake)
Newsgroups: alt.windows7.general,alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, rest is slooow!
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2023 12:18:16 -0700
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 by: Ken Blake - Mon, 30 Jan 2023 19:18 UTC

On Mon, 30 Jan 2023 18:36:32 +0000, Richard Kettlewell
<invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> writes:
>> On 2023-01-28 21:30, Ravi Kapoor wrote:
>>> Have the flash industry managed to sort out the size of 1GB yet? I
>>> bought a 256GB flash drive sometime ago but it had only 231GB. People
>>> told me that it is because nobody uses correct measurement yet. Is 1GB >>> 1000MB or is it 1024MB. I have not been able to reconcile how 256GB is
>>> only 231GB when reformatted as NTFS or exFAT (default). I lost 25GB
>>> unnecessarily.
>>
>> There is no confusion at all, except for you. You have to study and
>> learn the different units.
>>
>> The industry has very clear that 1 GiB = 1024 MiB, and 1 GB = 1000 MB.
>>
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byte#Multiple-byte_units>
>>
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigabyte#Consumer_confusion>
>
>The storage industry, yes. But RAM is still routinely sold with
>1GB=2^30bytes, leading to the rather bizarre situation where a laptop
>spec might claim, for example, 16GB RAM and 512GB SSD, with different
>meanings for GB in each case.

Yes. I never thought of that before, but it is bizarre.

Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, rest is slooow!

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From: robin_li...@es.invalid (Carlos E.R.)
Newsgroups: alt.windows7.general,alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, rest
is slooow!
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2023 11:09:18 +0100
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In-Reply-To: <f51gthdd5g2tbpgisot4hgftco0lb315ov@4ax.com>
 by: Carlos E.R. - Tue, 31 Jan 2023 10:09 UTC

On 2023-01-30 19:10, Ken Blake wrote:
> On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 18:43:57 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
> <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 2023-01-29 15:27, Ken Blake wrote:
>>> On Sat, 28 Jan 2023 22:51:28 +0100, "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>
>>>> The industry has very clear that 1 GiB = 1024 MiB, and 1 GB = 1000 MB.
>>>
>>>
>>> I don't agree. It may be clear to you and to me, and to others here,
>>> but most people have never heard of GiB or MiB.
>>
>> Then learn.
>>
>> The computer industry have done it wrong for decades (looking at
>> Microsoft and others).
>
>
> Many English words, phrases, and abbreviations have been used
> incorrectly for much longer than decades. But after a while their new
> usage gets established, and nearly everyone uses it. What was once
> wrong doesn't remain wrong forever. That's the nature of language; it
> changes.
>
> So as far as I'm concerned, despite the existing standards, KB mean
> 1024, MB means 1024 x 1024, GB means 1024 x 1024 x 1024, etc. and KiB,
> MiB, Gib, etc. are almost never used and shouldn't be. A disk drive
> that's called 2GB should have 2,147,483,648 bytes, not 2,000,000,000.

Well, that has decreed wrong.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, rest is slooow!

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From: danie...@nomail.afraid.org (Daniel65)
Newsgroups: alt.windows7.general,alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, rest
is slooow!
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2023 21:27:12 +1100
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In-Reply-To: <f51gthdd5g2tbpgisot4hgftco0lb315ov@4ax.com>
 by: Daniel65 - Tue, 31 Jan 2023 10:27 UTC

Ken Blake wrote on 31/1/23 5:10 am:
> On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 18:43:57 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
> <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2023-01-29 15:27, Ken Blake wrote:
>>> On Sat, 28 Jan 2023 22:51:28 +0100, "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>
>>>> The industry has very clear that 1 GiB = 1024 MiB, and 1 GB = 1000 MB.
>>>
>>> I don't agree. It may be clear to you and to me, and to others here,
>>> but most people have never heard of GiB or MiB.
>>
>> Then learn.
>>
>> The computer industry have done it wrong for decades (looking at
>> Microsoft and others).
>
> Many English words, phrases, and abbreviations have been used
> incorrectly for much longer than decades. But after a while their new
> usage gets established, and nearly everyone uses it. What was once
> wrong doesn't remain wrong forever. That's the nature of language; it
> changes.

Back in the day, in the English World didn't "Billion" mean One Million
times One Million ..... whereas in the U.S. of A. World "Billion" means
One Thousand times One Million??
--
Daniel

Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, rest is slooow!

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From: Pancho.J...@proton.me (Pancho)
Newsgroups: alt.windows7.general,alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, rest
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 by: Pancho - Tue, 31 Jan 2023 10:58 UTC

On 30/01/2023 18:10, Ken Blake wrote:
> On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 18:43:57 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
> <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 2023-01-29 15:27, Ken Blake wrote:
>>> On Sat, 28 Jan 2023 22:51:28 +0100, "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>
>>>> The industry has very clear that 1 GiB = 1024 MiB, and 1 GB = 1000 MB.
>>>
>>>
>>> I don't agree. It may be clear to you and to me, and to others here,
>>> but most people have never heard of GiB or MiB.
>>
>> Then learn.
>>
>> The computer industry have done it wrong for decades (looking at
>> Microsoft and others).
>
>
> Many English words, phrases, and abbreviations have been used
> incorrectly for much longer than decades. But after a while their new
> usage gets established, and nearly everyone uses it. What was once
> wrong doesn't remain wrong forever. That's the nature of language; it
> changes.
>
> So as far as I'm concerned, despite the existing standards, KB mean
> 1024, MB means 1024 x 1024, GB means 1024 x 1024 x 1024, etc. and KiB,
> MiB, Gib, etc. are almost never used and shouldn't be. A disk drive
> that's called 2GB should have 2,147,483,648 bytes, not 2,000,000,000.
>

But...

We use decimal for most other stuff, why would we want to use binary for
this special case? K means 10^3 not 2^10, M means 10^6, G means 10^9.
Why introduce complexity, unnecessary special cases?

What advantage do you think 2^10, 2^20 offers?

Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, rest is slooow!

<k3slpjFcovtU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: robin_li...@es.invalid (Carlos E. R.)
Newsgroups: alt.windows7.general,alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, rest
is slooow!
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2023 15:09:55 +0100
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 by: Carlos E. R. - Tue, 31 Jan 2023 14:09 UTC

On 2023-01-31 11:58, Pancho wrote:
> On 30/01/2023 18:10, Ken Blake wrote:
>> On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 18:43:57 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
>> <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2023-01-29 15:27, Ken Blake wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 28 Jan 2023 22:51:28 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
>>>> <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>>> The industry has very clear that 1 GiB = 1024 MiB, and 1 GB = 1000 MB.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I don't agree. It may be clear to you and to me, and to others here,
>>>> but most people have never heard of GiB or MiB.
>>>
>>> Then learn.
>>>
>>> The computer industry have done it wrong for decades (looking at
>>> Microsoft and others).
>>
>>
>> Many English words, phrases, and abbreviations have been used
>> incorrectly for much longer than decades. But after a while their new
>> usage gets established, and nearly everyone uses it. What was once
>> wrong doesn't remain wrong forever. That's the nature of language; it
>> changes.
>>
>> So as far as I'm concerned, despite the existing standards, KB mean
>> 1024, MB means 1024 x 1024, GB means 1024 x 1024 x 1024, etc. and KiB,
>> MiB, Gib, etc. are almost never used and shouldn't be.  A disk drive
>> that's called 2GB should have 2,147,483,648 bytes, not 2,000,000,000.
>>
>
> But...
>
> We use decimal for most other stuff, why would we want to use binary for
> this special case? K means 10^3 not 2^10, M means 10^6, G means 10^9.
> Why introduce complexity, unnecessary special cases?
>
> What advantage do you think 2^10, 2^20 offers?

That memory has to be built in multiples of 2. It is easier to say "1K
of RAM" than "1024 bytes", and the difference is small, thus ignored.
Problem is, we now use gigas or teras, and the difference is notable.

As computers are recent and the unit prefixes like K, M, G... are older,
it is computerese which has to adapt and use new and different prefixes,
not usurp the old prefixes introducing confusion.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, rest is slooow!

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From: inva...@invalid.invalid (Richard Kettlewell)
Newsgroups: alt.windows7.general,alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, rest is slooow!
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2023 14:40:24 +0000
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 by: Richard Kettlewell - Tue, 31 Jan 2023 14:40 UTC

Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> writes:
> On 30/01/2023 18:10, Ken Blake wrote:
>> So as far as I'm concerned, despite the existing standards, KB mean
>> 1024, MB means 1024 x 1024, GB means 1024 x 1024 x 1024, etc. and KiB,
>> MiB, Gib, etc. are almost never used and shouldn't be. A disk drive
>> that's called 2GB should have 2,147,483,648 bytes, not 2,000,000,000.
>
> But...
>
> We use decimal for most other stuff, why would we want to use binary
> for this special case? K means 10^3 not 2^10, M means 10^6, G means
> 10^9. Why introduce complexity, unnecessary special cases?

Well, it’s hardly ‘introduce’ any more, the convention is decades old.

> What advantage do you think 2^10, 2^20 offers?

Being able to talking about 16GB RAM (or 16GiB if you really must)
instead of 17.179869184GB RAM.

Persistent storage is less likely to be a power of 2 (even if the
underlying medium is 2^n bytes, there’s generally space reserved for
metadata, wear-levelling, error management, firmware, etc) but it’s
still generally divisible by at least 2^12 and often a larger power of
2. It’s usually not divisible by a nontrivial power of 10, so the
capacities in decimal units are usually not very precise.

--
https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, rest is slooow!

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From: Ken...@invalid.news.com (Ken Blake)
Newsgroups: alt.windows7.general,alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, rest is slooow!
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2023 08:05:21 -0700
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 by: Ken Blake - Tue, 31 Jan 2023 15:05 UTC

On Tue, 31 Jan 2023 11:09:18 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

>On 2023-01-30 19:10, Ken Blake wrote:
>> On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 18:43:57 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
>> <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2023-01-29 15:27, Ken Blake wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 28 Jan 2023 22:51:28 +0100, "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>>> The industry has very clear that 1 GiB = 1024 MiB, and 1 GB = 1000 MB.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I don't agree. It may be clear to you and to me, and to others here,
>>>> but most people have never heard of GiB or MiB.
>>>
>>> Then learn.
>>>
>>> The computer industry have done it wrong for decades (looking at
>>> Microsoft and others).
>>
>>
>> Many English words, phrases, and abbreviations have been used
>> incorrectly for much longer than decades. But after a while their new
>> usage gets established, and nearly everyone uses it. What was once
>> wrong doesn't remain wrong forever. That's the nature of language; it
>> changes.
>>
>> So as far as I'm concerned, despite the existing standards, KB mean
>> 1024, MB means 1024 x 1024, GB means 1024 x 1024 x 1024, etc. and KiB,
>> MiB, Gib, etc. are almost never used and shouldn't be. A disk drive
>> that's called 2GB should have 2,147,483,648 bytes, not 2,000,000,000.
>
>Well, that has decreed wrong.

Yes, I know. But as I said, that's a decree I disagree with.

Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, rest is slooow!

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From: Ken...@invalid.news.com (Ken Blake)
Newsgroups: alt.windows7.general,alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, rest is slooow!
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 by: Ken Blake - Tue, 31 Jan 2023 15:32 UTC

On Tue, 31 Jan 2023 10:58:15 +0000, Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me>
wrote:

>On 30/01/2023 18:10, Ken Blake wrote:
>> On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 18:43:57 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
>> <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2023-01-29 15:27, Ken Blake wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 28 Jan 2023 22:51:28 +0100, "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>>> The industry has very clear that 1 GiB = 1024 MiB, and 1 GB = 1000 MB.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I don't agree. It may be clear to you and to me, and to others here,
>>>> but most people have never heard of GiB or MiB.
>>>
>>> Then learn.
>>>
>>> The computer industry have done it wrong for decades (looking at
>>> Microsoft and others).
>>
>>
>> Many English words, phrases, and abbreviations have been used
>> incorrectly for much longer than decades. But after a while their new
>> usage gets established, and nearly everyone uses it. What was once
>> wrong doesn't remain wrong forever. That's the nature of language; it
>> changes.
>>
>> So as far as I'm concerned, despite the existing standards, KB mean
>> 1024, MB means 1024 x 1024, GB means 1024 x 1024 x 1024, etc. and KiB,
>> MiB, Gib, etc. are almost never used and shouldn't be. A disk drive
>> that's called 2GB should have 2,147,483,648 bytes, not 2,000,000,000.
>>
>
>But...
>
>We use decimal for most other stuff,

Most? Yes, but not for computers.

>why would we want to use binary for
>this special case?

Want to? It's not a matter of wanting to. We should accept it because
that's the way it's done with computers, except by drive
manufacturers.

>K means 10^3 not 2^10, M means 10^6, G means 10^9.

Except for computers, yes.

>Why introduce complexity, unnecessary special cases?

I don't want to introduce complexity, or have unnecessary special
cases. My point was that it's *already* been introduced and
established *in the computer world*. Going against what is established
is exactly what introduces unnecessary special cases, and confuses
people.

The number of people who buy a 1TB hard drive and are confused
because Windows tells them it's only around 900GB is enormous; look in
the Windows newsgroups and online forums and see how many people ask
"what happened to the other 100GB?"

Technically, you are right, of course. Using the established standard,
it's 1,000,000,000,000 bytes--1TB--and that's what drive manufacturers
call it. But according to Windows and most of the rest of the computer
word, 1TB is 1,099,511,637,776 bytes, so their "1TB" is only around
900 GB.

My point, once again, is that when drive manufacturers use the
established standard for disk drives when almost the rest of the
computer world does it differently, it confuses people and is a bad
thing to do. In my view, this is a case where consistency is more
important than standards.

>What advantage do you think 2^10, 2^20 offers?

That question is irrelevant to my point. I'm talking only about the
computer world.

Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, rest is slooow!

<k3sruhFcovrU1@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=912&group=uk.comp.os.linux#912

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From: robin_li...@es.invalid (Carlos E. R.)
Newsgroups: alt.windows7.general,alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, rest
is slooow!
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2023 16:54:57 +0100
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 by: Carlos E. R. - Tue, 31 Jan 2023 15:54 UTC

On 2023-01-31 16:32, Ken Blake wrote:
> On Tue, 31 Jan 2023 10:58:15 +0000, Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me>
> wrote:

> My point, once again, is that when drive manufacturers use the
> established standard for disk drives when almost the rest of the
> computer world does it differently, it confuses people and is a bad
> thing to do. In my view, this is a case where consistency is more
> important than standards.

Mine is that those computer people are doing it wrong, and the rest of
the world is right.

Computer people have to adapt and say 1 GiB instead og 1 GB. Hard disk
people are doing it right since decades.

Microsoft, typically, hates standards and goes against.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, rest is slooow!

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From: Ken...@invalid.news.com (Ken Blake)
Newsgroups: alt.windows7.general,alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, rest is slooow!
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2023 11:21:12 -0700
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 by: Ken Blake - Tue, 31 Jan 2023 18:21 UTC

On Tue, 31 Jan 2023 16:54:57 +0100, "Carlos E. R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

>On 2023-01-31 16:32, Ken Blake wrote:
>> On Tue, 31 Jan 2023 10:58:15 +0000, Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me>
>> wrote:
>
>
>> My point, once again, is that when drive manufacturers use the
>> established standard for disk drives when almost the rest of the
>> computer world does it differently, it confuses people and is a bad
>> thing to do. In my view, this is a case where consistency is more
>> important than standards.
>
>Mine is that those computer people are doing it wrong, and the rest of
>the world is right.

Going by the standards, you are of course correct.

But it doesn't matter. What matters is what considered correct by most
people.

>Computer people have to adapt and say 1 GiB instead og 1 GB.

"Have to"? Not a chance. It will never happen. There's only one way to
get consistency and that's for the drive manufacturers to use the
common understanding of KB, MB, GB etc. that the rest of the computer
world uses.

You will have course say that the drive manufacturers shouldn't change
and the rest of the computer world should. That might be a good choice
if it were possible, but it's not. There are only a handful of drive
manufacturers, but *millions* of computer users. You're not going to
change those millions.

>Hard disk
>people are doing it right since decades.

Technically, yes. Practically, no.
>
>Microsoft, typically, hates standards and goes against.

We agree on that. Is Microsoft responsible for the common meanings of
MB, GB, TB, etc. being different from the standards and being used the
way they are? Probably.

But it doesn't matter who is responsible. Whether you or I like it or
not (I also don't like it, but I have no real choice other than to
accept it), that's the way it is, and we are not going to change it.

Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, rest is slooow!

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From: nos...@needed.invalid (Paul)
Newsgroups: alt.windows7.general,alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, rest
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 by: Paul - Tue, 31 Jan 2023 19:36 UTC

On 1/31/2023 5:58 AM, Pancho wrote:

>
> But...
>
> We use decimal for most other stuff, why would we want to use binary
> for this special case? K means 10^3 not 2^10, M means 10^6, G means 10^9.
> Why introduce complexity, unnecessary special cases?
>
> What advantage do you think 2^10, 2^20 offers?

Decoding logic is simpler when you use powers-of-two.

This was important... a long time ago.

In this example, someone uses a '139 to decode an address and select a device with it.

https://blog.idorobots.org/media/upnod3/ram.png

Paul

Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, rest is slooow!

<i5boajxrcd.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=915&group=uk.comp.os.linux#915

 copy link   Newsgroups: alt.windows7.general alt.os.linux uk.comp.os.linux
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!newsreader4.netcologne.de!news.netcologne.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: robin_li...@es.invalid (Carlos E.R.)
Newsgroups: alt.windows7.general,alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Claim: Cheap USB Sticks have fast memory only at beginning, rest
is slooow!
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2023 21:44:02 +0100
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 by: Carlos E.R. - Tue, 31 Jan 2023 20:44 UTC

On 2023-01-31 19:21, Ken Blake wrote:
> On Tue, 31 Jan 2023 16:54:57 +0100, "Carlos E. R."
> <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 2023-01-31 16:32, Ken Blake wrote:
>>> On Tue, 31 Jan 2023 10:58:15 +0000, Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me>
>>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> My point, once again, is that when drive manufacturers use the
>>> established standard for disk drives when almost the rest of the
>>> computer world does it differently, it confuses people and is a bad
>>> thing to do. In my view, this is a case where consistency is more
>>> important than standards.
>>
>> Mine is that those computer people are doing it wrong, and the rest of
>> the world is right.
>
> Going by the standards, you are of course correct.
>
> But it doesn't matter. What matters is what considered correct by most
> people.
>
>> Computer people have to adapt and say 1 GiB instead og 1 GB.
>
> "Have to"? Not a chance. It will never happen. There's only one way to
> get consistency and that's for the drive manufacturers to use the
> common understanding of KB, MB, GB etc. that the rest of the computer
> world uses.

Not going to happen :-)

>
> You will have course say that the drive manufacturers shouldn't change
> and the rest of the computer world should. That might be a good choice
> if it were possible, but it's not. There are only a handful of drive
> manufacturers, but *millions* of computer users. You're not going to
> change those millions.

Give it time, and teach units in schools.

>
>> Hard disk
>> people are doing it right since decades.
>
>
> Technically, yes. Practically, no.
>>
>> Microsoft, typically, hates standards and goes against.
>
> We agree on that. Is Microsoft responsible for the common meanings of
> MB, GB, TB, etc. being different from the standards and being used the
> way they are? Probably.
>
> But it doesn't matter who is responsible. Whether you or I like it or
> not (I also don't like it, but I have no real choice other than to
> accept it), that's the way it is, and we are not going to change it.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

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