I have an RCD for the upstairs ring and a separate one for the downstairs
ring. Lights, oven, boiler are on their own fused circuits.

The downstairs RCD tripped three times yesterday morning but I couldn't
find any problems, In the end I turned off the dishwasher and all was
well. Later I ran the dishwasher again and it ran all the way through its
cycle, no problems.

I know it is sensitive, when a neutral and earth touched when I was
fitting a new wall stat it tripped (even though the stat is on the boiler
circuit).

Seems like a daft question but but I'm running out of ideas is it possible
that work in a neighbour's house using electric tools could impact on my
RCD? The houses are detached.

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
Every day is a good day for chicken, unless you're a chicken.

On 14/03/2023 09:58, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>
> I have an RCD for the upstairs ring and a separate one for the
> downstairs ring. Lights, oven, boiler are on their own fused circuits.
>
> The downstairs RCD tripped three times yesterday morning but I couldn't
> find any problems, In the end I turned off the dishwasher and all was
> well. Later I ran the dishwasher again and it ran all the way through
> its cycle, no problems.
>
> I know it is sensitive, when a neutral and earth touched when I was
> fitting a new wall stat it tripped (even though the stat is on the
> boiler circuit).
>
> Seems like a daft question but but I'm running out of ideas is it
> possible that work in a neighbour's house using electric tools could
> impact on my RCD? The houses are detached.
>

Not in terms of an earth neutral short - that has to be downstream of
the RCD to trip it - but definitely in terms of them maybe causing
spikes on the line, which in combination with mains suppression filters
can cause high line to earth currents.

However my instinct here is you have a case of what I had - a direct
earth to neutral short somewhere in the house wiring. These simply don't
respond to 'switch this ring off and see' fault finding, because
neutrals don't normally get isolated.

In my case I got near to the issue by noting that one ring was extremely
prone to it, when using anything with a high switch on current. I was
able to isolate the ring completely and probing with an ohmmeter showed
reducing resistance between earth and neutral till I got to where the
short was.

In essence you would test this by turning off thee house, and
disconnecting each neutral at the CU busbar and measuring its resistance
to earth. Leave kit plugged in and switched on, and if you find a shirt
on any ring, then start pulling equipment off and testing that.

You may also find a fried rodent across neutral and earth - and live too.

OTOH it might well be a case of dampness causing tracking.

Or a failing mains filter capacitor

For a first stab try disconnecting the dishwasher and measuring earth
to neutral and earth to live on the appliance itself.

--
"I am inclined to tell the truth and dislike people who lie consistently.
This makes me unfit for the company of people of a Left persuasion, and
all women"

On 14/03/2023 09:58, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>
> I have an RCD for the upstairs ring and a separate one for the
> downstairs ring. Lights, oven, boiler are on their own fused circuits.
>
> The downstairs RCD tripped three times yesterday morning but I couldn't
> find any problems, In the end I turned off the dishwasher and all was
> well. Later I ran the dishwasher again and it ran all the way through
> its cycle, no problems.

Sounds like the dishwasher is the issue. If something has water ingress,
which dries, then these are typical symptoms.

>
> I know it is sensitive, when a neutral and earth touched when I was
> fitting a new wall stat it tripped (even though the stat is on the
> boiler circuit).
>

Well yes, its current sensing and neutral and earth are only bonded at
entry to the house, so may be at different potentials due to differences
in wiring resistance. If current flows from neutral to ground, while
nothing is flowing on the live, it will trip.

> Seems like a daft question but but I'm running out of ideas is it
> possible that work in a neighbour's house using electric tools could
> impact on my RCD? The houses are detached.
>

Generally no, it senses the current difference between live and neutral
So for it to trip current would have to flow from you live (or neutral)
into next door.

This can only happen if you have links between mains powered devices. A
common cause is linked fire alarms, where one is connected to the
upstairs lights, one to the lower, and they are then linked by a single
wire.

Dave

On 14/03/2023 10:27, David Wade wrote:
> On 14/03/2023 09:58, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>>
>> I have an RCD for the upstairs ring and a separate one for the
>> downstairs ring. Lights, oven, boiler are on their own fused circuits.
>>
>> The downstairs RCD tripped three times yesterday morning but I
>> couldn't find any problems, In the end I turned off the dishwasher and
>> all was well. Later I ran the dishwasher again and it ran all the way
>> through its cycle, no problems.
>
> Sounds like the dishwasher is the issue. If something has water ingress,
> which dries, then these are typical symptoms.
>
Needn't be water ingress..

http://vps.templar.co.uk/AGA%20trip%20fault%20find/1002.png

--
“when things get difficult you just have to lie”

― Jean Claud Jüncker

On 14/03/2023 09:58, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>
> I have an RCD for the upstairs ring and a separate one for the
> downstairs ring. Lights, oven, boiler are on their own fused circuits.
>
> The downstairs RCD tripped three times yesterday morning but I couldn't
> find any problems, In the end I turned off the dishwasher and all was
> well. Later I ran the dishwasher again and it ran all the way through
> its cycle, no problems.
>
> I know it is sensitive, when a neutral and earth touched when I was
> fitting a new wall stat it tripped (even though the stat is on the
> boiler circuit).
>
> Seems like a daft question but but I'm running out of ideas is it
> possible that work in a neighbour's house using electric tools could
> impact on my RCD? The houses are detached.
>

If you've not already read it I suggest you look at

<http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/RCD#How_to_locate_the_cause_of_nuisance_trips>

Note especially that if turning off the d/w removes the problem it
doesn't follow that the d/w is the real culprit. You might e.g. have
leakage of 25mA on something else that is on only intermittently. When
the d/w comes along and adds a modest 5mA the RCD trips. The d/w gets
all the blame even though it may be doing nothing new.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 2023-03-14, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 14/03/2023 10:27, David Wade wrote:
>> On 14/03/2023 09:58, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>>>
>>> I have an RCD for the upstairs ring and a separate one for the
>>> downstairs ring. Lights, oven, boiler are on their own fused circuits.
>>>
>>> The downstairs RCD tripped three times yesterday morning but I
>>> couldn't find any problems, In the end I turned off the dishwasher and
>>> all was well. Later I ran the dishwasher again and it ran all the way
>>> through its cycle, no problems.
>>
>> Sounds like the dishwasher is the issue. If something has water ingress,
>> which dries, then these are typical symptoms.
>>
> Needn't be water ingress..
>
> http://vps.templar.co.uk/AGA%20trip%20fault%20find/1002.png

Definitely ingress, though!

On 14/03/2023 09:58, Jeff Gaines wrote:

> The downstairs RCD tripped three times yesterday morning but I couldn't
> find any problems, In the end I turned off the dishwasher and all was
> well. Later I ran the dishwasher again and it ran all the way through its
> cycle, no problems.

Where was the dishwasher "turned off"? I had a problem with my Beko
tumble drier tripping the RCD when it cooled down. It was the mains
filter which was responsible (leaky capacitor?). But the filter is where
the mains cable enters the tumble drier and before the on/off switch.
Only by turning off at the wall socket or pulling the plug was the
tumble drier disconnected from the mains.

--

Jeff

On Tue, 14 Mar 2023 09:58:54 +0000, Jeff Gaines wrote:

> I have an RCD for the upstairs ring and a separate one for the
> downstairs ring. Lights, oven, boiler are on their own fused circuits.
>
> The downstairs RCD tripped three times yesterday morning but I couldn't
> find any problems, In the end I turned off the dishwasher and all was
> well. Later I ran the dishwasher again and it ran all the way through
> its cycle, no problems.
>
> I know it is sensitive, when a neutral and earth touched when I was
> fitting a new wall stat it tripped (even though the stat is on the
> boiler circuit).
>
> Seems like a daft question but but I'm running out of ideas is it
> possible that work in a neighbour's house using electric tools could
> impact on my RCD? The houses are detached.

Just noting that this is why when we refurbished the house I had the CU
upgraded from RCD to RCBO.

Earth neutral trips were the bane of my life when changing things like
light fittings; notably outside lights.

Cheers

Dave R

--
AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64

On 14/03/2023 in message <xn0nzc1222rsyve005@news.individual.net> Jeff
Gaines wrote:

>Seems like a daft question but but I'm running out of ideas is it possible
>that work in a neighbour's house using electric tools could impact on my
>RCD? The houses are detached.

Just to say many thanks for all the replies and the guide sheet :-)

I will start with the dishwasher as I need to try and adjust one of the
feet on the washing machine that is next to it so I can do it all in one.
After that it's Poirot hat on.....

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
I've been through the desert on a horse with no name.
It was a right bugger to get him back when he ran off.

On 14/03/2023 09:58, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>
> I have an RCD for the upstairs ring and a separate one for the
> downstairs ring. Lights, oven, boiler are on their own fused circuits.
>
> The downstairs RCD tripped three times yesterday morning but I couldn't
> find any problems, In the end I turned off the dishwasher and all was
> well. Later I ran the dishwasher again and it ran all the way through
> its cycle, no problems.
>
> I know it is sensitive, when a neutral and earth touched when I was
> fitting a new wall stat it tripped (even though the stat is on the
> boiler circuit).
>
> Seems like a daft question but but I'm running out of ideas is it
> possible that work in a neighbour's house using electric tools could
> impact on my RCD? The houses are detached.

Have a read through:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/RCD#Nuisance_trips

--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
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|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

Probably depends which mains phase they are on.
Brian

--

--:
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Jeff Gaines" <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote in message
news:xn0nzc1222rsyve005@news.individual.net...
>
> I have an RCD for the upstairs ring and a separate one for the downstairs
> ring. Lights, oven, boiler are on their own fused circuits.
>
> The downstairs RCD tripped three times yesterday morning but I couldn't
> find any problems, In the end I turned off the dishwasher and all was
> well. Later I ran the dishwasher again and it ran all the way through its
> cycle, no problems.
>
> I know it is sensitive, when a neutral and earth touched when I was
> fitting a new wall stat it tripped (even though the stat is on the boiler
> circuit).
>
> Seems like a daft question but but I'm running out of ideas is it possible
> that work in a neighbour's house using electric tools could impact on my
> RCD? The houses are detached.
>
> --
> Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
> Every day is a good day for chicken, unless you're a chicken.

Pardon me for being thick, but if the short is between Earth and neutral,
does it matter given that most switches only disconnect the live. What
condition might it be protecting from, assuming you are not silly and put an
Axe through the mains cable, which is hardly likely.That would just blows a
fuse.
Brian

--

--:
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"The Natural Philosopher" <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:tupi4s$9pnn$1@dont-email.me...
> On 14/03/2023 09:58, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>>
>> I have an RCD for the upstairs ring and a separate one for the downstairs
>> ring. Lights, oven, boiler are on their own fused circuits.
>>
>> The downstairs RCD tripped three times yesterday morning but I couldn't
>> find any problems, In the end I turned off the dishwasher and all was
>> well. Later I ran the dishwasher again and it ran all the way through its
>> cycle, no problems.
>>
>> I know it is sensitive, when a neutral and earth touched when I was
>> fitting a new wall stat it tripped (even though the stat is on the boiler
>> circuit).
>>
>> Seems like a daft question but but I'm running out of ideas is it
>> possible that work in a neighbour's house using electric tools could
>> impact on my RCD? The houses are detached.
>>
>
> Not in terms of an earth neutral short - that has to be downstream of the
> RCD to trip it - but definitely in terms of them maybe causing spikes on
> the line, which in combination with mains suppression filters can cause
> high line to earth currents.
>
> However my instinct here is you have a case of what I had - a direct earth
> to neutral short somewhere in the house wiring. These simply don't respond
> to 'switch this ring off and see' fault finding, because neutrals don't
> normally get isolated.
>
> In my case I got near to the issue by noting that one ring was extremely
> prone to it, when using anything with a high switch on current. I was able
> to isolate the ring completely and probing with an ohmmeter showed
> reducing resistance between earth and neutral till I got to where the
> short was.
>
> In essence you would test this by turning off thee house, and
> disconnecting each neutral at the CU busbar and measuring its resistance
> to earth. Leave kit plugged in and switched on, and if you find a shirt on
> any ring, then start pulling equipment off and testing that.
>
> You may also find a fried rodent across neutral and earth - and live too.
>
> OTOH it might well be a case of dampness causing tracking.
>
> Or a failing mains filter capacitor
>
> For a first stab try disconnecting the dishwasher and measuring earth to
> neutral and earth to live on the appliance itself.
>
>
>
> --
> "I am inclined to tell the truth and dislike people who lie consistently.
> This makes me unfit for the company of people of a Left persuasion, and
> all women"
>

On 14/03/2023 09:58, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>
> I have an RCD for the upstairs ring and a separate one for the
> downstairs ring. Lights, oven, boiler are on their own fused circuits.

A photo of your CU might help.

Adam

On 15/03/2023 17:18, Brian Gaff wrote:
> Pardon me for being thick, but if the short is between Earth and neutral,
> does it matter given that most switches only disconnect the live. What
> condition might it be protecting from, assuming you are not silly and put an
> Axe through the mains cable, which is hardly likely.That would just blows a
> fuse.

Earth neutral shorts are prone to causing nuisance trips in an
unpredictable way, since they require the neutral potential to be far
enough away from the earth potential to pass 30mA to it. That only
happens when there is adequate load on other circuits (TN-C-S) or other
circuits and other properties (TN-S) to lift the neutral potential a bit.

--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/