https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-flooding-fears-after-major-dam-hit-
by-shelling-in-russia-controlled-kherson-region-12897228

A state of emergency has been declared after a dam in a Russian-controlled
part of southern Ukraine has been irrevocably damaged by an explosion,
leading to flooding in the area already hit by months of conflict.

Russian state-owned news agency TASS reported that the decree was made by
local Moscow-backed authorities around the Nova Kakhovka dam.

The water level in the Kherson region is already up by five metres, with
several downstream islands entirely flooded, according to Russian state-
owned news agency RIA.

Local authorities fear that the water level could rise by up to 12 metres,
according to Nova Kakhovka's Russian-installed mayor, who said that the
town of Nova Kakhovka was now underwater and that around 600 houses had
been flooded.

"The water continues to mount. An evacuation is being carried out of
civilians from the adjacent flooded zones to preserve all lives ... There
is no panic in the town," Vladimir Leontyev said in a video message on
Telegram.

ASS said that half the span of the 3.2km-long dam had been destroyed, and
that the collapse of the remainder was ongoing.

Ukraine's state hydroelectric agency said that the plant had been "totally
destroyed" after a blast in its engine room and could not be restored.

RIA also reported, citing the Kherson region's head, that 22,000 people in
14 settlements had been affected so far.

more

On Tue, 06 Jun 2023 09:49:04 GMT
TWP <ngspammersad@yahoo.com> wrote:

> https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-flooding-fears-after-major-dam-hit-
> by-shelling-in-russia-controlled-kherson-region-12897228
>
> A state of emergency has been declared after a dam in a
> Russian-controlled part of southern Ukraine has been irrevocably
> damaged by an explosion, leading to flooding in the area already hit
> by months of conflict.

It's a spectacular start to Kiev's counter-offensive. I had wondered how they were going to play it after the Pentagon leaks showed the US expected it to fail.

With one simple act Ukraine has likely cut off the entire water supply to Crimea and is more likely to drive Zaporizhzhia into melt-down than months of shelling has.

They may well have pulled the rug from under Putin's feet on Day One.

On Tue, 06 Jun 2023 11:50:19 +0100, The Happy Hippy wrote:

> On Tue, 06 Jun 2023 09:49:04 GMT TWP <ngspammersad@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-flooding-fears-after-major-dam-
hit-
>> by-shelling-in-russia-controlled-kherson-region-12897228
>>
>> A state of emergency has been declared after a dam in a
>> Russian-controlled part of southern Ukraine has been irrevocably
>> damaged by an explosion, leading to flooding in the area already hit by
>> months of conflict.
>
> It's a spectacular start to Kiev's counter-offensive. I had wondered how
> they were going to play it after the Pentagon leaks showed the US
> expected it to fail.
>
> With one simple act Ukraine has likely cut off the entire water supply
> to Crimea and is more likely to drive Zaporizhzhia into melt-down than
> months of shelling has.
>
> They may well have pulled the rug from under Putin's feet on Day One.

I don't think we know for certain at this point who did it. It might be
another Nordstream.

A comment I've heard
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n81hR03pQfI
says that the dam supplies drinking water to Crimea and cooling water for
a nuclear plant.

On Tue, 06 Jun 2023 12:15:02 GMT
TWP <ngspammersad@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Tue, 06 Jun 2023 11:50:19 +0100, The Happy Hippy wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 06 Jun 2023 09:49:04 GMT TWP <ngspammersad@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >> https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-flooding-fears-after-major-dam-
> >>
> hit-
> >> by-shelling-in-russia-controlled-kherson-region-12897228
> >>
> >> A state of emergency has been declared after a dam in a
> >> Russian-controlled part of southern Ukraine has been irrevocably
> >> damaged by an explosion, leading to flooding in the area already
> >> hit by months of conflict.
> >
> > It's a spectacular start to Kiev's counter-offensive. I had
> > wondered how they were going to play it after the Pentagon leaks
> > showed the US expected it to fail.
> >
> > With one simple act Ukraine has likely cut off the entire water
> > supply to Crimea and is more likely to drive Zaporizhzhia into
> > melt-down than months of shelling has.
> >
> > They may well have pulled the rug from under Putin's feet on Day
> > One.
>
>
> I don't think we know for certain at this point who did it. It might
> be another Nordstream.

You mean America and/or her allies did it ?

That we claim we don't know, and will never know, who blew up the pipeline is just a convenient pretence intended to protect the guilty.

> A comment I've heard
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n81hR03pQfI
> says that the dam supplies drinking water to Crimea and cooling water
> for a nuclear plant.

Yes, that's what I said ;-)

And let's not forget that Ukraine has form in blowing up dams, being willing to sacrifice their own citizens to secure international support.

They blew up the Irpin dam early in the conflict, have been shelling Kherson and its dam and other dams along the Dnipri, for months now, and of course the Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant.

We are meant to believe it's Russians deliberately destroying their own most valuable assets in this conflict. NATO and her allies pretend to believe that but it's laughable.

Ukraine has been extremely successful in presenting their false flag operations as somehow being Russian false flag operations, but only because we support Ukraine in such nonsense. We are quick to produce evidence when Russia lies but simply pretend there is none when Ukraine does, choose to let the lies persist.

Cleverly might have let more than he wanted slip when he chose to say this wouldn't have happened if Russia hadn't invaded. Some have interpreted this as admitting it is known to be a Ukrainian attack but we have to excuse it, have to blame Russia for it.

TWP wrote:
> On Tue, 06 Jun 2023 11:50:19 +0100, The Happy Hippy wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 06 Jun 2023 09:49:04 GMT TWP <ngspammersad@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-flooding-fears-after-major-dam-
> hit-
>>> by-shelling-in-russia-controlled-kherson-region-12897228
>>>
>>> A state of emergency has been declared after a dam in a
>>> Russian-controlled part of southern Ukraine has been irrevocably
>>> damaged by an explosion, leading to flooding in the area already hit by
>>> months of conflict.
>>
>> It's a spectacular start to Kiev's counter-offensive. I had wondered how
>> they were going to play it after the Pentagon leaks showed the US
>> expected it to fail.
>>
>> With one simple act Ukraine has likely cut off the entire water supply
>> to Crimea and is more likely to drive Zaporizhzhia into melt-down than
>> months of shelling has.
>>
>> They may well have pulled the rug from under Putin's feet on Day One.
>
>
> I don't think we know for certain at this point who did it. It might be
> another Nordstream.
>
> A comment I've heard
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n81hR03pQfI
> says that the dam supplies drinking water to Crimea and cooling water for
> a nuclear plant.

Only a beholden, lovestruck shill and self professed "proud communist"
like Xippy would pathetically and predictably try to make the case that
Ukraine is wrecking their own nation and people [and also creating huge
obstacles and hardships for themselves] just to spite Putrid.

It appears nearly certain that the invaders anticipated losing control
of the area soon, and weren't about to let it fall intact.

[lots of pics here]

'Nothing will survive here': Entire Ukrainian villages vanish underwater
as Russia blows up Kakhovka dam 'from the inside' - forcing thousands to
abandon their homes

Kakhovka dam near Kherson in southern Ukraine has suffered severe
damage following several explosions
Tens of thousands of Ukrainians have been told to abandon their
homes amid 'catastrophic' levels of flooding
The dam provides critical cooling to the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power
plant as well as drinking water to Crimea

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12163585/Ukraine-accuses-Russia-destroying-major-dam-near-Kherson-warns-widespread-flooding.html

--
Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for
light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.

On Tue, 06 Jun 2023 12:15:02 GMT
TWP <ngspammersad@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I don't think we know for certain at this point who did it.

I have always found it useful to analyse what Zelensky has to say, how he tries to spin his false flag operations as Russian attacks or Russian false flags.

What he says before Ukraine admits they were involved or were responsible for things they had previously denied being involved in or responsible for.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-65816109

<quotes>

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky says it would have been "physically impossible" for the Kakhovka dam to have been blown up from outside its immediate area. It's not yet been established what caused the dam to be destroyed.

He says in a tweet that Russia has controlled the dam and its surrounding region for more than a year, and adds that the dam "was mined by Russian occupiers," and "they blew it up"

</quotes>

That's straight out of the Islamist playbook when they claimed Assad's troops were blowing themselves up in their own barracks in the dead of night.

"Physically impossible" is straight-up nonsense and spin, same as claiming they simply aren't able to attack deep into Russian territory when they have.

They've been shelling that dam and others for months. I always considered the claim that Russians had mined it ready for their false flag of pretending Russia had blown it up should they score a lucky hit. And if Russia had mined it Ukraine would have known a lucky hit would spell catastrophe.

That seems to be what has come about. By luck or by design seems the question.

Maybe it was a lucky hit, a Ukrainian shell hit a mine, took out the dam.

But I'm more inclined to suspect it was deliberately targeted and destroyed by Ukraine using a British Storm Shadow missile. They've been firing them off like fire crackers since we handed them over a few days ago.

I am sure we didn't hand those over without telemetry installed so we would know the truth and could prepare what we had to say about any use they were put to.

It may be that which has had Cleverly respond how he did. Or that we had assisted in the targeting.

America and the UK are much more cautious about going along with lies which they know are lies and may later be revealed as such, so while many are supporting Zelensky's assertion that Russians destroyed the dam, it is always worth paying very close attention to what the US and UK says.

So far Cleverly has blamed Russia but appears to have avoided saying Russia blew it up.

If we get no better than "probably was Russia" it might mean we can be pretty certain that it wasn't and they know that.

On Tue, 06 Jun 2023 12:15:02 GMT
TWP <ngspammersad@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I don't think we know for certain at this point who did it.

There seems to have been plenty of reports that the dam had fallen into a dangerous state of disrepair so perhaps it simply failed of its own accord or was helped along by Ukrainian shelling.

That would also fit with Cleverly blaming Russia but not claiming they destroyed it.

We can be pretty sure there are spy satellites covering every part of Russian occupied Ukraine, and probably the whole of Ukraine, and we would surely know whether an explosion occurred before the collapse or not.

It always seemed clear, even though not commenting in public, that many of those backing Zelensky weren't at all happy about his reckless shelling of Zaporizhzhia which risked nuclear catastrophe.

If similar recklessness has led to the catastrophe we see unfolding now I can't see they'll be happy about that either.

"We can blame Russia" only has so much road it can travel.

Many, including within NATO, are pretty fed up with Zelensky's never ending demands, trying to drag the West into Word War III.

America was recently forced to publicly speak out against Ukrainian attacks on Russian soil, have modified their missiles so they can't fire those into Russia, weren't at all happy about the UK handing over missiles America didn't consider safe to be put into Ukrainian hands.

It wouldn't surprise me if Zelensky hasn't already received at least one "What the fuck are you playing at?" calls.

On Tue, 6 Jun 2023 10:01:11 -0400
JeSSe <zo@so.org> wrote:

> The dam provides critical cooling to the Zaporizhzhia nuclear
> power plant as well as drinking water to Crimea

Exactly. So perhaps you would explain why Putin would do something so incredibly damaging to himself and his chances of success without falling back on "mad mullah" demonisation.

On Tue, 6 Jun 2023 10:01:11 -0400
JeSSe <zo@so.org> wrote:

> It appears nearly certain that the invaders anticipated losing
> control of the area soon, and weren't about to let it fall intact.

Entirely made up propagandist dribble.

Once again; simply saying it's so doesn't make it so.

The Happy Hippy wrote:
> On Tue, 6 Jun 2023 10:01:11 -0400
> JeSSe <zo@so.org> wrote:
>
>> The dam provides critical cooling to the Zaporizhzhia nuclear
>> power plant as well as drinking water to Crimea
>
> Exactly. So perhaps you would explain why Putin would do something so incredibly damaging to himself and his chances of success without falling back on "mad mullah" demonisation.
>

* You really think he gives a flying fuck about people drinking water in
Crimea ? Lest you forget, Crimea is Russian occupied, and he would turn
on them just as quick as he turned on the rest of his "Ukrainian bothers".
In any case, Ukraine has reportedly turned that tap off long ago and
there are no reports of mass dehydration deaths. So long as actual
occupying Russians have enough to drink, he will not care about
Ukrainians having the means to subsist.

* Do you think he really gives a fuck about a nuclear power plant on
Ukrainian territory staying cool ?

Assuming a resounding "Hell No!" for both, then his reasons are
tactical. Releasing floodwaters to impede an enemy in warfare is not
exactly a new or novel tactic.
Threatening the world with nuclear war every other hour at times and
reportedly facing his own mortality in an intimate way, I hardly think
he is troubled about being demomized.

You really are very naive, especially when digging deep for poor excuses.

--
Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for
light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.

The Happy Hippy wrote:
> On Tue, 6 Jun 2023 10:01:11 -0400
> JeSSe <zo@so.org> wrote:
>
>> It appears nearly certain that the invaders anticipated losing
>> control of the area soon, and weren't about to let it fall intact.
>
> Entirely made up propagandist dribble.
>
> Once again; simply saying it's so doesn't make it so.
>
Dribble ? You mean drivel ?
FAIK, dribble is what ones does to a basketball.

Your track record on Ukraine is a litany of complete failure, from
claiming that signs Russia was getting ready to invade was made up NATO
bullshit to predicting that Kherson would never fall - Am not seeing why
it should be different in this case, you are great at predicting the
near opposite of what ends up actually happening.

--
Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for
light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.

On Tue, 6 Jun 2023 13:53:00 -0400
JeSSe <zo@so.org> wrote:

> The Happy Hippy wrote:
> > On Tue, 6 Jun 2023 10:01:11 -0400
> > JeSSe <zo@so.org> wrote:
> >
> >> The dam provides critical cooling to the Zaporizhzhia nuclear
> >> power plant as well as drinking water to Crimea
> >
> > Exactly. So perhaps you would explain why Putin would do something
> > so incredibly damaging to himself and his chances of success
> > without falling back on "mad mullah" demonisation.
>
> * You really think he gives a flying fuck about people drinking water
> in Crimea ?

As I said; without falling back on "mad mullah" demonisation.

But let's pretend he would do it, regardless of the problems it causes him, regardless of the backlash it would bring ...

Why do it now ?

Why not wait for Ukrainians to push into territory occupied by Russians, why not pull back, let them come, then drown those he could and strand those he couldn't on the Russia side of the Dnipro to be picked off more easily ?

Why do it now when he would have gained far greater rewards in doing it later ?

Ah yes; "mad mullah".

On Tue, 6 Jun 2023 14:00:57 -0400
JeSSe <zo@so.org> wrote:

> The Happy Hippy wrote:
> > On Tue, 6 Jun 2023 10:01:11 -0400
> > JeSSe <zo@so.org> wrote:
> >
> >> It appears nearly certain that the invaders anticipated losing
> >> control of the area soon, and weren't about to let it fall intact.
> >>
> >
> > Entirely made up propagandist dribble.
> >
> > Once again; simply saying it's so doesn't make it so.
> >
> Dribble ? You mean drivel ?

No I mean "dribble".

But you can call it drivel if you want to. There's enough hot air in here without me.

On Tue, 6 Jun 2023 15:47:54 +0100
The Happy Hippy <the.happy.hippy.nntp@ntlworld.invalid> wrote:

> On Tue, 06 Jun 2023 12:15:02 GMT
> TWP <ngspammersad@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > I don't think we know for certain at this point who did it.
>
> There seems to have been plenty of reports that the dam had fallen
> into a dangerous state of disrepair so perhaps it simply failed of
> its own accord or was helped along by Ukrainian shelling.

There are also reports that the reservoir it was holding back had been rising in recent days and weeks, flooding upstream land. The New York Times reported the water levels were at a 30 year high.

So it could simply be the dam overflowed and collapsed under the weight of water it was holding back, became a typical cascade failure we have witnessed with other dams.

It seems the Russian Mayor described exactly that.

And, with Kiev saying it can only be Russia having blown it up, that the world must believe that, can't and mustn't believe anything else, that any other explanation is "Russian propaganda", that it must be treated as if Russia has used a Weapon of Mass Destruction against Ukraine, must be responded to in kind as such, I am inclined to believe him, accept that Ukraine are again trying to drag us into World War III, are cynically using this catastrophe and their lies to further their own political goals.

That the reservoir held more water than expected is also being used to explain why the flood modelling done last year wasn't as extreme as the flooding is now said to be.

Though I am still trying to figure out how a 16-foot wall of water would take 19 hours to reach Kherson. I am surprised, if such a thing is on its way, moving at merely a mile an hour, it hasn't already been filmed.

I hope someone sets up a webcam so we can see how 'disaster movie' it actually is.

I suspect it's being hyped, and rather more than a little. Which is just as well in the wake of our cheering for the Dam Buster raid which set out to do exactly what we are seeing here.

On Tue, 06 Jun 2023 14:42:51 +0100, The Happy Hippy wrote:

> On Tue, 06 Jun 2023 12:15:02 GMT TWP <ngspammersad@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 06 Jun 2023 11:50:19 +0100, The Happy Hippy wrote:
>>
>> > On Tue, 06 Jun 2023 09:49:04 GMT TWP <ngspammersad@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-flooding-fears-after-major-
dam-
>> >>
>> hit-
>> >> by-shelling-in-russia-controlled-kherson-region-12897228
>> >>
>> >> A state of emergency has been declared after a dam in a
>> >> Russian-controlled part of southern Ukraine has been irrevocably
>> >> damaged by an explosion, leading to flooding in the area already hit
>> >> by months of conflict.
>> >
>> > It's a spectacular start to Kiev's counter-offensive. I had wondered
>> > how they were going to play it after the Pentagon leaks showed the US
>> > expected it to fail.
>> >
>> > With one simple act Ukraine has likely cut off the entire water
>> > supply to Crimea and is more likely to drive Zaporizhzhia into
>> > melt-down than months of shelling has.
>> >
>> > They may well have pulled the rug from under Putin's feet on Day One.
>>
>>
>> I don't think we know for certain at this point who did it. It might
>> be another Nordstream.
>
> You mean America and/or her allies did it ?
>
> That we claim we don't know, and will never know, who blew up the
> pipeline is just a convenient pretence intended to protect the guilty.
>
>
>> A comment I've heard https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n81hR03pQfI says
>> that the dam supplies drinking water to Crimea and cooling water for a
>> nuclear plant.
>
> Yes, that's what I said ;-)
>
> And let's not forget that Ukraine has form in blowing up dams, being
> willing to sacrifice their own citizens to secure international support.
>
> They blew up the Irpin dam early in the conflict, have been shelling
> Kherson and its dam and other dams along the Dnipri, for months now, and
> of course the Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant.
>
> We are meant to believe it's Russians deliberately destroying their own
> most valuable assets in this conflict. NATO and her allies pretend to
> believe that but it's laughable.
>
> Ukraine has been extremely successful in presenting their false flag
> operations as somehow being Russian false flag operations, but only
> because we support Ukraine in such nonsense.

Not really - it just seems more credible that, if the choice is between
Ukraine as a state and Russia as a state having blown up the dam then it
seems more likely that Russia would do it. Russia seems to be limited in
its military resources and blowing the dam means Ukraine can't take over
the area any time soon and Russia can withdraw without looking weak.

Ukraine is supposedly intending to advance - why would it make that more
difficult? There's no purpose to destroying the dam for Ukraine other
than being able to blame Russia - which can be denined by Russia and to
cut off drinking water to Crimea, if it actually has that result. It also
threatens the Zaprozhizhia nuclear plant if the reservoir water height
drops below 12.7m.

On Tue, 06 Jun 2023 10:01:11 -0400, JeSSe wrote:

> TWP wrote:
>> On Tue, 06 Jun 2023 11:50:19 +0100, The Happy Hippy wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 06 Jun 2023 09:49:04 GMT TWP <ngspammersad@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-flooding-fears-after-major-dam-
>> hit-
>>>> by-shelling-in-russia-controlled-kherson-region-12897228
>>>>
>>>> A state of emergency has been declared after a dam in a
>>>> Russian-controlled part of southern Ukraine has been irrevocably
>>>> damaged by an explosion, leading to flooding in the area already hit
>>>> by months of conflict.
>>>
>>> It's a spectacular start to Kiev's counter-offensive. I had wondered
>>> how they were going to play it after the Pentagon leaks showed the US
>>> expected it to fail.
>>>
>>> With one simple act Ukraine has likely cut off the entire water supply
>>> to Crimea and is more likely to drive Zaporizhzhia into melt-down than
>>> months of shelling has.
>>>
>>> They may well have pulled the rug from under Putin's feet on Day One.
>>
>>
>> I don't think we know for certain at this point who did it. It might
>> be another Nordstream.
>>
>> A comment I've heard https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n81hR03pQfI says
>> that the dam supplies drinking water to Crimea and cooling water for a
>> nuclear plant.
>
> Only a beholden, lovestruck shill and self professed "proud communist"
> like Xippy would pathetically and predictably try to make the case that
> Ukraine is wrecking their own nation and people [and also creating huge
> obstacles and hardships for themselves] just to spite Putrid.
>
> It appears nearly certain that the invaders anticipated losing control
> of the area soon, and weren't about to let it fall intact.
>
> [lots of pics here]
>
> 'Nothing will survive here': Entire Ukrainian villages vanish underwater
> as Russia blows up Kakhovka dam 'from the inside' - forcing thousands to
> abandon their homes
>
> Kakhovka dam near Kherson in southern Ukraine has suffered severe
> damage following several explosions
> Tens of thousands of Ukrainians have been told to abandon their
> homes amid 'catastrophic' levels of flooding
> The dam provides critical cooling to the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power
> plant as well as drinking water to Crimea
>
> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12163585/Ukraine-accuses-Russia-
destroying-major-dam-near-Kherson-warns-widespread-flooding.html

I think it probably was Russia. They must be anticipating a real
thrashing if they have to tip over the chess board like this before the
game even starts.

On Tue, 06 Jun 2023 19:55:17 GMT
TWP <ngspammersad@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Tue, 06 Jun 2023 14:42:51 +0100, The Happy Hippy wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 06 Jun 2023 12:15:02 GMT TWP <ngspammersad@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, 06 Jun 2023 11:50:19 +0100, The Happy Hippy wrote:
> >>
> >> > On Tue, 06 Jun 2023 09:49:04 GMT TWP <ngspammersad@yahoo.com>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >> https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-flooding-fears-after-major-
> >> >>
> dam-
> >> >>
> >> hit-
> >> >> by-shelling-in-russia-controlled-kherson-region-12897228
> >> >>
> >> >> A state of emergency has been declared after a dam in a
> >> >> Russian-controlled part of southern Ukraine has been irrevocably
> >> >> damaged by an explosion, leading to flooding in the area
> >> >> already hit by months of conflict.
> >> >
> >> > It's a spectacular start to Kiev's counter-offensive. I had
> >> > wondered how they were going to play it after the Pentagon leaks
> >> > showed the US expected it to fail.
> >> >
> >> > With one simple act Ukraine has likely cut off the entire water
> >> > supply to Crimea and is more likely to drive Zaporizhzhia into
> >> > melt-down than months of shelling has.
> >> >
> >> > They may well have pulled the rug from under Putin's feet on Day
> >> > One.
> >>
> >>
> >> I don't think we know for certain at this point who did it. It
> >> might be another Nordstream.
> >
> > You mean America and/or her allies did it ?
> >
> > That we claim we don't know, and will never know, who blew up the
> > pipeline is just a convenient pretence intended to protect the
> > guilty.
> >
> >
> >> A comment I've heard https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n81hR03pQfI
> >> says that the dam supplies drinking water to Crimea and cooling
> >> water for a nuclear plant.
> >
> > Yes, that's what I said ;-)
> >
> > And let's not forget that Ukraine has form in blowing up dams, being
> > willing to sacrifice their own citizens to secure international
> > support.
> >
> > They blew up the Irpin dam early in the conflict, have been shelling
> > Kherson and its dam and other dams along the Dnipri, for months
> > now, and of course the Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant.
> >
> > We are meant to believe it's Russians deliberately destroying their
> > own most valuable assets in this conflict. NATO and her allies
> > pretend to believe that but it's laughable.
> >
> > Ukraine has been extremely successful in presenting their false flag
> > operations as somehow being Russian false flag operations, but only
> > because we support Ukraine in such nonsense.
>
>
> Not really - it just seems more credible that, if the choice is
> between Ukraine as a state and Russia as a state having blown up the
> dam then it seems more likely that Russia would do it. Russia seems
> to be limited in its military resources and blowing the dam means
> Ukraine can't take over the area any time soon and Russia can
> withdraw without looking weak.
>
> Ukraine is supposedly intending to advance - why would it make that
> more difficult? There's no purpose to destroying the dam for Ukraine
> other than being able to blame Russia - which can be denined by
> Russia and to cut off drinking water to Crimea, if it actually has
> that result. It also threatens the Zaprozhizhia nuclear plant if the
> reservoir water height drops below 12.7m.

One can find reasons Ukraine would and wouldn't do it, just as one can find reasons Russia would and wouldn't do it.

I believe you have to look at why they wouldn't rather than why they might.

The most compelling reason Ukraine wouldn't is because it stops their advance into Russian held territory. On the other hand that's not a problem if they hadn't planned to advance in that area anyway.

The most compelling reasons Russia wouldn't is it cuts the water supply to Crimea, it invites western outrage, it deprives them of doing something which would be better held in reserve. I'm struggling to find any reason any of that would be advantageous to them. We're going to preemptively shoot ourselves in the foot when we don't have to seems unlikely to me.

Given BBC, Sky and others are now showing recent footage of water pouring through the section of dam which has now collapsed and disappeared, I'm starting to believe no one actually did anything.

On Tue, 06 Jun 2023 19:57:22 GMT
TWP <ngspammersad@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I think it probably was Russia. They must be anticipating a real
> thrashing if they have to tip over the chess board like this before
> the game even starts.

And why would they be anticipating that ? And why would they do it and hand the west justification for giving them a thrashing ?

If I believed Putin knew he was about to get thrashed and it was end game time I'd be wondering when he's going to press that Red Button.

The Happy Hippy wrote:
> On Tue, 6 Jun 2023 14:00:57 -0400
> JeSSe <zo@so.org> wrote:
>
>> The Happy Hippy wrote:
>>> On Tue, 6 Jun 2023 10:01:11 -0400
>>> JeSSe <zo@so.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> It appears nearly certain that the invaders anticipated losing
>>>> control of the area soon, and weren't about to let it fall intact.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Entirely made up propagandist dribble.
>>>
>>> Once again; simply saying it's so doesn't make it so.
>>>
>> Dribble ? You mean drivel ?
>
> No I mean "dribble".
>
> But you can call it drivel if you want to. There's enough hot air in here without me.
>
>
>
drib·ble
/ˈdrib(ə)l/

(chiefly in soccer, field hockey, and basketball) take (the ball)
forward past opponents with slight touches of the feet or the stick, or
(in basketball) by continuous bouncing.
"he attempted to dribble the ball from the goal area"

So I am a propagandist bouncing a basketball ??

driv·el
/ˈdriv(ə)l/

talk nonsense. to talk stupidly and carelessly.
"he was driveling on about the glory days"

synonyms: talk nonsense, babble, ramble, gibber, burble, blather,
blether, prate, prattle, gabble, chatter, twitter, maunder, talk
rubbish, gab, talk through one's hat, witter on, waffle, bullshit

What you meant, but with your fetish against admitting error, cannot admit

I'm right, you are wrong, as usual.

--
Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for
light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.

The Happy Hippy wrote:
> On Tue, 6 Jun 2023 13:53:00 -0400
> JeSSe <zo@so.org> wrote:
>
>> The Happy Hippy wrote:
>>> On Tue, 6 Jun 2023 10:01:11 -0400
>>> JeSSe <zo@so.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The dam provides critical cooling to the Zaporizhzhia nuclear
>>>> power plant as well as drinking water to Crimea
>>>
>>> Exactly. So perhaps you would explain why Putin would do something
>>> so incredibly damaging to himself and his chances of success
>>> without falling back on "mad mullah" demonisation.
>>
>> * You really think he gives a flying fuck about people drinking water
>> in Crimea ?
>
> As I said;

You have proven yourself over and over utterly worthless to attempt to
have an adult debate with, so forget about Putrid/Ukraine.

You stated just yesterday that you aren't too ashamed to answer simple
questions, so how about this:

Why don't you have any children ?

--
Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for
light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.

The Happy Hippy wrote:
>
> I'm struggling to find any reason any of that would be advantageous to them.

Oh yes, always a big, gut wrenching struggle for you to blame anything
on Putin [Or Xi, or Xiden]

--
Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for
light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.

On Tue, 6 Jun 2023 19:26:50 -0400
JeSSe <zo@so.org> wrote:

> The Happy Hippy wrote:
> > On Tue, 6 Jun 2023 13:53:00 -0400
> > JeSSe <zo@so.org> wrote:
> >
> >> The Happy Hippy wrote:
> >>> On Tue, 6 Jun 2023 10:01:11 -0400
> >>> JeSSe <zo@so.org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> The dam provides critical cooling to the Zaporizhzhia nuclear
> >>>> power plant as well as drinking water to Crimea
> >>>
> >>> Exactly. So perhaps you would explain why Putin would do something
> >>> so incredibly damaging to himself and his chances of success
> >>> without falling back on "mad mullah" demonisation.
> >>
> >> * You really think he gives a flying fuck about people drinking
> >> water in Crimea ?
> >
> > As I said;
>
> You have proven yourself over and over utterly worthless to attempt
> to have an adult debate with

ROTFLMAO.

Says the propagandist scum who won't answer the simple question of who he voted for.

On Tue, 6 Jun 2023 19:22:26 -0400
JeSSe <zo@so.org> wrote:

> The Happy Hippy wrote:
> > On Tue, 6 Jun 2023 14:00:57 -0400
> > JeSSe <zo@so.org> wrote:
> >
> >> The Happy Hippy wrote:
> >>> On Tue, 6 Jun 2023 10:01:11 -0400
> >>> JeSSe <zo@so.org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> It appears nearly certain that the invaders anticipated losing
> >>>> control of the area soon, and weren't about to let it fall
> >>>> intact.
> >>>
> >>> Entirely made up propagandist dribble.
> >>>
> >>> Once again; simply saying it's so doesn't make it so.
> >>>
> >> Dribble ? You mean drivel ?
> >
> > No I mean "dribble".
> >
> > But you can call it drivel if you want to. There's enough hot air
> > in here without me.
> >
> >
> >
> drib·ble
> /ˈdrib(ə)l/
>
> (chiefly in soccer, field hockey, and basketball) take (the ball)
> forward past opponents with slight touches of the feet or the stick,
> or (in basketball) by continuous bouncing.
> "he attempted to dribble the ball from the goal area"
>
> So I am a propagandist bouncing a basketball ??
>
>
> driv·el
> /ˈdriv(ə)l/
>
> talk nonsense. to talk stupidly and carelessly.
> "he was driveling on about the glory days"
>
> synonyms: talk nonsense, babble, ramble, gibber, burble, blather,
> blether, prate, prattle, gabble, chatter, twitter, maunder, talk
> rubbish, gab, talk through one's hat, witter on, waffle, bullshit
>
> What you meant, but with your fetish against admitting error, cannot
> admit
>
> I'm right, you are wrong, as usual.

No you are wrong. As usual.

The Happy Hippy wrote:
> On Tue, 6 Jun 2023 19:26:50 -0400
> JeSSe <zo@so.org> wrote:
>
>> The Happy Hippy wrote:
>>> On Tue, 6 Jun 2023 13:53:00 -0400
>>> JeSSe <zo@so.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The Happy Hippy wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 6 Jun 2023 10:01:11 -0400
>>>>> JeSSe <zo@so.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The dam provides critical cooling to the Zaporizhzhia nuclear
>>>>>> power plant as well as drinking water to Crimea
>>>>>
>>>>> Exactly. So perhaps you would explain why Putin would do something
>>>>> so incredibly damaging to himself and his chances of success
>>>>> without falling back on "mad mullah" demonisation.
>>>>
>>>> * You really think he gives a flying fuck about people drinking
>>>> water in Crimea ?
>>>
>>> As I said;
>>
>> You have proven yourself over and over utterly worthless to attempt
>> to have an adult debate with
>
> ROTFLMAO.
>
> Says the propagandist scum who won't answer the simple question of who he voted for.
>
Why don't you have kids, Xippy ?
[Don't get me wrong, its a great thing for UK that you didn't pass on
your tainted wingnut genetics to another generation]

Must be a mindfuck for you though, can't imagine how empty and worthless
you must feel, and rightly so. An isolated old coot with no past or
future, banging on the keyboard your only release from reality.

Ah look at all the lonely hippys
Ah look at all the lonely hippys

Eleanor Hippy, spins all his shit
In the group where hes lived at for years
Drinking his beers
Pounding the keyboard, slinging his lies
And his fears he is such a big bore
Who is it for ?

All the lonely hippys
Where do they all come from?
All the lonely hippys
Where do they all belong?

Truth poster Jesse, writing the words
Of a truth that all sane people hail
He never fails
Look at him posting, telling the truth
And enlightening from morning to night
He is so right !

All the lonely hippys
Where do they all come from?
All the lonely hippys
Where do they all belong?

Ah look at all the lonely hippys
Ah look at all the lonely hippys

Eleanor Hippy, died in his shack
And was buried along with his hair
Nobody cared
Truth poster Jesse, keeps up his work
Of the pride that the hippys disdain
What a big pain !

All the lonely hippys
Where do they all come from?
All the lonely hippys
Where do they all belong?

--
Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for
light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.

On Wed, 7 Jun 2023 12:16:45 -0400
JeSSe <zo@so.org> wrote:

> The Happy Hippy wrote:
> > On Tue, 6 Jun 2023 19:26:50 -0400
> > JeSSe <zo@so.org> wrote:
> >
> >> The Happy Hippy wrote:
> >>> On Tue, 6 Jun 2023 13:53:00 -0400
> >>> JeSSe <zo@so.org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> The Happy Hippy wrote:
> >>>>> On Tue, 6 Jun 2023 10:01:11 -0400
> >>>>> JeSSe <zo@so.org> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> The dam provides critical cooling to the Zaporizhzhia nuclear
> >>>>>> power plant as well as drinking water to Crimea
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Exactly. So perhaps you would explain why Putin would do
> >>>>> something so incredibly damaging to himself and his chances of
> >>>>> success without falling back on "mad mullah" demonisation.
> >>>>
> >>>> * You really think he gives a flying fuck about people drinking
> >>>> water in Crimea ?
> >>>
> >>> As I said;
> >>
> >> You have proven yourself over and over utterly worthless to attempt
> >> to have an adult debate with
> >
> > ROTFLMAO.
> >
> > Says the propagandist scum who won't answer the simple question of
> > who he voted for.
> Why don't you have kids, Xippy ?

Christ you are tiresome and pathetic. And all because you are too ashamed and chicken-shit scared to answer the simple question of who you voted for.

You really are wasting your life away.