Pondering replacing our elderly dishwasher. Rather than buying new, I was
wondering about buying a decent dishwasher a few years old - looking on ebay
you can buy a used Miele for the price of a new Beko. I'm not afraid of
doing repairs should they be necessary at some point.

Miele's parts system looks good - you can search for models going back to
the 80s, and it gives you parts lists, numbers, pricing and online ordering
(although older parts need to be ordered by phone). The prices are pretty
fierce, though (twas ever thus at Miele) - eg a pump-heater £475, PCB £400.
Miele say they offer 15 years parts availability or 10 years after the
product goes EOL, and in the past I've had luck with them at the 30+ year
mark, which is outstanding.

Bosch seem to have a similar system showing spares lists, pricing and
availability. They only offer 10 year parts availability though, and I'm
not sure how thorough the availability is. However the prices are a bit
less fearsome (pump-heater £95, PCB £193), which makes me wonder whether a
used Bosch might be a lower risk. OTOH with a shorter lifetime maybe the
parts won't be available when needed and the machine will be scrap.
Although if that happens plan B is to buy a second one and rob it for bits
(classic car style).

So I was wondering if anyone had any experiences with getting parts for
Bosch white goods and if that would inform a decision on buying them?

Are there any other brands which are worth considering from a
quality/repairability standpoint?

Thanks
Theo

Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>
> Pondering replacing our elderly dishwasher. Rather than buying new, I was
> wondering about buying a decent dishwasher a few years old - looking on ebay
> you can buy a used Miele for the price of a new Beko. I'm not afraid of
> doing repairs should they be necessary at some point.
>
> Miele's parts system looks good - you can search for models going back to
> the 80s, and it gives you parts lists, numbers, pricing and online ordering
> (although older parts need to be ordered by phone). The prices are pretty
> fierce, though (twas ever thus at Miele) - eg a pump-heater £475, PCB £400.
> Miele say they offer 15 years parts availability or 10 years after the
> product goes EOL, and in the past I've had luck with them at the 30+ year
> mark, which is outstanding.
>
> Bosch seem to have a similar system showing spares lists, pricing and
> availability. They only offer 10 year parts availability though, and I'm
> not sure how thorough the availability is. However the prices are a bit
> less fearsome (pump-heater £95, PCB £193), which makes me wonder whether a
> used Bosch might be a lower risk. OTOH with a shorter lifetime maybe the
> parts won't be available when needed and the machine will be scrap.
> Although if that happens plan B is to buy a second one and rob it for bits
> (classic car style).
>
> So I was wondering if anyone had any experiences with getting parts for
> Bosch white goods and if that would inform a decision on buying them?
>
> Are there any other brands which are worth considering from a
> quality/repairability standpoint?
>
> Thanks
> Theo
>

We tend to go Bosch and have never had a problem getting spares although
sometimes you do have to wait for parts to come from Germany. The up front
costs of Miele tend to put them out of reach for us although I appreciate
in the long term it probably pays off but being the age where I have less
years in front of me than behind, buying stuff with a 30+ lifespan has no
benefit.

I do not know about Miele but my one gripe with Bosch is that they do have
online service manuals but only make them available to trades people which
seems ludicrous in that you are willing to sell spares to the general
public but are not prepared to give them the information to make a safe
repair.

Richard

In article <lJc*3y2bz@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, Theo
<theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

> Pondering replacing our elderly dishwasher. Rather than buying new, I
> was wondering about buying a decent dishwasher a few years old - looking
> on ebay you can buy a used Miele for the price of a new Beko. I'm not
> afraid of doing repairs should they be necessary at some point.

> Miele's parts system looks good - you can search for models going back to
> the 80s, and it gives you parts lists, numbers, pricing and online
> ordering (although older parts need to be ordered by phone). The prices
> are pretty fierce, though (twas ever thus at Miele) - eg a pump-heater
> £475, PCB £400. Miele say they offer 15 years parts availability or 10
> years after the product goes EOL, and in the past I've had luck with them
> at the 30+ year mark, which is outstanding.

> Bosch seem to have a similar system showing spares lists, pricing and
> availability. They only offer 10 year parts availability though, and I'm
> not sure how thorough the availability is. However the prices are a bit
> less fearsome (pump-heater £95, PCB £193), which makes me wonder whether
> a used Bosch might be a lower risk. OTOH with a shorter lifetime maybe
> the parts won't be available when needed and the machine will be scrap.
> Although if that happens plan B is to buy a second one and rob it for
> bits (classic car style).

> So I was wondering if anyone had any experiences with getting parts for
> Bosch white goods and if that would inform a decision on buying them?

> Are there any other brands which are worth considering from a
> quality/repairability standpoint?

> Thanks Theo

I rebuilt our kitchen in 1988. We are on our 2nd Bosch dishwasher. the
original had a good 1ife of over 25 years.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On Sat, 25 Mar 2023 00:49:08 +1100, charles <charles@candehope.me.uk>
wrote:

> In article <lJc*3y2bz@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, Theo
> <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> Pondering replacing our elderly dishwasher. Rather than buying new, I
>> was wondering about buying a decent dishwasher a few years old - looking
>> on ebay you can buy a used Miele for the price of a new Beko. I'm not
>> afraid of doing repairs should they be necessary at some point.
>
>> Miele's parts system looks good - you can search for models going back
>> to
>> the 80s, and it gives you parts lists, numbers, pricing and online
>> ordering (although older parts need to be ordered by phone). The prices
>> are pretty fierce, though (twas ever thus at Miele) - eg a pump-heater
>> £475, PCB £400. Miele say they offer 15 years parts availability or 10
>> years after the product goes EOL, and in the past I've had luck with
>> them
>> at the 30+ year mark, which is outstanding.
>
>> Bosch seem to have a similar system showing spares lists, pricing and
>> availability. They only offer 10 year parts availability though, and
>> I'm
>> not sure how thorough the availability is. However the prices are a bit
>> less fearsome (pump-heater £95, PCB £193), which makes me wonder whether
>> a used Bosch might be a lower risk. OTOH with a shorter lifetime maybe
>> the parts won't be available when needed and the machine will be scrap.
>> Although if that happens plan B is to buy a second one and rob it for
>> bits (classic car style).
>
>> So I was wondering if anyone had any experiences with getting parts for
>> Bosch white goods and if that would inform a decision on buying them?
>
>> Are there any other brands which are worth considering from a
>> quality/repairability standpoint?
>
>> Thanks Theo
>
> I rebuilt our kitchen in 1988. We are on our 2nd Bosch dishwasher. the
> original had a good 1ife of over 25 years.

What failed with the first one ?

On 24 Mar 2023 at 13:49:08 GMT, charles wrote:

>> So I was wondering if anyone had any experiences with getting parts for
>> Bosch white goods and if that would inform a decision on buying them?
>
>> Are there any other brands which are worth considering from a
>> quality/repairability standpoint?

On very limited experience (a pump and a detergent dispenser) very good. But I
went for third party - 'genuine' were readily available, but cost conisderably
more.

I recently bought a new ('Series 2' - with the top rack cutlery tray) Bosch.
It works very well - a 3hr 50min eco mode does the trick if you have the time.

But it doesn't feel as well built - the racks don't slide smoothly, buttons
feel cheap, the lower below-door panel keeps coming loose. Door does have a
nice chunky close though :-)

As it happens I'm going to need to buy again (moving) - I'll have a good look
in the shops before buying. May well go second hand Miele/top of range
Bosch/Siemens.

--
Cheers, Rob, Sheffield UK

RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
> On 24 Mar 2023 at 13:49:08 GMT, charles wrote:
>
> >> So I was wondering if anyone had any experiences with getting parts for
> >> Bosch white goods and if that would inform a decision on buying them?
> >
> >> Are there any other brands which are worth considering from a
> >> quality/repairability standpoint?
>
> On very limited experience (a pump and a detergent dispenser) very good. But I
> went for third party - 'genuine' were readily available, but cost conisderably
> more.

It seems Miele mostly make their own parts, while Bosch has more of a supply
chain. That might mean generics are more easily available for Bosch.

> I recently bought a new ('Series 2' - with the top rack cutlery tray) Bosch.
> It works very well - a 3hr 50min eco mode does the trick if you have the time.

The downsides of new machines seems to be how long they take. Might have to
go for an extra quiet one so it's not endlessly grinding away.

> But it doesn't feel as well built - the racks don't slide smoothly, buttons
> feel cheap, the lower below-door panel keeps coming loose. Door does have a
> nice chunky close though :-)

I wonder if that's a feature of the lower end models. The Series 2 are
competing in the same territory as Beko etc, and some eg have plastic
interior rather than stainless steel.

> As it happens I'm going to need to buy again (moving) - I'll have a good look
> in the shops before buying. May well go second hand Miele/top of range
> Bosch/Siemens.

I have to say I haven't looked at Siemens. I know they're part of the Bosch
group but not clear how they stand in relation to the Bosch ranges.

Theo

>
> I have to say I haven't looked at Siemens. I know they're part of the Bosch
> group but not clear how they stand in relation to the Bosch ranges.
>
We had a Siemens washing machine I cannot remember how long but it seemed a
long time I replaced the brushes one time. The final time the circuit board
failed and I was going to replace it but it was almost half the price of a
new Bosch equivalent. SWAMBO decide to go new rather than risk further
failures.

The difference in the quality of the machines was very noticeable in the
thickness of the metal used in the casing the Siemens being thicker and the
casing felt more robust. As for the other parts electrics and mechanicals I
do not know if components are shared between Bosch and Siemens machines you
would expect it so, but then how would you justify paying a premium price
when the same could be got cheaper. A top of the range Bosch would probably
have the same functionality as a top range Siemens so it would have to come
down to build quality.

Do I regret replacing the Siemens? Yes I do!

On 26/03/2023 17:12, Tricky Dicky wrote:
>
>>
>> I have to say I haven't looked at Siemens. I know they're part of the Bosch
>> group but not clear how they stand in relation to the Bosch ranges.
>>
> We had a Siemens washing machine I cannot remember how long but it seemed a
> long time I replaced the brushes one time. The final time the circuit board
> failed and I was going to replace it but it was almost half the price of a
> new Bosch equivalent. SWAMBO decide to go new rather than risk further
> failures.
>
> The difference in the quality of the machines was very noticeable in the
> thickness of the metal used in the casing the Siemens being thicker and the
> casing felt more robust. As for the other parts electrics and mechanicals I
> do not know if components are shared between Bosch and Siemens machines you
> would expect it so, but then how would you justify paying a premium price
> when the same could be got cheaper. A top of the range Bosch would probably
> have the same functionality as a top range Siemens so it would have to come
> down to build quality.
>
> Do I regret replacing the Siemens? Yes I do!
>
>
All German white goods are made in turkey and are shit these days.

--
Climate Change: Socialism wearing a lab coat.

On 26/03/2023 16:12, Tricky Dicky wrote:
> We had a Siemens washing machine I cannot remember how long but it seemed a
> long time I replaced the brushes one time. The final time the circuit board
> failed and I was going to replace it but it was almost half the price of a
> new Bosch equivalent. SWAMBO decide to go new rather than risk further
> failures.
>
> The difference in the quality of the machines was very noticeable in the
> thickness of the metal used in the casing the Siemens being thicker and the
> casing felt more robust.

But you're comparing the build quality of a recent Bosch against a much
earlier Siemens one. The chances are that a Bosch machine from the same
era as the Siemens would have had the same build quality.

Sometimes manufactures produce similar quality goods under different
brand names targeted at people with different attitudes to spending and
charge more for the more 'upmarket' brands. E.g. Bosch -> Siemens,
Zanussi -> Electrolux -> AEG.

--
Mike Clarke