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aus+uk / uk.comp.os.linux / Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingled laptop drives?

SubjectAuthor
* Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingledJava Jive
+- Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingled laptop driveTheo
+* Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingledAndy Burns
|`- Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingled laptop driveChar Jackson
+* Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingledJ.O. Aho
|`* Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingledJim Kelly
| +- Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingledSjouke Burry
| +* Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingledJ.O. Aho
| |`- Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingledPaul
| `* Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingled laptop driveChris Green
|  `* Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingled laptop driveKen Blake
|   `- Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingledPaul
+* Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingledCarlos E.R.
|+* Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingledDavid W. Hodgins
||+- Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingledCarlos E.R.
||`* Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingledPaul
|| `- Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingledDavid W. Hodgins
|+* Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingledMartin Gregorie
||`- Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingledCarlos E.R.
|`- Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingledDavey
+* Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingledJava Jive
|+* Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingledJava Jive
||`* Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingledPaul
|| +* Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingledCarlos E.R.
|| |`- Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingledPaul
|| `* HDTune - fast at end? [1/1]J. P. Gilliver
||  `* Re: HDTune - fast at end? [1/1]Paul
||   `- Re: HDTune - fast at end? [1/1]J. P. Gilliver
|+* Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingledCarlos E.R.
||`- Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingledJava Jive
|`* Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingledJava Jive
| +- Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingledPaul
| +* Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingledAndy Burns
| |`- Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingledJava Jive
| +* Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingledCarlos E.R.
| |+* Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingledPaul
| ||`- Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingledCarlos E.R.
| |`- Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingledJava Jive
| +* Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingledPaul
| |`- Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingledJava Jive
| +* Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingledMartin Liddle
| |+* Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingledJava Jive
| ||`* Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingled laptop driveJ. P. Gilliver
| || `- Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingledPaul
| |`- Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingledZaidy036
| +* Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingled laptop driveChar Jackson
| |`- Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingledPaul
| `* Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingledJava Jive
|  `* Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingledDavid W. Hodgins
|   `* Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingledJava Jive
|    +* Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingledPaul
|    |`* Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingled laptop driveCharlie+
|    | `* Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingledPaul
|    |  `- Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingled laptop driveJim Lesurf
|    `- Re: Trans OS X-Post: Slow Boot & Poor Performance - Partially SolvedJava Jive
`* Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingledDave
 `* Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingled laptop driveJ. P. Gilliver
  `* Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingledPaul
   `- Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingled laptop driveJ. P. Gilliver

Pages:123
Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingled laptop drives?

<u0pt99$uefr$1@dont-email.me>

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From: nos...@needed.invalid (Paul)
Newsgroups: alt.windows7.general,uk.comp.os.linux,alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingled
laptop drives?
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2023 16:09:12 -0400
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 by: Paul - Fri, 7 Apr 2023 20:09 UTC

On 4/7/2023 10:49 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
> On Fri, 7 Apr 2023 08:19:48 +0100, Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> wrote:
>
>> Jim Kelly <invalid@invalid.net> wrote:
>>> On 06/04/2023 17:11, J.O. Aho wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I don't recommend QVO as it wears out faster.
>>>
>>> How fast? 5 years, 4 years, 3 years or just 6 months?
>>>
>>> For most people if a hard disk lasts for 5 years then they have done
>>> very well indeed.
>>
>> In 30 years or more of PC ownership
>
>
> 37 years for me.
>
>
>> I think I have only had one or two
>> disk drives fail,
>
>
> Zero failures for me.
>

Three in-service HDD failures. (Two Maxtor 40GB, a Barracuda 32550)
One infant-mortality (WD Black 1TB back to store for refund,
no motor operation brand new, six months ago).

Many drives "retired" before failure (rather than
being beaten on performance by newer drives). All
my crusty Seagate 500GB drives, are retired.

One 500GB drive has 57000 hours on it, and is in mint condition
as far as the benchmark curve is concerned. The drive does not
unload the heads while in service, either. It's been "flying"
for 57000 hours. That drive was retired, when the motherboard
failed. All the drives on the platform were cloned over, before
retirement.

Maybe two thirds of the HDD fleet is in good condition
(Reallocated == 0, benchmark curve Good).

*******

SSDs all good, but not used regularly. A recent upgrade
changed that (daily drivers are all SSD now). Ten SSDs total,
three in service. The other seven are for experiments.

One SSD was taken back to the store. Corsair Neutron. Some
SSD drives, when they are brand new, they need to be "written
from end to end", to freshen up the cells. Then, when you
bench the drive, it's a flat line at 450MB/sec on a SATA one.
On the Neutron, I was getting a little better than 100MB/sec
over most of the drive surface.

And I decided to take it back to the store "on principle".
That the drives should not sit on the shelf so long, that they
give crappy performance like that. If the computer store wants
to fix them, have at it kids.

I gave the store a print of my benches, so they could see
what the complaint is. The Corsair was originally an MLC drive,
which disappeared from the market when MLC NAND was no longer
available, and the same model came back with TLC chips in it instead
(and that means brand new firmware). And I don't know if a
different controller was used or not. But anyway, it went back
to the store, to keep the other SSDs company. Generally, you
do not see poor performance out of the box, with MLC based drives.

TLC or QLC drives, might need to be written from end to end,
to make the benches look "normal". Your choice of course.
If you're a trusting soul, the performance will "perk up"
a bit, as you use them. Can you wait that long ? :-) If
you are using a cheap drive, you'll never know until later,
whether 100MB/sec was actually "normal".

Paul

Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingled laptop drives?

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From: jav...@evij.com.invalid (Java Jive)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux,alt.windows7.general
Subject: Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingled
laptop drives?
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2023 22:38:46 +0100
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 by: Java Jive - Fri, 7 Apr 2023 21:38 UTC

On 07/04/2023 00:17, Java Jive wrote:
>
> On 06/04/2023 16:02, Java Jive wrote:
>>
>> Please excuse the Linux/Windows crosspost, this is a question about HD
>> hardware relevant to both OSs!
>
> Thanks for all the replies, all of which I've read and noted.
>
>> I have a Dell Precision M6300 that is slowing down really badly, and I
>> suspect, but have yet to prove, that the HD is failing.
>
> This afternoon I got around to testing the HD with CrystalMark, which
> gives it a Health Status of Good, though I wonder at what the columns
> actually mean, in particular:
>
> ID  Attribute Name             Current  Worst  Threshold  Raw Values
> 05  Reallocated Sectors Count  100      100    50         All zeros
> 0A  Spin Retry Count           253      100    30         All zeros
>
> The full log is appended.

It's not the disk. I tried swapping in P3's disk and the long delay
between the POST screen and beginning to load anything, XP in that case,
was still there.

The other test I've done today is run Dell's own diagnostics on it,
which took a very long time. Like CrystalMark, no fault was found with
the disk. The only thing thrown up that might be significant is that
the CPU fan speed is not being detected. The fan spins up alright, but
the system board cannot sense its speed, so perhaps the system is
slowing down the CPU to keep things cool?

At any rate, given the disk is fine, I see no particular need to replace
it yet, and I'll probably have to leave this now until I have less work
on, but thanks for all the helpful comments.

Also, I'm still interested in SDDs for other reasons, probably a 1 &/or
2TB. Two particular models have been discussed, a Samsung 860 EVO 1TB &
the QVO equivalent. Any others that have given people good service?

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingled laptop drives?

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From: nos...@needed.invalid (Paul)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux,alt.windows7.general
Subject: Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingled
laptop drives?
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 by: Paul - Sat, 8 Apr 2023 02:11 UTC

On 4/7/2023 5:38 PM, Java Jive wrote:
> On 07/04/2023 00:17, Java Jive wrote:
>>
>> On 06/04/2023 16:02, Java Jive wrote:
>>>
>>> Please excuse the Linux/Windows crosspost, this is a question about HD hardware relevant to both OSs!
>>
>> Thanks for all the replies, all of which I've read and noted.
>>
>>> I have a Dell Precision M6300 that is slowing down really badly, and I suspect, but have yet to prove, that the HD is failing.
>>
>> This afternoon I got around to testing the HD with CrystalMark, which gives it a Health Status of Good, though I wonder at what the columns actually mean, in particular:
>>
>> ID  Attribute Name             Current  Worst  Threshold  Raw Values
>> 05  Reallocated Sectors Count  100      100    50         All zeros
>> 0A  Spin Retry Count           253      100    30         All zeros
>>
>> The full log is appended.
>
> It's not the disk.  I tried swapping in P3's disk and the long delay between the POST screen and beginning to load anything, XP in that case, was still there.
>
> The other test I've done today is run Dell's own diagnostics on it, which took a very long time.  Like CrystalMark, no fault was found with the disk.  The only thing thrown up that might be significant is that the CPU fan speed is not being detected.  The fan spins up alright, but the system board cannot sense its speed, so perhaps the system is slowing down the CPU to keep things cool?
>
> At any rate, given the disk is fine, I see no particular need to replace it yet, and I'll probably have to leave this now until I have less work on, but thanks for all the helpful comments.
>
> Also, I'm still interested in SDDs for other reasons, probably a 1 &/or 2TB.  Two particular models have been discussed, a Samsung 860 EVO 1TB & the QVO equivalent.  Any others that have given people good service?

If you schedule a CHKDSK on C: , does the drive pass at that ?

After the CHKDSK is done, you can try defragmenting it.

If you suspect the drive has issues, you can do a backup before
attempting the defrag.

The WinXP defragmenter, was written by
"Presidents Software" and is a third-party defragmenter, and
attempts to do "perfect defragmentation", placing files
shoulder-to-shoulder. But like all things software, there
are things it cannot move, and it can get into a snit while
it is working, so the results are not always perfect. But it
does a better job on defrag, than the Win7 or Win10 build-in
defragmenter (written by Microsoft). The difference between them,
is the Presidents Software defrag can take over eight hours to run,
while the Win7 and Win10 would take around ten minutes for their
run. A pretty stark difference.

Generally, click the drive icon, Properties : Tools : Defragment,
to access the defragmenter.

The defragmenter also has some option to automatically operate.
This could be related to prefetch items, but I don't recollect the details.

One day, I can hear a "tone" coming from the drive. I use ProcMon to
check, and the WinXP defragmenter is moving *one* sector, from and to, the
same physical location on the drive. The defragmenter is in a loop!
That's an example of when you "don't want an SSD" :-) I'm sure the
SSD would just love a bug like that. You don't have to move too much
data around on the drive, and then it does not stay in that loop. The
beauty of the hard drive (at the time), is the tone (while weak)
did give me a warning of weirdness incoming.

One other thing to check out, is SuperFetch (AKA "sysmain" service),
is a bit of a pig. Sometimes it is responsible for disk activity
unrelated to things users are interested in. I don't have a proposed
"quick fix" for you though :-) On WinXP, this might be where the .pf
files come from (Prefetch). You might have to look up what the
equivalent names are for that stuff, on Windows XP.

*******

Samsung is having a bad quarter, from a sales perspective,
so if you're to get a "deal" from them on an SSD, this is
about the right time for it. They will have to cut production
of chips, to eliminate the excess and reduce inventory level.
And once they do that, they won't have to drop the retail
price quite as much.

This will give you some idea, what is happening to the price.
Be careful who you buy from, to get the right price.

https://ca.camelcamelcamel.com/product/B08QB93S6R

Unless you really need extra space, I would not get the QVO.
A QVO might make a good data-only drive, but for an OS drive,
like for my daily driver, I'd get something better. it all
depends on whether you have good backup automation, as to how
much sense a QVO makes.

Since WinXP does not support GPT, you're kinda stuck at the 2TB
point. If you bought an even larger drive, it can still be
partitioned up to 2.2TB, and the free pool of the drive can still
take advantage internally, from the extra NAND flash. You still get
the full wear life of the drive, in units of TBW. The NAND usage
is unaffected by the partitioning details on the outside of the drive.
Sector 0 is not stored at location 0. There is an internal translation
table, that converts external storage location, to internal NAND block.
Wear leveling ensures all blocks get equal usage.

There are mechanisms for using all 4TB of a 4TB drive, on Windows XP.
Acronis Capacity Manager is one, and there was a separate driver
written by someone else, which does similar. The problem is, there is
no matching capability on Linux (so it's not seamless, across platform).
I did set up a manual mount command (loopback mount with offset),
to mount a partition above 2.2TB, it worked, but for some reason,
it was dog-slow (10MB/sec). And I backed out that setup and moved on.
It was fun to get working, but not a long term solution. You don't
need a partition table entry, to "mount" a random starting address of
a hard drive. As long as you know what that address is, and, that the
partition does not "cross" any other partitions, you can use it.

Paul

Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingled laptop drives?

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From: nos...@needed.invalid (Paul)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux,alt.windows7.general
Subject: Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingled
laptop drives?
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 by: Paul - Sat, 8 Apr 2023 03:03 UTC

On 4/7/2023 3:44 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2023-04-07 14:46, Paul wrote:
>> On a hard drive, the outer circumference offers better rates than the
>> hub does, which is why the benchmark curve gently declines to half-rate.
>> When you see stairsteps in the bench curve, that is "zoned recording",
>> and the formatting of the tracks changes from one part of the disk
>> to another, on purpose. The stair steps then, are normal, and part of
>> design.
>
> Once I did a brute force test of a new disk. I made a lot of partitions, say 50. Then tested speed on each of them (probably using different filesystems, too). I think I used "hdparm -tT /dev/sdXY", maybe some dd read/write.
>
> It turned out that the disk was significantly faster at about 1/3 of the way. The centre was significantly slower.
>
> Of course, the disk might be lying about its geometry.
>

You would need some kind of disk-trace, to understand
exactly what that test is doing.

It could be, that the utility is intended to work with
a partition that is the same size as the entire disk.

To measure "stroke", needs an origin and a destination.

Perhaps the hdparm source code, has the answer ?

Paul

Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingled laptop drives?

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Newsgroups: alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux,alt.windows7.general
Subject: Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingled
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 by: Andy Burns - Sat, 8 Apr 2023 08:13 UTC

Java Jive wrote:

> The only thing thrown up that might be significant is that the CPU fan
> speed is not being detected.  The fan spins up alright,

I was going to ask id the vents are full of fluff, but presumably you'd
have noticed if you can see the fan spinning?

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Newsgroups: alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux,alt.windows7.general
Subject: Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingled
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 by: Carlos E.R. - Sat, 8 Apr 2023 12:22 UTC

On 2023-04-07 23:38, Java Jive wrote:
> On 07/04/2023 00:17, Java Jive wrote:
>> On 06/04/2023 16:02, Java Jive wrote:

>
> It's not the disk.  I tried swapping in P3's disk and the long delay
> between the POST screen and beginning to load anything, XP in that case,
> was still there.
>
> The other test I've done today is run Dell's own diagnostics on it,
> which took a very long time.  Like CrystalMark, no fault was found with
> the disk.  The only thing thrown up that might be significant is that
> the CPU fan speed is not being detected.  The fan spins up alright, but
> the system board cannot sense its speed, so perhaps the system is
> slowing down the CPU to keep things cool?

That would be weird. A computer can indeed slow the CPU if it is hot,
but the fan speed should not matter.

Indeed, I have noticed in seemingly powerful, fanless laptopts and mini
pcs, that they start a a heavy cpu task at full speed, and after half a
minute they slow down because the CPU can not evacuate the heat at that
pace.

The machines are good for desktop use, where they respond fast to user
actions on a document, but not if the task is long.

Which is fine, if you know that design choice.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

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Newsgroups: alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux,alt.windows7.general
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 by: Paul - Sat, 8 Apr 2023 12:36 UTC

On 4/7/2023 5:38 PM, Java Jive wrote:

> The only thing thrown up that might be significant is that the CPU fan speed is not being detected.
Fan speed is typically done with a three wire fan, and
the third wire has the two-pulse-per-rotation signal on it.

In the superIO, the hardware monitor uses a "period counter"
to count ticks between pulses. If the "period counter"
does a carry out (overflows), then the software concludes the
fan is not running or the RPM are too low. This puts a lower
limit on detected RPM. I had problems with this, on some
of my earlier desktops, they refused to put large enough
counter chains to do a good job on fan RPM. Maybe I would
get 1200 RPM, but 1199 RPM would register as 0 in the software.

Counter value Diagnostic Result

0 No pulses! Report zero RPM
1-255 Working Take inverse of period, in ticks
>255 Overflow Report zero, but fan RPM is actually < RPM_min limit of SuperIO.
Fan is spinning, but SW makes no distinction for "1199 RPM" case.

The fan is a 12V device. Either a 12V signal or a 5V signal
could come out of the fan. The SuperIO can have a circuit with
a couple resistors and a zener. The zener clips the fan
signal to a safe input level (for 5V TTL on the SuperIO). One
of the resistors, allows the open collector RPM signal to swing
to 12V if it wants (for 12V fans).

Paul

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Newsgroups: alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux,alt.windows7.general
Subject: Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingled
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 by: Java Jive - Sat, 8 Apr 2023 13:08 UTC

On 08/04/2023 09:13, Andy Burns wrote:
>
> Java Jive wrote:
>>
>> The only thing thrown up that might be significant is that the CPU fan
>> speed is not being detected.  The fan spins up alright,
>
> I was going to ask id the vents are full of fluff, but presumably you'd
> have noticed if you can see the fan spinning?

More a question of hearing, but there's no significant amount of fluff
blocking the vents.

Also, after posting last night, I installed SpeedFan and RMSpy on the
problem machine. SpeedFan shows that the temperatures are very
reasonable, mostly around 50-60C. RMSpy shows varying CPU speeds mostly
less then 1 GHz when idle, occasionally exceeding that number when
busier, for example while loading PaintShopPro.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

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 by: Paul - Sat, 8 Apr 2023 13:11 UTC

On 4/8/2023 8:22 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2023-04-07 23:38, Java Jive wrote:
>> On 07/04/2023 00:17, Java Jive wrote:
>>> On 06/04/2023 16:02, Java Jive wrote:
>
>
>>
>> It's not the disk.  I tried swapping in P3's disk and the long delay between the POST screen and beginning to load anything, XP in that case, was still there.
>>
>> The other test I've done today is run Dell's own diagnostics on it, which took a very long time.  Like CrystalMark, no fault was found with the disk.  The only thing thrown up that might be significant is that the CPU fan speed is not being detected.  The fan spins up alright, but the system board cannot sense its speed, so perhaps the system is slowing down the CPU to keep things cool?
>
> That would be weird. A computer can indeed slow the CPU if it is hot, but the fan speed should not matter.
>
> Indeed, I have noticed in seemingly powerful, fanless laptopts and mini pcs, that they start a a heavy cpu task at full speed, and after half a minute they slow down because the CPU can not evacuate the heat at that pace.
>
> The machines are good for desktop use, where they respond fast to user actions on a document, but not if the task is long.
>
> Which is fine, if you know that design choice.
>
>

Intel CPUs do Turbo for 28 seconds or 56 seconds.
After that time, they run at a lower speed. Some review
articles describe such policies.

What you're hearing, could be the Turbo profile.

Paul

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 by: Carlos E.R. - Sat, 8 Apr 2023 13:28 UTC

On 2023-04-08 15:11, Paul wrote:
> On 4/8/2023 8:22 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> On 2023-04-07 23:38, Java Jive wrote:
>>> On 07/04/2023 00:17, Java Jive wrote:
>>>> On 06/04/2023 16:02, Java Jive wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> It's not the disk.  I tried swapping in P3's disk and the long delay
>>> between the POST screen and beginning to load anything, XP in that
>>> case, was still there.
>>>
>>> The other test I've done today is run Dell's own diagnostics on it,
>>> which took a very long time.  Like CrystalMark, no fault was found
>>> with the disk.  The only thing thrown up that might be significant is
>>> that the CPU fan speed is not being detected.  The fan spins up
>>> alright, but the system board cannot sense its speed, so perhaps the
>>> system is slowing down the CPU to keep things cool?
>>
>> That would be weird. A computer can indeed slow the CPU if it is hot,
>> but the fan speed should not matter.
>>
>> Indeed, I have noticed in seemingly powerful, fanless laptopts and
>> mini pcs, that they start a a heavy cpu task at full speed, and after
>> half a minute they slow down because the CPU can not evacuate the heat
>> at that pace.
>>
>> The machines are good for desktop use, where they respond fast to user
>> actions on a document, but not if the task is long.
>>
>> Which is fine, if you know that design choice.
>>
>>
>
> Intel CPUs do Turbo for 28 seconds or 56 seconds.
> After that time, they run at a lower speed. Some review
> articles describe such policies.
>
> What you're hearing, could be the Turbo profile.

Maybe.

It is on Linux. One machine has a Intel(R) Pentium(R) CPU N3710 @
1.60GHz, another has a Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU N3060 @ 1.60GHz. Yet
another is from another person.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

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 by: Java Jive - Sat, 8 Apr 2023 16:15 UTC

On 08/04/2023 13:22, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>
> On 2023-04-07 23:38, Java Jive wrote:
>>
>> The other test I've done today is run Dell's own diagnostics on it,
>> which took a very long time.  Like CrystalMark, no fault was found
>> with the disk.  The only thing thrown up that might be significant is
>> that the CPU fan speed is not being detected.  The fan spins up
>> alright, but the system board cannot sense its speed, so perhaps the
>> system is slowing down the CPU to keep things cool?
>
> That would be weird. A computer can indeed slow the CPU if it is hot,
> but the fan speed should not matter.

Yes, fair point, I hadn't quite thought that through.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

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 by: Java Jive - Sat, 8 Apr 2023 16:49 UTC

On 08/04/2023 13:36, Paul wrote:
>
> On 4/7/2023 5:38 PM, Java Jive wrote:
>>
>> The only thing thrown up that might be significant is that the CPU fan
>> speed is not being detected.
>
> Fan speed is typically done with a three wire fan, and
> the third wire has the two-pulse-per-rotation signal on it.

Yes. As you say, the wiring is red, yellow, black to a standard mobo
connector. I presume the yellow is the fan-speed signal.

All of these being quite old laptops, the fans - there are two, 1 CPU,
1 GPU - tend to be noisy, and, unfortunately, they're a pain to swap,
you have to remove the keyboard, screen, and palm rest to get at them.
It's ridiculous really, considering they're a moving part so their
eventual failure is entirely predictable, why not mount them in
something equivalent to a drive bay so that they can be changed by
removing a couple of screws and sliding out a module, just like you
change a HD? It would add bugger-all to the price, might even reduce
it, because fans would then become more standardised, instead of the
proliferation of ever-so-slightly different models in similar laptops
that happens at the moment.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

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 by: Martin Liddle - Sat, 8 Apr 2023 17:14 UTC

On 07/04/2023 22:38, Java Jive wrote:
>
> Also, I'm still interested in SDDs for other reasons, probably a 1 &/or
> 2TB.  Two particular models have been discussed, a Samsung 860 EVO 1TB &
> the QVO equivalent.  Any others that have given people good service?
>
I use Samsung EVO for mission critical stuff but the rest of my my
computers have Crucial SSDs of various models. In the past I have had
several conventional hard drive failures but so far (touchwood) no
failures at all with SSDs.
--
Martin Liddle,
Staveley, Chesterfield, Derbyshire UK

Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingled laptop drives?

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From: jav...@evij.com.invalid (Java Jive)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux,alt.windows7.general
Subject: Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingled
laptop drives?
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 by: Java Jive - Sat, 8 Apr 2023 17:36 UTC

On 08/04/2023 18:14, Martin Liddle wrote:
>
> On 07/04/2023 22:38, Java Jive wrote:
>>
>> Also, I'm still interested in SDDs for other reasons, probably a 1
>> &/or 2TB.  Two particular models have been discussed, a Samsung 860
>> EVO 1TB & the QVO equivalent.  Any others that have given people good
>> service?
>
> I use Samsung EVO for mission critical stuff but the rest of my my
> computers have Crucial SSDs of various models.

Thanks, another vote for Samsung EVO then ...

> In the past I have had
> several conventional hard drive failures but so far (touchwood) no
> failures at all with SSDs.

Yes, previously, I've rather been put off SSD drives, because ...

- I have a SanDisk 120GB which needed replacing while under
warranty, a hassle which involved me driving 60 miles or so to Inverness
to get to the nearest drop-off point in their return system, but TBF the
replacement is still working;
- Additionally I have had about 25 USB sticks, of which 3 died early;

.... which between them give a combined failure rate of at least 15%,
which I would have guessed was higher than that for conventional HDs,
but now, trying to remember back systematically as best as I can over
about 3 to 4 decades, actually I recall 5 early failures in at least
about 25 HDs, or a maximum of around 20%, so for me SSDs certainly have
performed no worse, and most probably have performed better, than
conventional HDs, which I wouldn't have expected to be the case without
systematically trying to recall the details of the HDs that I've had.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingled laptop drives?

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 by: Zaidy036 - Sat, 8 Apr 2023 19:38 UTC

On 4/8/2023 1:14 PM, Martin Liddle wrote:
> On 07/04/2023 22:38, Java Jive wrote:
>>
>> Also, I'm still interested in SDDs for other reasons, probably a 1
>> &/or 2TB.  Two particular models have been discussed, a Samsung 860
>> EVO 1TB & the QVO equivalent.  Any others that have given people good
>> service?
>>
> I use Samsung EVO for mission critical stuff but the rest of my my
> computers have Crucial SSDs of various models.  In the past I have had
> several conventional hard drive failures but so far (touchwood) no
> failures at all with SSDs.

- Just to add another vote for Samsung:
My C: SSD 840 EVO 500GB ATA Device (SATA SSD) was installed 13 Jan 2010
and now shows "68 days" left but what "days" means is not well defined
and comes up as 68% life on other check apps. Now reduces at <1% per month.

It has always been on 24/7 except during vacation and started on Win 7
Home 32 bit and on Win 10 Pro 64 bit for the last year.

I have a Samsung 870 EVO 500GB, cloned to my C:, sitting on my desk
waiting as insurance .... bought on Amazon for only $42 delivered.

Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingled laptop drives?

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From: non...@none.invalid (Char Jackson)
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Subject: Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingled laptop drives?
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 by: Char Jackson - Sat, 8 Apr 2023 21:10 UTC

On Fri, 7 Apr 2023 22:38:46 +0100, Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid>
wrote:

>Also, I'm still interested in SDDs for other reasons, probably a 1 &/or
>2TB. Two particular models have been discussed, a Samsung 860 EVO 1TB &
>the QVO equivalent. Any others that have given people good service?

People have been talking about Samsung QVO and EVO, but I'd like to toss
out a recommendation for Samsung Pro.

This article is one of many that tries to describe the differences
between the 3 Samsung product lines.

https://www.partitionwizard.com/clone-disk/samsung-qvo-vs-evo.html

Samsung QVO vs EVO vs PRO: What's the Difference?

How to Interpret Samsung SSD Model: QVO vs EVO vs PRO

In general, Samsung SSDs are mainly divided into two categories:
enterprise-level SSDs and consumer-level SSDs. Enterprise SSDs focus on
data integrity, followed by capacity and performance, and finally cost.
Consumer SSDs first seek cost, followed by capacity and performance, and
finally data integrity.

In addition, consumer-level SSDs are also divided into two categories:
SSDs for retail customers and SSDs for OEM customers. QVO, EVO, and PRO
usually appear in retail customer SSD models in the form of a suffix. To
some extent, these suffixes indicate different technologies applied in
NAND flash of these SSDs.

As we all know, an SSD often uses NAND flash to store data persistently.
When the NAND flash is made via different technologies, the SSD storage,
performance, and lifespan will vary accordingly. In Samsung SSDs, PRO
indicates the SSD uses MLC, EVO indicates the SSD uses TLC, and QVO
indicates the SSD uses QLC.

MLC, short for Multi-Level Cell, means that one memory cell can store 2
bits of data.

TLC, short for Triple-Level Cell, means that one memory cell can store 3
bits of data.

QLC, short for Quad-Level Cell, means that one memory cell can store 4
bits of data.

Cost: PRO SSD is the most expensive, then the EVO SSD, and finally the
QVO SSD.

Performance: performance of Samsung PRO SSD is the best, then the EVO
SSD, and finally the QVO SSD.

Lifespan: the lifespan of Samsung PRO SSD is the longest, then the EVO
SSD, and finally the QVO SSD.

....there is no other difference in technology among Samsung PRO, EVO,
and QVO SSDs, apart from NAND flash memory. But Samsung QVO, EVO, and
PRO SSDs still vary in performance and warranty (you regard it as
lifespan).

Samsung PRO SSD: It is currently the company’s flagship SATA SSD.
With MLC technology, its speed and the endurance rating or TBW make it
stand out from Samsung 860 QVO vs EVO vs PRO comparison. Although its
warranty period is similar with the 860 EVO series, its TBW is doubled.
But it’s also the most expensive one as well. On Amazon, it starts at
$87.99 (for 256GB).
Samsung EVO SSD: It’s one of the most popular SSD series in the
market and offers similar or near the performance of the 860 PRO SSD
series, but at a more affordable price. On Amazon, it starts at $59.98
(for 250GB).
Samsung QVO SSD: It is Samsung’s first consumer-grade quad-level
cell (QLC) NAND drive and has the same sequential read and write speed
with the 860 EVO. But the 4KB random read and write speeds and TBW can't
match with those of 860 EVO series. Its only advantage is price,
starting at $109.99 (for 1TB) on Amazon.

In a word, if you want a large-capacity and cost-effective SSD, you can
buy 860 QVO. If you have no special demand, 860 EVO is sufficient. If
you need an SSD that be used under heavy load, I recommended you to buy
860 PRO.

(end article quote, but there's more at the link above)

Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingled laptop drives?

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From: jav...@evij.com.invalid (Java Jive)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux,alt.windows7.general
Subject: Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingled
laptop drives?
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 by: Java Jive - Sat, 8 Apr 2023 22:14 UTC

On 07/04/2023 22:38, Java Jive wrote:
> On 07/04/2023 00:17, Java Jive wrote:
>>
>> On 06/04/2023 16:02, Java Jive wrote:
>>>
>>> Please excuse the Linux/Windows crosspost, this is a question about
>>> HD hardware relevant to both OSs!
>>
>> Thanks for all the replies, all of which I've read and noted.
>>
>>> I have a Dell Precision M6300 that is slowing down really badly, and
>>> I suspect, but have yet to prove, that the HD is failing.
>>
>> This afternoon I got around to testing the HD with CrystalMark, which
>> gives it a Health Status of Good, though I wonder at what the columns
>> actually mean, in particular:
>>
>> ID  Attribute Name             Current  Worst  Threshold  Raw Values
>> 05  Reallocated Sectors Count  100      100    50         All zeros
>> 0A  Spin Retry Count           253      100    30         All zeros
>>
>> The full log is appended.
>
> It's not the disk.  I tried swapping in P3's disk and the long delay
> between the POST screen and beginning to load anything, XP in that case,
> was still there.
>
> The other test I've done today is run Dell's own diagnostics on it,
> which took a very long time.  Like CrystalMark, no fault was found with
> the disk.  The only thing thrown up that might be significant is that
> the CPU fan speed is not being detected.  The fan spins up alright, but
> the system board cannot sense its speed, so perhaps the system is
> slowing down the CPU to keep things cool?
>
> At any rate, given the disk is fine, I see no particular need to replace
> it yet, and I'll probably have to leave this now until I have less work
> on, but thanks for all the helpful comments.

Well now, the plot ever thickens ...

Booting from a W98 DOS Mode USB-stick, it gets to the config.sys menu in
just 9 secs, just the same as the others!

WTF is going on here???!!!

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingled laptop drives?

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From: dwhodg...@nomail.afraid.org (David W. Hodgins)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux,alt.windows7.general
Subject: Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingled
laptop drives?
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 by: David W. Hodgins - Sat, 8 Apr 2023 22:53 UTC

On Sat, 08 Apr 2023 18:14:23 -0400, Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
> Well now, the plot ever thickens ...
>
> Booting from a W98 DOS Mode USB-stick, it gets to the config.sys menu in
> just 9 secs, just the same as the others!
>
> WTF is going on here???!!!

Different controllers. Perhaps there is a problem with the sata controller or
one of the devices connected to it (in terms of the device being slow to
initialize), or a barely working sata cable/connector.

Start by re-seating all of the sata connectors.

Regards, Dave Hodgins

Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingled laptop drives?

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Newsgroups: alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux,alt.windows7.general
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 by: Paul - Sun, 9 Apr 2023 01:49 UTC

On 4/8/2023 5:10 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
> On Fri, 7 Apr 2023 22:38:46 +0100, Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> Also, I'm still interested in SDDs for other reasons, probably a 1 &/or
>> 2TB. Two particular models have been discussed, a Samsung 860 EVO 1TB &
>> the QVO equivalent. Any others that have given people good service?
>
> People have been talking about Samsung QVO and EVO, but I'd like to toss
> out a recommendation for Samsung Pro.
>
> This article is one of many that tries to describe the differences
> between the 3 Samsung product lines.
>
> https://www.partitionwizard.com/clone-disk/samsung-qvo-vs-evo.html
>
> Samsung QVO vs EVO vs PRO: What's the Difference?
>
> How to Interpret Samsung SSD Model: QVO vs EVO vs PRO
>
> In general, Samsung SSDs are mainly divided into two categories:
> enterprise-level SSDs and consumer-level SSDs. Enterprise SSDs focus on
> data integrity, followed by capacity and performance, and finally cost.
> Consumer SSDs first seek cost, followed by capacity and performance, and
> finally data integrity.
>
> In addition, consumer-level SSDs are also divided into two categories:
> SSDs for retail customers and SSDs for OEM customers. QVO, EVO, and PRO
> usually appear in retail customer SSD models in the form of a suffix. To
> some extent, these suffixes indicate different technologies applied in
> NAND flash of these SSDs.
>
> As we all know, an SSD often uses NAND flash to store data persistently.
> When the NAND flash is made via different technologies, the SSD storage,
> performance, and lifespan will vary accordingly. In Samsung SSDs, PRO
> indicates the SSD uses MLC, EVO indicates the SSD uses TLC, and QVO
> indicates the SSD uses QLC.
>
> MLC, short for Multi-Level Cell, means that one memory cell can store 2
> bits of data.
>
> TLC, short for Triple-Level Cell, means that one memory cell can store 3
> bits of data.
>
> QLC, short for Quad-Level Cell, means that one memory cell can store 4
> bits of data.
>
> Cost: PRO SSD is the most expensive, then the EVO SSD, and finally the
> QVO SSD.
>
> Performance: performance of Samsung PRO SSD is the best, then the EVO
> SSD, and finally the QVO SSD.
>
> Lifespan: the lifespan of Samsung PRO SSD is the longest, then the EVO
> SSD, and finally the QVO SSD.
>
> ...there is no other difference in technology among Samsung PRO, EVO,
> and QVO SSDs, apart from NAND flash memory. But Samsung QVO, EVO, and
> PRO SSDs still vary in performance and warranty (you regard it as
> lifespan).
>
> Samsung PRO SSD: It is currently the company’s flagship SATA SSD.
> With MLC technology, its speed and the endurance rating or TBW make it
> stand out from Samsung 860 QVO vs EVO vs PRO comparison. Although its
> warranty period is similar with the 860 EVO series, its TBW is doubled.
> But it’s also the most expensive one as well. On Amazon, it starts at
> $87.99 (for 256GB).
> Samsung EVO SSD: It’s one of the most popular SSD series in the
> market and offers similar or near the performance of the 860 PRO SSD
> series, but at a more affordable price. On Amazon, it starts at $59.98
> (for 250GB).
> Samsung QVO SSD: It is Samsung’s first consumer-grade quad-level
> cell (QLC) NAND drive and has the same sequential read and write speed
> with the 860 EVO. But the 4KB random read and write speeds and TBW can't
> match with those of 860 EVO series. Its only advantage is price,
> starting at $109.99 (for 1TB) on Amazon.
>
> In a word, if you want a large-capacity and cost-effective SSD, you can
> buy 860 QVO. If you have no special demand, 860 EVO is sufficient. If
> you need an SSD that be used under heavy load, I recommended you to buy
> 860 PRO.
>
> (end article quote, but there's more at the link above)
>

On the Samsung consumer SATA side, they have stopped with the Pro SKUs.
Some of the older lines had Pro, and likely honest to goodness MLC. I think
I may have one or two of those here. As far as I know, the 870 SATA line,
the top SKU is 870 EVO.

The NVMe still have Pro, but what do I find ?

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/samsung-990-pro-ssd-review/2

"After the pSLC cache runs out, the 990 Pro maintains around 1.4 GBps
in a direct-to-TLC mode. This is slower than expected and, indeed, the
rest of the drives in the test will all eventually out-write it."

Samsung likes to pretend they are "challenged by the English language"
and it's all a merry mixup. I find all sorts of bullshit in adverts,
which may have been put there by the vendors. How can you
nail them down on stuff like this, when the mothership is so "wishy-washy"
with terminology of "MLC-like". Either it is MLC or it is not.
There's no excuse for shit like that.

As soon as people talk of "SLC-cache" or the pSLC term (pseudo SLC) made up
in that review, then it's just TLC or QLC under the covers. And the writes happen
in two phases (which is not good for wear life).

At the current time, there is an issue with 980 Pro and 990 Pro
requiring a firmware upgrade before you use them. Ask your retailer
for details. The firmware was sparing out good sectors, and the
life indicator was rocketing down when nothing was going on.
The new firmware does not reverse the sparing situation either.
That's why you must do the firmware update immediately
if buying one brand new, and not wanting to lose service life.

With OCZ, it was changing flash chips used, in the middle
of a production run. My Corsair Neutron was like that too, showing
up with TLC in it. With WD/Seagate, it was trying to pass off
shingled drives as suitable usage in a NAS. Storage is like a
series of dark alleys downtown. Carry a flashlight at all times,
or you'll get mugged.

Paul

Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingled laptop drives?

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From: jav...@evij.com.invalid (Java Jive)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux,alt.windows7.general
Subject: Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingled
laptop drives?
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2023 13:07:03 +0100
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 by: Java Jive - Mon, 10 Apr 2023 12:07 UTC

On 08/04/2023 23:53, David W. Hodgins wrote:
>
> On Sat, 08 Apr 2023 18:14:23 -0400, Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid>
> wrote:
>>
>> Well now, the plot ever thickens ...
>>
>> Booting from a W98 DOS Mode USB-stick, it gets to the config.sys menu in
>> just 9 secs, just the same as the others!
>>
>> WTF is going on here???!!!
>
> Different controllers. Perhaps there is a problem with the sata
> controller or one of the devices connected to it (in terms of
> the device being slow to initialize), or a barely working sata
> cable/connector.
>
> Start by re-seating all of the sata connectors.

I'd already removed the HD to try the P3 one, but nevertheless I took it
out again and examined the connectors, and there's nothing visibly wrong
with them. I can't examine the mobo connectors or the controller chip
without a major dismantling of the laptop, and I'm too busy to do that ATM.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingled laptop drives?

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From: nos...@needed.invalid (Paul)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux,alt.windows7.general
Subject: Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingled
laptop drives?
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 by: Paul - Mon, 10 Apr 2023 12:57 UTC

On 4/10/2023 8:07 AM, Java Jive wrote:
> On 08/04/2023 23:53, David W. Hodgins wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, 08 Apr 2023 18:14:23 -0400, Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>> Well now, the plot ever thickens ...
>>>
>>> Booting from a W98 DOS Mode USB-stick, it gets to the config.sys menu in
>>> just 9 secs, just the same as the others!
>>>
>>> WTF is going on here???!!!
>>
>> Different controllers. Perhaps there is a problem with the sata controller or one of the devices connected to it (in terms of the device being slow to initialize), or a barely working sata
>> cable/connector.
>>
>> Start by re-seating all of the sata connectors.
>
> I'd already removed the HD to try the P3 one, but nevertheless I took it out again and examined the connectors, and there's nothing visibly wrong with them.  I can't examine the mobo connectors or the controller chip without a major dismantling of the laptop, and I'm too busy to do that ATM.
>

There are CRC counters on either end of the SATA link.
On a CRC error, a transmission can be repeated
(details unknown to me).

If you kink a SATA cable, it can have a high error rate.
SATA cables should be treated (roughly) like optical cable.
Don't exceed the bend radius allowed for SATA cables.
(The SATA cables that arrive in the mail, with an elastic
wrapped around them multiple times, that just makes me "nuts"
when I see that :-/ DONT DO THAT. )

SMART has the counter for the disk drive end. If there
is an OS performance counter, I don't know where that is buried.

*******

You could have a logjam in the PCI Express or DMI tree
in theory, but I doubt anyone, even with a pathological
setup, has managed that. It's possible to oversubscribe,
from the Southbridge end of the system, and not have
enough bandwidth. Normal computer usage, is never heavy
enough to make such as an observable condition. the computer
continues to work, that is not a problem, but the speeds
may no longer be optimal.

*******

CPUs have two levels of throttling. See references to
Dell "Throttlegate", for which the PDF is pretty hard to find.
It's a 25 page document, where a user researched why his
computer was slow. A couple Dell laptops seemed to have an
overaggressive BIOS throttling thing, where once the
computer slowed down, it would not speed up when the
anomalous operating conditions were removed. Only a reboot
would attempt to resolve the matter.

You can run Live Media, do "TORAM=yes" on the boot line,
then run a bench in there, to see what a different operating
environment finds. By running with media stored in RAM,
this removed disks from the picture, so you can study "slowness"
without disks.

Paul

Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingled laptop drives?

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From: dav...@cyw.uklinux.net (Dave)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux,alt.windows7.general
Subject: Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingled
laptop drives?
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 by: Dave - Mon, 10 Apr 2023 18:24 UTC

On 06/04/2023 16:02, Java Jive wrote:

> Can anyone point to a UK source of reliable, genuinely new, moderately
> priced non-shingled laptop drives from about 500GB to 1.5TB?

WD model WD10JUCT is available from various suppliers for about £60.
It's intended for CCTV, DVRs and similar uses where the volume of data
written is similar to the volume read. OK the ones I have are new-old
stock dated 2017 - 2019.
--
Dave

Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingled laptop drives?

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 by: Charlie+ - Tue, 11 Apr 2023 06:05 UTC

On Mon, 10 Apr 2023 08:57:10 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote
as underneath :

snip
>If you kink a SATA cable, it can have a high error rate.
>SATA cables should be treated (roughly) like optical cable.
>Don't exceed the bend radius allowed for SATA cables.
>(The SATA cables that arrive in the mail, with an elastic
>wrapped around them multiple times, that just makes me "nuts"
>when I see that :-/ DONT DO THAT. )
>
snip
> Paul

Thanks I didnt know that! Have seen SATA cables supplied oem with
motherboards folded but not that tightly. I once pulled a failing flat
red type cable to bits out of interest and found Alu. single strands
crimped to contacts inside the moulded ends which was a surprise to me.
C+

Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingled laptop drives?

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From: nos...@needed.invalid (Paul)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux,alt.windows7.general
Subject: Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingled
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 by: Paul - Tue, 11 Apr 2023 08:38 UTC

On 4/11/2023 2:05 AM, Charlie+ wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Apr 2023 08:57:10 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote
> as underneath :
>
> snip
>> If you kink a SATA cable, it can have a high error rate.
>> SATA cables should be treated (roughly) like optical cable.
>> Don't exceed the bend radius allowed for SATA cables.
>> (The SATA cables that arrive in the mail, with an elastic
>> wrapped around them multiple times, that just makes me "nuts"
>> when I see that :-/ DONT DO THAT. )
>>
> snip
>> Paul
>
> Thanks I didnt know that! Have seen SATA cables supplied oem with
> motherboards folded but not that tightly. I once pulled a failing flat
> red type cable to bits out of interest and found Alu. single strands
> crimped to contacts inside the moulded ends which was a surprise to me.
> C+
>

There has to be a pronounced kink in it,
for the error counter to see an issue.

When you kink the cable, it crushes that white
insulating material and changes the transmission
line impedance.

Paul

Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingled laptop drives?

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From: noi...@audiomisc.co.uk (Jim Lesurf)
Subject: Re: Trans OS X-Post: What do people do about obtaining non-shingled laptop drives?
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux,alt.windows7.general
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2023 09:59:56 +0100
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 by: Jim Lesurf - Tue, 11 Apr 2023 08:59 UTC

In article <u136b4$2ile3$1@dont-email.me>, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
wrote:

> There has to be a pronounced kink in it, for the error counter to see an
> issue.

> When you kink the cable, it crushes that white insulating material and
> changes the transmission line impedance.

The 'kink' be better modelled as an added shunt component as it is
localised. However if the cable folded so lengths are close together, the
problem may be cross-field coupling between them. The fields that carry the
signal energy are outside the metal of the wires.

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

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