Obviously, which is why he steadfastly refused to have his innovative
death trap independently tested and fired any 50 year old white guys who
disagreed with him, that would hamper his rule breaking which cost 4
innocent lives.

He also quoted MacArthur [his claim, who knows if its accurate] that
people are remembered more by their failures than successes - In his
case, very accurate quote.

Can't completely absolve those who paid an exorbitant fee for a ride in
this innovative coffin though, perhaps being billionaires they are so
insulated from every day life that they didn't heed the warning signs
that were all around them, which others in the same situation did.

$24.99 toy remote with 100's of bad amazon reviews, rusted pipes for
ballast, jury rigged lights from a camping store and being bolted into
this contraption should have caused them to ask for a refund but no,
their inexperience, general Titanic obsession and the reassuring words
from this shoddy hustler caused target fixation and overrode what common
sense they had - A once in a lifetime adventure doesn't mean a whole lot
when its the last thing you'll ever do.

Lets just hope they went quick, still don't know and possibly won't ever
know if the haul failed from fatigue, the plexiglas bubble gave out or
if ramming it into the sea floor/Titanic itself caused it to rupture.
Can't rule out a fire in the death trap either, if any of their
recording gear survived and is found then perhaps we'll know.

```````````````````````````

'I've broken some rules to make this': How OceanGate boss revealed the
7in acrylic window on lost Titan sub would get 'squeezed in' under water
pressure and admitted he ignored guidance to create deep sea vessel

Footage has emerged of Rush giving a tour of Titan deep sea vessel
to actor
He admits he has had to break rules to build the sub that is
currently lost at sea

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12222279/OceanGate-boss-Stockton-Rush-revealed-hes-broken-rules-make-lost-Titan-sub.html
--
Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for
light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.

JeSSe wrote:

> He also quoted MacArthur [his claim, who knows if its accurate] that
> people are remembered more by their failures than successes - In his
> case, very accurate quote.

I} think the quote was, we are remembered by the rules we break, still
very accurate for this arrogant idiot

--
Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for
light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.

On Thu, 22 Jun 2023 14:32:32 -0400
JeSSe <zo@so.org> wrote:

> He admits he has had to break rules to build the sub that is
> currently lost at sea

Isn't that Musk's mantra - "Move fast and break things" ?

On Thu, 22 Jun 2023 14:35:22 -0400
JeSSe <zo@so.org> wrote:

> JeSSe wrote:
>
> > He also quoted MacArthur [his claim, who knows if its accurate]
> > that people are remembered more by their failures than successes -
> > In his case, very accurate quote.
>
> I} think the quote was, we are remembered by the rules we break,
> still very accurate for this arrogant idiot

And Boeing of course.

The Happy Hippy wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Jun 2023 14:35:22 -0400
> JeSSe <zo@so.org> wrote:
>
>> JeSSe wrote:
>>
>>> He also quoted MacArthur [his claim, who knows if its accurate]
>>> that people are remembered more by their failures than successes -
>>> In his case, very accurate quote.
>>
>> I} think the quote was, we are remembered by the rules we break,
>> still very accurate for this arrogant idiot
>
> And Boeing of course.
>
I see you are trying [unsuccessfully] to divert attention from your
drastic fuckup of claiming alleged random sounds of the ocean were solid
proof there was no catastrophic failure and the 4 victims were still alive.
First muslim wisecracks now Boeing, even some Soros mixed in ,, And I'm
supposed to be the troll yeah ok sure whatever you say.

--
Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for
light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.

On Thu, 22 Jun 2023 16:20:43 -0400
JeSSe <zo@so.org> wrote:

> The Happy Hippy wrote:
> > On Thu, 22 Jun 2023 14:35:22 -0400
> > JeSSe <zo@so.org> wrote:
> >
> >> JeSSe wrote:
> >>
> >>> He also quoted MacArthur [his claim, who knows if its accurate]
> >>> that people are remembered more by their failures than successes -
> >>> In his case, very accurate quote.
> >>
> >> I} think the quote was, we are remembered by the rules we break,
> >> still very accurate for this arrogant idiot
> >
> > And Boeing of course.
> >
> I see you are trying [unsuccessfully] to divert attention from your
> drastic fuckup of claiming alleged random sounds of the ocean were
> solid proof there was no catastrophic failure and the 4 victims were
> still alive.

As I said; "They'll be dead tomorrow and you will have got what you wanted, can indulge in all the "it's their own fault", "serves them right", and "got what they deserved" celebrations you want to".

You haven't disappointed.

I don't consider accepting the view of multiple marine experts that banging which was said to be consistent with 'proof of life' protocol was that, couldn't be anything else, as "fuckup".

Those experts also want to know, if it wasn't that, what was it, what could possibly have matched protocol signalling so exactly, so consistently, for so long, but wasn't ?

The chance of it being random banging, for three minutes and only three minutes, every half hour, for multiple days, is unbelievably low.

It's ridiculous to even describe two days of such pattern-consistent banging as "random".

If I made a "fuckup" it seems multiple marine experts made an even greater "fuckup".

There appears to be four plausible explanations -

1) Eminently qualified, recognised and accredited, marine experts are no such thing, are not even as expert in their field as you claim to be.
2) It was the 'proof of life' those experts considered it to be.

3) The USCG and/or others misreported what had been detected, or outright lied, misled experts into believing it was something it wasn't.

4) It was a third party interfering. Perhaps maliciously, deliberately, or through misguidedly trying to let the sub know that rescuers were there.

All four possibilities raise some serious and awkward questions, but you aren't interested in that. You are too busy jerking yourself into a stupor.

You are the one actively engaged in a campaign of distraction, diversion and deflection.

Re the "banging sounds" theory -- which some experts, and the non-expert
yours truly, doubted.

It's unclear where the sensors which picked up these sounds where; just
how strong could have the banging been? And the energy of a wave
decrease very rapidly with the distance. And if you have a super-sensitive
sensor which can capture something so weak, then it will be more sensitive
to noise, and will pick up a lot of crap as well. The implosion is a different
thing -- it's much more powerful. And why such long intervals, and the
lack of any more salient patterns (as Jesse correctly pointed out)?
Even a trivial "code" (bang, wait 10 secs, bang, wait 30 minutes, bang-
bang) would have been more indicative.

It was probably a combination of wishful thinking (very understandable in
this case), data errors, and perhaps most of all, what Richard Feynman
described as "the fragility of knowledge" -- i.e the total lack of
ability of most experts to understand what the hell is happening during
rare, catastrophic occurrences. See Chernobyl, Fukushima, MH-370 etc.

Pity about these guys, especially the kid. It's being reported he was
scared and didn't want to join, and only did so to please his father.

The Happy Hippy wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Jun 2023 16:20:43 -0400
> JeSSe <zo@so.org> wrote:
>
>> The Happy Hippy wrote:
>>> On Thu, 22 Jun 2023 14:35:22 -0400
>>> JeSSe <zo@so.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> JeSSe wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> He also quoted MacArthur [his claim, who knows if its accurate]
>>>>> that people are remembered more by their failures than successes -
>>>>> In his case, very accurate quote.
>>>>
>>>> I} think the quote was, we are remembered by the rules we break,
>>>> still very accurate for this arrogant idiot
>>>
>>> And Boeing of course.
>>>
>> I see you are trying [unsuccessfully] to divert attention from your
>> drastic fuckup of claiming alleged random sounds of the ocean were
>> solid proof there was no catastrophic failure and the 4 victims were
>> still alive.
>
> As I said; "They'll be dead tomorrow and you will have got what you wanted, can indulge in all the "it's their own fault", "serves them right", and "got what they deserved" celebrations you want to".
>
> You haven't disappointed.
>
> I don't consider accepting the view of multiple marine experts that banging which was said to be consistent with 'proof of life' protocol was that, couldn't be anything else, as "fuckup".
>
> Those experts also want to know, if it wasn't that, what was it, what could possibly have matched protocol signalling so exactly, so consistently, for so long, but wasn't ?

TWP made the banging sounds post right after it was reported, and you
chimed in almost immediately with your preposterous claim
that this proves they were still alive, and proves concern about design
flaws was just fear mongering - And all this well before any alleged
renowned experts had a chance anything to say about it, much less have
their comments published.

In fact, you posted no less than 6 times in that thread over the course
of 2 days, and NOT ONCE did you cite any "experts" agreeing with your
knee jerk conclusion.

On the other hand, I posted a link to a sonar expert who said the sounds
mean nothing, just like I had said [and also before any experts chimed
in], and on the same day as TWPs thread:
Sonar expert says underwater 'banging' heard by Coast Guard at sub
search site is 'debris falling from the decaying wreck' 6/21/2023, 11:02 PM

And as you have posted in another butthurt, mocking troll thread, actual
renowned deep sea expert Cameron thought exactly the same as me, the
banging sounds proved absolutely zilch, nadda - And he also agree with
what I said multiple times about the reason this joker refused to get
his contraption certified is because he knew it would fail.

Can you simply admit you were wrong, since it is so obviously and
drastically proven ? Coast Guards performance wasn't perfect, you ask me
this is their biggest fuckup, info like this should not even be released
until there is at least some bare form of confirmation [like the alleged
banging noises spelling HELP or SOS in tap code, for instance].
It just gave false hope to families, and ammo to agenda motivated trolls
like you - Little did you know the ammo were blanks.

--
Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for
light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.

Loose Cannon wrote:
> Re the "banging sounds" theory -- which some experts, and the non-expert
> yours truly, doubted.
>
> It's unclear where the sensors which picked up these sounds where; just
> how strong could have the banging been? And the energy of a wave
> decrease very rapidly with the distance. And if you have a super-sensitive
> sensor which can capture something so weak, then it will be more sensitive
> to noise, and will pick up a lot of crap as well. The implosion is a different
> thing -- it's much more powerful. And why such long intervals, and the
> lack of any more salient patterns (as Jesse correctly pointed out)?
> Even a trivial "code" (bang, wait 10 secs, bang, wait 30 minutes, bang-
> bang) would have been more indicative.
>
> It was probably a combination of wishful thinking (very understandable in
> this case), data errors, and perhaps most of all, what Richard Feynman
> described as "the fragility of knowledge" -- i.e the total lack of
> ability of most experts to understand what the hell is happening during
> rare, catastrophic occurrences. See Chernobyl, Fukushima, MH-370 etc.
>
> Pity about these guys, especially the kid. It's being reported he was
> scared and didn't want to join, and only did so to please his father.

Oh shit, you used Jesse & correctly in the same sentence, he'll never
forgive you for that, worse than sticking up for Baron Trump !

I think you have to have a cynical, suspicious, detached mind for things
like this, the white guys at the center of this effort probably felt
like deer in headlights and were desperate to signal a sign, any sign,
of hope.
Banging sounds in the ocean, while obviously potentially hopeful, don't
mean anything until confirmed to be made by humans, and the only good
way to quickly and convincingly confirm this is to tap out distress
words in code.
Rescuers know this, guys trapped under water with their lives on the
line know this, and it would certainly have been done if their vessel
was intact and they were alive. [We lost alot of guys at Pearl Harbor in
shallow water, tapping away detailed info like mad from overturned ships
but couldn't get to them in time] But alot of guys they did get to in
time and literally cut them out, which could not have been an easy task
through inches of steel.

Coast guard fucked up, simple as that. Sketchy, inconclusive info like
this should not have been released to the public, though sure they had
to follow up on it.
Don't know anything about hippys mythical protocol that he keeps
stammering about, they certainly taught nothing about that in the
military when I was in. Morse code and prisoner tap code are the
standards for rescuers and trapped victims alike. This Rush guy was a
USAF vet, he would have known to tap codes. Seems likely the very
experienced old French guy would have known as well ,, The billionaires,
not so much.

What could it have been then ? Hard to speculate without hearing them.
Could well have been a figment of someones imagination. Perhaps some
buoy with an anchor chain slapping to the rhythm of the sea, or
something slapping around on the Titanic itself, which obviously there
is no shortage of lose parts being whipped around every single day and
night there, must be quite an eerie acoustic symphony down there in fact.

--
Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for
light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.

In article <sxllM.44711$zcM5.27684@fx11.iad>, JeSSe <zo@so.org> wrote:

> Loose Cannon wrote:

>> Re the "banging sounds" theory -- which some experts, and the non-expert
>> yours truly, doubted.
>>
>> It's unclear where the sensors which picked up these sounds where; just
>> how strong could have the banging been? And the energy of a wave
>> decrease very rapidly with the distance. And if you have a super-sensitive
>> sensor which can capture something so weak, then it will be more sensitive
>> to noise, and will pick up a lot of crap as well. The implosion is a different
>> thing -- it's much more powerful. And why such long intervals, and the
>> lack of any more salient patterns (as Jesse correctly pointed out)?
>> Even a trivial "code" (bang, wait 10 secs, bang, wait 30 minutes, bang-
>> bang) would have been more indicative.
>>
>> It was probably a combination of wishful thinking (very understandable in
>> this case), data errors, and perhaps most of all, what Richard Feynman
>> described as "the fragility of knowledge" -- i.e the total lack of
>> ability of most experts to understand what the hell is happening during
>> rare, catastrophic occurrences. See Chernobyl, Fukushima, MH-370 etc.
>>
>> Pity about these guys, especially the kid. It's being reported he was
>> scared and didn't want to join, and only did so to please his father.

> Oh shit, you used Jesse & correctly in the same sentence, he'll never
> forgive you for that, worse than sticking up for Baron Trump !

LOL. Well, it's just something I'll have to live with, I guess... :)

> I think you have to have a cynical, suspicious, detached mind for things
> like this, the white guys at the center of this effort probably felt
> like deer in headlights and were desperate to signal a sign, any sign,
> of hope.

IMHO it's not just the obvious wishful thinking. Someone shouts "signs
of life!" -- what's the other guy going to do? Deny it, with the
(even 0.001) probability that the first guy is correct, and then
risk being accused "because of you, we didn't search for them"?

> Banging sounds in the ocean, while obviously potentially hopeful, don't
> mean anything until confirmed to be made by humans, and the only good
> way to quickly and convincingly confirm this is to tap out distress
> words in code.

Agreed -- and even a very simple code, not THE simplest one possible.
Anything that has any structure.

> Rescuers know this, guys trapped under water with their lives on the
> line know this, and it would certainly have been done if their vessel
> was intact and they were alive. [We lost alot of guys at Pearl Harbor in
> shallow water, tapping away detailed info like mad from overturned ships
> but couldn't get to them in time] But alot of guys they did get to in
> time and literally cut them out, which could not have been an easy task
> through inches of steel.
>
> Coast guard fucked up, simple as that. Sketchy, inconclusive info like
> this should not have been released to the public, though sure they had
> to follow up on it.
> Don't know anything about hippys mythical protocol that he keeps
> stammering about, they certainly taught nothing about that in the
> military when I was in. Morse code and prisoner tap code are the
> standards for rescuers and trapped victims alike. This Rush guy was a
> USAF vet, he would have known to tap codes. Seems likely the very
> experienced old French guy would have known as well ,, The billionaires,
> not so much.

I don't posses too much knowledge about such codes, but I definitely
would have tried something more complicated. Even the first digits
in the decimal expansion of Pi.

> What could it have been then ? Hard to speculate without hearing them.
> Could well have been a figment of someones imagination. Perhaps some
> buoy with an anchor chain slapping to the rhythm of the sea, or
> something slapping around on the Titanic itself, which obviously there
> is no shortage of lose parts being whipped around every single day and
> night there, must be quite an eerie acoustic symphony down there in fact.

Perhaps we will know one day. Right now the guy(s) who reported the
banging sounds are probably too embarrassed.

Have you seen the Chernobyl miniseries (by the way, it's wonderful)? How
experts totally fuck up, making huge mistakes in deciding what needs to
be done during a new type of emergency? Same thing here possibly,
exacerbated by psychology and time pressure.

During the Apollo 13 mishap, we were lucky to have some really smart,
really fast folks around. That's not always the case.

Hope you're doing OK, I glanced at some posts and IIRC you wrote that
your dog died, as I know that can be a painful experience.

You mentioned SCI, sick old Andrzej vanished for a few weeks, and the
traffic fell to basically zero. He's back now, very much the same,
but he's careful not to post any more of his pro-rape etc. crap. I
submitted a complaint both to his provider and to a child protection
body in the UK, have no idea if that's the reason. Anyway I'm back
replying to his spam, but 95% of my posts are now automated, makes
life easier.

On Fri, 23 Jun 2023 14:07:17 -0400
JeSSe <zo@so.org> wrote:

> Coast Guards performance wasn't perfect, you ask
> me this is their biggest fuckup, info like this should not even be
> released until there is at least some bare form of confirmation [like
> the alleged banging noises spelling HELP or SOS in tap code, for
> instance].

But that's what did happen. They detected banging which was consistent with the 'proof of life' protocol, your HELP or SOS, verified it wasn't just random noise, and released that information -

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/titanic-submersible-missing-searchers-heard-banging-1234774674/

<quotes>

A Canadian aircraft searching for the missing Titan submersible detected "banging" in 30-minute intervals coming from the area where the divers disappeared, according to internal email updates sent by the Department of Homeland Security's National Operations Center obtained by Rolling Stone.

"RCC Halifax launched a P8, Poseidon, which has underwater detection capabilities from the air," the DHS e-mails read. "The P8 deployed sonobuoys, which reported a contact in a position close to the distress position. The P8 heard banging sounds in the area every 30 minutes. Four hours later, additional sonar was deployed and banging was still heard."

An e-mail sent Tuesday afternoon from the president of the travel and research group the Explorers Club stated, "It is being reported that at 2 a.m. local time on site that sonar detected potential 'tapping sounds' at the location, implying crew may be alive and signaling."

On Tuesday evening, an e-mail update sent to DHS leadership and obtained by Rolling Stone stated that additional "acoustic feedback was heard and will assist in vectoring surface assets and also indicating continued hope of survivors."

</quotes>

You can keep saying it was just random noise but it was reported to be more than that - "banging" in 30-minute intervals. That was still heard four hours later, and into the evening.

It may not be the signalling protocol you think it should be but it was clear to the experts it was a 'proof of life' signal complying with what would be expected as much as your tap code HELP or SOS would be.

You are the one saying if it quacks like a duck, waddles like a duck, has been confirmed to quack like a duck and waddle like a duck, over a prolonged period of time, it isn't, it is bullshit to think it's a duck, to claim it's a duck.

And, yes, there is a problem. In reconciling how there could have been 'proof of life' signalling after the sub had been lost and everyone was dead, when the possibility of that signal being generated exactly as expected is so low as to be considered impossible.

If it wasn't the sub, wasn't random noise, then where did it come from ?

On Fri, 23 Jun 2023 14:30:48 -0400
JeSSe <zo@so.org> wrote:

> Don't know anything about hippys mythical protocol that he keeps
> stammering about, they certainly taught nothing about that in the
> military when I was in.

Probably because you weren't a submariner or diver. As to being a "mythical protocol" here's a Daily Mail report you will presumably believe, and plenty more sources saying the exact same if you won't. -

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12218631/First-picture-missing-Titanic-sub-search-site-oxygen-dwindles-24-hours.html

<quotes>

Submarine search and rescue expert Frank Owen told the BBC his hopes for a recovery increased 'by some magnitude' when he heard the noises had been detected.

'There's a couple of reasons for that. Firstly, on board this craft is a retired French Navy diver. He would know the protocol for trying to alert searching forces... on the hour and the half hour you bang like hell for three minutes.

</quotes>

On Fri, 23 Jun 2023 21:13:18 +0100
The Happy Hippy <the.happy.hippy.nntp@ntlworld.invalid> pointed to:

> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12218631/First-picture-missing-Titanic-sub-search-site-oxygen-dwindles-24-hours.html
:

> He would know the protocol for trying
> to alert searching forces... on the hour and the half hour you bang
> like hell for three minutes.

And the reason they don't use tap codes or morse code is because they are miles down and the ocean is full of random noises.

There would be no guarantee what was tapped out would be received correctly, and continuously sending makes it harder to discriminate the signal from noise.

Plus that would use up the oxygen supply quicker than the protocol they do use, which would be counter-productive to survival.

[...]

> 'There's a couple of reasons for that. Firstly, on board this craft is a retired French Navy diver. He would know
> the protocol for trying to alert searching forces... on the hour and the half hour you bang like hell for three
> minutes.

As I said, bang-bang, wait, bang-bang. Not what they claimed they were hearing.

The Happy Hippy wrote:

>
> you bang like hell for three minutes.

Oops, but wasn't that my "fatal mistake" according to you - Not supposed
to bang like hell, you sit there and count your breaths !

Banging anything besides centuries established distress codes doesn't do
much good, as we have literally just seen, people debate whether or not
the banging sound came from a human. If you bang out HELP or even SOS,
there is no debate, simple really and very common sense when your ass is
on the line and minutes count.
As stated, even PORT SIDE TITANIC 2000 YARDS could easily be banged out
in half a minute, which would not only alert rescuers beyond a doubt
that you are alive, but give your near exact location ,, But you, you
would be monitoring your watch, patiently waiting for the half hour
protocol to bang away, that is plain dumb - And if me and you were
trapped on board, I'd have to kill you if you insisted on waiting.

I haven't seen or heard a timeline breakdown of every sound allegedly
heard, have you ? Could it have been mating dolphins ? They got some
rhythm going on from what I have heard.

* I went through multiple months long escape and evasion/survival
courses both tropical and cold weather, the only forms of improvised
comms taught there were morse and tap, a submariners course I cannot
speak of.

--
Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for
light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.

The Happy Hippy wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Jun 2023 21:13:18 +0100
> The Happy Hippy <the.happy.hippy.nntp@ntlworld.invalid> pointed to:
>
>> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12218631/First-picture-missing-Titanic-sub-search-site-oxygen-dwindles-24-hours.html
> :
>
>> He would know the protocol for trying
>> to alert searching forces... on the hour and the half hour you bang
>> like hell for three minutes.
>
> And the reason they don't use tap codes or morse code is because they are miles down and the ocean is full of random noises.
>
> There would be no guarantee what was tapped out would be received correctly, and continuously sending makes it harder to discriminate the signal from noise.
>
> Plus that would use up the oxygen supply quicker than the protocol they do use, which would be counter-productive to survival.
>
Obviously, trapped miles under the waves, there is no guarantee of
anything at all. Waiting half an hour decreases the odds of being heard
at all [obviously] And no, we are not banging away, flailing and
screaming like madmen, codes are organized and repeatable, the prime
signs they came from a human hand.

I've already disputed that simply moving your wrist does not require
more oxygen than lying still and fighting panic - Opposite may be
argued, that keeping yourself occupied with what, after all, is your
only hope of survival will have a relative calming effect, and thus
decrease your oxygen intake.

--
Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for
light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.

The Happy Hippy wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Jun 2023 14:07:17 -0400
> JeSSe <zo@so.org> wrote:
>
>> Coast Guards performance wasn't perfect, you ask
>> me this is their biggest fuckup, info like this should not even be
>> released until there is at least some bare form of confirmation [like
>> the alleged banging noises spelling HELP or SOS in tap code, for
>> instance].
>
> But that's what did happen. They detected banging which was consistent with the 'proof of life' protocol, your HELP or SOS, verified it wasn't just random noise, and released that information -
>
> https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/titanic-submersible-missing-searchers-heard-banging-1234774674/
>
> <quotes>
>
> A Canadian aircraft searching for the missing Titan submersible detected "banging" in 30-minute intervals coming from the area where the divers disappeared, according to internal email updates sent by the Department of Homeland Security's National Operations Center obtained by Rolling Stone.
>
> "RCC Halifax launched a P8, Poseidon, which has underwater detection capabilities from the air," the DHS e-mails read. "The P8 deployed sonobuoys, which reported a contact in a position close to the distress position. The P8 heard banging sounds in the area every 30 minutes. Four hours later, additional sonar was deployed and banging was still heard."
>
> An e-mail sent Tuesday afternoon from the president of the travel and research group the Explorers Club stated, "It is being reported that at 2 a.m. local time on site that sonar detected potential 'tapping sounds' at the location, implying crew may be alive and signaling."
>
> On Tuesday evening, an e-mail update sent to DHS leadership and obtained by Rolling Stone stated that additional "acoustic feedback was heard and will assist in vectoring surface assets and also indicating continued hope of survivors."
>
> </quotes>
>
> You can keep saying it was just random noise but it was reported to be more than that - "banging" in 30-minute intervals. That was still heard four hours later, and into the evening.
>
> It may not be the signalling protocol you think it should be but it was clear to the experts it was a 'proof of life' signal complying with what would be expected as much as your tap code HELP or SOS would be.
>
> You are the one saying if it quacks like a duck, waddles like a duck, has been confirmed to quack like a duck and waddle like a duck, over a prolonged period of time, it isn't, it is bullshit to think it's a duck, to claim it's a duck.
>
> And, yes, there is a problem. In reconciling how there could have been 'proof of life' signalling after the sub had been lost and everyone was dead, when the possibility of that signal being generated exactly as expected is so low as to be considered impossible.
>
> If it wasn't the sub, wasn't random noise, then where did it come from ?
>

Main problem here I think is you are just googling as you go, I have not
googled once and am talking from a common sense and experience standpoint.

I don't know hippy, if they release more detailed timeline breakdowns
and audio clips, perhaps I'll come to a different determination, or at
least admit the sounds seemed more than random and warranted hope.
I doubt it, since my gut feeling before all the experts chimed in that
the banging was proof of nothing days before it was known they were dead
turned out to be correct, and your feeling that it was proof they were
alive was incorrect.

[I bet they could do some sonar readings right now or next week, and get
the same sort of sounds]

In that regards, I think what I speculated earlier, that perhaps the
sounds were caused by a lose buoy anchor chain or flailing debris from
Titanic itself, were the cause.
After all, waves and currents have a rhythm, right ? And everything lose
that they interact with picks up the same rhythm.

--
Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for
light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.

On Fri, 23 Jun 2023 17:43:15 -0400
JeSSe <zo@so.org> wrote:

> Banging anything besides centuries established distress codes doesn't
> do much good

It is established procedure. Five minutes of sustained banging fits perfectly with NATO DISSUB procedures where SAR teams fall silent for 5 minutes on the hour and half hour in the hope of hearing the faintest indication of someone banging like hell to be heard.

But there's no point in arguing because you live in your own reality, not the real one.

1) The first thing an engineer would do is keep measuring in the
same region, and see if these "banging sounds" persist.

2) Going out on a limb here, but see, e.g

"Another interesting feature is the occurrence of very long period (VLP)
seismic pulses synchronized with the tremor amplitude modulation. Both
the tremor amplitude modulation and the VLP pulses have fairly regular
intervals of 46–50 min[!], suggesting a spatially fixed, non-destructive
repetitive source."

On Fri, 23 Jun 2023 17:50:16 -0400
JeSSe <zo@so.org> wrote:

> Waiting half an hour decreases the odds of being
> heard at all [obviously]

No it doesn't. That's just more of you made up shit.

The half hour wait is to conform with NATO and other SAR procedures where they stop and listen on the hour and half hour.

For 83% of the time you would be signalling it would be wasted effort, pointlessly expended energy, wasted oxygen, when SAR are less likely to hear any signal.

But sure, you know better than those who have invested their lives in diving and search and rescue, have figured out what the protocol should be, while you have done nothing but bang rocks together as a construction monkey since you were 13.

On Fri, 23 Jun 2023 18:02:33 -0400
JeSSe <zo@so.org> wrote:

> The Happy Hippy wrote:
> > On Fri, 23 Jun 2023 14:07:17 -0400
> > JeSSe <zo@so.org> wrote:
> >
> >> Coast Guards performance wasn't perfect, you ask
> >> me this is their biggest fuckup, info like this should not even be
> >> released until there is at least some bare form of confirmation
> >> [like the alleged banging noises spelling HELP or SOS in tap code,
> >> for instance].
> >
> > But that's what did happen. They detected banging which was
> > consistent with the 'proof of life' protocol, your HELP or SOS,
> > verified it wasn't just random noise, and released that information
> > -
> >
> > https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/titanic-submersible-missing-searchers-heard-banging-1234774674/
> >
> > <quotes>
> >
> > A Canadian aircraft searching for the missing Titan submersible
> > detected "banging" in 30-minute intervals coming from the area
> > where the divers disappeared, according to internal email updates
> > sent by the Department of Homeland Security's National Operations
> > Center obtained by Rolling Stone.
> >
> > "RCC Halifax launched a P8, Poseidon, which has underwater
> > detection capabilities from the air," the DHS e-mails read. "The P8
> > deployed sonobuoys, which reported a contact in a position close to
> > the distress position. The P8 heard banging sounds in the area
> > every 30 minutes. Four hours later, additional sonar was deployed
> > and banging was still heard."
> >
> > An e-mail sent Tuesday afternoon from the president of the travel
> > and research group the Explorers Club stated, "It is being reported
> > that at 2 a.m. local time on site that sonar detected potential
> > 'tapping sounds' at the location, implying crew may be alive and
> > signaling."
> >
> > On Tuesday evening, an e-mail update sent to DHS leadership and
> > obtained by Rolling Stone stated that additional "acoustic feedback
> > was heard and will assist in vectoring surface assets and also
> > indicating continued hope of survivors."
> >
> > </quotes>
> >
> > You can keep saying it was just random noise but it was reported to
> > be more than that - "banging" in 30-minute intervals. That was
> > still heard four hours later, and into the evening.
> >
> > It may not be the signalling protocol you think it should be but it
> > was clear to the experts it was a 'proof of life' signal complying
> > with what would be expected as much as your tap code HELP or SOS
> > would be.
> >
> > You are the one saying if it quacks like a duck, waddles like a
> > duck, has been confirmed to quack like a duck and waddle like a
> > duck, over a prolonged period of time, it isn't, it is bullshit to
> > think it's a duck, to claim it's a duck.
> >
> > And, yes, there is a problem. In reconciling how there could have
> > been 'proof of life' signalling after the sub had been lost and
> > everyone was dead, when the possibility of that signal being
> > generated exactly as expected is so low as to be considered
> > impossible.
> >
> > If it wasn't the sub, wasn't random noise, then where did it come
> > from ?
>
> Main problem here I think is you are just googling as you go, I have
> not googled once and am talking from a common sense and experience
> standpoint.

Maybe you should Google because you are simply talking out your arse. Your 'common sense' is just made up shit, and your 'experience standpoint' is non-existent.

Yes, I have Googled, because it's evidence of what I claim. You bitch if I don't provide links, and you aren't going to accept my posting quotes from people I have spoken to elsewhere who have far greater relevant experience than you do.

Talking to you is like talking to a retarded child compared to the debates and discussions going on elsewhere.

On Sat, 24 Jun 2023 00:05:12 +0100
The Happy Hippy <the.happy.hippy.nntp@ntlworld.invalid> wrote:

> But sure, you know better than those who have invested their lives in
> diving and search and rescue, have figured out what the protocol
> should be, while you have done nothing but bang rocks together as a
> construction monkey since you were 13.

I will acknowledge that you possibly spent some time as cannon fodder.

The Happy Hippy wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Jun 2023 17:50:16 -0400
> JeSSe <zo@so.org> wrote:
>
>> Waiting half an hour decreases the odds of being
>> heard at all [obviously]
>
> No it doesn't. That's just more of you made up shit.
>
> The half hour wait is to conform with NATO and other SAR procedures where they stop and listen on the hour and half hour.
>
> For 83% of the time you would be signalling it would be wasted effort, pointlessly expended energy, wasted oxygen, when SAR are less likely to hear any signal.
>
> But sure, you know better than those who have invested their lives in diving and search and rescue, have figured out what the protocol should be, while you have done nothing but bang rocks together as a construction monkey since you were 13.
>
Cool story bro, but you google way too much, and have 0 real world
experience

--
Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for
light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.

The Happy Hippy wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Jun 2023 17:43:15 -0400
> JeSSe <zo@so.org> wrote:
>
>> Banging anything besides centuries established distress codes doesn't
>> do much good
>
> Five minutes of sustained banging

OMG, don't you realize how much oxygen 5 minutes of sustained banging
would consume ??

Problem is, you don't remember which googled tangent you were on from
one post to the next, and cannot reconcile that I WAS RIGHT[again] AND
YOU WERE WRONG[again] - Snipping doesn't suspend reality.

--
Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for
light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.

The Happy Hippy wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Jun 2023 18:02:33 -0400
> JeSSe <zo@so.org> wrote:
>
>> The Happy Hippy wrote:
>>> On Fri, 23 Jun 2023 14:07:17 -0400
>>> JeSSe <zo@so.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Coast Guards performance wasn't perfect, you ask
>>>> me this is their biggest fuckup, info like this should not even be
>>>> released until there is at least some bare form of confirmation
>>>> [like the alleged banging noises spelling HELP or SOS in tap code,
>>>> for instance].
>>>
>>> But that's what did happen. They detected banging which was
>>> consistent with the 'proof of life' protocol, your HELP or SOS,
>>> verified it wasn't just random noise, and released that information
>>> -
>>>
>>> https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/titanic-submersible-missing-searchers-heard-banging-1234774674/
>>>
>>> <quotes>
>>>
>>> A Canadian aircraft searching for the missing Titan submersible
>>> detected "banging" in 30-minute intervals coming from the area
>>> where the divers disappeared, according to internal email updates
>>> sent by the Department of Homeland Security's National Operations
>>> Center obtained by Rolling Stone.
>>>
>>> "RCC Halifax launched a P8, Poseidon, which has underwater
>>> detection capabilities from the air," the DHS e-mails read. "The P8
>>> deployed sonobuoys, which reported a contact in a position close to
>>> the distress position. The P8 heard banging sounds in the area
>>> every 30 minutes. Four hours later, additional sonar was deployed
>>> and banging was still heard."
>>>
>>> An e-mail sent Tuesday afternoon from the president of the travel
>>> and research group the Explorers Club stated, "It is being reported
>>> that at 2 a.m. local time on site that sonar detected potential
>>> 'tapping sounds' at the location, implying crew may be alive and
>>> signaling."
>>>
>>> On Tuesday evening, an e-mail update sent to DHS leadership and
>>> obtained by Rolling Stone stated that additional "acoustic feedback
>>> was heard and will assist in vectoring surface assets and also
>>> indicating continued hope of survivors."
>>>
>>> </quotes>
>>>
>>> You can keep saying it was just random noise but it was reported to
>>> be more than that - "banging" in 30-minute intervals. That was
>>> still heard four hours later, and into the evening.
>>>
>>> It may not be the signalling protocol you think it should be but it
>>> was clear to the experts it was a 'proof of life' signal complying
>>> with what would be expected as much as your tap code HELP or SOS
>>> would be.
>>>
>>> You are the one saying if it quacks like a duck, waddles like a
>>> duck, has been confirmed to quack like a duck and waddle like a
>>> duck, over a prolonged period of time, it isn't, it is bullshit to
>>> think it's a duck, to claim it's a duck.
>>>
>>> And, yes, there is a problem. In reconciling how there could have
>>> been 'proof of life' signalling after the sub had been lost and
>>> everyone was dead, when the possibility of that signal being
>>> generated exactly as expected is so low as to be considered
>>> impossible.
>>>
>>> If it wasn't the sub, wasn't random noise, then where did it come
>>> from ?
>>
>> Main problem here I think is you are just googling as you go, I have
>> not googled once and am talking from a common sense and experience
>> standpoint.
>

> Yes, I have Googled

Yeah no shit, so I WAS RIGHT [again]
Hippy the Googler, knows all there is to know about everything until the
next time you google, then you deny your previous tangent and go off on
a new one, pathetic and very JOO like.

You must have missed it and just snipped it away [as usual], I actually
tried talking to you like an adult and you just keep going on hissy fits
because YOU WERE WRONG and can't admit it.

Reported alleged banging noises WERE NOT from the missing crew, because
we now know that they were dead ,, But you said "at least it means they
were still alive" When it meant NOTHING OF THE SORT, and I TOLD YOU SO,
well before any "expert" chimed in.

You are a gullible dumb as a dish of butter bitch spitting out the
whirlwind of wingnut bullshit that I was right about too, I knew you
would do this because you have done it before WHEN PROVEN WRONG

--
Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for
light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.