I see from reports in the Times today that we've at last woken up to the
danger to internet cables, volts interconnects, and any undersea pipelines,
posed by Putin. Seems that he is now the chief suspect in the Nordstream
business and various of his naval vessels have been observed doing cable
mapping.

--
"People don't buy Microsoft for quality, they buy it for compatibility with what Bob in accounting bought last year. Trace it back - they buy Microsoft because the IBM Selectric didn't suck much" - P Seebach, afc

On 4 May 2023 15:01:07 GMT, Tim Streater <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:

>I see from reports in the Times today that we've at last woken up to the
>danger to internet cables, volts interconnects, and any undersea pipelines,
>posed by Putin. Seems that he is now the chief suspect in the Nordstream
>business and various of his naval vessels have been observed doing cable
>mapping.

Putin is totally devious and untrustworthy.

I wouldn't be surprised if the recent so-called drone attack on the
Kremlin wasn't a Russian fabrication. Has Ukraine got drones with that
sort of range? I don't know, but it would be very simple for the
Russians to fly a drone fitted with a small explosive charge over the
Kremlin and detonate it locally, making sure it was filmed.

--
Chris

On 4.5.23 6:27 pm, Chris Hogg wrote:
> On 4 May 2023 15:01:07 GMT, Tim Streater <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
>
>>I see from reports in the Times today that we've at last woken up to the
>>danger to internet cables, volts interconnects, and any undersea pipelines,
>>posed by Putin. Seems that he is now the chief suspect in the Nordstream
>>business and various of his naval vessels have been observed doing cable
>>mapping.
>
> Putin is totally devious and untrustworthy.
>
> I wouldn't be surprised if the recent so-called drone attack on the
> Kremlin wasn't a Russian fabrication. Has Ukraine got drones with that
> sort of range? I don't know, but it would be very simple for the
> Russians to fly a drone fitted with a small explosive charge over the
> Kremlin and detonate it locally, making sure it was filmed.
>

It can see no possibility that it was anything else but a Putin put-up
job. The explosion was about the size of a Bonfire Night Firework and
appeared, from the pictures, to do no damage whatever. As you remark -
how odd that someone should have a fairly high quality camera (it was
not a phone) lined up on it at the exact moment. I've never seen a
clearer fake.

--
Bob,
Tetbury, Gloucestershire, UK

Inside every old man is a young man wondering what the hell happened.

On 04/05/2023 18:27, Chris Hogg wrote:
> On 4 May 2023 15:01:07 GMT, Tim Streater <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
>
>> I see from reports in the Times today that we've at last woken up to the
>> danger to internet cables, volts interconnects, and any undersea pipelines,
>> posed by Putin. Seems that he is now the chief suspect in the Nordstream
>> business and various of his naval vessels have been observed doing cable
>> mapping.
>
> Putin is totally devious and untrustworthy.
>
> I wouldn't be surprised if the recent so-called drone attack on the
> Kremlin wasn't a Russian fabrication. Has Ukraine got drones with that
> sort of range? I don't know, but it would be very simple for the
> Russians to fly a drone fitted with a small explosive charge over the
> Kremlin and detonate it locally, making sure it was filmed.
>
Echos of the Reichstag fire?

On Fri, 05 May 2023 01:01:07 +1000, Tim Streater <tim@streater.me.uk>
wrote:

> I see from reports in the Times today that we've at last woken up to the
> danger to internet cables, volts interconnects, and any undersea
> pipelines,
> posed by Putin. Seems that he is now the chief suspect in the Nordstream
> business

Can't see why he would have blown it up.

> and various of his naval vessels have been observed doing cable
> mapping.

Unlikely he would be doing that so obviously.

Bob Henson wrote:

> It can see no possibility that it was anything else but a Putin put-up
> job. The explosion was about the size of a Bonfire Night Firework and
> appeared, from the pictures, to do no damage whatever. As you remark -
> how odd that someone should have a fairly high quality camera (it was
> not a phone) lined up on it at the exact moment.

There were two strikes, after the first one some workmen were climbing
onto the roof when the second one hit, and presumably the filming
started after the first hit ...

> I've never seen a clearer fake.

I still suspect they were russian put-up jobs

<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGPsCTnKfrg>

On 04/05/2023 18:43, Bob Henson wrote:
> On 4.5.23 6:27 pm, Chris Hogg wrote:
>> On 4 May 2023 15:01:07 GMT, Tim Streater <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> I see from reports in the Times today that we've at last woken up to the
>>> danger to internet cables, volts interconnects, and any undersea
>>> pipelines,
>>> posed by Putin. Seems that he is now the chief suspect in the Nordstream
>>> business and various of his naval vessels have been observed doing cable
>>> mapping.
>>
>> Putin is totally devious and untrustworthy.
>>
>> I wouldn't be surprised if the recent so-called drone attack on the
>> Kremlin wasn't a Russian fabrication. Has Ukraine got drones with that
>> sort of range? I don't know, but it would be very simple for the
>> Russians to fly a drone fitted with a small explosive charge over the
>> Kremlin and detonate it locally, making sure it was filmed.
>>
>
> It can see no possibility that it was anything else but a Putin put-up
> job. The explosion was about the size of a Bonfire Night Firework and
> appeared, from the pictures, to do no damage whatever. As you remark -
> how odd that someone should have a fairly high quality camera (it was
> not a phone) lined up on it at the exact moment.

I would consider it more than likely that The Kremlin is under constant
video surveillance from multiple high quality CCTV cameras.

I've never seen a
> clearer fake.
>

--
Colin Bignell

On 04/05/2023 16:01, Tim Streater wrote:
> I see from reports in the Times today that we've at last woken up to the
> danger to internet cables, volts interconnects, and any undersea pipelines,
> posed by Putin. Seems that he is now the chief suspect in the Nordstream
> business and various of his naval vessels have been observed doing cable
> mapping.

I don't believe a lot of the claims made. In much the same way the
Lockerbie bomb was blamed on Iran until they made some deal with the US.

Furthermore Abdelbaset al-Megrahi was released only if he retreated his
appeal and didn't publish the new evidence.

The smart thinking surrounding Nordstream implies it was Ukrainian forces.

The other thought is that it was US forces following Joe Biden's threat
the pipeline would be shut down:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11727691/U-S-carried-Nord-Stream-bomb-attack-secret-plan-led-Joe-Biden-report-claims.html

Anyway, what would be the Russian advantage be if the pipeline was
shutdown? If there was evidence of Russian involvement more information
would have been published, including names.

Tim Streater <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
> I see from reports in the Times today that we've at last woken up to the
> danger to internet cables, volts interconnects, and any undersea pipelines,
> posed by Putin. Seems that he is now the chief suspect in the Nordstream
> business and various of his naval vessels have been observed doing cable
> mapping.
>

I don’t doubt Putin is a serious threat to the West but we face a more
immediate threat from his useful idiots / supports in the Unions / ER /
JSO/ etc.

On 04 May 2023 at 21:57:41 BST, "Fredxx" <fredxx@spam.uk> wrote:

> Anyway, what would be the Russian advantage be if the pipeline was
> shutdown? If there was evidence of Russian involvement more information
> would have been published, including names.

The advantage to the Russians is that since they own it, no one could complain
if they were actually fingered for the job. So it made a perfect place to
practice and perfect their techniques for this sort of underwater sabotage.

As the Times put it, if they do in one of our on-shore power stations with a
missile, that's a clear act of war. If they blow up the volts interconnectors
they can deny it was them. I didn't say it had been proved that the Nordstream
thing *was* done by the Russians, but that's another thing they were testing:
could they blow it up and get away with it? So far they have, if you believe
the reports.

--
First, find out who are the people you can not criticise. They are your oppressors. - George Orwell

On 04 May 2023 at 21:57:41 BST, "Fredxx" <fredxx@spam.uk> wrote:

> The smart thinking surrounding Nordstream implies it was Ukrainian forces.

What, the Ukranian navy you mean? Sent a stealth ship from Odessa across the
Black Sea, past Istanbul, out to the Med via the Dardanelles, across the Med,
past Gibraltar, up past Portugal, Spain, France to the North Sea, round
Denmark and finally into the Baltic to do the dirty? And nobody noticed? Wow,
that's *some* stealth ship!

Hint: the Danes and others report that the ships behaving suspiciously around
the Nordstream area were Russian.

--
When it becomes serious, you have to lie.

Jean-Claude Juncker, Reuters 31st May 2013.

On 04/05/2023 22:15, Tim Streater wrote:
> On 04 May 2023 at 21:57:41 BST, "Fredxx" <fredxx@spam.uk> wrote:
>
>> The smart thinking surrounding Nordstream implies it was Ukrainian forces.
>
> What, the Ukranian navy you mean? Sent a stealth ship from Odessa across the
> Black Sea, past Istanbul, out to the Med via the Dardanelles, across the Med,
> past Gibraltar, up past Portugal, Spain, France to the North Sea, round
> Denmark and finally into the Baltic to do the dirty? And nobody noticed? Wow,
> that's *some* stealth ship!

Oh dear. Any argument has quickly ventured into the ridiculous category.

> Hint: the Danes and others report that the ships behaving suspiciously around
> the Nordstream area were Russian.

There were "dark boats" in that area that had their transponders turned
off that were conveniently chartered by unknown players.

Either way, whoever did it was far smarter that anyone suggesting the
attackers would sail a boat from Odessa to do their dirty work in the
Baltic.

On Fri, 05 May 2023 07:33:04 +1000, Fredxx <fredxx@spam.uk> wrote:

> On 04/05/2023 22:15, Tim Streater wrote:
>> On 04 May 2023 at 21:57:41 BST, "Fredxx" <fredxx@spam.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> The smart thinking surrounding Nordstream implies it was Ukrainian
>>> forces.
>> What, the Ukranian navy you mean? Sent a stealth ship from Odessa
>> across the
>> Black Sea, past Istanbul, out to the Med via the Dardanelles, across
>> the Med,
>> past Gibraltar, up past Portugal, Spain, France to the North Sea, round
>> Denmark and finally into the Baltic to do the dirty? And nobody
>> noticed? Wow,
>> that's *some* stealth ship!
>
> Oh dear. Any argument has quickly ventured into the ridiculous category.
>
>> Hint: the Danes and others report that the ships behaving suspiciously
>> around
>> the Nordstream area were Russian.
>
> There were "dark boats" in that area that had their transponders turned
> off that were conveniently chartered by unknown players.

IMO it is most likely the russians are looking for evidence of who blew it
up.

> Either way, whoever did it was far smarter that anyone suggesting the
> attackers would sail a boat from Odessa to do their dirty work in the
> Baltic.

On 04/05/2023 22:00, Brian wrote:
> Tim Streater <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
>> I see from reports in the Times today that we've at last woken up to the
>> danger to internet cables, volts interconnects, and any undersea pipelines,
>> posed by Putin. Seems that he is now the chief suspect in the Nordstream
>> business and various of his naval vessels have been observed doing cable
>> mapping.
>>
>
> I don’t doubt Putin is a serious threat to the West but we face a more
> immediate threat from his useful idiots / supports in the Unions / ER /
> JSO/ etc.
>
And the remoaner and EU movement

--
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign,
that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."

Jonathan Swift.

On Thursday, 4 May 2023 at 23:47:03 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
> On Fri, 05 May 2023 07:33:04 +1000, Fredxx <fre...@spam.uk> wrote:
>
> > On 04/05/2023 22:15, Tim Streater wrote:
> >> On 04 May 2023 at 21:57:41 BST, "Fredxx" <fre...@spam.uk> wrote:
> >>
> >>> The smart thinking surrounding Nordstream implies it was Ukrainian
> >>> forces.
> >> What, the Ukranian navy you mean? Sent a stealth ship from Odessa
> >> across the
> >> Black Sea, past Istanbul, out to the Med via the Dardanelles, across
> >> the Med,
> >> past Gibraltar, up past Portugal, Spain, France to the North Sea, round
> >> Denmark and finally into the Baltic to do the dirty? And nobody
> >> noticed? Wow,
> >> that's *some* stealth ship!
> >
> > Oh dear. Any argument has quickly ventured into the ridiculous category.
> >
> >> Hint: the Danes and others report that the ships behaving suspiciously
> >> around
> >> the Nordstream area were Russian.
> >
> > There were "dark boats" in that area that had their transponders turned
> > off that were conveniently chartered by unknown players.
> IMO it is most likely the russians are looking for evidence of who blew it
> up.

That was very prescient of them to be looking for such evidence before the event!
John
> > Either way, whoever did it was far smarter that anyone suggesting the
> > attackers would sail a boat from Odessa to do their dirty work in the
> > Baltic.

On Fri, 05 May 2023 21:37:24 +1000, John Walliker <jrwalliker@gmail.com>
wrote:

> On Thursday, 4 May 2023 at 23:47:03 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
>> On Fri, 05 May 2023 07:33:04 +1000, Fredxx <fre...@spam.uk> wrote:
>>
>> > On 04/05/2023 22:15, Tim Streater wrote:
>> >> On 04 May 2023 at 21:57:41 BST, "Fredxx" <fre...@spam.uk> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> The smart thinking surrounding Nordstream implies it was Ukrainian
>> >>> forces.
>> >> What, the Ukranian navy you mean? Sent a stealth ship from Odessa
>> >> across the
>> >> Black Sea, past Istanbul, out to the Med via the Dardanelles, across
>> >> the Med,
>> >> past Gibraltar, up past Portugal, Spain, France to the North Sea,
>> round
>> >> Denmark and finally into the Baltic to do the dirty? And nobody
>> >> noticed? Wow,
>> >> that's *some* stealth ship!
>> >
>> > Oh dear. Any argument has quickly ventured into the ridiculous
>> category.
>> >
>> >> Hint: the Danes and others report that the ships behaving
>> suspiciously
>> >> around
>> >> the Nordstream area were Russian.
>> >
>> > There were "dark boats" in that area that had their transponders
>> turned
>> > off that were conveniently chartered by unknown players.
>> IMO it is most likely the russians are looking for evidence of who blew
>> it
>> up.
>
> That was very prescient of them to be looking for such evidence before
> the event!

I thought someone was claiming that the russian boats
were doing that NOW, but since so much has been snipped
its hard to check that and I can't be bothered going back
over the entire thread.

>> > Either way, whoever did it was far smarter that anyone suggesting the
>> > attackers would sail a boat from Odessa to do their dirty work in the
>> > Baltic.