By holding up the governments efforts to send immigrants to Rwanda are
the House of Lords cooking their own goose?

--
Michael Chare

On 11/07/2023 in message <u8kjot$319mv$1@dont-email.me> Michael Chare wrote:

>By holding up the governments efforts to send immigrants to Rwanda are the
>House of Lords cooking their own goose?

They need reform and there are far too many of them.

We should cut their numbers to 200 and appoint them on the basis of pure
proportional representation so they represent the views of the whole nation.

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
All things being equal, fat people use more soap

On Tue, 11 Jul 2023 23:06:19 +0100, Michael Chare wrote:

> By holding up the governments efforts to send immigrants to Rwanda are
> the House of Lords cooking their own goose?

Was it a manifesto pledge ? If not, fair game for the Lords.

In message <u8li8l$2f8s1$10@dont-email.me>, Jethro_uk
<jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> writes
>On Tue, 11 Jul 2023 23:06:19 +0100, Michael Chare wrote:
>
>> By holding up the governments efforts to send immigrants to Rwanda are
>> the House of Lords cooking their own goose?
>
>Was it a manifesto pledge ? If not, fair game for the Lords.

It's one of Rishi's five promises / key targets.
--
Ian
Aims and ambitions are neither attainments nor achievements

On 11/07/2023 23:06, Michael Chare wrote:
> By holding up the governments efforts to send immigrants to Rwanda are
> the House of Lords cooking their own goose?
>
One can only hope so.
Bunch of Blair's Barons, every one.

--
“But what a weak barrier is truth when it stands in the way of an
hypothesis!”

Mary Wollstonecraft

I would not know, but I'd suggest that any Government who thinks it is a
safe haven for those trying to get away from persecution are either
completely bonkers or deliberately doing it against human rights laws.
Brian

--

--:
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Michael Chare" <mUNDERSCOREnews@chareDOTorg.uk> wrote in message
news:u8kjot$319mv$1@dont-email.me...
> By holding up the governments efforts to send immigrants to Rwanda are the
> House of Lords cooking their own goose?
>
> --
> Michael Chare

On 11 Jul 2023 23:57:26 GMT
"Jeff Gaines" <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:

> On 11/07/2023 in message <u8kjot$319mv$1@dont-email.me> Michael Chare
> wrote:
>
> >By holding up the governments efforts to send immigrants to Rwanda
> >are the House of Lords cooking their own goose?
>
> They need reform and there are far too many of them.
>
> We should cut their numbers to 200 and appoint them on the basis of
> pure proportional representation so they represent the views of the
> whole nation.
>

A second, revising layer of government will some of the time need to
oppose the executive (as MPs are supposed to do), but a group elected
on a party political basis will simply reflect the composition of the
Commons, and will follow the party line.

The electorate has demonstrated over at least a century that it will
only vote for political parties, not for individuals (unless they are
'celebrities').

--
Joe

On Wed, 12 Jul 2023 08:37:03 +0100, Brian Gaff wrote:

> I would not know, but I'd suggest that any Government who thinks it is a
> safe haven for those trying to get away from persecution are either
> completely bonkers or deliberately doing it against human rights laws.

Oh, it's deliberate all right.

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 12/07/2023 00:57, Jeff Gaines wrote:
> On 11/07/2023 in message <u8kjot$319mv$1@dont-email.me> Michael Chare
> wrote:
>
>> By holding up the governments efforts to send immigrants to Rwanda are
>> the House of Lords cooking their own goose?
>
> They need reform and there are far too many of them.
>
> We should cut their numbers to 200 and appoint them on the basis of pure
> proportional representation so they represent the views of the whole
> nation.

And have the appointments made for a fixed term, but evenly spaced, say
for five years with one appointment every week (or 3 or 4 a month,
whatever). The initial startup will take some fiddling, but once
settled down, it removes the possibility of sudden swings. You don't
need another public vote, you can use the GE proportions.

--
Cheers
Clive

On 12/07/2023 in message
<20230712092146.5437c15e@jrenewsid.jretrading.com> Joe wrote:

>On 11 Jul 2023 23:57:26 GMT
>"Jeff Gaines" <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:
>
>>On 11/07/2023 in message <u8kjot$319mv$1@dont-email.me> Michael Chare
>>wrote:
>>
>>>By holding up the governments efforts to send immigrants to Rwanda
>>>are the House of Lords cooking their own goose?
>>
>>They need reform and there are far too many of them.
>>
>>We should cut their numbers to 200 and appoint them on the basis of
>>pure proportional representation so they represent the views of the
>>whole nation.
>>
>
>A second, revising layer of government will some of the time need to
>oppose the executive (as MPs are supposed to do), but a group elected
>on a party political basis will simply reflect the composition of the
>Commons, and will follow the party line.

If elected by pure PR they will reflect the voters, the first past the
post system doesn't necessarily reflect the proportion of votes each party
receives.

>
>The electorate has demonstrated over at least a century that it will
>only vote for political parties, not for individuals (unless they are
>'celebrities').

I think so too so pure PR with lists would fit in well.

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
I take full responsibility for what happened - that is why the person that
was responsible went immediately.
(Gordon Brown, April 2009)

Am 11/07/2023 um 22:06 schrieb Michael Chare:
> By holding up the governments efforts to send immigrants to Rwanda are
> the House of Lords cooking their own goose?
>

And this is why I voted for Brexit! Because I am fed up with
unelected... wait!

--
Ottavio Caruso

On 12 Jul 2023 at 10:28:58 BST, ""Jeff Gaines"" <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:

> On 12/07/2023 in message
> <20230712092146.5437c15e@jrenewsid.jretrading.com> Joe wrote:
>
>> On 11 Jul 2023 23:57:26 GMT
>> "Jeff Gaines" <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 11/07/2023 in message <u8kjot$319mv$1@dont-email.me> Michael Chare
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> By holding up the governments efforts to send immigrants to Rwanda
>>>> are the House of Lords cooking their own goose?
>>>
>>> They need reform and there are far too many of them.
>>>
>>> We should cut their numbers to 200 and appoint them on the basis of
>>> pure proportional representation so they represent the views of the
>>> whole nation.
>>>
>>
>> A second, revising layer of government will some of the time need to
>> oppose the executive (as MPs are supposed to do), but a group elected
>> on a party political basis will simply reflect the composition of the
>> Commons, and will follow the party line.
>
> If elected by pure PR they will reflect the voters, the first past the
> post system doesn't necessarily reflect the proportion of votes each party
> receives.
>
>>
>> The electorate has demonstrated over at least a century that it will
>> only vote for political parties, not for individuals (unless they are
>> 'celebrities').
>
> I think so too so pure PR with lists would fit in well.

PR with lists will simply open the "jobs for the party boys" door. That's the
last thing you want. See Israel for the worst example.

--
If socialism helps the poor, why are the poor in socialist countries so much poorer than the poor in capitalist countries?

Mark

In article <xn0o491gd8insvc00l@news.individual.net>,
Jeff Gaines <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:
> On 12/07/2023 in message
> <20230712092146.5437c15e@jrenewsid.jretrading.com> Joe wrote:

> >On 11 Jul 2023 23:57:26 GMT
> >"Jeff Gaines" <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:
> >
> >>On 11/07/2023 in message <u8kjot$319mv$1@dont-email.me> Michael Chare
> >>wrote:
> >>
> >>>By holding up the governments efforts to send immigrants to Rwanda
> >>>are the House of Lords cooking their own goose?
> >>
> >>They need reform and there are far too many of them.
> >>
> >>We should cut their numbers to 200 and appoint them on the basis of
> >>pure proportional representation so they represent the views of the
> >>whole nation.
> >>
> >
> >A second, revising layer of government will some of the time need to
> >oppose the executive (as MPs are supposed to do), but a group elected
> >on a party political basis will simply reflect the composition of the
> >Commons, and will follow the party line.

> If elected by pure PR they will reflect the voters, the first past the
> post system doesn't necessarily reflect the proportion of votes each
> party receives.

What you wouldn't get with any form of voting system are the non-party
lords - known as "Crossbench Peers".

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 12/07/2023 14:00, charles wrote:
> In article <xn0o491gd8insvc00l@news.individual.net>,
> Jeff Gaines <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:
>> On 12/07/2023 in message
>> <20230712092146.5437c15e@jrenewsid.jretrading.com> Joe wrote:
>
>>> On 11 Jul 2023 23:57:26 GMT
>>> "Jeff Gaines" <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 11/07/2023 in message <u8kjot$319mv$1@dont-email.me> Michael Chare
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> By holding up the governments efforts to send immigrants to Rwanda
>>>>> are the House of Lords cooking their own goose?
>>>>
>>>> They need reform and there are far too many of them.
>>>>
>>>> We should cut their numbers to 200 and appoint them on the basis of
>>>> pure proportional representation so they represent the views of the
>>>> whole nation.
>>>>
>>>
>>> A second, revising layer of government will some of the time need to
>>> oppose the executive (as MPs are supposed to do), but a group elected
>>> on a party political basis will simply reflect the composition of the
>>> Commons, and will follow the party line.
>
>> If elected by pure PR they will reflect the voters, the first past the
>> post system doesn't necessarily reflect the proportion of votes each
>> party receives.
>
> What you wouldn't get with any form of voting system are the non-party
> lords - known as "Crossbench Peers".

And those who did get elected would be those proposed by a party. Jobs
for the boys.

On 12/07/2023 10:28 am, Jeff Gaines wrote:
> On 12/07/2023 in message
> <20230712092146.5437c15e@jrenewsid.jretrading.com> Joe wrote:
>
>> On 11 Jul 2023 23:57:26 GMT
>> "Jeff Gaines" <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 11/07/2023 in message <u8kjot$319mv$1@dont-email.me> Michael Chare
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> By holding up the governments efforts to send immigrants to Rwanda
>>>> are the House of Lords cooking their own goose?
>>>
>>> They need reform and there are far too many of them.
>>>
>>> We should cut their numbers to 200 and appoint them on the basis of
>>> pure proportional representation so they represent the views of the
>>> whole nation.
>>>
>>
>> A second, revising layer of government will some of the time need to
>> oppose the executive (as MPs are supposed to do), but a group elected
>> on a party political basis will simply reflect the composition of the
>> Commons, and will follow the party line.
>
> If elected by pure PR they will reflect the voters, the first past the
> post system doesn't necessarily reflect the proportion of votes each
> party receives.

That depends upon factors you have not taken into account.

Even Conservative candidates, for instance, are sorted and selected by
Central Office in order to weed out most of those who are social and
economic conservatives. Candidates who are essentially Liberal (as would
have been defined in, say, 1920) do best in that process and are
allocated to the most winnable seats.

Liberals (with or without the capital initial) do not represent the
majority view.
>
>> The electorate has demonstrated over at least a century that it will
>> only vote for political parties, not for individuals (unless they are
>> 'celebrities').
>
> I think so too so pure PR with lists would fit in well.

On 12/07/2023 in message <kh7u7kF8dgU1@mid.individual.net> JNugent wrote:

>>If elected by pure PR they will reflect the voters, the first past the
>>post system doesn't necessarily reflect the proportion of votes each
>>party receives.
>
>That depends upon factors you have not taken into account.

Do you have a degree in arrogance or just a GCSE?

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
Tell me what you need, and I'll tell you how to get along without it.

On 12/07/2023 04:56 pm, Jeff Gaines wrote:

> On 12/07/2023 in message <kh7u7kF8dgU1@mid.individual.net> JNugent wrote:

>>> If elected by pure PR they will reflect the voters, the first past
>>> the post system doesn't necessarily reflect the proportion of votes
>>> each party receives.

>> That depends upon factors you have not taken into account.

> Do you have a degree in arrogance or just a GCSE?

Is that supposed to be a clever and witty response in default of having
anything worthwhile with which to answer the points I made (ad which you
have peevishly snipped)?

Michael Chare <mUNDERSCOREnews@charedotorg.uk> wrote

> By holding up the governments efforts to send immigrants to Rwanda are
> the House of Lords cooking their own goose?

Unlikely that the current govt would
pull the plug on the HoL right now.

Jeff Gaines <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote
> Michael Chare wrote

>> By holding up the governments efforts to send immigrants to Rwanda are
>> the House of Lords cooking their own goose?
>
> They need reform and there are far too many of them.
>
> We should cut their numbers to 200 and appoint them on the basis of pure
> proportional representation so they represent the views of the whole
> nation.

No point in only having lords involved.

On Wed, 12 Jul 2023 17:00:14 +1000, Ian Jackson
<ianREMOVETHISjackson@g3ohx.co.uk> wrote:

> In message <u8li8l$2f8s1$10@dont-email.me>, Jethro_uk
> <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> writes
>> On Tue, 11 Jul 2023 23:06:19 +0100, Michael Chare wrote:
>>
>>> By holding up the governments efforts to send immigrants to Rwanda are
>>> the House of Lords cooking their own goose?
>>
>> Was it a manifesto pledge ? If not, fair game for the Lords.
>
> It's one of Rishi's five promises / key targets.

But was never a manifesto pledge

Brian Gaff <brian1gaff@gmail.com> wrote

> I would not know, but I'd suggest that any Government who thinksit is a
> safe haven for those trying to get away from persecution

Thats not what the illegals are doing.

> are either
> completely bonkers or deliberately doing it against human rights laws.

There are no such human rights laws.

On Wed, 12 Jul 2023 18:21:46 +1000, Joe <joe@jretrading.com> wrote:

> On 11 Jul 2023 23:57:26 GMT
> "Jeff Gaines" <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:
>
>> On 11/07/2023 in message <u8kjot$319mv$1@dont-email.me> Michael Chare
>> wrote:
>>
>> >By holding up the governments efforts to send immigrants to Rwanda
>> >are the House of Lords cooking their own goose?
>>
>> They need reform and there are far too many of them.
>>
>> We should cut their numbers to 200 and appoint them on the basis of
>> pure proportional representation so they represent the views of the
>> whole nation.
>>
>
> A second, revising layer of government will some of the time need to
> oppose the executive (as MPs are supposed to do), but a group elected
> on a party political basis will simply reflect the composition of the
> Commons, and will follow the party line.

Fantasy. Most upper houses have a different electoral system
for the upper house.

> The electorate has demonstrated over at least a century that it will
> only vote for political parties, not for individuals (unless they are
> 'celebrities').

That last is wrong too.